Because I think I might need one. I dunno. Advice highly valued. Sorry for the long-winded rambling.
(And sorry for all the posts/threads recently, btw.)
Anyway. Here's my deal: recently, I've been seriously thinking about top surgery, to the point where I've sent out a few emails enquiring about scheduling consultations. The prospect sounds really exciting to me right now, but when I reign in the happy-emotions, some doubts start to creep in and I'm having a hard time telling the difference between ''maintaining realistic expectations'' and ''anxiety masquerading as logic.''
I'm pre-T and somewhat attached to the idea of getting top surgery as a first step for a couple of reasons. Some are legit, imo -- I am much happier when I bind, but binding exacerbates my asthma and gives me back pain, which distracts me from my work. I'm a hairy guy, and I'm sure that that'll only escalate when I'm on HRT. The thought of thick, dark hair on my masculine chest? Great. On my feminine breasts? Ugh, no. Plus, I'm a borderline candidate for a peri (although I would not complain about a DI), and it's my hope that an earlier top surgery will circumnavigate the skin elasticity changes that can accompany long term binding.
But some of my other reasons ... idk. Ok. I'll admit, that I still have some questions about my identity and what I want. I'm not one who has known they were trans from age 4 on. I'm still profoundly afraid that I'll wake up cis tomorrow, or realize I've been a confused, delusional girl all along, and that I've retrofitted my Weirdness into Trans-ness because I find it more palatable than just accepting myself for who I am. Which honestly may happen! I feel like the possibility can't be discounted.
This fear has put a serious crimp in my transition progress, as I have not come out to my family and friends (other than my mother, who asked ME point blank) out of worry that I will have to ''take it back'' later. I'm scared to close doors behind me; I want an escape route to be clear. But that means no testosterone yet (can't get that voice back!), no social transition. If I could disappear and reappear male, I would, but I can't. So I'm stuck.
Top surgery, to an extent, seems like the only way forward. Scars truly don't bother me and surgery doesn't scare me. I have almost no attachment to my body, and can't even imagine a degree of non-facial disfigurement that would trouble me. If I turned out to be a woman, I'd just be a woman without tits, big whoop. I can always get 'em saline'd back in if I felt like it looked wrong.* Plus, I bind 4-5 days a week, and from what I can tell, literally no one has ever noticed. My womanhood has never been questioned (... unfortunately), I've never been told it looks weird or funny, and not even my closest friends seem to have picked up on the fact that my cup size has radically dropped over the last six months.
So, it feels safe and accessible, socially. ...And that strikes me as unrealistic at best, and a good way to screw up my life at worst. My mom referred to top surgery as ''an act of violence [to the body]'' the other day. I can't imagine feeling that way even if I were a woman, but maybe...? Maybe...?
Hell, I don't even have that much chest dysphoria. It's not like with my downstairs stuff, where I very acutely feel discomfort with my current junk and intense desire for a cis guy's. My breast are just there, and it's better when they're not. So top surgery is less an intense need for me than it is a box to check off, ideally sooner rather than later.
Also, VAINLY, I'm afraid that my body will look extremely weird post-surgery. I'm very, uh. Lady shaped. Small waist, obvious and undisguisable hips. My proportions would be all wrong, even more obviously so than now. My chest is objectively nice, at least. My lower body troubles me. What if this makes it worse?
Jesus, that was long. But I seriously need to check in with other guys living in the real world on this. My GT will write me a letter, but it's no good if it came out of my own self delusion. Talk to me, please! Anecdotes, words of wisdom, a slap upside the head -- whatever!
*The time and cost of further breast augmentation would be horrifying, but for the sake of my existential trauma, let's put that aside for now.
Big hug! Is it just a "WTH am I doing" moment? I think they're to be expected, hon.
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 02, 2014, 05:31:48 PM
Big hug! Is it just a "WTH am I doing" moment? I think they're to be expected, hon.
Hugs, Devlyn
Thanks, Devlyn. I really, really appreciate it. Right now? Definitely. I'm honestly at work right now, and I was just hit by a truckload of panic and doubt. Which is why you guys have to read my novel of a post, slowly typed out on VA wifi.
