That's the million-dollar question.
(Long post warning! If you don't need or want any back-story, just go to the last paragraph.)
My wife and I have been together for 15+ years. The last 5 have been pretty rocky. Even if I don't transition, I don't know if I can last in this marriage. Not that she hasn't been a good person, but it's getting for either of us to tolerate each other. We fight more than we talk. There is no trust. She says I'm keeping something from her, but she thinks it's along the lines of an affair, or worse in her mind, I'm spending time with my father.
The big difference between us, I feel, is that I have been open to getting outside help. She doesn't believe in therapy, and when I've pushed her to look to her church, she says she's tried, but somehow, I messed it up. It's always my fault. Her friends aren't around because of me. Her problems are because of me.
And I won't deny some of them are. The last few years, I've been thrashing in my sleep. I've done sleep studies, been treated for sleep apnea, and have gone on medication for restless leg syndrome (on top of my anti-depressants). I would actually hurt her in my sleep! I became an abusive husband in my sleep! She refused to either of us sleep in another room. We're in twin beds now, but she says I keep her up with my sleep talking.
So she's got physical pain and restless nights because of me. Her parents are sick and will probably be gone soon, but they've been sick since before we got married and they've hung on this long. So I need to be there to support her. She gets mad at for going to work when she's not feeling well or she's worried about her parents, which is multiple times a week. She doesn't work outside the home and she doesn't drive because of old injuries. I see her turning into her mother and not being able to take care of herself. That scares me. And all this time, I'm struggling with gender dysphoria.
Now, I've accepted myself and want to at least explore the idea of transition. I don't think I can do it with her. That's partly me and partly because I don't think she will accept it. But I'm supposed to stay with her and care for her and put her on a pedestal (her words), but I can't do it AND take care of myself. Am I being selfish?
(Sorry for the long rant. This is just a small portion of our back-story. I could give you details that would make your head spin!)
I saw a very publicly out trans woman speak early last year - she said that her transition was a selfish act. I was a bit surprised initially but in many ways it made sense. Who are we transitioning for? If it's for anyone but ourselves then we're doing it for the wrong person. So if one accepts that it is a selfish act the real question is - is that a bad thing? And I think if the toss of the coin comes down between living a lie, being utterly miserable, hiding inside a bottle (or other addiction or distraction)...or living as ourselves, then I think the answer is very clearly that no, being selfish is not a bad thing. If it's our survival over other people's comfort, expectations and demands then absolutely being "selfish" is the only realistic course. As long as we acknowledge that some people will be selfish towards us (anger, denial, rejection, ultimatums, emotional extortion, etc) then we're all on the same page!
Yes we are selfish to stop our pain and be happy.
Sorry world if that is un-acceptable.
If self-preservation is a selfish act, then I am guilty as charged.
Not telling my wife for 20 years that I suspected my core is indeed female = selfish. I didn't want to lose her.
Self-medding with alcohol and drugs for years to cope = selfish. I hated being miserable.
Deciding I don't really want to die just yet = selfish. Wait, or is that selfless? I didn't want people to have to grieve over me, you know.
Taking estrogen to resolve the underlying problem = selfish or selfless? My wife and family saw me do a 180. As a bonus, I'm much more pleasant to be around now that my head is screwed on right.
Transition is inherently a selfish act. So is eating.
Quote from: mrs izzy on January 06, 2015, 03:45:01 PM
Yes we are selfish to stop our pain and be happy.
Sorry world if that is un-acceptable.
Nicely said, Izzy.
Selfishness is a virtue in this case, but I can't help but have a conscience. I just wish that those opposing and road blocking me would have one too and let me live.
It's not selfish to want to be yourself. I believe no one has the right to ask someone to pretend to be something they're not. It's soul-destroying.
As far as your wife: You need to decide whether she's the one for you. If not, you need to let her go and find someone who will totally want her. This is true whether or not you transition.
"Selfishness is not living your life as you wish. It is asking others to live theirs as you wish." Oscar Wilde
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Thank you, everyone. Suzi, your comment really made me think. I don't know if I want to live with her emotional abuse anymore. She won't go to couples therapy. I will lose her and custody will not be easy, but I'm financially okay and I have the support of my dad behind me. I think I'll have my brother's support.
The next question, do we divorce without transition being the reason or do I come out and go from there?
Thanks for your words of support.
It sounds like she's the one that's selfish. You make it sound like no matter what you do, she's going to be mad at you.
Quote from: ChiGirl on January 07, 2015, 03:55:09 PM
The next question, do we divorce without transition being the reason or do I come out and go from there?
I wouldn't come out until I was ready. Emotional abuse is certainly reason enough to divorce someone.
i went through the same thing with my ex as well. Accused of being selfish etc. I actually let it get the better of me, and it put me into denial and ultimately stalled my transition plans for a few years. I was moving fast though without any regard for anything. So this probably explained the accusations and backlashes. My advice would be move SLOW, if you want any hope to make the relationship last. It may not make any difference, but if you want to start experimenting with the idea, its better to move super slow, as to ease your spouse into the idea.
