I was sitting in the break room at work during lunch today, sharing a table with some of my coworkers in my training class. One woman asks another if she had seen the Facebook post of a mutual acquaintance of theirs. Apparently this acquaintance had posted a coming out statement announcing that they were transitioning from male to female accompanied with a picture dressed in woman's clothing. I tensed up, fearing the worst, having no clue where this conversation was going to land. They chatted, saying things that to them seem supportive and open minded, but were just clumsy. Things like "I support people like that" and "what ever makes him happy". I think they definitely had good intentions but were clueless on how to express them. As I sat there, my eyes shifting back and forth between them, the heat raising up the back of my neck, thinking "don't these two realize that there is a transexual woman sitting between them?"
This was a very odd situation. I was sure that if I had said anything at all I would have outed myself to those who didn't know I was transexual. Then I thought "how could they not know?" I'm not very feminine looking and I have a very deep voice, like James Earl Jones deep. I have this very strange mixture of emotions right now, I'm worried that I will be outed, amazed that they don't realize, and satisfied that I have managed to properly socialize myself as a woman despite being raised as a male.
Maybe they were trying to beat around the bush that they know and that they invite you to talk and be open about it?? Or maybe they just don't notice or maybe you are just too hard on yourself?
Allison, it is nice to be accepted. It sounds like they were trying to discuss the subject with little perspective and knowledge.
I have had several times at work when I was confronted by well meaning ignorance. I struggle to not say something then I just do. I say something to not out myself but educate them
Hi Alisonsteph
Inclined to agree with Michaela here, maybe they were fishing and testing? (you weren't the mutual acquaintance then?)
It is tough though I have been in those discussions in the past, basically I flick it back and test there comments, usually its a level of ignorance when Transgendered discussions occur.... simply not sure anyone actually has a strong opinion on the subject, except the obvious bigots.
L Katy
Quote from: katrinaw on December 16, 2014, 10:54:28 PM
Hi Alisonsteph
Inclined to agree with Michaela here, maybe they were fishing and testing? (you weren't the mutual acquaintance then?)
It is tough though I have been in those discussions in the past, basically I flick it back and test there comments, usually its a level of ignorance when Transgendered discussions occur.... simply not sure anyone actually has a strong opinion on the subject, except the obvious bigots.
L Katy
The mutual acquaintance they spoke of was a person they had worked with at a previous job. Of the 16 people in my training class 8 of them worked for the same company at one point of another in the past. The one who initiated the conversation acted as she was half expecting it, the other seemed shocked, yet was the one who said "I support people like that" as they looked at pictures of the is person on Facebook.
Michaela may be right, I probably am being too hard on myself. When I look in the mirror I still see the same person I alway have but with longer hair and a little less self hatred. I recently sent a friend request to an old friend whom I have known for well over 25 years I had found on Facebook and he didn't recognize me and we had seen each other as recently as two years ago.
I have been in situations like this before like back when I was in the earlier stages of transitioning a person might consider me as a male even though I clearly have boobs and are wearing womens clothes and then talk to be like one of the bro's. They would down talk things that women do or are like but not realise that they are putting me down along with those other women. Then thinks I would agree with them. Humph!
Some people seem to just assume that their basic knowledge about others in our situation is all there is to it.
Interesting situation. I was at a Xmas staff BBQ on Saturday and met two women who I hadn't met before, they were very friendly and very nice and took pains to tell me how they had defended me from bigot comments. I felt a bit odd, OK I'm a well known transgender woman, bigots don't bother me a bit, but I was little taken aback that their first comments to me was to acknowledge my transgender status and how much they accepted me.
I think they meant well, but I felt slightly offended that the first thing they wanted to discuss with me was my gender status. Why not say 'Wow, Cindy, nice to meet you I've heard so much about you and it is a delight to finally meet you' or something?
Thoughts?
