This happened to me a while ago, though for some odd reason never found any results online regarding this.
One of my friends knew about me wanting to transition back in 2013 and she kept insisting that I should be with her so that she can show me that being a boy isn't all that bad. I rejected the relationship of course.
I knew she didn't love me in that way, and I also knew she only wanted to "save me" from transitioning or making a huge mistake that is irreversible.
The reason I knew was because we have been friends for quite a while and she kept telling me that if I had a girlfriend, that I would change my mind. She also said that she wants to be a boy sometimes because boys have it easier, and I told her that it isn't the same thing because I actually want to change my gender and go through depression about it everyday. She insisted that she understood however.
The idea of her saying that actually makes me depressed, because she believes it's that simple.
My closest friend whom is in her 60's (I am in my 20's) says it's really hard because I have had absolutely 0 relationship experience. No dating, no kisses, no hand holding, no sex, absolutely no sexual experiences, etc. I partly agree with her, I don't know what relationships are like as a "boy" though I know deep in my heart I would never use my male anatomy regardless of whether I am in a relationship or not. Another problem is, I can only imagine how I'd be if I had female genitals. My friend is right, I don't know until the time has come.
I solely only want platonic friendships with women - I am personally more attracted to women then I am men (on a romantic, and emotional level) but I can see it being possible for me to be with a man, and personally I would rather be.
The point is, has anyone ever tried to "save you" before? And do you agree with my close friend about the no experience thing? (Just to be clear, she didn't tell me to get a relationship, she's just concerned for me - she is the only friend in my country who hasn't stopped talking to me after knowing my secret, or hasn't tried to change me, and has even agreed to help me dress up. I trust her with my life.)
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Quote from: XiaoMei on January 19, 2015, 11:07:36 AM
The point is, has anyone ever tried to "save you" before? And do you agree with my close friend about the no experience thing?
Yes, I've had a couple people try to save me. One claim that I'd have a really hard time finding love (she turned out to be right, though knowing what I do now, I'd have transitioned anyway).
As far as having no experience, well EVERYONE has no experience when they get started. You're really no different. Might help to have a few friends who have healthy experiences to bounce your thoughts off, but it's not rocket science.
Well, I'm 21 years old turning 22 soon, haha. I've rejected guys and girls my whole life (which is like maybe 5 or 6 people, at least one of them was a guy).
And I agree with you, even if I was "saved" it would have been temporary for me and I know I would have eventually transitioned anyways. The reminder of "you're a boy, and boys can't do this and that" doesn't exactly help either.
Unfortunately I have been hurt so many times I now avoid making friends. I'll be nice and neutral, but if someone wants to be my friend, I won't bother with them much. I have been betrayed, back stabbed, walked over, and even blocked numerous of times just for being transgender. I just don't trust people anymore. I've even been betrayed by Lesbians and Gays, which was shocking to me at the time. Most of my family won't speak to me (other then my siblings and mother) I know only one transgender person and I refuse to speak to her out of fear that she'll somehow betray me, it's gotten that bad. I only trust my friend in her 60's and my friend over seas (my age). That's it.
Besides, being alone isn't so bad, this way no one can grab your heart and hurt you any further ;). It's like a defense mechanism for myself I suppose, and it works for me.
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Being trans hasn't stopped me from experiencing love, or even from having flings. I used to think that once I had a girlfriend, I would no longer want to be a girl, or indulge in... my kink. ;)
Your desire to transition is not going to go away. If you have an LGBT clinic, I recommend going there to find counseling. Maybe even talk to a doctor about getting on T-blockers. See how it makes you feel.
Your friend is simply worried about you. She doesn't understand because she's not in your position. She shouldn't expect you to go against your own instincts and just trust her misguided judgment. She means well, but she doesn't know any better.
I would advise getting some counseling from someone who specializes in working with transgender individuals. They can help you work through personal issues as well as give you sound guidance to help you move forward.
The first real conversation I had with my best friend regarding being trans, a week after I randomly texted her that I thought I might be trans, she kept telling me how she sometimes wished she was a guy and somehow implied that all girls felt that way. At the time I was kinda offended and felt that she wasn't really listening, but really she was just telling me that, hey you should think about this some more and it's okay to feel the way you feel. Of course she's supportive and gets that it's a little more than just that for me, but that initial conversation where she was basically like, "we all feel this way" keeps coming back to me, and often I wonder whether it's actually somewhat true (like what your female friend said).
