Hello,
ive a bit strange question: I follow since long time different forums, facebook-groups, a.s.o. ...
In my eyes transwomen from US in most cases have clearly better results from HRT than the germans. I dont understand it. Where are the reason? A lot of US-transgender looks very feminine, get a feminine face, hair and body. In germany most transgirls older than 30 will never pass in their life. I know very much girls having really masculine traits in their face. Most of us got no breasts ... maybe a AAA or a AA. Maybe 10% gets an A. The only transgirls in germany that will really pass are around 16-20 years. I met 2 other girls around 30-40 this weekend and we all havent a little sign of a new fat distribution after 2 years of hormones, nobody of us. Why?
Why the "your HRT" is working better the our german HRT? ???
Ive no answer for it!
Hugs Galaxy
Hi Galaxy,
I am 25% German.
I go to a Primary Care that has 8 PA-C's and Nurse Practitioners and two Medical Doctors as well as support staff and Nurses. The vast majority (almost all) of the patients are trans. They own the Pharmacy next door and provide meds at cost. The have several locations and have HIV testing places, food banks, clothing, legal, therapist and Psychologists and group. They also sponsor the largest trans health care conference in the world. So, there is a lot of resources available. Also, surgery can help issues that meds can not.
Hi Galaxy,
What sort of HRT do you get in Germany?
What is a typical program like (minus dosage of course)?
Uhm... not sure if there's any real basis to that. Anyway, I've read a study done in Europe that showed about 60% of transsexuals here don't disclose their transsexuality to their employers. Could be because the majority of them ends up blending in (passing)...
*mod edit for content
I started at very late forties bordering fifties, that's about 40 years on from the onset of puberty... It's also been stated to me and have read many pieces of info on the subject... The results of HRT progressively take longer once puberty has been passed by year...
I have been on HRT for over 10 years, higher doses since last 6 years... But I still have a long way to go... 34B'ish Bra size....
So as for Germany / Europe, maybe it's the dosage that may have been notionally agreed upon by medical practitioners over there, or maybe it's also food and lifestyle... There may be many reasons..
I must admit I have not realised the initial thread opening statement, so unable to comment on actual visual impact... Interesting all the same though :P
L Katy
Does HRT in Germany include progesterone? Can you use a wide range of delivery methods for estradiol? It would be interesting as well to know what the German medial guidelines are for what range hormone levels should be. I actually know a couple of women who are German are have gone through transition (in North America), and the results have been very good on HRT. I am 1/2 half German and I have been happy as well.
Hopefully that isn't gibberish, just poorly written. [emoji6]
Ich bin 50% Deutsch. Haben sie FFS im Deutschland? Ich glaube dass die Deutschen können so erfolgreich wie jemand sein. Sie wären überrascht, wie viel HRT(Östrogen, Anti-Androgen und Progesteron) einen Körper formen.
Ugh, ich habe vergessen, wie man zu viele Wörten auf Deutsch sagen.
It's possible that the standard prescribed HRT medications differ from those in other countries. However, as long as you take an estrogen with an anti-androgen, it will be effective over time. It won't make you magically super pretty, but it is remarkably effective at feminizing your appearance.
Hugs,
- Katie
I odn't know about Germany, but I know that in Uk they use a different anti androgen that doesn't work as good as spiro, or at least that's what a girl from there told me, so yeah... Also I think y'all don't use progesterone.... However many girls here don't use progesterone as well... I don't use it for example.
The most german transwoman takes progesteron (still since years here). Personally i take progesterone for 2 years, but it has no effect to me - what should it do???
In germany the most get estradiol-gel for medication, a few get pills. Injections are only available through other countries - its difficult to get it, the most doctors dont offer this methode. I think 80-90% use gel in low dosages. I tried it over the years and nearly nobody use high dosages. Most doctors want a "save medication". I guess most of them dont focus a good feminization but a save medication.
For myself i take weekly injections now (it was hard work to get it from my doctor), progesteron daily, a bit CPA(androcur) and finasteride for my hair. Should there be any changes? Its the same like pills or gel to me. Maybe our german genes are so bad - and marked masculine for the whole life. In germany the age of 30 means - better dont do it, if you focus good results and a body feminization. It had a breast augmentation 3 month ago - it had 7cm (around 3 inch) of breast after 2 years ...