I don't know. I've talked myself in so many circles that I can't tell whether I'm being over-eager or too self-sabotaging. It's like a teeter totter. Am I finally accepting myself, or am I too quick to buy into a phase? Is this rational scrutiny, or excessive criticism? Progress or obsession? And back and forth and back and forth ... ;) Thanks, brain.
Maybe do a sudoku, you know, the hard ones at the back of the book? To give your brain a rest and all! :laugh:
Seriously, I think you should assume this won't be answered today. Try to set it aside for a bit and give your thoughts time to settle down.
Hugs, Devlyn
Hey, I also think I turned my weirdness into thinking I'm trans and I also don't have much intense chest dysphoria. They're just there, I feel like they don't belong to me and want them gone. I think you've given great reasons to get top surgery. Nothing is more important than feeling comfortable physically. I think you should go with your gut and get it done. You don't want to let doubt hold you back from living and all thay clichéd stuff ;)
If you think a masculine chest is what you are looking for, then it is just what you are looking for. You do not need to be trans or to identify as male to hate having breasts.
I had my top surgery when I was 2 months on very low dose T, so basically nothing had changed regarding my feminine body shape, yet I definitely gained confidence in my body. Before top surgery i would avoid looking at the mirror at all, but after the surgery i couldn't stop taking topless pics lol
Yes, I've had many a "what the heck" moments. Actually had a moment right before the big reveal. I had to call a friend to sort of walk me off the ledge. :) Alas the actual reveal ended up much less exciting. I looked down at myself and said "that's what I should have looked like". I am a *very* low drama guy.
I love Devlyn's post. Truer words and all that. :)
But no, you don't even have to be trans to not like your chesticles, seems actually kind of common out there. You might look up someone with a youtube blog "Perpetual Tomboy". Someone who is not a trans guy (perhaps trans in some sense), and just had top surgery. Many women aren't very endowed so it's not like you even would have to be trans at all. It's not really like your mom thinks. A peri is not actually too visible in terms of scars, the scar on the DI, while visible isn't all that awful. I walked around in swim trunks last year (relax guys I used zinc oxide, and it wasn't that long anyway).
Binding was a huge factor for me. I hate it with a passion. And it's so hot and sticky.
--Jay
Thank you guys so much. I was having a minor freak out. Which is weird, because normally I consider myself to be more or less unflappable. And here I was very much flapped.
I think part of what was up is that I've had a shift in my identity lately. When I first started down this road I went from "ok shut up you're cis" to "...maybe not 100% cis, but close enough that you've just got to suck it up and deal with it." I'd really written off the possibility that I might be better served transitioning. It just seemed too hard.
When it started seeming more and more tantalizing, I booked an appointment with a gender therapist. He asked if I'd imagined my future as a man. I said "no," but pretty much immediately realized that it was because I hadn't ALLOWED myself to do so. When I did I felt ... hopeful and happy and so much better. Identifying as male felt very right.
Buuuuuut when I let myself get excited about things, the old WTH ARE YOU DOING, YOU'RE GOING TO REGRET THIS came back with a passion. My pros/cons list pointed me towards top surgery, but I got worried that I wasn't putting enough weight on the fact that I was scared to come out. When all you can think about is what a freak you feel like, it pushes you back to the "cons" pretty quickly.
I went to the gym, I took that sudoku advice, I feel much better.
Well you can't be cis, perhaps what you mean is "just a guy" or something. But you can be whatever kind of guy you want to be. There are no particular rules. I am NOT at all maybe typical. I am still accepted as a guy in most situations though. I am not consistently thinking though, "I am a man". My self-image is very flex and I sometimes do even feel "female-ish" and sometimes more strongly male. All of this is okay, there's just no way you have to be.
Yes, but even I've had some freakouts-- not really since "the reveal" but it was a really interesting experience for me. I am as probably quite as no-drama as anybody. LOL!
--Jay
Quote from: captains on December 02, 2014, 05:24:41 PMPlus, I bind 4-5 days a week, and from what I can tell, literally no one has ever noticed. My womanhood has never been questioned (... unfortunately), I've never been told it looks weird or funny, and not even my closest friends seem to have picked up on the fact that my cup size has radically dropped over the last six months.
I HEAR YA ON THAT ONE :'(
As for the crisis...yeah, I am definitely having one of those right now.
