Transgender teen commits suicide, cites Christian parents in blog
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2014/12/transgender-teen-commits-suicide-cites-christian-parents-in-blog/ (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2014/12/transgender-teen-commits-suicide-cites-christian-parents-in-blog/)
December 29, 2014 by Michael Stone
... The only way I will rest in peace is if one day transgender people aren't treated the way I was, they're treated like humans, with valid feelings and human rights. Gender needs to be taught about in schools, the earlier the better. My death needs to mean something. My death needs to be counted in the number of transgender people who commit suicide this year. I want someone to look at that number and say "that's [messed] up" and fix it. Fix society. Please.
Goodbye,
(Leelah) Josh Alcorn
Despite Leelah's request that we be not sad, we should be sad. This was an avoidable tragedy. All that was required was a little more education, and a little less religious bigotry.
Rest in peace.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1279.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy537%2FDevlynMarie%2FModstuff%2Fcandle_flame_zps05f4fedd.jpg&hash=6daecf7043991ca72a28261f7cfad76c8cb04521)
Damn. That is really terrible.
Too many of these... so much hate...
It's sad that this was the only way to stop hurting.
It's not the answer and those who feel this should get themselves into the local hospital.
Even the youth have protections in the states but they need to be more pro active.
Best place to start is planned parenthood. Or mental health in the hospital.
Tonight I shead a tear that truly should not be needed.
That is the saddest thing I have read in a long time. Sometimes I wish I could just tear parents like that new a*holes.
RIP Leelah. I hope you can haunt them from beyond the grave.
Why am I left wanting to pursue the parents for child abuse?
so sad. so sad also Christ's love is turned so twisted and backwards.
*Crying* Can't type much right now, too upset
I hid for 39 years from parents like hers, it's horrible. I am so sad for her.
So very sad and so preventable, a tragic loss. My heart and tears falls for her, may she rest in peace!
that was heartbreaking. :(
On this sad note I want to say to others who might find themselves in her shoes, there are many beautiful women who transitioned later in life who found happiness. The worst part is that Leelah was so surrounded by hate, she couldn't see the light. She was made to feel hopeless. Age 18 or 25 or what ever there is always hope of having the appearance you desire. There is also hope of finding love, many people trans and cis alike feel alone all the time but people do find the one for them.
If any reading this feel that they are in a similar situation as Leelah don't give up hope, you still have plenty of time to transition. Don't let hate steal your light, if you have to hide it and protect it until it is time for it to shine.
RiP Leelah
It is a shame that there are parents out there that are totally deaf to the pain their own children are experiencing because of their fundamentalist religious beliefs (my own parents included). I expect that her parents finally had their eyes opened but now it is too late and they will have to live with the knowledge that they didn't hear the cries of pain from their child because they were too busy pushing strict religious beliefs at her. Religion is not supposed to cause harm to families; it should instead bring them together. Something is dreadfully wrong with their belief system.
Its always a tragedy to lose someone especially those who are young. However...it is an epidemic in our community that needs to be put to an end with love and understanding.
I hope she is in someway a better place.
So much sorrow. Hopefully her death will not be in vain. Hopefully she can rest. As for her parents, the pain they now have...don't wish them more. Can you imagine the horror of finally realizing that your actions have caused this?
So much hate going around coz people use the name of God in vain to protect their interest. Hence, I am completely pushing through with my transition and fully living my life. Bigots will be bigots no matter what.
Peace, Love and you rest in Peace Leelah xoxo we love you girl hugs!
Quote from: JustEmily on December 29, 2014, 10:48:45 PMCan you imagine the horror of finally realizing that your actions have caused this?
I doubt that they will take any responsibility for their child's misery. They haven't up to this point. Still, maybe a miracle will occur.
I just read her letter about an hour ago and cried for awhile. So I started playing guitar to help myself calm down and ended up writing a song about her. Her death will not be in vain.
rest in peace Leelah
It may be too late for Leah's parents, but if this wakes up even one set of parents like hers, then her death won't have been in vain.
I'm just so sad that she had to give her life in order to awaken them fully to her pain.
It sucks that these things happen, but I was hoping it could be a learning experience for the parents that you can't change the nature of a person. Unfortunately I saw today that doesn't appear to be the case. Their kid died and they don't seem to understand why. Such a waste. I saw a documentary on being gay in a religious environment and one of the couples in the movie learned the lesson after their daughter killed herself. While they can't bring her back, they want to help people to understand and try to prevent it from happening to others. I guess it doesn't always work out that way.
So sad, it almost makes me cry. RIP poor young girl.
The story has been picked up by Yahoo News. Some of the comments make me want to vomit. Actually, I want to do more than that. But I can't do that without going to prison. It amazes me what people will say when they are safe and sound behind their computers.
Sickening.
This is so sad and horrible. It never ceases to amaze me how horrible people can be. Those parents should be charged with something and punished.
Quote from: Laura Squirrel on December 30, 2014, 07:01:00 PM
The story has been picked up by Yahoo News. Some of the comments make me want to vomit. Actually, I want to do more than that. But I can't do that without going to prison. It amazes me what people will say when they are safe and sound behind their computers.
Sickening.
Yes, the dregs of "humanity" strike again. Who spends all day trolling Yahoo and just hating everyone in sight just for the sake of it?
This makes me so angry that I'm seeing red. There should just be a law that if you hate LGBTQ people and don't think you can handle having a child that's queer--you're not allowed to breed.
I hope Leelah finds some peace.
The worst part about all of this is that it doesn't even offer a little surprise to me....I think that speaks volumes for the relationship society at large has with transpeople.
Tsk tsk tsk
Every child deserves parents who love them above all. My heart is bleeding for kids like Leelah. May she rest in peace and may the world become a better place for everyone else in her situation.