I talk much to other (also older) transwomen here and for the most HRT is only a thing from the doctor - something written on paper. They take 3-4 years estradiol and dont pass - everybody can see their "trans" ... people like me - over 30 and have a acceptable face-passing are very rare. Bodypassing (breast, fat distribution, ...) has nearly no transwoman, including me.
Hey there,
I'm German and the trans group I go to easily consists of 90% women. Many of them started hrt later in life, but I'd say a lot of them pass and have clearly feminized. That's a very isolated observation, of course.
But my impression is also that at least in my group FFS is a lot less common.
How is the name of the group ... ? I checked around 4-5 forums and 4-5 facebook groups.
I'm most of the time at facebook groups and there only a few women really (really) pass. FFS is refused in mostly cases.
I only know one forum are focused on good results, also with FFS.
P.S. And of course, males have always another opinion. :P
Quote from: Mermaid on February 08, 2015, 07:11:13 PM
Hands down the most passable transsexuals are in Thailand though, if it looks to be good to be true, then you know it wasn't born a girl =P
I've heard this many, many times before...not only from MTF tourists but also from cis male and female tourists.
And not only having seen thai MTF in bars, clubs, 'resorts' etc, but also in daily life in the streets, working as shopassistants etc.
So, whenever I hear this 'they look so feminine, you just can't tell they're MTF' I always reply with: 'If that's so, you would have seen ciswomen, most certainly not MTF.....'
I've been to thailand for an extended period a couple of times, and I could always tell who's MTF and who's not...not only from their looks but most of them behave completely different from thai ciswomen. I didn't need to hear their (gruff) voices, I already knew beforehand.
As for the USA: I've been to CA and NYC a couple of times for extended periods too. Same story. I (and others) read MTF almost instantly because of their overall bodysizes, the way they move OR their waaaaaaaaaaayyyy overdone 'FFS' faces.
I have to admit I took some ciswomen for MTF because of their surgically overdone faces too btw.
Grass is always greener on the other side, for sure, but I wonder if you've seen pics and vids of American MTF WITHOUT or WITH other cispeople?
A pic of a MTF posing next to a ciswoman makes it instantly clear who's who because of the sizes of their heads, shoulders, trunk etc.
For some reason USA MTF are besotted with having cheekimplants, which is also a dead give away. It not only makes one's face too big but also harsh.
Or it makes facial features look like thrown off balance.
All the above draws unwanted attention etc.just like over augmented lips and breasts.
And ehm, I guess you've heard about photoshop?
And last, but not least: the FFS faces can look great on pics, but seeing some FFS faces animated on video's makes you almost instantly wonder about their wooden faces, having trouble speaking, restricted smiles, having trouble with regular facial expressions etc.
Better stick to yourself and don't let pics and vids lead you on ;-)
P.s: taking hormones has a slight feminising effect, but it all depends on how the persoon looks from the beginning. Very masculine looking? Don't expect too much from using estrogen.
Quote from: galaxy on February 09, 2015, 08:01:00 AM
P.S. And of course, males have always another opinion. [emoji14]
Uhm, lol. Maybe.
The group is called Gendertreff. They are active in North-Rhine Westphalia.
Quote from: Dahlia on February 09, 2015, 10:46:21 AM
I've heard this many, many times before...not only from MTF tourists but also from cis male and female tourists.
And not only having seen thai MTF in bars, clubs, 'resorts' etc, but also in daily life in the streets, working as shopassistants etc.
So, whenever I hear this 'they look so feminine, you just can't tell they're MTF' I always reply with: 'If that's so, you would have seen ciswomen, most certainly not MTF.....'
I've been to thailand for an extended period a couple of times, and I could always tell who's MTF and who's not...not only from their looks but most of them behave completely different from thai ciswomen. I didn't need to hear their (gruff) voices, I already knew beforehand.
As for the USA: I've been to CA and NYC a couple of times for extended periods too. Same story. I (and others) read MTF almost instantly because of their overall bodysizes, the way they move OR their waaaaaaaaaaayyyy overdone 'FFS' faces.
