(Edited to add a TRIGGER WARNING that this topic does stray into talk of self harm.)
I shouldn't still be struggling with this issue after so long, but it's started to bother me once again. As someone who was a late arrival to the transgender party (although I knew something was amiss from an earlyish age), I'm not entirely convinced that I have to be a girl, and perhaps I merely want to be a girl. Were it something I have to be – something so fundamental to my very existence – surely this path would have been stumbled upon far earlier in life? But instead, I find myself looking back and seeing someone who so badly wanted to be a girl, but who knew deep down that he was a boy. In other words, I don't see myself as a "girl trapped in a boy's body", but perhaps more of a "boy who would much rather be a girl."
Does it matter? Well, on a practical level, apparently not at the moment; things are progressing fairly rapidly, and the transition is keeping me busy and engaged. But later in life, when the electrolysis has been completed, hair grown out, the boobs and curves no longer a source of interest, the therapy and FFS and GRS just memories, and the legalities and social issues worked through, I'm concerned that I'll sit back and realize that this was all a long, expensive journey I volunteered for but didn't have to take, rather than a journey that I couldn't live without having taken. And that my justification for transition might make the destination a far less attractive place to be without that fundamental belief that I was born a girl, instead of just wanting to be one. I worry I'll get to the finish line (if such a thing exists) and say, "Enjoyed the ride, but now what?", instead of sitting back and finally feeling a huge sense of relief that something deep within me has been fixed.
Thoughts on this? Is there really much of a difference between having to transition and wanting to transition? Just semantics, or a sign of a need for increased caution in the pace at which I move forward?
Or a sign that I should just take my estradiol and spiro and stop overthinking things?
well, I one of the ones that knew since very early on where I truly belonged , so I don't know, you just need to take a day at a time and if GRS is approaching that's when you really need to figure out what you want because that's pretty much totally nonreversible .
For me it's an eventual have to. It's eating me up that I can't go quicker but have to live with the cards that have been dealt. Plus my current living situation also hinders things. I'm making progress and have a relatively good group of people around me. Just have to take things one step at a time.
There might be a difference.
Not everyone has dysphoria to the point of being suicidal. But those who do need to transition in my opinion. The others could probably survive without it. Either way though I don't think there will be regret. I mean there may be a few who regret but if transition is carefully considered I don't think there will be regret.
Ive had this same issue as of late. I've asked myself if it was a real "need basis" I guess things would be easier if i just let it go, but i remember that really i would never be able to really do that. I am looking to get my first hair removal appointment in the next few weeks. I am also starting to look into voice therapy and these things that i need to take care of if i am going to to successfully transition.
Do i need to transition? Maybe not....but this is something that has been in my head my entire life and will never go away...
I'm actually on the other side of the very same fence. I feel pretty much exactly like you do.. however, I'm currently not on HRT and living 98% male mode. I have almost started transitioning countless times in the past 6 years, and I've 'wanted' to be a girl for as long as I can remember, since my early teens at the very least. But I'm not suicidal, and I'm not convinced I ever will be, even if I have to live the rest of my life male.
And so I haven't transitioned. Even though the issue is eating me up weekly, and possibly causing me to be introverted and depressed. Should I have transitioned ages ago? Should I transition now? Probably, but I honestly don't know. If it was a matter of going down to the clinic and asking for hormones, I definitely would have. But it's not that easy (in my country anyway), and so I hesitate.. because I too have doubts. I want to be female, with every fiber of my being. But I don't think I need to be female.
And I really don't know if that distinction is important or not.
This has been my struggle since I was a very young child. I always thought I have to be more. I'm supposed to be a boy, I can't be drawn into other things.....I've gone through wife and kids, done my duty but still, keep being drawn to the other side and the more I explore it the more I see.... the more I feel...the at peace I am with it. That's why I need to be at least trying to explore that side, and now that I've actually given in, started hrt around christmas, I feel peace inside, pure panic socially as i am not out yet, but peace in my soul, maybe that says everything I need. As changes begin i will be tested. Im wondering if ill pass that test.
It's not like I wanted to be female nor did I particularly want to transition.
I AM female and it finally got to where I HAD to either transition, go crazy, or continure drinking myself to death.
Actually, adding to my last post, clearly I do feel like it's an important distinction, since I am fighting it. I'm just not sure if I'm right to lol :)
However much I might feel like I don't belong as a male, and think I would find peace of mind if I was female.. I'm not sure if that would be the case. And then I look at all these other people who are so sure, to the point of ending their lives.....
Quote from: ImagineKate on February 10, 2015, 08:31:57 PM
There might be a difference.
Not everyone has dysphoria to the point of being suicidal. But those who do need to transition in my opinion. The others could probably survive without it. Either way though I don't think there will be regret. I mean there may be a few who regret but if transition is carefully considered I don't think there will be regret.
I feel that if there is any doubt whatsoever, SRS should not be considered. There used to be a member on this site that went through with SRS when she had doubt, and she was consumed with regret.
Quote from: missymay on February 10, 2015, 10:49:46 PM
I feel that if there is any doubt whatsoever, SRS should not be considered. There used to be a member on this site that went through with SRS when she had doubt, and she was consumed with regret.
True. Gatekeeping is good in that regard. However this conflicts with my inner beliefs that humans should be truly free to decide. That said WPATH standards are a good safeguard. Sure some may slip through but the majority who are cleared for SRS are happy. I have a ways to go so I'm taking it one day at a time. I will say this though. SRS was optional for me at one point but now as I get deeper into transition it is something I truly am considering very seriously. The need to be complete is basically it'.
I echo the sentiments here around need vs want. Does it mean I have a 'minor' form of GID because I don't feel so bad that I hurt myself? It's mostly been a matter of, "can't do anything about it". At least that was a major defense for me. I've fought this since forever. In fact when I started therapy I asked the therapist if there was any reasonable cure (aversion therapy is NOT reasonable). As everybody already knows though, when you got it, you got it. Welcome to the sisterhood. I want this but it's beyond inconvenient in what it does to your life and loved ones.