Quote from: allisonsteph on December 16, 2014, 07:09:36 PM
I was sitting in the break room at work during lunch today, sharing a table with some of my coworkers in my training class. One woman asks another if she had seen the Facebook post of a mutual acquaintance of theirs. Apparently this acquaintance had posted a coming out statement announcing that they were transitioning from male to female accompanied with a picture dressed in woman's clothing. I tensed up, fearing the worst, having no clue where this conversation was going to land. They chatted, saying things that to them seem supportive and open minded, but were just clumsy. Things like "I support people like that" and "what ever makes him happy". I think they definitely had good intentions but were clueless on how to express them. As I sat there, my eyes shifting back and forth between them, the heat raising up the back of my neck, thinking "don't these two realize that there is a transexual woman sitting between them?"
This was a very odd situation. I was sure that if I had said anything at all I would have outed myself to those who didn't know I was transexual. Then I thought "how could they not know?" I'm not very feminine looking and I have a very deep voice, like James Earl Jones deep. I have this very strange mixture of emotions right now, I'm worried that I will be outed, amazed that they don't realize, and satisfied that I have managed to properly socialize myself as a woman despite being raised as a male.
I suppose we do need to give others a little slack. It must be quite confronting for some on how to approach us, or just what to say. So if they do know about you Alison, seems they may be just struggling on how to break it to you. If they don't, well hey, people are people, none of us are perfect and we don't always say the most elegant things, even if we think we are.
Quote from: Cindy on December 17, 2014, 03:56:21 AM
Interesting situation. I was at a Xmas staff BBQ on Saturday and met two women who I hadn't met before, they were very friendly and very nice and took pains to tell me how they had defended me from bigot comments. I felt a bit odd, OK I'm a well known transgender woman, bigots don't bother me a bit, but I was little taken aback that their first comments to me was to acknowledge my transgender status and how much they accepted me.
I think they meant well, but I felt slightly offended that the first thing they wanted to discuss with me was my gender status. Why not say 'Wow, Cindy, nice to meet you I've heard so much about you and it is a delight to finally meet you' or something?
Thoughts?
Is this our Nirvana Cindy, I mean that we are simply nothing different to those around us? I totally agree with you, I want to be recognised for me, and the qualitys that make me who I am. But the truth is in my company of 1200 people, I'm the only Trans Woman. And so in nature I beleive that would make me quite a rare species. And I suppose whilst walking through the forest of life, one may be intrigued by such a rare species. They may not know whether to smell the flower, take a photo of it or touch it. I think people sometimes are the same with Trans people. It can be confronting. My tactic is simply to leave it with them, if they want to speak to me about it, they can, if they don't, then great.
Having recently come out at work two weeks ago, I'm still working through the stares. But hey, I'll be old news soon lol
Quote from: Cindy on December 17, 2014, 03:56:21 AM
Interesting situation. I was at a Xmas staff BBQ on Saturday and met two women who I hadn't met before, they were very friendly and very nice and took pains to tell me how they had defended me from bigot comments. I felt a bit odd, OK I'm a well known transgender woman, bigots don't bother me a bit, but I was little taken aback that their first comments to me was to acknowledge my transgender status and how much they accepted me.
I think they meant well, but I felt slightly offended that the first thing they wanted to discuss with me was my gender status. Why not say 'Wow, Cindy, nice to meet you I've heard so much about you and it is a delight to finally meet you' or something?
Thoughts?
I think they meant well but not having met other trans people they thought it was appropriate to tell you that so that you knew they weren't one of the bigots, not realising they could do the same thing by having a normal conversation like they would with a cis woman. The same thing probably still happens with gay people. They say 'hey you're the gay guy that works here' just to let you know you know that and are ok with it, not realising you're just the same as everyone else.
Quote from: allisonsteph on December 17, 2014, 03:41:05 AM
The mutual acquaintance they spoke of was a person they had worked with at a previous job. Of the 16 people in my training class 8 of them worked for the same company at one point of another in the past. The one who initiated the conversation acted as she was half expecting it, the other seemed shocked, yet was the one who said "I support people like that" as they looked at pictures of the is person on Facebook.
