Susan's Place Transgender Resources

It appears as if there is a lot of interest in low dose, so it would be helpful to have an evolving discussion on the topic. Low dose was mentioned quite a bit when I first joined over a year ago, but I could not find much information outside of the helpful information posted by luna nyan. I did not want to intrude on her personal topic on low dose HRT, so I have started a new topic where everyone can post information about their thoughts and experiences. It is unsettling for me to propose something like this not knowing how well this would be received, so I could use your support.

First, I could use help on the definition of low dose. I have always thought that application of a low dose is for those intending to receive some relief from gender dysphoria with some degree of feminization/masculinization of the body. The dose is lower compared to doses for those intending to transition quickly. Please help by adding to or changing any part of the definition.

It would be helpful to have those that have been on low dose HRT to write about their experience. Please keep with forum rules and do not include dosages.

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.

3. Changes with low dose.

4. If changed to transitioning dose, explain reasons for change as well as length on low dose before change in dose.

5. Other thoughts.

First entry  ;).

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

Ten months now on low dose. It was needed. Dysphoria was crippling and my mind would not shut down. Lack of sleep, chest tightness, headaches, heavy drinking, constant crying out of sadness. Something needed to change.

2. Describe to what extent has low dose helped with dysphoria.

The second night on HRT I was able to sleep for over eight hours which was something I had not experienced in months. Since then, it has worn off to some degree, and I still have difficulties from time to time with dysphoria. Considering where I was before HRT, I am in a good place and dysphoria is usually manageable.

3. Changes with low dose.

I still present as male for family reasons, but I have experienced significant changes. Breasts are developing quite well and a shrinking waist keeps me from wearing fitted shirts. My waist has shrunk from 35 inches to 31.5 inches, but some of that was due to weight loss. Soft skin, heightened emotions, and low libido are changes that I enjoy very much. No fat development around hips. I have not observed a large degree of muscle loss, but I stay active. When taking measurements, there is some loss around thighs, calves, and arms since starting. It is easy for me to keep weight manageable.

4. If changed to transitioning dose, explain reasons for change as well as length on low dose before change in dose.

Still holding on to low dose, but it is difficult. I must remain patient knowing that my time will come. Timing is not right for now.

5. Other thoughts.

HRT was adopted as a means for survival, and the choice of transitioning/not transitioning was not considered at the time. I tried anti depressants and anti anxiety meds prior, but they did not work because they were not fixing the root cause of my problems. Since starting the low dose, I do feel that I have time to take transitioning slowly and may choose not to transition for quite some time. Hoping that I can still manage dysphoria which is a concern that never leaves. It is still painful to think back at when my dysphoria was unmanageable, and I do not want to go back there. Neither does my wife.

I have always had soft male features and have been out as female many times with no strange stares or double takes from others. I wonder how people see me now after all of the changes. No obvious male fail at this point when presenting as male. No unwanted side effects. Lab tests are good.

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

I was on low dose - very low dose - for the first six months or so.  Chose low dose for a number of reasons.  First, it helped appease the spouse, who was nervous about the whole endeavor.  Second, I too was somewhat unsure as to whether I was actually trans at that time, and I had been told by numerous sources that low dose is a great diagnostic tool: you'll know within a very short period of time whether HRT is "right".  I could have listened to my therapist for months saying, "Yeah, Brenda, you sound pretty trans to me," but until I took the concrete step of trying low dose HRT, I would never have been convinced.

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.

Within days, I felt euphoric.  I have never looked back.  Dysphoria went from 11 to about 2.  There's still occasional spikes, but it's nothing like it used to be.

3. Changes with low dose.

I gradually ramped things up from ultra low to low to medium to transitioning.  I doubt I could have ever stayed on low dose given its ability to make me extremely happy with how I felt.  Addictive stuff.  Physical changes: sore nipples after a week or so, but slow boob growth.  My skin softened, my face started to get a little rounder, and my backside got slightly larger.  Strength plummeted.  No changes in body, face, or head hair growth.  Eyes began to sparkle ;).

4. If changed to transitioning dose, explain reasons for change as well as length on low dose before change in dose.

Upped the dose because although the low dose calmed my mind a little, it made me realize how badly I wanted a female body.  Low dose stabilized my mind firmly in the "female" side of things, but the result was that I still looked male for all intents and purposes.  Had to push forward with changing my body more aggressively.

5. Other thoughts.

I highly recommend a few months of low dose HRT for anyone questioning their gender identity (from a MtF perspective, at least - no experience with what low dose T does for FtM guys.)  It causes virtually no physical changes (although there are those who experience big changes), but the mental effects are astounding.  It's a harmless but effective baby step to see whether transition would be the right path for you to take; no need to jump in at the deep end with full-strength HRT, immediate electrolysis, bras and high heels.  Low dose is essentially undetectable to anyone but the patient, and is a very private, simple means to explore the realities of transition without outing yourself to anyone.

Thanks for that information. All the information given so far has helped me a great deal in understanding the impact that low dosage can have. I am more than ever ready to start my journey.

A couple of the threads intertwine - loss of strength. Right from the time I came out to my wife, I have been wondering about how I could go forward competing in tennis, on the men's team. Our thoughts, my wife and I, as we have had my discussions around transition, is that I need to listen to my inner voice and all she has to say, trust in my skills and play smarter not harder. I can not try to out muscle them but I can out smart them. This will apply to many of the physical tasks we need to do where previously we could rely on that bit of strength, not that I have ever had great upper body strength.

I will say up front that my experience does not appear to be typical, but it is one possible outcome nevertheless...

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

I started on a very low dose (within the range of what is prescribed to menopausal cis women) with the intention of ramping up to a higher dose gradually; in other words, neither I nor my endocrinologist actually *intended* me to be on a long-term low dose HRT regimen. However, at the three-month checkup the liver test returned alarming results suggesting that I was taking too much HRT, and the original low dose was cut in half; I have been on that halved/'very very low" dose for five years next month.

(Full disclosure, I also had GRS about two and a half years ago, which led to another year of 3-month retests but didn't change the dose in the end.)

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.

98%, and GRS fixed the last 2%. ;) But, again, for me this ended up being a "transitioning dose."

3. Changes with low dose.

Essentially, full transition; I was outed by breast growth at work at four months (42C then, 42DDD now), could not pass as male at six months, and have been fully transitioned including at work for 4.5 years.

5. Other thoughts.

The main reason I'm answering this is to be a warning example, basically - you cannot control which changes you'll get or the speed at which they happen. I'd intended to take things much slower, but the facial and body changes wouldn't allow it.

HRT is a fairly individual thing so low dose HRT is a somewhat nebulous thing to define.

Low dose HRT could be defined as the administration of cross gender hormone therapy at a dosage far lower than that which would be considered optimal for transition for an individual.  This may be for therapeutic purposes (relief from gender dysphoria) or diagnostic purposes.   Dosages would be considered 1/2 or lower that which would be usually used in a transition situation.

As my personal thread has plenty of information, I won't repeat my experiences here.  I would say the Jenna is an example of an extreme in one outcome whereas I'm  an example of the other.  People considering low dose HRT have to be prepared for all consequences of doing so.

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

I started on a low dose of Spiro in late August, and tapered up pretty quickly to what might be considered a medium dose. It dehydrated me, so I stopped. I started on a very low dose of  Estrace in September and a very low dose of Androcur in October. I've been on the same doses since, but I'm going to ask my doctor to increase them at my next appointment. My doctor wants to take it slow because of my low body weight (45ish lbs).

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.

It has helped tremendously. More specifically, what it has done is remove any lingering doubts I had, because it feels so RIGHT.

3. Changes with low dose.

I suffer(ed?) from cystic acne and very oily skin, both of which ceased to be an issue within 2 months of starting Androcur (it had also cleared up on Spiro). I still get the occasional pimple on my face, but nothing serious. My hair is much less greasy, because there's less oil. Before, I couldn't go two days without washing my hair, now I can go a week if I wanted to. My skin has become more fragile. I've been noticing strange nicks, almost like paper cuts, forming on my hands and arm (but I don't remember hitting anything). My body hair growth has slowed. Breast development started in late December after I had been off E for a week because my prescription lapsed before I could get into my doctor. A few days later, my nipples were very sore, and they were bigger, darker, and perpetually erect. They're soft now, not very sore, and a bit smaller than they were. Is this normal to start?

4. If changed to transitioning dose, explain reasons for change as well as length on low dose before change in dose.

I'm hoping that my doctor will double my dosage at my next appointment, but even then it would still be considered low dose. It's tricky given my weight. What could be a low dose for a regular girl could be a transition dose for me. I just want to slowly increase until I find my optimal dose. I'm hoping to get an orchie over the summer, so my dosages will always be low.

5. Other thoughts.

I think I covered it all. :)

I just find this all so encouraging and helpful! Thanks for sharing your experiences! Seems like so many ways to get there.

Like the others have said Low dose E has really helped calm it down to a point it is only a slight distraction now after 15 months with no T blockers.
One thing I really love is the mental changes that have occurred. Physically it is the skin and reduction of body hair. It seems I am very responsive to E as I have C cups and they continue to grow rampantly.
It's getting very hard to hide the changes but those in the know, it is obvious.
His days are numbered even on low dose but I love her and wont hold her back.

Jen

Quote from: Stochastic on January 04, 2015, 08:30:42 AM
1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

A couple of months, started as an experiment. Became partially dr supervised (he ordered the tests, checked made sure I wasn't killing myself)

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.
It helped immensely.

3. Changes with low dose.
Low dose was like full dose, softer skin, scent change, breast buds, decreased libido.

4. If changed to transitioning dose, explain reasons for change as well as length on low dose before change in dose.
Two months. I changed because I was self medding and decided to make it official and go all the way. I also came out and decided to be me instead of stuffing me back in the box.

5. Other thoughts.
Have a good doctor or nurse practitioner. Don't self med, the hormones are CHEAPER officially from US pharmacies anyway and you won't kill yourself or make any underlying health issues worse.

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.
I have now been on a low dose for nearly 2 years. The reason for choosing it was work pressures (I travel and do a lot of customer meetings)

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.
At first it was great, but once my body got used to the low dosage (it was very low), basically my dysphoria  broke out again. Over the period of nearly 24 times, my Doctor has increased the low dosage - 8 times. I am now on a mid low to transition dose, although I have only been on Oestrogen (No Spiro) tablets which I take twice a day. My T Level is now just 0.9 and my Endo reckons I am hormonally now female.

3. Changes with low dose.
Over the period  physical changes have been rounding out of my cheeks, skin has become super soft and  very female type., but I need to moisturise a lot, I bruise very easily now. Some medical problems are less e.g. my arthritis in my knees has improved. My breasts are now 42B heading towards 42C. My nipples are permanently erect and very noticeable under a T Shirt and my aureola about 3 times their original size. I have added 2.5" to my bottom and hips and my bottom cheeks are quite plump now. Male trousers don't fit anymore, so I now wear women's jeans and shorts and women's pants. They all fit much better. I am also losing weight, but fatty tissue increasing in female locations. I now look great in a skirt or dress with my new figure. Body hair is decreasing and much slower in growth. Even facial hair is growing much slower, but I have also had Electrolysis and Laser. I can go 3 days without shaving. Libido has dropped dramatically. No morning wood for 18 months.. When I get orgasm its a whole body experience. Lots of mental and thought changes. I am noticing men more. Body odour changed - now a more musky feel. Energy levels are down. I also get PMS symptoms about once a month, and get depressed. Luckily only lasts a couple of days. Male drive dramatically reduced, but this has affected my work output (so not so good).  Tend to daydream a bit more. I love shopping for clothes and make yup and am very interested in shopping and looking at the latest fashions in magazines (this used to bore me).  I find I have become more of a tactile person. These days I am happy to listen to a conversation  with guys talking and occasionally asking questions, unlike before where I felt a need to dominate the discussions. I have become very girly and definitely submissive in my female self.

4. If changed to transitioning dose, explain reasons for change as well as length on low dose before change in dose.
Increased dosage, because breakout of dysphoria as body got used to Oestrogen and T levels  fluctuated.

5. Other thoughts.
For me the low dosage had to be the way to go, but  I have dropped back a couple of times, when my  energy & drive affected my work ability. I need my income.