The thing is, when I just let myself be "me" and I step out ... I'm happier than I have ever been. It's a lot like I have been holding a huge weight and when I stop doing that it just feels good. I mean it feels good in a way that I can't remember ever feeling. I can't ever go back to before even if I still live most of my days as a mostly male. I need to do that much to keep my marriage going. For me it's simple math. I lose more if I lose my wife than I gain if I go all the way over to full girl. Love is a funny thing.
Still, that distinction between need and want gets me. My doubts are largely centered around the damage I would do to my loved ones and family if I go all the way. My doc says that it doesn't mean I don't have GID but rather it means that I am considerate of others (she's sweet and knows I like a compliment) I like that spin on it but I worry some because I'm currently able to walk the line and don't HAVE to change or die trying. Does that make me not trans? I don't think so but yea... it makes me worry.
Anyhow, I mostly wanted to raise my hand and say, "Me too!" and explain a little of what I feel.
if i didnt need to i wouldnt be here.
The question of 'need' only makes sense to me in a life or death context. What is need? Do I need my legs? Well, technically, no.
For some people it is transition or death. In that case, yes, I think you must transition. You owe it to yourself to at least try to survive.
Is that the only experience that is valid? Absolutely not. Everyone should act according to what makes them happy. If it makes you happy to transition, do it!
For me its the prospect of having to reinvent yourself. HRT wouldn't be enough; SRS wouldn't be enough; for me it has to be the complete package or I feel like I wouldn't be happy.
Not to sound vane, but I have an attractive male physique and face (albeit it needs work due to 2 divorces and 4 children, lol). Replacing that with an equally attractive female version, to me, will be difficult. Going from turbo masculine alpha (I'm living a lie that I've built for over 15 years as a way to hide how I really feel) to girly girl southern bell won't happen over night and its depressing and makes me seriously question things.
At the end of the day, as another poster stated, once you're in it you're in it. To me that means once that thought creeps into your consciousness and you begin acting on it by making changes there is no going back. Something I've always taken stock in is, "never second guess yourself."
Sorry for the rant. There are people out there that live quite happily with one foot in, one foot out; HRT with no surgery of any kind is always an option.
I definitely think there is a difference between want and need. I've always known I am a woman but was always perceived to be a man. I got tired of this situation at a very young age but never knew what I could do about it and when I did find out what options I had in later life I was scared out of taking those options by how I believed I would be treated. Eventually the fear of mis treatment was allot less than my upset at being seen as something I wasn't. I've never considered even for a split second doing myself harm because I knew there was an alternative even if that scared me. My desire to live is allot stronger than my fear of mistreatment and no matter how bad it gets my determination to succeed is allot stronger than anybody else's determination to stop me :)
I can understand people who have doubts not transitioning and I think they're right. Unless you go somewhere that you are unknown in having a trial transition full time is something you'll never be able to disassociate yourself from so unless you are at the stage of needing to instead of wanting to see if it works my advice would always be don't do it until you are certain you need to. I considered transition twice in the past and was told for differing reasons it wouldn't be a good idea. Once a doctor replied to my comment "I think I'm a woman" with "well if you only think you're a woman you should stick to cross dressing and have some fun with that" The 2nd time it was a well known Gender Psychiatrist in UK who told me " You're transgendered but as you have a wife and family as well as a stable job and you won't make a particularly attractive woman my advice is that you don't do anything about it" When I couldn't take anymore of this being seen as male, I told my family doctor "I'm a woman and I want everyone else to see that" Nearly 10 years later I'm there and pass ok mostly and am weeks away from SRS.
If you can find a reason to stay your birth gender that you can live with then I'd say it's want not need but that doesn't mean you're not trans just that you should give careful thought about transitioning :)
I'm not trying to upset anybody or make out like I'm a super shrink, I just suffered allot to get here and if something i say stops someone suffering then I'll take that as a success :)
Hugs
Sorcha ;D
Interesting thread Brenda, love it
I fully agree there is a difference, its subtle, because the wants and needs can blur and become the same.
I have known I have been a female in a male body for 50 odd years. Because for a massive proportion of those years I could not become what I knew I should have been and wanted to be; I managed it and tried to be wholly male, inside it was eating me up... but it was managed. Could it still be managed; possibly, but I want to transition, I need to transition because I do not want to die unfulfilled...
Need is driven by something; a burning desire, a condition, forced to do something, timeline in a series of events to meet a final point... Want is an; I wish, have a choice but want it, seek the unattainable... I experience both and juggled these in the past.
Most of us want to become a woman/female/girl, some of us also have certain needs too; if I don't I'll destroy myself... often the want drives the needs e.g. I want to be female, to do that I need to do etc...
Over the last 20 years the drive to become female has become almost obsessive over the last few years, so I went on HRT just over 10 years ago (slow process at my age), am I ready to fulfil my desires, nearly there from being able to look who I am, I do need to still do some feminizing things... but above all I need to come out. The latter has now become almost 90% consuming of my thought processes... So I want to and I need to... there are alternatives... I have to qualify these too based on level of inflicted pain on those that are closest to me.
So I have always wanted to, I knew at some point that I needed too... Its here!
For those that want to but have doubts, do need help... but having said that only you know who you are and want you want. So you need to determine either now or live a life of wanting to!
By the way Sorcha your therapists seem to have been blunt or flippant.... early on
GRS/SRS are of course a matter of choice, Gender ID on state documents are a must, unless you are lucky enough to have been given a unisex or female name, else you will always be the target of others and if you travel a lot you could end up in an unfriendly country where tolerance is just not there...
Just the thoughts of a person with 90% of her mind somewhere else ;)
L Katy :-*
Quote from: missymay on February 10, 2015, 10:49:46 PM
I feel that if there is any doubt whatsoever, SRS should not be considered. There used to be a member on this site that went through with SRS when she had doubt, and she was consumed with regret.