Even though you're afraid to come out and then have to un-come out, I think you should tell your closest friends anyway (and/or your family, depending on your relationship with them). I've found this to be helpful in...making it more real, I guess. Making the transition a real thing that is actually happening, and seeing how that feels. You don't have to feign confidence when you come out; you can be honest, and say that you're questioning your gender, and that you would be honored if they'd support you during this journey.
For me it was a simple "I didn't want boobs". I did not care at the time if I was planning to transition all the way or not. I didn't want them so I got rid of them.
Do you want boobs? If No get top surgery, if yes don't get it.
QuoteI've retrofitted my Weirdness into Trans-ness because I find it more palatable than just accepting myself for who I am. Which honestly may happen! I feel like the possibility can't be discounted
Definitely something to thing about. And then maybe sleep on it, and then, think again.
Quote from: Susan522 on December 02, 2014, 11:13:05 PM
Definitely something to thing about. And then maybe sleep on it, and then, think again.
ABSOLUTELY. It's a really important consideration, and the first thing I told my therapist: that I didn't want to treat my arm pain when really I was having a heart attack. For what it's worth, none of you folks have to worry about me rushing this. I started questioning my gender (via drag and ''what if a genie gave me a cis male body'' fantasies) about five years ago, when I was 17. I've been quietly and neurotically identifying as trans for the last two years, which is about when my body dysphoria sharply escalated for some reason. And if I do decide to chop them titties off, the surgery won't be scheduled for a minimum of 6-7 months from now. So I've got many nights to sleep on it, thank god. I don't want to move too fast with something this big, yanno?
Quote from: aleon515 on December 02, 2014, 10:48:43 PM
Well you can't be cis, perhaps what you mean is "just a guy" or something. But you can be whatever kind of guy you want to be. There are no particular rules. I am NOT at all maybe typical. I am still accepted as a guy in most situations though. I am not consistently thinking though, "I am a man". My self-image is very flex and I sometimes do even feel "female-ish" and sometimes more strongly male. All of this is okay, there's just no way you have to be.
Yes, but even I've had some freakouts-- not really since "the reveal" but it was a really interesting experience for me. I am as probably quite as no-drama as anybody. LOL!
--Jay
Jay, I always find your posts so relieving. I feel like a lot of your gender experiences are the same as mine ... plus a lot of wisdom. I appreciate them a lot.
The thing that throws me off is that I have NO internal gender compass. I mean truly none at all. When people ask me if I "feel like a man" my usual reaction is ???. How should I know? If there is an Essential Feeling Of Maleness that's common to all men, I've got no idea what it could be. Of course, the same is true for me and womanhood: I couldn't tell you what femaleness felt like if you put a gun to my head. All I can do is use my body dysphoria like a bat uses echolocation. When my dysphoria bumps up against something (like my current situation), I try to avoid a crash and "fly the other way."
Quote from: Gothic Dandy Luca on December 02, 2014, 11:02:48 PM
I HEAR YA ON THAT ONE :'(
As for the crisis...yeah, I am definitely having one of those right now.
Even though you're afraid to come out and then have to un-come out, I think you should tell your closest friends anyway (and/or your family, depending on your relationship with them). I've found this to be helpful in...making it more real, I guess. Making the transition a real thing that is actually happening, and seeing how that feels. You don't have to feign confidence when you come out; you can be honest, and say that you're questioning your gender, and that you would be honored if they'd support you during this journey.
BRUH, I've been following along with your posts and my heart seriously goes out to you, man. I wish I had some advice, re your current sitch. Unfortunately, I've just got a boatload of empathy. You and I aren't dealing with the same things, but we are definitely on the same wavelength.
I have to be honest with all of you: I came into this process with a lot of internalized transphobia, and even years later, that colors my reactions. I tried so hard to be ''anything but trans'' that sometimes it's hard for me to shake the idea that: a) transition is too selfish to contemplate, and b) I am only "allowed" to consider it if I'm both actively suicidal and obviously trans from infancy. And that's despite the fact that my family and friends are very supportive of the other trans people in my life, and likely would be of me as well. Of course, I would
never think that about any other person/'s transition. So god knows why I hold it as a standard for myself.
But Luca, I think you're right. It's time for me to start talking with the people in my life about this. Centering my whole transition around ''how far can I go before I have to come out" is untenable.
