Ladies and Gentlemen
Occasionally on Susan's we see interactions that don't exactly make us shine and which, for me, bring into question whether, as a collective, or as the Susan's collective, we are any good at positive and consistent outreach.
Recently a thread was started by a cis guy who said that he'd met a trans woman at some public event, felt profoundly uncomfortable, and decided to learn more about transgender issues as a way to remove his ignorance. So far so good.... Well, we questioned his motives for being here, and then we got extremely tetchy about his use of the collective noun "guys" when replying to us. He made a mistake, but wow did we rub it in. And then he disappeared.
Notwithstanding that we come with certain fairly justifiable sensitivities, the question still remains whether we're both agreeable enough and sufficiently militant enough to represent ourselves, both on Susan's and to a wider socio-political world? It's all very nice to have a few ultra-public figures who feature as poster girls/boys, but what about a more rank-and-file organisation? Does such a thing exist, or more to the point, is it even possible for such a thing to exist? Certainly in my country everything transgender is a disaster of poor organisation. Also, since many of us wish to simply disappear once we're done with transition, is there any hope of our collective having the continuity that the LGB grouping has?
It would be interesting to know what your/our views are.
Unlike the other day's thread, I please ask that we keep this one civil, relevant, and on-track.
Regards
Julia
You've probably come across some of my views on this subject before, but I'm happy to post them here.
We're TERRIBLE at outreach. The fact that parts of this country are trying to get transguys to go to the ladies' and transwomen to go to the men's is a reflection on how miserably we've failed to explain who we are and why we do what we do.
Everyone in the world should understand the following:
* Being transgender is not a choice. It is biologically wired, probably before birth.
* It is painful and upsetting to live as the opposite gender.
* Being transgender typically doesn't go away if ignored. In many cases, it gets worse.
* No one has ever come up with a way other than transitioning, to consistently make transgender people comfortable with their gender identities.
* Transgender people are not psychologically disordered. Most are competent and intelligent, valuable as workplace professionals and family members.
* Jokes about transgender people or gender transition are offensive.
* Genital surgery is not a requirement or necessary component of gender transition. Those who do it don't "become" a man or women. It's done to make peace with our bodies.
The fact that so many people don't know any of this reflects on how badly we've done the job of raising awareness of our condition. We've outsourced it to the media, which get more wrong than they get right, and to a few celebrities whose agenda as educators conflicts with their need to increase readership and viewership.
A couple points. The population here is in constant flux, there really isn't a firm "we" around. Most people come here, learn, transition, and leave. Second, I think it is largely generational. While the older members remember a past that wasn't good, the younger ones dress how they want, join the LGBT group at school, and laugh at how we prattle on about how bad things are, when they're not. I don't believe a lot of us are paying attention to the fact that the world is different now. I think the education we want society to have has happened and we don't notice it.
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on February 26, 2015, 01:17:58 PM
While the older members remember a past that wasn't good, the younger ones dress how they want, join the LGBT group at school, and laugh at how we prattle on about how bad things are, when they're not. I don't believe a lot of us are paying attention to the fact that the world is different now. I think the education we want society to have has happened and we don't notice it.
Very very relevant points Devlyn Marie. So, a question then to the
people here below 30: please tell us your age and how you see this? How won is the battle? Where are we getting it wrong?
Edit: 2 posts turned up whilst I was typing so I'll add that I'm almost 40. & I agree that the older generation may be more negative due to growing up in a more difficult time
A simple answer to the question is no we're not good at outreach.
Often we've been kicked around so much by society that we're overly touchy, I committed this sin yesterday, I had valid points to make on a topic here but instead of my normal calm response I allowed my emotions to take over. It would be easy for me to blame it on the other persons post, it would be easy to blame it on me being months overdue for my t blocker but the reality was that I should have just walked away from the topic until I was able to word my response in a calm manner.
As Suzi said, jokes about being trans or transitioning are seen as offensive. This is a huge barrier to acceptance, comedy is a great way for people to accept us as human. In THAT family giuy episode about Quagmires father transitioning many comments on here were of people being very offended, I watched that episode with my ex and I had tears of laughter rolling down my cheeks, I was of the opinion that the true butt of the jokes in that episode was the intolerance. Seeing me laugh so hard made my ex see me in a different light, previously she though that me taking offence of people being rude in public was me being over touchy, she then changed her view that it's the intent to offend me that I was reacting to.
I had always told her to feel comfortable to laugh with me regarding my eczema not at me, the same goes for me being trans.
I hope I explained that well enough, I reworded it several times in an effort to be clear
Thank you Julia for addressing this subject. Regardless of what does or does not come of this discussion that you've begun, I love you for bringing it up!
