Well, I've been stealth for a little over 3 years now. I have been on hormones for over 3 years, had chest surgery a couple years ago. I've gotten to a point where i'm constantly surrounded by people who don't know i'm transgender. Almost everyone that used to know me are not really in my life anymore except for acquaintances I talk to here and there and one of my close guy friends. I am in my last year of undergrad studying engineering, I also have a full time internship. I have a few close male friends and a few close female friends that would consider me one of their best friends, and I consider them the same. I have known them for almost 2 years now. The problem is, they don't know I am transgender. I am scared to tell them. I don't want anything to change. Especially with my male friends. I just want to be seen as a regular guy, I don't want them to feel awkward when they talk about their dicks or my dick or whatever, I don't want them to hesitate. I have been really conflicted lately about telling them, because sometimes I really wish I could just share my struggles and important events (that have to do with being trans) with my close friends. They are all straight. They are open minded people though. Any advice? Anyone else go through this before?
Well, I'm not stealth by any means but here is my perspective on this. It was very difficult to tell my current friends I'm trans in the first place. I've surrounded myself primarily with people who aren't jerkholes, but even so it felt risky. Long story short is that I told them all and have yet to lose a current or past friend over it. I'm of the opinion that I wouldn't even WANT to be friends with people who would treat me worse because of it. As for hesitation? Well, you can't really account for that. Heheh, though my strategy might not be good for you. If I was stealth as female I'd be somewhat concerned mainly with someone reacting badly and outting me, not so much over losing a fake friend.
Mike, I can understand this. And I have to say, I believe you would be kidding yourself if you were hoping that their perception of you would not change the slightest if you tell them. They can all be totally liberal and open minded, but this goes deeper. With some people it may be less so but I am not sure how to know them. They would not mean bad, but they would have this fact of you in your mind. Its tough - especially since just telling one or two of them and asking them to not tell this on to the others is next to impossible. One possible way would be to have only people know this who are most unlikely to meet the rest of your friends except a birthday party. For me it is like this - I have rarely told anyone for tha past 10 years. but I still have 2 friends from that time , who know. One of them I can trust to never tell this to anyone, the other sadly not so mus, but she tries her best now that I insisted. One other friend found out - he says he knew it because he saw from my face and body that I am. I hope he does not tell to omany people. So this is hard to contain really. I think at work, my status is unknown and so the colleages there dont know this. But in private I think people either know or suspect something, but wont ask for it. Its all a bit awkward, but I experienced how people shift how they relate to you when they know, so its not cool. Stupid example, but one friend now just assumes I know stuff about cars and how to fix them and lets me carry heavy boxes myself while he helps a friend of mine with all of this. How clichee is that :( - Not that I mind carrying my own stuff or telling him again that I dont know car brands, but it showed me what goes on in the back of the mind where I am now filed under "guy living as a woman"
Quote from: MikeG500 on November 29, 2014, 07:45:04 PM
I really wish I could just share my struggles and important events (that have to do with being trans) with my close friends. They are all straight. They are open minded people though. Any advice? Anyone else go through this before?
This is the nub of it - I'm not stealth at work (couldn't be if I tried since I transitioned there only eight months ago) and while I don't go on and on about being trans I do talk about some of my struggles and victories with my closest colleagues. While it isn't their experience, and I don't expect them to understand 100%, they will react to how I feel about it which is the important part. If I couldn't do that I think I'd feel suffocated by stuff I wouldn't otherwise feel comfortable about raising...so I totally get where you're coming from. I guess the issue is how these peers will react. One might hope for acceptance and understanding, and that would be a great outcome, problem is you won't know until you know. Maybe see if you can casually raise the issue of trans gender people, especially f2m, to gauge their response. that might give you an idea of how to proceed.
Dear Mike,
Your post hit me with some thoughts and experiences I have had recently. I was fortunate to spend some time with a well known very open trans man, Buck Angel, and a less known but very public Australian transman, whose name I won't publish.
Buck was very public in stating that he was a man with a vagina, and a very proud and positive man.
I met him at a time when I have been dealing with my upcoming surgery, a surgery that will make me a woman with a vagina.
His comments have made met reconsider my views, and this may sound odd, will I be anymore of a woman with a vagina than I am without one?