I have to admit I took some ciswomen for MTF because of their surgically overdone faces too btw.
Grass is always greener on the other side, for sure, but I wonder if you've seen pics and vids of American MTF WITHOUT or WITH other cispeople?
A pic of a MTF posing next to a ciswoman makes it instantly clear who's who because of the sizes of their heads, shoulders, trunk etc.
For some reason USA MTF are besotted with having cheekimplants, which is also a dead give away. It not only makes one's face too big but also harsh.
Or it makes facial features look like thrown off balance.
All the above draws unwanted attention etc.just like over augmented lips and breasts.
And ehm, I guess you've heard about photoshop?
And last, but not least: the FFS faces can look great on pics, but seeing some FFS faces animated on video's makes you almost instantly wonder about their wooden faces, having trouble speaking, restricted smiles, having trouble with regular facial expressions etc.
Better stick to yourself and don't let pics and vids lead you on ;-)
P.s: taking hormones has a slight feminising effect, but it all depends on how the persoon looks from the beginning. Very masculine looking? Don't expect too much from using estrogen.
I would soooo much love to see your photo. After FFS, more than before. Am I too wishful ?
Quote from: Dahlia on February 09, 2015, 10:46:21 AM
P.s: taking hormones has a slight feminising effect, but it all depends on how the persoon looks from the beginning. Very masculine looking? Don't expect too much from using estrogen.
Taking hormones
CAN have effects - but these are all options. Doctors, other transgender or info-sites want to make us believe that taking hormones
WILL have effects. Thats absolutely wrong. It all
CAN only. I know people taking hormones since 5 years and have no effects.
Quote from: galaxy on February 09, 2015, 02:35:17 PM
Taking hormones CAN have effects - but these are all options. Doctors, other transgender or info-sites want to make us believe that taking hormones WILL have effects. Thats absolutely wrong. It all CAN only. I know people taking hormones since 5 years and have no effects.
That's not actually possible, from a medical perspective. I don't claim to have had great results from hormones, but I can't claim I've had none.
Quote from: kelly_aus on February 09, 2015, 03:37:33 PM
That's not actually possible, from a medical perspective. I don't claim to have had great results from hormones, but I can't claim I've had none.
I thought so too always. In my case the only region where the hormones have effects is the face. Not so much, but a bit - i can see it. All other regions didnt changed over the last 2 years. I know a lot people have similar experience. They got an B-cup and have no other effects - the face looks like before - the whole opposite of mine. I also know people hat absoluty no benefit from taking hormones. Before man - after 2 years man. So HRT is only a option - no "tool" on the way.
And for sure: Testosteron
will work. Estrogens
could work.
Quote from: mmmmm on February 09, 2015, 01:58:35 PM
I would soooo much love to see your photo. After FFS, more than before. Am I too wishful ?
Yes, because I never post pics online for reasons you can guess...
Hi, Galaxy!
This is just an assumption of mine, based on what I've read on here and other TG forums, for more than five years now as an active participant, since I started HRT. BTW I don't live in either the US or Germany at the moment, but I used to live in the US years ago. I am a Caucasian myself.
My assumption is this:
The US' most successful (confident and passable that is) MTF women are the ones that usually populate forums like these regularly, with comments, answers to questions, etc. The other women don't post so frequently. But they exist as well. You just don't hear about them as much.
Now, this is my personal view, again, based on having read these forums for years an years, thus learning a lot:
MANY of the US trans women with great physical results, who started after their puberty was over, are so successful because they were born intersex. If you are not familiar with this term, please just go to Wikipedia.org and type intersex, or do a Google search with any of these phrases "intersex individuals" "intersex people" or anything similar.
Every single time I read about somebody mentioning a great breast size for a trans woman, such as anything above a B cup without being overweight or having breast implants, or somebody having a natural soft-looking face and a great hip to shoulder ratio, smaller bone structure including hands and feet, actually having small breasts already etc. BEFORE EVEN STARTING HRT, it invariably leads to this particular person being an intersex individual of any variation, but most of these women don't mention their condition on every post they make, until maybe a friend of theirs mentions it in another response "hey girl, you should mention that you were born intersex, so others may know why you've had such great results from your HRT".
