So I was talking to this guy with which things looked promising. We were talking about marriage etc. Well I don't think I can tell him I'm transgender, so I'm just going to "disappear". I know he deserves an explanation, but I just can't! I like him too much. All I can do is pray he heals.
what are you going to do in the future then? He most likely would of still loved you. If he's a man, anyways.
Don't run.
He deserves better than to forever wonder what happened. If you tell him, and he leaves...well ok then, you're in the same position as if you'd left without telling him. No big loss, yes?
But...if he stays...you may have a good thing going on.
Don't do that Jaz.
If you leave him, the man you love, and become invisible, all you're doing is proving to yourself that you're not as good as a cis woman, that you don't deserve to have a fiance or a husband. You do!!! And you're worth it :)
...
Just because you're different doesn't mean you're any less worthy of love, or that you're lesser than anyone else. Tell him your history, and if he cant be with you any more for whatever reason know it's not your fault, that you are equal to a cis woman and whatever happens is on him.
It's not your fault you were born this way Jaz. Don't be ashamed of your own existence
Hugs
Xoxoxi
Quote from: Jaz650 on November 25, 2014, 05:35:56 PM
So I was talking to this guy with which things looked promising. We were talking about marriage etc. Well I don't think I can tell him I'm transgender, so I'm just going to "disappear". I know he deserves an explanation, but I just can't! I like him too much. All I can do is pray he heals.
Sorry why?
Tell him he leaves.
You disappearing.
Both the same.
What if he does not leave?
What you have to loose?
Just me!
First you need to be argued with to finally believe that it is better to tell someone, and now this is your solution? So you will keep running, avoiding everything and stay single from now on? You cannot keep avoiding your problems. Do not tell yourself you are helping him with it either.
You like him too much so you break his heart with no answer ever giving. Pat on the back, great job. Call me a bitch for being so blunt but at least I do say what is up.
OK, first of all, I'm glad this thread is not about self-penectomy!
In all seriousness, you like him a lot, and if he likes you back, there is a chance he won't even care if you're transgender. Do you think he deserves a chance? He could be Mr. Right, and I would not want to risk throwing him away over a presumed prejudice. What do you have to lose if you were just going to drop him anyway?
He's Catholic, he'll believe it's a sin to be with me.
Quote from: Jaz650 on November 25, 2014, 07:45:53 PM
He's Catholic, he'll believe it's a sin to be with me.
you could quote him your own tag line...
"You must be true to yourself, in order to be true to God! - Jaz"
Love,
Jade
:-*
So are my parents :p
And nearly everyone I went to school with(catholic 'all boy's school) and I'd estimate about 60-75% would have been reasonably cool with it in a relationship :)
Quote from: mrs izzy on November 25, 2014, 07:12:59 PM
Sorry why?
Tell him he leaves.
You disappearing.
Both the same.
What if he does not leave?
What you have to loose?
Just me!
if I disappear, at least he will remember as the girl he liked.
As hard as I am on guys (I can be a real bitch) even I wouldn't just cut him off.
You owe him at least a made up reason, without one it could break his heart, play on his mind whenever he dates someone else or start treating women as sweet nothings.
Quote from: Jo-is-amazing on November 25, 2014, 07:52:04 PM
So are my parents :p
And nearly everyone I went to school with(catholic 'all boy's school) and I'd estimate about 60-75% would have been reasonably cool with it in a relationship :)
I don't know what to do!! I thought I had it all figured out.. My priest supported me. I was supposed to forget my past, and be the best Catholic WOMAN I could be. But now this... I'm supposed to love my neighbor as myself, and honestly if I was him, I'd be hurt if a girl lied about not being transgender. He's so cute and smart, it would be wrong to lie and rob him from the chance of having children. How,am I supposed to act? What's morally right and wrong? I've come to the conclusion that I just need to let guys know at the beginning. I hope he lives a happy life, he deserves one.
