I am depressed out of my mind, and the only thing I hate the most is the size of my skull and my hands. Most of the problems with my body have solutions, its just my bloody bone structure which can't change. It isn't normal for guys my height to have such a small head, hands, shoulders etc, even if people don't see me as female I'll always look a bit off and strange due to it. I know it isn't all about looks etc etc but there is a difference between looking ugly and basically looking deformed. All the surgeries are going to be so much effort, the whole transition will be.
I just don't see the point, I can either be a female or some odd pin headed freak, both of which are far from appealing. The fact that their is nothing I can do, no solution to making my head, hands or feet larger honestly gives me heart ache. This also maybe upsetting to FTMs, but whenever I see one on YouTube or whatever, they never sound male. They sound like they have the gay accent, or some entrapped voice. I just want to be a normal guy. I can never be, and it breaks my heart.
I don't know why I'm posting here, you can hardly suggest some head enlargement pills to me. My way of coping with things my entire life is "it could change, it might get better in the future". And I've finally found a problem that can never change, and it is driving me insane.
I understand how you feel entirely. I'm 5 feet tall and very small framed. My feet and hands are too small even for women's sizes. I will never look like a normal guy. So "transitioning" is pointless to me too. A lot of me feels like I'll just be warping the only body I have to chase a dream I'll never catch. So...I'm going to be non-op. No HRT. And I have to find ways to be ok with that. To be ok with who and what I am and make adjustments where possible/realistic.
That's exactly how I feel, I'm chasing a dream I can never catch. You're brave for not transitioning, I hope you find some sort of peace with your body. I don't think I will ever be able to. This is the one life you get, and we just have to be ->-bleeped-<-ed over by biology for it. This is all I will get, I will never have the biological male body. I don't think I can live with that.
The smallest hands I know except my wife's actually belong to a cis guy friend if mine, and no he is not a midget or have some "weird" condition, he's actually taller than me (I'm 5'9) . I don't know if you plan on hormones but my head got bigger after hormones , It's not because my bone structure changed ofcourse but something happened (I'm guessing muscles or fat) I can't wear my old hats at all.
And about the ftm sound like we all have a gay accent or an entrapped voice, you are entitled to you're opinion but I don't think that's the truth at all. I don't think none of my friends voices sound like that nor mine, people have different voices, I was part of a study at the Karolinska university in Stockholm so i actually know what Hertz i mostly use when I talk and what I sound like,and the doctor told me that I actually talk about 25 Hertz lower than the median range of males in my age.
(English isn't my first language so I hope this all was understand able since I used words I don't use very often)
Hey guys, I apologize if I don't belong here because I am MTF, but I just decided I would read these FTM boards and this is the first thread I clicked. and I'm glad I did.
Scottie and Jack, this is to both of you:
I am 6' tall (5'11" really), I will never be able to get shoes out of the store because my foot size exceeds that of most women. I have a strong brow, a very masculine feature; and to top it all off when I was trying to be all macho I filled my arms with some pretty insane tattoos like skulls, swords, panthers and junk. I look at myself, my 2x4 straight body, in the mirror and LAUGH at the prospect of being able to pass as a woman. Just the other day I expressed all this along with my uncertainty of my GID in a thread (check my post history) and I got some good insight telling me things like hormones can do so much and I'll never know if I'll pass unless I take the plunge, and they told me to stop living for others! So I am passing that knowledge on to you two.
Also, Jack, I have a good friend who is 5'2". He's an Afro-American guy and TRUST ME he is never, ever, ever taken as a woman. My father is very short for a man as well. You're just a short guy, and I'll just be a tall woman. Oh and let me add this, I have known other short guys and almost all of them hate it. Growing up in male culture I can assure you, virtually no guy likes it, yourself included.
I am learning here to not fixate on the negatives and focus on the positives. With respect to Hormones and passing Someone on these boards told me: "you will have highs and lows - but there have been more highs for me."
I know you two are FTM and I am MTF, but I see some common ground here and from the bottom of my heart I wish you two the best. <3
There are a lot of options for guys who struggle with body dysphoria. My first recommendation (even though its not even possible for me) is to try to find a good therapist. You're going through something you shouldn't have to shoulder alone. There are ways you can live and even have moments of self acceptance and happiness without being totally "passing".