As to how good or bad things are for trans people in 2015, I do not have a strong opinion. I have been boldly dealing with and coming to terms with my own transsexual nature for over 33 years and have managed to grow some very thick skin; I am not easily offended. What I would like to say is this:
I love and honor trans people! All of you. I don't think that we as a collective give ourselves nearly enough credit for how difficult it really is to come to terms with gender dysphoria in its many manifestations, and especially how very difficult it is to create and execute a plan for transition.
I believe that the incredible strain that we as individuals endure in this process has psychological and emotional ramifications that probably looks and feels a lot like post-traumatic stress disorder. In much the same way that a combat veteran coming home from battle can have a terrible time reintegrating into his old life and often behaves in ways that seem terrible and unexplainable to those who can't know what he has been through, I believe many trans people are struggling under the weight of unacknowledged and untreated PTSD.
I may be way off base here, but I'm beginning to feel that it is increasingly important for us as a collective to begin to understand and unravel the emotional/psychological consequences of what we experience and who we are in terms of how we see ourselves so that we can begin to make some peace within our own hearts. When we begin to make peace within, I believe that the real work of making peace with the wide world of cis-gender people (most of whom perhaps see us as an ominous mystery) will naturally follow.
Maybe
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on February 26, 2015, 01:25:37 PM
Very very relevant points Devlyn Marie. So, a question then to the people here below 30: please tell us your age and how you see this? How won is the battle? Where are we getting it wrong?
I'm 28, and I do tend to see things in a far more optimistic light than some when it comes to how accepting society is of trans people. Overall, I think things are looking very good for us right now, and I feel that they will continue improving rapidly. :)
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on February 26, 2015, 01:25:37 PM
Very very relevant points Devlyn Marie. So, a question then to the people here below 30: please tell us your age and how you see this? How won is the battle? Where are we getting it wrong?
I'm 23 and living in France, and I'm far less optimistic than Sunderland. Despite the fact that I have a natural tendancy to see the bright side of life, on the trans* subject I'm not that confident.
People here don't know a thing about trans* issues and more generally of what the word trans* implies, and the tiny bit they know or think they know doesn't go toward trans* acceptance. I was surprised to hit this wall of ignorance even with people I consider really smart, open minded, curious and who are about my age and living in a big city (Paris). My LGB friends are ignorants about it too .
Medias are not doing a good job at giving trans* visibility, and when they do, it's really just crap and misconceptions. So no, to me, the battle is far from won, and still need a good push, and far more visibility.
(I'm speaking for myself, and I do not mean that everyone is ignorant, it only reflects what i'm feeling :D)
OK, I'm almost 40.. And I'm pretty optimistic.. I find that people I interact with to be mostly respectful and accepting. I find the general population is more interested in their own lives to bother me.
As to whether we are any good at outreach as a collective? Sadly, no, not at all. Maybe when we can all agree on some basics, then we might be able to be effective.
Quote from: Miharu Barbie on February 26, 2015, 02:26:19 PM
Thank you Julia for addressing this subject. Regardless of what does or does not come of this discussion that you've begun, I love you for bringing it up!
I believe that the incredible strain that we as individuals endure in this process has psychological and emotional ramifications that probably looks and feels a lot like post-traumatic stress disorder. In much the same way that a combat veteran coming home from battle can have a terrible time reintegrating into his old life and often behaves in ways that seem terrible and unexplainable to those who can't know what he has been through, I believe many trans people are struggling under the weight of unacknowledged and untreated PTSD.
I may be way off base here, but I'm beginning to feel that it is increasingly important for us as a collective to begin to understand and unravel the emotional/psychological consequences of what we experience and who we are in terms of how we see ourselves so that we can begin to make some peace within our own hearts. When we begin to make peace within, I believe that the real work of making peace with the wide world of cis-gender people (most of whom perhaps see us as an ominous mystery) will naturally follow.
Maybe
Miharu, thank you! These are incredibly relevant points. I believe that many of our number are indeed dealing with something that could come close to PTSD, and with that there could be some truth in your statement about this being an obstacle to our dealing with the wider world.
I am going to make two statements. The first relates to a huge difficulty in getting cis people to empathise in a meaningful way with our situation. How many people know what it's like to live with the massive ongoing wrongness of how our bodies and social roles feel to us, to wake up every morning and think "Aaargh - another day of this wrong body." It's so very hard for people to understand how this feeling of ongoing wrongness feels, the sense of dread that it brings to many, and for this reason, it's very difficult for us to reach across this particular divide to obtain some degree of sympathetic treatment.
The other thing I'm going to postulate is that society, or at least the part of society that is in control and makes the rules, the male part, has a truly massive penis problem with us, and it's a problem that leaves us as being perceived as incredible freaks - I shall explain. Even worse, I think that this applies to trans men and trans women.