Just tell him Sweetie :)
Ignore the bad things that might happen and think of how wonderful it would be to have him embrace you for all that you are. Imagine if he doesn't care how amazing life would be if you shared it with someone who knows all the challenges you've overcome and loves you regardless
Wouldn't that be fantastic?
Isn't that worth the risk?
The right thing to do, the catholic thing to do, would be to tell him honestly about your history. Be honest about how terrified you are about him leaving you. Expose your soul to him that is the right thing to do.
...
You are Not robbing him of children :)
He can still adopt or even have children by surrogate if his faith permits him. It is right that he should know :)
Sorry to jump on the bandwagon like this but if you tell him then the worst is the same as if you left him high and dry. You have nothing to loose and possibly a life time with him to gain.
That is an incredibly difficult situation and one I can relate to. A few years ago, I really hit it off with a guy online. He happened to be a good friend of my best friend, who he was in love with at the time. I kept my friendship with him strictly online (including voice) and we became pretty close. I was reluctant to move forward and see him, and this really, deeply frustrated him. I thought about cutting off all contact as I couldn't bring myself to tell him. Eventually, I had my best friend deliver the message. His response: "I understand, but unfortunately, I'm not interested in men." -- she gave him a very hard time over that.
We continued our friendship and he quickly understood that I was a woman, but the interest never really came back. He considered the prospect off and on, but it was too difficult for him to get over. In the end, I'm glad, because I realized he wasn't for me even outside of that issue.
It did teach me to be honest about my constitution the moment I start developing feelings. However, if I were to do it again, I would still avoid cutting him off altogether: because I had feelings for him, I gave up a bit of my humanity in his eyes in order to give him peace of mind. It was incredibly difficult to do and I came very close to simply disappearing from his life, as I had been working toward vanishing for over a month. I think few other things would have made sense to him, as we were getting along extremely well.
If I had had sex with a guy before telling him, if I thought he might be violent, if I thought he might try to ruin my reputation or relationships, I would likely resort to the disappearing act. If I'm sure that his reaction will only be deciding not to be with me, though? It'd be hard, but I'd share. It would be too much guilt for me not to give a benign human being peace of mind.
As an additional note, I am currently with a man who I consider to be impossibly fantastic. I told him early, but I was terrified that he would reject me. He is easily the best prospective partner I have ever met and I was certain that he would turn me away upon finding out, but he didn't. In general, I've found that the best men have a high tendency to get over it.
Look at it this way.
What would you think if he just up and left?
You'll break down, you'll be worried that it was you that did something wrong, you'll start to hate yourself, men, you'll feel used, you'll feel useless, you'll start to look down on love and all it has to offer.
What I would do is 1 of 2 things.
Tell him face to face, if you're worried that he'll take it bad, take a trusted loved one and you'll be ok.
Do it over text, I know it seems bad and if a guy ever broke up with me over text I'll hunt him down and cut off his balls, but explain it to him, so write it down, read and re-read, explain everything, explain that you are not a man, explain it was a birth thing, explain that you understand if he wants nothing to do with you, but also explain that religion is a poor reason to hate someone.
Give him time, give him space, don't send the message when you know he'll be busy or around friends.
Also, don't do it just after he left your place after spending an hour making out.
Be smart on how to play this and you'll be ok.
Thanks, I'm going to do #2. I'm scared of losing him.
Quote from: Jaz650 on November 25, 2014, 07:45:53 PM
He's Catholic, he'll believe it's a sin to be with me.
Even if he does...give him the opportunity to deny you.
People have changed religions before, given a strong enough love
and trust.
Yay!!!
You can do it :)
Best of luck Jaz
>--(^_^)--< <3
Quote from: Beth Andrea on November 25, 2014, 06:08:15 PM
But...if he stays...you may have a good thing going on.
Bingo!
