I figured out that I was transgender and definitely more attracted to men when I was in my 20s, but I tried a traditional role, and almost managed it. After I got divorced 3 years ago I decided that I needed to at least try living as a gay man, to see whether it would fit me well enough.
It was ok for a while, I guess, and I had a couple of wonderful boyfriends who remain close friends, even though their ex-boyfriend is now an ex-girlfriend (poor things - how do they cope? :D )
But the thing that left me absolutely baffled was the general attitude to casual sex. "Forget about relationships; go out and have sex, lots of it" was the almost unanimous advice I got from my gay friends. So, rather reluctantly, I tried it. By the time I got to the doped-out hairdresser where the entire experience - from Grindr to finding myself back on the street - lasted a whole 20 minutes, I knew this was definitely not for me. Plus, I was gradually letting go of two decades of mental repression, and The Girl was starting to flex her eyelashes (is that even possible?)
Last night a dear gay couple, my oldest friends in Madrid, celebrated 13 years together. And after dinner at a place I recommended, they were going to return to their hotel suite where "Two boys" were waiting for them. And then they sent me the pictures. :o
Aaaaaargh! Not only was this a clear case of way too much information, but also made me see how far I've come, and how impossible it would have been for me to continue trying to be gay.
Phew!
Anyone out there with a similar experience??
xxx
J
Ha! Can't say that I have. My friends are a bit more discrete than that! :)
I definitely can identify with the whole "well maybe I'm just gay" scenario, and I can't even begin to describe how much worse that made the whole scenario for me when I was younger. It's true that I gained some sense of femininity from the experience, but OH MY GOD the gays I were around (not making stereotypes here) were so judgmental! I could not handle it at all. But now that I know I'm a woman, I've actually noticed guys coming on to me in bars and clubs and it's really interesting to me.
I hung about on the gay scene in the late 70s thinking I might be gay,it wasn't for me.I disliked it from the music to the casual sex and bitchiness.
He he... yes, when I lived in Johannesburg, the bitchy judgmental look-how-pretty-I-am scene was insufferable.
But here in Madrid I have a wonderful bunch of gay friends. Kind, intelligent normal guys whose only difference is that they dress a little better than average.
And they make an effort to include me - I guess I've become their "->-bleeped-<- hag" :D
You live in SA too? That's awesome! :). I had a phase where I wondered if I was just gay because I heard of transexuals who went through the whole process of transitioning only to realize that they are actually gay.
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on November 16, 2014, 03:30:23 AMPhew!
Anyone out there with a similar experience??
Phew indeed!
No similar experiences - thanks, in part, to the experimentation of others such as yourself and the results of your research: we can skip the intermediate maybe-I'm-just-gay step and go "straight" from being unhappy guys to being happy girls. ;)
My best friend in a school, who is gay kissed me a few years back.
I liked it so I went with it. Thought it might have been enough.
But I think it forced the trans issue even more. As I started going very effeminate and wearing girls skinnies. I always felt quite different to even the very fem gay guys.
Although I do love the gay scene. But I'm only a young baby queer still.
Don't have too many gay guys friends. And the ones I have are mostly drag queens. Lots of lesbian friends mainly though.
But it certainly helped me build up a network of good girlfriends, many of whom have been super helpful and understanding.
And also I can act super girly and people just think I'm super gay, not trans so I don't have to out myself fully.
Although I think it may be harder to come out to some people who know me. Cos they get a little confused with the whole girly gay, or a girl and all sorts.
And you're not a ->-bleeped-<- hag, we're fruit flies.
Or fairy dust.
And everyone knows gays would be useless without his girlfriends :P
Behind every good gay is an ever greater lady.
When I was trying to figure out who I am the thought that I might be gay entered my mind. I knew no gay people and I was married so I never experimented with living as a gay person/dating gay people.
Now I go to a church that consists predominately of gay people and I have a lot of gay friends and I love them all - but i'm not one of them :laugh:
Quote from: melanie maritz on November 16, 2014, 07:03:17 AM
You live in SA too? That's awesome! :). I had a phase where I wondered if I was just gay because I heard of transexuals who went through the whole process of transitioning only to realize that they are actually gay.
Hiya Melanie
I used to live in JHB, but now I'm in Madrid. Where are you living, girl?
I think it's a fair point you make, and that's why we really need our psychologists. But I remember when I was doing therapy in the 1990s in Johannesburg, my therapist actively lead me towards discussing gay issues rather than trans ones. I think she believed that it would be no fun being trans in the old South Africa, and I would largely agree with her!
Quote from: Ash on November 16, 2014, 08:28:13 AM
And you're not a ->-bleeped-<- hag, we're fruit flies.
Or fairy dust.
