The term really doesn't bother me, I think if the term were to become more positive and accepting it would benefit the reality of our state of being.
I voted irrelevant because it's a term other people use about me. Not how I view myself. It's a label people attribute to me to try to understand what I'm going through. And it doesn't really matter to me, honestly. I know how I see myself and that takes priority in my mind. For me it's a description of a condition, not a person.
I am just a woman... I was a transwoman only when I was transitioning... I am done, I am a woman!
I view it more as compatible with the reality of how I am. It accurately describes the fact that despite being a woman, I was born male.
I voted yes, I've found it the to be the term that I use most when describing what I'm going through to people.
My view is that my being transgendered is really just a stepping stone into womanhood. I know technically I am a transgendered person but it is as if my being trans is like the cucoon stage before the butterfly.
My doc wrote his referral to my endo stating "doesn't identify as transgender"
Well...whatever, I'm Still the same person to him with a female partner and kids..I'm just me.going through life from a to b.
Interesting thread... Trans means moving from something to something, so technically if we were born a genetic male, or female, but are wired for the opposite sex, then through the path to get to the right genetic physical state we chose, we are transgender'ing from one to the other.
So personally it's a description of a journey, not a person or sexual state... So I agree with Danielle and Peky... However at this point in time I am transgender'ing and therefore OK, will I be OK once there? ...Can't answer that yet, certainly won't deny the journey, but would prefer to be known as a women...
Quote from: katrinaw on December 16, 2014, 07:25:39 AMSo personally it's a description of a journey, not a person or sexual state...
I'm the exact opposite; to me, it's a destination, not a journey. No matter what, I'll always be transgender, even if (miraculously) I end up passing.
It's also a destination I arrived at long ago when I realized - still physically 100% male - that there was something deeply wrong. Consider it like getting off a plane in a foreign country for the first time. I'm "there" the moment I land, still utterly lost, but there's so much to explore outside and many enjoyable years, even a lifetime, to be had settling in this new place.
I used to fret over not being a "real girl". These days I don't care and happily identify as trans (provided it's in the context of a subset of women in general, and not a completely separate gender). I'm getting to where I'm comfortable with my body, my therapist and the HRT have done wonders for my acceptance of who I am mentally, and being labelled as transgender (and using that label to describe myself) is something I'm proud of in a strange kind of way. It's a personal struggle I'm proud to have overcome. I don't think it'll detract too much from being part of the general "girl" club for all intents and purposes when it comes to living a normal female life - I really have no intention of spending my time trying to infiltrate catty groups of women who would happily shun me because they just can't accept me as female. There's countless females (and males) who accept me for who I really am - female, just a slightly more unusual one - and it's those individuals who I'll spend my time making friends with.
I guess for me it's mostly probably I think just the fact that I'm 63 years old and just don't give
two &&&&& about being seen as transgender. Maybe if I had been able to start the journey at 18 it might be different , but when the years pass by enough you tend not to give a $$$$ about how your viewed. I don't have to worry about family, husbands , wives , children , job or what ever so I'm in a different place then most.
I often use the comparison of my nationality to my gender, because I was not born physically as either one that I wanted.
I am a naturalized US citizen. This means that I had to take a test, submit myself to testing (background checks, medical etc) live in the USA for 30 months and swear an oath. Symbolically it's like transitioning. Where I am now I just prefer to be referred to as a US citizen. Naturalization is my past and how I got here. Citizenship is what I have and will have for life. But somehow deep at heart I have always admired American values and the way of life here. Now I get to live them, and for the most part I am happy. I cannot run for President, and while this makes me incomplete to me it does not make me a citizen any less than someone who was born here.
Same thing with being transgender. I am changing my hormones and undergoing real life experience. I may optionally have surgeries to bring my physical presentation in line with my gender. At the end of it I will be a woman. Actually I am one on the inside, I will be one on the outside.
So tansgender is a process for me. A transition is a phase. It may take a long time but at some point I have crossed the boundary. When that is, who knows. But at that point, being transgender will be my past.