Thank you for all the information!  Everyone. Does a low dose shrink your prostrate?

I think anything that reduces androgen will shrink your prostate.

I am, again, atypical in my responsiveness. But I had a prostate that was apparently barely visible to the surgeon, and cannot be located by any doctor doing a digital exam (vaginally or otherwise).

Thank you That's great.

hello ladies,

somehow missed this thread but if not too late i'd like to pitch in too...

1. i have been on a low dose E regimen for about 3 months now. like brenda said, the intention was to start off slow and see if it calms down my GD and, per therapy, use it as a diagnostic tool to see whether i want to take transition further.

2. i sleep somewhat better, i have less apprehension and i feel calmer if this makes any sense.

3. only 2 changes so far: a surprising decrease in libido and slight breast (but no nipple) growth. nothing else really noticeable as of yet except maybe paying more attention to boys.

4. not sure about that yet but this stuff is addictive. i love how it makes me feel more feminine inside. i have started to wear a bra (A cup as i had a bit of a head-start) and i am now considering "doubling the low dose"

5. i think this approach is right for me. i don't mind living for a while in a "middle" zone. my concern as i contemplate the road to womanhood, is that ramping up the dosage might result in obvious physical changes (which i would welcome) too fast and force me to make a decision sooner than i might want.
again as brenda says, it is a great way to gradually become more female without outing oneself too soon.

i'd love to get more real life input from other girls in the same situation.

Over one year on low dose. Although the dose is considered a lower dose, effectiveness is more than expected but not unwelcome. I have said before that one should look at low dose as the start of a transition as opposed to a short-term means to address dysphoria. The urge to transition is difficult to handle at times, but I must go slow for family reasons which I feel is the best approach for my situation.

Now for the numbers. T on my last measure was 66 ng/dl and Free T 11 pg/ml (1.7%). This was somewhat surprising to me as I was on a very low dose of spiro, but looking back, it should not because of the feminizing effects. Waist down to 30 inches (from 35 inches pre-HRT), but it is difficult to tell how much was due to HRT or weight loss. Breast circumference has also reduced since its "peak" :'(. There is a small reduction in neck, arms, thighs, calves, and hip measurements since starting HRT. Breast was the only measure to increase, but as stated earlier, shrunk a little from its prime. BTW, moderate dose of E with no additional meds other than spiro.

When comparing my experience to others here, I have not found it difficult to lose weight since going on HRT. I eat healthy and try to stay active, but I do not severely limit what I eat. Surprised by the big drop in cholesterol and LDL at my latest doctor visit, so I must be doing something right.

Ladies,

I too will be starting hopefully very soon a low dose HRT, as I have my first endo appointment in a week.

Since I am 61 Y.O. a have been told that my body measurements will probably change very little.  Would it be possible for you to post your age or PM if you feel more comfortable?  My waist is also 35 inches and I would love it if it would go down to 30 as yours went, but I do want increases on the breast, hips thighs and of course booty measurements.

Emily

Quote from: Stochastic on April 17, 2015, 10:28:18 AM
T on my last measure was 66 ng/dl and Free T 11 pg/ml (1.7%). This was somewhat surprising to me as I was on a very low dose of spiro, but looking back, it should not because of the feminizing effects. Waist down to 30 inches (from 35 inches pre-HRT), but it is difficult to tell how much was due to HRT or weight loss.

Spiro decreases water retention. Also, studies do seem to indicate that enough E keeps one from gaining too much weight and that is why, after menopause, ciswomen gain weight.

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

Doctor's orders. Started on half doses of what she considered full transition doses of spiro and estradiol. I have been on this half dose for a month and a half, and just jumped up to full transition doses. My doctor and therapist both said that the first month is used as a diagnostics tool, and how a person reacts to the hormones is a good indication of whether continuing transition is the correct choice.

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.

The dysphoria is still there, but not as bad as it was prior to HRT. I have been feeling really good since starting, and this consistent good feeling seems to overpower the intense feelings of dysphoria.

3. Changes with low dose.

The first thing I noticed was libido. My libido was outrageously high prior to starting HRT, and I immediately noticed a drop. All the hardware still works fine, just not as many spontaneous erections and a much clearer mind throughout the day because of it. I also noticed a very consistent good feeling, I can't remember such a long period of time where I have been happy. About 2 weeks I noticed my breasts becoming soft, and at 3 weeks my nipples became sore and erect. Slow breast growth since, starting to be noticeable under tight shirts. Most recent, probably about 5 weeks, started becoming more emotional. I start crying quite often because something upsets me or makes me happy. No noticeable changes in fat distribution or loss of strength. I am very active and eat pretty well, and my weight has stayed the same. I am 27 by the way.

4. If changed to transitioning dose, explain reasons for change as well as length on low dose before change in dose.

Saw the doctor at 6 weeks to switch to full doses of spiro and estradiol, essentially taking twice a day rather than once a day. I feel really good and am now fully confident in transitioning, so switching to full dose was a logical choice for me. Doc says the main thing to watch for with full dose is to eliminate morning erections.

5. Other thoughts.

The diagnostic purposes of the low doses really built up my confidence that the path I am taking is the correct one. I think it is a great way to get started if you are still unsure of yourself.

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.
I was on low dose testosterone for the first month/4 weeks of starting HRT. My doctor does not allow anyone to start HRT on a full dose due to the fatigue and other symptoms that frequently accompany the introduction of new hormones to the body. Based on other people's experiences, I would have asked for a low dose for at least a month even if it had not been recommended.

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.
Within a few days of starting, my mood had improved dramatically. My overall mental state was much better. It felt like the hormones were correcting everything from the inside out, and my dysphoria was very low.

3. Changes with low dose.
I started on topical testosterone and within 3 days was experiencing changes. I had a minor voice drop in the first week. My body hair started to fill in. I had large increases to my appetite. My libido actually went down, which is the opposite of what is supposed to happen.

4. If changed to transitioning dose, explain reasons for change as well as length on low dose before change in dose.
I stayed on low dose for 30 days before switching to a full dose. I had enough changes to know that I wanted more, and I hadn't experienced any negative side effects that would have deterred me from increasing the dose.

5. Other thoughts.
I think low dose is excellent to start with for a lot of reasons, and a good way for people to gauge if the effects are truly something that they want. Within a few days, I knew that this was what I had needed for a long time. I also knew that I wanted as much change as possible, so I knew I wouldn't be staying on low dose treatment.

I think it is a great long term option for people whose dysphoria is more of an overall thing that anything localized. It could provide them with more mental comfort. I also think it is great for people who identify as genderqueer, agender, etc. It could perhaps also be helpful for people who are unable or not looking to make a complete physical transition, but would still like to feel like the gender they identify as.

Quote from: Emily R on April 17, 2015, 10:40:42 AM
Ladies,

I too will be starting hopefully very soon a low dose HRT, as I have my first endo appointment in a week.

Since I am 61 Y.O. a have been told that my body measurements will probably change very little.  Would it be possible for you to post your age or PM if you feel more comfortable?  My waist is also 35 inches and I would love it if it would go down to 30 as yours went, but I do want increases on the breast, hips thighs and of course booty measurements.

Emily

Early 40s. Also, 6 feet tall if that helps. I love looking down at the smooth hour glass shape. While my thighs have decreased, they have taken a great feminine shape, and my wife is jealous of my thigh gap ::) :laugh:. No hips which is disappointing. Overall, I am very happy with where I am at. I hope low dose treats you well.

Quote from: KayXo on April 17, 2015, 11:09:36 AM
Spiro decreases water retention. Also, studies do seem to indicate that enough E keeps one from gaining too much weight and that is why, after menopause, ciswomen gain weight.

Interesting. I appreciate the info.

Stochastic,

thanks for the additional info and as a matter of fact I am also 6 feet tall.   May I ask you how much you weight?  I am at 176 in underwear, used to be around 230 until a year ago.

Thanks

      Hi,
       Is anybody on a low does of minivelli


      Thanks janis

I started at 32 years old, and I'm on Vivelle Dot (which is basically the original, very slightly larger version of the new Minivelle).

I got my E today! Will start it tomorrow! This is the day I have waiting for! I will let you all know how it goes.

ftmax, I was hoping that someone would be able to discuss low dose testosterone. Love the ticker. Oh the PBR days!!!

Quote from: Emily R on April 17, 2015, 02:42:38 PM
Stochastic,

thanks for the additional info and as a matter of fact I am also 6 feet tall.   May I ask you how much you weight?  I am at 176 in underwear, used to be around 230 until a year ago.

Thanks

Wow. That is a lot of weight. Good for you. I was at a high of 207 and dropped to 178 prior to starting low dose. Now I am around 163 which is a good weight as I am active and have good muscle tone.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 17, 2015, 05:52:17 PM
I started at 32 years old, and I'm on Vivelle Dot (which is basically the original, very slightly larger version of the new Minivelle).

Same and it is doing quite well for me.

Quote from: islandgirl on April 17, 2015, 06:57:32 PM
I got my E today! Will start it tomorrow! This is the day I have waiting for! I will let you all know how it goes.

Congrats. I hope to hear back from you.

Hi to all

as to the answers most of you girls write, I would align.

i started after being 46 years old, so this could be considered a veteran's testimony - maybe gets helpful to some.


My therapist started me on not-so-low dose, full AA + finasteride then 2 weeks later directly on injections twice a month,
In 3 months, nice and sore A size, definitely showing through T shirts, and beginning to bounce when jogging ; hence use of sporting bra, which is perfect. And an amazing experience.
First blood test came with perfect T levels, and interesting E level of more than 267. But this one has to be averaged with another, measured at the other end of the IM cycle.
So far, emotional changes : YES ; weight loss, mild.
Waist thinning, surprisingly, yes, but no bigger hips.
Some muscle reduction, and a super-soft skin.
And.... food cravings. found myself like some monster rushing to the fridge and gobbling up smoked salmon at 10 AM.  >:-)

Have a nice day.

This is such a useful thread.

X

I just find it intriguing that so many people know what low dose is, when that question cannot be asked.  I have scoured the net for a year and have yet to find any reliable dosage table, with the exception of the old standard that is now considered old beyond belief.  For me the ranges usually fall into two catagories:  The Flaky and the Old.  So to "know" what low, med, and high is.....well I suuuure would like to know.  It's kinda like the Harrison Ford adventures.   Dani

HRT dosage is adjusted for the individual till a desired target range iis met.  What that target is depends on the endo in question, but would generally be analogous to hormone levels of the desired gender.

Low dose HRT would then be a dosage at which the serums levels would be lower than the target range for transition.  That level would be somewhat arbitrary between the individual and endo, dependant on how much relief that person attains from their dysphoria.

Dose tables for medications are arbitrary to a certain degree for adults for simplicity of prescription.  Most scripts for children are by body weight, whereas in adults, there is a lot more leeway due to greater tolerance in the system.

This was something I once considered but then the trans feelings died down and I thought I was in a comfortable place.  Unfortunately, this hasn't lasted long and not only are the feelings back, I wonder if I'm dealing with some of the indirect symptoms of gender dysphoria.  It's not extreme, but if there's a chance I can more at ease with myself, then I'd like to take it (through all the proper channels, of course).

I've called up my centre and asked to see my counsellor again.  I'll see what happens from there.

Ladies,

I finally joined the club of E users on April 27 after seeing my endo for the first time earlier that day.  She prescribed half the normal dosage of a CIS female and nothing else after reviewing my blood work results from a few weeks earlier that my GP had done and which I had the results with me.  We made and appointment  to see me again in three months in which she said she will prescribe spiro.

I am very happy to finally start my low dosage trip, but I can see where this could be like and addiction where you want more to see the results sooner, but coolers head must prevail as my wife and I have discussed for everything sake.

I had not posted earlier trying to decide if I should start my own personal transition, but decided that if we all participate on this one it will help all of us and those who will come in the future looking for advice.  I will try to post on at least on a monthly basis and whenever I notice any change in my body or attitude that could possibly be caused by the E.

On that note I can say that I have had a serious case of tinnitus on my left ear for about 30 years now as a result of the retaining fluid which caused deafness on that ear and the tinnitus has decreased significantly or my awareness of it has diminished maybe by the sense of calm induced by E.  GREAT IMPROVEMENT!