As I've said before, this is just an educated assumption. I am pretty sure I wasn't born intersex myself, so I am struggling in the "passing" department, even after 5 1/2 years on HRT, incuding orchi and t-shave the 15th month after I started HRT. But I was also a bodybuilder my whole puberty, because of harassment and bullying issues in school and gender confusion. Big mistake, guilty as charged, but I was so ignorant and lacking information at the time, and my family and social environment were an extremely conservative and closed-minded religion-driven burden for me, with a 100% macho-oriented mentality, so I had to conform or perish, at the time.
Now, why are there so many intersex individuals in the US going for transitioning as females? Simply because there's loads of information available in the US in this day and age, tons of resources, institutions both governmental and private, to support any people pursuing their dream of gender identity correction and a happier existence in the correct gender. So people who are intersex, with gender dysphoria issues, learn that, second to those individuals starting HRT at the onset of puberty, they are actually the best possible candidates for transition, passability-wise.
Just my opinion on this. I hope this could give you some insight. Still, through extensive HRT emphasizing estradiol, one can have great results even if not being born intersex. In my particular case, I look very different from how I did before starting HRT. My skin, overall, is soft and nice-looking and I don't do any special thing for it other than a mild exfoliation when I shower. I've lost like 90% of my overall body hair except armpits, pubic area and a bit on the knees and scattered everywhere else. I look way less T-shaped in my body frame, closing in to an hourglass shape, but of course my hips are nowhere as nice-looking as those of a well-developed cis woman. I don't have big breasts, but they have a nice shape even though I have a very big rib cage as a result of my past bodybuilding, which messed up my upper body for good. My facial muscles have softened noticeably. So there's lots of nice stuff coming from HRT even if one wasn't lucky to be born intersex, but one has to be optimistic and patient, HRT results go on for our entire lives, I've read of people who still see positive feminization changes even after 20+ years on HRT!!!
I hope all this was a bit insightful and thanks for reading it!
Cheers
Bibi B.
Why do Americans have better results?
I have a theory.
It is because we don't live in Germany. I look better from Germany than I do close up. You see, I get to choose the pictures you see of me. I am not a three dimensional figure you met at the store. I am represented by an avatar.
Quote from: Dahlia on February 09, 2015, 10:46:21 AM
I've heard this many, many times before...not only from MTF tourists but also from cis male and female tourists.
And not only having seen thai MTF in bars, clubs, 'resorts' etc, but also in daily life in the streets, working as shopassistants etc.
So, whenever I hear this 'they look so feminine, you just can't tell they're MTF' I always reply with: 'If that's so, you would have seen ciswomen, most certainly not MTF.....'
I've been to thailand for an extended period a couple of times, and I could always tell who's MTF and who's not...not only from their looks but most of them behave completely different from thai ciswomen. I didn't need to hear their (gruff) voices, I already knew beforehand.
As for the USA: I've been to CA and NYC a couple of times for extended periods too. Same story. I (and others) read MTF almost instantly because of their overall bodysizes, the way they move OR their waaaaaaaaaaayyyy overdone 'FFS' faces.
I have to admit I took some ciswomen for MTF because of their surgically overdone faces too btw.
Grass is always greener on the other side, for sure, but I wonder if you've seen pics and vids of American MTF WITHOUT or WITH other cispeople?
A pic of a MTF posing next to a ciswoman makes it instantly clear who's who because of the sizes of their heads, shoulders, trunk etc.
For some reason USA MTF are besotted with having cheekimplants, which is also a dead give away. It not only makes one's face too big but also harsh.
Or it makes facial features look like thrown off balance.
All the above draws unwanted attention etc.just like over augmented lips and breasts.
And ehm, I guess you've heard about photoshop?
And last, but not least: the FFS faces can look great on pics, but seeing some FFS faces animated on video's makes you almost instantly wonder about their wooden faces, having trouble speaking, restricted smiles, having trouble with regular facial expressions etc.
Better stick to yourself and don't let pics and vids lead you on ;-)
P.s: taking hormones has a slight feminising effect, but it all depends on how the persoon looks from the beginning. Very masculine looking? Don't expect too much from using estrogen.
