You may have read my other posts but anyway....has anyone of you found it easier for a "gradual" come out over the years? By this I mean over the course of one's self acceptance.
I've technically come out like 10 years ago to my mother (I still live with them), but back then we tried to "fix it". There had been more "coming outs" over the last years but I never really told her (or knew) what I want. [Haven't talked yet directly to my father about what I really want - I find it awfully difficult (we have talked about how I felt, but it was back then when I thought I could forget these feelings)]
I dropped hints (towards my mother) now and then that I didn't know what I would do in the future but not in a sense that "I'm really serious about it - considering transition"
As things are going I find it increasingly difficult to go back into the closet as I feel I'm really in touch with my female persona - to the point I feel I'm pretending when I'm talking with my male voice. So, today I kind of told her there are things I can't tell her because they would hurt too much, she asked me "You mean you want to have a sex change?" and I kinda nodded (couldn't have said it that directly years ago or even months ago). She still said I'm not effeminate at all and quite masculine...
Later she told me that whenever I feel like it she ready to talk with me...so we'll see... (I believe she passed the point of denial)
(*a couple of months before the first therapist appointment (which was about a week ago) when I tried talking to her about the issue she told me I've told her the same things over and over and then got angry)
Wish me luck...
Hi Kelly
You must of course do things at the speed which is comfortable to you. From what you have written, it sounds like your mother is perfectly ready to deal with the issues, perhaps more ready than you are?
I guess it boils down to what you want to do with your life, and if you have a gender journey, how long do you want this journey to take? Personally, I wanted to get from boy to girl in the shortest time possible, and once I'd made my mind up to transition it moved very fast indeed.
As I said, only you can set the speed of any coming out and subsequent transition. But I do see some people who are permanently "stuck in transition" for a variety of reasons, some within their control and some sometimes outside of their control. If your mother is perhaps getting frustrated with you, as your last paragraph explains, perhaps she's wanting you to DO SOMETHING rather than permanently rehash things.
I would ask you why you feel the need for what you descibe as a gradual process? What does "gradual" mean, and how long do you truly want to take?
Regards
Julia
Ok, so, here is the deal
-I don't know if my mother has told my dad the last things I told her but nevermind that (If she has it'll be a huge blow to him)
-I'm halfway through my PhD and unfortunately still financially dependent on them (at the moment that is)
-one reason she shouted is that at the moment I wasn't seeing any therapist (was still searching)
-still not like 100% sure (technically sometimes I feel I am, other times not so much)
-the "first time" I came out (about 10 years ago as I wrote above) I feel that if I had gone to a different therapist I could have started transition then (at a point back then before the first therapist sessions and the drugs he gave me I was pretty sure I wanted to transition)
-It's true that I'm quite masculine and if I transition it'll be very difficult to pass
-I kept thinking and trying of ways to integrate my feelings without doing something drastic to my body. To the point it hasn't really worked.
-I know in a vague sense that I want it, but past years I hadn't thought of it as actually probable. I was/ still am scared. Way less than few years ago though.
I really don't know how long I want the transition to last. If it were possible I would have it done yesterday but that's just wishful thinking. If I start I'll have to do ALOT of lasers etc beforehand (I'm Greek so you can imagine)
*I haven't come out to other people but they may have guessed something (longish nails for example). Apart from that I present as a guy.
*2 perhaps you are right about doing SOMETHING as in "Do. Or do not. There is no try" (Yoda). I know I need to get out my "safe zone" and deal with all this.
That's about it. Hope it made sense.
Hi Kelly
The Jedi Master said a lot of wise things :D Here are some replies for you:
-I don't know if my mother has told my dad the last things I told her but nevermind that (If she has it'll be a huge blow to him) Yeah, it can be a shock, but it's your life, and we only get one of them, so happiness is the key. Your parents will certainly want your to be happy, but they would also want you to be certain.
-I'm halfway through my PhD and unfortunately still financially dependent on them (at the moment that is)OK, understood. This does not preclude you starting HRT and letting it "run in the background".
-one reason she shouted is that at the moment I wasn't seeing any therapist (was still searching)
-still not like 100% sure (technically sometimes I feel I am, other times not so much) OK, this is enormously relevant. Somehow you need to try separating this into categories so that you can understand clearly what makes you feel trans as well as what makes you feel not trans. May I suggest the following exercise, and do it on paper/spreadsheet: create two main columns - "Life Not Transitioning" and "Life Transitioning". Under each of these put down all the pros and cons you can think of. Some pros won't have a corresponding con. Then try to prioritise them with an importance weighting, where this must be personal to you. Also try to identify ones you can control versus those which are out of your control (your height, for example)
-the "first time" I came out (about 10 years ago as I wrote above) I feel that if I had gone to a different therapist I could have started transition then (at a point back then before the first therapist sessions and the drugs he gave me I was pretty sure I wanted to transition) Maybe. Maybe not. There are plenty people here who could have transitioned many years before they did, but have needed to choose the timing for a number of good and valid reasons - for example I waited 20 years. But it's important on a trans journey not to spend energy on regret for time lost, as nothing good will come of it.
-It's true that I'm quite masculine and if I transition it'll be very difficult to pass Yes, but things can change. And even then, you'll find many girls on this site who have transitioned and are quite clear that they do not pass. Many of them are extremely strong mentally, and just don't give a damn about passing. For them it's the fact that thy are living their internal woman, and doing it as honestly and publicly as they can. There are also girls here who are obsessed with passing. To be honest, passing is often a case of attitude over anatomy, and you'll find stories galore here about this. (I am sure there is a Star Wars quote we could find about this :D) . As for being quite masculine, both the physical and behavioural aspects can be modified to a greater or lesser extent. It's a question of believing!
-I kept thinking and trying of ways to integrate my feelings without doing something drastic to my body. To the point it hasn't really worked. Enormously important statement. Do you consider any type of halfway house which might work for you or do you want your body do be female in as many aspects as possible?
-I know in a vague sense that I want it, but past years I hadn't thought of it as actually probable. I was/ still am scared. Way less than few years ago though. Many of us go through this type of gradual evolution. One of my goals on this site is to try help people crystalise their thoughts faster, to confront and understand their fears, and to create a realistic forward-looking plan.
I really don't know how long I want the transition to last. If it were possible I would have it done yesterday but that's just wishful thinking. If I start I'll have to do ALOT of lasers etc beforehand (I'm Greek so you can imagine) Yes, your genetic ancestry is not the greatest help, but nor is it your greatest obstacle. Once you're on HRT body hair often thins out and also reacts well and rapidly to laser. Facial hair may also react well to laser. You just don't know. But this is honestly something you can start doing now. If you don't like being hairy, well, fix it! I started laser well before I started HRT. As for other typically Greek facial features, these can be fixed to some extent with FFS. The point I'm making is that if you really want this you can achieve it. But you need to really really want it: it's long, expensive and painful.
*I haven't come out to other people but they may have guessed something (longish nails for example). Apart from that I present as a guy. There's nothing wrong with an androgynous appearance if it makes you feel better. You may be pleasantly surprised by how people react if you did come out to them. My friends backed me 100%.
*2 perhaps you are right about doing SOMETHING as in "Do. Or do not. There is no try" (Yoda). I know I need to get out my "safe zone" and deal with all this. I guess it's a question of personality, and there's no right or wrong way. I tend to confront issues and demons directly, to understand and then to deal with them. Other people have different coping mechanisms which are equallly valid. Well, maybe not equally valid - some are plainly inferior in terms of outcome, but personality rules everything.
All I will say, Kelly, is that you should try not to waste the precious years of your life. If now's not the right time to transition, take a different path and make a massive success of the boy who already exists. Maybe later you will be ready to take the decision, and then you will have the same opportunity, but as a girl, to make a success of part two as Kelly. There are obviously pros and cons to this, and here I will briefly share my experience:
I knew when I was 25, but saw my masculine face and body as huge obstacles. I was also terrified about social rejection. I started a couple of companies, got married to a girl, had a reasonably successful life, but always needed to fill my time with "stuff" so as to avoid thinking about my sexuality and gender. Four years ago I got divorced, but this was only very peripherally related to my gender. I then tried fitting into the gay community as a possible halfway house that would allow me to be fem, but it was clear after a few years that my mind is female, not gay. With my last boyfriend I realised that I wanted the relationship, but I wanted it as a woman. And so, I was finally ready to start my journey. I will hopefully complete it, end-to-end, in less than 16 months, and I have no regrets whatsoever.
Comments?
xxx
J
I came out gradually. My statements and presentation didn't actually seem to much affect most other people. Many of them acted like they didn't notice anything until I beat them over the head with it. Even those who did notice my transition often waited to react until I said in no uncertain terms that I was transitioning.
Gradual coming out was really helpful for me and how I felt, but it didn't seem to matter much socially.