I don't like the term because of the base of the word being gender. My issues were more biological and also somewhat with my role in life, gender really isn't a big deal for me. I am whatever amt of masculinity and femininity I am, and it's fine. Acting like a feminine male never brought any relief to dysphoria.
However, I get that this term is winning and, whatever, it's fine.
I do think of myself in terms of being a woman, and I do not want to be seen as a trans woman while society deems that a different category. Though I do not have shame about my history.
Transgender works for me now and now is all i really have. The past is a memory and the future a dream ;)
The further along that I go in "transition," the more and more I realize that I never really changed or transitioned at all.
I'm still EXACTLY the same person. The only thing that "transitioned" is how others perceive me, and that I have a body that I don't (completely) hate anymore.
The term "transgender" to me somehow implies that I actually was the other gender in the first place, and that somehow I changed, when in reality I'm the same woman that I always was, it's just that now finally other people can see it too, and my body is more congruent with my pre-set mental programming, instead of everything constantly wrongfully forcing masculinity on me.
It's sort of like how I *have* OCD but am not *an OCD,* heheh.
The term "transgender" is perfectly acceptable to me. I view myself differently than a lot of people do. Sometimes I say that I was born of "mixed gender"--i.e., physically male but psychologically/spiritually female. Sometimes I describe myself as "a female soul born into a male body."
In a way I think the term "transgender" is almost meaningless because it means such different things to different people. But I prefer to say "transgender" rather than "mixed gender", and if somebody wants to know what "transgender" means, I'll tell them what it means to me and will point out that it will mean something different to other people.
But all in all what I will insist on is that I'm a female soul, and my soul very much predominates over my body, which in a sense I regard as irrelevant to what I am. Regardless of what my body was/is/will be, I will always be a female soul.
I like the idea that being transgender is a journey towards womanhood. It's a process to get the outside (and people's perceptions of me) to match my inside.
However, I do not like the term transsexual. I know that's what I am technically speaking. But it seems to have a connotation associated with sexuality, similar to homosexual, bisexual, etc. And that's just not what this is about for me at all. So I very much prefer the term transgender.
No, not at all. If someone specifically asks me, like if I was being asked for ID, I would say I'm a transsexual. I think they'd get the woman part. I don't identify with, or very much like, transgender. It doesn't fit me at all. I don't really discuss it much.
Quote from: Skeptoid on December 16, 2014, 01:16:07 PM
It's sort of like how I *have* OCD but am not *an OCD,* heheh.
I'm with you on this.
And if I have to use a term I very much prefer trans woman to anything else. Trans being an adjective, not a noun.
Very close to you Stephanie in numerology... Hence why I need to take the journey as soon as possible... Probably when I get over the line, I may not give a stuff too :laugh:
Feel my hormones are more or less right, can probably wing it in passing (except voice)... so its this coming year as long as I get an income stream ;)
L Katy
yes, winging it
Hi.
Has no meaning at all to my friends or those who i interact with over 1500 people and with in our groups as i never changed from male to female or female to male the context wont work ,
and being well known allso means my history is well known because they know how i was born , so did i change or how did i change,I have grown into a woman as most females do with in the boundrys of what it is to be an intersexed female .it works for some of us and has for myself .
...noeleena...
I absolutely loathe the term "transgender" or "transsexual" and only use those terms for clarification purposes. I also understand that it is an ascribed status I can never escape, but that does not mean I have to like it. Furthermore, subjectively, I am not a transgender or a transsexual; what I am is a woman so using those terms in reference to me has no real purpose outside of trying to clarify my birth defects to ignorant people. I was born a girl that required surgical and hormonal interjection to correct my birth defects...nothing more.
If you voted absolutely not then why are you here. Because whether you admit it or not, no matter if you like it or don't; you are Transgender. You cross the gender boundries. Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.
Quote from: Susan on December 17, 2014, 04:49:40 AM
Because whether you admit it or not, no matter if you like it or don't; you are Transgender. You cross the gender boundries. Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason.
This is pretty much the way I see myself, which is why I don't object to the term "transgender". I see it as a term for someone like me who "crosses the gender boundaries", who is "gender non-conforming" in some way. I don't see crossing the gender boundaries as a negative thing. It's simply my nature. So when I use the term, that's what I mean by it. I do find it handy to have a name for what I am, even though that name often requires a lot of explaining to people who don't know anything about "gender non-conforming" people.