With my BF I had just started HRT, so I looked the same as ever, and his whole thingy/reason for approaching me was caused he thought I looked pleasant and couldn't tell if I was a boy or a girl, but thought I was a girl. He said he wouldn't have been able to sleep if he didn't find out. We talked, hung out, I stayed over his apartment (On the couch, as we stayed up all night chatting and laughing. We clicked very, very well). And now, 18 months later, we'll still together. I told him that night (I'm trans, even though I'm intersex. I appropriate the trans label cause it's easier and I'm intersex, but it doesn't matter).
We didn't hook up for six months, though we shared the same bed when we moved in together within three months of meeting, and usually I would be stand off-ish but it was the day after my B-Day, I had a lot of money, I was high, just sold my weight set, and had a new iPad). We met in prolly one of the worst areas in N. America: The Somerset Bridge in Kensington, Philadelphia.
So, I never thought he'd call, check my posts from June 5-10, 2013 and you'll see. My point is, is that Beth is right: you have everything to gain and nothing to lose, except some face. it sucks being trans but sometimes ya gotta bite the bullet. If you're post-op though, then...if you can keep that secret, I wouldn't call you a liar. You have the right to privacy and some secrets, especially a medical one. You are a woman after all. What is a a woman if not a being filled with secrets. Or is that just empty deoadarant sticks jk lol Don't just give up. For yourself. You deserve happiness. There are so many times I wanted to give up and no matter what happens I know that we love each other, that we loved each other and so if I just walked away because I didn't want to divulge...that would be the worst torture. What could have been
Quote from: Jaz650 on November 25, 2014, 09:27:12 PM
Thanks, I'm going to do #2. I'm scared of losing him.
Glad to hear you've changed your mind. I've had someone disappear on me out of the blue, and it has made it really hard to trust people.
I know your situation is difficult and I can totally relate. While I was never in a situation to tell somebody I'm trans (yet), I have things in the closet, too. Telling someone your best kept secrets is a big sign of trust and might deepen your love for each other even more.
Sure... there's the possibility of everything going bad. But afterwards you'd know at least. Running away will make you wonder forever if there might have been a chance for you two.
That said, you've nothing to loose. Just throw in all your love and trust and everything will end well. And looking at your avatar I'd say dumping you were the bigger sin...
Quote from: Jaz650 on November 25, 2014, 07:45:53 PM
He's Catholic, he'll believe it's a sin to be with me.
Can you cite church doctrine that says this? I was told that the Church is largely silent on transgender individuals.
I am probably the worst example, but I have been divorced (marriage annulled by the church) and trans (haven't figured out that one yet). I still go to church and I'm even a lector in the church. I will probably have to stop being a lector but that doesn't stop me from being Catholic.
The church is largely silent but will not recognize a gender change. It has stated that gender is what exists between your legs at birth and that it cannot be changed by surgery or hormones.
So, by church standards a mtf and a male would be homosexual and not permitted to wed.
Here is a link with the Catholic Church's position as far as it has been made public.
http://ncronline.org/news/vatican-says-sex-change-operation-does-not-change-persons-gender
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Deborah on November 26, 2014, 10:13:09 AM
The church is largely silent but will not recognize a gender change. It has stated that gender is what exists between your legs at birth and that it cannot be changed by surgery or hormones.
So, by church standards a mtf and a male would be homosexual and not permitted to wed.
Here is a link with the Catholic Church's position as far as it has been made public.
http://ncronline.org/news/vatican-says-sex-change-operation-does-not-change-persons-gender
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
First of all, some seem to think this is an unfounded rumor.
https://catholictrans.wordpress.com/2013/12/07/what-does-the-catholic-church-actually-say-about-->-bleeped-<-/#Document
Secondly this document also flies in the face of a lot of things from Vatican II.
For example, the church recognizes baptism from all Christian churches. I was baptized in the Presbyterian Church but I received my Catholic sacraments and I am catholic. Theoretically I can get them to change my gender on my baptismal record. Will they recognize that as valid?