Any major project or task that requires a lot of personal focus and energy directed towards one's self could be considered selfish if it takes away time from others or other things (getting a college degree, having a demanding career, etc). I think these are just coping mechanisms for our spouses and manipulative ways of convincing us to not to go down a certain road. But it's very understandable, because it's probably scary for a someone to suddenly learn that their spouse wants to become another gender/person.
Things took a turn for the worse tonight. My wife and I have been fighting all weekend. Tonight she said she wants a legal separation. I simply said okay. Then she gets mad at me for not agreeing to do it years ago. THEN, she's mad because she can't believe I want to walk away from her. She tells me she's going to drag me through he'll and I'm not getting out of this marriage this easily.
Now my daughter is crying because she heard the word divorce so my wife is telling her it's not going to happen, it's "death til we part."
I'm crying and dying inside here. I can't live like this anymore. I see my therapist on Tuesday, but I'm so scared.
This word "selfish" being attached to being transgender. It bothers me. It's like telling me that I'm being selfish for wanting to take that next breath of air to live. It's like being told that my life and my identity are not my own, that they belong to everyone else, and my only purpose here alive in this world is to serve your needs, desires, and expectations. I'm just a slave, a slave to this pre-appointed gender role based on anatomy, a slave to rules meant to put us into little boxes so we can all be sorted, separated, mixed and matched. It's like, when I hear this word in connection to being transgender, it's like someone is telling me that I'm just someone else's doll, to be dressed and stripped and posed and moved at the whim of someone else, that I have no free will, and I have no say in my ow direction.
If I'm not allowed to be selfish about my own body, my own identity... what should I be selfish about? Do I simply give up breathing so others can have the air? Do I stop eating and drinking so others can eat and drink? Am I even allowed to die? Or am I stuck, like the Third Law of Robotics?
I don't have an answer for you, ChiGirl. I can only hope that you won't allow guilt to enslave you. No one has the right to do that to you, and I can only hope you won't allow you to do that to yourself. We can all gather here and tell you that you're doing nothing wrong, that you have no reason to feel shame or guilt, but it won't mean anything unless you believe that yourself. It make take a long time to get there, but I hope you do. I hope you know that you answer to no one but yourself when it comes to your own identity, because no one else has to live as you. You do, and I bet you, all those people who'll try to shame you and guilt trip you couldn't survive a day in your skin.
You have no idea how strong you are. I only hope I can be just as strong one day.
Thank you, Daria.
Quote from: ChiGirl on January 11, 2015, 09:56:56 PM
I'm crying and dying inside here. I can't live like this anymore. I see my therapist on Tuesday, but I'm so scared.
Hugs, dear. We both know you have a long road ahead. I've been there (and gotten through it, though the divorce isn't final yet). If you're like me, you'll find strength you never knew you had.
We'll be there for you. Please keep posting.
Is it a selfish act, I suppose so. I was once told you need to take care of yourself before you can take care of someone else. My not dealing with my being trans before nearly killed me as a result of putting others needs before mine. So in order to be there for others we have to do something that some may consider a selfish act, but we have to do it for not just our own well being but for those around us even if they don't understand.
Mariah
The only selfish act would be someone trying to stop you.
i dont know what the hell these guys above are talking about but no, you are not selfish.
is it better for both of you staying unhappy, or for you to be happy, and who knows shes a grown woman maybe she needs change too
You're not being selfish, you need to do what you have to to be healthy. If she can't appreciate that, then she needs to learn to move on. It seems to me she thinks she has you trapped, and she's trying to use guilt to keep you in place. Hang in there, it'll get better once you move on.
Hugs
-Alana
I think your wife's actions are probably a result of her insecurities related to her parents, to you being trans and whatever else, rather than her just being a bad person. She has built a life with you and is probably scared of losing it. Even if she is unhappy she is probably more scared of the unknown. It's frustrating that she won't seek help because it could probably be very good for her. I'm not necessarily defending her and I really don't know enough to pass judgement on the situation either way, but I can relate to some of the same things with my marriage.
I ask myself the selfish question all the time. I have a young child as well, which makes things even more complicated imo. But in the end you are not selfish if this is something you need to be happy and feel right with yourself.
The thing is I haven't come out to her. Our marriage is falling apart even before me coming out.
I wonder sometimes if my gender dysphoria would be coming back so strong if I had a healthy happy marriage and/or felt good about my job. Of course, I might ask would I have a better marriage if I was gender dysphoric? Chicken or egg.
Quote from: ChiGirl on January 16, 2015, 03:56:11 PM
The thing is I haven't come out to her. Our marriage is falling apart even before me coming out.
I wonder sometimes if my gender dysphoria would be coming back so strong if I had a healthy happy marriage and/or felt good about my job. Of course, I might ask would I have a better marriage if I was gender dysphoric? Chicken or egg.
