About 4 years ago my [relatively] smooth skin was quite badly damaged by over-aggressive electrolysis. The result after 50 hours of treatment was the following:
- Dimpled, orange-peel effect on the chin,
- Deep cracks leading from the edge of the mouth
- Smoker's lines on the upper lip
Just wondering if anyone else out there has had any success dealing with the results of bad electrolysis? A couple of surgeons I have talked with have suggested that a facial peel might help, but I get the impression that they don't really know much about this type of problem.
I still have more electrolysis to be performed as there are a lot of grey hairs left. At least 50-100 hours maybe. So I am assuming that any treatment will have to wait until this process has been completed?
Many thanks for any suggestions!
I believe there is a process called laser skin resurfacing which can smooth out your skin. I have no experience with it though. I have just heard about it. There may be other treatment like peels and rolling.
Thanks for the suggestion Kate. Yes, laser skin resurfacing and peels sound like the main options available. I'm finding it particularly hard to determine how well these techniques work when applied to electrolysis related problems rather than general aging. Very limited information on the internet and not all of it positive. Orange peel skin in particular seems to be a problem.
Hugs, Pandora
As long as you do not have much blow outs then most of the skin can help from a chemical peal at the end of the electrolysis.
When you can stay clear through a year with out needed more electrolysis.
This also give time for the skin to heal as much on it own.
Blow outs are hard to fix. Those do improve with time but will always show signs.
Price we pay.
Quote from: mrs izzy on March 11, 2015, 03:22:31 PM
As long as you do not have much blow outs then most of the skin can help from a chemical peal at the end of the electrolysis.
When you can stay clear through a year with out needed more electrolysis.
This also give time for the skin to heal as much on it own.
Blow outs are hard to fix. Those do improve with time but will always show signs.
Price we pay.
What is a blow out?
Blow out is when there is to high current and a heavy lye action. (over burns the root)
Causes the skin to blow out due to the steam pressure.
Makes a instant pot hole.
If you scab over from the electrolysis then most likely there are blow outs to a degree.
Quote from: mrs izzy on March 11, 2015, 03:33:43 PM
Blow out is when there is to high current and a heavy lye action. (over burns the root)
Causes the skin to blow out due to the steam pressure.
Makes a instant pot hole.
Oh dear, this is what I feared. I think the orange peel / golf ball effect on my chin may be the result of blow outs :( . Certainly got quite a few explosive pops going on during the electrolysis albeit without any obvious scabbing. If this is not fixable am hoping then at least the lines may be amenable to treatment.
OMG...a blowout sounds painful, even more than electrolysis itself!
Rushing a clearing.
Happens more with lesser experienced techs.
Not high and fast is always the answer.
One of our friends who recently left Susans did a deep chemical peel with Dr Bart. It required preparation to be started at least a week in advance, and it looked nasty for around 10 days after the peel was applied. The results are excellent, but the skin is pink for some time afterwards.
(Waves)
OK so I came across something important and putting this out there because I'm also undergoing electrolysis at the moment to clean up white hairs.
Have any of you read the stuff on this site?
http://hairzapper.com/horror-stories/
And interesting excerpt from here:
http://hairzapper.com/thermolysis/
Primarily meant for the removal of sparse or light hair
"Generally, the original intent of thermolysis was to remove a few sparse hairs or an upper lip of peach fuzz. Both St Pierre and Arthur Hinkle warned against the use of Flash Thermolysis for the purpose of removing coarse deep terminal hair such as beards. *sigh* Not many people have read their work prior to wrecking the complexion of some poor client. And yet the transgender community continually insists on this kind of work be done on them. Purveyors are not difficult to be found, either. Some of the greatest amounts of misinformation seem to come from afficianados of the "quick & dirty" school of hairkill."
Also note the illustration - "Illustration of how skin damage in Thermolysis (RF) occurs"
The above and referenced site is one electrolysis' opinion. However maybe they have a legitimate point? Thoughts?
Sounds like I've had a few blow outs then. She used thermolysis, not galvanic.
I'm doing laser now. I see some small pits from previous electrolysis but it is noticeable only if you look closely.
Check out this guys reaction from electrolysis over treatment.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.tinypic.com%2F33ae7bl.jpg&hash=cc30adf942279874dcd80af2d54b3c761ebe09ba)
Ouch!