Well, until the next one....

Emily

Emily congrats on starting HRT. Hugs
Mariah

Congrats Emily! Your have entered the next stage of your journey. Look forward to hearing from you.

Quote from: Newgirl Dani on April 24, 2015, 12:12:39 AM
I just find it intriguing that so many people know what low dose is, when that question cannot be asked.  I have scoured the net for a year and have yet to find any reliable dosage table, with the exception of the old standard that is now considered old beyond belief.  For me the ranges usually fall into two catagories:  The Flaky and the Old.  So to "know" what low, med, and high is.....well I suuuure would like to know.  It's kinda like the Harrison Ford adventures.   Dani

Haa good question, think the answer is: the Dr/Endo tells you I'm starting you on a low dose, lets see how you go, and come back in a X months for a blood check and lets see how that is... Well that's what I was told.... Then it was we'll up this a bit and that a bit etc...

Well that's how I believe it anyway  :-\

L Katy

This is kind of my monthly report of my progress after starting on April 27 2015 with E only.

Body hair is growing slower, sometime it feels my that breasts are becoming super sensitive to the t-shirt rubbing against them and last night I was awaken by a pain that I have never felt before coming from my left breast, it was like something was growing inside! ;D ;D ;D

No other changes to report, still have some anxiety and have not had any headaches, depression nor exhaustion.

So far so good

Emily

Hi Ladies
I hope to get my first prescription tomorrow on a low dose of estrogen. My blood test was good and hope to hear that the doctor will call in the prescription tomorrow.
Fingers are crossed.


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Melanie, Good luck and fingers crossed for you. Hugs
Mariah

I got my estrogen prescription and just took my first pill. I can't believe it has happened. All these years have gone by. It's a low dose but it is a dose.

I'll let you know how things progress
Melanie 


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Melanie, Congrats, sit back and enjoy the ride. Hugs
Mariah

Emily
Have you notice any changes to your skin getting softer?
Thank you
Melanie



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Thank you Mariah
I will!


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Hi Melanie;
Yes Low dose does shrink the prostate (well it did in my case) and definitely shrinks the testicles. As I indicated in my original post though is that over time at least for mer I had the dysphoria break out again. As my doctor and therapist explained as my T levels were depressed, the body gets used to the Oestrogen and depending on your level of dysphoria you can get the breakouts occurring. Each time it did my Doctor increased my dosage. Obviously I cannot say what level, but suffice to say that I take 1 tablet twice a day. This seems to keep the dysphoria at bay for me, but it has seemed to speed up the feminisation process. Just in the last month I have had a bunch of  friends comment on how good my complexion is and how soft and radiant my face looks, one woman friend who doesn't know said that she was amazed at how relaxed I looked and that I appeared to have a much younger look. Another man reckoned I looked 10 years younger.  Someone also commented on how I had a sort of dewy look to my face. The downside now is that I reckon I am probably on the cusp or just over the cusp between a low dose and a transition dose, because my work focus, drive and energy/competitiveness seems to have slipped a gear or somewhat, which has without a doubt affected my work. So depending on your decision you will have to weigh up  the need to quell the dysphoria and become suitably feminized, with ones need to earn a living. Of course like many in my ideal world, I would happily fill a housewife role and loved to be looked after by a partner without the worries of having to perform in the commercial world, but unfortunately at my stage in life I doubt if that will ever be a reality. If it ever did, I would happily throw in the towel so as to speak and move rapidly to have BA and BBL to really help me present as 100% female.

I agree with Judith.

It's very easy to drift into ever higher dosages, but it must be tempered by your own intentions.  Are you on low dose to reduce dysphoria to avoid transition?
Or is it for starting a long slow stealth transition?

Personally, I have drifted from low dose to what is effectively a low transition dose, even though my actual pellet dose is half or under compared to what my endo usually gives to those transitioning.

Mentally I feel great - emotionally I'm falling more and more on the female side of things.  Physically, fortunately my changes have been very gradual - I'd be frustrated if I were transitioning, but they are sufficient for me to be careful with clothing selection.

Congrats Emily and Melanie. I hope to hear from you often.

A funny story to follow-up with judithlynn's comment about looking younger. I was a parent-teacher conference last winter. The next day two teachers cornered my son and asked him how old I was. They undershot their original guess by a good number of years. I had to smile when my son told me about it. Hormones are powerful even at low doses.

Luna,

I remember you saying that E is addictive, well i have only been 5 weeks on the lowest dosage and I already feel that I need to go the the lowest trasitioning dosage.  I want to see my body change drastically!

Melanie,

Yes the skin is getting softer, but not only that, I feel more pleasure touching my skin that before. Now I know why women are always touching their legs, it feels sensual.

One week to my therapist appointment and 7 more weeks to the endo appointment.  Let see what she changes dosage wise!

Emily

Also agreeing with what Judith is saying....

In my case I have always been on a lowish level; after a few months, all those years ago, my genitals and my testicles shrank, then my testicles started to move up and out of view after about a year and a half.

My T counts are low (were too low) but now sit around the 1 to 2 mark... E levels are around the 250 to 280 mark on average... so happy with the way things are behaving...

Also I still have to present in male form whilst trying to regain a successful role after over a year out of IT, so its back, for now, to suppressing my FT goals until settled (My worklife history is important to me obtaining a new role, but once a reasonable time has passed I can engage the FT transitioning topic with whoever I get employed by! but being selective there too  :P)

L Katy  :-*

Thanks everyone for your feedback and comments. They mean so much since I am now starting the next part of the journey.

Like many I am starting on a low dose to feel better mentally and to minimize the affects. Even thou Connecticut has transgender protection I need to get through the next three years and get my twin daughters through college with no interruptions in employment. Also I want to ease into this even thou I feel transition is in my future at so point.

Call me crazy but I felt calmer after taking the first dose. That is during the first full day. That tension that I always feel is starting to minimize.

I am glad to hear the candid feed back and do expect the dose to change over time. I am so happy I am at this point in life after so many dark feelings and being scared of letting your family know who you are. Now my wife, three daughters and sister know.  And the support from all of you helped so much. Thank you.

Now but not have done it yet can say I'm going to a support group meeting without having to hide or I going to the Transgender Day Remembrance which I have not yet went to without hiding.

I know this part is off topic but I am finally letting myself out. Sooooo happy!

Thank you all
Melanie   


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Quote from: Emily R on June 03, 2015, 08:36:19 PM
Luna,

I remember you saying that E is addictive, well i have only been 5 weeks on the lowest dosage and I already feel that I need to go the the lowest trasitioning dosage.  I want to see my body change drastically!

Melanie,

Yes the skin is getting softer, but not only that, I feel more pleasure touching my skin that before. Now I know why women are always touching their legs, it feels sensual.

One week to my therapist appointment and 7 more weeks to the endo appointment.  Let see what she changes dosage wise!

Emily

If low dose serves as a diagnostic tool, then I think you have found your answer. Not that there was much doubt to begin with. :laugh: The feel of soft skin is euphoric.

Congrats Melanie! Enjoy your journey!

Emily - You and I are basically on the same schedule. I have my next appointment a week or so before you do. I am contemplating asking for an increase in E. I also am curious as to how the Dutasreide will show in my blood tests. Softer skin, slower hair growth and more emotional! I  sure do not handle stress in the same way! Not much breast development as far as I can determine although I so experience some aching in my breasts from time to time. I have noticed that I do have some regrowth of hair on the top of my head (MPB) but not too much. My hair is still a point of concern. Not to the point of a wig as I am still walking a fine line between androgyny and female while out and about. Electrolysis is a slow process. I have 10, I think. One hour of pain! I have a long way to go. Had a pedi two days ago and for the first time had a bit of colour put on (a very pale pink).

Although I get frustrated with how slow things are progressing, I just keep reminding myself that I at least am heading down the right path and that each day that goes by is a day that I can finally be the woman that I am!

Hi Emily;
I am about your age and on low dose HRT (Oestrogen only) and I have been on HRT for just a little over 2 years. Its not a transition dose, but its probably on the cusp of one. The important thing is you will see changes, but it takes time. I now have breasts, although they are only B Cup and for my upper body I really need to see a large D or DD Cup.  I have also added about 2" to my buttocks and definitely have better projection (I even have stretch marks), but unfortunately I am still overweight despite a lot of exercise and dieting. I passed the pencil test on my breasts about 10 months after starting HRT. Now my nipples are permanently erect, my aurolae about 4 times the size that they were and I have a lot of breast tissue towards the armpits with well rounded breasts, albeit that look small on me. I have also added about 1" to my hips. My face has also changed becoming more rounded and less angular especially on the cheeks. My MPB stopped and I have had some re-growth. Hope this all helps
JudithLynn

Ladies,

It is nice to hear from you JudithLynn, Islandgirl, Stochastic and others to know that I am not the only one that started transitioning late in life, some of you have an earlier start but hearing that hopefully there will be changes in a year or two gives me hope an reduces my dysphoria.  The last few days I have felt that because of my my age and responsibilities to my family i was in a dark hole in which i would never get out, as I want to transition NOW! But your comments make me see the light and they provide hope that I will be there with the changes in the body that I desire, NO, that I need to live as me and not as the old male individual that I have been.  Maybe it is that I dont see myself fully transitioning for another 3 to 4 years and that is a very long time.

What can I say, but that I have felt down and somewhat depressed in the last few days.  I know we all go thru them, it just my turn now...     

Judithlynn, maybe being overweight as you said you were is what giving you the breasts and buttocks.   I am 6 feet tall and currently weight 180 lbs and was at around 168 lbs 6 months ago, I am trying to lose the extra pounds i gained, but I wonder if then I will develop my breasts, thighs, buttocks etc as I want?  I dont know if to stay the same or lose the weight.  May I ask you how tall you are and your weight, maybe PM if you rather not say it here?

Once happy thing I found out today, is that my feet have become smaller, not a lot but my US size 11 shoes fit much better, today I had an oportunity to try a few pairs that I have not worn in a while, and while they were not lose, they fit a lot better and I can actually remove the shoe without having to pull them out by hand.  I secretly have hope that this would happened as I dont want to give up wearing size 11, but having read the medical papers on HRT did not really expected for it to happen.  How about you ladies?

Thank you for the moral support, we are all together in this journey and I would definitely like to meet all of you face to face someday, maybe we could have a "Susan's Girls" unofficial get together at all of the transgenders conferences so that we slowly could meet our sisters face to face regardless how many we have the opportunity to attend.

Thank you all for making me feel better.

Emily

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.
   
    I started low dose spiro and E three weeks ago. I felt I needed to go down this road to give my self the chance of finding the person that I truly am. But I need to present male for an unknown amount of time for the risk of hurting family and friends. I am currently only out to my wife, who is totally supportive.:-)

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.

    I was managing my dysphoria before starting HRT, but I knew if I did not start down this road I would end up not being able to manage it. So to that extent, it has helped me to remain in a good state of mind. I still hate seeing my manly face in the mirror however.:-(

3. Changes with low dose.

    I have not been able to see any physical changes so far. Mentally however I seem to have a harder time separating my male self from my female self. When in a social situation my mind keeps wandering into my feminine side and it makes me somewhat self conscious.

4. If changed to transition dose, explain reasons for change as well as length on low dose before change in dose.

   It is a tough place to be in wanting physical changes as soon as possible, but also wanting to be able to present male for an undetermined amount of time. I plan on taking this journey one day at a time, and to enjoy life for everything it has to offer. We will see, I may up my dosage when I see my endo in 4 months.

5. Other thoughts.

   I am 59 years young and it is nice to see gals my age going through similar experiences. I don't post much, but this is a great thread and I thought I would share my thoughts and experiences.
   
   Hugs,    Stanna
   

I appreciate the updates from everyone for keeping this going. Probably too many to name, but I thank you all. I would like to spend more time responding to the recent posts, but family, work, home, etc., etc., ........ has the majority of my time.

It reads as if there are many late-in-life transitioners using low dose as a way of taking measured steps toward a transition. I was tempted by higher dosages recently at my last check up, but I need to discuss with the remainder of my extended family and then give them time. It feels as if I am riding the brake of a car that wants to go fast.