I have no doubt that cis men contemplating trans issues spend quite some time wondering what kind of weird equipment a trans man must have down there, and why anyone would get rid of a nice snug vagina. And in the case of trans women, cis men of hetero and homo orientations regard our need to be rid of a penis as totally the most utterly freaky messed up thing to do. Both of these, I believe, provoke a visceral rejection response in men, and possibly in a number of women too.
These two ideas make it extremely difficult for hostile groups to relate to us and vice versa, and for us to correctly convey who we are and why we're not freaks at all, just people trying to correct some extremely unusual problems. However, the onus is still on us to perform the outreach, and to try to do this in a way that allows people to understand our situations without producing a sense of revulsion. Truly I don't have an answer to the best approach, and I don't think there is any one approach but several, each strongly culturally dependent.
While I think that some type of formal outreach should exist, I think a lot more could be gained if each of us were an ambassador and educator. Yes, we saccrifice our passing, our stealthness, but in a one-to-one context, a lot of barriers can be broken down and bridges built. Of course we do have some challenges: in my experience in a large company, the women ask me questions, but not the men, and I suspect it's the "ick" factor and the penis thing. Hence it does make outreach much more difficult, as the door appears to be closed, even though it may possibly not be.
I don't know how much of this makes sense, but I'd welcome your comments.
xx
J
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on February 26, 2015, 05:19:53 PM
I am going to make two statements. The first relates to a huge difficulty in getting cis people to empathise in a meaningful way with our situation. How many people know what it's like to live with the massive ongoing wrongness of how our bodies and social roles feel to us, to wake up every morning and think "Aaargh - another day of this wrong body." It's so very hard for people to understand how this feeling of ongoing wrongness feels, the sense of dread that it brings to many, and for this reason, it's very difficult for us to reach across this particular divide to obtain some degree of sympathetic treatment.
I think it's the nature of our affliction that's a problem. A man who thought he was a frog, or a car, or a chair, or anything else he obviously wasn't, would rightly be labeled as delusional.
So when a male-bodied person declares he's a woman, or a female-bodied person declares herself a man, that would be most people's reaction. They would be wrong of course. We know that there really is something in a trans woman's brain that makes her female and in a trans man's brain that makes him male. But other people don't know that. To them, we do look delusional.
Does that make sense?
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on February 26, 2015, 01:25:37 PM
Very very relevant points Devlyn Marie. So, a question then to the people here below 30: please tell us your age and how you see this? How won is the battle? Where are we getting it wrong?
I am 29 and I have been around this site since I was 24, and in my view we aren't all that feat at outreach or understanding. So many people are so defensive, trying to fight battles with themselves against their own insecurities vicariously by attacking others for their own thoughts. This means fundamentally when outreach is tried with the cisgender population they seem to be attack for the simple fact of not understanding us, before they ever get a chance to understand us...
I think the political and social climate is improving, but as a community I think there is a long way to go to reach out to people who want to learn or want to understand, who want to overcome their prejudice or preconceptions.
I am not too positive on the trans community in general, i share one tiny facet of who I am with them collectively, but there is so much of me that isn't wrapped up around my identity as an MtF transwoman. That means I am just as likely to be totally different in my outlook and thoughts from another transwoman as I am a cisgender woman; I just don't feel a very strong sense of similarty in a generalized sense.
I think we get it wrong, but seeming to attempt to forge a community out of intrinsically dissimilar people, whereas I think looking at it more like a dissimilar coaaltion that isn't beholden to each other is a much more accurate outlook to have on what we are.
I'm 35 but most of my friends and co-workers are in their 20s, I'm quite optimistic about the future for trans rights, acceptance and such even with some minor setbacks here or there.
On the subject of the trans community, we tend to be disorganized, fractured and hypersensitive.
Again and again I see people bickering, big egos and conflict, here in Toronto we had 2 trans marches during the last pride due to big egos, on trans day of rememberance we had trans people protesting the raising of the trans flag at the Toronto town hall and calling other trans people racists and biggots on TV and radio.
Then there is bickering and mutual disrespect between people that self identify as "crossdressers' vs. those that identify as "transsexuals" for a lack of better words, calling each other crazy or worse.
But there are individuals among us which are shining examples and they tend to get a lot done :)
I don't think it's in any way exclusive to the trans community. It's just people being people. They all have different personalities, beliefs and perspectives. They're going to clash from time to time. I'd say we're no better or worse at outreach than any other group made of unique individuals would be.
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on February 26, 2015, 01:25:37 PM
Very very relevant points Devlyn Marie. So, a question then to the people here below 30: please tell us your age and how you see this? How won is the battle? Where are we getting it wrong?
Age 27.