I went and got myself a hair cut. Its not exactly what I wanted and I'm going to need it "fixed" at a barber shop, but even that small detail helps a lot. A tank top over a sports bra also helps me. Buying men's sweat pants to sit around in. Just small details that ease some of the daily dysphoria. It's not easy. And honestly it doesn't feel "fair". But don't throw in the towel just yet.
Petti--thank you for the words of encouragement, but I feel the need to clarify something. I can't speak for others so this is all my own feelings. I know "passing" isn't a big deal to some people and it is for others. It's a big deal to me. But not because I'm living for anyone else. If I were on a deserted island all by myself, I'd still want to be passing. I would still obsess over my narrow wrists and my short torso. I know its not healthy and shouldn't be my goal, but it's still something I struggle with. Its not about what other people see when they look at me, its about what I see when I look at myself. I'm trying hard to be ok with what I see. To dress and carry myself in a way I can be proud of. Its a process, to say the least! But I do appreciate the kind words.
Quote from: ScottyMac on February 01, 2015, 06:40:13 PM
I just don't see the point, I can either be a female or some odd pin headed freak, both of which are far from appealing.
I am one of those odd pin headed freaks!! I am a man...though not with the skeleton I wish I had. It is a struggle, yes, but so much better than being female, and my girlfriend seems to find me appealing, especially since I wear hats made for little kids :laugh:
I did not know that skull size dissatisfaction was a serious problem for anyone. I'm sorry.
I'm sure my anecdotes don't change your experience, but my head is apparently small. I've never been able to find headsets or hats that fit. I often feel like Feivel Mouskewitz (sp?) wearing his dad's hat. Also my daughter has a gigantic head. She's not even a grownup and her head is way bigger than mine. I feel like most strangers probably don't notice that kind of thing.
Hands are different. Everybody notices hands. I had super tiny hands even for a girl, so as a man I sometimes get self-conscious when I'm hanging on bus straps. I'm lucky though in that my cismale father also has very small hands. I was raised to believe that it was just bad luck if you were a musician, and good luck if you wanted to get out of handcuffs.
Some of this size stuff can have a lot to do with nutrition. I associate small hands/head/height etc way more with foster care kids and poor people than gender, at least when white or black people are involved.
Quote from: ScottyMac on February 01, 2015, 06:40:13 PM
I just don't see the point, I can either be a female or some odd pin headed freak, both of which are far from appealing. The fact that their is nothing I can do, no solution to making my head, hands or feet larger honestly gives me heart ache. This also maybe upsetting to FTMs, but whenever I see one on YouTube or whatever, they never sound male. They sound like they have the gay accent, or some entrapped voice. I just want to be a normal guy. I can never be, and it breaks my heart.
That's far from true. You must not have watched very many videos of trans men if you think none of them sound male.
You are far from the only guy with very small features out there. There are trans and cis men out there who have very small features, some even without being very short. Try to focus on the positive, try to focus on the things that you can change, instead of the things you cannot change.
Quote from: wheat thins are delicious on February 01, 2015, 09:16:34 PM
That's far from true. You must not have watched very many videos of trans men if you think none of them sound male.
Yeah I wish I had noted that, for sure transguys often win hard on voices. That's one of our easiest obstacles to navigate.
Quote from: ScottyMac on February 01, 2015, 06:40:13 PM
I am depressed out of my mind, and the only thing I hate the most is the size of my skull and my hands. Most of the problems with my body have solutions, its just my bloody bone structure which can't change. It isn't normal for guys my height to have such a small head, hands, shoulders etc, even if people don't see me as female I'll always look a bit off and strange due to it. I know it isn't all about looks etc etc but there is a difference between looking ugly and basically looking deformed. All the surgeries are going to be so much effort, the whole transition will be.
I just don't see the point, I can either be a female or some odd pin headed freak, both of which are far from appealing. The fact that their is nothing I can do, no solution to making my head, hands or feet larger honestly gives me heart ache. This also maybe upsetting to FTMs, but whenever I see one on YouTube or whatever, they never sound male. They sound like they have the gay accent, or some entrapped voice. I just want to be a normal guy. I can never be, and it breaks my heart.