Hi captains, I can understand some of what you are going through. I will say that it is great that you are thinking this through "just in case" you "wake up cis". I'm not on T and I still live as a female, and I'm getting my top surgery done first. Like you said, just in case I regret it, I can get boob implants, or just continue living life as a female. If it is the lady shape you are worried about, maybe you could see if the surgeon could offer some sort of liposuction along with top surgery if you qualify....or you could try to work out.
I agree with Dandy about telling your closest friends at the very least. Having people that you can actually open your mouth and talk to DOES help so much, especially if they are supportive.
Also, it is normal to have doubts. I still have doubts from time to time. As you said, you have 6-7 months at minimum, to think about this , and I am confident that you will make the right decision for your self.
Sorry I couldn't be of much help. I found a couple of posts here from past discussions I was in that may or may not help give you insight into your own decision:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,142568.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=146545.0
Quote from: captains on December 03, 2014, 12:39:45 AM
The thing that throws me off is that I have NO internal gender compass. I mean truly none at all. When people ask me if I "feel like a man" my usual reaction is ???. How should I know? If there is an Essential Feeling Of Maleness that's common to all men, I've got no idea what it could be. Of course, the same is true for me and womanhood: I couldn't tell you what femaleness felt like if you put a gun to my head. All I can do is use my body dysphoria like a bat uses echolocation. When my dysphoria bumps up against something (like my current situation), I try to avoid a crash and "fly the other way."
...
I have to be honest with all of you: I came into this process with a lot of internalized transphobia, and even years later, that colors my reactions. I tried so hard to be ''anything but trans'' that sometimes it's hard for me to shake the idea that: a) transition is too selfish to contemplate, and b) I am only "allowed" to consider it if I'm both actively suicidal and obviously trans from infancy.
I don't "feel like a man" either, and I've heard that this is pretty common with FTMs, so just know you're not alone. Although, I do know what womanhood feels like, and I don't feel that way anymore...I won't go into that confusing topic, haha. I think part of what's driving me to transition to male is that I want to find out what manhood feels like, too, because I'm somehow both.
And hell, I carry my very own "trans since infancy" card and STILL have a ton of denial and doubts to sift through. Isn't a little bit of doubt healthy, though? It means you (general "you") have a working brain that likes to weigh options instead of rushing right into something. ;)
I should take my own damn advice sometimes!
Quote from: King Malachite on December 03, 2014, 11:19:49 AM
Hi captains, I can understand some of what you are going through. I will say that it is great that you are thinking this through "just in case" you "wake up cis". I'm not on T and I still live as a female, and I'm getting my top surgery done first. Like you said, just in case I regret it, I can get boob implants, or just continue living life as a female. If it is the lady shape you are worried about, maybe you could see if the surgeon could offer some sort of liposuction along with top surgery if you qualify....or you could try to work out.
I agree with Dandy about telling your closest friends at the very least. Having people that you can actually open your mouth and talk to DOES help so much, especially if they are supportive.
Also, it is normal to have doubts. I still have doubts from time to time. As you said, you have 6-7 months at minimum, to think about this , and I am confident that you will make the right decision for your self.
Sorry I couldn't be of much help. I found a couple of posts here from past discussions I was in that may or may not help give you insight into your own decision:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,142568.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=146545.0
Hugely helpful, actually. (We've got similar goals and a similar timeline! It's kind of cool to see someone else say that they'd do bottom surgery first if they could. I thought I was alone in that.)
I'm saving for lipo/''mansculpture'' for sure. It's really bad. Like, a woman once stopped me on the street to compliment me on my ''birthing hips'' levels of bad. Yikes! :D
Quote from: captains on December 03, 2014, 12:39:45 AM
. . . All I can do is use my body dysphoria like a bat uses echolocation. When my dysphoria bumps up against something (like my current situation), I try to avoid a crash and "fly the other way." . . .
I like the echolocation analogy. I think in some ways it's easier to identify the things we don't like about how we are, than to identify the things we'd like to have or be. And while, usually, I think it's better to define yourself in terms of positives than negatives, in the case of surgery, it's probably safer to let the negatives dominate. At least for me, if I wanted male genitalia half as much as I
don't want a female chest. . . it would be bad.