Do what feels right to you, and trust yourself. You can't be sure of what matters to anyone but you. Good luck. :)
Gradual?.... A slug's pace is more like it if you by the first "official" coming out when I told my still wife nearly 40 years ago about my GD. About 5 years ago I dropped the T-Bomb on her after I realized I needed to take this on for real or......
Between the slow pace of self acceptance and even slower un-learning all the defensive or denial measures I used for decades to live as a male, the real me has been coming out though I still present as male. HRT has been a big part of the process between the emotional relief I've often relied on over the decades of very short term low dose, and the physical changes full dose is giving me. I am, for the first time ever, happy being in my own skin. With the other ball juggling I need to do in my life between an invalid wife, career, and finances, it may be a few more years before I can voluntarily go full time.
I could see no benefits in coming out gradually so told everyone I knew and just started wearing womens cloths pretty much all the time. Clocks ticking, Ill be 40 in 8 years and I want to be fully transitioned before then. id like to find a partner and have or adopt kids and live to see them have their own so... tick tock.
Yesterday evening I had forgotten the PC on this forum and my father by accident saw it... so much for gradual coming out. we still haven't talked about it although my mother told me he had a hard time sleeping last night...
probs for the best to be honest.
Quote from: alexbb on February 22, 2015, 01:01:13 PM
Clocks ticking, Ill be 40 in 8 years and I want to be fully transitioned before then. id like to find a partner and have or adopt kids and live to see them have their own so... tick tock.
Hell baby, if you're 32 you could be fully transitioned and over on the other side by the time you're 34. Plenty of time to find someone and make your life!
Xxx
J
i dont dare believe it!! its too good. im ratcheting expectations down to living as an obvious ->-bleeped-<- for years then maybe... maybe...
Minor update.
We talked with my mother again. Obviously she would like it if I could remain as I am. I told her again how I feel and she replied she understands (although it's very difficult to). She said she loves me no matter what but she still thinks I'm too masculine and have "masculine" behavior.
We talked quite a bit and she pointed out that the psychiatrist/ therapist will help me to understand what I need to do. She asked me again about my sexual orientation, I told her and she replied "at least you're not gay". I then asked her why she was saying that and also if she thought being mtf trans is better than just gay and staying a guy. She still thinks that if I find a good girl to be with, I'll be happy. I insisted that it's just one part of happiness. Of course I want to find a good person to love but it doesn't change how I feel. Anyway, it was more or less an ok conversation and I feel a bit calmer now.
Haven't told my dad yet but there was a major item on the news tonight about transgender people that we watched (e.g. Will people be as accepting of TG people in a few years as they have rapidly become more accepting of gay rights in Canada?). I made a couple comments that I wouldn't have a year ago but I don't think it was anything to tip him off. I felt tempted to come out then but I'm pretty sure I won't tell him until I have a surgery date.
On FaceBook I haven't come out but I've joined/liked a couple pages and I've posted a couple links to TG new items. For International Women's Day I posted "Allies don't have to be women" in reference to myself but I don't think that's anything that people will pick up on.
I've only had one (positive) comment since I started binding and I think they were just assuming I'd lost some weight. If I lose some more weight before surgery then when I return it will probably just look like I've continued to slim down.
I know it's kinda boring writing the same things over and over again but it's funny how parents can be so blind. Although both really love me they don't want me going down that path. Despite telling my mother the results of the 2nd therapist session she still insists I cut my hair and be a handsome guy. She believes I have a very masculine appearance and way of behaving.
I mean WHY does she still not accept it? Maybe it's too hard for her so see under my external appearance? I don't know but it's driving me crazy.
Do I need to do something more drastic (I am keen in making tiny baby steps ). Maybe I'm too shy in trying new things. Maybe it doesn't matter. I just don't know.
Darn, I just had a disturbing dream (more like nightmare). It was that my dad had serious heart problem and he had to go to the hospital (he's quite old but otherwise in good health) and I was thinking I still haven't told him plain and simple how I feel.
I really should tell him. Still, he still has to go to the doctor for a check up on his eyes (he recently had eye cataract surgery) so I don't want to tell him these days.
Should probably have again a talk with my mother who still doesn't think possible of me transitioning. Anyway, I don't know how much difference that could make since we have plenty of talks lately where I told her how I feel and what the therapist told me.
Hey Kelly
Family can be very supportive. It's my experience that loving parents whose heads aren't controlled by dogma will do whatever it takes to see that their kids are happy. If you think that you'd be happier as a girl, and you think that your dad would react ok, it gives you an immensely powerful and valuable support base.
Oh, I couldn't help but noticing your one byline "Warp 9, engage".... Are you sure you're not on Impulse power ? ;D What would it take to get you to bend space-time?
Hugs
Julia
Actually, it's more like "Take us out, thrusters only". The warp 9 is more of wishful thinking...
I know I've been saying the same things over and over but I needed to write. I admit that this is partly my fault since it's so difficult to decide what to do.
One issue is with my therapist who advised me not to do anything permanent....i feel i'm going backwards again.
Second issue (i kinda understand it) is my mother still believing I should continue as a guy. She keeps telling me to cut my hair, believes I was somehow influenced to feel this way and "disapproves" my taking part in transgender forums.
I'm saying "a bit my fault" because these days I don't feel comfortable talking with her about my issue.
i still wear jeans and a tshirt for convenience, but so far ive really been enjoying small steps; lasering my beard off, learning make up, getting my ears done, going to job interviews and other professional engagements or industry conventions in girl mode... try it? ive found not being horribly unhappy all the time improves every aspect of life; people seem nicer, food tastes better, the world is full of beauty. and you know, more people than youd think are very supportive and cool. give it a go its addictive!!!
oh, re explanation, i found this helpful
ive no idea or interest in what 'causes' tg-ness, presumably some combo of environmental chemical pollution, genetics, whatever. mundane, arbitrary, unhelpful. the dealer and the pack of cards your hand is dealt from are just agents of chance. what was important to me in making my decisions was the future; the prognosis.
this article showed i was in fact quite normal as mtf tgs go, and explained this in clear terms. it then went on to map out likely futures; a pretty happy life during and after transition, at least with regards personal gender identity and relationships and so on, or a continuation of the abject despair i felt in the closet ending in eventual suicide or stress related illness. seeing the two futures laid out so clearly, the decision was a no brainer, and this logic was convincing enough that my family and friends were onside immediately once it was explained. it sounds like your mum just wants the best for you; with some education she could be your greatest ally and help you enter girlworld smoothly using her lifetime of experience to guide you.
worth thinking about anyway.
i scraped some of the particulaarly germaine parts and put them in a single blog post but i recommend reading the whole thing.
Mod Edit - Links require prior permission. Blogs can be added to your signature. TOS 1
Quote from: kelly_1979 on May 25, 2015, 10:19:43 AM
I know I've been saying the same things over and over but I needed to write. I admit that this is partly my fault since it's so difficult to decide what to do.
One issue is with my therapist who advised me not to do anything permanent....i feel i'm going backwards again.
Hiya Kelly
I'm going to side with your therapist on this one, and here's why. From the history of this thread, it's still rather clear that you are pretty undecided about what you want, and no therapist would advocate moving forward in such a situation.
A good therapist is like a sherpa, in that the person will guide you towards where you want to go, but they will never force you to take a certain path. I'm guessing that you've expressed many doubts and very few positives to your therapist. There is nothing wrong with this - far from it! But if you feel like you're going backwards why is this the case?
Here are some exercises for you to do: I'm asking you for two paragraphs:
1. What does your heart fervently want for you? When you answer, fly and be free. Say it the way your heart would desire it to be.
2. What does your head say in response? Reduce it to 8 sentences.
Over to you...
Julia
This is an interesting subject. Like others have said - you need to do things in your own time.
For me it was more like transitioning in slow motion. I didn't want to be honest with myself and didn't want to risk losing my wife, so I slowly changed ... little things at first, then clothing styles, then earrings. Eventually I went to therapy because each step I took to ease my need to be me made things even harder for me to deal with ... I was teasing myself.
When I came out to my wife it was across several conversation and many months. When everything was finally out on the table she decided to stay, but I kept my secret from most everybody.
Over the next year I told my manager and coworkers that work very close to me. I told one sister and a couple of my nieces.
When I started estrogen I still hadn't come out to most people. I had an announcement made at a driver meeting at work and wrote a memo for everyone - at the same time (literally) a brother stumbled across my alternate Facebook page (now my only page) and I was basically forced to be honest with the entire family.
2 days after all these things I was full time ... ugly and not very passable, but full time :) :)
If I had a chance to redo everything I probably wouldn't change much because everything turned out how I wanted as an end result.
@ Julia (Julia-Madrid):
1) Ok, I had to do this in the evening (since in the morning for some strange reason I don't feel exactly the same). Even now doing this is just a bit nerve wracking ; it involves being completely honest to myself and my brain keeps playing tricks on me. (Until recently I've tried - even subconsciously - to avoid the whole issue like hell).