How will this change how I am accepted as female by my cisfemale friends?
Why is this important to me? Is it?
I will, like Grace, never be in stealth - for similar reasons, and on top of that I am well known publicly as a transwomen.
So should we, can we, take opinion of cis people of who, what, or how we are?
Or do we admit publicly as well as privately that we are trans?
Your question is how would your life be changed if cis friends knew you where trans. I am beginning to accept that what is more important is how will llives of cis people be changed when they know I am trans.
I'm not sure about all of this, as I have said here and in other threads that I am in a bit of a state of flux. I'm exploring my feelings and future interactions, so please take my comments as thoughts, not as definite opinion .
Quote from: Ms Grace on November 30, 2014, 05:09:50 AM
One might hope for acceptance and understanding, and that would be a great outcome, problem is you won't know until you know.
I am not sure this would be the greatest outcome. It would be fine if it is like that. Acceptance is nice, but I doubt anyone can truely understand. The thing is, I believe for most people in this context "acceptance" means accepting you as a transperson. To accept you are trans. But what does that mean to them? What will they see you as. As a woman who became a man or is living as a man? Or do they really really deep down get it, that you are a man. I think for a majority it is the first. They accept that you are now living and presenting and want to be treated as a man and they will do the best to accomodate this wish. But that is not full acceptance of the way I would wish for. I would wish for acceptance that you are a man who was born with body features that dont match this. I think however this acceptance is something that is more rare once one has "come out".
I dont like that it is like this. I am glad I have friends who are accepting me as I am, even though I know not all of them are having the second type of acceptance that I wish for. But I also need someone real not just on Susans to talk about my issues and problems that are unique to my situation. So I think this is really a proper dilemma...
Quote from: Cindy on November 30, 2014, 05:42:25 AM
I met him at a time when I have been dealing with my upcoming surgery, a surgery that will make me a woman with a vagina.
His comments have made met reconsider my views, and this may sound odd, will I be anymore of a woman with a vagina than I am without one?
How will this change how I am accepted as female by my cisfemale friends?
Why is this important to me? Is it?
I think that no - a vagina does not make you any more a woman than not having it. It may increase social acceptance, but I think this is something I would not want to give in on - just to have surgery to match some peoples dualism in sex? No way. I think the only really good reason to have this surgery is if you feel the deep need that you want this to get your body to match what your internal body map is like. If it does not hurt to think about having a vagina that is not there, why go through the pain of surgery to get it. Just for the people who cannot deal with someone violating their gender dualism?
Thanks for all the replies!
Cindy, you bring up an interesting point. I know that for me, I need bottom surgery, not purely because I would want to please other people's view of sex and gender, but because it would make me feel more comfortable in my body, for my own reasons.
Quote from: Skeptoid on November 29, 2014, 10:50:22 PM
If I was stealth as female I'd be somewhat concerned mainly with someone reacting badly and outting me, not so much over losing a fake friend.
That is another issue. It's so difficult to tell one or two people, and then not know who else knows if they tell anyone else. I have actually come out to a couple girls that I casually knew, who I knew were very lgbt friendly, and they pretty much treated me the same. I'm also pretty sure they didn't tell other people. But the thing is, these girls were not connected with my main social circle at all. That's also why I felt okay telling them. I would hope that my close friends would respect me enough to keep it to themselves if I asked them to.
Quote from: anjaq on November 30, 2014, 05:00:32 AM
Mike, I can understand this. And I have to say, I believe you would be kidding yourself if you were hoping that their perception of you would not change the slightest if you tell them. They can all be totally liberal and open minded, but this goes deeper. With some people it may be less so but I am not sure how to know them. They would not mean bad, but they would have this fact of you in your mind. Its tough - especially since just telling one or two of them and asking them to not tell this on to the others is next to impossible.
You are right, I guess that my wish would be that their new perception of me, would only be different in that they felt they knew me better, or that they respected me more for being true to myself, but maybe this is wishful thinking.