Could I be a fruit butterfly pleeeease! So much prettier! ;D
I know myself I do not fit into the recognized trans life where I live. You know, hard partying, lot of random sex, drugs, etc. I a just a simple woman trying to run a house, raise my son and wait for the one who truly deserves me mind and soul. Not fitting in with the crowd almost made me feel I could never be trans because I could not be like a majority of them here. I think I understand you totally girl. :)
My first endo visit went on for some time, because even with the letter from my therapist and six months of therapy, he wanted to be sure I was not gay. My doctor has been handling trans patients since 1975. And since then he's seen a huge decline in gay men trying out being trans to see if they can "get by" that way. And he actively discourages that as well. So we spent quite a bit of time discussing me, why I wanted to transition, etc. And in the end he wholeheartedly agreed with me and prescribed my HRT (and still does). But apparently gay men trying to be trans as a way to escape the social stigma of being "queer" back in the 1970s and 1980s was fairly common, and accounts for some of the cases of regret back then when regret rates were estimated at 5%-7%. (Current regret rates are estimated around 0.5%.)
I find myself with quite a few gay and questioning friends (as I tend to prefer men too, wow the flirting could kill) and I find the attitude a bit funny. If someone gets laid, he gets badgered for the details. If a friend thinks he might remotely like it, kissing must immediately happen. Gay couples also don't seem shy about inviting extras in. Are guys on the whole, just that much more casual about sex than women? :D
I am queer/bisexual and have many wonderful friends who are gay and have enough personal experiences with men to know myself. Therapists back in the 80's told me i was gay and fighting it but being trans just didn't seem to be on anyones radar then. I don't want to contribute to the stereotype of easy/casual gay hook ups and know plenty of people of all kinds that are sexually promiscuous. That said I too have friends that are only too happy to display their baskets to the users of Grindr or engage in door bell or restroom encounters. I'm not judging but it didn't work for me and too many guys found me too girly, nellie or shy for their taste. I don't like the term but could also be called a ->-bleeped-<- hag now. Sometimes our transitions contain a process of elimination?
I need love not sex. Sex is a frigid thing for me.
Quote from: Tessa James on November 16, 2014, 08:22:13 PM
I am queer/bisexual and have many wonderful friends who are gay and have enough personal experiences with men to know myself. Therapists back in the 80's told me i was gay and fighting it but being trans just didn't seem to be on anyones radar then. I don't want to contribute to the stereotype of easy/casual gay hook ups and know plenty of people of all kinds that are sexually promiscuous. That said I too have friends that are only too happy to display their baskets to the users of Grindr or engage in door bell or restroom encounters. I'm not judging but it didn't work for me and too many guys found me too girly, nellie or shy for their taste. I don't like the term but could also be called a ->-bleeped-<- hag now. Sometimes our transitions contain a process of elimination?
And, Tessa, I think this is probably true for some of us. It was definitely true for me. I was still a boy in January of this year, in a gay relationship with an exceptional man, and something clicked in my head and I said "I want this, but I want it as a woman."
It was part of a very slow evolution towards self-acceptance. From where I am now, I have the perspective to see this.
hahaha I'm sure there are plenty of gays who would have been put off by that situation, but i definitely agree. Soooo glad none of my friends would ever think that appropriate to send me pictures of that sort.
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on November 17, 2014, 04:25:57 PM
And, Tessa, I think this is probably true for some of us. It was definitely true for me. I was still a boy in January of this year, in a gay relationship with an exceptional man, and something clicked in my head and I said "I want this, but I want it as a woman."
It was part of a very slow evolution towards self-acceptance. From where I am now, I have the perspective to see this.
Yes, our hindsight is a bit closer to 20/20 vision eh? Loving and being loved by a man was wonderful for me. I was able to feel more of my shadow girl in a real sense no matter what I looked like on the outside. I do miss being seen and desired by men who are gay/queer and am a bit less secure about how straight guys see me now. Some of those looks are unnerving. Kind of academic tho as monogamy is currently our way as a married couple.
You know Julia. You do what you are comfrotable with. No more and don't be pressured. You are in charge of yourself and saying, "No thank you" is just as easy as saying, "Let's Go". Your comfort level and what you are comfortable with is the important thing.
No matter what I do and the lifestyle I live. Menage a' Tois is not my thing. I want intamcy and love for me and one other alone. Not to say if I fell for both and so on but one at a time please. Two is company and three is a crowd. Of course please me one at a time and then knock yourselves out together. I don't get jelous.
But seriously do what you are comfortable with and nothing else. There are other people in the world. And there are pople that will love you. Settle for nothing less. If it is two people that love you then so be it. As long as you are comfrotable with it. But being called a "->-bleeped-<- hag"? I think I would have demanded them to call me Miss "->-bleeped-<- Hag". ;)
Quote from: Tessa James on November 17, 2014, 04:42:18 PM
Yes, our hindsight is a bit closer to 20/20 vision eh? Loving and being loved by a man was wonderful for me. I was able to feel more of my shadow girl in a real sense no matter what I looked like on the outside. I do miss being seen and desired by men who are gay/queer and am a bit less secure about how straight guys see me now. Some of those looks are unnerving. Kind of academic tho as monogamy is currently our way as a married couple.