2) Maybe I could say it to my therapist during next session (although the first paragraph a bit uncomfortable for talking out loud)
I know it's written in a weird way but that's just how my feelings were coming out of my heart. It was difficult cause my brain and heart were fighting each other, but here goes:
"
Heart (actually it's the limbic system but let's not get into that, since we feel these emotions emanating from the core of our body)->
I want to be a girl. I wanted this since forever. Achieving my oldest wish and dream, one that I would do anything for. My goal is to achieve inner peace, to be able to look in the mirror and say "yes, this is me", as I feel inside me. To be able to be naked and not hate parts of my body.
Not having (at least to this extent) this tremendous envy of girls. I don't just want to "crossdress" (although I like feeling sexy and cute).
I can't go on with these panic attacks every now and then. I want to live without thinking of the time as an enemy dragging me in the wrong direction. Being able to express myself as I feel like. Very important, not looking at the past with regrets and "what ifs".
Brain ->
Well maybe you're not ready for it. Maybe you can find some place midway without having to resort to permanent changes.
You have lived so far as a dude without killing yourself; why risk so many things when you maybe just manage it without changing? Being a dude isn't so bad; you've kinda liked "him" ,until now that is.
Do you even know what you're getting yourself into? How will you support yourself? What if something goes wrong and you die young (or you get killed)? What if you regret about it?
"
Hope it helps (you and me)
Hey Kelly
An excellent first step. BRAVO. I will permit your correction to the limbic system, although I'm interested to see whether any more definitive studies show what the heart's 40,000 neurones actually do.
So, if you've written this, it's exactly what you should take to your psychologist. You don't need to read it - just give it to her. And, permit me to be blunt, if you're unable to be totally candid and open with her you're wasting your time and money!
Your hopes are those which many of us harbour, as are your fears, and I think highly positively of you for being clear about the concerns from your head. I do want to comment that there is no pre-requisite for you to hate the boy you are. I never hated him; I just knew that he was a girl, and he never stopped me from having a successful life.
If you want to move forward, you need a combination of hope, optimism and realism. I will say that on this site I've seen many examples of very male guys who have become very passable women. Not beauty queens; just decent everyday girls virtually no different from any other women.
There's nothing to stop you doing it gradually - in fact there is probably no other way - but you do need a clear resolve to stay the course. You can easily get rid of your beard, start HRT and work on your voice. FFS and SRS require more of a commitment.
Hugs
Julia
Again writing in this thread...
I haven't gone to the next therapist session yet (it's in 10 days) but my mother wanted to talk with me again. Anyway I showed her the text I had written above but there wasn't really any difference, at least according to her. We have talked quite a few times so there was not anything new for her.
We talked a bit about various things like: what could the ill results be because of hormones, that "being an external observer" I have a very masculine body and behavior (or so people have said), she can't imagine me having surgery, how will I support myself etc...
Again she mentioned that maybe if I had grown up with more friends and girlfriends maybe I would be different now (although I have told her so many times that gender identity and sexuality are separate).
She told me she remembers about someone who had transitioned, regretted it and detransitioned. Then I told her I have read about those people but also that most transsexuals who undergo transition under "controlled and stable environments" and do it for the right reasons do not regret it.
I know both she and my father love me unconditionally but obviously she thinks of me as her son. Still, she has said that I should do whatever makes me happy (even if it means transitioning).
She also wants to talk with my therapist so he can tell her something more.
I know she wants my happiness yet this whole thing kind of leaves me "meh". I also know I'll have to base myself on my own devices yet her behavior seems to me a bit frustrating.
I feel so angry with myself right now. I need to calm down. I just wish she could "see me" differently.
Quote from: kelly_1979 on June 01, 2015, 01:26:19 PM
I just wish she could "see me" differently.
Unfortunately, family and parents have a difficult time dealing with this. Some members in my group have parents that took years to come around
Hi Kelly
A couple of comments to you.
If you want to reduce the risk of some of the unknowns, the best way is to test them. An example: I have a couple of gay friends who like to do the drag queen thing from time to time. They are unrecognisable once dolled up. Of course the comparison is somewhat artificial, but if you were to get a professional makeover it would allow you to see how passable you may be, physically at least.
I do have a concern that you have a male therapist. It is my personal opinion that male therapists are not ideal for MTF transgender people for a couple of reasons. The first is that most men simply cannot imagine losing their penis, and the whole MTF thing leaves them flummoxed. The second is that you are talking about changing gender, and people often tend to reflect some of the behaviour of the person they are with. If you were talking to a woman therapist, this may be easier, both in terms of how you feel and behave during your sessions, and also in terms of pure approachability since she would be a woman and won't have any penis loss issues. Trust me, when I compare the reactions of my male and female colleages, they are worlds apart.
It does upset me to see you paralysed in pre-transition, since clearly you want this to happen.
Regards
Julia
Sigh....I guess I still have long to go.
Everybody (Julia too), I'm sorry that this thread is going down this way...
Tonight my father told me "This way you want to follow (regarding transitioning) is a terrible mistake. You would suffer a lot, have lots of problems; societal issues etc. You need/ have to get really hurt (in some kind of way) in order to get back to the right track".
We didn't talk more at the time cause he had to go somewhere. He's a retired medical doctor btw.
I know he wants to help me but maybe he's doing it the wrong way.
Needless to say my doubts are strong again (strong denial again?). Another thing is obviously the financial stability which is a major issue. So I guess the whole thing might have to wait. Still, it's very hard but we'll see.
@Julia: yeah, I might try the professional makeover someday, just need to find a good one and not too expensive
edit: my 100th post, I imagined it more positive...
Hey Kelly
Seriously, this is not the end of the world, and you shouldn't see it this way. Perhaps you really do need to wait some time. I waited 20 years.
From what I know of you, it seems like you're probably heading for a career in academia? Well, it doesn't matter, but what does matter is to make a success of your life, whatever you choose to do. If you become respected in your career, if you choose to transition at a future time, you will bring that kudos with you and a transition from such a point will be much easier, plus you will probably have the money for it.
Meantime, there are things you can do. I have a friend who knows he won't transition for now. But he's got rid of facial and body hair and has grown his hair really long. He's a lot happier with himself , and this seems to be an OK point for him. At least these days you would probably be 100% safe - when I was your age I might have had serious violence wrought against me.
Good luck!
Julia
Tomorrow is the next therapist session. I'm going to show him the text I wrote a few posts above. I really want this session to go better cause last one left me with mixed feelings (last things he said were "Well I may want to be a basketball player but I'm not -what you feel is a bit similar) [I'm sorry but it's not].
I probably have written it in other posts but I'm still amazed at how long it took me to accept that it's ok to feel like this and that I need to do something about it instead of trying to "wait for the waves to pass". I don't like imagining myself as an old woman in the future but old man is even worse (while having these feelings). And no, just wearing girl jeans and shirts doesn't cut it. It's deeper than that.
It's only these times when I feel OK with myself, NOT looking at my reflection that for a brief period of time I can actually feel happy and carefree.
Hey Kelly
Go for it tomorrow in your session. Honestly, you don't need to have any goal in mind, just to let yourself be free and honest and deal with whatever comes from the session without trying to impose too much reason upon it.
It's funny what you said about imagining yourself as an old man: along with other things, this is what motivated me to transition. I was in the gym, looking at all these 50-something guys, and I remember the absolutely clear thought: I do not what to be a man at their age. I cannot imagine being a man in his 50s. I resolved not to let it happen.
Hugs
Julia
I just like writing....
4th session:
It was ok-ish, better than the previous one. When I got there the psychiatrist got out and there was only an assistant female psychologist. We talked about my changing feelings, my sexuality and my difficulty in making friends and partner.
Then I gave her the text I had written (see above) which (at least she said so) helped them (psychiatrist and psychologist) to understand a few more things about me.
She said that (obviously) I have a intense yearning to be a woman and that my doubts are healthy and well considered.
Then the psychiatrist got back in and she recapped what I said to him. Btw my mother wants to see him so she'll come to the next session (after my session obviously).
I tried to ask him what I could maybe try to help myself and alleviate my feelings but he didn't say anything. (Actually he said it's too early for my mother to come to a short session but I told him it would be like 5-10 min so he agreed).
Basically both he and she asked questions but didn't offer any suggestions (are they supposed to?). I would really like some suggestions from him but I guess I'll have to try certain things on my own.
Forgot to say, during the session I referred to me mainly using the male adjectives but I don't know if that's so important.
So that's about it.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
A bit different subject; common too; but I remember some thing concerning the passage of time:
Sometimes it's like the years I was in high school ('91-96) recent. The feelings of wanting to be a girl and trying to suppress these feelings among other things are like almost yesterday. I mean to the point if I woke up and somebody told me I traveled back to being a 11-14 year old it wouldn't seem that weird.
I would probably have some difficulty fitting in but it wouldn't be that difficult [the 2000's seem like a blank decade – although it included all my bachelor, master and part of PhD years).