Sorry AlisonSteph :icon_redface:
L Katy :-*
My dept. is all-male (except me), and the break-room banter can get VERY misogynistic, as one can imagine. There have been several intances over the years when some horribly disparaging remarks were made about trans women. It is shocking to hear some of the most dehumanizing and rude commentary coming from my co-workers of many years, as I sat there listening to their uninhibited hatespeech. For a long time, i just had to put up with it, afraid i would out myself by trying to stand up for TG. I left work in tears on many occasions.
Over the last year, my appearance has feminized greatly from hrt, diet and exercise, letting my hair grow out etc... and recently one of them asked me point-blank if i was transgender. I admitted i was, and the word quickly spread... now i am constantly being harassed by my boss and the upper mgmt.
Quote from: Kira357 on December 17, 2014, 08:19:32 AM
My dept. is all-male (except me), and the break-room banter can get VERY misogynistic, as one can imagine. There have been several intances over the years when some horribly disparaging remarks were made about trans women. It is shocking to hear some of the most dehumanizing and rude commentary coming from my co-workers of many years, as I sat there listening to their uninhibited hatespeech. For a long time, i just had to put up with it, afraid i would out myself by trying to stand up for TG. I left work in tears on many occasions.
Over the last year, my appearance has feminized greatly from hrt, diet and exercise, letting my hair grow out etc... and recently one of them asked me point-blank if i was transgender. I admitted i was, and the word quickly spread... now i am constantly being harassed by my boss and the upper mgmt.
That's completely unacceptable behaviour from your workplace Kira and I'm sorry you have to endure such shocking behaviour. I know in Australia and I'm sure the U.S. as well there are laws which protect all of us from such harassment. Do you mind if I ask what industry you work in? The reason I ask, is often in blue collar industry's even management are misinformed of the laws which are there to protect employees. If you have a union, that would be a good start. Alternatively your state may (should) have an employment department which is there to enforce these laws. Fortunately I haven't had to endure anything derogatory, in fact the worst I think I could expect is passive aggressive attitude, which is easily dealt with. Certainly if you feel strong enough, stand up, not to the individuals, but through legal means. The company itself is responsible for ensuring a safe workplace for all employees. This means free of dangers, harassment and other harm. I hope you can get the ball following on a resolution Kira as situations such as what you describe can become toxic, which is not good for the company, but most importantly it's not good for your wellbeing.
Have care hon,
Bree xxx
Quote from: BreezyB on December 17, 2014, 09:41:05 AM
That's completely unacceptable behaviour from your workplace Kira and I'm sorry you have to endure such shocking behaviour. I know in Australia and I'm sure the U.S. as well there are laws which protect all of us from such harassment. Do you mind if I ask what industry you work in? The reason I ask, is often in blue collar industry's even management are misinformed of the laws which are there to protect employees. If you have a union, that would be a good start. Alternatively your state may (should) have an employment department which is there to enforce these laws. Fortunately I haven't had to endure anything derogatory, in fact the worst I think I could expect is passive aggressive attitude, which is easily dealt with. Certainly if you feel strong enough, stand up, not to the individuals, but through legal means. The company itself is responsible for ensuring a safe workplace for all employees. This means free of dangers, harassment and other harm. I hope you can get the ball following on a resolution Kira as situations such as what you describe can become toxic, which is not good for the company, but most importantly it's not good for your wellbeing.
Have care hon,
Bree xxx
Thanks, Bree...
I filed a complaint with my union, but the harassment continues.... as if I don't already have enough anxiety between going through transition and my impending divorce. I just keep trying to get by one day at a time. Some people just have a need to make things difficult, I guess... :-\
~Kira
Quote from: Cindy on December 17, 2014, 03:56:21 AM
Interesting situation. I was at a Xmas staff BBQ on Saturday and met two women who I hadn't met before, they were very friendly and very nice and took pains to tell me how they had defended me from bigot comments. I felt a bit odd, OK I'm a well known transgender woman, bigots don't bother me a bit, but I was little taken aback that their first comments to me was to acknowledge my transgender status and how much they accepted me.