I don't think I've had a friend try to fix or save me, but I have had friends try to make me look at things in a different perspective. It kinda comes off as "hey maybe you feel this way because such and such," but I don't think they're invalidating your experience in so much as they're teying to understand how you feel and in that process eliminate what they might think is going on. Still annoying but I see where they're coming from. My mom does this too and it's frustrating, but when I tell her that she's not listening she says that she's only trying to make sense of what I'm saying.
On a separate note, two therapists I've seen have actually suggested that I "explore my sexuality." I get that the fact that I've never been in a relationship (but I know I like girls) kinda makes it a little hard for me to make sense of things because there's like that big unexplored side of me that I may want to know more about before, say, I decide to pursue transition. And I've expressed that I thought I was ace to them and that the idea of "exploring my sexuality" didn't sound appealing to me at all, but somehow I think if I was in a relationship (because a random hook up is absolutely out of the question in my head) I might try to "explore" that part just because it might be relevant. I don't think gender and sexuality are as unrelated as people set them out to be, at least not in my case I don't think. Maybe I think I'm ace because I've considered myself a female all this time? My therapists always shut me down when I mention this though.
I think it's normal for most people to imagine if life would be better as the other gender, but that is a lot different from being 'transgender'. Cis people might only question their gender once in a while, but For you (and me?), I guess it's like an unhealthy fixation that won't go away until you actually do something about it (transition or not).
She means well, but tell her how exhausting it is to be transgender, and that for you, wanting to be the other gender is not just a thought that comes to you once in a while. Maybe she'll understand.
Quote from: darkblade on January 20, 2015, 03:31:20 AMMaybe I think I'm ace because I've considered myself a female all this time?
OMG, this was exactly true for me, I thought I was the only one. When I started going out with someone for the first time ever and it was a girl, I thought I was ace. Then when I found out that I was trans I still thought I was ace for a time bcos I just couldn't imagine doing the 'other stuff'. I say for a time as the ace feelings have subsided a bit, but i'm not sure if I had the the ace feelings in the first place bcos i dont like my female body or bcos I've seen myself a female for so long, am demisexual or just queer. And they have now subsided bcos I've accepted myself more and accepted that it's sort of ok to explore your sexuality. Anyway, this is off topic, just had to share.
I think the 'no experience' and 'even I think of it sometimes' arguments are probably the best a cis person can do to try and understand our situation.
I agree with others here that they might mean well, even if it can still be frustrating to you.
In my case, I came out recently to my wife after a few years of marriage and almost a decade of being together. We've had a regular relationship so far, and whatever issues existed were all in my head which I couldn't make sense of until very recently. Before being with her, I remember times when I was attracted to some girl or the other but just could not understand the 'normal' male tendency of thinking of everything in a sexual way. Although the 'no experience' argument doesn't apply to me now, it would have probably convinced me then in my teenage years if I had suspected that I could be trans. I would have probably believed, either on my own or if a friend told me, that my confusion or lack of understanding stemmed from no experience.
The other arguments, that 'even I think of it sometimes' and 'maybe you can do xyz to get over it' are also quite common I guess. The latter was in fact my wife's first reaction, and it's taken her a couple of weeks to sort of accept that it's not temporary or something one can get over, although we are both in 'wait and watch' mode for the near future to see really how permanent my feelings are.
So I would just say that you can perhaps give the benefit of doubt to any cis person who is just trying to understand your situation. As long as they don't actively try to change you or suggest someone who can 'cure' you, in which case just keep away from them. :P
Quote from: XiaoMei on January 19, 2015, 11:07:36 AMMy closest friend whom is in her 60's (I am in my 20's) says it's really hard because I have had absolutely 0 relationship experience. No dating, no kisses, no hand holding, no sex, absolutely no sexual experiences, etc. I partly agree with her, I don't know what relationships are like as a "boy" though I know deep in my heart I would never use my male anatomy regardless of whether I am in a relationship or not. Another problem is, I can only imagine how I'd be if I had female genitals. My friend is right, I don't know until the time has come.
Quote from: darkblade on January 20, 2015, 03:31:20 AMOn a separate note, two therapists I've seen have actually suggested that I "explore my sexuality." I get that the fact that I've never been in a relationship (but I know I like girls) kinda makes it a little hard for me to make sense of things because there's like that big unexplored side of me that I may want to know more about before, say, I decide to pursue transition.