I try to shake off this but it's still difficult. I know we should focus on the present but I still feel like a teenage girl.
Hi Kelly
When you say you referred to yourself mainly using male adjectives, I'm guessing that you were speaking Greek? No matter, this does take some time, as do other self-references. It did take some time for me to say "Oh, you stupid girl" to myself when I'd done something silly at home, rather than the alternative. It's part of an evolution of self-image, and that will come when you're ready to accept this evolution. Surprisingly, it didn't take much effort for me to switch to female adjectives etc., in Spanish, which is what I use at least half the time.
I'm not sure what suggestions you could expect from your therapist. As I may have commented before, a good therapist is like a sherpa - they help you navigate the difficult terrain, but you must set the goal.
In my opinion you're doing ok.
Hugs
Julia
Yes it was in Greek. Another thing I need to do is train my voice, which proves to be hella difficult.
I don't know either what suggestions the therapist could give me. I guess I should try things by myself.
As you may have read I was in Aveiro, Portugal for 3 months (Erasmus+) so I still remember a few words.
So, Muito obrigada Julia!
Aaargh, yes, voice training in tough, but in many cases possible. Listen to how women speak on the radio, and imitate them as much as you can in tone and inflection. Maybe work on singing scales that will gradually allow you to shift your pitch upwards. And most of all, use your voice. It will be very fatiguing at first, but will gradually get easier. I've ended up with a voice where the fundamental pitch is higher than that of many of my female friends and colleagues, but it has no power - ok for meetings, but bad for noisy bars and restaurants.
Keep going Kelly... small steps...! :D
I have two blockers to come out to everyone I know. The first is I am not yet ready to lose job over transition. The second one is it is not yet good time to tell mom. The latter is cooler, since mom is living far away and all we have is emails and skype audio. The former is an issue. So, projected, it is less than 4 more years wait until I can start hrt. I plan to start sessions with the doc & a therapist accordingly, so hrt hits the end of that period.
At work, I am doing things "gradually", like getting the body hairless and expressing some habits in my voice as part of adapting it to my gender. Putting on a female t-shirt sometimes (in reality I just run out of men's stuff to wear). Still, when the day comes, it will be a sharp change on the work, as everyone perceives me as a man due to lack of hair.
For mom, it will be either when she decides to visit me or after my bro gets a kid. If I decide not to come out to some people, it is to avoid getting her in situations she'd consider embarrassing.
Once the two have been breached, I couldn't care less for what other ppl think.
Kelly : I have just reviewed the entire thread and it has greatly changed what I was going to post. It is pretty clear to me you will not be happy in your current role and some change is needed in your life. If it is just cross living or all the way, only you can determine that. I was slow to get started because I thought I would have more time and I didn't have the resource to draw upon that are available today. Yes there was fear of the unknown as well because I had never appeared in public before starting the transition. To me you also have that fear because I am seeing others on this web site that once they start moving, nothing is going to stop them. Some of them are moving so fast I am having a hard time keeping up with them and no, it's not my age. Tell that logic side of you that the heart side of you isn't going to change and will not allow you to rest until you are moving forward. You need to accept that the only way to be at peace with the inter you will be to transition and the sooner you do that the sooner you will end this turmoil that is going on inside you.
Once you have come to a decision to move forward, you need to face your parents and tell them you have two options. One is to live as a very unhappy male and the other is to live as a very happy female. There will be no third option. Will they accept this, probably not but they will understand the ground rules. I only learned a short time ago long after my fathers death that he never accepted what I did. My mother took many years to wear down and sometime she doesn't understand me but she does accept me.
Now I can understanding you wanting to finish school but there is so much preparation you can do before hand. A big one is electrolyses as you need about 3 days growth before treatment. I am not familiar with laser removal but I suspect it has ground rules for growth. It's really hard covering 3 days growth with makeup. You can work out your look and work on the voice. In addition to school, you have many other things to learn.
It is your decision but that's my take on it.
Ok, so my mom lately keeps telling me every day that I need to cut my hair (at least the sides).
She said "It looks like a brush. You have straight hair and long hair doesn't suit you. You were handsome before. Now you look uglier. There is beautiful and ugly" (Ok actually I don't like how my hair looks now but I'm fed up with having it short since I always wanted long hair).
Another argument she used was that she has short hair so why can't I too. She even said "If you keep growing your hair I'm going to leave the house" (I doubt she actually meant that).
After that "I understand how you feel but you need to look nice. You can do whatever you want but please not something that people see" (Yeah if you REALLY REALLY REALLY UNDERSTOOD maybe you would be just a tad different) (or maybe she understands well but is very afraid that I will destroy myself if I follow that path).
Sorry to rant like this but the moment I think she understands, BAM! It's like after these months we talked about my feelings (not counting previous years) she was accepting (at that time I was going to the therapist) and now again backwards....
The phrase "Everything gets worse before it gets better" comes to mind concerning how I feel.
I try to forget all these things she tells me cause otherwise I'll go crazy.
edit: my hair just covers my ears so I'll have to wait like a year to even think of a ponytail.
Quote from: kelly_1979 on July 28, 2015, 12:21:52 PM
Ok, so my mom lately keeps telling me every day that I need to cut my hair (at least the sides).
She said "It looks like a brush. You have straight hair and long hair doesn't suit you. You were handsome before. Now you look uglier. There is beautiful and ugly" (Ok actually I don't like how my hair looks now but I'm fed up with having it short since I always wanted long hair).
Hi Kelly,
Perhaps the answer to this is go to a hair stylist to clean up the long hair. By the way many men have long hair. Perhaps the stylist could suggest an androgynous style for your long hair or get a feminine cut but be able to hide it by wearing a pony tail. Women with long hair still get hair cuts to keep their hair from getting unruly.
I read through this thread and I have one question for you. You say you are quite masculine. What exactly do you mean by that? Sometimes we think we're more masculine than we really are. If you look at some of the transition pictures it can be quite remarkable how taking hrt can change your appearance.
Speaking of hrt, have you read the threads about low dose hrt on Susans? Perhaps that be a path you could consider.
Good luck with your journey,
Paige :)
As I'm burning to come out but can't now (so many things to do first) I feel I need to keep dropping some hints (ofcourse I could simply not say anything but the whole thing is overwhelming). As I've mentioned before there is this female "coworker" (actually PhD student) that I'm somewhat closer (even though she has a serious boyfriend). Past months I've dropped a few hints like commenting on her hair, her nails, me wearing girl jeans etc.
Today I noticed she had somewhat longer manicured almond shaped nails. During the day at a point when we were the two of us in a room I asked her if her nails are gel or Shellac.
Me: "I see you have almond shaped nails. Are they gel or shellac? Cause it's a bit difficult to have this kind of nails with regular polish."
Her: "They are gel nails. They last about 20 days (regarding manicure). I remove them by acetone and foil..."
Me: "You know, you should be careful because gel nails for too long can weaken your natural nails"
Her: "Hey "Male name" how come you know so much about this!?" (I had it coming)
Me: "Mind your own business..." I then got out of the room to continue what I was doing.
(Point taken :p)
Dunno if she's gonna tell somebody else (maybe, maybe not – I hope not people where we work). Of course you could say "Well, you're asking for it". Right now I'm sort of stuck in the middle of pretending to be "that guy" (at least to most of the people and leaving these hints to certain people, which obviously mean I'm not exactly "that guy".
So since I noticed I am loosing my hair I got anxious, stressed and felt "betrayed by nature".
Anyway my mother asked me if I wanted to talk again about the whole trans issue but as the 3 of us (mother and father that is). Keep in mind we hadn't really had a "complete conversation" with my father.
I told them again how I felt all these years, what I want to do and tried to explain in detail my feelings. At first I tried to control myself but my parents kept telling me what could have "caused" this, I felt really angry and shouted at them. I know, my bad, I shouldn't have shouted but I felt like bursting.
My mother told me she can't pay for anything trans-related because we don't have enough money. She told me she understands what I'm going through but that I need to adapt to the circumstances and do what's possible ("We all have wants and dreams but we have to stick to reality"). She also said the last therapist (weird sessions etc) told her I'm a man and have Asperger (dunno if I do, maybe to some degree).
My father (who is a doctor) said he believes hormones will wreck my body and doesn't want me to destroy myself. He told me he remembers me being happier some years ago and that I wasn't always like this. Both also reminded me that the previous therapist (10 years ago) told them (apart from me not being trans) that it was very wrong I grew up with my grandmother and mother in the house only - since my Dad back then was working until late.
They still believe I was somehow "influenced" by not really having a man at the house then. Also that it was wrong I was without friends and girlfriends as a teenager. My father commented again that I need to get really hurt to "snap out of it" but when I asked him to explain what exactly he meant he didn't really answer. I even mentioned that there may be some brain differences between cis and trans people but the brain measurements (dissections) were done post-mortem and he said "another reason I can't believe you're trans".