I don't know why I'm posting here, you can hardly suggest some head enlargement pills to me. My way of coping with things my entire life is "it could change, it might get better in the future". And I've finally found a problem that can never change, and it is driving me insane.
with all due respect, there are several ftms that sound cis. the ones that sound 'gay' or have an 'entrapped voice' sounded that way beforehand.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZTxB7Qvs6S5q6QIG9ZO6xw/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/MrPinocchio17/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/BentonSorensen/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/skylarkeleven/videos
and so forth
For what it's worth, I mostly interact with people who have little to no awareness of lgbt stuff, and nobody at all guessed that I'm trans or gay after my first year or two of testosterone. Even when I tell people that I'm gay they often don't believe me, and when I tell them I'm trans they usually think I'm mtf. You can be a passable guy with any body if you have a deep voice or hair or enough other visible gender markers.
I am 5'1", have a very small frame, and small hands. AND read as male about 99% of the time (1 year and 10 months on T). I also have zero body hair (though some wispy facial hair, kind of beat generation).
Don't know re: my voice. It's VERY low. But I think I am on the effeminate side.
Lots of things could stand in your way if you let them. I believe a confident attitude is really key.
Perhaps therapy with a great therapist who will understand the gender stuff.
--Jay
I have a small head, and I'm losing hair, so I appear to have even less actual volume than I had. Doesn't seem to matter to other people.
My hands are also small, but I compared with my cis buddy's mitts, and we are almost precisely the same size. I do obsess a bit over my hands, and I conceal them sometimes. Nobody seems to notice them--just me.
I've seen all manner of men with all manner of proportions, and they seem to just go through their lives. I see an occasional short guy getting hassled by a tall guy, but that's about it.
If I had avoided HRT out of worry over my two problematic physical attributes, I would probably be dead now. Transition saved my life. Your mileage may vary. Just stay away from San Francisco.
Scotty, I can totally relate. I'm 6 foot and my head is tiny. I have always hated that it's so small and I always tried to make it appear bigger with the help of hairstyles. If I go on t, I'm bound to lose hair and it worries me immensely because then I won't be able to hide the size of my skull anymore.
But I know that this is an issue that I'll be able to work on with my therapist. Therapists know how to fix that kind of stuff (as opposed to gid). So I try to put this out of my head for the time being.
And I'll just share this little episode: recently, waiting for my train, I saw this guy on the platform -- he had my built pretty much, a small head, balding. And he still looked good. [emoji16] That gave me hope!
I have remarked that I look/sound "gay", though what that means exactly... But anyway, not everybody agrees with that assessment. I am not even particularly concerned about it, but have commented. I think a lot of this is somewhat, let's say, you know they are trans, if you didn't you would not be able to tell. Your viewpoint is prejudiced by your knowledge.
The other thing in my case, I really don't care. But if you did care you can work at masculinizing your voice. It's not usually actually the voice anyway, it's more how you say certain sounds or words. You can practice this and get more "masculine sounding", if you want. A lot of this is shaped by experience living in society as female. So just as habits are learned they can be unlearned.
There are also programs that can help with this (Evan M Breathe and Eva M Pitch, for iPhone and Android), exercises you can find, and you can even go to a speech therapist.
(I know this is common for the gals, but speech therapists can know about trans guys as well.
--Jay
Quote from: Felix on February 01, 2015, 09:25:45 PM
Yeah I wish I had noted that, for sure transguys often win hard on voices. That's one of our easiest obstacles to navigate.
Skeletal structure is something almost all of us who transition in either direction are unhappy with, since HRT does nothing for it. I would say about transitioning that you are probably truly "ready" to transition if even the worst case scenarios are better than staying put. Meaning, if you are okay with being an out transgendered person--one that everyone can see is transgendered yet you are okay with that and think you can be proud and confident despite it, and if this still sounds better than living trapped as someone you aren't, then go for it. If you are okay with the worst case (assuming you're honest about it), you can only pleasantly surprise yourself. And the reality is almost always better.