Hi ChiGirl,
Just a thought, but it seems your marriage is close to done. Perhaps telling her gently that you have gender dysphoria might help. I wonder if a little honesty might give her a little bit more security in the relationship. Remember to explain to her how hard it is to come out and you were always afraid how she would react. Perhaps coming out to her might ease some of the stress on you too?
Anyway, you'll know one way or the other if the relationship has any chance with you transitioning.
Good luck,
Paige :)
Thanks, Paige. That was really good advice. That felt right and I'm definitely going to use some of that.
I just feel like I can't hold it in, but I'm scared of the reaction. I'm less scared of out right rejection than I am with her not believing me or saying it's just because of my mental illness. "No, my mental illness and depression are the results of my gender dysphoria."
My gender therapist reminds me it's a journey and not to rush faster than I feel comfortable. My dad and my old therapist think I should get divorced first before I come out. I want to walk in our room and say:
"I love you. You are right. I have been lying to you, but only because I've been lying to myself. You say I'm not the man you married. I was never really the man you married. It was a false front. And who I am now is not really me, either. I have gender dysphoria. That means how I feel inside does not match how my body looks...
"This is hard for me and I never wanted to hurt you by telling you this. But I realized by hiding who I am, I was hurting myself and hurting you even more. I can't lie to you anymore. I don't know what this means for us going forward. I honestly don't, but I do know, I need to explore my feelings and find if I should transition or not. Because if I don't, I genuinely feel like I will die."
Of course, I would spend more time on the gender dysphoria part, but you gals get that.
Quote from: ChiGirl on January 17, 2015, 09:58:32 PM
Thanks, Paige. That was really good advice. That felt right and I'm definitely going to use some of that.
I just feel like I can't hold it in, but I'm scared of the reaction. I'm less scared of out right rejection than I am with her not believing me or saying it's just because of my mental illness. "No, my mental illness and depression are the results of my gender dysphoria."
My gender therapist reminds me it's a journey and not to rush faster than I feel comfortable. My dad and my old therapist think I should get divorced first before I come out. I want to walk in our room and say:
"I love you. You are right. I have been lying to you, but only because I've been lying to myself. You say I'm not the man you married. I was never really the man you married. It was a false front. And who I am now is not really me, either. I have gender dysphoria. That means how I feel inside does not match how my body looks...
"This is hard for me and I never wanted to hurt you by telling you this. But I realized by hiding who I am, I was hurting myself and hurting you even more. I can't lie to you anymore. I don't know what this means for us going forward. I honestly don't, but I do know, I need to explore my feelings and find if I should transition or not. Because if I don't, I genuinely feel like I will die."
Of course, I would spend more time on the gender dysphoria part, but you gals get that.
Yes my gender therapists have both said it isn't a race and to take small steps. Your plan seems good to me the only thing I would suggest is that you hesitate often between sentences so she can absorb what you're saying and you can show her how tough this is for you to say.
Good luck ChiGirl,
Paige :)
"Not telling my wife for 20 years that I suspected my core is indeed female = selfish. I didn't want to lose her.
Self-medding with alcohol and drugs for years to cope = selfish. I hated being miserable.
Deciding I don't really want to die just yet = selfish. Wait, or is that selfless? I didn't want people to have to grieve over me, you know.
Taking estrogen to resolve the underlying problem = selfish or selfless? My wife and family saw me do a 180. As a bonus, I'm much more pleasant to be around now that my head is screwed on right"
boy, replace wife with girlfriend and this describes it perfectly for me. I felt really horrible stringing her along because i was too scared to come out to her. but then i did. i cried a lot. she was angry id lied to her for 3 years. of course we broke up, but we still talk all the time. we're family and love eachother. shes italian and lives in rome so has about 3 boyfriends all F1 drivers haha! she seems happy and happy for me. good.
im very lucky i think not to have been pressured into marrying, that would have been truly selfish because i would have wasted years of her young life married to a male impersonator.
i understand but i dont entirely agree when i hear mtf people say theyre sacrificing their transition for their wife and kids. i think the wife would be glad to be out of a marriage with a depressed male impersonator asap and the kids would surely benefit from a happy parent not a depressed despairing one. I think in a way, not telling my girl and breaking up, and not transitioning, and so condemning everyone around to living with a miserable horrible version of myself who wanted to die wouldve been (was for years) much worse. my 2c
Oh PS i dont mean breaking up is 100% necessary, maybe some women find their partner so transformed they stick around and its very happy, but clinging on to her, using her as an excuse not to transition and so resenting her, and having sex be awkward not joyful, and having her resent me, for years.... never again
i think you are incredibly brave and not selfish.
Not selfish at all! Anyone who wants to claim that a transgender person is selfish because of transitioning, makes about as much sense as telling someone who is having a heart attack that they are being selfish because they're going to the ER.
Much love, dear! I hope all works out for you!
My wife and I both place the others happiness and well being above our own.
We would both think it is selfish to deny the other a chance for happiness
By this definition, who in your relationship is the "Selfish" one?