Hey y'all,
I've actually been finding the online part of online dating rather fun. I like being social, and while I know a lot of people have an agenda on dating sites, it's been a pretty easy learning curve to see which guys were more interested in getting to know me rather than just wanting to meet immediately. That being said, I don't put everything on my profile.
I've been increasingly worried about disclosing my transgender status to the guys I've been in contact with. I was wondering if any of y'all have any advice or experience you could share about timing disclosure to a potential partner, and what to say? Somehow "btdubs I'm trans," doesn't seem like a good approach, even if I don't want to make a huge deal about it or wear a scarlet T on my profile as a warning.
I know it will matter to the other person that I be upfront and honest about it. And I have been chaffing with the impulse to get it over with while not wanting to scare away a guy I'm starting to like potentially more than just a friend. Anyway, I'd like to crowd source y'all's opinions/advice, and I'll appreciate anything y'all can offer.
Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from Katie's iPad using Tapatalk
The first line of my Okcupid profile is "I'm transgender, if that hasn't stopped you in your tracks feel free to write"
I know you don't think that's a good idea, but I have had tons of contacts, mostly women, and I have had zero problems or harassment. My profile indicates that I'm looking for friends of any age interested in bisexual girls.
Hugs, Devlyn
My therapist has been working with transgender women for more than 20 years. She claims she has never seen a relationship between a cis man and a trans woman survive the man finding out she is trans. The ones she's seen survive are those where the man knew from the very start.
She strongly recommended that I disclose on my profile that I am trans.
Personally, I've always had some kind of blurb in my profile about being trans. I think the vaguest I've ever been was that I'm currently female bodied, but didn't identify that way. I think it's important to include for disclosure's sake, since it is with the intention of dating.
For safety purposes, I listed myself living in the next town over and was purposefully very vague about what I do for a living. I work in a very small field at the moment, and any little bit of Googling would have immediately led to me.
If you think the people you're already talking to will take it well/will politely discontinue conversation, add it to the end of a message. "I've really enjoyed talking to you. I think you should know that [insert favorite verbiage here]. I hope that doesn't make you less interested in talking to me, but I understand if it does."
i don't disclose unless i'm planning on it going further than just friends. i don't feel like it's anyone's business tbh because i'm stealth and if i'm not sleeping with you, it's none of your business imo. however, i'm a trans man and i'm straight (women seem to be more open about it/non violent, etc. from my experience at least) so i guess it's different.
I've tried being very upfront and I've tried selective disclosure.
Being upfront definitely saves a LOT of time and energy.
On most dating sites women get bombarded with messages. Having something in your profile about being trans can help cut down on the volume of emails to something that's more manageable. You also never have to face the difficult situation off becoming invested in someone only to be rejected when you disclose.
That being said, it is sometimes nice to just chat and be lighthearted and carefree and and enjoy the experience that any cis woman would be afforded. I understand the appeal.
I've found that the most worthwhile people to talk to are the ones who learn of your trans status in your profile and still message you to chat, treating you like any other woman right off the bat, never even mentioning your trans status at all.
These people are slightly uncommon but I wouldn't call them rare, honestly.
I don't disclose till date two or three, so I can see if I am interested. Like IM says above, its none of their business if bedtime isn't going to be on the cards and I don't want to trust my stealth to someone who I don't feel is at least a good guy. On the dating site I used, I tend to only message back guys who say they are open minded and liberal thinkers though (making no statement on politics - that is a separate thing all together). This is particularly important as I have had a couple of dates with guys who have given me their number while I was at work. I feel I have side stepped a couple of potential issues by not disclosing to guys who turned out to be idiots.
I have never had a problem. I haven't had many dates to talk of (because I haven't had a lot of time - I have had plenty enough interest though). From the 6 or 7 or so guys that I have either met through online dating or who have given me their number irl, some guys say they want to see me again, some disappear, some say they do and obviously get a bit head bent by it and go from super keen to stopping messaging. Nobody has ever been anything but respectful though. I haven't been on the dating site in months though. I get too many offers outside of that to keep up with, so, yeah.
Even with the trans thing, I think dating is at least comparable to how it was before, probably easier. There is certainly more opportunity. I could find something casual really easily I think. I was worried about it before transition. Now not so much.