I'm incredibly small in my country because I live in the land of giants (the Netherlands is among the countries with the tallest people of the world). I'm sure I too have tiny hands and a tiny skull.
Like you, these were reasons for me to not transition for years. I would end up this tiny, odd looking dwarf freak. I did not want that. So I opted to try and live as female. Big mistake. Over the years I got more and more unhappy. Everyday there were reminders that my body was (seen as) female. It was horrible. So I gave in. I decided that I preferred to be this dwarf male freak than to stay a female. At least I was male then. I know that was a horrible way to look at it, and very disrespectful towards transman. But that was my train of thought back then.
Among cis men there is a lot of variation. Sure, on average they are taller, have bigger heads and hands etc. But there are also many deviations. You may think you have a small head, but there sure are cis guys who have that too. There is no rule. And it will not get you clocked. People may not notice and in the rare case they do they will think ' heh, that -guy- has a small head'. They will not think 'huh, that person has a small head so it must be female'.
Almost everybody has body image issues and would like to change some aspects. Of course, among transmen this is more prevalent, but also cis guys can be unhappy about a lot of things. They wish they were slimmer, more muscular, more manly, have a bigger penis, remove that ugly mole, you name it. Just accept that no one is perfect, including you. And focus on the things you can change instead of the few things that cannot change.
My story ends well. Once I decided to give zero ->-bleeped-<-s about my size and started to transition, a weight was lifted. Now, almost 2 years on hormones later, I'm very glad I finally made the decision to change my life. I'm seen as male all the time, regardless of the size of my body, hands and head. Best choice I ever made.
I'm self-conscious of my head size/shape, and my hands, too. But the simple fact is, being born a cis male wouldn't have guaranteed me a more average dome. It wouldn't have guaranteed me big beefy fingers. I work at a job that deals with tons of people, day in, day out. Some guys have delicate hands/allover bone-structure. Some guys are shorter than I am (and I am below average height already). Some of them "sound gay" or have a voice that, over the phone, I would not be sure if they were male or female - or might straight up mistake them for a lady. I don't whip out a tape measure and check their head sizes, but that varies too. It is statistically impossible that all these guys are trans.
There are cis guys who have to deal with this same crap. Yes, it sucks to deal with. Yes, it sucks even more because we have genuinely trans-specific issues to deal with on top of it. But all you can do is try to make the best of what you have. That's all anybody can do. Nobody gets to custom-order their ideal body.
I know more about this stuff than your average person. I know enough to know, that I don't know (whether someone is trans). There has been exactly one time that I saw a guy at work and knew he was trans. Do you know how I knew he was trans? Was it because he had small hands? Short? Small head size?
It was because I've met him at the local support group before.
Quote from: blink on February 02, 2015, 06:46:34 AM
I'm self-conscious of my head size/shape, and my hands, too. But the simple fact is, being born a cis male wouldn't have guaranteed me a more average dome. It wouldn't have guaranteed me big beefy fingers. I work at a job that deals with tons of people, day in, day out. Some guys have delicate hands/allover bone-structure. Some guys are shorter than I am (and I am below average height already). Some of them "sound gay" or have a voice that, over the phone, I would not be sure if they were male or female - or might straight up mistake them for a lady. I don't whip out a tape measure and check their head sizes, but that varies too. It is statistically impossible that all these guys are trans.
There are cis guys who have to deal with this same crap. Yes, it sucks to deal with. Yes, it sucks even more because we have genuinely trans-specific issues to deal with on top of it. But all you can do is try to make the best of what you have. That's all anybody can do. Nobody gets to custom-order their ideal body.
I know more about this stuff than your average person. I know enough to know, that I don't know (whether someone is trans). There has been exactly one time that I saw a guy at work and knew he was trans. Do you know how I knew he was trans? Was it because he had small hands? Short? Small head size?
It was because I've met him at the local support group before.
I second this. I too work at a job where I deal with/see many people, and from many different places, and these things really do vary so much. I'm 5'2" and I see guys all the time who are my height or shorter. I know it's a crappy thing to have to deal with on top of everything else, but please do your best to not let those two things stop you from being yourself and living a happy life.