How about not characterizing those of us who have undergone FFS in such a way? There are people who go overboard with surgery, but it is not a transgender thing. There's a huge difference between body dysmorphia and gender dysphoria, and I'm tired of people who assume they are the same. I'm trans, and yet I know that surgery won't fix everything in me, that's what therapy is for.
Take it as a case by case basis when it comes to the individual and how effective transitioning can be. You'd be massively surprised how many transpeople are living in stealth. In reality, we all have the same DNA, and the sexually dimorphic traits that humans develop aren't nearly as severe as you believe. It's why we have primary and secondary sex characteristics, primary being usually evident except for those with Kleinfelders' or who are intersex. Secondary sex characteristics vary wildly, and although they are harder to hide than your sex organs, they are by no means definitive.
If your doctor believes you are a good candidate for transitioning, then listen to him or her and ignore negativity from strangers on a forum. Transitioning takes patience and dedication and hope and sometimes luck. Also make sure to do your research so you know what you are doing to and putting in your body. And remember that transitioning is for making your exterior match how you feel. It won't magically make you one of the sexiest women alive. Good luck and stay positive!
Sent from Katie's iPad using Tapatalk
It sounds like maybe a very conservative HRT regimen?
It may also be that women are more likely to post photos to the internet if they think they're pretty, so most of the foreign women you've seen posting are self-selecting for confidence and perceived attractiveness... or maybe American women are just more egotistical. ;)
I will say this - when I went to support groups, the women most likely to turn up there were early in transition and not very passable, whereas the ones I meet online *who posted public pictures* tended to be later in transition and looked cis. I've also known far more of the latter than the former, just because the internet spans the globe versus in-person support groups.
(I have, however, also run into plenty of non-intersex trans women who've gotten great results. Might just be my luck, I guess.)
Quote from: bibilinda on February 09, 2015, 05:23:15 PM
MANY of the US trans women with great physical results, who started after their puberty was over, are so successful because they were born intersex. ... Every single time I read about somebody mentioning a great breast size for a trans woman, such as anything above a B cup without being overweight or having breast implants, or somebody having a natural soft-looking face and a great hip to shoulder ratio, smaller bone structure including hands and feet, actually having already small breasts etc. BEFORE EVEN STARTING HRT, it invariably leads to this person being an intersex individual of any variation, but most of these women don't mention their condition on every post they make, until maybe a friend of theirs mentions it in another response "hey girl, you should mention that you were born intersex, so others know why you have such great results from your HRT"...Now, why are there so many intersex individuals in the US going for transitioning as females?
If you're talking about MTF trans folk aged over 40, a big part of the reason has to be DES. Like a lot of medicine-related things, it was used more extensively in the US than anywhere else in the world.
In her book "DES Voices: from Anger to Action", DES mother and author Pat Cody estimates that DES was used in 4.8 million pregnancies within the US, most of which resulted in a live birth (I've been told that it was used in an approximately equal number of pregnancies in countries outside the US too, although exact figures aren't available).
In short, there's over 2 million US-born male assigned DES babies out there somewhere.
If you look at some of the stuff I've posted recently in this thread:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=84224.100
You'll see that I've obtained copies of three follow up studies involving a group of people (the "Dieckmann cohort"), who originally participated in a study carried out in the 1950s, which revealed that DES was worthless as a treatment for preventing miscarriages (that didn't stop the FDA from promoting it for a further 20 years though!).
One striking difference emerged between the sons of the women given DES and the unexposed controls: the "DES sons" produced, on average, only about half as much sperm as the control group. My reasoning is that if sperm production was halved, then production of that other thing the testicles make - testosterone - was probably halved too. That would explain why I, along with probably the majority of DES "sons" I've chatted to, have a type of body structure that 's commonly associated with intersex conditions, and other signs of having had below normal male testosterone levels all our lives.
Unfortunately, in the hormone tests they did in those 3 papers, they've left out 2 key measurements (estradiol and SHBG), which means you can't tell whether testosterone production in the DES sons group was lower, but I think if those results had been included it would have shown T production about half normal male, and E2 and SHBG probably about double what you normally get in a man (in other words, hormone levels partway between a man's and a woman's).