Tragic. If only parents (and spouses and children) would learn sooner. There was a good documentary called "For the Bible Tells Me So" about some fundamentalist parents, including a pastor, who learned and changed their minds - only too late in dealing and rejecting their gay children.
"When will they learn that too many people have died? - Bob Dylan
I nearly cried, reading about this. I just hope, somehow, somewhere,she gets a second chance...she didn't deserve any of this, no one does. And I'm extremely infuriated at the parents...In my eyes, that counts as a type of abuse. I just hope karma gets them back somehow, hard, and that Leelah can soon rest in peace.
This makes me so sad, and I feel like crying so much... And me and Leelah are so similar, we are the same age, my mom is very religious as well, but she is muslim and she offered me to go to a muslim Imam and get "Help" in order to cure this disease, and I decided to leave her house, and now I'm homeless. I know that this life is really hard, and I've been thinking about ending my life so many times, but somehow I have hope in my heart that one day it will be better, I wish I had a chance to talk with Leelah and tell her that one day it will be better. Her parents need to go to jail, they killed her. It's an injustice. I can't believe that such a young life had to end so soon, because of our ->-bleeped-<-ed up society. :icon_cry2: :icon_cry2: :icon_cry2: :icon_cry2:
I cried so much when I read that news link. It's such a shame. That could have honestly have been me after I was kicked out of my mom's house at age 15. Sure I had to pretend to be a boy for the next 5 years to live with my dad. But all that suffering was worth it now that I am finally transitioning at 21. I hope she, Leelah, rests in peace. I hope that all of you young transmen and women stay strong out there. Breaks my heart to bits.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tanehill/not-one-more_b_6400854.html?utm_hp_ref=transgender
Huffington Post/by Brynn Tanehill 12/31/2014
'When Leelah Alcorn died between Dayton and Cincinnati she left a note on tumblr that was a wake-up call to the world regarding what it means to be a transgender youth in a conservative Christian family.'
When I first saw about Leelah's suicide I cried. I first cried for Leelah then I cried for the truck driver.
Then I saw the mother's facebook post and saw that the mother made no mention of Leelah and was
worried that her death wouldn't have an impact. Now I see the story all over. What is really nice is that most of the online stories I see
have her pronouns correct. Evan ABC news got it correct. I also see that there is a memorial rally planned for friday night and
even though this is Ohio there is already over 2,000 people people that have signed up to be there. I am flabbergasted at the response.
I hope that is has somewhat of an impact on her parents and other parents of trans teens.
I've been mulling this over a lot the last few days. I have an account on Tumblr and was following her blog. Neither of us really knew each other and we weren't close. She mostly posted silly stuff like Sailor Moon stuff and so forth, cutesy feminine stuff, just a kid being a kid. I actually missed when she posted several suicide related posts and her note though due to the holidays and my birthday falling back to back, and only went back to look when I saw her tumblr name show up in a news story and thought it sounded familiar. I see so many people on Tumblr talking about harming or killing themselves, or wanting to, that when it actually happened ...
I just sighed.
It was just that unsurprising. With how many trans people I see with serious depression and lack of empathy from non trans people ... I just felt it was a matter of time before someone gave up.
Part of me is angry at her, some of which I feel is justified ... some of it not. I'm angry, because regardless of how freaking hard her situation was? I wish I could grab her by the shoulders, give her a good hard shake and tell her she should have held on and waited until she was 18. She was still more than young enough for HRT to have had very good results even with a later start date. She had so much to look forward to in life and it just seems very senseless to have thrown it away like that. We'll never know what she will achieve because she gave up.
I also have complex feelings about her wanting her death to have meaning. It worries me that the attention she's getting may prompt other trans youth (and even trans adults) to do the same in a desperate attempt to both give up and to do something that gives some kind of meaning in what they may very strongly feel is a meaningless empty life. High profile suicides often cause 'copy cat' suicides.
And in a way that makes my stomach churn ... I have to admit that it disturbs me greatly that her death does have meaning. There's drives, and petitions, and memorial services, and vigils, and politicians paying attention, and ... her death may actually get results. It sickens me that in order to get people talking a child has to step in front of a semi truck and give her life like that. How many more of us have to give our own blood before things change? And that thought brings me to what I said above ... there probably will be more blood spilled. It's horrible that us being murdered doesn't make people bat an eyelash ... but a girl stepping out onto a highway in the early morning makes national headlines. Only the most extreme acts get attention. To me it really speaks to how little our lives are valued by society in a way I can't really explain. It makes me physically ill thinking about it.
Even still, despite my anger at her ... there's also an unshakable feeling that ... I'm hard pressed to actually blame her. While I try to give people the benefit of the doubt until I hear their side ... her parents cruelty trying to send her to Christan 'therapists' to 'fix' her because their religion 'says no', intentionally socially isolating their child because they're 'embarrassed' and more worried about their reputation than their kid ... That would be hard to live with. Being Transgender is sooooo difficult already without dealing with out right cruelty like that from your own parents (as others have said here already). There are times when it's very hard for me to justify my own existence simply because it feels almost impossible.
There's something else that chills me to the bone when I think about how she died. I try to put on an optimistic front on my blog (...which is why I'm posting this here instead of there...while I know not everything I'm saying is going to be popular ... I've got to say it somewhere), but even still ... I've certainly thought about doing the exact same thing just because at times it's hard to shake the thought that, "You know what? This is too hard. It's just not worth it." Because of the way our society is, at times it really does feel like it would be easier and a better choice to just step in front of a semi truck and get it over with. And I'm older with more psychological self defense mechanisms and I've got a supportive family and friends. All of that helps me to be able to keep going no matter what. Without them ... While I'm angry at her for doing it? I don't know that I can really find it in my heart to blame her, either.
And her parents ...
I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, and, I'm also a parent. I can't begin to imagine how they feel. But at the same time...