Now at 15 months on low dose, changes appeared to have leveled-off as my measurements and weight have stayed the same for several months. Good thing my moods are stabilizing as well because I was embarrassingly cranky at times.

Quote from: Emily R on June 06, 2015, 10:44:16 PM
Once happy thing I found out today, is that my feet have become smaller, not a lot but my US size 11 shoes fit much better, today I had an oportunity to try a few pairs that I have not worn in a while, and while they were not lose, they fit a lot better and I can actually remove the shoe without having to pull them out by hand.  I secretly have hope that this would happened as I dont want to give up wearing size 11, but having read the medical papers on HRT did not really expected for it to happen.  How about you ladies?

Possibly due to weight loss? I have not noticed any changes in shoe size. However, my wedding ring slides off the finger easily when it was once very tight. Extending that concept to a foot, I could see very small reductions that would give a little more room in a shoe.

Quote from: Stochastic on June 13, 2015, 07:25:41 AM
Possibly due to weight loss? I have not noticed any changes in shoe size. However, my wedding ring slides off the finger easily when it was once very tight. Extending that concept to a foot, I could see very small reductions that would give a little more room in a shoe.

I don't understand either as I have gain about 10 Lbs (4 Kg) in the last 6 months, but after wearing the shoes I can definitively say that they fit better..  No it is not the one or two sizes some girls have reported , but I wonder if my toes have become thinner allowing more space in the shoe box and making them more comfortable, anyways I am happy but would be happier if I were to loose a full size or two.

Don't worry, I think that there are others including myself that will keep this thread going, sounds like you have outgrown it, as I will probably do too as some point when i have reach my goals or life become more dynamic, but we are grateful to you.   Just drop by occasionally as we would like to hear how you are doing and your progress.

Hugs,

Emily

Shoe size, I was a 13 men's (big feet :( ) . I ordered a pair of Tom's in 13 and the shoe slipped off my foot. I then ordered a 12 and it is loose but stays on. My older sneakers are too big. I have been on full dose hrt 2 years and I never expected this. I am 16 pounds heavier than when I started HRT. Oh, my work shirt sleeves go to my lower palm too.

I'm on LD too... It's been a year and I've had enough changes to allow me to transition without increasing my dose.  I probably will increase my dose for a variety of reasons but the pace has been great and helped me bring along my partner and our kids.  I'll be 18 months LD when I finish transition at work.


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I've been on a low dose for 12 days now and it has helped tremendously with my depression. I know longer go to bed every night wishing God would take and waking up dis appointed he never did.

My skin started to soften a little where I notice it and my facial hair does not grow in as fast. Oh it still comes in but not as much at the end of the day. I love this part.

The best part is the anger has gone! I wish I did this a long time ago.

That's my 12 day update. I'll keep you posted.
Melanie

That is great Melanie,

I am glad you are feeling so much better and anger and the depression has gone away!  The changes to the skin and hair is only the beginning,  you will have more changes coming as you just started.

Emily

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

10 days! I decided to have a bit of a trial and self-medicate for 10 days. (I know - bad idea - save the lecture)
The drive and need to go ahead got too great and I couldn't hold off any longer. I chose low dose because my wife isn't very accepting, plus that's what was available.

I finished the last dose two days ago and now it's all worn off again. Oddly enough the drive to transition hasn't come back to a huge degree yet, but it's building.

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.

A lot! I felt better. More in touch with my feminine side, generally happier, warmer, more connected with people, more empathic. This did come with a downside however - emotions became a lot stronger and I had a major propensity towards crying about things. For the last two days I felt pretty low because of the essential conflict between wanting to run with the drive to transition and the potential unhappiness caused to my wife.

Now that it's worn off again I feel more man than I have in months - I think today I'll go do some DIY stuff, and play some computer games where you run around shoot things.

Look maybe this is all psychological / placebo kinda stuff, but I think there's an essence of truth there.

I definitely prefer the other side, but it's not all upside. Hopefully I can get to grips with the crying if and when I do that again.


3. Changes with low dose.

I smelt different almost immediately (wife noticed). Some breast tenderness. Maybe some skin softness / oil reduction?

4. If changed to transitioning dose, explain reasons for change as well as length on low dose before change in dose.

Not applicable.

5. Other thoughts.

I'd like to go official and go on low dose. I suspect I'll be one of those people who responds with big changes even at very low dose however so it will require a careful weighing up of my life circumstance.

In my current environment I don't think transitioning fully is something I can do quite yet, but I'm hoping that will change.

I thought I was on a low dose to start. 

Thought. 

I started HRT ON 4/20.  My bloodwork before reflected these levels.

T - 415 ng/dl E - <20 pg/mL

Bloodwork done on 6/15

T - 9.8 ng/dl E - 80 pg/mL

Needless to say I am stunned.  I see changes to my body but not my face.  My next Dr. Appt is on 6/24.  Curious to hear what the doctor will say.   I honestly thought that she put me on a low dose to start. 

Dana : You might have been, and are just lucky enough to respond really well to a low dose. :) ("Lucky" because the lower the dose, the less the associated risks will be.) I was and am on a dose low enough that I've seen other trans people cite it as "too low to make a difference," and yet I've had fantastic results; some bodies just respond better to E than others.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on June 20, 2015, 11:32:05 AM
Dana : You might have been, and are just lucky enough to respond really well to a low dose. :) ("Lucky" because the lower the dose, the less the associated risks will be.) I was and am on a dose low enough that I've seen other trans people cite it as "too low to make a difference," and yet I've had fantastic results; some bodies just respond better to E than others.

I guess that's true.  If you wanna PM me we can discuss our versions of low dose

My test results are very similar on LD too


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Here's my one month update. I'm on a low does of just estrogen.

So far there are not dramatic changes. I love the change to my mood. I know longer go to sleep every night wishing God will take me and my stress level is way down. I find I am more affective at work since my mood is so much better.

My facial hair grows I slower which I love!  It seems like my body hair is thinner or at least I think it is.  My fascial features re softening but not dramatically. I have no breaks growth.

Things are going slow like I wanted but in the back of my mind I wish there were more changes but tat this point in my life I am ok.  The biggest reason I went on estrogen was to improve my mood and thoughts and its mission accomplished for that.

I go pickup my refill in a few minutes. We'll see how things go.
Melanie


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Melanie,

Here is my 2 months update a few days late, as the two months anniversary was on June 27.

I too am in a low dose of estrogen via tablet with no  spiro but taking avodart for the prostrate.

I have notice, if this is possible, that my body has gotten used to the estrogen, as the stress has come back somewhat and I am not sleeping as well as I did during the first 6 weeks. I noticed some new black hairs in my beard, and they must be new as all I had left after the laser were the gray hairs. Also my breasts have return to normal and not even a tshirt rubbing causes any sensations, were as on the second week I woke up in the middle of the night with like pins and needles on one of my breast!

I will have some blood work done in a week or so to take to my endo appointment on July 27, and we will know how I am reacting to this low dose. I believe that the endo was going to start prescribing spiro in addition to the same dosage of estrogen, but depending upon the test result i guess she may increase the dosage?


Has anyone else has experience building resistance to the Estrogen?  Is this normal?

Hugs,

Emily

Quote from: Emily R on July 02, 2015, 07:38:06 PM
Has anyone else has experience building resistance to the Estrogen?  Is this normal?

Only if estrogen levels remain TOO constant over time. Some fluctuation is needed, perhaps, to overcome desensitization. Remember too that tests do measure your levels of estradiol but NOT your sensitivity to them so tests can only provide so much information. Hopefully, your doctor will know what to do and provide an explanation. :)

I think I am a little to early on to experience any sign of resistance. I will be meeting my endo next week for my six month check. I have been on spiro for six months, E for three and dutaseride for about a moth. I am very curious about my levels. I am looking for an increase in E, but will wait to seem what my doctor has to say.

Effects for far:
- softening of skin
- body and facial hair growth has slowed down. Days between shaving have increased.
- I have noticed some regrowth on my head (MPB) just a little!
- softening or change in facial features.
- my ability to handle stress, just moved, seems to be not as good. I am all over the place.
- no sign of breast development. I have, at times, felt a pain in my breasts, but never consistent and may be wishful thinking.

I went into the this slow transition by choice. I am rethinking this at this point. At least the rate. I am wanting to speed things up a bit. On another note, came out to two more friends yesterday. Old running mates. They were both very supportive.

If the little blue pill works even in low doses the urge to increase will be hard to hold back.  I've increased once (still on LD) and expect to go to full transition dose before year end.


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Quote from: Melanie CT on July 02, 2015, 10:00:41 AM
I love the change to my mood. I know longer go to sleep every night wishing God will take me and my stress level is way down. I find I am more affective at work since my mood is so much better.

Yes to all of this although my mood benefits have attenuated some. It is not perfect as dysphoria is still present and makes some days difficult. Overall, being functional is a big improvement over dysfunctional.

Stochastic
Very well said.  I still have dysphoria and fully agree with you I am functional. I'm glad you commented. I don't want to make it sound like everything is fixed.
Thank you
Melanie


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Had my endo appointment yesterday. All is going well. As I expected my E was upped a little. Excited to see what happens over the next 3 months (next appointment)!

It may be wishful thinking, but I believe that I see more hair growth in my MPB areas!

IslandGirl,  sounds like good news and I am happy for you!  I am wondering about your long term goals in relation to being on a low dose.   What I mean is... are you planning on full transition and for whatever reasons you are on a low dose but over time you will continue to increase your "E"?   Or are you changing dose for some other reason/objective?

I am only on Spiro at the moment and considering a low dose of " E" for the same reason,  to see if it helps with the dysphoria.

Thanks,
Clara

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Hi Clara! I have chosen to work slowly in my transition. This works better with my relationship and I have not come out to more than a handful of people. My goal is to continue to be physically the woman that I am but will be patient, as best I can, for the sake of my wife. She is working as hard to adjust as I am.

As far as dosage, I started with just spiro and added E 3 months in. Added dutaseride one month later. I think that I will be on my current level for a while. We will see!

Thanks IslandGirl.   I have a similar needs around relationships and hearing your choices is helpful.

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1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

I've been on low dose for 8 months now. I didnt choose to do it, my doctor did it because I have high blood pressure and T impacts that.

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.

Not applicable due to the fact that I have no dysphoria.

3. Changes with low dose.

Deeper voice, moderate facial hair, substantial downstairs growth

4. If changed to transitioning dose, explain reasons for change as well as length on low dose before change in dose.

I won't be changed to a higher dose until 07/14, my doctor feels like the higher dose won't impact my blood pressure since the cardiologist he selected will be partnering with him to monitor me.

5. Other thoughts.

Quote from: Claraaa on July 10, 2015, 12:59:23 PM
Thanks IslandGirl.   I have a similar needs around relationships and hearing your choices is helpful.

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I did too and I can say that the passage of time while keeping the relationship in tact is one of the most important aspects of a successful mixed orientation marriage - I'm about to fully transition but it's been close to two years since I started spiro and over one year since E and I'm still low dose.

For now we are extremely happy and I can say that's been the norm for a few months now.  It's totally doable but LD a was probably one of the real critical factors for our success.

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Thanks for that, Ashley! I sometimes get really stressed about how my wife is doing. Still a real roller coaster. More good than bad times. Relationship - more Best Friends and Soul Mates. Right now I can deal with this. I know that if I could, I would go to Montreal tomorrow. I also know that I am happy with who I am and my partner is more and more accepting of the woman I am becoming. Like most things in life, patience is the key. I will continue to go what I can and enjoy the moments. Each day I move a little closer to when I will be "out".

Quote from: Stanna on June 07, 2015, 10:17:05 AM

3. Changes with low dose.

    I have not been able to see any physical changes so far. Mentally however I seem to have a harder time separating my male self from my female self. When in a social situation my mind keeps wandering into my feminine side and it makes me somewhat self conscious.
   

Stanna, this is so fascinating to me! Can you elaborate what you mean by struggling to separate these different sides while in social situations?

Hi Erin, it seems that since I posted that, I am not having much problem acting the part of the person everyone assumes I am. What I tried to relate was at that time I would sometimes, when in a social situation pull back into my self and feel the girl inside thinking about how I am presenting my self and then becoming quite self conscious. Before starting HRT,  my old male self would just take control in those situations, and now the girl (that I am) is doing the checking of my male presentation. Actually, it should not be hard to present male, I have been doing it for 59 years. Some day I will be able to just be me anywhere any time. But for now I must stay closeted.