My opinion is that it is the other person's business, or at least 50% their business. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship, even a single date, with someone who felt my opinions and thoughts didn't matter. So I wouldn't treat anyone that way.
Murphy's law says that if I went on a date with someone without disclosing, a childhood friend would be in the restaurant and say "Mike? What are you doing wearing a dress?"
At my age (46) I cant quite pull off 100% stealth in real life even if I wanted to, more from things I still own that out me than my appearance or anything else... I can do it online and even in person if I want though but thats a pointless exercise being pre op and Ive done it before... Men almost never react positively when they dont know and I tell them, its pretty scary when it happens in person and just annoying when Im online... I cant blame a man for that reaction though, nobody likes to be played and fooled... Its exhausting all the replies I get if I dont disclose and Im not comfortable going into a blind date with a man without him knowing the truth... I think eventually sometime after being post op Id be comfortable not disclosing and even dating and having casual hook ups with men to try it out but Im not there yet.... I can still see some of the same problems being there though no matter how well I can "pass"... Its not completely honest and dangerous to try to play a man like that....
So for now I deal with the guys that are into trans women and that gets old fast... They seem to think that just because Im trans Im this huge slut or something ::) Yea I like an occasional one nighter but when I really like a guy, things go very well on a date and then in bed and then he never gets back to me it can really suck feeling so used and then rejected... Yet I keep going back and I dream of the seemingly impossible guy who wouldn't have any big issues with seeing me all the way through transition... A real loving M/F relationship...
All I can do is deal with it and look ahead to a day I wont have to date pre op ;) In the meantime I just see it all as valuable experience with men from a womans perspective even if not really "real" .... Of course if the day ever comes I find my self in deep stealth my views are subject to change, I totally get that angle too even if Im not there YET ;)
Personally I don't list as trans, I list like any other girl cause otherwise I get bombarded with penis pics and worse, don't really need that.
But the second line on my profile says:
Pretty as porcelain prickle as a porcupine made a male shed my scale
I think this gives some warning and then allows me to follow up with a simple line like:
"Before we meet or this goes any further I just want to make sure you read and understood the second line on my profile"
If they are still clueless I'll spell it out for them but for those that are interested and capable of understanding that line it avoids any awkwardness when disclosing.
Quote from: antonia on March 14, 2015, 05:53:34 PM
Personally I don't list as trans, I list like any other girl cause otherwise I get bombarded with penis pics and worse, don't really need that.
But the second line on my profile says:
Pretty as porcelain prickle as a porcupine made a male shed my scale
I think this gives some warning and then allows me to follow up with a simple line like:
"Before we meet or this goes any further I just want to make sure you read and understood the second line on my profile"
If they are still clueless I'll spell it out for them but for those that are interested and capable of understanding that line it avoids any awkwardness when disclosing.
I like your style!
I guess I just don't like the idea of preselecting the people who will be interested in talking to me. Yeah there are creepers out there, but I wouldn't expect someone who has never met or got to know a transgender person to not have some influence by our society's pervasive transphobia. If I am going to avoid people with alcohol in their profile pics, why wouldn't it also be "fair" to avoid people with transgender in their profile. But more than any of that, I want to get to know someone before I have to share things that are so deeply personal, not that I don't understand your perspective Devlyn Marie. And I want them to get to know me without involving labels or preconceptions, I don't know it thats naivete however...
Quote from: antonia on March 14, 2015, 05:53:34 PM
Personally I don't list as trans, I list like any other girl cause otherwise I get bombarded with penis pics and worse, don't really need that.
But the second line on my profile says:
Pretty as porcelain prickle as a porcupine made a male shed my scale
...
I know what the sentence means, but I don't know how it means that. ???
I thought about burying a mention of my transgender status in my profile, but then I didn't want to assume everyone read through everything on my profile. I'm happy when a guy mentions something I put in it, but I get that people often skim over things. The glut of information available to us for every match makes it easy to be extremely selective, as well as quick to judge. I don't want to exclude myself from all but the most open-minded, but I don't want to lie or hide. I guess my plan is disclosing before meeting up.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on March 14, 2015, 04:20:02 PM
My opinion is that it is the other person's business, or at least 50% their business. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship, even a single date, with someone who felt my opinions and thoughts didn't matter. So I wouldn't treat anyone that way.
I respect you Devlyn, but I must disagree.