Quote from: Ms Grace on November 30, 2014, 05:09:50 AM
This is the nub of it - I'm not stealth at work (couldn't be if I tried since I transitioned there only eight months ago) and while I don't go on and on about being trans I do talk about some of my struggles and victories with my closest colleagues. While it isn't their experience, and I don't expect them to understand 100%, they will react to how I feel about it which is the important part. If I couldn't do that I think I'd feel suffocated by stuff I wouldn't otherwise feel comfortable about raising...so I totally get where you're coming from. I guess the issue is how these peers will react. One might hope for acceptance and understanding, and that would be a great outcome, problem is you won't know until you know. Maybe see if you can casually raise the issue of trans gender people, especially f2m, to gauge their response. that might give you an idea of how to proceed.
That's great that you can share your experiences with them. That is what I really want with some of my friends. Just because I sometimes feel like they don't even know me when I am going through such big things in my life related to transition and I can only talk to my mother about it. (Which is awkward in itself sometimes).
Quote from: anjaq on November 30, 2014, 05:59:36 AM
I am not sure this would be the greatest outcome. It would be fine if it is like that. Acceptance is nice, but I doubt anyone can truely understand. The thing is, I believe for most people in this context "acceptance" means accepting you as a transperson. To accept you are trans. But what does that mean to them? What will they see you as. As a woman who became a man or is living as a man? Or do they really really deep down get it, that you are a man. I think for a majority it is the first. They accept that you are now living and presenting and want to be treated as a man and they will do the best to accomodate this wish.
I've had a couple experiences telling acquaintances that were girls who knew me only as Mike and were LGBT friendly and they were not part of my social circle or school or work circle. I also told a girl that I was about to date once. They all seemed to treat me the same, as a man. Although, I didn't hang out with them much so it could be that. Also, they weren't close friends.
I would think that if you knew someone as a man or as a woman for years and they told you they were born the opposite it would be harder to relate that image and all its associations to what they are now. But I guess deep down there is always that change in perception. Like "this guy used to be a girl" hmmm then they will subconsciously act different.
Ugh...
Well, I also have been thinking, maybe it comes down to me having to be OKAY with people knowing I am trans and accepting that I am trans myself. I always wondered what it would be like to just be completely open and not live stealth. I'm not saying shout it to everyone I meet but just telling people when I become friends with them and having it be public knowledge. Is that a better way to live? I enjoy just living as a regular man, not having people associate that label with me, and not having stupid questions being thrown at me all the time. But maybe I do need to accept myself more so that it would be okay if someone "found out".
Also...Does the transsexual forum mean the women forum? Just wondering haha.
Hi Mike.
For what it is worth, (since you asked), here is the opinion of an old "stealthie", (40+ years).
DON'T DO IT! No matter what, things will change. Your feeling of having "come clean" will last for who knows how long, but your privacy will be lost forever. And for what? You already share a friendship and a camaraderie among men who are now your peers. Are you not a man? My advice,(if asked),would be that if you feel a need to share your past, do so in the trans* community.
I actually realize just how difficult this is as most men who share your history have long since moved on. I am sure, given time, you will find one or two who will share your need, so just give it time and think long and hard before you potentially throw away what you have worked for so hard to attain.
Quote from: Susan522 on November 30, 2014, 11:11:08 PM
Hi Mike.
For what it is worth, (since you asked), here is the opinion of an old "stealthie", (40+ years).
DON'T DO IT! No matter what, things will change. Your feeling of having "come clean" will last for who knows how long, but your privacy will be lost forever. And for what? You already share a friendship and a camaraderie among men who are now your peers. Are you not a man? My advice,(if asked),would be that if you feel a need to share your past, do so in the trans* community.
I actually realize just how difficult this is as most men who share your history have long since moved on. I am sure, given time, you will find one or two who will share your need, so just give it time and think long and hard before you potentially throw away what you have worked for so hard to attain.
I understand what you mean about sharing my past with the trans community, but I don't relate to many transmen, a lot of them are completely open and out about it and only hang out with other trans/lgbt people. I want to be able to share things such as dating issues and surgeries that might be coming up with the friends I have close relationships with in person. I don't necessarily want to tell them because I want them to know I am transgender for the sake of it, but because I feel in order to have a whole relationship with these people I should be able to talk to them about things that really trouble me. It seems most of the opinions I have so far are that I should not tell them. I guess that's not what I wanted to hear, but it is the truth from your experiences.