I've read stories and stats that suggest there are some who regret the surgery. I cannot imagine it, thinking the the whole process and all and the surgery, only to regret it. Is it a case of misdiagnosing the dysphoria?
I have asked myself the same question a lot lately. I always get back to the conclusion that I am moving forward in the right direction because I feel so much better, physically mentally and emotionally and that it would be foolish to deny myself. I have known who I truly am since a young age but built a huge persona of denial.I am finally at place where I'm OK being me and I have no intentions of going back
"I have asked myself the same question a lot lately. I always get back to the conclusion that I am moving forward in the right direction because I feel so much better, physically mentally and emotionally and that it would be foolish to deny myself. I have known who I truly am since a young age but built a huge persona of denial.I am finally at place where I'm OK being me and I have no intentions of going back"
I feel the exact same.
if i could click my fingers and be a normal 32yr old woman right now i would. am i willing to put up with the (really not that bad) hassle to get there. yes. time flies. its surprisingly fun. life feels worth living. i feel whole for the first time. i dont want live another day knowing i couldve but i didnt.
its a project, itll take years, but it feels fantastic to finally be doing it. im so glad im doing it. its fun as hell btw.
meanwhile life goes on, only no scary secret or forbidden desires to obsess over and make me stressed and depressed. i need to transition and i want to transition, but as it takes a while, might as well get on with it and enjoy the ride!
xxx
Quote from: katrinaw on February 11, 2015, 03:00:37 AM
By the way Sorcha your therapists seem to have been blunt or flippant.... early on
The first one to try putting me off was my family doctor, I honestly believe she thought she was being humorous. Like I was someone to make fun of :o On the 2nd occasion I decided to seek help from a fairly well known Gender Psychiatrist in London. I even paid him close to a weeks wages to be told I'm trans but it's not worth perusing :o :o
I'm a pest, I don't easily take no for an answer if I believe myself to be right ;D ;D ;D ;D
Hugs
Sorcha ;D
I want to shift that "need/want" line a bit. Rather than actual suicide consider:
The death of joy.
The death of hope.
Endless gray days when nothing pleases, and...
An attitude that makes other people miserable.
I don't talk about this much but I contemplate suicide frequently, sometimes for days at a time. I haven't made an attempt since I was about six years old. (No one ever knew about it.)
The life I was living wasn't truly living. At my last PCP appointment my doctor told me that he had never seen me happier. This despite the fact that I've been unemployed for 3 and 1/2 months, I have no good prospects, my unemployment insurance has never been approved and my resources will be exhausted in a month. This despite the tremendous strain just being trans, (not the doing something about it), has put on my marriage.
I've always been one to just keep on trying, knowing it has to get better. That's especially difficult now, but I'll never commit suicide...
until I do.
I only "wanted" to transition - I wasn't desperate or suicidal, though it might have gotten to that point. I made a choice that I thought would make me happier, and it did. :) I also wondered if that meant I was "really trans" or "deserved" to transition, but seeing as I had GRS and do NOT regret it, I'm inclined to say it was a strong enough want to be worth following through on even if it wasn't a life-or-death need. Plus, as this thread shows, people draw that line in different places. Ultimately, my opinion is that if you're happier and more content with what you're doing, go for it, and don't worry about how you measure up against some mythical set of Trans Rules.
(I actually also found the "must have zero doubts or don't do surgery" advice to be harmful, because I've never *not* doubted myself in my life! However, I was able to declare that I had no more doubts or fears than I did about any other major life decision I ended up being grateful for, if that made sense; I was never going to get to zero, but I also had only the average level of concern compared to how I felt about, say, switching careers.)
As has been pointing out the concept of need vs. want is very subjective.
In my mind the difference is the presence of negative consequences if something is not done, for example:
I needed to brake because otherwise I would have collided with the car in front of me.
I wanted to accelerate because it allowed me to get there faster.
In this sense I needed to transition, not because the only alternative was death but because the consequences of not transitioning and going for GRS/SRS outweighed the consequences of doing it.
My advise to people is generally do as little as you feel comfortable with, if you can live a happy life 90% of the time in the body you were born with then that might be a better option.
In my case I could have gone on with my life until I died from old age but as far as being happy, lets just say I smiled so rarely that everyone thought it looked fake due to the muscles in my face not having enough exercise.
Be smart, evaluate the pro's and con's of each path and find the path that makes you happy (and those around you by extension).
definitely a lot of "what is the other option". personally, I'm definitely not suicidal, its something i would never allow myself to do, not that the thought hasn't crossed my mind from time to time. but what is the other option besides transitioning? if it means spending the rest of my life being miserable with my self and hateful towards who and what i am. that, and what if you don't transition, then the feeling get worse over time till the time comes that there no longer is an option of continuing as what you were assigned at birth, then you could have an even harder time.
i wish that id looked into being able to transition back when the feeling first started getting vocal in my life a few years ago, rather than waiting till now getting more and more miserable each passing month.
while you want to know for sure, and be certain that this is the right decision for you. putting it off for longer than necessary more likely than not, will just make things worse.
From what it sounds like want vs need seems to be largely affected by levels of dysforia. This is all on a continuum and as most things are, if you are on an extreme side its pretty clear something is up, but if you're someone in the middle things start to get much more fuzzy. Moderate dysporia may not have that apparent -need- but that doesn't mean the desire is any less real or important. No way of knowing what is the right path, but if you're capable of doing so and you want to, I don't see why not.
My own experience: I certainly didn't NEED to transition. I never felt like a woman in a man's body (still don't feel like a woman after SRS and a year and a half fulltime). But I've always wanted to be a woman in the worst way. I'm really glad I transitioned and equally glad I got SRS. Hope this helps.
Some interesting responses. Thanks all.
I'm going to add a
TRIGGER WARNING this post. I'll also edit the initial post to add one, seeing as we're drifting into talk of self harm.