Other things that would be their business, but still wouldn't be said up front on their profile:
- I have had to have a masectomy due to breast cancer.
- I have any other form of congenital body defect
- I have an idiot ex who likes to crap on my lawn
- I have a shed load of debt
- a gazillion other things - you get the idea.
It certainly would make profiles more interesting, but then nobody would get together, because they didn't look past the details to the person in there. That's what meeting a couple of times does, and what would they have lost if they don't like you on the basis of that? A couple of dates, the same as if they don't like you on the basis of anything else. We should tell them yes, just like the other stuff above should be told to them, but not straight away.
This to me is the important bit: Why then should we ring a bell and shout our personal information out like some kind of leper warning. I think it sets a very bad idea going in peoples minds, that it needs to be disclosed upfront. You are saying, 'hey this is so bad, everyone should know straight away.' as well as 'in the interest of safegaurding people, Information on trans peoples gender identity is public property, to protect you from being involved with me'. Not to mention, it sets an expectation that most everyone wont like you without even meeting you.
For me the point is this allows me to delay telling them I'm trans until I might be ready to meet or take things to the next level but at the same time it's not like "I am dropping a bomb on them", I'm just making sure that they read "The second line of my profile".
I know it's kinda cheating since it's written in prose and nobody reads profiles but at the point where I would feel ready to take things to the next level I would expect them to have gone back and re-read my profile, in any case the main point is to shift the perception from "I was hiding something" to "You did not notice even though I tried telling".
I hope that does not make me a manipulative bitch but ...
Quote from: Obfuskatie on March 15, 2015, 01:50:25 AM
I guess I just don't like the idea of preselecting the people who will be interested in talking to me. Yeah there are creepers out there, but I wouldn't expect someone who has never met or got to know a transgender person to not have some influence by our society's pervasive transphobia. If I am going to avoid people with alcohol in their profile pics, why wouldn't it also be "fair" to avoid people with transgender in their profile. But more than any of that, I want to get to know someone before I have to share things that are so deeply personal, not that I don't understand your perspective Devlyn Marie. And I want them to get to know me without involving labels or preconceptions, I don't know it thats naivete however...
I know what the sentence means, but I don't know how it means that. ???
I thought about burying a mention of my transgender status in my profile, but then I didn't want to assume everyone read through everything on my profile. I'm happy when a guy mentions something I put in it, but I get that people often skim over things. The glut of information available to us for every match makes it easy to be extremely selective, as well as quick to judge. I don't want to exclude myself from all but the most open-minded, but I don't want to lie or hide. I guess my plan is disclosing before meeting up.
Quote from: antonia on March 15, 2015, 08:04:06 AM
For me the point is this allows me to delay telling them I'm trans until I might be ready to meet or take things to the next level but at the same time it's not like "I am dropping a bomb on them", I'm just making sure that they read "The second line of my profile".
I know it's kinda cheating since it's written in prose and nobody reads profiles but at the point where I would feel ready to take things to the next level I would expect them to have gone back and re-read my profile, in any case the main point is to shift the perception from "I was hiding something" to "You did not notice even though I tried telling".
I hope that does not make me a manipulative bitch but ...
No, I get it, and that doesn't make you a bitch. I don't consider it manipulative either. I figure there's a point where a smart guy will want to thoroughly read or reread your profile so they can try to connect better with you conversationally. No one wants to be perceived as boring, and the profile is a ready resource listing our interests. I know I'm much more likely to respond to someone who references my profile in their message to me.
I guess my next problem is what to say when disclosing. I don't want to be apologetic exactly, but I'd like to be sensitive to the other person. I figure, if they're a complete jerk about it, then I'm glad I told them before meeting. But I don't want to inspire the fade-away.
My best attempt I've thought of so far is, "I like you, (name of guy), and enjoy talking to you, but before we get any more involved I need you to know that I'm transgender. If that bothers you or makes you uncomfortable, I'd be disappointed, but it's ok. As I wasn't given a choice with how I was born, you can't always choose how you feel in response to surprising news. However I would appreciate delicacy in your response to my gender-status."
Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from Katie's iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on March 15, 2015, 03:59:12 AM
I respect you Devlyn, but I must disagree.
Other things that would be their business, but still wouldn't be said up front on their profile:
- I have had to have a masectomy due to breast cancer.