They also left the door open:
"-- An analysis of the moral licitness of "sex-change" operations. It
concludes that the procedure could be morally acceptable in certain
extreme cases if a medical probability exists that it will "cure" the
patient's internal turmoil."
So they are saying it is morally acceptable in certain extreme cases. I guess if the choice is transition or suicide, would that qualify?
They are saying the surgery may be licit but that it does not change your gender so marriage and holy orders would not be allowed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: ImagineKate on November 26, 2014, 11:18:23 AM
First of all, some seem to think this is an unfounded rumor.
https://catholictrans.wordpress.com/2013/12/07/what-does-the-catholic-church-actually-say-about-->-bleeped-<-/#Document
Secondly this document also flies in the face of a lot of things from Vatican II.
For example, the church recognizes baptism from all Christian churches. I was baptized in the Presbyterian Church but I received my Catholic sacraments and I am catholic. Theoretically I can get them to change my gender on my baptismal record. Will they recognize that as valid?
They also left the door open:
"-- An analysis of the moral licitness of "sex-change" operations. It
concludes that the procedure could be morally acceptable in certain
extreme cases if a medical probability exists that it will "cure" the
patient's internal turmoil."
So they are saying it is morally acceptable in certain extreme cases. I guess if the choice is transition or suicide, would that qualify?
Basically many clergy in the Church believe you will always be the sex you were born. This means that if you marry a man, you are in a same sex marriage, which if you're sexually active, you are committing a grave sin. However, it is true that there is no official teaching, and there is a teaching in the Catechism of Conscience. The other day my priest basically told me I can't marry a guy, so I puzzled him with the question what if I marry a guy that was born a girl? Lol
OK, not Catholic here, but studied religion extensively in college. My question:
If you were born intersex, whom can you marry if you are Roman Catholic?
Quote from: Jaz650 on November 26, 2014, 02:36:21 PM
Basically many clergy in the Church believe you will always be the sex you were born. This means that if you marry a man, you are in a same sex marriage, which if you're sexually active, you are committing a grave sin. However, it is true that there is no official teaching, and there is a teaching in the Catechism of Conscience. The other day my priest basically told me I can't marry a guy, so I puzzled him with the question what if I marry a guy that was born a girl? Lol
Absolutely. And I will tell you that a lot of priests and religious have opinions but the only law that matters is what comes out of the Vatican.
I have hope that God will enlighten Pope Francis and fully welcome transgender into the church.
Remember the Church persecuted people for science, I believe Galileo was persecuted and I think they've since apologized. I have had priests and monks and nuns tell me that they believe in evolution and that the world was not literally created in 7 days, and not to take Genesis literally.
So my sister I would take some comfort in the fact that the Church can and does come around sooner or later. Just pray on it and don't give up on your dreams.
Quote from: Jill F on November 26, 2014, 02:49:32 PM
OK, not Catholic here, but studied religion extensively in college. My question:
If you were born intersex, whom can you marry if you are Roman Catholic?
They would probably tell you to stay celibate because you can't conceive.
Quote from: Jill F on November 26, 2014, 02:49:32 PM
OK, not Catholic here, but studied religion extensively in college. My question:
If you were born intersex, whom can you marry if you are Roman Catholic?
Intersex is considered a different category and so each case would be considered individually. But there is nothing that categorically denies Intersex people the right to marry.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I just told him...
Quote from: ImagineKate on November 26, 2014, 03:00:52 PM
Absolutely. And I will tell you that a lot of priests and religious have opinions but the only law that matters is what comes out of the Vatican.
I have hope that God will enlighten Pope Francis and fully welcome transgender into the church.
Remember the Church persecuted people for science, I believe Galileo was persecuted and I think they've since apologized. I have had priests and monks and nuns tell me that they believe in evolution and that the world was not literally created in 7 days, and not to take Genesis literally.
So my sister I would take some comfort in the fact that the Church can and does come around sooner or later. Just pray on it and don't give up on your dreams.