Oh I forgot - I tried to explain to my mother what dysphoria feels like "I look at the mirror and see a stranger (or hate what I see)" and she replied saying that it's like some psychological disorder.
Fair enough, I know it's my fault for believing the first therapist and my parents telling me I can "win" this and most importantly not being self sufficient after school (not having a job and preferably moving away from my parents). I believed that they would understand me but I guess it was so naive of me. I feel so stupid for relying on them and not having acted on my own but what's done, is done.
On the other hand, I can somehow understand them since they still see me as I physically am and it's almost impossible to understand the real me. Still...it depends on the parent I guess. Bleh...
I just wish they would understand the real me and not try to look for "causes".
So I guess it's only up to me (I had guessed it but I had some dim hopes they would actually help me).
Lately I've been really depressed and end up crying randomly - yesterday I started crying while I was driving but after a few mins I was ok-ish.
I know I sound so desperate and sulking but I'm just pouring my feelings out.
If your father is a doctor, tell him to come to the SO section of the web site as we have several doctors up here who he could talk to. Hormones if you are properly cared for will not harm your body. I took my first pill about 1978 and my last one 10 years ago and never suffered any damage from it. Many others out there can tell the same story. It is possible to have Aspergers and be transgender at the same time. They are controlled by different parts of the brain and have different causes. I know of one FTM for sure and I think there are a few others on this site. It isn't a reason to withhold treatment.
It appears the way to find you help will be dealing with your parents so ask them if they are willing to come here and have them create a separate log in so your account will be separate from theirs.
For those who are wondering...
Well (obviously), despite trying to explain the whole thing to my parents and them reading the latest SOC, they still think it would be a very bad idea to follow that road. Even when I told my mother that I'm afraid going bald she said that I should just stop having so much anxiety; taking any kind of drug is good only for serious health issues. She keeps saying I shouldn't have so much anxiety and that it's bad for me, and when I try to tell her the reason for having this anxiety she's like "well you just have to tough it out...they are so many seriously ill people in the world who are in worse condition that you....".
After telling them so many times I've sadly come to the point that they'll probably never see me (?) for who I really am, so I guess I'm on my own on this.
Quote from: kelly_1979 on November 17, 2015, 01:54:52 PM
she's like "well you just have to tough it out...they are so many seriously ill people in the world who are in worse condition that you....".
After telling them so many times I've sadly come to the point that they'll probably never see me (?) for who I really am, so I guess I'm on my own on this.
Hi Kelly,
It's so easy to be dismissive of being transgender if you're not transgender. Would your mother have used the same line of reasoning 30 years ago if you told her you were gay? Just stay in the closet?
Sure it's understandable that parents don't want their children getting hurt, but what about the hurt on the inside? Internal suffering can be just as bad as external.
As for your hair, there's very little risk to taking finasteride or dutasteride and they are prescribed all the time to people who aren't transgender.
Take care,
Paige :)
Ok, I won't do anything stupid but I so effing hate myself right now. Past months I've noticed general hair thinning (and yes, I know it's mpb) on the temples all the way to the crown (all these short hairs), which is driving me crazy. I know there are many mtf who are bald (no offense) and wear a toupee (?) but still I want to try to avoid it if I can. From the rate of short hairs appearing I figure I haven't much time left (months to 1.5 -2 years maximum).
I just suddenly feel old, hate even more my body and am still depressed. I thought I would have more time but apparently not...
I keep hitting myself (figuratively) why I ignored the whole thing for so long....
TMI: Yesterday after m...ing (yeah TMI) immediately after or...m I burst into tears.
Even people at work sometimes ask me why I look unhappy and I reply saying I just have lots of work to do...
My parents are now quite old, my Mother needs to have an operation (first stage uterus cancer) and I need to help them in a way so the whole thing is rather tricky. I've resigned myself (and told my mother too) to probably not having children. During a discussion with my parents they told me "we thought you would grow up to have a family, a normal career etc" (well life's different than you expect, you know). They keep saying I would feel better if I had friends, that I should go to a psychiatrist to help me with my stress (well there are certain REASONS for being so stressed and depressed, you can't just tell me not to be stressed without me actually doing something on these issues - something medical that is).
ok....enough ranting...
I really don't want to harm myself, I'm just saying that right now if I didn't wake up tomorrow morning (died in my sleep) it wouldn't really matter.
There may be two solutions. First there are drugs to stop baldness that males normally take. The other option is while you don't want to transition while your parents are alive, blockers would buy you some time without changing your body. They would both stop the baldness and give you some relief from the feelings you have. Both of these solutions could be kept from your parents.
Yeah, I'll try the first but I probably couldn't keep it from my parents since currently I don't have any extra money. Anyway, I'll try.
It's just that I feel I'm being pushed closer and closer to completely breaking down. I almost cried at work but managed to hide it. I know I can probably (can I?) just push my way through but my emotional status is almost completely unpredictable. I just feel so fake putting up this persona, I make cruel jokes and keep trying to "hide" until I feel it's "safe"....
edit: yeah...so much for trying...even trying to mention the facts that I need to take some drugs for my hair loss they started saying drugs can cause cancer (that I should see how so many patients are suffering from cancer) that they can cause permanent effects etc...
No matter how many times I try to elaborate how much I'm suffering they're just saying I shouldn't damage my health.
I don't get how they can be so stubborn....don't they understand how serious the situation is?
edit2: My mother just told me Dad took some Bromazepam to relax because he felt his heart. (Well they do care about me, but they are very afraid and still can't accept/ understand (?)) Really don't know what to believe...
Quote from: kelly_1979 on December 03, 2015, 12:19:18 PM
Yeah, I'll try the first but I probably couldn't keep it from my parents since currently I don't have any extra money. Anyway, I'll try.
It's just that I feel I'm being pushed closer and closer to completely breaking down. I almost cried at work but managed to hide it. I know I can probably (can I?) just push my way through but my emotional status is almost completely unpredictable. I just feel so fake putting up this persona, I make cruel jokes and keep trying to "hide" until I feel it's "safe"....
edit: yeah...so much for trying...even trying to mention the facts that I need to take some drugs for my hair loss they started saying drugs can cause cancer (that I should see how so many patients are suffering from cancer) that they can cause permanent effects etc...
No matter how many times I try to elaborate how much I'm suffering they're just saying I shouldn't damage my health.
I don't get how they can be so stubborn....don't they understand how serious the situation is?
edit2: My mother just told me Dad took some Bromazepam to relax because he felt his heart. (Well they do care about me, but they are very afraid and still can't accept/ understand (?)) Really don't know what to believe...
Hi Kelly,
Your parents know that HRT isn't dangerous (risky, sure, but thousands take it without issues). Your parents knew long ago that you were not going to have a 'normal' career -- what percentage of people even attempt a PhD?
The fact is, your parents are scared. Your mother has cancer. They are both getting older. No doubt, they are feeling that they are not totally in control of their lives, and in a society predicated on the belief that we are creators of our own destiny, this can be a shocking, depressing reminder of how ephemeral our lives really are. Of course, your potential for transition is undoubtedly contributing to their anxiety.
But there are no threats. There is no violence. Your parents are scared, yes. But they know that in life, things do not always work out as planned. They may not want you to transition, but they unquestionably support your right to be happy, and to live your life as you wish... why else would they financially support you when they wish you had a 'normal' job, family, etc.?
The thing is, we're not actually afraid of what things that we cannot change. Your mother's illness is no doubt a great cause of stress for her, but once you are sick, it is pointless being afraid of it -- you just have to accept it, try and treat it as best you can, and do your best to not to let it drag you down and stop you living your life the way you want to.
The same goes with your dysphoria. Trust me, nobody wants it! But it is pointless being afraid of things you cannot change. You just have to accept it, treat it as best you can, and do your best to not let it drag you down and stop you living your life the way you want to.
Once you decide to do that, based on what you have told us, I have no doubt that your parents will be right there beside you :)
Quote from: kelly_1979 on December 03, 2015, 12:19:18 PM
No matter how many times I try to elaborate how much I'm suffering they're just saying I shouldn't damage my health.
I don't get how they can be so stubborn....don't they understand how serious the situation is?
The statement comes to mind "I will be a healthy corpse if I don't receive treatment and commit suicide. The depression is real and sadly the numbers for us surviving aren't good without treatment. Anything that has that much emotional impact on a person may also affect on our health. Treatment can lower blood pressure and give us the incentive to do things like lose weight and take better care of our self. Your parents clearly are choosing to ignore the facts and live in a simple to deal with world.
Kinda change subject - here's a question.
I know it's difficult to answer this just from what I've written up to this point but opinions are welcome.
As I've written before, where I work there is this girl ("D") with whom we're somewhat closer, at least compared to the rest of the people there.