As an older trans person, I cringed when I read these two posts - only because I was that person once and it led to a couple of decades going down the wrong road. I put away all of my transgender feelings and "explored" my sexuality, tried to have a relationship with a woman, had kids, and did everything I could to avoid addressing the core issue. Almost like self-imposed reparative therapy; if I choose to be a straight cis guy, if I want it bad enough, then I'll be one, right? Doesn't work like that though.
By all means go out and explore what it's like to be a "normal" male and date girls, have sex, kiss, whatever you like. (Be careful with those girls' hearts though - and your own, too.) In my mind, that's a really bad way of figuring out that you're trans. I'm suspicious of any therapist or counselor who encourages a process of elimination as a means to concluding that one is trans - i.e. telling you to go out and try to be straight, then gay, then try better hobbies, maybe focus on volunteer work, travel, find a fulfilling career, then try whatever else you haven't experienced, and then if you're still thinking that you're trans, you probably are because that's all that's left. Except what you don't have left is time. You'll be middle aged, married, have a couple of kids, and utterly stuck.
Why not find a therapist who starts with the assumption that you
are trans, saves you years more pain, and cuts right to the chase?
If you're trans, you're trans. If you're not, you're not. Whether you start from the perspective that you
are trans or that you
aren't trans, the eventual conclusion will most likely be the same. :)
Quote from: Brenda E on January 20, 2015, 07:35:13 AM
As an older trans person, I cringed when I read these two posts - only because I was that person once and it led to a couple of decades going down the wrong road. I put away all of my transgender feelings and "explored" my sexuality, tried to have a relationship with a woman, had kids, and did everything I could to avoid addressing the core issue. Almost like self-imposed reparative therapy; if I choose to be a straight cis guy, if I want it bad enough, then I'll be one, right? Doesn't work like that though.
By all means go out and explore what it's like to be a "normal" male and date girls, have sex, kiss, whatever you like. (Be careful with those girls' hearts though - and your own, too.) In my mind, that's a really bad way of figuring out that you're trans. I'm suspicious of any therapist or counselor who encourages a process of elimination as a means to concluding that one is trans - i.e. telling you to go out and try to be straight, then gay, then try better hobbies, maybe focus on volunteer work, travel, find a fulfilling career, then try whatever else you haven't experienced, and then if you're still thinking that you're trans, you probably are because that's all that's left. Except what you don't have left is time. You'll be middle aged, married, have a couple of kids, and utterly stuck.
I feel like I should clarify position is probably much different from XiaoMei's but I'm in college and I also identified myself as ace. When he said explore your sexuality it was probably in response to me saying that, and also because I said I have no bottom dysphoria (I agree though, probably not the best therapist as he saw that as a red flag), he didn't say oh try dating a different kind of people, he just said well it might be worthwhile to try dating (in my case I would date girls) to see how that would feel. He was very pro having a solid identity of who I was (including sexuality) before pursuing transition. My response however is that I'm not interested, that's all being ace is about, isn't it? What I'm saying is specific to me being ace though, because it more of an absence than a presence if I'm making any sense. If you're sexually attracted to one gender or another, I don't think it makes sense to "explore" the other direction. Also, never force yourself to do something you really don't want to for the sake of having tried it out. Would probably do more harm than good.
Nope, I don't agree. At all.
Sexual preference is not the same as gender identity. You can have all the sex and relationships you want right now, but it won't be anything like experiencing the same things as the gender you identify with. In the end, you will have to experiment in order to discover what you like, and what gets you off, but none of that will change your gender identification.
I've been through a full on awkward intervention because a well intentioned person didn't understand that I was telling them I was transgender. I literally had to tell them again, but with the words, "I am transgender, and I hope you will support me through it, because my only option is to transition."
I love it when people came to me saying I first need to have sexual experience to be sure of it. Because I couldn't know before sex. Really? So straight men should have sex with other men to make sure they really are sure, and the same for women? Everyone follows their feelings and thoughts and this starts on a very early age. Just because you did what you thought you had to do for quite a while, does not mean your feelings are incorrect. You just didn't stand behind your own decisions till now > _ <.
When I transitioned I can remember it was the surgery, that was what bugged them. Are you sure you want this? You will be miserable? etc etc, etc. I had a lot of people who wanted to try and talk me out of it. That was my experience.
As far as the sex thing is concerned, if that's all there was to this it would be a black and white subject. But being a female 24/7 isn't about sex. It's about social status and one's place in the world. Those are a lot more sublime.