I had that kind of shadow girl feeling with my ex boyfriend. It was wonderful. But I kind of knew the whole time that as a gay relationship, it just wasn't working.
Although I'm a little worried about when I go full time. Cos my interest is leaning way more towards pretty gay guys than boring smelly straight boys :P And that is never going to end well. Both attraction physically and personality wise.
I just love the whole gay scene that I've been involved with. Even get to see my favourite Drag Queen Willam on Friday.
I'll end up being Princess ->-bleeped-<- Hag. Bit of a change from my current Alcoholic Aunty title.
Queen Bee, Fairy Godmother and Fairy Princess are some alternatives to the ->-bleeped-<- hag term.
I absolutely detest Fruit Fly though. I use it as an insult. It just sounds so ick.
Julia- I had a parallel experience. I was attracted to cross-dressing for years, and it was satisfying, but never quite "IT". I just thought that it was a fetish and tried to ignore it. I subsequently thought I might be bi or even gay. With blessings of a wonderful SO, I had a long time lover and was always thrilled with the intimacy, but when he passed, and I thought about others, I knew it just was not "the deal". It was amazing how much time and effort I spent AVOIDING the obvious answer. When I finally came to understand what being transgendered meant to me, I knew I was "home". I am interested to see how my preferences evolve or change after SRS.
Once upon a time and a time ago it was, a girl I loved, as gently as she could, sat me down and advised me that although I was sweet, I was not really a man. It broke my heart. I didn't know quite what to do or how to respond. A great deal of wine and some time later I decided that I must be gay. I loved working in the theater, found men interesting and attractive, it all seemed to fit and for a time it mostly did.
But I never got the bar/bath house scene. I wanted to be loved, to be held and cherished. In Seattle, in the late seventies I did not find that, and then people I cared about began to get sick. I ran, frightened, I ran.
Almost thirty years, a couple of careers, and a couple of marriages later I admitted the truth and began to seek a path to living the balance of my years gently and authenticity. I spent most of a lifetime running from pieces of the truth. I can no more identity with the polar ends of the sexuality spectrum, than I can with the gender spectrum. I live my life today as a loved and loving woman. But I am a creation of both my experience and my biology.
I was born a XY girl, I lived most of my life in the role of a man. I now live a more complete life in the guise of a transgender woman. But it is all still there. The sad and frightened child, the confused young man, the engineer who tried to find normalcy, and the transitioning optimistic woman. I have few regrets, many friends and most of all an authentic soul.
Peace,
Julie
Bisexual, polyamorous, that's about as far as I got. Once got called a "straight needle queen" by a gay friend gushing over a holiday gift I sewed for another friend. He didn't know I was bi a the time, but neither did I. Casual sex was NEVER my thing. I fall in love with people and never fall out. I still love my first girlfriend from over 40 years ago. Began realizing I was bi and had a good deal of feminine in me about 8 years ago when I had a relationship with a lesbian. She was trying to figure out why she was so attracted to a "man". Trans was nowhere on my radar until about a year ago and once I knew what it really meant I knew immediately, no doubts whatsoever. Prior to that I "knew" what most people "know", Crossdressing, that's trans, right? Of course it's not. The crossdressers I knew were mostly gay males with that completely male attitude I've always abhored, "sex is preferable to relationships." My cousin was like that and tried to hook up with me. Well, to be honest, when we were young, he did. Then he made me feel cheap and sleezy and I never gave him the time of day again. Funny, at one point when we were adults, he told me we were the only two normal people in the family, an unaware transwoman and a gay, aids positive, heroin shooting businessman. Funny thing is, he was right. My family is uber-strange. He passed away a few years later. How he would laugh now, except he would have been literally the last person I would have told, because he was a horrible gossip and would have given me away long before I was prepared to out myself.
Julie and Dee, thank you for your remarkable stories, truly!
I can't add anything other than my gratitude.
Julia
I came out of the closet when I was like twenty two or so and dated guys and went out to gay clubs and what not for like six years and then went back in the closet when my last boyfriend cheated on me. I have been cross dressing ever since I was thirteen but recently realized that I am transgender within the last year and that it's not a phase and that this is who and what I am. I have been sexual with a couple females in my lifetime but I prefer the company of men sexually over females. I do adore females for there bodies and wishing I had a body like a woman.
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on November 16, 2014, 03:30:23 AM
The Girl was starting to flex her eyelashes (is that even possible?)