She has had a serious relationship for years and after a "failed attempt" or "wrong understanding on my part" having a crush on her we reverted back to being just friends. I've met her boyfriend multiple times and we are in good terms. Still, despite the closeness things have been kinda awkward, at least as I see it. For example at the Christmas or New Years' Eve or when she has her birthday she hasn't allowed me to kiss her on the cheek, whereas when other girls have their birthdays they don't refuse a "friendly kiss". I don't know if there is any significance but I'm not sure why she does this. I mean I would like to be "closer" to her as a friend only but apparently there is a barrier.
As I've written in other posts, now and then I've let some hints about myself. I don't know if she has picked up or suspecting what I really am. Anyways, yesterday I got a free face cream sample from Clinique (via an SMS) and I asked her on Facebook something about it (whether you can also use it as eye cream) and she responded with "If you are going to ask stupid questions I won't answer. I attribute it to your suffering" (I was kinda sick that day). I then replied with "If you don't want to answer at least don't say I'm asking stupid questions". She still hasn't answered, despite reading it.
If she simply said something else it would have been better.
So, did I make a stupid mistake asking her about this? She was one of my only "friends".
Kelly, I wouldn't worry about your co-worker being hesitant to allow the kiss on the cheek. I get the feeling from your posts that she was aware on some level of your crush or romantic feelings towards her. Not being open to the occasional kiss on the check can be her way of not encouraging romantic feelings on your part.
If your co-worker has only had hints that your transgender it leads me to think she still basically views you as male. This more than likely led to her not so helpful reply to your question about skin cream. Most woman are going to be a little uncomfortable with a person they view as male asking about things that are normally viewed as being in the realm of female activity. To put it more bluntly most women get a little uncomfortable around an average man that seems to know to much about what they view as female activities such as make up, manicures and women's fashion. This would also include a man asking to many questions about these things.
So, I may have mentioned earlier about a colleague at my lab in the university, (call her D.), with whom we're fairly close.
To recap previous events, I've known her for ~ 3 years, a some time there was "mistaken understanding of hints - crush" (I thought she would have loved me but apparently she still had had a boyfriend). Anyway, after some time things got back to ~normal - as they were, but not exactly (still avoiding any real physical contact). Last year or so they have been certain "feminine" behaviors of mine :painted nails a few times, talked to her about nails or hair but it became awkward. A few months ago I had asked her something about a free face cream sample but she cut off the discussion abruptly.
Nowadays I often wear plain girl skinny jeans. Initially I got some comments like "hey nice jeans" or "you are too thin" but these days they are no comments whatsoever.
Few days ago D. told me and some colleagues (basically girls) that she broke up with her boyfriend (after 8 years). I didn't ask anything then. Later during the week she told me she was frustrated that her former boyfriend keeps contacting her as if nothing happened. I just replied saying that maybe it's because of the distance (he works on a island far away) and that fact they were together for so long.
(Obviously there was another reason they broke up but I didn't say anything else because I'm still like walking on the razor's edge so to say.)
[At least after I've accepted myself I'm not anymore really jealous of D's now former boyfriend - it's more "yeah ok". Like even if she could love me, it would be pretty much impossible to love me for who I actually am].
Some people have commented that I'm such a gossip guy (actually girl) when that initially they didn't think of me like that.
It's also confusing because I keep switching depending on who I'm talking to. On most guys and girls I put up my "male persona" (what's left of it) and only when with girls that I trust and I'm closer to I may loosen up and behave more like myself.
So they questions are....
1) how to behave in a way that's not totally "male" (I hate that) but also not blatantly fem thinking and talking about certain things? (I'm thinking of integrating some more feminine - ish things on my presentation but which could be classified as unisex).
2) what does D. really think of me? (Obviously still guy but....?)
I hope what I wrote makes sense....
So much for not writing in the forum....
So far (sadly) I've done nothing on my trans issue....
I know I come off as stupid and needy but here goes:
-I am 38 years old now
-I haven't had a job (first Bachelor, then Msc and now 4 years in my semi-failed PhD). Thought it would be better to focus on completing my studies first. Stupid me.
-I'm 4.5 years into my Phd which, sadly, has been so far a disaster more or less. Meaning I don't have enough data to publish. One reason for this is my trans issue (obviously) which I've tried to suppress and is causing me extreme stress - do the point I feel like I hate my Phd. I don't think I really hate it,although I have difficulty on many assays /lab protocols, but rather hate the situation I'm trapped into. Still, I don't really love my profession.
-My professor isn't trans-friendly and a bit raunchy (?)
-I'm balding and too scared to start Finasteride/ Dutasteride (so far I'm at norwood ~2.5-3, close to 3v)
-I'm not even close to starting laser and electrolysis
-I haven't come out to anybody, bar my parents, the therapist and a lady I went to wax my legs a year ago.
-I feel like I can't continue like this. Every month or so I have a major panic attack that lasts for days.
-I still live with my parents in a large house. Despite me trying to explain the situation to them for years they just refuse to accept it. They'll probably die and never accept it.
Probably I'm in more stress than I need to be. Last year I kept getting sick easily , I've had for months pimples on my body etc. Sometimes my dysphoria is so great I feel I want to punch the mirror or cut away my genitals (if it would solve the problem I would do it).
Ultimately it's up to me. Either I can continue to struggle and probably crash and burn at some point unable to finish my PhD, or I can try to find a job and quit my PhD (I'd rather not), or find a part time job and do my PhD at the same time - very difficult, because I'm in the lab practically 8-9 hours a day.
Any suggestions welcome.
Only one thing. You have a list of tasks to accomplish and they don't all need to be done at the same time. Pick one item, maybe and easy one and put your effort into accomplishing it. If you feel you can handle two tasks or start a second while you are finishing the first, then do two. Don't attempt to do the whole list at once as it's overwhelming. Yes, it may take a year or two to work through the list but at least you are making progress toward your goal.
Ok just to wrap things up. For years I keep thinking I'm doing things wrong and that I should be doing other things (working towards my goal).
[Rant mode]
Every now and then I have panic attacks. I can't concentrate at my PhD, my father has told me that if I continue this way I'll never finish, that if I transition I'll fail at life. They told me that even if they had a lot of money they would never help me destroy myself. They can not see me. Period. I've tried and tried but they refuse to understand.
During the panic attacks I'm so angry I just want to hurt myself and break things.
I don't want to hate them but I can't help it. It's almost as if they are strangers to me. My father gave me to read a text he had written about why I'm not trans but only mild Asperger, stating his opinion about therapists I've gone to. Based on my opinion, most of what he had written was 100% wrong. I really couldn't bring myself to read it loudly, I just read it in my head. They asked me if I wanted to talk about having Asperger etc (because it's "causing" my GID). He also mentioned that this GID began during my puberty. I replied that I didn't want to and they got mad again.
[/Rant mode]
I know this is stupid of me and that most of this agitation etc would be gone if I was working at the same time and living alone. I just remember being 12-13 wishing I wouldn't end up the way I am now.
I presumed parent love was unconditional. Both tell me they love me very much. They keep telling me they don't want me to get hurt and they'll do anything to stop me from self destruction. I guess it's better to give up any hopes of my parents ever understanding me. I just don't know what to think.
It would have been easier (but harder for them) to admit that I might be trans and that I should do anything to help myself.
I really don't know what I would do I if were a parent in a similar situation.
I'll pipe in mainly because what I see as your tasks are manageable, you just need to manage them. I'll relate it to building a car, you can't start at the wheels, since there is nothing to attach them to, so you start at the frame and build out, often taking one step at a time.
Of the things I'd concentrate on now for you, I'd do the PhD, and if you had the money, then finasteride. Once you see those two are moving along smoothly, then and only then add another item on your list. Don't worry about your parents accepting it not, or electrolysis OR hrt OR anything else. Having your PhD will give you confidence and open a lot of doors for you.
Anyway, that's my take. My personal projects have hundreds if not thousands of items that I lost that need done. If I try to think of it as a whole, many times I'll break down in circular thought and think it'll never get done. However, managing that list gets me there.
Bari Jo
Hi Kelly (waves),
Hon a PhD is a huge undertaking. That's without the challenge of panic attacks (and yes, they are awful, especially when underpinned by dysphoria). From personal experience, it sounds like your dad has fallen back into 'parenting' mode where he believes his projection will give you direction, but those days have passed.
Completing your PhD will give you a great deal of satisfaction if you are enjoying your field, and the kudos it will give to your opinions, especially when you've transitioned. However - it sounds like you're not in love with your field of study. If this is the case, then completion in the time allowed may be elusive.
I'm going to send a PM, as there is material that I'm reluctant to post here in public, but rest assured, I do understand, and will support as best I can.
Rowan
OK, so I feel I'm writing the same things again, only the situation seems worse. I'm still trying to finish my PhD - still have quite a bit of lab work to do though. These years I've done stupid mistakes on my research (accidentally destroying fungal stocks) and I was terrified of being kicked out of the lab.
Past two years , probably due to constant stress, I've developed adrenal fatigue, causing my health to go downhill, bad sleep (less than 5 hours every day) and inability to concentrate on anything. I told my professor I've done these huge mistakes and he still wants to help me. It was a mental shift as I suddenly felt positive and thought I might be able to do something regarding my gender issue.