Update on changes: I am over 7 weeks on low dose and can now report, that for the last 2 weeks my nipples have been sore and can now feel breast buds forming! I am excited about this but at the same time I need to hide these changes from everyone except my lovely wife, who is totally supportive.
       Stanna

Quote from: Stanna on July 15, 2015, 04:11:50 PM
Hi Erin, it seems that since I posted that, I am not having much problem acting the part of the person everyone assumes I am. What I tried to relate was at that time I would sometimes, when in a social situation pull back into my self and feel the girl inside thinking about how I am presenting my self and then becoming quite self conscious. Before starting HRT,  my old male self would just take control in those situations, and now the girl (that I am) is doing the checking of my male presentation. Actually, it should not be hard to present male, I have been doing it for 59 years. Some day I will be able to just be me anywhere any time. But for now I must stay closeted.

Update on changes: I am over 7 weeks on low dose and can now report, that for the last 2 weeks my nipples have been sore and can now feel breast buds forming! I am excited about this but at the same time I need to hide these changes from everyone except my lovely wife, who is totally supportive.
       Stanna

Ahh, thanks for clearing that up--that really does make sense! :D

Is your breast development after 7 weeks at the point where not making an effort to conceal would out you? Like, at this point, if you wore jeans and a black t-shirt while in guy-mode, would anything seem explicitly fem about you?

  The way I look overall I don't think anyone would say I look fem. I suppose if I wore a tight thin cotton shirt you would see something that looks more like tiny breasts than pecks, but someone would really be having to check me out well to notice. But at this point in my transition it feels good to at least know something about me is becoming fem. The rest of me looks all dude at this point, except that I do shave every where, but nobody in my family seems to notice this fact or they don't want to say anything.
  I really do enjoy the way I feel since starting HRT and the thought of speeding things up is creeping into my thought process. I am considering electrolysis this fall, and will probably up my dosage at the same time. However at the same time, I want to keep my transition on the DL for as long as I can.

   p.s. Erin feel free to pm anytime.
      Stanna

My endo started me on what he called the "maximum he could prescribe" of estradiol in March.  In in June, exactly 90 days from starting, I had blood work performed.  The result:  Estradiol 33.1.  I have checked one of the reference charts and it reports this as a level consistent with a post-menopausal female. The chart also indicated that this was also the level for males.

I have seen libido drop, odor disappear, and dysphoria disappear, but that's it.  No breast sensitivity or growth at all.  I'm beginning to wonder if he prescribed this dose purposely to see how I would react. IMO it definitely is not a dose that will promote my transition.  I am disturbed by this as I am now 5 mos. in and nothing seems to be happening.  I am scheduling GRS in Jan. '16 and feel like I have wasted precious time.  Will get labs again late this month and see the Endo in early Aug. If the labs come up with the same dismal results, some serious discussions will ensue.

Quote from: Stanna on June 07, 2015, 10:17:05 AM
I have not been able to see any physical changes so far. Mentally however I seem to have a harder time separating my male self from my female self. When in a social situation my mind keeps wandering into my feminine side and it makes me somewhat self conscious.

Interesting. What do you identify as differences between male and female thought patterns -- how do you know which state you're in?

    Eve, I think you are taking this discussion a little deeper than my feeble mind can go. :)

       

Quote from: Stanna on July 17, 2015, 10:58:40 AM
    Eve, I think you are taking this discussion a little deeper than my feeble mind can go. :)

     

Heh. Fair'nuff.

Hi,

Had my first 3 months checkup with the Endo yesterday and my estradiol was 32 and my testosterone had gone up 70 points to 638!

She felt that even after my asking if I should start taking spiro, that in her opinion, which I agreed to follow, the best bet was to double the estradiol and now I take it twice a day, this is now at the lowest normal dosage;  as I will continue with my slow transitioning plan.

Next appointment in 3 months.

Changes to report:  first month to a month and a half I had a lot of sensitivity in my breasts and in one case pain that woke me up, breast size has increased, same as the areola and nipple and also darker, now almost no feeling; Sex organs are smaller and less involuntary action, except the desired to ejaculate has returned. Veins are not as visible, but it could be in part caused by gaining approximately 7 pounds in the 3 months as my appetite has become voracious as well as needing food with a lot of flavor, think of Mexican Salsa or anything with a lot of spices! OH my love for chocolate Ice Cream has returned with a PASSION!!!! after having switched to vanilla like 10 or 15 years ago.  Skin is softer, less or no male smell, body hair growth possible slowed down but has come back in the last month.

Major change has been that in the past month a couple of hours before the time to take the estradiol pill, I would start having a low intensity headcase and found out that if I took my pill earlier the headache would go away.

Estradiol or transitioning is like speed, not that I have ever taken any drugs not prescribed by the doctor, but it is ADDICTIVE like others have mentioned!! I am glad that she has a cool head and followed my original request of a slow transition.

Hugs,

Emily

Quote from: Emily R on July 28, 2015, 11:45:19 AM
Hi,

Had my first 3 months checkup with the Endo yesterday and my estradiol was 32 and my testosterone had gone up 70 points to 638!

She felt that even after my asking if I should start taking spiro, that in her opinion, which I agreed to follow, the best bet was to double the estradiol and now I take it twice a day, this is now at the lowest normal dosage;  as I will continue with my slow transitioning plan.

Next appointment in 3 months.

Changes to report:  first month to a month and a half I had a lot of sensitivity in my breasts and in one case pain that woke me up, breast size has increased, same as the areola and nipple and also darker, now almost no feeling; Sex organs are smaller and less involuntary action, except the desired to ejaculate has returned. Veins are not as visible, but it could be in part caused by gaining approximately 7 pounds in the 3 months as my appetite has become voracious as well as needing food with a lot of flavor, think of Mexican Salsa or anything with a lot of spices! OH my love for chocolate Ice Cream has returned with a PASSION!!!! after having switched to vanilla like 10 or 15 years ago.  Skin is softer, less or no male smell, body hair growth possible slowed down but has come back in the last month.

Major change has been that in the past month a couple of hours before the time to take the estradiol pill, I would start having a low intensity headcase and found out that if I took my pill earlier the headache would go away.

Estradiol or transitioning is like speed, not that I have ever taken any drugs not prescribed by the doctor, but it is ADDICTIVE like others have mentioned!! I am glad that she has a cool head and followed my original request of a slow transition.

Hugs,

Emily

Thanks so much for updating us, Emily! I really look forward to anytime anyone reports in with detailed low-dose details :D

Good to hear that things are moving along, Emily. After my 3 month check, I had an little increase in Estradiol. I had added Dutasteride a month earlier. I had started with spiro  six months ago.

I wish that I could say that I had any change in breast development, but I can't. Nothing! Changes for me have come in the area of body hair, much finer and slower in growth, facial structure, thinner and my cheek bones are much more prominent, and skin, softer. I also seem to be very much more emotional!

I feel that I am right on the cusp in my transition. I thing that it will not be long before I am out to more people. I am not trying to intentionally hide as I wear totally woman's clothing, if in an andro style. I guess I will see how the next part of my journey goes. Some days I feel that I wish I could just go somewhere and start a fresh!

Hi everyone
Tomorrow will be my two months. I had an appointment with my endocrinologist on last Tuesday. My testosterone went to 387 and estrogen to 73. She ska my testosterone is below normal for a male and my estrogen went up.

I feel so much better. My stress is down, I don't get stressed, and I am not drinking as much as before. Now it is only socially and I don't drink a half a bottle of wine with no problem.

I have no breast growth yet but she said it might come later as my level continue to change. My skin is softer, hair is softer, body hair growth has slowed down, and I think the thinning area of my hair are thicker. 

She asked if I wanted to increase my dose but I said no because I still want to take it slow due to family. I wish I could increase but right now I feel so much better!

I have my next appointment in 3 months.

That's my latest news.
Melanie



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Islandgirl,

Your are really progressing at a fast rate.  Good for You!

Melanie,

I know how it feels holding back because of the family and responsibilities, it is unfortunate but some of of have to accept it and consider ourselves lucky in that we are able to manage without creating too much stress.

Good luck ladies and Hugs..

Emily

Thanks Emily. I keep being reminded that I am progressing. It is a struggle to turn off my inner voice that says ' go for it now!'. I agree that our pace of transitioning is often tied to family, work, or other circumstances.  Keeping positive and finding a balance is the key.

Melanie, good to hear  that you are feeling better and are handling the stress better. Continue to call on your inner woman to help when things get tough! You may not be moving through your transition as quickly as you would like, given other circumstances, but at least you are coming from the place of the woman inside of you, the one you are becoming!

Emily, island girl
It's all good. Even though I have to move slow I feel sooooo much better.

One other improvement is I have more empathy and think of things differently and calmly.

All good feelings.
Melanie


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Hi everyone,

  Thank you so much for sharing your stories and insights on how your transitions are going. It seems we all share a lot of the same ups and downs, but the resounding theme seems to be how good it feels to be moving forward in a positive way in our lives! :)
  I can't say how important it is, for me to hear and learn from such wonderful people that are traveling a similar path.
  And yes, Melanie, it is "all good"! :)

Love and hugs,    Stanna
 
 

It is great to read everyone's updates. We all have a lot in common with similar challenges. I hope to read many more updates, and I will continue to update as well.

Well, I've been on a very low dose of E and Spiro for the past almost 7 weeks now.  There was a tiny bit of breast pain in the first week, but that tapered away to virtually nothing soon after.  Though, when I squeeze them together now I can see the beginnings of cleavage which I never saw before.  Maybe they're just getting fatter :P.

Emotional volatility and hot flashes, those are the negatives.  Clearer/smoother skin, slowed body hair growth, improved mood, those are the positives.  My sex-drive is nonexistent and mild testicle shrinkage (10%?), which can be either positive or negative depending on who you are.

I'm also working on my wardrobe, telling people, and going out en-femme more often, but those aren't HRT related.

I went to see my endocrinologist today for the first time.  I got my HRT originally using Informed Consent from Planned Parenthood.  So today was a get-to-know-you appointment and to figure out where to go from here.  I feel like I've told my story about 100 times now, but I did it again for her.  In the end, they drew more blood to run labs so they could compare to my set of labs from 8 weeks ago before starting HRT.  She said pending good results, she'd probably increase my Estradiol, yay!  She's also increasing my Spiro, effective immediately.

All-in-all, things are looking up!

She asked me about my timeline for coming out at work and everything.  I told her probably when I hit the point of male-fail!  hah.  I don't have a plan right now, but when that happens I'll start talking to HR about setting a date.  Right now I'm just living a double-life...

    Hi.
     I was on gel for about a good year with no results. so my doctor put
   me on a low does of minevilli  patch for the last 3 months and now I
   feel a lot of pain when I touch them for the last 2 weeks! About how long would you
   say it could last? I am 70yrs old and love the feeling, is it just the start of them
   getting bigger.

    Thank You, janis

I assume you're talking about your breasts being sore to the touch?  That's normal and may last off and on for a couple years!  Couple days or weeks of pain, followed by none for a bit, then some more, off and on...

Additionally, I'd like to point out another side effect of HRT so far.








I NEED PICKLES, GIVE ME PICKLES, NOM NOM NOM.


Oh god, and Doritos.....  Sigh.......  I'm gonna gain 5 pounds this week I know it.

    Thanks. it's nice to know

Quote from: KristinaM on August 04, 2015, 08:34:31 AM
Additionally, I'd like to point out another side effect of HRT so far.





I NEED PICKLES, GIVE ME PICKLES, NOM NOM NOM.


Oh god, and Doritos.....  Sigh.......  I'm gonna gain 5 pounds this week I know it.

Green olives for me. :D

Hi all,

Well I've been following this thread and reading through all of the other Low Dose threads that I could find.
All of you girls have been a great inspiration and help as I began my journey down the low dose path.