Quote from: spooky on February 11, 2015, 01:15:33 AMEveryone should act according to what makes them happy. If it makes you happy to transition, do it!
This is probably the core of what I'm trying to explain. I'm far
happier as female, but I'm not sure I was
born female. But again, does the distinction matter other than in an academic sense? (And is there any distinction at all? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding my own feelings about this, and was indeed born female but just don't realize it?)
Quote from: katrinaw on February 11, 2015, 03:00:37 AMMost of us want to become a woman/female/girl, some of us also have certain needs too; if I don't I'll destroy myself.
This is also a key point. I was clearly destroying myself and everything around me by hiding this deep desire to become a girl. That's no way to live, and I realize that now (most of the time - I still have my moments.) And while suicide is a very quick means to put an end to one's misery (and also destroy the lives of everyone around), is there really much of a difference between the instant damage of suicide and the cumulative damage and hurt caused by a miserable life lived in the shadow of drug and alcohol abuse, depression, self-hatred that causes constant worry and sadness from everyone who cares, at the end of which is nothing but regret from all that a life was needlessly wasted? In essence, is a meaningless life lived unhealthily and unhappily just a long, drawn-out suicide?
(The point to the latter paragraph being that I wonder whether many of us actually realize that although we're not "suicidal" in the traditional sense, it doesn't mean we're not causing as much physical and emotional damage to ourselves and those around us in the long run through the usual consequences of long-term unfulfilled desires to live in another gender.)
Quote from: Dee Walker on February 11, 2015, 07:46:23 AM
I want to shift that "need/want" line a bit. Rather than actual suicide consider:
The death of joy.
The death of hope.
Endless gray days when nothing pleases, and...
An attitude that makes other people miserable.
I don't talk about this much but I contemplate suicide frequently, sometimes for days at a time. I haven't made an attempt since I was about six years old. (No one ever knew about it.)
The life I was living wasn't truly living. At my last PCP appointment my doctor told me that he had never seen me happier. This despite the fact that I've been unemployed for 3 and 1/2 months, I have no good prospects, my unemployment insurance has never been approved and my resources will be exhausted in a month. This despite the tremendous strain just being trans, (not the doing something about it), has put on my marriage.
I've always been one to just keep on trying, knowing it has to get better. That's especially difficult now, but I'll never commit suicide...
until I do.
I sure had a few attempts, all unsuccessful of course.
But more than that is the sheer unhappiness with life. Going to bed every night wishing I was something I did not look like at all. Looking at my daughters and thinking that they are so lucky to be born in the female gender then getting depressed that it's not me. Letting myself go, being lazy.
Now? I'm happier than ever, despite the ups and downs. People notice it. I am no longer depressed, in pain, constantly stressed. I have taken full charge of my health and well being. Not for nothing, the fact that I visit the doctor for hormones and checkups regarding HRT regularly ensures that I go and that they look after me. When I set up the HRT appointment they insisted on being my primary care, and now I realize it's for very good reason. I have lost weight and for the first time in almost 15 years I am close to not be overweight or obese. That feels great!
I'm think I'm a little confused by your question. What are your reasons to want to be a woman, I've known I've been wrong since very early on and I've felt the conflict sexually, socially and in my day to day encounters with my environment. I've just was born wrong. Sexually I'm attracted to both men and women. I fantasize being with men only as a woman. I'm not afraid anymore to admit I need complete surrender to a man as a woman totally. Sexually I enjoy both men and women, but mentally I'm female. HRT has shown me my true self. I don't know how far physically the process will take me at this point in my life because of my age, but really the only reason I'm still breathing is because of HRT.
This is one reason why I hate the "standard trans narrative" that EVERYONE was born this way, knew since birth, would rather die than not transition, etc.
I believe I sincerely was a cis guy, once, and was quite content being one. I wasn't born female; I was born a boy. I just... grew out of it? One day I realized that didn't fit anymore and hadn't for a while, and I changed my presentation [and eventually my body] to match. So I'm serious when I say I wanted to transition but wasn't sure if I was really trans. Yet here I am, happily living as a woman years later.
The thing is, since I've started telling this story, I've met other trans people like me, too. Not everyone knew since they were a teenager at the latest, and not everybody *can* fit into one simplified story, even if that's what cis people and the media prefer.
The strange thing is that there's this insistence about a lot of major life choices, when the truth is not every marriage lasts forever, not ever career is perfect forever, etc. *even when they were good and satisfying choices for a time.* The absolute worst case here is that you live joyously as a woman for some period of time and then decide even though it worked for you then, it doesn't now, and you change again until you're happy. It's OK. :) That's what I've told myself, too, and while I still can't imagine NOT being thrilled by this new life, if that day comes in 15 or 20 or 50 years, it won't negate how I feel now or how right this decision was.
Quote from: stephaniec on February 11, 2015, 10:59:39 AMWhat are your reasons to want to be a woman . . .
For me, I think it's simply just because I want to be one. I wasn't one in the past. I was a guy. I don't enjoy being male (and never have), and would strongly prefer to be female. The steps I've taken so far - therapy, HRT, coming out to various people, clothing, extremely minor cosmetic surgery, electrolysis - all seem right and make me happier.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on February 11, 2015, 11:25:25 AM(Everything Jenna Marie said above.)
Wow. I absolutely, completely agree. And I get exactly where you're coming from. Thank you! :)
Brenda : Glad to help. :) I basically said what I wished someone had told me back then, because a lot of what *you've* said sounded so familiar...
Quote from: stephaniec on February 11, 2015, 10:59:39 AM
What are your reasons to want to be a woman
Isn't that the confounding thing about being trans, though?
I knew I wanted to be a woman but I had no clue why. That's what being trans does to us, right? Our brains tell us we need to be a certain gender, but we can't justify it logically. We can't give reasons, we just KNOW.
Quote from: suzifrommd on February 11, 2015, 12:08:30 PM
Isn't that the confounding thing about being trans, though?
