This is something that I'm just trying to unpack better and have been having a lot of trouble with that. Expect messy, choppy, out of order mind thoughts.
Right, that being said, I really don't know where to start? I mean I don't really know where the beginning is, so? I guess my problem is coming from existing as a feminine trans guy. I feel most comfortable presenting myself as feminine. Because of this, I am experiencing heightened dysphoria. The way that I present myself causes me to be misgendered and I am constantly uncomfortable/aware of my body in public. I am not interested in figuring out better ways to pass in public, and it hurts me that I feel as though I won't be able to pass as a guy. I recently went to this group called "New Boyz Club," or something like that. It's a support group. I was offered a place to just talk about whatever, but my share lasted for a good 30 seconds. I felt so out of place and it triggered a lot of anxiety for me, I don't know how to "fit in" in my own community. I didn't know what to talk about and I don't understand how everyone else had such an easy time speaking about their experiences. I think that this comes from a lot of different angles: I have always experienced social anxiety. I felt super pressured because I felt out of place in their space.
You know, I am aware that my struggles with that group/this whole thing are probably coming from the anxiety itself, and trying to please some unspoken/nonexistent standards of what a transguy should look like and be like. I get that there isn't one way gender should look or be or feel like. And I don't want to be read as trying to figure out where I am on this crazy spectrum. I am definitely confident in what I identify as. Overall, I just feel stuck and I hurt and I feel shoved around by this whole binaric gender system.
What I'm looking for are any shared experiences by other femme trans guys or advice from anyone on how I can continue to process this? I apologize if my thoughts are unclear or something, this is not a thing that I really know how to talk about and I guess I'm feeling anxious about being misunderstood.
Hi Devu,
No advice to offer. But the speech thing, I can usually speak in public, but only when I'm not talking about me. Turn the focus on me, and the words don't come. So you are not alone in not being able to do more than a 30 second spiel.
On being a femme guy, I've got one straight friend and one gay friend who are very femme. That's just how they are wired. They are both great friends, always ready to listen or laugh (or babysit my dog!!). I value them for who they are, all parts of who they are. I think it helps both of them that neither of them are shy and they both know their own selfworth. Not much help for you there, since you've got some social anxiety.
While I've got some femme traits from a lifetime of trying to fit in as a girl, I don't think I'm uber femme. But I don't look like a guy, not yet. We'll see what the future holds. I'm working out like crazy, though, trying to get those deltoids out there and those hips in. Working on getting a more masculine-bodied profile. Maybe, that would help? Even the most femme guys have that masculine-bodied profile. (Okay, one of the greatest compliments I got recently, although it wasn't delivered as a compliment :-\ ) was that I look like a guy from a distance. Progress!
Anyway, my thoughts along with my total empathy on this!
Chris
Quote from: FriendsCallMeChris on November 25, 2014, 10:57:35 AM
Hi Devu,
No advice to offer. But the speech thing, I can usually speak in public, but only when I'm not talking about me. Turn the focus on me, and the words don't come. So you are not alone in not being able to do more than a 30 second spiel.
On being a femme guy, I've got one straight friend and one gay friend who are very femme. That's just how they are wired. They are both great friends, always ready to listen or laugh (or babysit my dog!!). I value them for who they are, all parts of who they are. I think it helps both of them that neither of them are shy and they both know their own selfworth. Not much help for you there, since you've got some social anxiety.
While I've got some femme traits from a lifetime of trying to fit in as a girl, I don't think I'm uber femme. But I don't look like a guy, not yet. We'll see what the future holds. I'm working out like crazy, though, trying to get those deltoids out there and those hips in. Working on getting a more masculine-bodied profile. Maybe, that would help? Even the most femme guys have that masculine-bodied profile. (Okay, one of the greatest compliments I got recently, although it wasn't delivered as a compliment :-\ ) was that I look like a guy from a distance. Progress!
Anyway, my thoughts along with my total empathy on this!
Chris
I really appreciate your feedback. The struggle I have with talking about myself is real, I feel you. So I think something that I need to work on is learning how to navigate in a more confident way throughout my day to day life. I don't think it's something that I can't overcome, but I am definitely naturally reserved and shy.
Anyway, good luck with your deltoids, I'm sure they look/will look frickin' killer. Working out is definitely something I've been considering to shift the way my body looks.