The Church is divided on many issues. The best we can do is pray, receive Absolution frequently, receive Communion, and ask Jesus to guide us through our Conscience. We're called to follow two Commandments Love God, and love our neighbor as ourselves.
Quote from: Jaz650 on November 26, 2014, 03:59:14 PM
I just told him...
Hopefully he takes it well. You will be in my prayers.
Quote from: Deborah on November 26, 2014, 03:31:28 PM
Intersex is considered a different category and so each case would be considered individually. But there is nothing that categorically denies Intersex people the right to marry.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So what about de la chappele's syndrome? Also known as XX males.
Who determines the sex at birth and on what criteria?
I don't know how the judge each case anything I might say would be speculation.
My guess is that they will just play external genitals. If those were ambiguous, they would probably go with what the person feels.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Jaz650 on November 25, 2014, 07:59:55 PM
I don't know what to do!! I thought I had it all figured out.. My priest supported me. I was supposed to forget my past, and be the best Catholic WOMAN I could be. But now this... I'm supposed to love my neighbor as myself, and honestly if I was him, I'd be hurt if a girl lied about not being transgender. He's so cute and smart, it would be wrong to lie and rob him from the chance of having children. How,am I supposed to act? What's morally right and wrong? I've come to the conclusion that I just need to let guys know at the beginning. I hope he lives a happy life, he deserves one.
You'll have children still sweetie... there's plenty of children that need good parents that they currently don't have and waiting to be adopted. My fiance' told his parents that I just am unable to have children :)
I so need to know what happens here. I will send out positive thoughts into the etherverse with one young man in their sights. I really hope he sees sense and realises who you really are. Your willingness to sacrifice makes you truly religious which is not that common in my experience.
The Catholic Church has had many divisions. Is this because of god or because of man? And I don't mean 'mankind'.
Only you can know the truth at the heart of your belief and this is the whole concept of 'faith'. The faith has to be in the truth, not the way it's been interpreted. If you were a scientist, like Gallileo, hundreds of years ago you would have been persecuted by a pope. Was god wrong then or were the men who interpreted him? Now the church endorses and supports evolution, the Big Bang theory...
Has god changed his mind? I doubt it. I will declare myself as agnostic but I can't see how god was wrong so often in the past. Rather, it was men choosing their interpretations to fit what they wanted. And trans*?? You are a woman. A beautiful one if somebody loves you.
Really hope he knows what he has and realises that god is love. Certainly any god that I'd give any credibility to.
Xxxx
Quote from: Deborah on November 26, 2014, 04:22:53 PM
I don't know how the judge each case anything I might say would be speculation.
My guess is that they will just play external genitals. If those were ambiguous, they would probably go with what the person feels.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
See that's what I mean.
Best of luck on your outcome. My SO is Catholic, she even has a Catholic job, it's just not been an issue. It depends on the individual and region. We may get married at some point, but as a non catholic wedding( I'm atheist, they won't exactly condone that.) We'll find out how a same sex wedding shakes out then.
Like I said, religion is not a reason to hate, it's also not a reason to break up with someone and I believe it's used far too often as an excuse to bring others down.
Quote from: ImagineKate on November 26, 2014, 05:17:54 PM
See that's what I mean.
yes, but this does nothing for the vast majority of us.
The church correctly identifies Intersex as a deviation from the normal human form. It incorrectly identifies transsexuality as a mental delusion.
When science, medicine, and psychiatry can definitively demonstrate and agree that gender dysphoria is a physical Intersex condition in the brain then the Church probably will say something public and change their position.
Until then the Church will likely remain largely silent on an issue that is not mentioned in the Bible and on which science and medicine do not yet agree.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think it's just a matter of time before they fully recognize us. I am hopeful especially that Pope Francis is talking about inclusion and getting back to what the church is really about. Pope Benedict did a lot of damage and I was saddened that he took the church in a more fundamentalist direction.