Quote from: ImagineKate on March 11, 2015, 10:11:29 PM
Sounds like I've had a few blow outs then. She used thermolysis, not galvanic.
I'm doing laser now. I see some small pits from previous electrolysis but it is noticeable only if you look closely.
BTW, has anyone here experienced truly permanent hair elimination from laser treatments even after years on out?
Quote from: Evelyn K on March 11, 2015, 11:00:40 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on March 11, 2015, 10:11:29 PM
Sounds like I've had a few blow outs then. She used thermolysis, not galvanic.
I'm doing laser now. I see some small pits from previous electrolysis but it is noticeable only if you look closely.
BTW, has anyone here experienced truly permanent hair elimination from laser treatments even after years on out?
Nope for the simple short answer.
Electrolysis is a art forum in its own.
Not everyone respects the art.
Quote from: mrs izzy on March 11, 2015, 11:39:19 PM
BTW, has anyone here experienced truly permanent hair elimination from laser treatments even after years on out?
Nope for the simple short answer.
Interesting. I've had 10 sessions (last 3 where max) and my face is clear. At least it seems like it....
But, if I take for instance, a USB microscope up close to the skin, then alas, it's not as clear as I'd like to think
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi61.tinypic.com%2Fw8thfa.jpg&hash=1b3e82610d952afc65d6945a8118c0b0c79b0301)
=\
Bummer I KNEW there was just the slightest hint of a shadow from *somewhere*. Now I know where...
Not all hair are growing,
Not all hair are in the growth cycle but dormant.
Not all hair are equal.
^^ Yeah I figure that's parts of it. But what irks me is I don't think that's what we're seeing here. "laser hair removal" isn't warranted "permanent" FDA approval status for this reason and I'm proof positive with closer inspection.
"Laser High tendency for re-growth
Then there is the issue of regrowth. It is commonly known (or is it?) that laser electrolysis works on a long term basis in about 1 out of 50 cases. For every wonderful tale of one visit and it is gone, there are a bunch of people out there who have been sapped of a great deal of money and no way to even get so much as a cent back. They have been duped into believing that a miracle is going to occur with a process that cannot even be allowed to claim "permanent"."
http://hairzapper.com/laser/
Laser is only approved for Permanent reduction.
Electrolysis is for Permanent removal.
See the difference. but most get hung up on the Permanent part.
I've tried pretty much everything now. It's multi-probe galvanic or nothing for me now.
I had flash thermo done by a hack once. She got a lot of them, but my face looked like hamburger for months afterward. Never again.
Laser was good to get me going full time early on, but there really was a lot of regrowth. I don't see me going back for more.
Hey Jill whoah I see you movin up around these parts! ;D
BTW how many hairs would you say your technician is successfully pulling an hour using multiprobe? Do you know if the pain is less intense than thermolysis?
As for the hack I think I have one myself. My technician doesn't even pull the hair from the follicle, she says, "once it's zapped it's dead the hair will fall out later."
After 2 weeks of recovering from the scab over, - they did not fall out. They just look thinner. What a waste.
Time to find a new place.
Quote from: Evelyn K on March 12, 2015, 12:29:39 AM
Hey Jill whoah I see you movin up around these parts! ;D
BTW how many hairs would you say your technician is successfully pulling an hour using multiprobe? Do you know if the pain is less intense than thermolysis?
As for the hack I think I have one myself. My technician doesn't even pull the hair from the follicle, she says, "once it's zapped it's dead the hair will fall out later."
After 2 weeks of recovering from the scab over, - they did not fall out. They just look thinner. What a waste.
Time to find a new place.
It's time to run away screaming. If you don't pull the dead hair, you risk an abscess. I
currently typically get about 175 hairs yanked per hour. (Sorry for the bad electro pun.)
Quote from: Evelyn K on March 11, 2015, 11:00:40 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on March 11, 2015, 10:11:29 PM
Sounds like I've had a few blow outs then. She used thermolysis, not galvanic.
I'm doing laser now. I see some small pits from previous electrolysis but it is noticeable only if you look closely.
BTW, has anyone here experienced truly permanent hair elimination from laser treatments even after years on out?