It's REALLY HARD for me to feel sorry for them when, according to several news agencies, Leelah's own mom posts about her as 'him', didn't use her name, and almost flat out denied what even superficially was an obvious suicide for reasons she and presumably her husband were blatantly aware of and actively worsening. Her parents may not have pulled the trigger. They may not have legally done anything wrong (even if their actions were those of reprehensible monsters). But ... from where I'm looking, I genuinely feel that they killed her.
The best thing I can think of that might help make up for their horrible irresponsible negligent choices would be for them to publicly state that they were wrong. Turn around, find those 'therapists' who weren't doing a damn thing for your kid but say "Pray to god!". Rake them across the coals. Hold them accountable. Speak out and TELL people how YOU killed YOUR CHILD so that it NEVER EVER HAPPENS AGAIN.
I sincerely hope that Leelah's death brings about laws banning conversion therapy, and possibly goes farther to hold 'Christan therapists' accountable for the harm they do and forces them to practice at a higher, responsible, ethical standard, all of which they should be doing already. I pray that her parents look long and hard into their hearts and spend the rest of their lives trying to right this wrong and to help others. It's too late for their daughter.
But maybe they will listen to their own daughter's last words and help give Leelah's death meaning. Her parents very well could save lives.
Quote from: Amy The Bookworm on January 01, 2015, 03:00:09 AM
I sincerely hope that Leelah's death brings about laws banning conversion therapy, and possibly goes farther to hold 'Christan therapists' accountable for the harm they do and forces them to practice at a higher, responsible, ethical standard, all of which they should be doing already.
I agree.
I'd even like to see more. I'd like to see a country where our culture and laws make it CHILD ABUSE to deny a child the right to express his/her gender identity.
Key quote:
QuoteMissouri law defines child neglect as "the failure to provide, by those responsible for the care, custody, and control of a child under the age of eighteen years, the care reasonable and necessary to maintain the physical and mental health of the child" and is also punishable with years in prison, even if the child doesn't perish. But somehow, despite everything, the state will not recognize what happened to Leelah as neglect.
What happened to Leelah was child abuse, pure and simple. Until our society and laws recognize that, unfortunately there will be a whole lot more.
Agreed. Unfortunately it is still OK to neglect the needs of transgender people in society. That needs to be fixed first of all. We are human, above all.
Quote from: suzifrommd on January 01, 2015, 06:26:23 AM
I agree.
I'd even like to see more. I'd like to see a country where our culture and laws make it CHILD ABUSE to deny a child the right to express his/her gender identity.
Yeah ... I know you're right and I want that too? But I know that's just too much to hope for.
Which is sad.
I can't really wrap my brain around the idea of "maybe my death will make things change". You're dead, that's it. I can see how others may think that. But, I just couldn't take things to such an extreme. As far as society goes: I tend to look at all of the people that just want to make trouble for everyone else (no matter who they may be) and give them the double fist, one finger salute. Some people won't accept change no matter what you do. Those people can get stuffed.
I had read this earlier today, and I felt such a numbness that I didn't know what to say.
It's sad but not surprising at all.
Hopefully one day all these dogmas will be thrown away, but until then, we have to keep fighting...
Leelah will be remembered and missed! RIP My heart is so deeply touched by her story. I was in same place at her age of 17. Taking a bunch of pills because the world in the 90's, friends, an armed forces father, and doctors not trained in gender ways " It is wrong to be a woman in your body because your born a boy!" If had not been for the love of a friend who understood and God I would of not upchucked those pills back then,and I would have never got to meet my understanding and loving wife and family that has accepted me and allowed me to be the woman I am inside. I wish I could of told Leelah that. God dose not make mistakes. He makes all kinds of people and yes trans people too!!
From my Twitter:
QuoteRT: @CNN Transgender teen: "My death needs to mean something." http://cnn.it/14frJ6D #LeelahAlcorn
I totally related to #LeelahAlcorn. I hope people start to understand what it's like. #TransLivesMatter #Transgender
This was her #SwanSong. http://lazerprincess.tumblr.com/post/106447705738/suicide-note ... #TransLivesMatter #LeelahAlcorn
Reading through some of the CNN article, I felt Leelah was writing my biography. It mirrored my life so much. This treatment of trans people isn't healthy. I have considered suicide in the past, partly because of no outlet and support for being transgender. Hopefully, Like Leelah's death won't be in vain.
While Leelah's life doesn't mirror mine, I did try to commit suicide multiple times as a teenager. My dad even called the cops once.
I wrote about this in my coming out letter, to which he is yet to respond to. :(
Her life does need to be an example. But I wouldn't lay the blame solely on religion. Rather, parents need to stop projecting themselves through their children. Their children are individuals with their own characteristics and expression. This is the core of many problems with children, IMO. Yes, the fundies make it worse but it takes a bit of the parents own stubbornness and belief that they can change something fundamental to someone.
This story gives me the chills, because in late November, I was very sad and frustrated and I had an icident where I turned off my headlights went over to the wrong side of a country road for a few seconds. I didn't plan to do it, but acted on an impulse. After that I began searching for therapist, but put it off until I had an emotional break down in December where I missed work and sat crying in my room for hours. Right now, I'm glad that nothing happened, but I can understand how emotionally abusive parents could push a transgender child over the edge, its difficult enough when you're in the closet and your parents are clueless.
Concerning her parents, I think they deserve be in prison and to live their lives in total shame. For what they have done to their daughter, they deserve unlimited pain in this world, and in the next. Her parents will probably never go to prison and we don't know if there is a "next world," but they can be made famous and made the object of public scorn in this world.
Quote from: Eva Marie on December 29, 2014, 10:32:37 PM
I expect that her parents finally had their eyes opened but now it is too late and they will have to live with the knowledge that they didn't hear the cries of pain from their child ...