QuoteI understand what you mean about sharing my past with the trans community, but I don't relate to many transmen, a lot of them are completely open and out about it and only hang out with other trans/lgbt people
Yes. That
is the problem. Having blended into the "mainstream" of society, you have essentially "moved on" to a place where those who do not know your history simply accept you as the man you are. Was that not the goal... live your life as "just a man"? Obviously there will be those who will/must know, but in my experience, unless they share my bed or are my doctor, who I am to others is simply who I am. What you see, is what you get.
As for issues such as future surgeries or dating, how would "cis" guys even have a frame of reference? In all honesty, I really have no idea how you must feel. All I can do is to urge caution and serious contemplation of possible "pros" vs, "cons" when it comes to sharing your medical history.
In my case, my past I long gone and frankly quite (thankfully) forgotten. Given time, I expect that that too, will be your experience. Perhaps you are just still adjusting to your new normal.
I mostly agree here with Susan (40 years! wow!).
It is of course tempting to not "have a secret" or not having to think about how to explain certain things about the past or present body configurations (although my desire would then rather be to fix my body further) and just be open. This also takes away all that fear and anxiety and paranoia of "being found out", which ruins the fun of life at times. But my goal was never to live as a transwoman but to just be a woman. I try to speak the truth about my past as far as needed without mentioning the T* word.
Quote from: MikeG500 on November 30, 2014, 09:24:25 AM
I've had a couple experiences telling acquaintances that were girls who knew me only as Mike and were LGBT friendly and they were not part of my social circle or school or work circle. I also told a girl that I was about to date once. They all seemed to treat me the same, as a man. Although, I didn't hang out with them much so it could be that. Also, they weren't close friends.
It is sometimes hard to tell and in that sense does not make a difference for many practical purposes if some people will treat you slightly difference because they perceive you differently. I think there are subtle clues and that makes it hard to tell. When it comes to strong emotional situations, it can show. A classical example is the transwoman dating a guy. He really loves her, wants to be with her and then she tells him and suddenly he will retreat and then claim that it just wont work out for any other reason - different interests, his desire to have own kids, another woman. If the situation is more emotional (they had sex and maybe moved together), this can show more clearly in violence. To me this shows that for many the perception DOES change in the back of the head - if those people are accepting, their day to day regular interactions will not be that different - you can still have a beer with them and talk about cars or whatever, but in some situations it will show. Like again from a womans perspective some other woman telling me that I cannot know about male dominance because I did not grew up as a girl, so how am I supposed to know - excluding me from her peer group. That person can be a very liberal open minded woman. A lot of it is ideological and a lot of it is based on the assumption that genitals or genetics or childhood/youth experiences define gender.
I think there are also some people who really dont perceive one differently and really truely just take us for real:
QuoteI would think that if you knew someone as a man or as a woman for years and they told you they were born the opposite it would be harder to relate that image and all its associations to what they are now. But I guess deep down there is always that change in perception. Like "this guy used to be a girl" hmmm then they will subconsciously act different.
For them it may go much further and they will only drop the bomb on you when it comes to maybe sex talk "you cannot know how it is to .... because you have no ...". This may be less hurtful possibly because it is the truth to a degree. I cannot have kids, so yes of course, I cannot participate in talks about kids planning fully - just like any other woman without an uterus. It still hurts, but maybe I can put this off as not being trans related by default
So I guess what I TRY to do is to talk about these issues only to those people that already know anyways for some reason and try to contain that this info spreads. You could for example talk to those two gorls about your issues, since you are already out to them and this will stay outside your main circle of friends?
The next thing is WHAT do you feel the need to share with them and why. Many things they cannot relate to, only other transguys could. Others are not related to transness and you can share them anyways. Like I shared with my colleagues that I hate my voice and have issues with it that may even need surgery. I did not mention trans even once, for them it is understandable that I feel not happy about it - so it is. If you are short for a guy or have not enough beard growth or vour voice is odd - those are things you can after all talk about with your guys without putting out the trans* card.
I think the one thing you have to expect is that their impressions of you will change if you tell them. It may not be a bad change even, but they will change.
This is an unfortunate side effect of the rigid binary mindset within our culture today and the general rejection of transgender people by a large subset of our population.