As far as "retrofitting Wierdness into Trans-ness" (which is another awesome description), I wonder if you could mix that up with your admission of internalized transphobia and look at it? I've been facing some of the same stuff, and I was questioning if I was just using this "trans thing" as an excuse to run away from some other, scarier stuff in my life. My therapist poked me about it a bit, and I realized that there actually isn't anything scarier in my life. This is the Scariest and, in fact, the thing I've been running away
from.
I think one of the things internalized transphobia does is make us look for reasons for our gender dysphoria, other than being trans. Now, I do think it's important to explore all the possibilities. But why is it so hard to accept our experience of ourselves as real? Not saying that is what's going on with you, but it might be worth considering.
Quote from: captains on December 03, 2014, 12:39:45 AM
Jay, I always find your posts so relieving. I feel like a lot of your gender experiences are the same as mine ... plus a lot of wisdom. I appreciate them a lot.
The thing that throws me off is that I have NO internal gender compass. I mean truly none at all. When people ask me if I "feel like a man" my usual reaction is ???. How should I know? If there is an Essential Feeling Of Maleness that's common to all men, I've got no idea what it could be. Of course, the same is true for me and womanhood: I couldn't tell you what femaleness felt like if you put a gun to my head. All I can do is use my body dysphoria like a bat uses echolocation. When my dysphoria bumps up against something (like my current situation), I try to avoid a crash and "fly the other way."
Thanks man. I don't believe I have a much of a "gender compass". Kind of like that term. Do I "feel like a man"? What does this feel like? I have no clue. However, I feel more in sync with my body now since I have been transitioning. It's all I really care about tbh.
So maybe you are asking the wrong question. Try asking maybe how much you feel about your chesticles. Try that one out. Do they seem like they belong?
--Jay
I can't speak to how you'll feel about your body after surgery. Only you can surmise the outcome of that with any realistic hope of accuracy. I can say, however, that I agree with top surgery being a wise first step. I chose the same route, and would not have done it the other way. I hated my boobs far greater than I desired the effects of T. Now that I have them I appreciate them. I don't regret that either, but like you said, hairy boobs didn't appeal to me. Even if I had to have lived my whole life without T I would have chosen to have top surgery. I can't, however, say that the same applies to you.
Quote from: Bran on December 03, 2014, 04:40:43 PMI've been facing some of the same stuff, and I was questioning if I was just using this "trans thing" as an excuse to run away from some other, scarier stuff in my life. My therapist poked me about it a bit, and I realized that there actually isn't anything scarier in my life. This is the Scariest and, in fact, the thing I've been running away from.
Whoa, that last line shot right through me. I wonder if I have some internalized transphobia of my own to sort out.
Quote from: Gothic Dandy Luca on December 03, 2014, 11:14:09 PM
Whoa, that last line shot right through me. I wonder if I have some internalized transphobia of my own to sort out.
It got me in the same way.
Top surgery aside (I'm still sitting on it, ofc, but it feels really right), when it comes to my identity and where I'm going with this stuff, Bram nailed my last and biggest step. More and more, it's seeming like my situation is similar to his, and that being trans is my Big Scary Thing. I keep sifting through my life, looking for reasons why I am the way I am -- with the underlying thought that once I figure out the "real cause," I'll be able to solve my problems without taking "the easy way out [of being trans]." But as I wiggle and worry at my feelings, it's become increasingly clear that my brain had categorized my gender as the danger zone, not the escape route.
Idk. We shall see. This is why I have a gender therapist, I guess.
Jeez, what an introspective thread. When I first posted, I figured the responses would be more along the lines of "don't get surgery before t" and not like a journey into my genderpsyche. But I love you guys for it, I really do.
The reason you won't hear any "don't get surgery before T" is it's not a common suggestion anymore. I know at one time. But I've even heard if you are going on T (I have no idea for you) that it doesn't matter much and that most surgeons don't even care anymore, do just fine without the T. Figuring out who the heck you are, might be the more important challenge?
Now that I've adjusted to being trans, it's not so big a thing anymore. I can't deny it once was and all. I still maintain the big thing is what you want with your body and if chesticles are what you want. You could even not identify with being trans and still have top surgery or you could be somewhat trans, or how ever you want to say it, but yes it does happen all the time. You could even be a butch lesbian, doesn't matter. I can tell you that I am just about the least conscious man of all time. I believe my gender is in between somehow. I am more comfortable in a "male package", so to speak. I like being referred to as he, him, Jay, etc. vs ma'am, she, my ex-female name. I think this is all about "gender psyche" and not too much re: top surgery per se. :)
Therapy might be very helpful to work out all that stuff. I mean it was for me.