My understanding is that they haven't.
They did hear the cries of pain.
They just evidently thought being able to cling to their rigid ideas of Right and Wrong was worth more than their child's life. Leelah's parents were (as she describes it) more concerned with maintaining their image as "good Christian parents" than with her welfare.
Parents sacrificing their children to their "principles", their agendas, their pride has a long and (IMHO overly) hallowed history. Iphigenia, Isaac, Jephthah's unnamed daughter, and of course all the children sacrificed in wars by parents who sent them off with a "with your shield or on it."
FWIW, back in the days when I was closest to suicide myself, I remember my mother saying out of the blue how she thought people who committed suicide were so awful because doing so made the other people in their lives feel bad. I'm pretty sure I'd never told anyone about my thoughts, but I got the message: if I did commit suicide, she wasn't going to concern herself with what had driven me to it, only what a bad boy I was for making her feel bad. I'm pretty confident that that's how Leelah's parents are taking it.
It's really an education thing. Both for transgender youth as well as parents. Parents who face this in their children need to learn the reality of the condition and not pass it off just hoping it goes away. Transgender youth need to know that there is indeed hope. Even if you have to wait until you are an adult, you can be made whole. If you look at/near the bigger cities this is better, but still not great. The rural areas are much worse with nothing so rough as a small town that you can't disappear into. It is very tragic but at least this awful incident is in the news and getting people to talk. There is an article on it in the center placement on cnn.com.
I can't imagine what the parents must eventually feel as they are torn by guilt, loss and the conflict with what they had convinced themselves were strong moral values. I still want to pimp slap them but I'd rather be thrown into a shredder than feel what they must live with for the rest of their lives. My brothers all have the extreme christian value issue and still don't understand things. They are so screwed up they have their kids in a private school specifically to avoid having their kids being taught that homosexuality is acceptable. They think it's something you can simply choose not to do like stealing or something criminal/immoral. I pity them as they will become pariahs themselves like old bigots in modern society. As I cannot fix them, they are not in my life. The caution I would have for anybody upset by the situation is to please not return their idiotic ignorance with hate. It doesn't make things better.
still want to pimp slap them though.....
Quote from: Daft on January 02, 2015, 11:34:01 AM
Because they did commit child abuse. The crime was that they refused to allow her to transition. They refused the treatment she needed. Her parents should be charged responsible for her death. However, I would also accuse her therapists of the same crime. It is no secret that trans people in particular are at a higher risk for depression and suicide. Both the therapists and parents did everything they shouldn't have done, and they are responsible for her death.
They need to be held responsible, and made an example out of so that other doctors and family, particularly parents, know what happens when they kill one of our own.
Under TOS 5,10 and 15 accusing various individuals is not permitted on the forum or chat.
We encourage discussion of this subject and we understand that it touches a lot of us on very personal levels. But please leave accusations to the proper legal authorities. We are neither police, judge or jury. :)
To be honest I hate everyday I hear of a lost soul that I have failed them.
I am the proof that one can be there but live.
So you want to blame anyone then I am more to blame.
Quote from: rachel89 on January 02, 2015, 12:11:12 AM
Concerning her parents, I think they deserve be in prison and to live their lives in total shame. For what they have done to their daughter, they deserve unlimited pain in this world, and in the next. Her parents will probably never go to prison and we don't know if there is a "next world," but they can be made famous and made the object of public scorn in this world.
I do not agree with your with your rather myopic and self centered judgment. These parents were acting in good faith in accordance with their own personal beliefs and doing what they believed was the right thing for their child. They have just lost their child.
You might consider that perhaps this child had other issues that caused them to self destruct. I do not believe that you, or anybody here should be so quick and self righteous to judge.
I wouldn't spend too much effort defending her parents, but I think the negativity isn't doing any good. Leelah told us to make society better, not harass or threaten her family. Put your outrage and passion toward positive change. Her parents failed her, and are no longer relevant. All this energy could be put toward good use and I'd hate to see it all wasted on her parents.
Leelah wanted us to find answers not throw around more hate no matter under what guise
Now that a few days have passed, the one thought that keeps resurfacing for me is this dichotomy:
- Federal Judges have decided that trans prisoners in Ohio have a legal right to medically indicated endocrine treatments.
- To this day Ohio has 86 counties where parents have a legal right to withhold lifesaving medical care from children on religious grounds.
I just can't wrap my head around how lawmakers and judges can set irrational, self-serving religious beliefs above the physical well being of children.
I feel that it's a problem that the trans community is only really united when tragedy occurs but once it's over, it's back to business as usual as if we never learned anything from these deaths. This better mean something, I really don't want to realize that we only make progress with tragedy rather than celebrating accomplishments of the living.
Please keep this topic civil and remember the TOS. I know this is a very sensitive issue but keep things polite. Bashing of any kind will not be tolerated.
Maybe I got a little too angry, but this is very upsetting for me.
Quote from: rachel89 on January 03, 2015, 01:24:56 AM
Maybe I got a little too angry, but this is very upsetting for me.
For all of us.
For my part, I'd like to see a legal and cultural framework where denying a child's gender identity is as much child abuse as any other type of emotional abuse.
But in the absence of that framework, it is possible that the parents who damaged her were just trying to be good people in the only way they knew how. The most troubling part of their behavior has been their reaction afterward, seeing how disastrously their actions turned out, and yet being unable to second guess them.
Quote from: suzifrommd on January 03, 2015, 05:32:31 AM
... it is possible that the parents who damaged her were just trying to be good people in the only way they knew how.
suzi, I have the greatest respect for you, but I'm going to throw that excuse down on the concrete and blast it with my flamethrower until it's nothing more than black flakes. (I'm imagining some sort of evil amoeba-like alien parasitic sci-fi/horror organism.)