I don't pretend to be stealth and couldn't be at work since I transitioned in place. But I don't shout it out, nor do I tell people unless I feel it is necessary. The woman who does my nails and eyebrows has never been told and I don't have reason to think she suspects. Likewise with lots of other people. Most of my close friends know because I've kept so many of them through transition, though I've lost a few whom I discovered were narrow minded and who chose to reject the real me.
But, having said all that, I doubt that were I in your position that I would tell those friends who've only known you as male. Maybe find a trans support group and other trans people with whom to share issues? That might be helpful.
However, I have to agree with others. Your friends may very well continue to accept you and want you in their lives but almost certainly their perspective of you will change if you tell them.
Quote from: anjaq on December 02, 2014, 06:15:39 AM
The next thing is WHAT do you feel the need to share with them and why. Many things they cannot relate to, only other transguys could. Others are not related to transness and you can share them anyways. Like I shared with my colleagues that I hate my voice and have issues with it that may even need surgery. I did not mention trans even once, for them it is understandable that I feel not happy about it - so it is. If you are short for a guy or have not enough beard growth or vour voice is odd - those are things you can after all talk about with your guys without putting out the trans* card.
This is a good discussion and i'd like to keep it going. I hope some trans men have some input. I guess this is not the right forum since most probably post in the transgender forum I guess.
I know that my male friends will not be able to directly relate to trans dating/surgery issues, but I would think they would be there for me or have some advice or just words of support. Just a feeling of having my back. For example, if a friend was raped, had cancer, was born with only 1 leg, etc etc, I could not relate to that, but I could definitely be a friend and help them any way I could and just be there for them when they needed it. Does that make sense? Or am I way off base?
Don't get me wrong, I have loved living as a regular man for the past 3 years, no one talking about me being transgender, no questions, just me being the man I am. I want to CONTINUE to live the exact same way I have been living, except to open up to my close friends on the subject.
Do any of you ever feel that there is this distance between you and your friends who don't know your history and your current struggles. Maybe if one has all the SRS surgeries done then it's a lot different. But even with my best friends, I still feel a distance. It's been bothering me a lot. I am very conflicted about it.
For example, i'm doing a fundraiser for my bottom surgery on gofundme. Since I couldn't post it publicly I had to private message all the people that knew me from before and share it. I got tons of awesome messages of support (although not many donations..) But when I was going through my friends list It was crazy to see that I was almost forgetting that all these people DON'T know. I would love to share this with my close friends and tell them about the awesome messages i've gotten and how i'm struggling with donations, but I can't. There are way more people on my facebook that don't know than do know. I want to keep it that way, but I just felt strange that this huge new venture in my life is completely unknown to my good friends.
Yes, I can relate to wanting to share everything with your closest friends. I am glad that I have 2 closest friends who I can talk to about the issues I have due to my history. But I dont think I need ALL of them to know. But of course it is your choice. If you feel the need to share this - because you feel proud of it or because you feel you have achieved something or because you feel the need to disclose as a matter of showing trust... it is up to you of course. So maybe it is for you - I guess it can be totally ok to be recognized as a transguy and if your friends really like you they will stay your friends, even if they may see you different from there on and bother you with intimate questions. I dont know guy-world, but in girl-world such issues just occur. Women sitting in a group and chatting about periods, baby wishes and birthing and if a transwoman comes in they may stop, if asked why they would maybe say something like "well, you cannot have babies after all and dont have periods - so we thought we would rather talk about something different. " - I mean - yes, true, but still - hurtful,.... at least to me.
Maybe it is not even meant to be like that, maybe even the opposite, maybe one gets pitied. I just try to not get these things, so I feel ok with only a few people knowing and I can talk to those about what is going on with me.
But I think in these times and in the right place it is possible to live openly trans and be accepted as a human being and be treated respectful and even with friendship. So it is a hard decision - and one that is irreversible.
Quote from: anjaq on December 05, 2014, 05:48:25 PM
Yes, I can relate to wanting to share everything with your closest friends. I am glad that I have 2 closest friends who I can talk to about the issues I have due to my history. But I dont think I need ALL of them to know. But of course it is your choice. If you feel the need to share this - because you feel proud of it or because you feel you have achieved something or because you feel the need to disclose as a matter of showing trust... it is up to you of course. So maybe it is for you - I guess it can be totally ok to be recognized as a transguy and if your friends really like you they will stay your friends, even if they may see you different from there on and bother you with intimate questions. I dont know guy-world, but in girl-world such issues just occur. Women sitting in a group and chatting about periods, baby wishes and birthing and if a transwoman comes in they may stop, if asked why they would maybe say something like "well, you cannot have babies after all and dont have periods - so we thought we would rather talk about something different. " - I mean - yes, true, but still - hurtful,.... at least to me.