I knew I wanted to be a woman but I had no clue why. That's what being trans does to us, right? Our brains tell us we need to be a certain gender, but we can't justify it logically. We can't give reasons, we just KNOW.
the question though was between knowing and wanting and trying to figure out the difference. I think if everyone just went by there gut feeling of just knowing there wouldn't be so much dilemma . What are the reasons for wanting . You can ask yourself that if it bothers you as far as doing what's right for yourself. Is it just sexual, is it your cultural fit , is it the way you want to be seen. is it the way you want to dress and interact with people. If your troubled by what your doing or just having questions about how you feel , there's absolutely nothing wrong with trying to analyze the situation for the greater benefit of yourself. I prefer wearing dresses , its not the only reason , but it's one of them. I don't know why I much rather have a beautiful dress on then a stuffy suite , I haven't the slightest idea , but its one of my reasons, which to me adds to my own validation for wanting to transition. I want to be seen sexually as a woman in a woman's body with feminine facial features , another reason ,which is only valid for myself in my decision to transition. I like crossing my legs in a dress while sitting, a minor consideration , but valid to me.. there are all sorts of reasons to transition, everyone is different and each as valid as the other , but they are reasons for you yourself to want to express with in society the fact that your female rather than male. There is absolutely nothing wrong with however you need or want to express yourself and there's is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning or trying to find the reason for the way you want or need to express yourself, it's all part of finding the most beneficial path to achieve the maximum amount of happiness in the short time we have on this planet.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on February 11, 2015, 11:25:25 AM
This is one reason why I hate the "standard trans narrative" that EVERYONE was born this way, knew since birth, would rather die than not transition, etc.
I believe I sincerely was a cis guy, once, and was quite content being one. I wasn't born female; I was born a boy. I just... grew out of it? One day I realized that didn't fit anymore and hadn't for a while, and I changed my presentation [and eventually my body] to match. So I'm serious when I say I wanted to transition but wasn't sure if I was really trans. Yet here I am, happily living as a woman years later.
The thing is, since I've started telling this story, I've met other trans people like me, too. Not everyone knew since they were a teenager at the latest, and not everybody *can* fit into one simplified story, even if that's what cis people and the media prefer.
The strange thing is that there's this insistence about a lot of major life choices, when the truth is not every marriage lasts forever, not ever career is perfect forever, etc. *even when they were good and satisfying choices for a time.* The absolute worst case here is that you live joyously as a woman for some period of time and then decide even though it worked for you then, it doesn't now, and you change again until you're happy. It's OK. :) That's what I've told myself, too, and while I still can't imagine NOT being thrilled by this new life, if that day comes in 15 or 20 or 50 years, it won't negate how I feel now or how right this decision was.
I don't think the "standard trans narrative" applies to everyone at all, and it is acknowledged that people can and do change.
But many of us do experience gender variance and gender dysphoria from childhood. I know personally this has been with me for as long as I know myself. I did not just wake up one day and decide I want to be a woman. Instead, I was more or less at a breaking point where the desire to become one overwhelmed everything else.
But, as you said, some people may be different.
Kate : I thought I'd made it clear, but in case I didn't - there's a million possible stories and they're all valid, including the standard narrative of knowing since childhood. :) In fact, it presumably became the typical narrative because it was both common and comprehensible. The only problem sets in when someone like me, or perhaps Brenda or Suzi, can't find any suggestion there that it's equally OK to be/feel the way we are.
It's really weird, because some people (not you!) seem to get super defensive and assume that by claiming my own life history is true, I'm invalidating theirs... when that's the last thing I want. I think we're ALL real, all valid, and all deserving of the lives we want and/or need to live. Even if I did "just wake up one day and decide to be a woman," and it honestly kind of felt that way at the time, I'm just as deserving of happiness as anyone else.
Plenty of people show up every time to say that they fit the standard, and I believe all of them; I just want room in the overall story for people (perhaps outliers) like me too. (My wife has the same issue with the standard narrative being that almost every marriage breaks up, although the statistics suggest that in that case it isn't actually true of an overwhelming majority [about 50% survive].)
I don't usually share this, but . . . .
I always felt the trans*ness and I do not remember any time in my life that it wasn't there. Add to that, I was one of those people who never quite passed as male. I was taunted and beaten up in junior high and high school and accused of being really a girl or being ftm. Even as an adult, I continually heard that I must be gay because I seemed very female or simply that "there's something very female about you that I can't put my finger on." I learned to be somewhat good at filtering every gesture I made, but not at learning male body language. I got good at most of the time filtering out the girly stuff from my conversations, but still had women do things like stop me and say "wait. . . I wanna know why you can do girltalk."
At one point, I learned that my body produced only tiny amounts of testosterone. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was something like maybe 10% of what I was supposed to have. Whatever the number was, it was only a bit higher than what a ciswoman normally has. So I started taking T. And I found that it made me incredibly edgy. I simply could not tolerate getting up to a level above what a 90 year old man would have without freaking out and going totally bonkers. And this may be why E affects me so profoundly and so quickly--or at least that's what my doctor thinks.
I had a girlfriend who never could understand why sex with her never interested me. And she used to always express amazement that I had basically all female friends, some of whom were quite beautiful, but there was obviously nothing going on there either. And she used to speculate about the possibility that I was trans*.
I quit the T because I just couldn't handled its mental effects anymore. Later on, my girlfriend and I broke up for unrelated reasons. I relaxed for a while. Then I started thinking about what would come next. And I noticed that I had let her get close to me and she could see the trans*ness. And I decided that I basically had a choice--make peace with that part of myself, or keep hiding it and never let anyone be close to me again.
I have never had a crossdresser phase. For me that would have been as silly as trying to resolve my gender identity conflict by Going fishing. Crossdressing simply had nothing to do with my issues because my issues have nothing to do with clothes. And I did not embark on it wanting to transition either. In fact, I wanted not to. But it became pretty clear that transitioning was the only option for me to make that peace. And the more I really looked at the issue and inside of myself, the more obvious that became. So . . . here I am. Rather reluctantly, but I must admit it does seem to work for me.