I know the term 'transsexual' is disliked by a lot of people but I do think that best describes what I am (besides 'woman'). It is a medical term, and it is the term I grew up reading - as such I am not offended by it. I am also 'transgender' though of course. In the same sort of vein, I'm a primate, but I'm also member of the species homo sapiens! :-) I'm sure there's a disanalogy there somewhere, but oh well.
I see myself as transgender first, having presented male for over 50 years and preferring to present as female. Ultimately I am neither male nor female and yet both. For me, the only reason to do otherwise is shame and fear and I reject both of those. That being said, I don't go around wearing a sign saying I'm bisexual, either. I freely admit I'm transgender when appropriate, but otherwise mind my own business.
Quote from: theadanielle on December 17, 2014, 07:04:16 AM
In the same sort of vein, I'm a primate, but I'm also member of the species homo sapiens! :-)
Me, too!!! And I thought I was the only one!! All my life I've felt like such a freak. I didn't know there was somebody else out there just like me.
actually I prefer the term pre op bi-trans MTF hominid (POBTMTFH)
Quote from: Susan on December 17, 2014, 04:49:40 AM
If you voted absolutely not then why are you here. Because whether you admit it or not, no matter if you like it or don't; you are Transgender. You cross the gender boundries. Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.
Like I said, it's an ascribed status one can never escape from irrespective if the person likes it or not. The fact that I am a transsexual will continue to haunt me like death. However, I am free to dislike the terminology and despise having it used towards me. Furthermore, I am here to engage in random conversation about transsexual related issues.
I have been transgender since before I was born and I will be transgender until the day I die, whether I like it or not. My brain is essentially female and my body is finally a work in progress. Because I am now changing my body to align with my brain, I am also a transsexual. I am not ashamed of it, nor do I really care what any individual thinks of me because I took charge of my own life instead of letting myself die slowly. Society in general may currently have a problem with transgender people, but I am here to help fix this problem by showing everyone that I am just a regular human being who is doing her best to deal with the challenges she was dealt and succeeding. People's minds can change, and if I can serve as a rectocranial extractor for some of them, all the better.
I am transgender. I am transsexual. I am a woman. If you have a problem with that, tough. You don't get to come to my party.
I do not really like it for me , to me its a shortcut to say i was born in the wrong body , or issues realted to it , and i prefer the long way in general if i m to talk of it , and i dont really like this word to put on me , i prefer some others , i prefer girl or woman , or other stuff.
Quote from: Jill F on December 17, 2014, 08:50:41 PM
I have been transgender since before I was born and I will be transgender until the day I die, whether I like it or not. My brain is essentially female and my body is finally a work in progress. Because I am now changing my body to align with my brain, I am also a transsexual. I am not ashamed of it, nor do I really care what any individual thinks of me because I took charge of my own life instead of letting myself die slowly. Society in general may currently have a problem with transgender people, but I am here to help fix this problem by showing everyone that I am just a regular human being who is doing her best to deal with the challenges she was dealt and succeeding. People's minds can change, and if I can serve as a rectocranial extractor for some of them, all the better.
I am transgender. I am transsexual. I am a woman. If you have a problem with that, tough. You don't get to come to my party.
Clear, declarative and, as always, funny! Thanks Jill, you rock!
Quote from: Tessa James on December 17, 2014, 10:33:39 PM
Clear, declarative and, as always, funny! Thanks Jill, you rock!
Thank you, Tessa. You totally rock too. :-*
I use the term only because it's less a mouthful than "Incorrectly Assigned Male at Birth" and because Intersexed tends to be met with blank looks. "Transgender" is a known variable to a lot of people and term by which we're becoming more visible so I'll use it as I need to.
Joanna Dark has been removed from the site under the no more games policy. If you do not like it here you should leave. Her post made it quite clear she did not want to be here any longer.