It seems like whenever someone has done something horrible, especially to me or to people I care about, people excuse it with "they didn't know any better." I especially get this from my family. You can excuse anything that way.
It's 2015, folks! Not 1015! The knowledge is out there. If you have kids, you have a
responsibility to find out what they need. Their lives are depending upon your competence. You have a
responsibility to notice when your practices aren't working and look for help and keep looking for something that does work. If Leelah had been schizophrenic, would we excuse her parents if they'd tried to beat it out of her (to the point of killing her) rather than going to a psychiatrist? Any halfway decent psychologist would have seen that how they were treating her wasn't working and was in fact harming her -- that's
why they went to "Christian" therapists instead of a real therapist. They wanted therapists that they could trust not to suggest that they accept that Leelah wasn't going to be an ANSI-standard boy. They
chose to not know any better.
No, I will not give her parents a pass. Ignorance is no excuse, especially when it has such horrible consequences.
Quote from: Asche on January 03, 2015, 07:31:41 AM
It's 2015, folks! Not 1015! The knowledge is out there. If you have kids, you have a responsibility to find out what they need. Their lives are depending upon your competence. You have a responsibility to notice when your practices aren't working and look for help and keep looking for something that does work. If Leelah had been schizophrenic, would we excuse her parents if they'd tried to beat it out of her (to the point of killing her) rather than going to a psychiatrist? Any halfway decent psychologist would have seen that how they were treating her wasn't working and was in fact harming her
Everything you say here is true. I believe, as you do, that ultimately her parents bear the lion's share of the responsibility for her death.
But I can also put myself in the place of someone who has been told their whole life by everyone they respect "Don't listen those people. Those people are the mouth of the devil. Listen to me. I'm the real truth." Whose very value system involves having ultimate faith in a particular viewpoint and the questioning of any part of that viewpoint as heretical.
I would like to believe that, even growing up in that sort of environment, I would think for myself and question whether I had to do that to my kid. But not everyone has that sort of willingness to go against culture.
I can see a parent distraught at the direction a kid is taking, believing the kid will be condemned to Hell if nothing is done. I can imagine going to the only person whose wisdom is trusted - the clergyman - and fearfully following his advice lest my worst fears realize.
So in the final analysis, I am quicker to condemn the institutions that substitute their own particular brand of hate and indoctrination for good advice than the parents who relied on those institutions.
It hasn't been that unusual, historically, for people to say, "what's a little suffering in this life compared to an eternity of damnation." Not saying that they, or anyone that advised them thought that way, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Quote from: Marcellow on January 02, 2015, 09:42:34 PM
I feel that it's a problem that the trans community is only really united when tragedy occurs but once it's over, it's back to business as usual as if we never learned anything from these deaths. This better mean something, I really don't want to realize that we only make progress with tragedy rather than celebrating accomplishments of the living.
A small start would be to keep the story in the news. And, to push Tumblr to reinstate one of only two places Leelah exists.
"Tumblr helps parents erase the existence of Leelah Alcorn
"the Tumblr spokesman said: 'When a direct family member contacts us
about the blog of a deceased user, we work with them to provide their
desired outcome. In this case, consistent with our existing policies, we have honored the family's request and made the blog inaccessible to the public."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2895534/Heartbreaking-suicide-note-17-year-old-transgender-girl-DELETED-Tumblr-page-candlelit-vigils-held-honor.html
Quote from: Marcellow on January 02, 2015, 09:42:34 PM
I feel that it's a problem that the trans community is only really united when tragedy occurs but once it's over, it's back to business as usual as if we never learned anything from these deaths. This better mean something, I really don't want to realize that we only make progress with tragedy rather than celebrating accomplishments of the living.
Not to be cynical, but isn't this part of any tragedy that makes the news? Human beings live in the moment more often than not, it's a flaw in our design. The only way change can happen is if the push continues past the "honeymoon phase" and that's where my optimism kicks in. This wasn't a private suicide, she wanted to make a point and it seems to be "sticking" better than many public trans* suicides in the past. That's the hope anyway.
A couple of things I will say.
Yes this was a tragedy, and I hope to Goddess that her life was not in vain. Her life has had an impact and I think that is good.
I'm also mourning for the driver of the semi that she used to kill herself. That person will forever watch a child throw herself into the path of their truck.
Suicide in NEVER an answer.
I feel sorry for her parents. OK they are in denial, but they obviously loved their child and are suffering the grief of not only losing a child, but compounded by the vilification of others for not being 'good parents'.
I do not agree with what they did, but they followed what their religion taught them; in my mind, don't condemn them, condemn the mindless fundamentalist religions that teach intolerance, that cannot accept science and hence cannot accept that we evolve as humans through the eons and that our thinking and acceptance has to change with that.
I'm shocked, but not surprised, by the hatred of some of the LGBTIQRSWXYZ communities to the parents.
Why is it, we who suffer such intolerance and hatred, find it somehow comforting or affirming to visit those same feelings on others?
Suicide is NEVER an answer. Leelah was not let down by her parents; her parents and her were let down by society, by us.
You and I are society.
OK I'll throw this in the ring. We are responsible for Leelah's death.
Every time we do not stand up for trans*issues. When we have not been out there shouting that we are normal men and women. Every time we hide and hope no one knows; when we hide our shame?
We are transgender. How about being proud of it rather than furtive?
(My personal thoughts)
Cindy
Being proud of it would seem to be what needs to make the difference
This is one of the best things I have seen after what happened to Leelah. I just wanted to pass it along in case you have or know family that are stuck on Christian 'values'. http://mic.com/articles/107654/this-catholic-priest-had-the-perfect-message-for-parents-of-transgender-children (http://mic.com/articles/107654/this-catholic-priest-had-the-perfect-message-for-parents-of-transgender-children)
If only we could get more parents to be so understanding.