Maybe it is not even meant to be like that, maybe even the opposite, maybe one gets pitied. I just try to not get these things, so I feel ok with only a few people knowing and I can talk to those about what is going on with me.
But I think in these times and in the right place it is possible to live openly trans and be accepted as a human being and be treated respectful and even with friendship. So it is a hard decision - and one that is irreversible.
I definitely don't want all my friends to know. Like I said in my earlier post, it's only my few very close friends. I have no desire to tell my other friends or acquaintances. And I don't think I would have those types of issues with men. We barely even talk about intimate details on anything as it is. The only thing i'd be afraid of is them being awkward about bathroom or penis jokes or sex. But then again, the one male friend I have that already knows who is one of my long time good friends, he told me last night that he sees me as a guy and thinks I have more balls that anyone he knows for going through some of the ->-bleeped-<- I went through. This was just a recent conversation I had which made me feel pretty good.
I struggle with this very much lately. But I will not come out of deep stealth, I know I will still be treated like the woman I am...but it will be a woman that use to be a man!!!!
The scary thing is...I'm really not in deep stealth! There are many people that know about me, but so far they have not said anything....not that I know of! And as I become more social the chances of people finding out is becoming greater. For the most part I have been treated the same as any other women by woman that do know, in fact I am fairly good friends with my electroligist....but even with her there's little things that are said that I know would not be if she didn't know.....as for the few men that know....well they don't say anything, but the looks I get are usually ones of them thinking about there own parts :o or like the man I was seeing for awhile until I told him, and now, I'm now just another buddy....whatever!!!
Hey Mike,
I'm in a similar place and mostly stealth. There's one guy friend who I've known for 2 years, and I've been wanting to come out to him. I completely understand that sense of disconnection. I think my friend can sense that I've put a wall up, that there's something I don't share or don't trust him with. I can't talk to him about certain things like why I'm having family conflict, why my relationship with my ex was actually complicated, or why I'm hesitant to go swimming or camping because he'll notice my chest scars.
Before deciding I want to tell him, I weighed some pros and cons. I really appreciate having 'guy time' where nobody knows and I'm unquestionably accepted, and guys feel comfortable to joke about their balls or whatever. But I also need close friends with who I can share everything and feel like there is no possibility of "will this person still be my friend if I share something about myself?". I don't like that pressure and I think it puts a cap on getting closer to that person. I would rather have that stealth guy-time with acquaintances, and have more open friendships with people I actually care about.
The dynamics of the friendship probably will change a little bit, and I expect sex jokes etc to become a little awkward (but they don't have to be). I figure that acquaintances are easier to come by than real friends, and life's too short to not make yourself vulnerable to the friends you care about.
I've actually been really trying to tell my friend soon (this month), so if I manage it, I'll keep you posted :P
I've been doubting if I shoukd reply here because I'm not stealth at all and I don't think I could be 100% at this moment even if I wanted. But I'm just going to deposit my experience with being fully out (by choice, I was there under my new name and I tend to pass mostly) at school.
I'm pre-topsurgery and on T since June, my voice dropped some before I started school and even more during the first weeks.
When I started nobody really doubted I was male, sure a feminine, small male but they had no reason to think I wasn't since I was Nathan and considered male by the staff and myself. I wanted to see how it felt to be Nathan and not tell anyone about being trans, and I didn't really like it :p I felt I had to hide myself all the time, at sports I couldn't explain why I got out of breath easy, I felt uncomfortable in the bathroom, I felt I couldn't share my (really exciting) changes on T, had to omit the truth about not being at school for my endo and psychiatrist and so forth.
I had experienced an amazing freedom after starting to live as me and I was more capable of forming friendships without that wall : now, it felt I was back to pretending and hiding. At the moment being trans is part of my experience of life, at several moments it becomes important. I feel uncomfortable 'having to hide' that.