She seemed to take offense that Intersexual was included in the transgender Umbrella Term. She feels that the proper term is intersex which is indeed the proper term for the condition; but the proper term for one who is intersex is intersexual. I guess she feels that anything that has the word sexual on the end is somehow dirty and tawdry. Here is the definition of the term.
QuoteIntersexual
in·ter·sex·u·al
ˌin(t)ərˈsekSH(əw)əl/
adjective
adjective: intersexual; adjective: inter-sexual
1.
existing or occurring between the sexes.
"intersexual selection, or mate choice, was, to Darwin, the job of females"
2.
relating to or having the condition of being intermediate between male and female.
As you can see there's nothing dirty going on.
That's the only point in her screed that I feel warrants a response.
Let me make it quite clear your (Generic) continued use of this web site requires that while here you accept the terms as defined and stated in the standard terms and definition post in the site policy section of this web site. You can disagree with the terms all you like, off of my site. If you do it on my site I will remove your access to it.
We didn't start out with terms and definitions, we created them to put an end to exclusionists who advocated the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term, and those who suggested or claimed that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more or less legitimate, deserving, or real than any others.
I will enforce that on this site.
Quote from: Susan on December 18, 2014, 10:52:08 AM
Joanna Dark has been removed from the site under the no more games policy. If you do not like it here you should leave. Her post made it quite clear she did not want to be here any longer.
What?? May I ask what happened?
Edit: also I would like to ask where we can view and read policy. It is not very transparent. I mean no offense though.
I'm also curious about the "no more games" policy. I don't see it in TOS and a site search shows up nothing. Additionally I don't understand what game was being played. Is this something to do with Minecraft?
Quote from: cathyrains on December 18, 2014, 11:04:13 AM
I'm also curious about the "no more games" policy. I don't see it in TOS and a site search shows up nothing. Additionally I don't understand what game was being played. Is this something to do with Minecraft?
In Announcements
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,178912.msg1579471.html#msg1579471
First post in topic
Quote from: Susan on December 17, 2014, 04:49:40 AM
If you voted absolutely not then why are you here.
I do not like the term transgender either, but I bob in and out of this site to answer people's questions about specific areas of which I have knowledge.
Quote from: Susan on December 17, 2014, 04:49:40 AM
Because whether you admit it or not, no matter if you like it or don't; you are Transgender. You cross the gender boundries. Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.
I understand the definition, but it does not describe how I view myself. My lack of identification with it has nothing to do on whether I can help others or not.
Quote from: Auroramarianna on December 18, 2014, 10:56:25 AM
Edit: also I would like to ask where we can view and read policy. It is not very transparent. I mean no offense though.
We have an entire forum dedicated to it.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,492.0.html
I moved the no more games post to the site policy board, it was in the announcements forum which also can contain site policy.
This was Joanna's goodbye post which the moderation staff properly removed.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on December 18, 2014, 09:12:34 AM
The term intersex is not under the transgender umbrella. It's not intersexual, either. It's just intersex woman/man. I'm intersex. There's no suffix. Not an intersexed. Not an intersexual. Most intersex people don't even transition. Also, just cause you have money and a site doesn't make you the arbitrator of all things trans.
Also, about your umbrella, which I feel has bent arms and is all twisted: maybe some people (transsexuals) take exception to being called ->-bleeped-<-s as if their problems were some fetish. Ban me. Neg me twice. Whatevs. But you're wrong. I speak for myself but I bet there's plenty who agree. Why am I at this site? Hmm, I ran a site once and for a so-called inclusive place, that's a strange question. But I'm a millenial so maybe I'm just some self-absorbed twat.
BTW, because people don't like a term they should leave? This attitude is why 75 percent of the good posters left. Posters with something to offer, real experience. I mean I'm two years on HRT almost and I'm prolly one of the longest ones who posts on the reg.
She has a high opinion of herself.
Being part of the Transgender umbrella term does not make you a ->-bleeped-<-. Just like being a part of the primate group does not make you a monkey.
Quote from: stephaniec on December 15, 2014, 06:35:42 PM
The term really doesn't bother me, I think if the term were to become more positive and accepting it would benefit the reality of our state of being.