I think they meant well, but I felt slightly offended that the first thing they wanted to discuss with me was my gender status. Why not say 'Wow, Cindy, nice to meet you I've heard so much about you and it is a delight to finally meet you' or something?
Thoughts?
I think your definitely right, a more acceptable and friendly approach would of been for them to acknowledge your public standing and maybe inquire about your work.
Quote from: Kira357 on December 17, 2014, 02:39:05 PM
Thanks, Bree...
I filed a complaint with my union, but the harassment continues.... as if I don't already have enough anxiety between going through transition and my impending divorce. I just keep trying to get by one day at a time. Some people just have a need to make things difficult, I guess... :-\
~Kira
Hi Kira. Do you live in a state where you're protected from this abuse? Are you documenting every instance?
I'm sorry that you're having to up with such s***, Kira. I'm just really afraid that you're in a no-win situation.
If you went to HR and people were reprimanded for their behavior, then retaliation could result. On the other hand, the boss may try to find an excuse to get rid of you for some inane thing (if you don't act). All in all, I sense a lose-lose scenario.
I really feel for you, for especially with your personal life in tatters, work should be a safe haven.
Please feel free to vent here or PM me. Don't let yourself get so far down that you want to give up. Hugs.
I'm sorry you had to deal with that. You did a lot better then I think I would have, I have horrible impulse control. I probably would have gotten into their conversation and began correcting them left and right. Just the fact they were using male pronouns on her would have made me mad, at the very least I would have stormed out of the lunch room. Again you handle the situation very well because my reactions probably wouldn't be warranted.
@ Hana: I've been I passing which completely surprises me because my hair is cut in a pixie right now due to having just getting out of military service. I really thought that would make it harder but I've gotten correctly gendered since I started going out full time and stopped wearing male clothes. My issue is I have Borderline Personality Disorder and severe impulse control issues so I don't think I'd ever go stealth because I couldn't stop myself from butting in on things.
I don't think FL has statewide protections yet, but the county i work in does. The union is helping as much as they can, and I'm documenting as much as possible. They are using the direct "write-up for every little thing approach" and the the passive-aggressive approach, intentional misgendering, marginalizing, misogyny and such, especially now that a lot of people know despite that I'm not officially out yet. It's nerve-wracking to say the least and affecting my job performance which is what they want. Very frustrating. By the OP and other posts here, it looks like this all is still common practice. :(
Quote from: KittyKat on December 18, 2014, 05:09:46 PM
@ Hana: I've been I passing which completely surprises me because my hair is cut in a pixie right now due to having just getting out of military service. I really thought that would make it harder but I've gotten correctly gendered since I started going out full time and stopped wearing male clothes. My issue is I have Borderline Personality Disorder and severe impulse control issues so I don't think I'd ever go stealth because I couldn't stop myself from butting in on things.
I have BPD as well and I have found that my impulsiveness has been tempered a bit. I get the urge to butt in on things, but I am able to stop myself more often than not these days. I think it is because I have stopped hating myself and now have more resources to deal with everyday life than I did while I was trying to control the self-hatred.
BPD is really simular to bipolar, except it cause really poor emotion control. For me I generally feel emotions in the ranges of 1-3 and 7-10, 4-6 are completely bypassed for just about ever emotion. I actually do tend to isolate a lot if I'm feeling a particularly bad emotion at 7-10, the problem is it goes from say a 3 to a 9 in about 5 seconds. I've literally walked out side before for some air when I was work in the middle of talking to the NCOIC of the ER and when she followed me I just walked home (I lived on base). She actually got in trouble and not me because I asked for space and she and her supervisors were all aware of my mental health issues since I was already being medically retired. Well that's my brief description of BPD, it also has impulse control issues which I believe is linked to unstable emotions. I've gotten better at controlling my emotions most of the time and hopefully when I start a civilian job it'll be different then Army work, plus the fact that I don't have to act like I guy anymore.