Suppose you said yes and decided to use the noodley appendage to give her the thing that she thinks will rescue you. Do you think it will fundamentally change you, honestly? I mean look around on this forum at the people who are having the "wife conversation" after 20 years of marriage saying they want to be women. Do you think the sex made much of a difference?
The only person in this world who was ever able to talk me out of a transition was me, that's it. Anything else I did was simply to please other people at the cost of my own happiness. That was until I couldn't take it any longer. That was my own reality.
As far as the sex thing is concerned I have had the pleasure of trying it both ways, indoor and outdoor plumbing and I take the female point of view any day of the week :)
Quote from: Lostkitten on January 20, 2015, 02:56:14 PMSo straight men should have sex with other men to make sure they really are sure, and the same for women?
Exactly - it's ridiculous. So tired of the "straight and cis is normal" attitude that is still pervasive. The sign of a great gender therapist? When you finally get the courage to walk into her or his office and say that you're transgender, their first words should be, "Congratulations! How can I help in your transition?", and not, "Nah, go bang a few girls/guys and that'll set you straight; you thinking you're 'trans' is just a sexual fantasy, so go get yourself the real thing."
Quote from: Obfuskatie on January 20, 2015, 11:48:40 AM
In the end, you will have to experiment in order to discover what you like, and what gets you off, but none of that will change your gender identification.
Exactly too. And discovering what gets you off has nothing to do with exploring what your gender identity is. The two are independent. The only overlap is in the practicalities of obtaining suitable partners.
I'm glad that there is others who've had a similar experience as me. I've read up about people getting married and having children and still wanting to change their gender afterwards - yet this argument seems to be invalid to most cispeople (At least the ones I spoke to about it).
As a boy, I'd never want to do anything sexual, regardless of whether the person is female or male. The thought of me using my organ like that makes me cringe. It doesn't seem right.
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To be honest, I have just the same (awful) dysphoria when I'm a relationship with a boy or a girl. Some things are different but not the feeling I'm not female.
And don't worry, trans or not trans, you can't know how sex will be like until you try, so I don't see why it would be better to have sex before deciding to transition. I don't think cis people worry about how it would be to have sex with the other gender's genitals before trying to have sex with their own...
So, why is it that psychologists suggest this then if it doesn't seem to work? I can only imagine it'd put more heart break on the individual if they're stuck in a relationship. Relationships aren't toys, so I don't get why it's suggested.
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Maybe because those 'psychologists' themselves do not know the difference between gender identity and sexual orientation? Or even if they know, they let it be obscured by their personal prejudices?
Yep, I think if anyone suggests you to explore your sexuality when you talk about gender identity, they are confusing concepts. No matter they are psychologists or plumbers.
Did you ask your therapist the link he or she does between sexuality and gender identity ? (Could inform you about how confused it is for them and you could decide if it's a good idea to continue with them).
Quote from: Ptero on January 25, 2015, 07:32:50 AM
Yep, I think if anyone suggests you to explore your sexuality when you talk about gender identity, they are confusing concepts. No matter they are psychologists or plumbers.
Did you ask your therapist the link he or she does between sexuality and gender identity ? (Could inform you about how confused it is for them and you could decide if it's a good idea to continue with them).
I think it's more likely that there are a lot of psychologists that want to diagnose you themselves. Walking in to see them for the first time and saying, "Hi, I think I'm trans," can be off putting for some. Also, there are a lot of cis-people who think that being trans is a bad thing that you should avoid embracing at all cost. They tell you to exhaust all the other possibilities before you go with transgender, since they have no clue how big the trans-population actually is and how successful you can be in your transition with enough money and dedication.
If you do decide to transition, find a gender-specialist for your therapy. Don't take shortcuts; fillers and blackmarket hormones can kill you. Be patient with yourself, and with the important people around you, adaptation takes time. And good luck.
yeah, I was starting from the principle that the therapist was ignorant but wanted to help, not to deny someone's identity. But you could be right, perhaps it's just they think being trans is "bad"... (how naïve can I be ?!)
I spoke to my friend again (she randomly contacted me) and when I explained to her in more detail why I am changing my gender, she seemed unhappy, but at the same time told me that she accepts my decision (she has a boyfriend now anyways), when I asked her why she bothered to speak to me still if she is so against this, she said to me "It's not like we are getting married" which is true!!
I also wondered, do some people freak out because they had a crush in you or something, and when you tell them you're trans, they think something like "Wait... Am I a lesbian...?!" So they get confused and distance themselves. I'm sure some people are just trans phobic in general though.
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