As you can see from some of the other stuff I've posted in that thread, the entire medical establishment seem to be running in full damage limitation mode when it comes to DES (which isn't surprising, considering what the likely public reaction would be, if word got out that they've inadvertently caused several million people to be born who are biologically male, but partly developed as female instead of male). What few studies have been carried out since 1980 appear to have had the express aim of downplaying the effects as far as possible.
In those 3 studies on the Dieckmann cohort, the participants were in their early 20s. No one's done any equivalent studies of us now we're in our 40s or older, but, based on my experiences and what I've heard others say, a lot of us start to develop health problems caused by chronic low testosterone once we hit our 40s (which I think could be the underlying factor that leads to a lot of late transitioners finally taking the plunge).
Having had lifelong below normal male T levels does undoubtedly make it a lot easier to pass as a woman post-transition, since, for starters, our bodily proportions are often more like a woman's than a man's (and it probably affects other things like how strongly our bodies respond to female hormones too).
Quote from: Serena ♡ on February 09, 2015, 04:26:01 AM
I odn't know about Germany, but I know that in Uk they use a different anti androgen that doesn't work as good as spiro, or at least that's what a girl from there told me, so yeah... Also I think y'all don't use progesterone.... However many girls here don't use progesterone as well... I don't use it for example.
Just to clarify.
The anti androgen more commonly used in the UK is cyproterone acetate, opposite of what you were told, it's actually much more potent and effective at blocking T compared to spiro, it isn't available in the US as it isn't FDA approved due to rare (but possible) side effects that include liver problems. spiro is also available in the UK, as are potent shots originally developed to treat hormone dependent cancers that completely halt the production of T, these are only available for girls who have expressed a want for GRS and have no interest in using their pre-op genitals for pleasure and only available if accepted into the NHS GIC pathways.
Also in regards to the original Post.
Unless there is a clear difference to the HRT regimen in Germany, I highly doubt that your observations are an accurate description of what is actually going on. As other girls say, Americans as a whole are more open about their transition and before and after results , where as Europeans tend to be a lot more reserved, and I imagine that makes for a lot more stealth stealth cases in Germany.
Also, I have a very hard time believing you have seen no results from your HRT regimen unless it really is a very low dose estrogen or a low potency t-blocker being prescribed? Apart from that, there is only one thing that I have always noticed when I have met German people and that is Germans tend to have very strong facial features, but they seem to be in dis females too and just seems an ethnic thing.
I really do think your perception isn't very accurate hun.
Hugs!! Xx
Hey there ;)
I am German, and after my coming out and doing my research first in place I had a similar perception on German Trans Women compared with Trans Women especially from the US.
But soon enough I came to realize that this was just a misconception due to lopsided perspective. Like others mentioned here before, the US girls are in average far more confident about their outsome, they are more outgoing and confident about their transitioning. The mindset is right and positive framed. I learned that they are doing more on their transitioning instead of just relying on the wonders of Estrogen to come. How to dress, finding your own style also in mannerism comes off at a very early stage there.
What if you are doubtful and hesitant about your transition, how can you expect a perfect, neatless outcome? And it´s almost exclusively the pretty/ passable ones in the US who get their transition timeline uploaded on YouTube or elsewhere and show off their miraculous transformation, encouraging others in following their footsteps and for passing their positivity down to the ones at the very beginning of their transition. This reinforces overall confidence. Sadly, Germans are way more reluctant in showing oneself off in this way. It´s a matter of mentality, I guess.
But one must not forget that what also counts in is the critical mass, or the phenomenon of the big number. Out of a population of approximately 300 mn people in the US, there´s a significantly greater pool of Transgender people in absolute numbers and out of this pool you have a certain percentage of absolutely passable outcomes and therefore a higher possibility in meeting beautiful, or passable, or cis-like ones you can hold up as idols to the rest of the group. Germany has a population of about 80 mn, inherently the pool of Transgender people is smaller in the same proportion, i.e. the percentage and equally the absolute number of positive outcomes is smaller also. Combined with the German reluctance in showing off, the misperception seems perfect.
