I gotta wonder what McGinn, Bowers, Meltzer are doing different than say Brassard or Rumer or Thai surgeons than dont require genital electro???
Im still doing my research but I gotta say genital electro or laser sound more unpleasant to me than going under and having the actual surgery and recovering :-\ :'( :embarrassed:
Any insight on the matter would be appreciated, thanks ;)
I hear laser isn't recommended because it may or may not be permanent. Electro down there SUCKS. I tried it for 15 mins with numbing cream once. It was like some kind of medieval torture. My current electrologist works with an anasthesiologist who will put you in a pretty good stupor for three sessions three months apart. I think I'm going this route. She says she can clear you completely in three sessions after turning the machine up to "11" and turning your junk into raw hamburger each time.
I guess you have to be REALLY serious about it!
I have been confused about this to.
One Post op friend was telling me to do hair removal there even though the surgeon I want to go to says not to.
Would really like to know from those who have gone to surgeons that did not require or recommend genital hair removal if they had any issues with hair growing inside post op.
Quote from: Eva on November 26, 2014, 10:59:41 AM
I gotta wonder what McGinn, Bowers, Meltzer are doing different than say Brassard or Rumer or Thai surgeons than dont require genital electro???
Im still doing my research but I gotta say genital electro or laser sound more unpleasant to me than going under and having the actual surgery and recovering :-\ :'( :embarrassed:
Any insight on the matter would be appreciated, thanks ;)
Can only speak for Rumer, who did my surgery. She recommended electro only if I had hair on the shaft of my penis. Hair around it or in the area didn't matter. I'm pretty hairy, but didn't have anything on the shaft, so didn't need the electro.
"REALLY serious" OK maybe they just figure since maybe THEY (McGinn, and maybe Bowers anyway) had to do it everyone else should too ;) Or maybe its just another little test or barrier they put up there.... I mean if you will do that there's no doubt your "serious" :P
I donno, I never hear much bad about Brassard and I doubt he's doing anything really different than the American surgeons...
It looks like it needs to be done one way or another, if not beforehand then during the surgery?
https://www.susans.org/wiki/Vaginoplasty
Techniques available
There are many vaginoplasty surgical techniques, some involve using autologous (patient-derived) biological tissue, from other parts of the body of the patient, to construct areas of vagina and areas of the vulvovaginal complex.
The tissues that may be used include the oral mucosa, skin flaps or grafts, the vaginal labia, penile skin and/or tissue, scrotal skin, intestinal mucosa, and others. In praxis, it is important that, when using a hair-bearing skin graft, the hair be removed preoperative via electrolysis, unless the surgeon directs otherwise, in which case, the hair follicles are removed intraoperatively, via electrocauterization or by manually scraping them off.
Besides the surgical techniques, herein discussed, for effecting vaginoplasty, earlier plastic surgery procedures do exist, however, they have grown out of technical–surgical style, because of the more effective results afforded by the current vaginoplasty techniques.
(Laser is permanent if it kills a hair follicle, but they can't guarantee killing all the follicles.)
I went to Brassard, and he says he scrapes the skin before inverting it into a vagina, so obviously no electro needed - in fact, he says hair removal is *contraindicated,* as it can make his surgical hair removal less effective. I have heard of other Brassard patients say they do have some internal hairs, but personally I do not; I have hair where I'd expect it to be based on cis women (outside of the outer labia, and of course the pubic area), and exactly one annoying little labial hair near the vaginal entrance that curls over and pokes into it sometimes, but that's it.
(Happy to answer any other questions you have about Brassard, too. I'm well satisfied.)
I know a girl that went to Dr. Greechart at Yanhee hospital, in Thailand. she didn't clear any of the genital area before and has no growth. It's a tough call. I would want to be certain of no vaginal hair growth. But I think I would trust what the surgeon says.
By the way, I have settled on a surgeon, Dr Kuzon (he doesn't have a large internet footprint but I feel good about his abilities and is my best choice when all my factors are taken into consideration and balanced).