Quote from: Mr.X on February 02, 2015, 03:57:22 AM
Once I decided to give zero ->-bleeped-<-s about my size and started to transition, a weight was lifted.
This what I finally had to do over this same issue. Right at the beginning of taking T, I was out with a cis male friend, and I saw our reflection in a window at a store. My head was so, so much smaller than his. I had never even thought about head size until that moment. Then, I could not stop thinking about it and got a lot of anxiety about it.
But nothing can be done. And there was no way I was going to say to myself, "Well, I would transition but my head is too small." "I would be tons happier about myself and in life, but you know what, gosh darn my head is tiny." Yeah, not happening. So it is what it is. You just gotta get over it.
The skull size difference between men and women is 53 cm vs 57cm. Sounds like a lot? NOt exactly that's cm not inches. I believe it's about an inch and half. Which means all the way around. If you'd compare to height of the person (men average being taller, probably bigger skull size), I think it's probably a wash-- iow, a 5'5" man and a 5'5" woman would have the same skull size. I'd say wear a hat, there are a number of unisex hats out there, usually ball caps. I often wear a newsboy hat. Fishermen or military hats nice on guys with smaller heads.
--Jay
Quote from: spacerace on February 03, 2015, 05:18:34 AM
This what I finally had to do over this same issue. Right at the beginning of taking T, I was out with a cis male friend, and I saw our reflection in a window at a store. My head was so, so much smaller than his. I had never even thought about head size until that moment. Then, I could not stop thinking about it and got a lot of anxiety about it.
But nothing can be done. And there was no way I was going to say to myself, "Well, I would transition but my head is too small." "I would be tons happier about myself and in life, but you know what, gosh darn my head is tiny." Yeah, not happening. So it is what it is. You just gotta get over it.
Quote from: ScottyMac on February 01, 2015, 06:40:13 PM
I am depressed out of my mind, and the only thing I hate the most is the size of my skull and my hands. Most of the problems with my body have solutions, its just my bloody bone structure which can't change. It isn't normal for guys my height to have such a small head, hands, shoulders etc, even if people don't see me as female I'll always look a bit off and strange due to it. I know it isn't all about looks etc etc but there is a difference between looking ugly and basically looking deformed. All the surgeries are going to be so much effort, the whole transition will be.
I just don't see the point, I can either be a female or some odd pin headed freak, both of which are far from appealing. The fact that their is nothing I can do, no solution to making my head, hands or feet larger honestly gives me heart ache. This also maybe upsetting to FTMs, but whenever I see one on YouTube or whatever, they never sound male. They sound like they have the gay accent, or some entrapped voice. I just want to be a normal guy. I can never be, and it breaks my heart.
I don't know why I'm posting here, you can hardly suggest some head enlargement pills to me. My way of coping with things my entire life is "it could change, it might get better in the future". And I've finally found a problem that can never change, and it is driving me insane.
Everyone has already given some great advice and insight, so there's not much else I can add, but I'm curious if you're actually overstating how small your head is. Dysphoria (and general self-conscious behaviour) can skew your perceptions a bit and cause you to catastrophize things. Maybe it's not as small as you think?
I feel similar, most people are giants compared to my frame. I'm 5"5 and even people that are shorter tend to be bigger because I'm a 22 year old chipmunk that looks 14. Then I think about what people have said on this thread because I have seen and been around men read as cis that have a small frame we go hip and hip and I honestly think its a turn on (yeah tmi) to be around hot men my size maybe because I can pick them up and them the same. When it comes to our society I think a majority may determine gender by mannerisms and physical characterists such as flat chest, face hair, jawline? Im very sorry, if this doesn't help. I think the previous answers did it for me and made me think that I need to tweak my thinking a bit, of course my dysphoria will still be there, but trying more positive thoughts...
I am the same, my stature itself is small... My hands, wrists, head... I am 5'1, 23 yrs old, been on t for a while and still have to wear childrens / youth hats and i jus suck it up
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm sorry... but this made me laugh... not at you, but because it reminds me of a story.