I'm much better at being a woman than I ever was at being a guy. And the role and the life and everything else fit me much better too.
I guess I actually went from being a "don't want to" to being a "need to." Don't know where that really puts me in terms of typical stories or atypical ones. As a matter of fact, the only thing I know is that I am especially hoping I will not get a +1 for this post. But that's the story for me. Minus many details, of course.
It was somewhat similar for me, but different, I got ridiculed for being different , but I was built pretty good so I fought back and got left alone. I was an extreme cross dresser from age 4 , but I think mentally I was trying to compensate for lack of estrogen although I was never tested for that as far as I know , but the realization for me about cross dressing came much latter when I realize that wasn't helping solve my situation at all. Estrogen was and is the only solution for me. I desired it at an everyday intensity all my life , but for a variety of reasons I never was able to do it. I would of found peace so long ago if I would of been shown the path, but whatever , I'm happy now.
I can't really offer much advice on this subject since in my case it was an eventual necessity but for others reading, maybe my experience will help in some way.
When I was around 15 I discovered that I could transition but I told myself I didn't need to for whatever reason. I don't remember why exactly. What I didn't realize at the time was that all of the problems I had were due to my dysphoria. So when I was actually honest with myself, I ended up deciding to transition at around 20 years old. I think a big factor as to why I started transition was that during that time I lost a lot of my friends and didn't have anymore distractions. I was really unhappy with myself and I couldn't deny any longer what I needed to do.
So basically transition became a necessity but for me it didn't start that way initially. I thought I would of been able to bury "my want to transition" when in reality it was what I needed. I was really ignorant of my own identity just because I didn't want to face the truth.
Even growing up, I was constantly called out on my feminine social and physical behavior. Boys would say "you're such a girl" and I was accepted into the girl circles as being one of them. Being in denial and stubborn is a powerful combo lol
Hmm, you can prolly count me in with the merely wanting to crowd as well. I was pretty down and depressed, depressed for most of my life I'd say, basically a loser with no real close ties to anyone. I got to a point where I did have some suicidal thoughts occasionally but never attempted it. Can't say that I ever felt it was transition or die, it may have been, or may have come to that, but I don't think it was.
Now, as far as I know, I too was born a guy. I really can't remember much tho at a young age. I don't remember ever thinking I was a girl, I could've, I certainly was quite strange I think, for a boy, but ya, as far as I know, I was a boy. I could've thought I was a girl, maybe my parents found out and I repressed it, idk, I'll never know, since they have both passed. Growing up I played sports, loved to play em in fact, that was my life, that and video games, pretty boyish type activities.
I do remember wishing I was like my mom though, or that I was actually her, at quite a young age. I would dress in her things whenever I could safely do so in private. Somehow, I knew it was "wrong" of me to do so, idk why or how, but I knew it, so ya, doing it w/e I could in private was the only option I had. I don't know if it was cuz they found out and yelled or had a talk with me, caught me doing it, can't say, wish I could. I think I used to go to bed wishing I was a girl, maybe even praying for it, not certain but sounds possible, tho could've been influenced by reading it from others as well.
Puberty came and I wasn't thrilled with it, to say the least. Didn't wanna be big and strong like my other friends did, didn't want facial hair, didn't want any of it. It was around this time that things progressed to the next level for me. We stopped playing sports mostly, I mean once in awhile we would but my friends had other things start to occur and interfere, life, girls, work, school. I had more time alone now since wasn't playing sports, and since I was older now, had more freedom from parents. As a result, started dressing and acquiring more things.
Thats the moral of my story anyway, things kept progressing for me, kept going forward, and now here I am. I never stopped doing it, never purged, only got rid of stuff to make room for more stuff. I never asked myself why I was doing this, these things, it was just in me to do em so I did. It got to the point where I did wanna go out dressed as a girl, went so far as to take a vacation far away with that as my sole purpose. When I got there, realized I was fake, looked like a dude in dress, I'd never be seen as a girl, just a weirdo, and I realized that wouldn't work for me at all. When I got back, looked for ways to change that, found out about herbals, started doing them. Shortly after that, found this place, started reading up all the posts that I could, was shocked when I realized it was actually a possibility for me.
I didn't really fit the standard trans narrative tho, and it caused issues for me. Made me wonder if it was fetish or real, if I was just imagining this or hoping it was real, if it is the reason or part of the reason that I have been basically pretty miserable my whole life.
Reading posts from people like Suzi definitely helped me out a ton! It definitely helped me realize that just because I didn't know I was a girl in a guys body doesn't mean I am not trans. There is no such thing as "trans enough". Everyone is different; everyone's story is different. I realized that I do not have to prove to anyone that I am trans or not, that this is the right thing for me; as long as I think it is right for me, as long as it makes me happy, then that's all the matters!
Now, this is just my opinion, but, just as there is a transgender spectrum, I think there is one here as well, between having to transition and wanting to transition. One end of the spectrum, being assigned male or female when you yourself believe yourself to be the opposite, don't normally appear to be able to get why someone would choose to transition, when it may not be do or die type thing, why anyone would want it, I, considering myself at the middle or possibly other end of the spectrum, can't possibly imagine thinking that I was female at a young age, with a male body. I just can't comprehend that at all; doesn't compute for me. It's just something that I never really felt, experienced, therefore, cannot really ever understand it completely.
In the end, does it really matter where you lie on any spectrum? Does it matter if you agree, disagree w/ me or anyone else's choices? Really, all the matters is your own personal happiness. That is the goal, the point of all this, that everyone wants to be happy, and that we are all doing this to accomplish that goal. If transitioning makes you happy, or makes you think that you will be happier from doing it, then I can't help but think that it is the right choice for you.
It depends on how you define your needs and expectations for yourself.
I didn't need to transition to live.
I needed to transition to stop being suicidal.