I contacted the Gender program for his preference on clearing the genital are or not, and he does require the hair to be cleared on certain areas. So tomorrow I will give my electrolysist the diagram they emailed me of the areas to clear. They also do laser, and I have already talked about me potentially needing electrolysis or laser down there with her. They deal with a lot of trans women, just not looking forward to it. The face was bad enough.
Fwiw i had laser down there and because course dark hair two treatments its gone.
Even though I went to Dr Brassard I still did genital electro because I was always worried about a hair growing where a hair shouldn't be. It ended up delaying my SRS by about a year, but I lived with it. It wasn't overly painful or anything just uncomfortable. The only thing that sucked was the electrologist was like 100 miles from my house so I ended up driving home 100 miles with a crotch that felt like it was on fire :)
On the plus side, I was able to do bikini line electro and keep a nice triangular bush afterwards :)
I'd like another take on this question - Outside of the area where for sure no hairs are wanted, how important to all of you is/was having hair removal on the outer edges of the pubic area? Was it needed to feminize the pattern or coarseness of the hair or was it just a style point in your mind? Did HRT have any effect on this beforehand? Have any of you elected to have hair removal performed 'around-back' on the bum/anal region? (SHUDDER!)
Hi Brenna,
I hope you're well. I have a question about Dr Kuzon. I've consulted with him but I don't know anyone who has used him and have not found much online about him. You mentioned you have settled on him and I wondered if you could share why? I actually have a date set with him for later in the year but since I have time I want to continue to research into him. Any info you would be happy to share would be really helpful.
Thank you!
J
My guess is it's a skilled labor intensive process, and therefore expensive in the USA, so they don't do it. Just a guess though. Here's the info from Suporn's site. Not sure, but I think I read somewhere that if you do have remove the hair he wants you to wait some time before SRS for the skin to heal properly.
"Prior genital electrolysis is not required. Permanent genital depilation is unnecessary, expensive and uncomfortable. All hair follicles are manually excised (cut) from the scrotal skin during surgery, and will not grow subsequently. A hair-free vaginal lining is guaranteed. Prior electrolysis of the scrotal area may result in scarring and thickening of the skin which could reduce its elasticity and vaginal depth."
http://www.supornclinic.com/restricted/scheduling/protocol.aspx
Quote from: Eva on November 26, 2014, 10:59:41 AM
I gotta wonder what McGinn, Bowers, Meltzer are doing different than say Brassard or Rumer or Thai surgeons than dont require genital electro???
Im still doing my research but I gotta say genital electro or laser sound more unpleasant to me than going under and having the actual surgery and recovering :-\ :'( :embarrassed:
Any insight on the matter would be appreciated, thanks ;)
Im pretty sure it's only the surgeons who perform the penile inversion technique who require genital electrolysis, because removing the follicles during surgery is not possible when performing that style of SRS. While those who perform the non penile inversion type of SRS can remove it for you during surgery.
Laser is safe but you should try to have your last session like a year before so you know if there are any hairs left, those that are left can be removed using electrolysis or if the surgeon does it by scraping the follicle, I'm removing everything but I don't yet know which surgeon I'll end up using so ....
Actually, I know of at least one surgeon (Brassard) who does penile inversion and still promises to scrape the hair follicles, and recommends *against* genital hair removal. It's one reason I chose him - I was a bigger wimp about that than the surgery itself. ;)
(Coming up on 3 years post-op and zero hair regrowth, so at least in my case it also worked fine.)
Quote from: Jenna Marie on March 05, 2015, 05:09:21 PM
Actually, I know of at least one surgeon (Brassard) who does penile inversion and still promises to scrape the hair follicles, and recommends *against* genital hair removal. It's one reason I chose him - I was a bigger wimp about that than the surgery itself. ;)
(Coming up on 3 years post-op and zero hair regrowth, so at least in my case it also worked fine.)