Well now it's my turn to share so here goes...
I hit the can't take it anymore wall head-on about 2 years ago when I just couldn't take hiding the real me anymore.  From there, it still took me another half a year before I figured it out enough, gathered enough courage and then shared my gender dysphoria with my wife (married 21 years this year) in March 2014 and then began to see a gender therapist.  After a long road of working through who I truly am, we (my therapist and I) decided that I should hold off on starting HRT until my wife was ready for me to start.  I'm trying to proceed at a pace that will help me preserve my marriage.  Although I've been battling gender dysphoria for many many years (since I was about 5), she's only had months of exposure. 

Well the dysphoria continued to get so bad through the fall of 2014 that I could only get a few hours of sleep each night between progressively worsening dysphoria attacks.  Our hope was that if I started with a low dose, the physical changes may come on slow enough for her to process and hopefully help to reduce the dysphoria attacks.

In February this year my wife agreed that I should begin with a low dose...
So my endo prescribed a low dose of E and Spiro, and I have not looked back since. :icon_female:

I've now been on HRT for 6 months.  Here are my experiences so far:

• Emotional state: well I can't say that I've really noticed what some of the other girls on this site or in my group have experienced.  Am I calmer, do I have a female thought process now???  Well I can say that I fell better, I don't get as hot under the collar about some things.  The dysphoria attacks over night have lessended but not gone away.
• Physical changes:
• Body hair:  Well I had already started laser hair removal on my chest down to my bikini line before HRT.  In the past 6 months I can say that the dark hairs that had remained have slowly been fading away. mostly I see more vellus type hair in their place.  I've been working on beard removal for >12 months now, I would like to think that HRT has slowed facial hair growth, but since I shave every day until it's all gone I don't realy care to see it and check on the speed of growth.  My underarm hair was lasered off before HRT so nothing to talk about there. As for hair on my legs and arms, I also keep it shaved off, but have noticed slower rate of growth the past couple of months.  As for the hair on my head, I was fairly lucky there and have a good head of hair to start with (with some small amount of receding at the temples).  My last hair cut was a buzz cut like a marine (long story for a different thread maybe) now after 18 months it's about 9 inches in length!
• Breast development:  My nipples started to become sore almost 3 weeks to the day I started taking my first dose of estrogen and they have been sore ever since.  I definitely can feel subareloar nodules and what used to be clearly male pectoral muscles are slowly changing into female breasts.  I do still try to present as male (not out yet), luckily so far at 6 months my wife says I can still pass as maleish.
• Weight Gain:  Well I can say that since I started HRT it's harder for me to loose weight doing the same routine that I had before.  I try my best to watch my calory intake, exercise, etc...  But then there are those darn pickles! >:-)  Yup I have had some food cravings in the past 6 months, can't ever remember having a craving anything like this before HRT...  Anyway I've done very well so far and have only gained about 4 to 5 pounds.  I'm 5'9" 170 lbs, working toward 155 lbs someday.
• Fat distribution:  Well I can only say that I've noticed an increase in breasts, hips and bum.  How much, I'm trying not to focus on measurements otherwise I'll go crazy wanting it to go in the right places faster.
• Genitals:  OK so I hate looking at them and handle those things only as needed.  So I honestly can't give much of a report but it has become easier to tuck the testicles up into the inguinal canals in the past couple of months. I can tell you that there is no involuntary action since week 3, thank god!  Couldn't stand dealing with that anymore.

I'll end with some good news...
Got my 6 months lab results back my Estradiol is in the low female range with the Testosterone count well below the male range, but above the female range.

I would love to jump right into a full dose from here and go full speed ahead!  I do very much value my marriage and my wife's friendship, therefor I'm trying very hard to keep my inner self in check and to sit back and enjoy the HRT ride.

Saw my Endo Wed. Labs after 5 mos. on E  Spiro & Progesterone indicated E level was still quite low (43) T -.75. The Spiro is definitely working.  As far as the E, I haven't had much reaction.  Emotionally, yes, but physically little, which is obviously reflected in my low E level.  I was on a low dose of E with no Spiro from 1997-2002 and experienced the "2nd puberty" effects then (breast buds/tingling/sensitivity/ fat redistribution.  I was in my early 50's then.  I am now in my late 60's and I have heard that our body chemistry reacts more slowly as we age. Perhaps I'm encountering that now.  On a positive note, my Endo agreed to dbl. my dosage of E so we'll see what happens.  Is there a 3rd puberty for me?  Sure hope so.  With my new 'script, I guess I no longer fit into the low dose category. 

I'd love to know what's meant by 'low,' 'medium,' or 'high' doses. The problem is the site rule, the reason for which I totally understand. I wonder if it's possible to give an indication without a breach of the above? If you go onto a site like transgendercare.com it gives ideas which I'd, personally, consider high dosing. So by that token 'low' would be something like a third of that I'm guessing? Or are we talking here really micro dosages?

Sorry mods, I'm trying to tiptoe I promise :)

I'm really interested because I had a lot of problems following the kind of ideas in the aforementioned: culminating in a day when I was pretty ill from, I think, spironolactone.

Quote from: Richenda on August 14, 2015, 12:45:32 AM
I'd love to know what's meant by 'low,' 'medium,' or 'high' doses. The problem is the site rule, the reason for which I totally understand. I wonder if it's possible to give an indication without a breach of the above? If you go onto a site like transgendercare.com it gives ideas which I'd, personally, consider high dosing. So by that token 'low' would be something like a third of that I'm guessing? Or are we talking here really micro dosages?

Hi Richenda. I do not believe there is a formal description for low dose. Luna Nyan proposed the following which captures the essence of a low dose application.

Low dose HRT could be defined as the administration of cross gender hormone therapy at a dosage far lower than that which would be considered optimal for transition for an individual.  This may be for therapeutic purposes (relief from gender dysphoria) or diagnostic purposes.   Dosages would be considered 1/2 or lower that which would be usually used in a transition situation.

Again, I am not aware of standard dosages; rather, it is working with your doctor to make small adjustments based on how you feel and desired level of changes.

IMO  The appropriate approach for admin. of cross sex hormone therapy is a starting dose that is quite conservative.  That's what I found with my Endo.  One can always adjust upward after a few months and new lab analyses. I think most of us who have embarked upon this therapy are so anxious to get these "life saving" chemicals in our bodies and want to see the results ASAP are quite impatient.  I'm guilty of this. My Endo started me off with a dose & delivery system that was commensurate with my age. After 5 mos. I had experienced very little feminization although the Spiro is doing its job well.  He has now doubled my dosage and will evaluate again in 3 mos.

I completely agree with the above and wish I had followed it, but perhaps I wouldn't have listened. That's me to a tee: being impatient for quick results. I've learned, and I hope others do, that it's far, far, better to start conservatively and then gradually increase as and when your endo is satisfied. So I concur 100% with the above.

I also think that if you do google dosages and find a prominent site giving details that their suggestions are potentially dangerous as starter dosages.

Go through an Endo. My mistake and without being too melodramatic, it could've cost me my life. Lesson learnt.

I have no idea what low medium or high dosages are. I listen to the direction of my endo. She started me off with spiro (7 months) and then very low E (4 months). She wanted to see how my system adapted to the drugs. Her main concern was to keep me healthy as I go through transition. I added dutasteride three months ago. Yesterday I finally am feel the burn! Pain in nipple area! Excited and hopeful that this is not just in my head.

If you research HRT there is a range of dosages most sources seem to quote and that matches what most transwomen I know are taking. I would consider "low" to be anything below this range and "high" to be anything above it. My starting dose was half of what those sources list and of what others I know are taking, so I consider myself "low dose". My Endo uses the term "low dose" when discussing my dosage, so it seems she agrees with my description. It (low dose) seems to be working based on lab results (T halved, E up 50%).

I'm guessing most of you have seen this study suggesting low doses are just as effective?
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/endo-meetings.2013.RE.12.MON-595

'We concluded that in MtFT subjects, lower estrogen doses than the ones recommended in the guidelines are effective to keep E2 and T levels at normal premenopausal women range, avoiding the use of higher estrogen doses potentially associated with several side effects.'

Interesting.

Hi
It,s been 3 months on a low does of estrogen.  Not much has changed since last month. My nipples are a little sore but have not changed size. That is about the only physical thing I have noticed so far.

Emotionally I still feel better than before I started but the dysphoria is starting to come back. It's following like some of you mentioned. I spoke with my endo about how some people see the dysphoria come back after a few months and she told me it could be physical or it could be that things aren't moving fast enough and there are no changes. I am not sure what is happening with me.

I think if I talk with my wife more but I find it so hard. I know a lot of you say open communication is the key but it is so hard to talk about all of my feelings. So I'm back to feeling depressed at times. I know it's affecting her.  I went to Asia about a month ago and was very depressed while gone and she told me it gave her head aches and she was very worried about me. I have to get past this. I have to live my life which I thought I was doing for the first two months on HRT but now I feel like I going backwards.

Melanie


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Our  journeys along the path are often a roller coaster ride, with highs and lows along the way. I have been on HRT for over eight months and changes seem slow at times and others arrived quickly. Emotionally, I find that not being where I expected or wanted to be affects me negatively and often I find myself being depressed. My wife also goes through the same emotional swings. I know that the unknown, what the future will look like, and the worries of how I am doing, really affects her. All we can do is be there for each other, pick the times to have discussions, and for me, don't push her to hard. I am often surprised by her - she bought me beautiful ear rings, and pink carnations for my birthday, or chose a colourful top for me to try on. Other times we are not on the same page, such as buying shoes!

Stay true to yourself. Be patient. It sounds that your relationship is a supportive one. Look for those small openings to have discussions. All the best.

I can confirm the depression while on HRT for only a couple months.  For the last 2 weeks I've had bouts of depression over being stuck in boy mode at work and not being even remotely perceived as a girl out in public.  A lot of that last part is my doing though.  Not shaving, not wearing my bra, wearing boy clothes, telling them my real name, etc...  It sucks.  But!  I took my measurements again this morning and it's another half inch here and another half inch there, so the changes are happening and I'm reassured!

Still, as happy as I am to finally be on the right path in life, it does get depressing that I'm not able to go full time yet.  Mostly because of clothes and confidence.  I don't want people to look at me at work and say, "ahm, no, you're a dude, you look like a dude," when I tell them.  That would be utterly crushing.  So I wait.  I build my wardrobe, I work on makeup skills, I hang out with my girlfriends who only see me as Kristina, and I wear girl clothes around the house almost exclusively!  That is how I cope while I wait for the hormones to do their thing and for the right timing to come out at work.

Hang in there, talk about your feelings, they're important!  Even if not with your wife, or with your therapist, find a friend, a confidante who won't get irritated about you talking about it so much.  :P

Quote from: Richenda on August 29, 2015, 01:37:54 AM
I'm guessing most of you have seen this study suggesting low doses are just as effective?
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/endo-meetings.2013.RE.12.MON-595

'We concluded that in MtFT subjects, lower estrogen doses than the ones recommended in the guidelines are effective to keep E2 and T levels at normal premenopausal women range, avoiding the use of higher estrogen doses potentially associated with several side effects.'

Interesting.

In this study, the worst types of estrogen were used, those most likely to induce side-effects due to the fact they are not bio-identical and hence, remain in the body for a longer time. To group all estrogens together is incorrect as several studies have shown that bio-identical estradiol, especially if taken non-orally, even in higher doses, does not lead to all the mentioned side-effects. Androcur, ethinyl estradiol, conjugated equine estrogens have a stronger effect on prolactin secretion than bio-identicals as well. Unfortunate that the distinction is not made.

Measuring estradiol levels while taking those forms of estrogen is also inaccurate as equine estrogen and ethinyl estradiol are equally active, quite potent and not measured.

There are several problems with this research and as far as I'm concerned, this kind of research and assertions are doing a disservice to our community. All estrogens are NOT equal and in today's world, most of us take bio-identicals so this does not apply to us except perhaps in some parts of the world like Brazil.

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

I have been on low dose oestradiol for a week (vivelledot, prescribed by endocrinologist). I have also been taking low dose dutasteride for 3 months (avodart, prescribed by urologist).
Given my age (I am 64) I don't envisage going to transition. However if I were much younger I definitely would go to F.T.
I hope that low dose HRT will stabilize my mind and calm dysphoria. I hope also that it will stop BPH (prostate enlargement).

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.

It's probably too soon to tell. I will report in a few weeks.