Things are not ideal and a lot of work still needs to be done, but I am optimistic overall. In the last year, there's been much more trans* public figures in the US media (Cox, Monk, Carrera hmm... forget her name but the ex-Navy Seal MTF, ) that bring a more positive and educational light on trans people. There's also been much more discussion in the mainstream media about families letting children transition, communities are developing around support for families with trans kids transitioning. This wouldn't have been in the news 5 years ago, 10 years ago. . . at least at the consistency it is now. Also, on more liberal media (like Huffington Post) there's been many articles and commentaries regarding gender issues.
Also, in regular daily life, I've been seeing more openly trans* people around than I've seen in the last 5 years. I think the spotlight on Cox and other trans celebrities helps bring more understanding to cis viewers, and therefore gives some trans people more confidence to come out. Just within the last year or two, more of the cis people I know are finding out members of their extended families or friends are trans*.
To me, this shows that there's more confidence in trans people, and more discussion among cis people.
I am 52. I work in a hospital and we have a sexuality department (trans department) that is 2 years old and we are supporting 500 families in 3 states. I am going to a Grand Rounds where the medical staff are being informed (trained) on LGBTI by our Director of the Sexuality Department. We are in the process of converting 30 to 40 bathrooms to gender neutral. I am out to quite a few at work and have had only one person express bigotry and it was about woman and trans. He is learning and making excellent progress (influential position in the Enterprise). We chat about my progress and transition often. HR is wonderfully supportive and we have very good trans insurance coverage. The coverage was voted on by the Board of Directors and it passed (2 years ago). The board are made up of very influential people who are owners of large companies, such as a major telecommunications company in the USA.
When I came out to the Pride at work group I got two hugs from woman. I came out to a secretary at work today (I talk to her almost every day). She said she knew. She never treated me differently.
The more I expose myself at work the more surprised I am at the support or lack of an issue. Sort of either support or so what.
I am not below 30 but I see major change in the culture where I work. I have been there 27 years and I have seen a major positive culture change.
Well, I just turned 25, and take what I say with a grain of salt since I'm not out, not presenting, and have just barely started HRT.
Obviously, things are pretty terrible for transgender people right now. If you look at the statistics, studies, and stories out there, it is clear that reality is quite grim. However, I do think that most people around my age are far more accepting of gender variance, and I expect things to get significantly better as the years go on.
In terms of outreach, I don't think that we're doing a good job. Part of the problem with that is that, even if one wanted to become a trans rights activist, the majority of society does not know what transgender means. Educating people is difficult because the trans community is so diverse, and most people don't care or have the patience to learn the differences between the various subgroups. From what I've seen, there is no agreement at all even in the trans community on what it means to be transgender. The rough definition of transgender is someone who identifies with a spot on the gender spectrum (or gender circle) different from where they were assigned at birth, but when it comes to what that actually means, things get ugly fast. Even on this forum. And explaining that to cis people is even more problematic.
I think that the language of 'identifying' itself might be problematic too because it sort of implies that being transgender is a choice, like choosing to identify as a Republican/Democrat or something. We don't say that gay people identify as gay. We say that they are gay. But when it comes to trans people, we say that they identify as women/men/non-binary instead of that they are women/men/non-binary). The basic issue, in terms of education and how we discuss this issue, is that we need trans people to be seen as what they really are instead of just as identifying with what they are because simply identifying with it implies that they aren't it in actuality. It suggests that they are only associated with it. Being trans is an uncontrollable result of biology that is either genetic or epigenetic (or both), and the issue I think is that most people don't recognize that. Even in my high school health class, they told us that being gay is just a choice (and never mentioned transgender). It is very difficult to convince people though when the scientific literature on transgender and even homosexuality is so scant (and even then, a large chunk of this country doesn't care about science anyway).
What we should really be fighting for is that transgender education based on WPATH, the AMA, and other authorities be mandatory as part of the curriculum in high school health classes. Unfortunately, the curriculum for these classes are usually controlled by social conservatives, which is why I was told in high school that evolution is 'just a theory', being gay is 'just a choice', to practice abstinence, that sex/masturbation more than 4 times per month damages your sex organs, and a bunch of other nonsense.
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on February 26, 2015, 01:25:37 PM
Very very relevant points Devlyn Marie. So, a question then to the people here below 30: please tell us your age and how you see this? How won is the battle? Where are we getting it wrong?
I'm 24, started transition at 20 and no we're still far from winning and yeah we're still getting it wrong but things are moving in the right direction thankfully.
For starters there's still too much infighting in our own community which is a huge issue for us since there aren't many of us to begin with in comparison to every other community that's fought for rights. If we want things to progress faster and better we need to educate and break down the language to simple terms. The biggest issue I see are cis people being confused at to what means what for them. Our language and terms can be really confusing even to us. For example look at how the word transgender can mean two different things once being the medical and full transition or an umbrella term that covers all genders and its expressions.