I looked over at the Advocate (http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender (http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender)). Two articles about Leelah caught my eye.
1. An article about Leelah's mother's explanations of what happened (http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2015/01/03/mother-transgender-teen-who-killed-self-speaks-out) So far, I've only seen references to Leelah's mother's comments. Does anyone know if her father had anything to say? If, as I suspect, the family is conservative or evangelical/fundamentalist, the father would have had ultimate say in things.
2. Apparently Dan Savage is demanding that Leelah's parents be prosecuted. IMHO, this is ridiculous. For all that I feel that they are responsible, I don't think legal action against them would help anything. What's needed IMHO is for the public at large to start considering it obvious that rejection of a child's transgender identity is abusive and not acceptable. Social pressure, once in place, will be far more effective than any number of prosecutions.
If you feel like you want to support her parents, read this, a post she made on ->-bleeped-<- just months ago:
https://www.->-bleeped-<-.com/r/asktransgender/comments/2km6yt/is_this_considered_abuse/
If you still do, ok then.
Quote from: Cindy on January 04, 2015, 02:07:48 AM
Suicide in NEVER an answer.
As someone who spent a number of years considering suicide on a daily basis and still sometimes wonders if staying alive was the right choice, I'm going to disagree with you.
If you have not personally experienced what a particular suicidal person is going through, or at least been there at their side while they're going through it, you aren't in a position to judge whether suicide was the right choice for them.
Standing on the sidelines saying, "suicide is not an answer" alway strikes me as awfully privileged; like someone standing on the side of a raging river telling someone caught in the rapids "drowning is not an answer."
Quote from: Asche on January 04, 2015, 10:15:51 PM
As someone who spent a number of years considering suicide on a daily basis and still sometimes wonders if staying alive was the right choice, I'm going to disagree with you.
If you have not personally experienced what a particular suicidal person is going through, or at least been there at their side while they're going through it, you aren't in a position to judge whether suicide was the right choice for them.
Standing on the sidelines saying, "suicide is not an answer" alway strikes me as awfully privileged; like someone standing on the side of a raging river telling someone caught in the rapids "drowning is not an answer."
I would agree with this. I've been in some pretty bad spots in my life due to gender dysphoria. I remember thinking about death/suicide on a constant basis from 06 to 08. I remember being out for walks countless times and I would see a semi or a bus flying down the road and I wanted to jump out in front of it so damn bad. But, I never went through with it. Spending everyday wanting to die and not doing something about it is just as hard as going through with it. The only thing that kept me around was the fact that I am a naturally stubborn person. But at the time, I saw it as a curse. If I wasn't like that, I would have been another statistic years ago. Sure, those feelings aren't around anymore (at least not that severity.). But, now when I get a very rare suicidal thought, I can push it completely out of my mind and shake it off.
But, to completely forget what that was like and how it felt wouldn't work either. I need to keep it in mind so I can appreciate how things have changed. It's because things changed as they did, is why I can get up and face the day and be glad that I'm here.
But when I read about stories like this, I would never think to myself: "Wow. What a coward they are.". That's completely the wrong way to approach it. Also, I don't really think it's fair to lay blame on someone that never had any contact with someone that goes through with something like that. You can't blame someone for an abstract idea such as not sticking up for someone that they never knew.
Her parents actions are not that uncommon, neither are Leelah's. This is the thing that needs to be fixed.
But to say her parents aren't culpable, that they can use their religious beliefs like a shield and blame can just slide right off their backs. No I don't agree with that. These things happen commonly (transphobic abuse, suicide) because society hasn't put it's foot down and said no yet. I don't think it's a bad thing that finally it is trying to say no. I don't think the outrage against her parents is misplaced.
The thing I worry about is the energy being put into the backlash. I feel like that energy could be put to better use fixing society, creating a network of support, maybe creating avenues for trans children to emancipate themselves from abusive parents. Idk... something. Leelah's cause is a lost cause because she is gone. Her parents cause is a lost cause because they stopped being relavent when Leelah left. Changing their minds doesn't do s*** at this point.
I agree suicide is not ever the answer, but I will not sit here and victim blame. She was the victim of an abusive home, she got stuck in a bad place and she didn't get through it. It isn't her fault. No.
We can blame the religion all we want, but in the end blaming an institution is about as productive as blaming a building. Ultimately, we have to look to human beings. If a parent is given the choice between a pastor's opinion and their child's well-being, humanity is supposed to kick in. Above all things, parents, your job is to love and protect your children. If you can't do that, you have lost your humanity in the deepest and most profound way. Let's not assume people to be mindless sheep, like they come under some spell and then somehow can be washed clean from responsibility, and we have to blame some hypnotic entity with magic powers. People should have brains, and empathy, and an ability to see right from wrong. If you can't do that, you have failed the most basic tests of being a human being. Don't blame a church or an institution. That's a cop out. Blame an actual person, or a group of people. Please.
So yeah, I do blame her parents. I do blame anybody that helped brainwash her parents. But yet, I don't want to focus my horror or rage against them. I want to take it and point it in a direction that might help the living. Idk yet where that might be, but this really has affected me and has made me even reconsider how I live my life. I want to make a difference somehow, and I don't want to lose this feeling. And I certainly don't want to spend it all on some now-irrelevant ignorant bigots.
Quote from: Asche on January 04, 2015, 10:15:51 PM
Quote from: Cindy on January 04, 2015, 02:07:48 AM
Suicide in NEVER an answer.
As someone who spent a number of years considering suicide on a daily basis and still sometimes wonders if staying alive was the right choice, I'm going to disagree with you.
If you have not personally experienced what a particular suicidal person is going through, or at least been there at their side while they're going through it, you aren't in a position to judge whether suicide was the right choice for them.