So I came out, slowly at first to one person because I was really out of breath after biking and talking at the same time with her. I simply said: I'm wearing a binder because I'm transgender and that's really constricting my breathing. Two or three questions and answers and we moved on. Slowly I told more people and finally came out to everyone when I wanted to ask my teacher (healthy diet) a specific question about my situation with a mixed physical state. I asked it in the group because I didn't feel I had to be all secretive about it.
And sure I answered questions and gave some more explanations. Every now and then I'll get another question that shows they've thought about it and sometimes they show that they know and that they care about how I feel (example: We were roleplaying and I was given a case were the character was a girl, my partner said I should just use my own name because he thought it's probably not nice for me to even play a girl at the moment). I don't mind that actually, to me it's just that I have a particular situation at times and my friend care and are sometimes curious.
Now I don't feel I'm not seen as a guy. Sometimes I slip up and forget as a guy I shouldn't do certain things like heartily agreeing with how horrible periods are. At those times I get this weird look and then the 'AHA'-moment :p I get called buddy, dude, mate... Nobody slips up. I am very open, I complain about my binder, I brag about stabbing myself for T :p I get excited about getting facial hair... I personally feel absolutely accepted as me, being trans simply is a part of who I am as a person. Sure I'm just a guy, but hey, I don't feel like pretending my history hasn't been different then that of some others. It gives me freedom.
I guess you have to decide what you want from the situation. I'm definetly not saying my way is the right way for everyone. I also consider myself lucky with awesome classmates and I'm in Belgium which I consider pretty accepting. I valued complete freedom over the risk of being seen as 'less' male. I'm sure they do see me differently now then before. I've just decided that I don't think this different is bad different.
Also the men still totally don't care that I'm in the bathroom with them (even keep talking with me through the door sometimes, I thought guys didn't do that????), and make dirty jokes about penises and women :p
I'm actually going to buck the tide with a different experience... this applies to both people who saw me transition, and those who found out later. In the beginning, yes, the way they saw me *did* change, and it was subtle but annoying to see that now I was in a mental category of "woman, but not quite like other women."
The fascinating thing, to me, was that their perceptions and behavior eventually changed BACK. People's ideas of gender are so hardwired that in time they started reacting to me just like another woman again (female friends expected me to have a tampon in my purse or started talking to me about childbirth, male friends joked about my fondness for shopping or treated me with the same discreet chivalry and flirtatiousness that they did all women, that sort of thing). It was too hard for them to maintain the mental distance versus relaxing back into subconsciously identifying me as a "normal woman." It took anywhere from a few days to a couple of years, mind you, with the longest lag time being the people who'd watched me transition from the beginning.
Heck, my father even treats me with the same faintly patronizing disdain my sister always got, now. ;)
Quote from: kast on December 09, 2014, 11:23:58 PM
Hey Mike,
I'm in a similar place and mostly stealth. There's one guy friend who I've known for 2 years, and I've been wanting to come out to him. I completely understand that sense of disconnection. I think my friend can sense that I've put a wall up, that there's something I don't share or don't trust him with. I can't talk to him about certain things like why I'm having family conflict, why my relationship with my ex was actually complicated, or why I'm hesitant to go swimming or camping because he'll notice my chest scars.
Before deciding I want to tell him, I weighed some pros and cons. I really appreciate having 'guy time' where nobody knows and I'm unquestionably accepted, and guys feel comfortable to joke about their balls or whatever. But I also need close friends with who I can share everything and feel like there is no possibility of "will this person still be my friend if I share something about myself?". I don't like that pressure and I think it puts a cap on getting closer to that person. I would rather have that stealth guy-time with acquaintances, and have more open friendships with people I actually care about.
The dynamics of the friendship probably will change a little bit, and I expect sex jokes etc to become a little awkward (but they don't have to be). I figure that acquaintances are easier to come by than real friends, and life's too short to not make yourself vulnerable to the friends you care about.
I've actually been really trying to tell my friend soon (this month), so if I manage it, I'll keep you posted :P
I'm really interested to hear how it goes, I may even do so myself in the next couple months... PM me if you want to talk about it kast.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on December 10, 2014, 10:26:56 AM
I'm actually going to buck the tide with a different experience... this applies to both people who saw me transition, and those who found out later. In the beginning, yes, the way they saw me *did* change, and it was subtle but annoying to see that now I was in a mental category of "woman, but not quite like other women."