Doesn't bother me...in fact I "own" it. 8)
Quote from: Beth Andrea on December 18, 2014, 11:39:42 AM
Doesn't bother me...in fact I "own" it. 8)
I think owning it is a very good way to view it
Quote from: Susan on December 18, 2014, 11:15:31 AM
Being part of the Transgender umbrella term does not make you a ->-bleeped-<-. Just like being a part of the primate group does not make you a monkey.
Could not have put it better myself.
Oddly enough, I'm eating a banana right now.
Quote from: Jill F on December 18, 2014, 01:31:01 PM
Could not have put it better myself.
Oddly enough, I'm eating a banana right now.
wasn't there a song ' hey, hey we're the monkeys '
I can't seem to find the vote option anywhere... My browser may be blocking it, but I doubt it :/
Anywho....
I guess the word 'transgender' makes sense, I mean if it wasn't for such a word we wouldn't have been able to search and find each other to talk about this topic in first place right?
But no.
I am a woman... Fullstop. The problem is that many people (Especially where I live, and most of my friends unfortunately ) See transgender as a noun, not a verb... And as a gender in itself,.. And to that I do not feel identified... I'm a woman who happens to be transgender, but I'm not a transgender.
I don't know what happen to the vote option either , it happens to me all the time
I removed the vote. Came close to removing the entire topic.
I am a woman, I am also transgender. I was born with male genitals. I am a transsexual and always will be. Nothing I do will ever change those facts. But none of those facts make me any less of a woman.
Well, file this under posts of the type I don't usually make anymore. But trans* language is a funny thing. It changes so fast that even trans* people don't agree on what it is. A couple of years ago, I was a guest speaker at the Transgender Education Association meeting. I was the education for the evening. But I arrived early and before the meeting started, one if the attendees, who had no clue who I was or why I was there, decided to explain to me what the words "transgender" and "transsexual" meant. According to this person, "a transgender" is a person who likes to dress in opposite sex clothing now and then whereas a transsexual is someone who desires to change their body.
GLAAD will tell you that "transgender" is an umbrella term that encompasses anyone whose gender identity and/or gender expression differs from their gender assigned at birth. Many, if not most dictionaries, will tell you that transgender refers to someone born one sex, but identifying as the opposite. Some will say transgender and trassexual mean exactly the same thing. Merriam-Webster has a definition on their website that seems to say only nonbinary people are transgender. All of this, of course, is a way of saying that language around trans* issues is messy, confusing, and not always universally understood by everyone in the same way.
I don't know that I've ever heard anyone say that intersex is a type of transgender identity. You do encounter quite a few intersex people in the trans* community which may not be surprising considering the number of intersex people who have ambiguous genitals that get "fixed" by being assigned to make or female when they are born. Sometimes the "fixer" gets it wrong.
There are people out there who identify as intersex, who also identify as trans* (I am one). But there are also a lot of intersex people who are fine with whatever gender they were assigned to at birth who don't consider themselves trans* at all.
We all can have many identities outside of trans*ness. For example, if you spell me out, then I would identify as an intersex biologically androgynous female identified asexual heterosexual leaning biromantic person. But the intersex is an identity I have that is separate from the trans*. It's an additional thing (that I don't much like to talk about). I would hope others will accept and embrace me as a trans* person . . . who is other things as well. One of those other things being intersex.
I've never been tested , but I have some serious suspicion that I'm intersex in some way.
Quote from: stephaniec on December 18, 2014, 05:13:19 PM
I've never been tested , but I have some serious suspicion that I'm intersex in some way.
There are some who would say that being transgender is, by definition, a form of intersex. I suppose it makes some sense. Think about the old way of expressing it as a man's mind in a woman's body or vice versa. If that's actually true, then one could make a very good argument that all trans* people are intersex even if not all intersex people are trans*.
For more on this subject, see above under trans* language being a messy, funny thing that everyone tends to use differently. :)
I am whatever I decide to call myself. Nobody dictates how I see myself but me. I don't like either label and do not like it when people use it in reference to me. That's how I roll....