Standing on the sidelines saying, "suicide is not an answer" alway strikes me as awfully privileged; like someone standing on the side of a raging river telling someone caught in the rapids "drowning is not an answer."
Is this the first time I have ever seen a post suggesting my suicide attempts are more validating than yours?
Good lordy Asche.
Have a think about your post!!
thanks for sharing
Quote from: Cindy on January 05, 2015, 03:41:53 AM
Is this the first time I have ever seen a post suggesting my suicide attempts are more validating than yours?
Maybe I'm wrong but I took it in a completely different way. There are so many reasons to *not* go through with suicide, almost as many as there are people considering it. Some get to the precipice, have some epiphany or realization or whatever and from that moment on, nothing in life can ever be that terrible again. In my experience, they are the ones that tend to state that, "suicide is not the answer", because for them it never will be again.
But that's not everyone. That's one personality type, one set of coping mechanisms and one set of life experiences only. The varying degrees of self preservation instinct alone accounts for at least one dimension of the whole thing, but some people back down from ending their lives out of guilt. Some out of fear. Some out of a sudden sense of the ridiculous. And some simply break down. Others stop themselves out of love for their kids or their goldfish...but still hurt and wish they *could* go through with it. For all of those people the words, "Suicide is not the answer" is fair close to meaningless, or at best seen as someone else expressing their own experience, only.
"For me, suicide was not the answer at that time" might reach more people. For someone still contemplating it, even in some tiny little repressed corner of their psyche, "it's not the answer" can be perceived as just another way of telling them they are wrong.
And then there are those like me, who had their epiphany "on the brink", and remembering it for the next 10-15 years helped a LOT to keep me from the brink...but after awhile, Life has continued to bear down and eventually what was once a life-changing miracle becomes like a cheesy rerun.
Quote from: Cindy on January 04, 2015, 02:07:48 AM
You and I are society.
OK I'll throw this in the ring. We are responsible for Leelah's death.
Every time we do not stand up for trans*issues. When we have not been out there shouting that we are normal men and women. Every time we hide and hope no one knows; when we hide our shame?
We are transgender. How about being proud of it rather than furtive?
Hi Cindy!
I hate to say it ... but this may be the first time I feel I strongly disagree with you. Yes, we're part of society. However, and this is admitting that I don't know how things are in Australia, here in America in places like Ohio and Kansas and most of the Midwestern states and especially any state from Texas eastward to the Atlantic coast up as far north as right before you get to Washington DC... a lot of the time it's often
just not safe for us to to do that!
That's why we go on line to find others like us. It's why you hear about people going through transition trying to find ways to hide it because while they want and
need to start and go through the process they also
have to hide it until they're at a point where they can safely come out. It's why a lot of people never admit to being transgender after transitioning (and there are other reasons for that as well ... I can't blame anyone for not being open about it especially in a huge chunk of the U.S.). It's why kids are tormented by parents and therapists in states (almost all states) where conversion therapy (which after reading up on some of what some places do to people is really little more than sanctioned torture), and why we see sooooo many teenagers on this forum
TERRIFIED to come out to family, especially their parents, often instead deciding to wait until turning 18 or even putting it off until they are out of college before even
thinking about transition.
And it gets
A HELL OF A LOT WORSE if you're African American.
It's easy to say "Don't hide and just stand up and be proud" ... but there are some
real consequences for doing that in much of the United States.
For the record, I actually do plan to be publicly open about my transition shortly. I plan to start doing so before I'm even presenting full time by talking about my artwork for college in front of about 40 students, and am working to find a way to display my work publicly. The only thing preventing me from going full time right now even though I don't pass is I can't afford to replace my clothing just yet.
But I can so understand why others want to be more discreet, and I certainly don't blame them.
And to those wanting her parents in prison ... there's no realistic reason to expect her parents to be arrested because under Ohio law, they didn't actually break the law even if we strongly disagree with what they did because we know how much pain that had to put that child through, but the law, and most of America don't. The United States doesn't arrest people based on petitions. The best realistic outcome is to try to use this horrific situation to try to get reparative therapy banned. But the real reality is, even if it was gone before her death ... there's no guarantee that Leelah wouldn't have still killed herself given the state of how U.S. culture often treats trans people even in states with more open laws.
...Fix society indeed. She chose her last words wisely.
Quote from: Amy The Bookworm on January 06, 2015, 03:57:09 PM
Hi Cindy!
I hate to say it ... but this may be the first time I feel I strongly disagree with you. Yes, we're part of society. However, and this is admitting that I don't know how things are in Australia, here in America in places like Ohio and Kansas and most of the Midwestern states and especially any state from Texas eastward to the Atlantic coast up as far north as right before you get to Washington DC... a lot of the time it's often just not safe for us to to do that!
That's why we go on line to find others like us. It's why you hear about people going through transition trying to find ways to hide it because while they want and need to start and go through the process they also have to hide it until they're at a point where they can safely come out. It's why a lot of people never admit to being transgender after transitioning (and there are other reasons for that as well ... I can't blame anyone for not being open about it especially in a huge chunk of the U.S.). It's why kids are tormented by parents and therapists in states (almost all states) where conversion therapy (which after reading up on some of what some places do to people is really little more than sanctioned torture), and why we see sooooo many teenagers on this forum TERRIFIED to come out to family, especially their parents, often instead deciding to wait until turning 18 or even putting it off until they are out of college before even thinking about transition.
And it gets A HELL OF A LOT WORSE if you're African American.
It's easy to say "Don't hide and just stand up and be proud" ... but there are some real consequences for doing that in much of the United States.
For the record, I actually do plan to be publicly open about my transition shortly. I plan to start doing so before I'm even presenting full time by talking about my artwork for college in front of about 40 students, and am working to find a way to display my work publicly. The only thing preventing me from going full time right now even though I don't pass is I can't afford to replace my clothing just yet.