3. Changes with low dose.

Surprisingly breast/nipples tenderness has appeared after two days only. Also I sleep somewhat better.

4. If changed to transitioning dose, explain reasons for change as well as length on low dose before change in dose.

Not applicable.

5. Other thoughts.

First of all I thank all of you ladies for your contributions to the subject of low dose HRT. They helped me a lot in deciding to go for it.

Yesterday I read from several medical sites that oestrogens might take part in BPH. I am confused with that because I never heard anything about transgender or transsexual women suffering from BPH due to HRT.
The situation is rather tricky for me as regards doctors advices: I can't ask my GP because he has shown himself to be not open at all to gender dysphoria subject. Besides that I do not trust a lot my endocrinologist: she did not know that dutasteride may be prescribed as an AA in HRT for transgender women, and also she left me choose the oestrogens dosage. And as regards the urologist I am pretty sure that he will say that as long as doubt exists I should not take oestrogens even if their implication in BPH is a mere hypothesis and has not not been proven on humans.
Needless to say that I'll appreciate a lot any feedback or advice on this subject.

Finally I apologize for my english which is not very good. I thank you for your indulgence.

I'm now just about 8 months down low dose hrt road.  To my wife's worst fears I've developed steadily to a full A cup.
Not having had a hair cut for 21 months my hair is now down to my shoulders.

Given those changes and a slow change in my style of clothing to a more androgynous presentation...

I was confronted this week by a coworker (familiar with the signs of transitioning) as to whether I'm transgender or not.  Two days later my wife was confronted about me by our children's pediatrician, telling her that when I brought one of our sons in for his checkup all the nurses and the doctor her self could tell.  Further, that she had more facial hair than me and that I wasn't going anyone.

Needless to say panic has set in with my wife and now is demanding that I decide if I going to continue our not.

The options she gave me were:
1 stop everything and go back to presenting clearly as male
2 continue down the transition path and divorce. With her desire to have me out of their lives forever.

They are my life, my everything.  When hit the wall and my GID was unbearable I started on the low dose path; she was fully aligned at that point.

I don't know what I'm going to do.  After 8 months my breasts are never going away.  I wouldn't want them to either.

Anyway I'm now (in very short oder this past week) faced with the decision which either way I lose.
[emoji22]

Maybe try looking at this a little more clinically.

Would you be able to live with yourself if you stopped HRT? Didn't it basically fix your brain?

Would you be able to live with yourself if your wife decides she can't be with you anymore? It's not like you're choosing to leave her...

It doesn't seem fair if she chooses to leave at this point, no, but two people are only together as long as they want to be (or have to be).

If you can't be a whole or happy person without HRT, that's a medical issue. If you can't be a whole or happy person without your wife, that's a social/mental/financial issue.

I really feel for your situation. My wife could say the same thing someday. I just hope I can take my own advice if that time ever comes, lol.

I know that many here have had difficult times as of recent. My thoughts are with you. 

I have not provided an update in a while because not much has changed. Low dose for 1.5 years. As stated previously, the physical changes have leveled off, and my measurements have remained the same in the last six months. A slight increase in spiro helped to keep male function under control, but that provided short-term relief from dysphoria.

Anxiety is still high, and it is difficult to separate the psychological from the biochemical. In other words, can HRT serve as a replacement for a transition? Is there underlying non-dysphoria related anxiety that also needs to be treated? Still trying to find the Goldilocks zone where I can manage dysphoria and have minimal impacts to my family. I will continue to tweak my treatments (meds and non-meds) and monitor the results. 

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

Low dose (mtf) since a month ago. I always look and feel andro. When I hit 30 yo 3 months ago, I got scared when I am gaining more fat on the hips/butt/thighs/armpit without losing weight, losing leg hair, body odor change, regaining baby hair on receded hairline. Turns out it is just hormone imbalance as I ages just that its is more in my case, so I researched more into it and talked to a psyc and decided to want to bring out my feminity in me bit by bit while still living as a male so began low dose hrt.

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.

I identify myself as an asexual androgyny and also do not understand the point of dating and relationship, and I love myself more being as feminine looking as I can.

3. Changes with low dose.

Mentally similar as the rest.
Physically, I am already at 5"9, 112 lbs, and 25 inch waist before HRT and with my natural hormone imbalance, muscle atrophy began almost immediately from day 2 and more rapidly than others. Face got more feminine looking than I thought considered I am only 1 month in.
I am growing my hair out and it seems softer as I usually cut my hair when my sides got thick and long which was ugly in the past turns out to be better looking with my face now. Will grow it out longer and see. 

4. If changed to transitioning dose, explain reasons for change as well as length on low dose before change in dose.

No plan to change to full dose, as it is also not widely accepted in my first-world Asian country.
I like to look tomboyish and not interested in women's wear like a dress and heavy makeup. At most I just wear women's jeans, tshirts, office shirts and little eye make-up.

5. Other thoughts.

Many mtf thought they are mtf and feels the need to transition but androgyny is the word they are looking for. Can't hurt to research the word and start on low dose first.

Hi!

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

I'm on a low dose of Progynova for 2 months now. I've choose a low dosage of E without any AA because of my family and my work.

3. Changes with low dose.

My breast between T2 and T3 stage and I lost almost all hair on my legs (after 3 times of epilation it's not growing at all).

5. Other thoughts.

I think it's very fast for LD? Will the change to 1/2 of dose slow down the progress significantly? I like all these changes but I want to do it a little more smoothly.

Hi Helen  :icon_wave:

Welcome to Susan's  :)  Glad to have you here, join on in the fun

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Hugs

V M

I recently upped my estradiol dose after 1 year and 9 months on a lower HRT dose. This is a significant jump in dose. The initial calmness I experienced when I started the low dose had worn off, and dysphoria has been difficult to manage lately. It even built up to the point where I have experienced stomach cramping that my doctor attributed to IBS brought on by stress. The doctor wants to see how the the HRT will help with the stress, along with other minor treatments to help with the cramping, before exploring deeper into this problem. It was clear that something needed to change, and the logical next step was to increase the dose to see if it brings back the calmness.

I do not have plans to transition socially any time soon because I want to cause the least disruption for my family. It may be difficult to hold off because the dose is quite a bit higher now and feminization was difficult to hide under the lower dose. Also, I do not know if I can manage the dysphoria. Everything will be okay in the long run. My family knows about me and supports me. I also have a caring wife who understands.

First, figure out what you want right now for yourself, follow your heart. Express your concerns to your doctor, talk with someone. Bio-identical progesterone can also help with relieving anxiety. Stress can be brought about when one acts in opposition to what they really want to do. Maybe you are moving too quickly, not quickly enough. Figure it out by talking with people you trust and who can understand. :)

It is time for an update. I wanted to give an honest take on my HRT effects. As a science nut, I have been taking measurements as well as noting changes in mood and appearance. I was careful to look out for any placebo effects or confirmation biases. As always, YMMV. Your experience and interpretations may be different.

History - I had a difficult time with dysphoria 2.5 years ago. This was associated with losing weight and extensive work outs. This occurred once before in my life seven years earlier. There was anxiety, lack of sleep, chest tightness, and headaches. My life was going out of control, and I needed to address the dysphoria which lead to therapy and eventually HRT. For me, it made sense that the heavy work outs created a testosterone surge that exacerbated dysphoria, so HRT should correct this. Low dose for 1.75 years and a higher dose for the last three months. I present as male although I am taking small steps in changing my appearance.

The Numbers - Most recent estradiol levels 319 pg/ml. Testosterone and free testosterone 24 ng/dl and 3 pg/ml, respectively. In very good shape with all other labs. Since  the start of HRT, I have lost weight from 180 to 158 lbs (205 lbs before big melt down). Most significant changes was 4.5" reduction around the waist, 2" inches in the hips, then an inch or less for arms, thighs, calves, and neck. Difficult to tell how much is due to HRT, activity, or diet. Bust gained 2.5-3 inches. Interesting in that all of these changes occurred under low dose. Very little change in weight or measurements under the higher dose which is surprising to me. Still early. From the TMI department, one noticeable change is semen volume decreased dramatically from low dose to the higher dose.

Initial Feeling of Calm - I have read in many cases there was an initial feeling of calm. I feel that this was attributed to adjusting the estradiol. I say this because this light headedness (i.e., feeling calm) occurred after the initial dose and after the increased dose but then wore off as my body adjusted to the dose. In my experience, the initial feeling of calm was simply a side effect of the estradiol and not a change in internal chemistry.

HRT on Mood - It is difficult to tell if HRT has improved my mental health simply because of the ups and downs associated with being trans. I can say with certainty that trans-related social issues have a much greater influence on the increase or decrease in dysphoria compared to HRT (again your experience may be different). HRT doses has remained steady for a long time, but moods cycle up and down frequently. No noticeable effect with the increase in dose. HRT has some noticeable effects as I do cry more and can get very cranky. It is quite embarrassing how cranky I can get when I feel I need more attention from my wife. Always in need of cuddling.

Appearance - I always thought I was fairly andro prior to the HRT. Relatively thin frame, no distinct facial features, very little facial and body hair, so I am a little disappointed that others have not said much about the HRT changes. I have received comments about being too thin or been asked if I am losing weight. I have also received comments about looking very young for my age. One hostess at a restaurant choked in surprise when I told her how old my children were (and then my age). One work colleague that I recently met at a conference pulled me aside to tell me that I looked 15 years younger than my age. That is great if I wanted to look like a younger man, but that is not what I am aiming for. There was possibly two misgenderings where I thought I was ma'amed by strangers. Hair is still relatively short. I will be growing my hair out and starting laser soon, so another update is due.

Quote from: Stochastic on April 22, 2016, 10:55:30 PM
It is time for an update. I wanted to give an honest take on my HRT effects. As a science nut, I have been taking measurements as well as noting changes in mood and appearance. I was careful to look out for any placebo effects or confirmation biases. As always, YMMV. Your experience and interpretations may be different.

Thank you Stochastic for your update. In my turn I'll give some news of my experience with low dose HRT.

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

I have been on low dose œstradiol for nearly 8 months (vivelledot, prescribed by endocrinologist). My dosage was increased almost 3 months ago. I have also been taking low dose dutasteride (avodart, prescribed by urologist) but I stopped taking it 1 month ago.
Initially I didn't envisage going to transition. That's the main reason why I chose to go with low dose.
I just hoped that low dose HRT would stabilize my mind and calm dysphoria. I also was hoping that it would stop BPH.

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.

It has helped a lot, especially during the 2 or 3 first months. At present the mental effects are less obvious, perhaps because I am now used to the feeling of being a woman (at least inwardly).

3. Changes with low dose.

Breast/nipples enlargement and soreness.
At the beginning I slept noticeably better than before HRT. But after a few weeks I started anew having a rather restless sleep.
Also initially my skin got a lot smoother, but now it has become dryer and dryer. For that reason I plan asking progesterone to my endo at next appointment.

4. If changed to transitioning dose, explain reasons for change as well as length on low dose before change in dose.

My dosage was doubled less than 3 months ago. The main reason was that my overall steroid hormone level was too low: testosterone at bottom of men range and œstradiol just above top of men range. Also I wanted to accelerate lowering of testosterone in view of inhibiting BPH.
I had my last blood tests a few days ago: testosterone =0.6 ng/ml, œstradiol =  171 pg/ml. Testosterone is still too high, at least as regards BPH. I have an appointment with my endo next week. She probably will prescribe a new increase of œstradiol dosage. I'll ask for progesterone, mainly for better sleep and curing skin dryness. I also would be glad that my breasts be fuller and rounder, though I'm in hope that they will not get too large which I wouldn't want.

5. Other thoughts.

I feel that I am now engaged in a stealth transition. I don't know where it will take me, but at the moment I am pretty satisfied of what has happened so far to my body and to my mind.

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

Estradiol valerate 'normal' for 4 mo. but I have been skipping AA due to my strong perception that things were progressing faster than expected (mostly good except not wanting to completely sandbag my ability to perform sexually) so low dose in that no AA and switching to ½ normal dose because my -- just tested -- E is above normal for cis female and T normal for females.

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.