I chose to get help, and to tell the people I needed in my life about it. The longer I spent in my male form the more uncomfortable I got. It got so bad I thought of my body as a husk I wanted to discard. But to transition, I had to accept my flawed body in order to modify it to my needs. I know where going back takes me. It's a dark and terrible place and it frightens me.
Everyone is different, but I also hate the phrase, "girl trapped in a boy's body." I'm not going to set aside all of the masculine traits I have, not that there are all that many. I just want to let myself truly come to the surface, and interact with the world without a façades. If there were an intermediate between femme and butch, I'd probably be most comfortable as that. I'm not spending all this money and time and aggravation to let other people define mean again.
Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from Katie's iPad using Tapatalk
I'm one of the ones who knew at a very early age, but I don't fit the typical narrative in any other way. I was never suicidal, I grew up in a stable home, and was never beaten up for being ultra feminine as a kid. The "transition or death" narrative actually had me convinced for a lot of years that I wasn't really trans. I'm just not that dramatic about anything in life.
The other part of the narrative that I really resent is the idea that everyone you've ever known or loved will reject you, and transitioning is an almost certain death for all marriages. Well, I know now that it just isn't true. There is a risk of rejection, but preparing trans-questioning people to face 100% rejection is a bit heavy-handed if you ask me.
So because I thought I wasn't really trans, I settled into the guy role and just lived with a deep disappointment at not having been born a girl. But even after I knew that transition was even a thing, I always had good reasons not to pursue it. And my natural optimism and pragmatism kept the dysphoria pushed down.
But at one point in my mid-30's I realized two things that changed everything for me. First, I realized that the vast majority of people don't wish they were the other gender. In fact, most are glad they're not. So that means I actually am transgender. The second realization is that a lot of marriages do survive transition, and my wife actually might get on board with this.
At that point my excuses disappeared, and I knew that I was the only one standing in my way. That's when the dysphoria hit hard, and it didn't get better until I started low dose HRT about a year later.
So I'm certainly in the wanting this category. With the low dose of estrogen, I could probably live like this for a long time if the consequences of transitioning were higher. But they're not. And so this process is really about having something I've always wanted, and something that would make me finally happy and hopeful for the future.
Quote from: katiej on February 11, 2015, 09:15:32 PM
I'm one of the ones who knew at a very early age, but I don't fit the typical narrative in any other way. I was never suicidal, I grew up in a stable home, and was never beaten up for being ultra feminine as a kid. The "transition or death" narrative actually had me convinced for a lot of years that I wasn't really trans. I'm just not that dramatic about anything in life.
The transition or death narrative did not fit me either. But it probably does now. I have thought about going back because of how high the consequences have been for me. I don't try to go back because I fully expect I'd be dead in a year or two.
Quote from: Brenda E on February 10, 2015, 07:45:40 PM
(Edited to add a TRIGGER WARNING that this topic does stray into talk of self harm.)
I shouldn't still be struggling with this issue after so long, but it's started to bother me once again. As someone who was a late arrival to the transgender party (although I knew something was amiss from an earlyish age), I'm not entirely convinced that I have to be a girl, and perhaps I merely want to be a girl. Were it something I have to be – something so fundamental to my very existence – surely this path would have been stumbled upon far earlier in life? But instead, I find myself looking back and seeing someone who so badly wanted to be a girl, but who knew deep down that he was a boy. In other words, I don't see myself as a "girl trapped in a boy's body", but perhaps more of a "boy who would much rather be a girl."
Do I have to?
Do I need to?
Do I just Want to?
Would I just like to?
Questions I wrestle with most days. I've been on this path of Healing, Self-Discovery, or "Taking on the Trans-Beast" for nearly 6 years now. I've known/felt since the age of 5 or so I wish I was born a girl. Tried twice in my 20's to do so. Opting both times to "Settle" on being a normal-ish male.
I feel/know I am blessed that I am NOT a member of the Transition or Die club. I cannot imagine the pain my fellow support group members must be in. During a recent meeting a member told me I was her hero, because I have been able to "Manage" my dysphoria w/o having to resort to a full transition. But there have been days....
For over 5 years now I've been healing. I am, for the first time ever, happy being in my own skin. Pretty much happy being be. A total first. I still live as a male. Most of the time now, it's OK. Never the less, I don't feel 100% genuine, perhaps 90%-95%. Not bad.
THe bad days... I have the perfect stretch of road in mind. Vaporize my car at 90MPH or more into a concrete wall. Fortunately they are very few now
Should I take the chance of exploding my life for that extra maybe 10%? Loose my wife, maybe? My totally fun career, maybe? Followed by financial ruin? All for what? Life aint that bad. I achieved my life long dream of being seen as and accepted as a woman. What's left? A chance to finally feel 100% genuine, 100% of the time. Maybe. If I loose what is near and dear to me, I also loose a good part of that 90%.
Which pain is worse? Today it is loosing it all. Tomorrow... all that may not matter. I take each day as it comes.
for me the road came to an end , I did my best to live male and I did it a long time , but it caught up to me and grabbed me and took me down. So here I am exploring this new road and doing good.
The last time I asked myself if I needed or only wanted to transition, it resulted in my total purge of my feminine clothes. I decided the grass wasn't greener being female, and in fact life would be down right hard. This time, though I've changed. I've realized it's not transition or die as in kill-my-self. It's more like transition or living as male will kill my soul, kill my spirit, I'll be one of the walking dead. Being male means I have to kill my female spirit, she can't breath stuffed in that closet. There's no self harm, it's more a figurative and emotional harm. When I started down this path again for the second time, I realized that for me to be me to my fullest, I need to transition. I need to be who I am, and I am female: counter to what the doctor told my parents all those years ago.
-Alana
I'm all over the place on this one. There are days where I feel it's something I absolutely HAVE to do in order to go on, but then there are days where I'm completely okay with the idea of just living as a crossdresser. And there are even other days where I wish I could sit somewhere in between male and female, maybe as a "girl with a secret", so to speak. And still other days where I wish I was just a shapeshifter, and could change based on my mood. I definitely identify as female, there's no doubt there, but I'm just not sure how to go about life just yet.