Perhaps his technique involves a step that makes scraping the follicles more feasible?
You would think every surgeon would do this if it could be done. Somehow, I doubt anyone wants to do genital electrolysis.
Quote from: SarahSchilling on March 05, 2015, 12:02:32 PM
Im pretty sure it's only the surgeons who perform the penile inversion technique who require genital electrolysis, because removing the follicles during surgery is not possible when performing that style of SRS. While those who perform the non penile inversion type of SRS can remove it for you during surgery.
Hi Sarah, Im sure Dr Brassard does penile inversion with a skin graft from scrotal tissue if needed and I certainly will... I doubt its much different than the US docs but I dont know for sure... Im still going to Dr Brassard anyway because of his experience and reputation, you dont hear many complaints about him.... Also its a bargain at the current exchange rate, only $15K USD with all the aftercare included... The aftercare sounds way better than the US docs too so it seems right for me...
This is from the information packet they sent me...
QuoteELECTROLYSIS
Hair removal on external genitals before male to female reassignment surgery is debatable. Hair bearing skin on the penis shaft base with the one step technique stays outside on the neovulva. The skin that will become the internal lining of the new female genital is the rest of the penis skin, scrotal skin and a small « perineal flap» (a one square inch of skin that is located one side above the anal margin on themidline) If you want a perfect hair free vagina you need to be sure that no regrowth of hair has occurred on the area for at least one year after you have finished electrolysis or laser. Even then this does not guaranty that no hair will ever grow. The hair roots are either killed or weakened by electrolysis or laser. Those only weakened regrow. During surgery hair roots are killed with the cautery on the scrotal skin that is used as a graft (not on the « perineal flap » ) During surgery the hair roots that were weakened are less visible because they are much smaller than those found untreated areas and could be missed by the surgeon and regrow later. For this reason, in our experience expedited laser or electrolysis treatments are worse than not having hair removal at all. In fact, we can get most hair roots during surgery if they were not weakened. Regrowth after our surgery is possible but very sparse. If you want no
regrowth at all you will have to face hours of painstaking hair removal and a one year none growth period. At this time we do not feel that hair removal is indicated.
I just got my first letter to them and Im gonna get started seeing my new psych next week to get my second soon... Id like a date in late sept/oct and recover next winter... Having just got done with FFS 9 days ago and still very sore ect. its hard to think about this right now but not too hard ;)
No way Im going through all that pain and discomfort and then waiting and hoping its all permanent... Im gonna order a home electro and laser unit and work on the area they mentioned myself but otherwise Im not gonna worry about it...
Quote from: SarahSchilling on March 05, 2015, 05:50:17 PM
Perhaps his technique involves a step that makes scraping the follicles more feasible?
You would think every surgeon would do this if it could be done. Somehow, I doubt anyone wants to do genital electrolysis.
Yes that was my original question I kinda have answered above ;) I still doubt Brassard does much different than anyone else doing penile inversion though, but I dont know that for sure...
Sarah : Yeah, I can't imagine anyone *wants* it! I have no idea what Brassard does differently, if anything, but I can attest that a) he does remove the hair follicles and b) at least in some cases it works well.
He does say he does basically penile inversion, with the scrotal and perineal skin grafts for added depth.
So weird....why don't all surgeons scrape the follicles off!?
*shrugs*
Quote from: SarahSchilling on March 05, 2015, 08:22:16 PM
So weird....why don't all surgeons scrape the follicles off!?
*shrugs*
I'm a bit (lot) of a cynic, so I think of it this way.
Why don't people stop going to these surgeons?
Its not very nice, but they don't need to do it. With people queuing up for surgery its hardly their problem.
It would be more effort for them, and in the USA its expensive work. Customers don't seem to mind so why bother.
Quote from: AnonyMs on March 05, 2015, 09:39:25 PM
I'm a bit (lot) of a cynic, so I think of it this way.
Why don't people stop going to these surgeons?