The fascinating thing, to me, was that their perceptions and behavior eventually changed BACK. People's ideas of gender are so hardwired that in time they started reacting to me just like another woman again (female friends expected me to have a tampon in my purse or started talking to me about childbirth, male friends joked about my fondness for shopping or treated me with the same discreet chivalry and flirtatiousness that they did all women, that sort of thing). It was too hard for them to maintain the mental distance versus relaxing back into subconsciously identifying me as a "normal woman." It took anywhere from a few days to a couple of years, mind you, with the longest lag time being the people who'd watched me transition from the beginning.
Heck, my father even treats me with the same faintly patronizing disdain my sister always got, now. ;)
That's really interesting. I think that you make a really good point. I actually think that could potentially happen with my friends, if they even do start treating me like a "man, but not quite like other men."
@NathanialM: I really have no interest in letting anyone know who is just a friend or acquaintance. I don't feel like i'm hiding anything from them at all. I don't even feel like i'm hiding anything from my close friends. I just feel like in order to have a closer relationship it might be nice to share it with them, in hopes they won't see me any less than the man they have seen me all along. It's still up for debate anyways as I think about it. I love living as a man, not a transgender man. I never feel like I don't fit in with the guys or that I slip up and say something only a woman would understand. I just want to feel closer to my really good friends, that's all. Thanks for your input anyways.
Quote from: Just Shelly on December 09, 2014, 10:45:11 PM
I struggle with this very much lately. But I will not come out of deep stealth, I know I will still be treated like the woman I am...but it will be a woman that use to be a man!!!!
The scary thing is...I'm really not in deep stealth! There are many people that know about me, but so far they have not said anything....not that I know of! And as I become more social the chances of people finding out is becoming greater. For the most part I have been treated the same as any other women by woman that do know, in fact I am fairly good friends with my electroligist....but even with her there's little things that are said that I know would not be if she didn't know.....as for the few men that know....well they don't say anything, but the looks I get are usually ones of them thinking about there own parts :o or like the man I was seeing for awhile until I told him, and now, I'm now just another buddy....whatever!!!
I also have a lot of people that know about me that haven't said anything, but these are just people from my high school or earlier years that I don't really see very much at all. It is crazy too because I had a guy who I knew in grade school that is in a couple of engineering classes, but I don't think he realizes. Even if he does, he hasn't told anyone I'm pretty positive.
If you want to discuss this in more depth PM me. I like to have conversations with other trans people because I only mostly have cisgender straight friends off the internet.
Quote from: MikeG500 on December 11, 2014, 05:58:54 PM
@NathanialM: I really have no interest in letting anyone know who is just a friend or acquaintance. I don't feel like i'm hiding anything from them at all. I don't even feel like i'm hiding anything from my close friends. I just feel like in order to have a closer relationship it might be nice to share it with them, in hopes they won't see me any less than the man they have seen me all along. It's still up for debate anyways as I think about it. I love living as a man, not a transgender man. I never feel like I don't fit in with the guys or that I slip up and say something only a woman would understand. I just want to feel closer to my really good friends, that's all. Thanks for your input anyways.
I didn't mean to imply that you did or that you were hiding something. I hope I didn't come across that way, i was just explaining my thoughts. I don't feel that if I don't tell someone I'l lying or hiding either, I just find it easier. Nor do I feel I don't fit in with the guys. I guess I just wanted to tell you that people in my case have been amazing and that I do think telling someone can end just fine. I'm sorry if it felt like I was trying to say something different. I didn't mean to.
Quote from: NathanielM on December 12, 2014, 12:48:48 AM
I didn't mean to imply that you did or that you were hiding something. I hope I didn't come across that way, i was just explaining my thoughts. I don't feel that if I don't tell someone I'l lying or hiding either, I just find it easier. Nor do I feel I don't fit in with the guys. I guess I just wanted to tell you that people in my case have been amazing and that I do think telling someone can end just fine. I'm sorry if it felt like I was trying to say something different. I didn't mean to.
I didnt take it that way at all, no problem. I was just saying how I felt about my situation.