Quote from: Jaz650 on November 25, 2014, 07:45:53 PM
He's Catholic, he'll believe it's a sin to be with me.
This is why I don't understand how people can be Christian/Muslim/Catholic/etc and LGBT, when everything in their holy books damns homosexuality or anything that isn't missionary with the sole purpose of procreation. I know there are churches that accept LGBT people, but they just rationalize away all the horrible stuff and it comes off as disingenuous at best.
If someone allows their religion to interfere with their relationships with people they love, THAT is the true sin.
Quote from: Hideyoshi on November 26, 2014, 09:08:48 PM
This is why I don't understand how people can be Christian/Muslim/Catholic/etc and LGBT, when everything in their holy books damns homosexuality or anything that isn't missionary with the sole purpose of procreation. I know there are churches that accept LGBT people, but they just rationalize away all the horrible stuff and it comes off as disingenuous at best.
If someone allows their religion to interfere with their relationships with people they love, THAT is the true sin.
A deeply held belief is something you can't just dispose of. I've studied a good few religions, several flavors of Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism and Baha'i including reading the holy books. Hinduism doesn't have just one. It has a library. I have relatives who live the Hindu lifestyle and I don't see how they could give it up. Much of their lives revolve around it. Even atheists are setting up churches these days to gather and celebrate life.
I tried to be atheist for a while but I just couldn't wrap my head around how everything came from nothing.
no one is perfect. Only God is. So in that regard me having a "sinful" lifestyle is perfectly compatible with my faith.
I also believe that one day the church will "get" it. It took them a while but they embraced science and other things that would previously have gotten one excommunicated. But today the church reaches out to divorcees, single parents and even LGBT. The progress is happening but it is slow.
I have a number of sins to my name, such as divorce, infidelity, and not to mention things like masturbation. We also have kids via fertility treatment which i have heard is a sin. My pastor knows and the kids are loved by everyone in the church.
Even if people don't believe in God, church can be a decent support system. For me it helped me see and talk to people in my town including my next door neighbor who I wasn't talking to.
Quote from: ImagineKate on November 26, 2014, 09:35:24 PM
A deeply held belief is something you can't just dispose of. I've studied a good few religions, several flavors of Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism and Baha'i including reading the holy books. Hinduism doesn't have just one. It has a library. I have relatives who live the Hindu lifestyle and I don't see how they could give it up. Much of their lives revolve around it. Even atheists are setting up churches these days to gather and celebrate life.
I'm not telling anyone to dispose of their faith. I just don't see how they can live with such resounding cognitive dissonance.
QuoteI tried to be atheist for a while but I just couldn't wrap my head around how everything came from nothing.
And I can't wrap my head around believing something that has absolutely no evidence supporting it.
Quoteno one is perfect. Only God is. So in that regard me having a "sinful" lifestyle is perfectly compatible with my faith.
But you aren't supposed to keep sinning. If you were to do that, then it would make religion pointless.
QuoteI also believe that one day the church will "get" it. It took them a while but they embraced science and other things that would previously have gotten one excommunicated. But today the church reaches out to divorcees, single parents and even LGBT. The progress is happening but it is slow.
I have a number of sins to my name, such as divorce, infidelity, and not to mention things like masturbation. We also have kids via fertility treatment which i have heard is a sin. My pastor knows and the kids are loved by everyone in the church.
Why wait for religion to 'get it' when you can just live your life without fear of things for which there is no evidence? Why not just be happy and treat others the way you want to be treated instead of worrying about how you masturbated and that you divorced? Why believe in something that says COMPLETELY NATURAL biological activities like masturbation, anal sex, oral sex, etc are 'sins' that you should feel bad about?
Jaz, I hope that he accepts you and that you two can continue with the wonderful relationship that you have. Good luck, girl! As far as the church is concerned, to me religion is only political. They make their own rules up. If there is a god, he, or she, is probably shaking his/her head at all the misinformation their "bible" has in it.