In previous posts I had written I hated my PhD. That's not exactly true. I like research but due to stress I f*k up everything and can't seem to go forward. That's why I thought I "hated" my PhD. (If I could start doing something about my gender now, I feel that most of my anxiety would disappear).
My dysphoria is at all time high, practically making it impossible to work. My parents again told me they are not supporting me on the gender issue and that I shouldn't expect any financial help on the issue. I tried explaining how bad my health is actually is but they still insist going down the trans road is going to make things worse. It's like they are blind. So now I feel even more terrified and worse.
I know you people told me to try and forget about my gender issues and focus on my PhD but this seems impossible, given my health issues.
So I feel I'm left with a difficult choice: either quit PhD after all all these years - despite that I would like to finish it - and search for a job or try somehow (ask somebody at the university for suggestions, although I'm terrified ??) to find support and find some money to do SOMETHING so I keep myself sane.
Frankly, right know I'm almost crying as I'm writing this
Thanks for reading despite I tend to repeat myself over and over.
Quote from: kelly_1979 on February 02, 2019, 11:24:21 PM
So I feel I'm left with a difficult choice: either quit PhD after all all these years - despite that I would like to finish it - and search for a job or try somehow (ask somebody at the university for suggestions, although I'm terrified ??) to find support and find some money to do SOMETHING so I keep myself sane.
Frankly, right know I'm almost crying as I'm writing this
Thanks for reading despite I tend to repeat myself over and over.
Hi Kelly,
I haven't read this thread in a while. I can't remember if you said you're seeing a gender therapist, that would probably be a very good idea if you're not.
Anyway, it sounds like you want to transition but can't right now because of your PHD. Maybe what you should do is start low dose hormones. At least that will give the feeling that you're on your way and you probably won't display any major changes for quite some time. If by some miracle you start to develop too fast, you can reduce your dose.
I've been taking low dose estrogen for 3 years, nobody except my therapist, wife and doctor know. My skin is a softer. I have small breasts but I don't show with a shirt on. I still have times of extreme dysphoria but this has definitely taken the edge off.
Also for stress I would also suggest moderate exercise, meditation and mindfulness.
Good luck,
Paige :-)
kelly_1979, you should finish your phd then you can get a job that will allow you to transition. Paige's idea is worth looking into as just getting a low dose of hormones can change your complete outlook on life.
[Question to myself: why the EF didn't I ask for help earlier?]. After parents "threats" instead of asking help I turned into pessimistic mode, thinking things would just get worse and kept trying to go on with my studies. Few days ago I came out to a family friend and he referred me to a psychologist he knows. I also asked for a session with the university's psychologist (why didn't I think of this sooner). I don't know if anything will come out of it but it's worth the try
Quote from: kelly_1979 on February 22, 2019, 04:39:22 AM
[Question to myself: why the EF didn't I ask for help earlier?]. After parents "threats" instead of asking help I turned into pessimistic mode, thinking things would just get worse and kept trying to go on with my studies. Few days ago I came out to a family friend and he referred me to a psychologist he knows. I also asked for a session with the university's psychologist (why didn't I think of this sooner). I don't know if anything will come out of it but it's worth the try
It doesn't matter that you didn't think of it until now. The important thing is you've thought of it now and are actively trying to help yourself.
Well done and good luck with the therapists. :)
Paige :)
[to mods: if possible, append this to my previous post]
Considering my current health situation I think I agree with Paige's idea, that is to try and start low dose HRT (if possible), just to take the edge off. The tricky thing is that you have to live for 3 months as the desired gender, which, considering the circumstances is pretty much impossible. I have so much stress and anxiety I have difficulty walking upstairs plus many nights I can't sleep more than 4 hours max.
Quote from: kelly_1979 on February 23, 2019, 06:23:39 AM
The tricky thing is that you have to live for 3 months as the desired gender, which, considering the circumstances is pretty much impossible. I have so much stress and anxiety I have difficulty walking upstairs plus many nights I can't sleep more than 4 hours max.
Hi Kelly,
I'm so sorry you have to go through this. Where do you live? I can't believe there are still countries that do this.
Paige :)
Actually, I might be mistaken for what I wrote in the above post. Yesterday I went to a psychologist/ psychoanalyst a family friend introduced me to. First session seemed good, although my dysphoria has ramped up even more since yesterday. One of the main issues she focused on was reducing my anxiety, which could also reduce my hair loss (i doubt though that just but taking anti anxiety medication would help on mpb). She also referred me to a psychiatrist who also deals with gender issues (according to her, but I didn't find anything about gender issues regarding his expertise on the internet). I'll post updates after I see him.
Yesterday was the 2nd session with the new psychiatrist. On the first session I had explained everything about my GID etc but also told him about the extreme fatigue. He prescribed me 2 benzos and also asked for certain thyroid tests.
I didn't take the benzos because I was too afraid of the side effects. On the second session he asked me again in detail about my life as a child, my adult life etc...
Since I was hesitant taking the benzos I asked him if there any other way, other drug or possibility without drug. He was empathic on me taking the benzos and later switching to SSRIs. He even told me that with this anxiety even if he wrote down the letter for HRT the endocrinologist wouldn't want me to start hormone therapy.
So wtf do I do now? I can't keep spending 50 euros (without receipt) every time I go to him while he keeps postponing giving me the letter.
Quote from: kelly_1979 on March 08, 2015, 05:03:44 PM
. . . she thought being mtf trans is better than just gay and staying a guy.
Or, better yet, gay AND MtF? lol Always been of opinion that two negatives (-), in certain math equations anyway, makes for a (+) positive, cancels all "negativity" out!
Quote
it's funny how parents can be so blind . . . still insists I cut my hair and be a handsome guy
They're not blind just hoping it all goes away? Yesterday daughter and "ex" were badgering me, saying exact same thing, asked them "
and be like you"? Have all your
issues instead? No thanks!
Quote
Actually, it's more like "Take us out, thrusters only". The warp 9 is more of wishful thinking...
;D I am a trekky fan! Remember watching original series when first came out in 1963! Tell yer parents, like I did my tatoo'd daughter, you want to ^point^ your ears (change subject) and maybe they'll
LIGHTEN UP? Kelly haven't read this entire thread yet but "thrusters only", taking it slow is actually the best way to go! My dad was ex-Marine, a pilot & socially very conservative to boot and eventually he was 'ok' with me, they tend to mellow with age ;)
You have to tell your therapist that you know what most of your problem is and it's gender dysphoria. If your therapist is unwilling to address the subject, you will need to find a different therapist. The goal is to treat the problem and not to dope yourself up to the point where you're unable to feel anything.
I went through three therapist before I was able to find what I needed. The first admitted his limitations and understood he couldn't provide what I needed. The second had exposure but really didn't have much knowledge about treatment. The third was exactly what I needed and was able to provide what I lacked.
Remember that you are a customer and if the therapist doesn't provide what you need, you should fire them and find somebody who can do the job.
I know, it's just I'm being bombarded on multiple fronts
1) extreme "Adrenal fatigue" to the point of having difficulty walking upstairs
2) extreme anger, feel like breaking things (feel like being trapped in a situation): unable to finish unfunded PhD because of anxiety
3) kinda unsupportive parents (Ok, I know I'm an adult, so I shouldn't depend on them at all - bad life choices). I've told them that most likely the reason for my extreme fatigue and anxiety is needing to transition and trying not to (unfunded PhD), but they are like "the doctor will say that", and "the anxiety levels, cortisol, testosterone etc need to return to normal before you start anything" while I try to explain that this is impossible since most likely the reason for these imbalances is not transitioning and keep repressing it.
4) unable to start a "normal" job because of stress, fatigue
5) therapists hesitant to write letter for HRT because of my stress and my fatigue
So, right now I can't think of other way of temporarily (?) stopping my PhD and try to find any job possible so I'm not overly dependent on my parents. I really don't know what to do.
Slight update.
Two days ago I went to an endo my father found. I told him about my extreme fatigue and muscle wasting, he did a physical exam using some vibrating (?) instruments (must have been a tuning fork) and he said I needed to do an MRI of the pituitary gland. Now I'm waiting for the results.
Honestly, I feel that bar from ending up on a wheelchair, blind or dead, it can't get worse than this (health situation + dysphoria) OK actually it CAN get worse than this, but just waking up and looking at the mirror I feel like smashing it.
Will post update.
So, I got the results from the MRI and the findings are normal. So I don't know wtf is wrong. Also, past week I've had a weird unpleasant taste in my mouth. Still searching....
Hi Kelly,
I have no clue what's going on with your body, but you seem extremely stressed and stress has many negative affects on the body.
If stress is the cause you can blame your dysphoria for some of that, but could it also be your diet, exercise or maybe a need for mediation and mindfulness.