--Jay
Quote from: captains on December 04, 2014, 12:43:01 AM
It got me in the same way.
Top surgery aside (I'm still sitting on it, ofc, but it feels really right), when it comes to my identity and where I'm going with this stuff, Bram nailed my last and biggest step. More and more, it's seeming like my situation is similar to his, and that being trans is my Big Scary Thing. I keep sifting through my life, looking for reasons why I am the way I am -- with the underlying thought that once I figure out the "real cause," I'll be able to solve my problems without taking "the easy way out [of being trans]." But as I wiggle and worry at my feelings, it's become increasingly clear that my brain had categorized my gender as the danger zone, not the escape route.
Idk. We shall see. This is why I have a gender therapist, I guess.
Jeez, what an introspective thread. When I first posted, I figured the responses would be more along the lines of "don't get surgery before t" and not like a journey into my genderpsyche. But I love you guys for it, I really do.
Quote from: aleon515 on December 04, 2014, 01:09:23 AM
. . . You could even not identify with being trans and still have top surgery or you could be somewhat trans, or how ever you want to say it, but yes it does happen all the time. You could even be a butch lesbian, doesn't matter. . .
I agree actually-- my brain took me on a bit of a tangent and I shared it :-). For deciding on top surgery, the question that really matters is: do you want top surgery? If the answer's yes, and you're relatively confident it's a permanent thing, then going for it is reasonable no matter what your gender identitification is. You can still present as female after top surgery. Something irrevocable has changed about your body, but nothing permanent has happened to your public presentation. Top surgery is actually way less significant than T in that way (facial hair and a deep voice are harder to change back).
Transition, or not, can be broken down into separate events. If having breasts is uncomfortable, embarrassing, prevents you from going about your normal activities, is a source of depression, or just does not feel like "you", then consider having surgery. Any other decisions you may or may not make regarding body, gender, transition, hormones, do not have to be a part of this decision. I think it will become clear to you in time, though I know it can really get swirling in your head :o I have absolutely no regrets about my chest surgery, though I hated those chesticles since the very sad day they appeared...
captains, I went back and forth for 15 years about top surgery. Even though I have never liked my breasts, was disgusted at them being touched sexually, etc., I still worried I would regret it (or that people would be able to tell...even though I have been binding for 15 years I was still worried).
It was the best decision I ever made. I didn't start taking T until recently and my top surgery was a year ago. You are right that people won't notice at all, especially with the size you are saying you are. If you want to live as female for the rest of your life it will not be a problem.
NOW, when I am saying the above I am assuming that you wear all male clothing (or at least the top part). I can't imagine it wouldn't be noticeable in women's clothes.
I went on T in September, that took me 10 years of decision making and still I started at very low dose (needed to make sure it was the right thing).
Like you said, you can always get breast implants if you decide it was the wrong choice. I tell myself I can always get voice feminization surgery from Yeson (like the ladies do), if I made a wrong choice with T. Hey, whatever works to get me over the line! I couldn't stand the "wondering" anymore when it came to top surgery and then the same thing happened with T.
I honestly think that you should try t and see if you don't feel, within two months, how amazing your emotional stability can become. It makes you feel "right". And honestly you will begin to feel grounded, that is, if it's where you are truly meant to be.
Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk
Well not sure you should go thru taking T and all if you think that at some point you would want your trachea shaved. Most trans women do NOT get this done (actually not even sure I know anyone who's had it). It's risky surgery and expensive. OTOH, having a deep voice is not the be all of being read as male. I am baritone (perhaps a bit lower) and I am, even now, sometimes read as being female. I mean it's not common but still. Breast implants are a more easy type thing. Perhaps not entirely fun but certainly not a dangerous surgery generally.
The three irreversible (relatively) things on T are voice, clitoral enlargement, and facial hair. I believe you should think of these three things as irreversible. But of course, they take time to get. You don't wake up one morning as a baritone. A low gradual dose is an option.