Before I was out to anyone except my girlfriend at the time I was taking a bio class at my school. One of the kids at my lab table just decided I was clearly a boy (despite my overtly female name) and referred to me as he ect. One lab early on in the semester we were measuring head sizes to essentially discredit the "bigger head/brain = smarter" theory of the past. Two of the smallest head measurements came from me and this guy at my table. Neither of us were considered "less male" for it. I was referred to as male for the rest of that 15 week semester... pre surgery... pre hormones... even pre coming out... pre-attempting to pass.
Another anecdote:
I was at a mask workshop last week, and the instructor (a big burly man... probably around 5'9 with a shaved head and a foot long beard) commented at one point that he had a "baby head" saying that he legitimately could wear his friend's 3 year old son's hat comfortably. I would have never noticed. Even after the comment, when one is of course bound to then take a closer look, his head didn't look small at all.
As trans people we tend to pick apart any detail of our morphology... ->-bleeped-<- NO ONE else notices or cares about or even connects as being male vs female.
You know, I've long likened trans people to artists.
We see our bodies like a painter sees their most recent painting. We pick it apart, we criticize it, we put it down, we insist to everyone around us that there's something wrong with it, even when other people see it and think it's perfectly fine, and in many cases is absolutely gorgeous.
Every cis male I've met, has had their own version of that same problem. They feel it too, for sure. My brother is masculine, tall, and very handsome, and he constantly remarks about he dislikes being so short (5'9) or his hands are too small, or his head is too long, or his legs are too curvy.
The truth is that we are our own worst critics, and it's hard to ask someone you know for an opinion because automatically you believe deep down that they will tell you what you want to hear, even if what they're saying to you, really is the truth but you can't see it.
Now as for a magical head size increasing pill...There's of course no such thing as pills which are magic.
Everyone knows magic medicine is in the form of powders and elixirs!
But aside from that, many men I've met in this incredible community have mentioned that their feet, hands, head, necks, and wrists have all grown larger while on T. The bones can't suddenly change shape, but the muscles, fat, ligaments, etc. Can indeed thicken enough to make you go up a shoe size, or a hat size.
And take it from the man who's made costumes for a living, I've gotten some of my smallest head measurements from men who looked perfectly normal and proportional, even if the circumference and length of their skull was smaller than the average female customer.
I myself range on the small side, and all that does is make my shoulders look bigger!
Now, to address the voice issue.
I have to respectfully disagree on it as a large scale generalization, because the majority of trans men I have met have clearly male voices, even some who haven't had a drop of T.
Yes, some FTM guys DO have slightly more feminine sounding voices, or speech mannerisms. But many of these guys on Youtube are either in the process of beginning their journey into transitioning (Which major vocal changes can happen as quickly as months, or as slow as years depending on your genetics, where you start, and if you do any vocal therapy to assist it.) or are still in a masculine vocal range, but are being listened to by someone who's attuned to picking out flaws in other people's voices, because they do it to themselves, and to discern their own likelihood of being able to sound male based on other people's results. (Which is actually quite inaccurate, mind you.)
All of these things...We pick them out much more harshly than the cis people we're living side by side with, because we think we need to.
But the truth is, we don't. We come in as many shapes and sizes, sounds and looks as cis people do.
Dysphoria hurts, but try not to let yourself be discouraged by self judgement. Transitioning may not be for everyone, but don't convince yourself you /cant/ due to your dysphoria making it so you want to pick yourself apart piece by piece.
You have your brothers and sisters standing beside you. And maybe talking to a gender counselor will help you get an impartial view on these issues, and someone to bounce thoughts off of who you can trust not to sugarcoat it.
I'm pretty sure he has. Very small skull size is related to severe cognitive disorders. So a slightly smaller skull circumference isn't really too apparent to others and not important in the grand scheme of things. I am not saying that dysphoria isn't real. Just saying that it is likely the OP is hyperaware of a very small difference that others could likely not even notice.
--Jay
Quote from: kast on February 03, 2015, 06:57:32 PM
Everyone has already given some great advice and insight, so there's not much else I can add, but I'm curious if you're actually overstating how small your head is. Dysphoria (and general self-conscious behaviour) can skew your perceptions a bit and cause you to catastrophize things. Maybe it's not as small as you think?