Also how everyone in our community personally identifies and views transition, adds to the trouble of educating society about us. There's not really one fixed answer. For example I personally don't see transition as a life long process but as a series of crucial medical & legal steps that I need to take for myself so I can live and be myself. Once those steps are completed my transition is done and over. From that point on I don't the trans label fits me very well anymore. I think that right there is a mentality a lot of us younger transitioners have since many of us don't have careers, reputations, our own families, etc when we transition where as the older trans folk do. I started transition at an age where I didn't really have much to my name or let alone an identity to speak of so there was nothing before honestly. I can't speak for all young transitioners but I see this type of thought process a lot within my age group.
So if we can band together as a community and stop the pettiness than yeah we can do some great things in the next 10 years. I agree that education needs to start in public schools but I'd say it has to be as early as middle school though, the younger they are the better they will grasp the information without bias. Its really up to the coming generations to make the changes necessary at the social level. We're never gonna change the mind of the old school. My generation is the first to accept the trans community more so than the one that came before it but there's still plenty of people who against us. What's important is that we need to start making our local governments hear us. There needs to be more action than just words. I plan on going into activism at some point in the near future to help in my own way :)
Too many trans kids are dying cause of unsupportive families and communities. I think that issue right there needs to be addressed asap. There needs to be some sort of national media attention towards parents of trans children. Like some sort of government funded media campaign that goes across the nation. I'd say the president should address the nation about this crisis of no support thats happening in hundreds of American homes and around the world. The same applies to trans women of color being murdered an alarming rate. Seven of us have already been murdered in 2015..And yet no national outcry.
Mara and Lady Oracle, I think your points are extremely valid.
In some countries where education is perhaps governed less by ideology, some early education in WPATH principles, or just a sympathetic treatment of gender and orientation difference, might be a very good starting point.
The main issue I see is that enlightened teachers may be accused of "turning" someone gay or transgender, when what they've actually done is open a door and equip someone with the vocabluary to talk about their internal state. But this is a different thing to outreach as such.
Thank you everyone for your intelligent and thoughtful debate. :D :D
My conclusions are therefore that, while some limited formal outreach does exist, we may still be very much hitching a ride on the LGB movement's train, rather than building our own. Any ongoing outreach is therefore a combination of personal one-on-one education (@Cynthia Michelle, @ForceMustang), a limited formal presence, and the goodwill of LGB groups and a scattering of enlightened educators and lawmakers.
I am, however, optimistic that general social attitudes do seem to be changing for younger generations which seem to be much more accepting of gender and orientation fluidity. It's not a case of us being "next in line", but rather that we're part of an ongoing process with its ups and downs. There will be casualties, as terrible as it is: parental or in-the-street violence against straight kids is sadly common, before we even talk about violence towards gay or trans kids and adults.
Let's get out there and do our bit!
Hugs to y'all / Bisous / Besos
Julia
Why do we have to be a collective?? Any time I have lived with the knowledge that other people know my past I simply showed them that I am a good trustable person. That's outreach when people have never met a TS person to a point where they feel comfortable around a TS person. I call that a win-win. I think that winning over the hearts and minds of the world, short of having a martyr, is not going to happen any time soon, maybe not for the next thousand years.
Also consider that some of us, myself included, don't feel the need to wear the TG thing on our sleeves every day. I did my thing, completed my transition and now I just want to live my life. If the benefit of my experience is of any help to someone behind me, then I am more than happy to help.
We have more than enough martyrs already. Outreach is living, not dying. I had intended to be entirely open, but just now I'm more than a little frightened. I hope I get over that soon.
One of my earliest posts included "Dee is wise and brave and kind."
Time to remind myself of that. I was born a woman, I'll die a woman, whether I look like one or not. I'm proud of myself, I'm proud of my struggles, I'm proud to be trans.
Whew! Much better.
From Independence Day:
"...will once again be fighting for our freedom... Not from tyranny, oppression, or persecution... but from annihilation. We are fighting for our right to live. To exist. ..."We will not go quietly into the night!" We will not vanish without a fight! We're going to live on! We're going to survive! Today we celebrate our Independence Day! "
Nuts! Made myself cry.
I think we've definitely made a lot of progress. Today we are talking about OITNB and Transparent where trans women are highlighted positively and our struggles are being documented. Even a few years ago we had Ugly Betty where Alexis Meade was portrayed more or less as a normal character, but she did have a few issues (such as her son which she has pre transition). Compare that to years ago when we were talking about Mrs Doubtfire. Part of it is the whole LGBT movement but the other part of it is transgender people living just normal lives. Sure, you still have a few who make it into a circus show (such as the former athlete whose name will not be mentioned) but for the most part, trans people are gaining positive press.
One more telling thing is that the negative press about trans people seems to be about oppression against us, such as Leelah Alcorn's suicide.
Another thing is that we now have prominent trans women who lived stealth living out in the open - Lynn Conway and Janet Mock, for example.