Its not very nice, but they don't need to do it. With people queuing up for surgery its hardly their problem.
It would be more effort for them, and in the USA its expensive work. Customers don't seem to mind so why bother.
This is likely the reason. It irritates me, but you're right. None of these surgeons are struggling to get clients, so there's not much motivation to change things.
I'm glad my chosen surgeon doesn't require electrolysis down there though! lol
Quote from: SarahSchilling on March 05, 2015, 08:22:16 PM
So weird....why don't all surgeons scrape the follicles off!?
*shrugs*
Because some don't want to risk compromising the blood supply to the scrotal graft by scraping the follicle or applied electrocautery. It's a per surgeon thing depending on their training and procedure.
So BrenB I would also like to know why you chose Dr Kuzon. I'm in the U of M program and am waiting to get scheduled with him for bottom surgery. But I also don't know anyone who has used him and have not found much online about him. You mentioned you have settled on him and I wondered if you could share why?
I have specifically addressed this with 3 Thai surgeons, an Australian and a USA surgeon. So here is the simple answer.
You do not need to do electroysis or laser in the scrotum and penile shaft. It would be helpful to reduce the amount of work during surgery as this is a careful and slow process. Generally, the surgeons in Thailand have and assistant that does the prep work, which includes the scraping of the hair follicles, the Australian surgeon stated that electrolysis would reduce the time under anesthesia as they would have to do the scraping, and the USA surgeon had the same answer as the Thai's.
I suggest that you bluntly challenge these doctors that require electrolysis. Its barbaric and out of date.
Quote from: warlockmaker on June 08, 2015, 10:33:01 PM
I have specifically addressed this with 3 Thai surgeons, an Australian and a USA surgeon.
I'm impressed!
Its been a real issue with me and I have helped a number of ladies on this specific topic. I am disgusted with doctors that require this. Anyone that has gone thru this will tell you that its very painful. I just need to add that the Australian surgeon, basically admitted that it would take a longer time under anesthetic and that it is better to stay under for a shorter time -- but all he needs is an experienced assistant to do the prep work and save time.
Also I did not give the surgeons names to protect the innocent.....
I'm going to Bowers, who recommends but does not require electro. She told me that the chances of growing hair inside the vagina are pretty low because she removes hair pre-surgically anyway, but that it's an added measure.
Another surgeon I heard present said that electro is good because the scraping/cauterization can reduce the sensitivity of the tissue by damaging nerves.
Bowers was one of those I questioned.
I had the same comment from the Australian surgeon. It was in his instruction book to have genital electro when I said yuk, he told me he should update the information as it was no longer necessary in his opinion.
That will work better for me.... the thought of electro "down under" ::) was never something I was going to relish - comforting now tho.
L Katy :-*
I had my op in February with Dr. Sanguan Kunaporn in Thailand. He does the op in two stages. The main op is followed about a week later with another one to graft the skin inside the vagina. The skin they used is kept refrigerated from the previous week.
I was watching a nurse or doctor scraping the hair follicles off the skin while I was waiting for the second op to start. Very strange experience. I have hair growth down there but none inside my vagina.
I'm very paranoid about having hair inside since I have lots of hairs in those areas and reading personal accounts of girls still having hair down there makes me want to err on the side of caution and get some electro work done. With my spanish genetics I feel like I have to be extra cautious with this issue since I'm already still pretty hairy all over even though I've been on hrt for 3 years and T levels are super low. I've pretty much decided on brassard and he doesn't require hair removal but like I said I've read about post op girls from him having hair inside and so naturally I'm concerned, sigh :-\
I've had 3-4 sessions of laser there. With just those sessions I have so little hair left in the whole area that I am now concerned that I won't have enough hair left on the sides to cover scars from the surgery. My plan was to start electro there soon, but now thinking I shouldn't do that. I have a distant date set for Dr. Bowers, and am really warming up to the idea that I don't need to do the electro.