Take care. :D
When speaking at a new gender variant or T group keep in mind that you arent going to feel comfortable the first time you go in. A few people will but most will be really nervous and dont want to talk. Same with my first time I hardly talked at all let alone contribute but after a few times going i was completely comfortable and fine. Same with a new T guy that came in about a month ago, he was really shy to even say his name or what pronouns he preferred...two weeks later hes stabbing me with a pen because I messed up some papers to make his ocd go wild :P...Its all about getting used to the environment your in. Go a few more times even if you aren't comfortable it gets easier each time.
If you like dressing femm and haven't been on T long or aren't very "passable" then a fact you have to accept is that you might get misgendered. But you have to make the temporary choice for right now would you rather dress how you feel or not get misgendered as much...you can try both and see which you like better but of course over time T is gonna change that and wearing femm clothes or not most likely wont get you misgendered.
I still like wearing fit chinos and flowerly shirts because thats what im comfortable in i get misgenderd about 60% of the time but i'm okay with it cuz i look hecka sexy in mah clothes ~.`
Good luck and i encourage you to dress how you feel, really recommend to keep going to the T group.
Lots of love :3
Work on musculature, work on voice. I'll be damned if I ever cut my hair, I'm a long haired hippy, lol. If I get m'am now, it's because they only see me from the back, or I haven't opened my mouth. Then they apologize. When your voice drops and your muscles grow, you'll be surprised.
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I'm not femme so I cannot offer brilliant advice about that, but as to talking to others about your feelings or experiences, give it time. When I've gone to support groups, it has taken me SEVERAL visits and usually seeing some of the people outside meetings too before I am really willing to open up about myself. Support groups are like that but also even friends, it takes me a longer time to open up to friends than for them to open up to me, partly because I'm not talkative, but partly because I need to build the trust first.
Devu,
I'm sorry you're having a hard time. You shouldn't feel a need to change your presentation. I feel like if I got on t and would start passing (or at least be read more ambiguously), I'd probably lean towards a more femme presentation. But in a way I'm censoring this now because I want people to get that I'M A GUY!
As for the social anxiety, let me just encourage you to continue working on it -- it sucks, but this is something that can be dealt with! For me cbt worked, but I'm sure there are other forms of therapy that can help. I suffered from really bad anxiety when I was in my late teens (I think that bullying and suppressing my trans-identity played a role, but I have always been shy, even as a kid). I wasn't able to speak "publicly", ask a stranger for the way, call anywhere for information and so on. I'm now in a job that requires me to run workshops and do lectures. I'm still nervous, but that passes super quickly and I actually enjoy the teaching experience. Say whaaaa?
As a non binary male myself I don't care about passing as male, all that mattered to me was getting my ID (and other documents in the future) to say male and I achieved one part. You know you're male and that's all it should matter in my opinion.
Quote from: Devu on November 25, 2014, 10:37:21 AM
What I'm looking for are any shared experiences by other femme trans guys or advice from anyone on how I can continue to process this? I apologize if my thoughts are unclear or something, this is not a thing that I really know how to talk about and I guess I'm feeling anxious about being misunderstood.
I celebrated being legally recognized as male by going to the store and buying a handful of new glittery nail polishes. While at the store I was called Miss and young lady. Knowing my official documents all say I am a guy seems to have made that hurt a lot less.
I got called ->-bleeped-<-got a week or so ago, and my appearance was no different than the day I went to court and bought my new nail polish.
So to some people I appear male, while to others I don't. I would guess a whole lot of people are just plain confused and can't tell and are too embarrassed to ask. In any case, it isn't really anything about me that changes, people just have different perceptions of me.
I would like it if people stopped mis gendering me, but if the only alternative is to cut my hair and get rid of my shiny accessories and do all the other changes that would be required to look like a "real man", it just isn't worth it to me. I can deal with mis gendering much better than I can deal with destroying core aspects of my personality.
It sounds like you're focusing too much what other people think especially the people in our own community which is completely normal for a human being. We all judge others and are judged by others no matter how much we say otherwise. It's just a natural thing man. Although I think trans guys and trans girls tend to be more observant and even more judgmental in a way because we feel pressure to fit in society's roles as to what each gender is supposed to think like, act like, and look like. You don't though, and I think that's great. Screw traditional roles man. Don't let them stop you from expressing yourself. You stand out from the crowd in a good way, and I think that's exactly what you should embrace in the support group. Why not share the thoughts that you shared with us to the other guys in the group? Especially this part.. "And I don't want to be read as trying to figure out where I am on this crazy spectrum. I am definitely confident in what I identify as." Clarify yourself confidently.