As for younger transitioners, the scenario that Devlyn envisioned happens, but you also see where their ignorant parents send them to bible camp to attempt to "cure" them, or even worse, engage in violence against them. So it's not easy either way but once the parental hurdle is gone, transition is a breeze.
Quote from: Zumbagirl on February 27, 2015, 09:55:40 AM
Why do we have to be a collective??
One voice is easy to drown out. A hundred thousand voices, not so much.
As long as I'm not included as part of the collective. I did my thing and now I just want to live my life in peace. I just don't want to forced to pick a side.
Quote from: Zumbagirl on February 27, 2015, 09:55:40 AM
Why do we have to be a collective??
I suppose that the simple answer to your question is that we are a collective because we share common interests. It's easy to overlook this reality because societal attitudes towards us have softened over the years. It's easy to fool ourselves into believing that we aren't affected as individuals by the shifting attitudes and laws of decades gone by, and that we therefore stand alone and do not need anything from anyone.
When I first came out as a trans woman in 1984, a group of men attempted to kill me and I had to flee for my life because I could not get anyone in law enforcement to take me seriously in Central Texas at that time. In 1985 I spent one year on hormones; you would not believe how difficult it was to find a doctor willing to prescribe the medication to me back then. I had to leave the state of Texas and move to California just to find a doctor willing to treat me. When I finally went full time in 1998, it was easier to get my hands on estrogen than it had been in 1985, but I still found myself dealing with a crooked doctor who basically sold me prescriptions without any exams or follow up care.
In 2015 everything has changed for the better. For us all. Collectively.
If in 2020 malpractice insurance carriers were to decide that surgeons who perform GRS procedures will no longer be able to get coverage, who will stand up for us? If the FDA were to decide that estrogen and testosterone medications are no longer approved for transgender therapy purposes, who will stand up for us? If national identity cards ever become a requirement and it was decided that the gender marker may never be altered, who will stand up for us?
I realize that these examples are far-fetched. (Though perhaps not so very far removed from the change in availability of services to trans people that I myself have witnessed over the past 35 years.) I'm really just trying to illustrate a point. That point being that we are a collective because the cultural and legal changes that have made life easier for all trans people over the past several decades affect us all for good or ill, even as future changes to come may very well affect us all for good or ill. And that's what makes us a collective.
At least, I think it does.
QuoteOne voice is easy to drown out. A hundred thousand voices, not so much.
Exactly. There is, or rather used to be, this rather quaint concept called "solidarity." In a nutshell, it's the idea that there is strength in numbers for people who haven't much power as individuals, and that because our oppression gives us so much in common, we ought not to let our differences drive us apart.
The folks in power know this very well, which is why the strategy of "divide and conquer" has been effective throughout modern history. It's also very hard to put solidarity into practice because ego and the general level of rage against the system makes it satisfying, in the sort term, to attack each other, and the people who tend to be attacked from within tend to be the ones who are visibly accomplishing things -- and are seen as claiming too much power, being elitists, and so on.
Look how much time we spend arguing among ourselves when we could be coming up with concrete plans for action.
BTW, apologies if I left out trans men and non-binary in my last post.
Unfortunately I haven't really seen the same sort of thing for trans men, which is kind of disappointing.
And non-binary tends to be treated badly outside the genderqueer community, which is pretty sad.
Zumbagirl, I was wondering how long it would take for someone to make the point you did. I considered making it as part of the argument in my introductory post, but decided against it.
And the point is entirely valid. Gay people are generally gay for life (let's make this simplification for now), and hence I postulate that for many the struggle continues forever. But we are in transition, and when we reach our goal (another simplification) we simply want to disappear and live our lives in our target gender. As such, it seems to me that standard bearers and continuity are near impossible to attain, because a "successful" transgender person becomes invisible once he or she has transitioned. I myself have the "educate or disappear" dilemma: I could vanish right now, quite successfully, but I feel a need to remain visible and contribute to reducing ignorance of transgender issues.
Julia, just a gentle reminder that most transgender people are not transitioning. Transsexuals are only a small portion of the transgender landscape.
Hugs, Devlyn
Late 30s here. I've been in and around trans* communities in some form or fashion off and on for about 15-20 years.
I think it would be inappropriate for me to comment on the site as to its outreach. I really don't even know how to begin thinking about an answer to the question because I'm not sure how to apply the concept of outreach to this site.
As to trans* people as a whole, I think we are like any group of people. Some of us are great at outreach. Some stink at it.
In the ordinary-person-not-doing-any-sort-of-work-on-the-issue part of the community, I don't think any outreach happens. Those individuals tend to--for very good reason--live by hiding in plain sight. Those who do not pass also seem to be very hidden and secretive. There are some interesting stats on the degree to which many trans* people stay holed up in their homes and just don't go anywhere for fear of harassment.