3 years so far!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOouTESVSlU
I wonder what method is being used here. The hair just slides right out and there is no swelling or reddening. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi60.tinypic.com%2F2me9ua1.jpg&hash=6ebf5b1927b0ad85e889fafa706d8b16e234d9c1)
Wow so I just learned depending on the type of probes used will mitigate the pain and hair removal efficiency. Cheaper probes are not insulated and will hurt like hell because it's applying charge to the entire follicle and damaging surrounding tissue needlessly, other probes are insulted and domed and some are flexible with only the bare tip applying charge deep into the dermal papillae only.
Example
http://www.laurierinstruments.com/index.html
Then there's a high-end place in NYC that is expensive as heck but they guarantee painless and scheduled complete electrolysis hair removal with their patented "LP" system. Get ready to spend $10K! :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6tHQIHvzoM
Thank you everyone for all the input. Hair removal is a b***h :icon_sadblinky: .
I have been wondering if I should be switching from Thermolysis to the Blend approach in order to reduce the possibility of further damage. However, I wasn't sure if the blend was any safer in that respect. Does anyone have a good a view on this after trying both methods?
The funny thing about laser is that I started with IPL before electrolysis when I had about 50/50 dark and grey hairs. This was with the electrologist who subsequently damaged my face. Although there may have been some reduction (or dark hairs turning grey!) most of the dark hairs returned after a few months. Which is why I switched to electrolysis thinking laser was a crock. After all the damage from this I had laser rejuvenation with VPL at a different clinic to try and fix the problem plus a few hours of ruby laser. The treatment didn't fix the damage but cleared all the remaining dark hairs! How ironic! 4 Years later and the regrowth is minimal (so far). So it just goes to show that different types of laser and the skill of the practitioner is just as much a factor as for electrolysis. Also, it is a very inexact science. Wish now I'd tried different types of laser treatment first before giving up and going for the electrolysis.
Overall, it sounds like a deep peel may be of benefit in repairing some of the wrinkle damage. Does anyone else out there have experience with this, other types of peel, or laser abrasion?
Hugs, Pandora
Quote from: Evelyn K on March 11, 2015, 11:00:40 PM
BTW, has anyone here experienced truly permanent hair elimination from laser treatments even after years on out?
Here is the thing though. Laser is supposedly photo thermolysis. The electrologist I go to for electrolysis uses thermolysis with a probe and RF. So one is done with light and one is done with radio waves. They both supposedly destroy the follicle. Why would one be permanent and not the other?
Can a person still get 'blowouts' even from galvanic electrolysis?
I had laser done to the beard/neck area 13 times...after two years, there's still heavy reduction of the dark hairs (which is what causes "shadow", I believe). I'd say about 20% is still there, mostly greys. I can go for 2-3 days without shaving and not have visible stubble.
I've also had 6 Brazilian sessions in the same time frame (~2+ years ago) all dark hairs down there, and about half the population is still gone.
Just fyi, my experiences.
Quote from: Pandora on March 12, 2015, 06:51:58 AM
Thank you everyone for all the input. Hair removal is a b***h :icon_sadblinky: .
I have been wondering if I should be switching from Thermolysis to the Blend approach in order to reduce the possibility of further damage. However, I wasn't sure if the blend was any safer in that respect. Does anyone have a good a view on this after trying both methods?
The funny thing about laser is that I started with IPL before electrolysis when I had about 50/50 dark and grey hairs. This was with the electrologist who subsequently damaged my face. Although there may have been some reduction (or dark hairs turning grey!) most of the dark hairs returned after a few months. Which is why I switched to electrolysis thinking laser was a crock. After all the damage from this I had laser rejuvenation with VPL at a different clinic to try and fix the problem plus a few hours of ruby laser. The treatment didn't fix the damage but cleared all the remaining dark hairs! How ironic! 4 Years later and the regrowth is minimal (so far). So it just goes to show that different types of laser and the skill of the practitioner is just as much a factor as for electrolysis. Also, it is a very inexact science. Wish now I'd tried different types of laser treatment first before giving up and going for the electrolysis.
Overall, it sounds like a deep peel may be of benefit in repairing some of the wrinkle damage. Does anyone else out there have experience with this, other types of peel, or laser abrasion?