But I can so understand why others want to be more discreet, and I certainly don't blame them.
And to those wanting her parents in prison ... there's no realistic reason to expect her parents to be arrested because under Ohio law, they didn't actually break the law even if we strongly disagree with what they did because we know how much pain that had to put that child through, but the law, and most of America don't. The United States doesn't arrest people based on petitions. The best realistic outcome is to try to use this horrific situation to try to get reparative therapy banned. But the real reality is, even if it was gone before her death ... there's no guarantee that Leelah wouldn't have still killed herself given the state of how U.S. culture often treats trans people even in states with more open laws.
But if we all try to completely blend in and hide ourselves, who will be left to fight for a world where we will no longer have to do that? There is a cycle that must be broken in order for us to achieve our goals. We especially need to do this in Red State America. The more we hide, the less progress we will make.
Let's please keep this thread on topic and not get into a stealth vs. out debate. Please feel free to make a new thread on an appropriate section of the board for that discussion.
Parents of Transgender Children Need to Look at the Research
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/01/08/is-it-child-abuse-to-make-a-trans-child-change/parents-of-transgender-children-need-to-look-at-the-research
Author: Jody L. Herman
Posted: Jan 8th, 2014
"Leelah Alcorn's parents may have thought they were doing the right things for their child, but research shows the experiences Leelah described in her suicide note increase the likelihood of a suicide attempt. Parents need to know what will keep transgender children alive, healthy and happy – and what increases risk."
This is highly unusual and gratifying. I'm a recovering news junkie. I used to read the NY Times from cover to cover. Generally these op eds "debates" cover all sides of the issue. This is the first one I remember seeing that has no one taking the "con" side.
tragic story diverging to another topic locked for review
Homophobic, transphobic parents make abusive homes. Let's help LGBT kids get out
Jessica Valenti
Monday 5 January 2015 07.30 EST
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/05/homophobic-transphobic-parents-abusive-homes-lgbt-kids (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/05/homophobic-transphobic-parents-abusive-homes-lgbt-kids)
For a young LGBT person, living with a rampantly homophobic or transphobic guardian – with people who deny, hate or try to change a child's gender identity through punishment or coercion – means enduring child abuse.
So in the wake of trans teenager Leelah Alcorn's suicide – and knowing the appallingly high suicide and self-harm rates in the trans community – we need more tools for young LGBT people to survive and thrive, including increased options for legal emancipation from abusive parents.
As a parent, I'm of two minds on this.
Yes, I agree that suppressing a child's gender identity and orientation is harmful and could be classified as child abuse.
However, parents already deal with the nightmare that any little thing, especially a false accusation, could end up with child protective services being called and severe consequences. Kids being taken away is not really easy on a parent, and some states are absolutely ruthless. Ask any parent who has dealt with NJ DCF/DYFS. They have virtually unlimited power, and even when they are clearly wrong, court battles can sometimes only result in a partial resolution. What's more, unaccountable bureaucrats run the show, and they don't seem like they care about families.
For example, a friend of mine posted a picture (on facebook) of his son with a rifle in his hand. It was unloaded and he was supervised by his father who is a firearm safety instructor and has a federal firearm dealer's license (which requires extensive background checks). The guns are locked up at home in a safe otherwise. But someone saw this, called the cops and DCF got involved. They came to his house and wanted to search the home. He refused under the 4th and 5th amendment. The cops and DCF tried to lie their way in but he called his attorney (also a friend of mine) and eventually they had to leave because they couldn't get a warrant.
As for kids and guns - people have their opinions, but in reality kids have been handling firearms for a darn long time. Kids as young as 10 years old can get a hunting license even in the most progressive of states (like NJ), and teenagers involved in scouting and other activities do rifle target shooting for merit badges and similar.
Another case is Justina Pelletier. She was the teen who was being treated for mitochondrial disease, but a hospital in Boston thought she was mentally ill and faking it, so the state took her, stopped her treatment and she grew progressively worse. Eventually the parents were able to get her back, but not after media attention and public outcry.
So I'm not entirely convinced that something like letting the Government seize kids from transphobic and homophobic households is the answer.
What I do support is the banning of so-called conversion therapy. I also support access to transgender hormone therapy like how birth control for teens is handled in some states. Let trans teens get puberty blockers and access to counseling via the school system with optional parental notification, not permission.
But I think the biggest weapon against this is bringing people over to our side. It will be a slow process and not 100% but it has to be done that way. That is the best way. I am firm believer in parents parenting their kids, not the state.
Otherwise what will happen is even more child abuse. I think that if we tighten the screws on parents, truly abusive parents will take drastic action like hiding their kids from society with home schooling, or shipping them off to relatives in other states who have looser laws against abuse.
This post will contain all threads concerning this subject.
Heart of a girl
By Albert Serna, Jan 22, 2014
https://medium.com/substance/heart-of-a-girl-bcbbda8cfe7 (https://medium.com/substance/heart-of-a-girl-bcbbda8cfe7)
The tragic loss of transgender teen Leelah Alcorn unites a community and fosters a new awareness of trans-identity.
The powerful pose of a young confidant woman in a dress spread like wildfire across the internet; she held herself with grace and beauty looking into the mirror. The selfie that would be used to depict the 17-year-old Leelah Alcorn after her untimely suicide became a rallying cry for those who seek to end discrimination but there was still something horribly wrong. The shock and heartbreak rippled across social media after she posted her suicide note on Tumblr. People could not understand how it had happened until her family became vocal about the tragedy and it became more clear that she was not accepted in her home life.
Quote from: AlbertPBJ on January 24, 2015, 01:40:03 PM
Here is the link to an article I wrote about the suicide of Leelah Alcorn and the community's reaction. Please give it a read and let me know what you think. Feedback would be much appreciated. Thank you.
Post modified by news staff to meet forum requirements