One might suspect that such persons are doing no outreach at all. And there's a lot of truth to that. But it's not quite zero. Those individuals can still do things like provide an insightful comment about an article on the Internet or be a "knowledgeable ally" in the workplace. You'd be amazed at how often I comment on advocate.com, for example. And I always seem to get two or three responses from trans* people thanKing me for being such a great ally. Likewise, when I educate people face to face, I do so from a position of great knowledge, but using the pronoun "they" instead of "we." (In fairness, I sometimes use "they" for other collectives to which I belong too). So far I have not had a problem with that approach outing me. Some other people who aren't out do that too. Some are too scared. Those who do those little things are contributing to outreach in small ways. And small ways matter.
Then there is our activist community. I reject the idea that everyone has any duty to be out or to be educating the public. Doing that is my job and the job of others who have taken on that activist role. Not the job of John or Jane Doe trans* person on the street.
Where I live, the two major "names" in trans* activism are myself and Dana Beyer, whom you may know of. I'm known to some as the anti-Dana because of how polar opposite we are. When we do outreach and deal with the public, we are very radically different in how we do it. But is one of us "better" at outreach? I doubt it. Dana will educate you about one thing and I'll educate you about something totally different. But whichever one of us you meet, you're going to come away understanding more, being less ignorant, and being less hostile to trans* people.
I think the portion of our population that spends time going out and educating is actually pretty good at it by and large. Like Dana and me, their approaches may be totally opposite from one another, but there are a lot of them that really work. But the number of people doing this is far too small to meet the need for education. That's not a sign of being bad at outreach. It's a sign of how much work needs doing and how few are willing to do it. But that's normal in a movement, especially one as young as the trans* movement.
So if there are any aspiring activists among our group, they should know that I do take apprentices and if you come hang and work with me, you will end up in interesting places. So get in touch if you're local and I will put you to work. :)
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on February 27, 2015, 05:58:00 PM
Zumbagirl, I was wondering how long it would take for someone to make the point you did. I considered making it as part of the argument in my introductory post, but decided against it.
And the point is entirely valid. Gay people are generally gay for life (let's make this simplification for now), and hence I postulate that for many the struggle continues forever. But we are in transition, and when we reach our goal (another simplification) we simply want to disappear and live our lives in our target gender. As such, it seems to me that standard bearers and continuity are near impossible to attain, because a "successful" transgender person becomes invisible once he or she has transitioned. I myself have the "educate or disappear" dilemma: I could vanish right now, quite successfully, but I feel a need to remain visible and contribute to reducing ignorance of transgender issues.
What can you hope to accomplish by educating though? Educate whom? about what? You can only tell the story of what it was like to have both boy bits and girl bits so many times until it's not just worth rehashing. The rest of the human species obsesses about genitals. Getting a message out when all anyone wants to talk about is SRS isn't educating, it's just an exercise in frustration. Plus once words are said, they can never be un-"said". What I try to tell people is to try disappearing first. If fitting in with your new sex isn't good enough then come forward and be counted. But realize this. Your life and experience will be invalidated by many many people by being out. I made my transition to right a wrong of my life, not to serve as an educational puppet. I wanted to live in the world with the rest of female-kind and I do.
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on February 27, 2015, 05:58:00 PM
I myself have the "educate or disappear" dilemma: I could vanish right now, quite successfully, but I feel a need to remain visible and contribute to reducing ignorance of transgender issues.
I wonder this as well, why am I here on this site? First six years of my transition, I lived relatively quietly and without issue. But there is a desire to maybe share experiences.
My only disappointment with this site is when you do mention a life experience, it is shot down. I feel the need to preface comments with "this is my experience..."
I've been on Susan's for about a month, and unsure how long I'll stay, but I feel there is one nugget of wisdom to impart. Oh hell, what do I know....I'm just a 50 year old who figured it out ;)
Quote from: Zumbagirl on March 01, 2015, 06:33:25 AM
What can you hope to accomplish by educating though? Educate whom? about what?
Do you think most people know that transgender people are wired to do what we do? That we're not just doing this for thrills, like snowboarders or skydivers? That most people really understand what gender dysphoria is and how it motivates us? That in all other ways we are normal, intelligent competent people?
If people don't know these things, we're going to be treated accordingly. Laws will be made accordingly and social norms will develop accordingly.
If people don't understand us, that even those that try to provide support will
get it wrong.
And unless we educate people, there is no chance they will understand us.
Quote from: suzifrommd on March 01, 2015, 08:52:41 AM
Do you think most people know that transgender people are wired to do what we do? That we're not just doing this for thrills, like snowboarders or skydivers? That most people really understand what gender dysphoria is and how it motivates us? That in all other ways we are normal, intelligent competent people?