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on December 05, 2014, 09:15:17 PM
Well not sure you should go thru taking T and all if you think that at some point you would want your trachea shaved. Most trans women do NOT get this done (actually not even sure I know anyone who's had it). It's risky surgery and expensive. OTOH, having a deep voice is not the be all of being read as male. I am baritone (perhaps a bit lower) and I am, even now, sometimes read as being female. I mean it's not common but still. Breast implants are a more easy type thing. Perhaps not entirely fun but certainly not a dangerous surgery generally.
The three irreversible (relatively) things on T are voice, clitoral enlargement, and facial hair. I believe you should think of these three things as irreversible. But of course, they take time to get. You don't wake up one morning as a baritone. A low gradual dose is an option.
--Jay
Hey, Jay. I was actually teasing about voice feminization surgery (I wasn't talking trach shave?). I started T with my eyes wide open about the lack of reversibility of my voice. Hence the 10 year decision making process (afraid I would decide it was the wrong choice and hard to go back after voice drop). I was just trying to get across the point that I am such an indecisive person that even when the right choice is clear, I still have to trick myself into things.
That's good, I wouldn't THINK you would think that. But who knows. Yikes trach shave is scary stuff. I think there are the three things that are pretty irreversible. Obviously of the three the voice and facial hair are the most problematic if you end up deciding otherwise. I dont' think clit lengthening is as problematic.
--Jay
Quote from: Brett on December 06, 2014, 08:13:32 PM
Hey, Jay. I was actually teasing about voice feminization surgery (I wasn't talking trach shave?). I started T with my eyes wide open about the lack of reversibility of my voice. Hence the 10 year decision making process (afraid I would decide it was the wrong choice and hard to go back after voice drop). I was just trying to get across the point that I am such an indecisive person that even when the right choice is clear, I still have to trick myself into things.
You're right in terms of the big three: voice, hair, growth. Hair will get softer, grow more slowly and the hair shaft thinner I understand, the longer you are off the T.
Quote from: aleon515 on December 07, 2014, 03:33:01 PM
That's good, I wouldn't THINK you would think that. But who knows. Yikes trach shave is scary stuff. I think there are the three things that are pretty irreversible. Obviously of the three the voice and facial hair are the most problematic if you end up deciding otherwise. I dont' think clit lengthening is as problematic.
--Jay
I have no special insight here, just wanted to post that I so understand where you're coming from. I've been on the non-binary boards and occasionally lurk on the FTM boards, asking myself where I really belong. For me it's really the difference between identity and presentation. At my age, I have no intention of fully transitioning. But, I really, really, really want top surgery. Like I'd do it tomorrow if I could. But, I don't care about pronouns. I know who I am. T is unlikely for a variety of reasons, though it does sound appealing. Anyway, I just wanted to offer a note of support that a) I think it's beneficial to really reflect on things, and b) you're not alone! Definitely not alone.
Quote from: aleon515 on December 04, 2014, 01:09:23 AM
You could even not identify with being trans and still have top surgery or you could be somewhat trans, or how ever you want to say it, but yes it does happen all the time.
--Jay
Did that! Still don't identify as trans either. I was worried I might regret it, but even with as challenging as the actual surgery was for me and the reality of chest scars, I have absolutely no regret. The convincing moment for me was trying for a week to leave the house without a binder on, and finding that I just couldn't do it.
Hey, all.
First off, I wanted to thank you guys for all your empathy and support. Honestly, just hearing people say ''I get where you're coming from!'' and ''You're not alone!'' has meant the world to me these last few weeks. Transition can be an isolating process, and I'd been feeling like I didn't belong anywhere, amongst anyone. This whole thread was so heartening, I can't even describe it.
Quick update: as you can see from my fancy new ticker, I did make a few calls. I spoke to three different surgeons, and have scheduled some consultations. Garramone's office has been the most consistently professional and easy to reach, and that's really won me over, so I might be joining the clone ranks soon. A very exciting thought.
I wouldn't say my plans are set in stone. I still have a lot to think about. But after waking up choking and gasping in the night because I'd fallen asleep in my binder, I felt pretty strongly that something had to give. I might be able to live with my chest as is, but the thought of doing more than just tolerating my body and of living without the low-key suffering that's daily binding -- that sounds more appealing every day.