Perhaps I don't qualify as low dose as my indicated dose for normal results will be ½ or probably less. IAC it's helped amazingly. I've been (over?) compensating for decades without hrt and maybe I will come to feel more 'normal'

3. Changes with low dose.

At 'normal' I have gained a cup size in < 2 months, that's slowed a bit but clearly not stopped. Breasts and nipples still always sore/sensitive. I work in glass blowing and have found my skin is far more sensitive to radiant heat than before.

Emotional landscape has indeed changed. Sexuality is more impacted than I'd expected or wanted but dealing. Can still orgasm, now produce the tiniest ejaculation I could imagine.

4. If changed to transitioning dose, explain reasons for change as well as length on low dose before change in dose.

Ref above, I think 'low' by normal measure is 'normal' for me. I expect transition to continue at the ½ dose.

5. Other thoughts.

My deepest desire would be to pass for binary gender female and the clear challenges to that are what kept me from hrt for 20 years. It is still not to be however the time had arrived to simply tell the world I'm more comfortable as femme, have begun transition with hrt and am bit by bit reconstructing my exterior as gende-fluid.

I'm undecided on proceeding to GRS, it's about 70:30 vote in favor and so I'm researching.

OP.

How I wish we could blind these experiments. I try to have a good handle on my biases and factor them into results as fairly large margins of error.

Quote from: SadieBlake on April 24, 2016, 10:14:18 AM
E is above normal for cis female

Cisfemales' levels can range from 20 pg/ml (73 pmol/L) to as high as 650 pg/ml (2,386 pmol/L) during a menstrual cycle and up to 75,000 pg/ml (275,000 pmol/L) during pregnancy. Your E is certainly not above normal. Pregnancy is a normal part of a woman's life.

Its not really clear what low dose actually means. My low dose experience actually gave me blood levels some doctors would consider transitioning doses. Plus people have different sensitivities to hormones.

I beginning to think that low dose means its below the level where its fully effective. My low dose was not effective compared to now, mentally or physically, and I was on it for years so it wasn't just going slowly.

Finding the correct dosage for us is IMO a crap shoot.  My endo wanted me at 200 & tried all last yr. to get me there. Worked with patches in ever increasing doses for 9 mos. to no avail.  He switched me to injections in late Dec., but as  my GCS was sched. for late Jan. I had to discontinue all 'mones until I was post op. Tested in late Feb. & I was all over the map between 80 & 525.  My guess is that my endo sys was & is trying to adjust to the new me minus testicles. Will test again next month.  Am continuing with a low injectable dose every 2 wks. for the time being.  Will see what happens.
Hugz!

I have been meaning to put a post in this thread for sometime – it's a great thread, great idea Stocastic and I have found it incredibly useful.

My story is quite long (aren't they all), but it is worth giving some context so I will try and stick to the main points.  I am 46yo and have recently come to terms with being TG (last year), even though I was wanting to be a girl from the age of about 5.  I have dressed all my life (mostly in secret) but never really accepted it as more than a phase, and have done the stereotypical male sports and jobs and developed numerous coping mechanisms.....  I am married with a young family and I told my wife about my crossdressing before we got married, she is understanding but doesn't want me to transition.

By late 2014 I was depressed, anxious, angry and generally not a nice person to be with, my young children were growing up and my ability to dress when I wanted was becoming curtailed. I was starting to look at ways to feminise myself and started laser facial hair removal and removing body hair, I also started to research HRT – everything was a mess so I looked for a gender therapist. (I had seen one briefly in the past in 05 and really wish she was as good as the one I have now – I cannot stress strongly enough the value of a good therapist and the dangers of a poor one – but that's another post I feel)

So the questions – and this is my experience others will be very different.

First Time (Jan 15)

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

I have used low dose HRT twice.  I first used it in Jan 15 when everything was a mess, I was anxious, consuming way too many energy drinks, angry and depressed.  It was also the time I started therapy.  I self medicated estrogel (I know I shouldn't have – and I wouldn't recommend it ) for about 2 months.  I had done lots of research and read that low dose HRT could help with the mental aspects without pushing you down the road to transition too quickly.  I am over 40 and the gel seemed to most risk free approach and since I was only using a small amount I didn't need to cover all available limbs with the stuff!

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.

Bearing in mind that when I started HRT the first time everything was a mess.  At the same time as starting it, I stopped my energy drink addiction, started to exercise more and started to see a therapist.  So in terms of a controlled experiment my findings are not very reliable.  But I noticed an almost immediate reduction in anxiety – 48 hours after starting – I would describe it as seeing the world through a softer focus.. I could still see the things that would annoy me or make me anxious, but they didn't bother me, as if I was in a protected wrapper.  I felt great – my wife (who I didn't tell the first time I used HRT) could not believe the change in me.  But I was also seeing a great therapist and making other changes all of which could have an impact...

3. Changes with low dose.

Mental as above – although could well have been placebo.  After about 8 weeks my breasts were really itchy and I got a bit nervous about changes.  I also was making real progress with therapy and felt bad about not telling my wife so I stopped the HRT.

Second Time: (Nov 15)

1. How long have you been on low dose and reasons for choosing low dose.

By about Sep/Oct 15 my dysphoria was getting really bad, I was getting anxiety attacks every day that would make me feel sick, I would get distracted, my patience levels were low and I was snapping at my family and not a very pleasant person.  I didn't like who I was but couldn't seem to stop it.  I was still seeing my therapist and still making progress, but some of it was realising I was TG, and that I would transition if I could, but that other factors that were important to me were making that route difficult and causing stress.  I became aware of routes to supervised HRT that didn't involve my GP.  I did more research and spoke to people (qualified) so in Nov 15 I went back on to HRT this time on patches (evorel) and finasteride.

2. Describe to what extent low dose has helped with dysphoria.

As before, the mental impacts were almost immediate and significant.  Anxiety all but gone, anger and depression lifted, "you are like the happy person I married" to quote my wife – who this time I told – I felt better about myself.

3. Changes with low dose.

This time (the dose was higher circa 30-50% a transition dose) I noticed that my skin dried out slightly and become softer, my hair growth slowed, my pee smelt different.  After about 4 weeks, my morning erections were pretty non existant, after about 8 I struggled to get fully erect and my ejaculate had reduced.  I loved all of these changes. Everything was good. I felt great, my family has a happy father and my wife and I were getting on great.  I got blood done and E was circa 140 and t circa 4 (or 400 depending on units) and all seemed good.

However, my nipples went from itchy after 4 weeks to proper sore, and I started to get breast development.  I could feel a bud forming under them but there were no changes to my overall breast size for a 2 plus months so I was happy and just made sure I didn't bang my breasts!  Then over a four week period in Apr the breast fairy arrived.... And I went from nothing much to an A cup in 4 weeks.  An A doesn't sound much, but I now have breasts and nipples that in a tight shirt / t shirt scream girl and have a proper shape to them – they are also a bit too firm to be manboobs.  This kinda freaked me out – I am not in the mental place to out myself at work / swimming pool / beach / school gates and whilst hiding is an option at the moment – just – any further growth at the rate I had experienced was going to be awkward.

So the anxiety of dysphoria was replaced with the anxiety of outing myself when I am far from ready to do so.  So after careful consideration and discussion with wife / therapist I reduced the doseage slowly and come off the HRT.   So I will see how I get on now.  If I cant manage without E I have to be ready to deal with the consequences of taking HRT – but I also need to approach my period of no HRT in a positive manner and I am.

As an aside I noticed that the effects of HRT quickly went – my pee smell has changed back, my skin has got greasy, my erections and libido is back and I am starting to notice dysphoria symptoms.  My nipples remain sensitive, but the soreness has gone.  I miss them!

I also put on weight when on HRT, my bum got bigger etc – but that might be a whole heap of reasons so I cant blame HRT.

5. Other thoughts

Low dose HRT sorts out the dysphoria but can still make you transition to a point that you struggle to hide – and quite quickly - I know some people hide successfully for years – I guess it is horses for courses but – if you are going to do this then please be aware that you could find changes happening more quickly than you wish.  If I go back on then I will start really low and only work up really slowly and if I absolutely must ....  I will also do so knowing that I am on a road to outing myself and will just have to accept that.  Of course my decisions and circumstances may well change over the next year or so – but right now this is where I am.

Bit long – sorry.  Happy to answer questions etc by email.

Love
Laura

sorry,  I know it's not the answer to the topic, but what exactly is a 'low dose'?

Quote from: Lebedinaja on May 08, 2016, 04:50:34 AM
sorry,  I know it's not the answer to the topic, but what exactly is a 'low dose'?

It's a dose which is significantly lower than a transition dose. But the same dose which is a low dose for a given person will be a full dose for an other person.

I wanted to bump this thread to see if any of the original posters here have any updates to share since the past year or so?  I'm a week away from seeing my endocrinologist for the first time, so I'm eager to hear as many perspectives as possible.  Thanks!

?!?Low dose?!? Are you talking about taking hormones to increase your estrogen level to safe high normal male levels and to lower your testosterone level to safe low male levels so you can see how your brain responds to women's hormones?

*bump* accepted.

It's been steady as she goes for me.  On my current dosage feminisation seems to have tapered off with the girls having settled on roughly A cup size and fat distribution all over the place (although I do have a reasonable caboose these days, I still have a bit of a belly).

I'm mostly comfortable in my own skin - but it'd be quite easy go down the full social transition route save for my personal circumstances.  Mentally, these days I identify as female, but can maintain the butch act sufficiently and easily enough that suspicions aren't raised.  Acting in such a manner doesn't bother me for the record.

I'm due for a blood test (3 months after insertion of last pellet) mainly for clinical curiosity reasons, but general inertia has meant I've been procrastinating.  I'll update my personal HRT thread once I get the results as it seems to be of interest to people.  I'm betting e levels around 500-600pmol/L and pretty much close to 0 T.

OCTrisha there anything specific you wanted to know?

Quote from: luna nyan on January 10, 2017, 12:03:20 AM
*bump* accepted.

It's been steady as she goes for me.  On my current dosage feminisation seems to have tapered off with the girls having settled on roughly A cup size and fat distribution all over the place (although I do have a reasonable caboose these days, I still have a bit of a belly).

I'm mostly comfortable in my own skin - but it'd be quite easy go down the full social transition route save for my personal circumstances.  Mentally, these days I identify as female, but can maintain the butch act sufficiently and easily enough that suspicions aren't raised.  Acting in such a manner doesn't bother me for the record.

I'm due for a blood test (3 months after insertion of last pellet) mainly for clinical curiosity reasons, but general inertia has meant I've been procrastinating.  I'll update my personal HRT thread once I get the results as it seems to be of interest to people.  I'm betting e levels around 500-600pmol/L and pretty much close to 0 T.

OCTrisha there anything specific you wanted to know?

Thank you for the update Luna Nyan.  I wasn't looking for any particular response necessarily... I just wanted to see if others have been able to keep the low dose regimen going long term.  I'm also in a place where I don't know if I want to proceed with a full transition, but I still need to take action to deal with this dysphoria.  The low dose route seems like a potentially great option, but I'm also concerned it might force my hand at a point that I'm not ready. 

Quote from: OCTrisha on January 10, 2017, 12:30:46 AM
I just wanted to see if others have been able to keep the low dose regimen going long term.  I'm also in a place where I don't know if I want to proceed with a full transition, but I still need to take action to deal with this dysphoria.  The low dose route seems like a potentially great option, but I'm also concerned it might force my hand at a point that I'm not ready.

It has been a while since I had checked in. As discussed previously, I was on a relatively low dose for 1.75 years, and for the last 1.5 years, I am on a higher dose that is typical for those transitioning. HRT dosage and hormone levels have not varied much for the last 1.5 years. Body measurements are very similar to what I had reported earlier, so the majority of changes to my body occurred under low dose. Something to consider when starting a lower dose treatment.

I am in an in between area with my gender. I dress androgynously in casual clothing. I have shoulder length hair, tweezed brows, and shaved legs yet most everyone sees me as male. Many comments about looking young for my age, and people do slip a ma'am every now and then. This is difficult because I do not want to present as ultra feminine for people to view me as female. I have a family to support, so I have not pursued laser although I only have a scattering of facial hair. I also do not want FFS surgeries. I am comfortable but not truly happy where I am at currently. However, I feel there are no winning options. The present state is the best option for me and my family at this point in time.