If people don't know these things, we're going to be treated accordingly. Laws will be made accordingly and social norms will develop accordingly.
If people don't understand us, that even those that try to provide support will get it wrong.
And unless we educate people, there is no chance they will understand us.
What exactly do you want to say though? If you are looking for society to validate our own self-perception is may take a long long time, perhaps never. I know if it's frustrating to me to see people invalidate our very existence and say we are just mental cases, and yet I am supposed to accept their silly religious arguments over how many angels fit on the head of a pin. We live in one damn crazy world and some times I do question just exactly how many steps of evolution we really are from chimpanzees.
Quote from: Zumbagirl on March 01, 2015, 09:44:28 AM
What exactly do you want to say though?
I think laws, policies, and social norms would be a lot kinder to us if the people constructing them (including voters, customers, etc.) understood a few basic facts about us:
Quote from: suzifrommd on February 26, 2015, 12:30:22 PM
Everyone in the world should understand the following:
* Being transgender is not a choice. It is biologically wired, probably before birth.
* It is painful and upsetting to live as the opposite gender.
* Being transgender typically doesn't go away if ignored. In many cases, it gets worse.
* No one has ever come up with a way other than transitioning, to consistently make transgender people comfortable with their gender identities.
* Transgender people are not psychologically disordered. Most are competent and intelligent, valuable as workplace professionals and family members.
* Jokes about transgender people or gender transition are offensive.
* Genital surgery is not a requirement or necessary component of gender transition. Those who do it don't "become" a man or women. It's done to make peace with our bodies.
I'm 66. Came out as a crossdresser nearly ten years ago. A short time later, I discovered that I am transgender. Outreach is something that is not everybody's strength and no one should be forced to do something that they choose not to do.
There was a time when outreach was practically non-existent for trans people. It's gotten better and more needs to be done. I'm optimistic because I've seen numerous changes for the better in my ten years of being out. I have spoken to groups on a few occasions. I have pointed out that there are many expressions of gender. That's what helped me during my questioning phase. Second point I made is that not every transgender person wants to transition. People who are non trans want to understand but they are jumped on because they make a mistake on a name then their viewpoint of us is tainted.
It does take time and the effort needs to be continued. I live life not as a victim but as someone who loves being who she is.
Quote from: Muffinheart on March 01, 2015, 07:38:06 AM
I've been on Susan's for about a month, and unsure how long I'll stay, but I feel there is one nugget of wisdom to impart. Oh hell, what do I know....I'm just a 50 year old who figured it out ;)
Two points, please stay around and 50!! Are you for serious. You don't look anywhere near that milestone
Quote from: Jayne on March 01, 2015, 02:52:58 PM
Two points, please stay around and 50!! Are you for serious. You don't look anywhere near that milestone
Lol...Yep...turned 50 two weeks ago. Already got my ball of yarn, cup of tea, and saying "I rememebr when I was young" a lot lol ;)
And ty, very kind of you to say
Quote from: Muffinheart on March 01, 2015, 03:26:35 PM
Lol...Yep...turned 50 two weeks ago. Already got my ball of yarn, cup of tea, and saying "I rememebr when I was young" a lot lol ;)
And ty, very kind of you to say
If you're anything like me you'll take great satisfaction in warning strangers, children, and wild animals away from the asparagus patch! :laugh:
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: suzifrommd on March 01, 2015, 08:52:41 AM
And unless we educate people, there is no chance they will understand us.
This +2 (my dog also agrees)
Not everybody wants the role or responsibility of educating the world around them and I'm fine with that, for what it's worth I believe in the motto "if you don't create the world you want to live in then others will do it for you"
Quote from: Muffinheart on March 01, 2015, 03:26:35 PM
Lol...Yep...turned 50 two weeks ago. Already got my ball of yarn, cup of tea, and saying "I rememebr when I was young" a lot lol ;)
And ty, very kind of you to say
Sarah,
Please stay. As a person who's only come to terms with being TG and looking at beginning my path, having you here really helps.
I live in a community, where I'm the only trans person I see on a regular basis. I know that there are others, I hear about them from time to time. I've even been on a jury with one lady. But out of respect, I didn't even out myself to her. I know that she was having a hard time as well, as she was underemployed.
My community has problems keeping regular primary care physicians. Getting gender specialists even a hundred miles away is going to be down right impossible. My therapist will be moving, and she's tried to find another, but there is no one else here. So, I'll have to drive an additional 40 miles one way.
As for activism, I know everyone is different. In my case, I'll be looking to add acceptance, and a bit of understanding to my world. I'm also looking to restart a local PFLAG chapter that stopped because key participants just stop attending, and it went dormant. I've already got a busy life... I don't know how I'm going to fit this in, but I really need something. I'm all for changing minds, one at a time.
-Alana