Haha, yes I thinks it possible Julia. Hell, everything else I use to flex is rapidly disappearing so I'm hoping it's possible!
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on November 16, 2014, 03:30:23 AM
Phew!
Anyone out there with a similar experience??
Well yes, a similar experience, but slightly different context. I never saw myself as a gay man, even though I had periods of my life where I would be with guys in a sexual encounter. Gee, I put that in such a 'nice' way. But seriously it was something very different. It was a time in my life where I had resided to the fact that I was some sort of gay bottom cross dresser who could only play the girl. And gee did it get creepy at times. It was a crazy time in fact, the tumblr experience you speak of Julia is reminiscent of some of these meets. Often drugs would be involved, it was horrible, horrible stuff.
And so now I am clear on who I am, and what I want in life (by the way, what I describe above is not it), I find myself having to be very clear with people, when they try to contact me on facebook. And even a trans girl the other day, said
Girl: 'wanna see a photo of me',
Me 'umm, yeah, I suppose"
Girl: 'is it ok if it's a naked photo'
Me: 'no, umm, why?'
So I needed to be explicitly clear that I was only looking for friends, not some Facebook Internet sex buddy. Eeek!
So yes, now I just want the nice white picket fence, a dog, and a happy partner. I don't think I can get that on Tumblr though :D
Oh and just to add, having been in a long term relationship with a female, having four children and countless other girlfriends, I'm certainly clear now that I'm not attracted to men. Gee, I was one confused little bunny back then, but part of the journey I suppose.
I was actually out in favourite gay hangout last night with a few of the girlfriends. Willam was performing, our favourite Drag Queen.
But sometimes the kind of leeriness and over forwardness of some of the guys is a bit much.
And some of them I tell I'm trans, as in go away, I'm not sleeping with you yet they don't seem to get it.
Sometimes it's a little tough to go out in the gay scene and just relax or chill.
But we love the regular Queens and they take care of me :-*
Also I got to meet Willam.
She grabbed my butt and my crotch, called me pretty and was like woah cos of some of piercings. All playfully.
She was actually so nice to my friends and I.
And she told me to pierce my taint. I might have to now :'(
I was sooooooooooooooooooooooooo happy. Best night ever.
Quote from: JulieBlair on November 21, 2014, 04:00:16 AM
Once upon a time and a time ago it was, a girl I loved, as gently as she could, sat me down and advised me that although I was sweet, I was not really a man. It broke my heart. I didn't know quite what to do or how to respond. A great deal of wine and some time later I decided that I must be gay. I loved working in the theater, found men interesting and attractive, it all seemed to fit and for a time it mostly did.
But I never got the bar/bath house scene. I wanted to be loved, to be held and cherished. In Seattle, in the late seventies I did not find that, and then people I cared about began to get sick. I ran, frightened, I ran.
Almost thirty years, a couple of careers, and a couple of marriages later I admitted the truth and began to seek a path to living the balance of my years gently and authenticity. I spent most of a lifetime running from pieces of the truth. I can no more identity with the polar ends of the sexuality spectrum, than I can with the gender spectrum. I live my life today as a loved and loving woman. But I am a creation of both my experience and my biology.
I was born a XY girl, I lived most of my life in the role of a man. I now live a more complete life in the guise of a transgender woman. But it is all still there. The sad and frightened child, the confused young man, the engineer who tried to find normalcy, and the transitioning optimistic woman. I have few regrets, many friends and most of all an authentic soul.
Peace,
Julie
Beautifully done, Julie. I have had similar experience. I thought that the crossdressing was it, then the gay thing, then both, then.....it finally came into focus. I am so happy that you have come to a place of peace. I am on my way. Blessings, Sheila
In my search I kissed with a few guys, but got repulsed by the idea that they liked me because I was still a guy. Sometimes this gender dysphoria can be such a complete mind->-bleeped-<- when you are unsure what or who you are. Took me quite some time to figure it all out.
never really thought I was gay but this reminds me of a gay guy I met,
It's a totally of topic story, so feel free to skip it
I was living in a hotel for about 2 to 3 months n I had hooked up with this supposedly gay guy he was about 35 years old n he was there to meet some other guy he met online, but I met him at the front of my door while I was having a cigarette in girl mode, his room was just next door, I said Hi n asked how long he was staying, he told me just for the night and asked me the same, I explained I was temporarily living there, the small talk did'nt go on for long before he asked me in I said ok why not, I didn't bother sitting on a chair, I just went in n sat on the bed n before I new it he was groping my breasts n asking me if I have ever been with a man before, I told him only 3 (total fib more like 5) then I told him I'm transsexual, mmm he moans n reached down my pants, n well later he became my F***buddie but some time after he broke it off because I was getting to girly for him but it was a fun experience.
I should have known it would happen he's gay n I'm not a boy but o well it wasn't serious