Also the ethnical/ genetic background can interfere. The average German/ northern European male tends to be more masculine in shape, being taller, chin more squared out, brow ridges more prominent, shoulders broader and so on, combined with a still patriarchal conception of masculinity. You will also find in German/ nothern European cis-women way more masculine traits as in southern European, not to mention Asian women. Just look at Heidi Klum´s squared chin. If you were AMAB and got through the "normal" male puberty, even the HRT regardless of age can not reverse the sceletal structures shaped by Testosterone in the male puberty. That makes it harder to transition. Also this counts in and diminishes the possibility of good outcomes, as long as other measurements are not taken up, e.g. FFS. The same goes for clothing and make-up. If you don´t know how to dress, to accentuate your positive bodily traits and hiding or playing down the negative ones, for sure the negative ones gets the eye catcher. I mean, look at how much time and energy even cis girls are spending on clothing and make-up. If you look like a Viking, don´t think about becoming Germany´s Next Topmodel. And this is also a matter of self-reflection, to me it makes no sense to swap the one Dysphoria with the other and mental suffering still resumes.
Estrogen can do wonders if the basis is right, i.e. you have a delicate body shape, a soft lined face and other more feminine-connoted traits you can rely on, once HRT comes into effect. If you dress in an appropriate way and style so that your clothing supports your character and the make-up softens and shapes your face decently and does not let you look like if you´re wearing war paint, then I guess not too much can go wrong.
I dont looking for any advices for myself. I'm living stealth. I'm not attractive but i living as a "real" woman in most cases. I cant go swimming or doing other activities with a naked body - but all ordinary things are fine.
My question goes more in a generally direction and yes, i guess its because of more masculine feature of germans and our "bad" HRT-regime. Most doctors want a save HRT, not a effective HRT. My own HRT wasnt save to anytime - i never focused it, i ever focused good results. On the other hand youve to accept that results depend a lot on your genes ... you can have luck or even not.
Quote from: Serena ♡ on February 09, 2015, 04:26:01 AM
I odn't know about Germany, but I know that in Uk they use a different anti androgen that doesn't work as good as spiro, or at least that's what a girl from there told me, so yeah... Also I think y'all don't use progesterone.... However many girls here don't use progesterone as well... I don't use it for example.
Speaking as a resident of the Sceptred Isle I would have to say that I am on that anti androgen and I don't recognise that statement. Gosrelin Acetate (brand name Zoladex) will disarm those little T factories far, far better than Spiro ever will. It was developed as an inhibitor of hormone sensitive cancers and stops the gonads dead.
Rosie
Spiro is really quite weak, the only reason it's used over cyproterone acetate or other blockers is it's prevalence in the US due to other blockers not being FDA approved and Spiro having been around for a very long time.
You might have heard the motto "First do no harm", this is the rule doctors use and they will proscribe what ever they think is safest, the last thing they want is for you to have complications and them to explain that they gave what the medical community considers a healthy person a drug which is not approved for the purpose it was proscribed for.
Cypro plus Estradiol seems to do the trick for me, in fact my Cypro was halved to the point where there is no tablet that's small enough so I have to break them in half.
Quote from: RosieD on February 10, 2015, 05:28:03 PM
Speaking as a resident of the Sceptred Isle I would have to say that I am on that anti androgen and I don't recognise that statement. Gosrelin Acetate (brand name Zoladex) will disarm those little T factories far, far better than Spiro ever will. It was developed as an inhibitor of hormone sensitive cancers and stops the gonads dead.
Rosie
Again, I really don't know, that's just something a British woman once told me LOL
Yeah, sorry. I posted without reading the rest of the thread. If I had I would have kept quiet, apologies if my message came across as knocking you over the head with the same information. Again. It wasn't meant that way.
Rosie
Quote from: RosieD on February 11, 2015, 07:34:22 AM
Yeah, sorry. I posted without reading the rest of the thread. If I had I would have kept quiet, apologies if my message came across as knocking you over the head with the same information. Again. It wasn't meant that way.
Rosie
I don't think you came across that way Rosie, and no worries Serena, I think we just wanted to clarify, it's kind of not right that the British woman you spoke to would share that kind of info without informing herself first, we do know lol, that's all sweetie x