The more I experience HRT the realization is that estrogen is such a better fit for who I am . It really is so incredibly heartbreaking I couldn't of been helped so much sooner but you move on. In a sense all these labels are really irrelevant because I'm just trying to optimize what's left of my time on this planet. I've never ever fit the male mold and truly I am female through all the tears of my existence. My birth is here and now. I have been me all along and that won't change. It just feels so good to be on the right path.
Quote from: stephaniec on December 15, 2014, 06:35:42 PM
The term really doesn't bother me, I think if the term were to become more positive and accepting it would benefit the reality of our state of being.
Consider myself third gender (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender), what goes on here representative NOT is instead much more comfortable for me!!
QuoteLike the hijra, the third gender is in many cultures made up of individuals considered male at the time of birth who take on a feminine gender role or sexual role. In cultures that have not taken on Western heteronormativity, they are usually seen as acceptable sexual partners for male-identifying individuals as long as the latter always maintain the "active" role.
I prefer the term transgender or transgender female at this point. Eventually, I will prefer to drop the transgender part, but I don't think I will be quite comfortable with that until I have at least mostly transitioned.
Since I do plan to go the SRS route, I suppose that makes me (or will make me) transsexual. However accurate and useful the term may be, I hate the word. It just puts more emphasis on the "sexual" than I'm comfortable with. Yes, of course, I know that "sexual" isn't a bad word, but there's a real risk that people will misinterpret that. For me, my dysphoria and discomfort is mostly to do with my gender and presentation, not with sex. When I say I'm transgender, I feel like that captures it much more accurately (even if it's technically incorrect as clinical jargon). But I don't expect this to ever be an issue for me. I would be really surprised if I came out to someone as a transgender female and they got the wrong idea.
Stretching to topic a little, at present I have a little trouble with calling myself a "woman." I think this is a combination of still inhabiting an obviously male body and simply needing more time to fully internalize the reality of finally accepting this about myself. When I "search my feelings, I know it to be true," but it still seems just a bit unreal.
I am fine with it.
I know many of us would prefer to be seen as their preferred gender, and its something I wrestled with for a while, too.
Now though, I figure if I get close to another person, and they somehow *can't* pick me, I will have to tell them I am trans anyway.
I just can't get close to somebody with a skeleton in my closest. Take me as I am, or not at all!
( edit: this is why I have my forum gender set to 'androgyne'. Yes, I feel female and live as one, but I don't feel right saying I 'am' female. I'm actually much more comfortable saying I am trans ... )
I don't know ,but at this stage I feel more trans, maybe in the future that will change I don't know
I see myself as transgender because I am not really a man anymore but I am not a woman yet either. When I get there, I will be woman, or at least that will be how I present and advertise myself. Currently I am not offended by any term targeted to myself for my in between state but if asked I say transgender or transwoman.
It's rather hard really to describe this to loved ones. Most I have talked to lump the entire T category into one lump. I had to explain that no, I am not a drag queen. No I don't now like boys. No, this isn't to turn me on as a fetish. No, this is not recent but something I have fought with my entire life. I bet a good thread would be on the questions we have been asked.
From a medical basis, I suppose there should be a name used to describe the difference between our brain and our chromosomes. GID sounds like a mental problem and if you are like me you identify more with having a physical problem where my body doesn't match my mind. It would be nice if there was a non-transitional word and non-mental disorder phrase that one could use with doctors or those that need to know you were born with a different body.
I consider myself female -- not yet a woman, because muliebrity is a character one matures into, and involves social norms, expectations, and presentation.
I accept the title of transgender because that is the category that I must be placed in to be understood, and evaluated by society. It is my stratum, not my identity.
I see trans-gender and trans-sexual as good terms to accurately describe those who are changing or crossing over gender roles, (societal conventions) and, or changing / crossing from one sex (genitals), to another.
I think these terms have different meanings, describing or referring to different and distinct yet related conditions, those conditions being gender role as opposed to physical sex.
I can see where some people born with missing or ambiguous genitalia (intersex), might object to be labeled against their will as transgender or trans*. It seems apparent to me at least that their issue has nothing to do with gender, but rather with their ambiguous sex, except perhaps that said sexual ambiguity would (could), make it more difficult to find a comfortable gender role or presentation.