Like I said, I have no way of knowing what's going on but it couldn't hurt to look at these other things.
Hope you start feeling better.
Take care,
Paige :)
[rant mode]
Next Thursday I have an appointment with a new endocrinologist about my (adrenal?) fatigue. The previous one didn't really help. He just told me to take Magnesium and thar he would see me again in 2 months time. Seriously doctor???
I can't believe how much I've effed up myself. I don't think anybody else has ever done such damage to themselves and their health from worrying. I kept trying to "push through" thinking I would have to postpone transitioning for years and just suck it up.
Regarding my health I've lost practically everything in 2.5 years.
I don't know if I can do it anymore. I can't look at my reflection in the mirror. If I were to grade my dysphoria it would be like 12 out of 10.
[\rant mode]
[rant - despair mode on]
I know you people are going to tell me to hold on and that things will get better, but I honestly can't see how. I'm still months away from having a job that pays well or a PhD part time project which will pay some money. My health is deteriorating rapidly. I feel I've aged 20 years in the past 2 years. Everyday I have more pains in my body and feel apathy. Tomorrow I'm going to a new endocrinologist to see what is wrong with my body. I really hope he can help me but I'm not sure he can.
I don't know how many days I've got left but I don't know if I'll make it until next year. I wanted to thank everybody who tried to help me although I didn't follow many of their suggestions and tried to fight the GID issue.
[[rant - despair mode off]
edit: Ok yesterday I was feeling really bad psychologically, that's why I wrote I wanted to die. I DON'T WANT to die. The truth still is that I'm going worse every day. Today I went to the new endo who prescribed some new tests. I really don't know what else to do. I need some local friends who will support me. It's difficult to make friends when you pretend to me somebody else (male).
So, today or tomorrow I'm going to come out to a female colleague of mine from the University. Now she is technically married but we have known each other for a long time and I have helped her a lot on her PhD. Generally she has been supportive on my PhD difficulties. She even offered to search for a psychologist to help me. I have "primed" the coming out by telling her it's a sensitive matter and that I wouldn't like anybody else to know, at least not right now.
It's going to be really awkward, considering I'm still presenting as a guy and probably keep on for quite a while. Still, taking into account my health problems and my huge dysphoria, I feel I'm going to massively regret it if I don't tell her.
She may or may not accept me but I know that after tomorrow our relationship will be changed forever.
Wish me luck.
Honestly it's really about what you are comfortable with and it sounds like you are very tentative. Now you may have a different experience than myself, rejection is what we fear but sometimes our fears are unfounded.
I was hugly fearful as I approached people close to me to announce I was Transgender and would be transitioning in the near future. Fortunately I have had nothing but positive and supportive responses. I will say that women seem far more understanding and accepting so hopefully your friend will embrace the True Self you reveal.
Something to think about is to be able to share what your plans are in a concrete manner. You don't need hard dates or a schedule or formal project plan, but know what you want, know approximately when you are going to get there. I had may feminine name already picked out and I shared that as I came out to each person.
Personally I think that helped with acceptance because it was clear I had thought things out, was well on my way, and just informing them as close trusted friends about this very personal evolution in my life.
Best of luck to you.
So, yesterday I went to her house and came out to her there. Her husband was in the house too but we sat in the yard so he wasn't listening to what we were saying.
First of all, her reaction wasn't negative, she said she fully accepted and supported me but that she didn't have any experience with transgender people. She also mentioned that one of the thoughts that crossed her mind was that I was trans. The whole talk was "strictly professional" (we didn't even handshake or anything) (Ideally I wanted a person that I could hug - to somewhat relieve the pressure I felt...but that could happen only in my dreams).
She said her mother was a former psychologist and maybe she could help me. Regarding my health issues she gave me the name of a good rheumatologist she knew so I could untangle was it wrong with my body (possible autoimmune disease?).
Regarding the university, she confirmed my worst fears that practically nobody would accept me at the lab. I'm referring to professors. My professor supposedly wants me in the lab (I've been there since doing my Bacheror) but he's typical alpha male type guy and often makes s3xual jokes, causing me to feel really awkward and bad. His behavior plus my condition are one of the main reasons my PhD has gone down the drain.
I'm hoping she is wrong on that matter but truth is most people are ignorant.
She insisted that the most important thing right now is to find income and become independent. Also to do my best to finish the experiments on my PhD. The writing I can always do it while also doing something else.
When I explained that I am trans but I liked women (initially I hadn't told her that) she was somewhat dumbfounded. She found it difficult to understand "how can you be trans and want to have an operation but like women". I did explain that gender identity is different from sex gender preference. She then commented that very few people know this. Most assume that if one wants to be a woman she also wants to have sex with men.
One thing she pointed out what that I was still not sure about it and beating around the bush since I haven't actually done anything about it (apart from wearing girl jeans, which is not that worthwhile mentioning).
Now I feel both better and worse at the same time after coming out to her. At least I did something.
Anyway, the conclusion is that she does support me and is trying to help me the way she knows.
Oh darn, things are still not good. After going to the endocrinologist for my fatigue and doing certain tests for catecholamines he said he couldn't find anything and that, based on his opinion, "every test is perfect" - despite some being within limits but far from optimum. I told him I felt even worse with every passing week but he just dismissed it. On the 2nd - and last- session I also told him that the reason I'm so stressed is that I'm transgender and I'm having difficulties with my PhD, finding a job etc. He just referred me to a psychiatrist and hurried out of his office. I tried to insist that this wasn't enough and that I needed help not just on the gender issue but also regarding my fatigue. Instead of replying he hurried behind a door and disappeared. It's like he didn't want to bother trying to figure out what's wrong, despite being payed ~140 euros per session.
A couple of days after that I went to a rheumatologist to check if there is a possibility for a autoimmune disease and she prescribed a battery of tests, the results of which I'll have in a month.
Ideally I should live somewhere else, alone but it's very difficult trying to juggle both my PhD - part time projects, finding a job, dealing with my health problems and dealing with the negativity of my parents (telling me things like if I continue being angry like that, not trusting doctors etc, I'll end up in a psychiatric ward). For example my father insists on sitting with him reading endocrinology books while I'm pretty sure some of what he's reading doesn't apply to me. I know educating oneself is important but I can't stand reading with him.
I'm really afraid my fatigue is because of kidney problems. I want to some tests (like microalbumin/creatinine ratio - ACR) and estimated glomerular filtration rate-eGFR) to find out. My father tried to argue that these are pointless and can't help me but nevertheless I need to do them.
Ps. It's so disheartening when because of stress you've ended up with serious health problems and your parents still don't support you.
Quote from: kelly_1979 on May 10, 2019, 09:31:06 AM
Oh darn, things are still not good. After going to the endocrinologist for my fatigue and doing certain tests for catecholamines he said he couldn't find anything and that, based on his opinion, "every test is perfect" - despite some being within limits but far from optimum. I told him I felt even worse with every passing week but he just dismissed it. On the 2nd - and last- session I also told him that the reason I'm so stressed is that I'm transgender and I'm having difficulties with my PhD, finding a job etc. He just referred me to a psychiatrist and hurried out of his office. I tried to insist that this wasn't enough and that I needed help not just on the gender issue but also regarding my fatigue. Instead of replying he hurried behind a door and disappeared. It's like he didn't want to bother trying to figure out what's wrong, despite being payed ~140 euros per session.
A couple of days after that I went to a rheumatologist to check if there is a possibility for a autoimmune disease and she prescribed a battery of tests, the results of which I'll have in a month.
Ideally I should live somewhere else, alone but it's very difficult trying to juggle both my PhD - part time projects, finding a job, dealing with my health problems and dealing with the negativity of my parents (telling me things like if I continue being angry like that, not trusting doctors etc, I'll end up in a psychiatric ward). For example my father insists on sitting with him reading endocrinology books while I'm pretty sure some of what he's reading doesn't apply to me. I know educating oneself is important but I can't stand reading with him.
I'm really afraid my fatigue is because of kidney problems. I want to some tests (like microalbumin/creatinine ratio - ACR) and estimated glomerular filtration rate-eGFR) to find out. My father tried to argue that these are pointless and can't help me but nevertheless I need to do them.
Ps. It's so disheartening when because of stress you've ended up with serious health problems and your parents still don't support you.
Hi Kelly,
I can't remember but have you seen a psychiatrist before. If you found the right one, that's supportive of LGBT people, it may give you some of the help you need right now.
Hope things get better,
Paige 😊
@Paige . The last one I went to was adamant I need to fix my health problems first and take benzos and then ssris.
Quote from: kelly_1979 on May 10, 2019, 09:58:59 AM
@Paige . The last one I went to was adamant I need to fix my health problems first and take benzos and then ssris.
Hey Kelly,
I'm sure this will be your experience but I've been to numerous therapists and they all seem to do things differently. If you can, I would suggest going to a few to see if you can find the right one for you. Have you looked around for a therapist who specializes in transgender issues?
Take care,
Paige 😊