Katie : As usual, I agree with everything you said, too. :) Especially the bit about not everyone wants to be other gender; I assumed that too!
And I try to counter the "it's always, inevitably doom and suffering" narrative as well (like you, I am aware that it sometimes is true, but not *always*).
Quote from: Alana_Jane on February 12, 2015, 12:26:37 AM
I've realized it's not transition or die as in kill myself. It's more like transition or living as male will kill my soul, kill my spirit, I'll be one of the walking dead. Being male means I have to kill my female spirit, she can't breath stuffed in that closet. There's no self harm, it's more a figurative and emotional harm. When I started down this path again for the second time, I realized that for me to be me to my fullest, I need to transition. I need to be who I am, and I am female: counter to what the doctor told my parents all those years ago.
Alana, this is a really great way to articulate what I'm going through right now. Very little is gained in life from taking the easy choices. It's certainly safer, but I do understand that I'll never really be happy with myself, as you describe, if I don't make the big leap.
Six months ago there were moments when I absolutely
needed to transition, but then I started a low dose of HRT and my state of mind normalized. The cloud lifted and now I feel like I can make a clear-headed decision. The problem is that because I feel better now, there doesn't seem to be the same urgency. But I understand that dysphoria doesn't get better with time. And knowing that my current stability is estrogen-dependent reminds me that I really do need this.
So I suppose our discussion may not really be about
need vs. want but about different shades of
need. Or perhaps, it's about the different levels of urgency in that need.
I knew something was different from a young age. But cultural conditioning, lack of access to information, and then time to unlearn falsehoods about gender and sexuality caused me not to even realize I was "transgender" until I was about 45 or 46. I almost self-harmed multiple times (genital mutilation). I always wanted to be female. My dysphoria nearly drove me to suicide three separate times (twice as a teenager and then finally in 2012 when I hit the end of my rope). But I never connected the dots. I didn't even realize that those who had "sex change" operations were trans. It just never assembled for me into a coherent whole until later in life.
Here's something rather important to understand - young transgender children whose parents simply accept them as they express themselves have been proven to be as certain of their own gender identity as cisgender children.
However, negative family conditioning and negative cultural conditioning results in adults who constantly question. What do I see there? I see questioning as an outgrowth of falsehoods, lies, and cultural demands placed upon us throughout our lives. It is vital that we shake off what our culture expects and then, having shaken it off, we can finally ask ourselves who we are, with clarity. Having done this, the answer is always clear to me - I am a woman, regardless of what equipment I was born with.
I cannot answer Brenda's original question. In fact, I doubt any of us can. Only Brenda can ultimately answer that question.
Six years ago when I decided to take on this beast for real, I realized just how much I have died inside. As the months passed it became far far worse. I had slowly devolved into a nearly total lifeless, soulless "Thing" that woke up each morning, went to work, ate dinner, repeat. Because "That is what I had to do", the expectations for me set by a lifetime of 'wanting' to be male. Each passing year needing to be even more regimented, controlling of every aspect of that persona in order to maintain it's viability.
For me, "Transition" is simply "To Change". I am changing. I have changed, greatly. I still live and mainly present as male. That may change someday. Today, I do not need to, for which I consider myself fortunate. I am even more fortunate for having changed, for the transition I have completed
I just find it amazing... how sad and absolutely devastating it can be for so many people to go through all of this... To get to this point, to invoke changes and all the feelings they have. You are all very strong people just to admit that to yourself. I have many moments of doubt, but I need to figure out what to do next. Because my feeljngs wont just go away. Ive tried burying, religion, alcohol, workaholic, just ignoring it. Its like an addiction. But its a calling inside.
I saw a nice comment the other day, forgive me ive forgotten who said it but the effect was ; all the shame and denial and fear and people being mad at one and anger and hurt and financial implications to do with being transgender were the bad part. but the being trans was no more than the truth.
i think step 1 has to be cut ALL the shame guilt and fear away. its the stuff that tears you in one direction while the need to transition pulls in the other.
it seems 100% certain the need will never go away. resisting it hurts a lot. the logic of what to do next is simple. the logistics, well thats another matter.
before i came out i felt like this process would feel like a prison. but actually now i look back at that time a the prison. it was a good decade and half of dread and despair like a life sentence. im so glad its over. this is the long walk up and out. the way out is tough and takes a long time, but it beats being locked up. im free. im on an adventure.
im going to do it and/or die trying!!
"I headed her out to sea, knowing where I was going but not real certain how to get there. I'd be sailing through Shadow and strange waters, but it would be better than the overland route, what with my handiwork abroad in the realm.
I had set sail for a land near as sparkling as Amber itself, an almost immortal place, a place that did not really exist, not any longer. It was a place which had vanished into Chaos ages ago, but of which a Shadow must somewhere survive. All I had to do was find it, recognize it, and make it mine once again, as it had been in days long gone by. Then, with my own forces to back me up, I would do another thing Amber had never known. I didn't know how yet, but I promised myself that guns would blaze within the immortal city on the day of my return.
As I sailed into Shadow, a white bird of my desire came and sat upon my right shoulder. and I wrote a note and tied It to its leg and sent It on Its way. The note said, "I am coming," and it was signed by me.
I would never rest until I held vengeance and the throne within my hand, and good night sweet prince to anybody who stood between me and these things.
The sun hung low on my left and the winds bellied the sails and propelled me onward. I cursed once and then laughed.
I was free and I was running. but I had made it this far. I now had the chance I'd wanted all along.
A black bird of my desire came and sat on my left shoulder, and I wrote a note and tied it to its leg and sent it off into the west.
It said, "Eric-I'lI be back," and it was signed: "Corwin, Lord of Amber."
A demon wind propelled me east of the sun. "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruSIKXqz33g#t=21438