Hugs, Pandora
Can try reading what this electrologist recommends.
http://hairzapper.com/blend/
"Blend is complex for operators to use and all too often, this process is badly set up and skin damage is often the result. The primary difficulty is the determination of how much thermolysis produces coagulation and not desiccation."
Quote from: ImagineKate on March 12, 2015, 07:15:38 AM
Here is the thing though. Laser is supposedly photo thermolysis. The electrologist I go to for electrolysis uses thermolysis with a probe and RF. So one is done with light and one is done with radio waves. They both supposedly destroy the follicle. Why would one be permanent and not the other?
Here's one electrologists explanation on laser and its problems. For what it's worth.
http://hairzapper.com/laser/
"Depth of treated hair might also play a role, Dr. Willey says. In this regard, she says light sources may not penetrate sufficiently to adequately injure deeply growing anagen hairs in some areas. However, the study data didn't prove or disprove this hypothesis, she notes.
Dr. Willey adds that in the review, terminal hair growth occurred most frequently in the low maxillary or "beard" area, as well as the neck, lateral cheeks and chin areas."
"Generally what happens (as with most flash thermolysis, too) is that the hair is simply bombed back to the stone age, but it will one day rebuild and return. Lately, judging by the work that is turning up for me, it seems that it takes about 2 years for the hairs to re-appear. The funny thing...well, not so funny after all...is that it seems that laser resets nearly ALL the hair to "zero" where it remains dormant. Judging by three noticeable cases that I have worked on, it then makes its re-appearance all at once."
Thanks.
However I would take what an electrologist says about laser with a grain of salt as it cuts into their business.
One thing that has me suspicious is that they report about the incident where a black woman had her face burned from laser. While it is true that laser can burn a dark skinned person's face, this is why there are now advanced lasers like the Nd:YAG which is designed specifically for dark skin types. I had one treatment with the YAG and I'm going for another today. It was actually quite good. That said I may still need electrolysis when all is said and done.
As for hair being bombed back to the stone age, well, wouldn't that be desirable for us? I mean, if we are left with peach fuzz isn't that a desirable result?
^^ Yeah I get that too her "techy-science" could be biased. :D
I'm really here now because I'm pissed off about a recent electro session under my palate that took three weeks to heal from over treatment. Luckily I'm OK. This thread is right on time.
And there's this word from her about what it really takes for any schmuck to setup shop for hair removal which for the most part isn't surprising.
http://hairzapper.com/laser/#training
Finding a competent technician is going to be hard and undoubtedly much more expensive since the better and painless treatments are patented I.E. LP System mentioned above.
I think that no matter how competent the tech is that there will be some pitting with flash thermolysis. I don't believe galvanic has this issue.
^^ Or something different altogether
http://www.lucypeters.com/our-services/the-lucy-peters-system/
But it is really expensive.
BTW I don't wanna derail this thread but check this out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASGv0_iQ3n4
That's a lot of quick pulses coming out of this laser machine. I'm kinna jellus!
Hype?
Looks like a diode laser with a sapphire cooling tip.
Thank you ladies. Your conversation thread was the little kick in the buttinski to get my stray hairs removed permanently. I go for electrolysis on Monday evening. Never ever having to lift that tweezer to my face no more -- ahhh what a relief! I just hope I don't get a blowout thing you all mentioned. I did mention it to her and she said when people that happens its due to inexperience. I'll cry if she blows me out.
Oh, and something else I've noticed- if your electrologist is normally booked up and hard to get an appointment with, that's a good sign.
If they normally ask, "When's good for you?", not so good.
Also, check Yelp reviews.
One point that maybe relevant. If you go for laser go to a place set up to treat POCS women and not a beauty salon. They are (usually) medically qualified and use higher energy machines. And they are very aware of client sensitivity.
I couldn't agree more with all the posts about picking a good electrologist / laser practitioner who use the latest equipment and also being aware of the warning signs of things starting to go wrong (e.g. massive swelling, scabbing or the popping sounds from blow-outs). Prevention is better than cure. However, if it does all go wrong has anyone had any luck with curative treatments?
(Laser is guaranteed to permanently destroy the follicles that it does kill, it just can't necessarily kill ALL of them - hence reduction and not removal. I had my facial hair "reduced" to a half dozen survivors 6+ years ago with zero regrowth, so I'm content so far. I also had the ideal very light skin/dark hair combo for laser.)