- I have any other form of congenital body defect
- I have an idiot ex who likes to crap on my lawn
- I have a shed load of debt
- a gazillion other things - you get the idea.
It certainly would make profiles more interesting, but then nobody would get together, because they didn't look past the details to the person in there. That's what meeting a couple of times does, and what would they have lost if they don't like you on the basis of that? A couple of dates, the same as if they don't like you on the basis of anything else. We should tell them yes, just like the other stuff above should be told to them, but not straight away.
This to me is the important bit: Why then should we ring a bell and shout our personal information out like some kind of leper warning. I think it sets a very bad idea going in peoples minds, that it needs to be disclosed upfront. You are saying, 'hey this is so bad, everyone should know straight away.' as well as 'in the interest of safegaurding people, Information on trans peoples gender identity is public property, to protect you from being involved with me'. Not to mention, it sets an expectation that most everyone wont like you without even meeting you.
No worries, I was expressing my opinion, I understand that opinions vary. :) I don't think my approach is warning anyone or making assumptions that people won't like me. My approach has yielded exactly the results I want, I haven't wasted a single moment on people who wouldn't be interested in a transgender person. Remember, I don't identify as a woman, I'm a non-binary/genderfluid person. A Domme top in matters of the bedroom. I'm not for everyone, and my profile does a lot of the weeding out for me.
Hugs, Devlyn
I am very definitey a sub btm female, so its probably to be expected that we would be different :-)
Hugs :-) Kira xx
I've found that most people don't actually read anything I write. Plenty of people have started talking to me, but they usually lose all interest once they discover that I'm trans. I put that at the start of my page, but I guess that isn't good enough. They seemed to like my picture, though.
Quote from: Eevee on March 15, 2015, 08:57:53 AM
I've found that most people don't actually read anything I write. Plenty of people have started talking to me, but they usually lose all interest once they discover that I'm trans. I put that at the start of my page, but I guess that isn't good enough. They seemed to like my picture, though.
If they don't reference something I wrote, I ask if they've read my profile. A lot of those people I never hear from again, so you're right. People will reply to your picture without reading a word about you. So I guess technically, I have wasted some time on people who wouldn't be interested in me.
Hugs, Devlyn
I think your message for disclosing is about as good as it can be, I guess the responses also depend a lot on the area and age group. I find that in my area trans acceptance and support among people in their 20s is very high, when you get to the 40s not so much.
Quote from: Obfuskatie on March 15, 2015, 08:26:38 AM
No, I get it, and that doesn't make you a bitch. I don't consider it manipulative either. I figure there's a point where a smart guy will want to thoroughly read or reread your profile so they can try to connect better with you conversationally. No one wants to be perceived as boring, and the profile is a ready resource listing our interests. I know I'm much more likely to respond to someone who references my profile in their message to me.
I guess my next problem is what to say when disclosing. I don't want to be apologetic exactly, but I'd like to be sensitive to the other person. I figure, if they're a complete jerk about it, then I'm glad I told them before meeting. But I don't want to inspire the fade-away.
My best attempt I've thought of so far is, "I like you, (name of guy), and enjoy talking to you, but before we get any more involved I need you to know that I'm transgender. If that bothers you or makes you uncomfortable, I'd be disappointed, but it's ok. As I wasn't given a choice with how I was born, you can't always choose how you feel in response to surprising news. However I would appreciate delicacy in your response to my gender-status."
Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from Katie's iPad using Tapatalk
Antonia, you look like the girl from the Breakfast Club, at the end of the movie when she gets a makeover. :)
I had an OKCupid profile for two days. I mean, I've had 'em before as a boy, but I had one as a girl for two days. Suburban people are normal and boring, there was nobody who tickled my nippled, and nobody messaged me, either.
One of the first things I had on my profile was that I was trans. It wasn't like a "disclosure." It was like, "trans girl, skateboarder, punk rocker." I'm proud to be trans!
So yeah, I was a lonely girl. Justin Bieber would not approve.
Aww, thx :D
I have an OKC profile, had it since Valentines Day (yeah, that pathetic), so ar I get about 120 visitors per week, and about 200 messages so far, out of which I'm perhaps interested in 1 out of 20 and continue a conversation. I guess a lot of it has to do with living in a bigger city/metropolitan area.
And like all Canadians, I hate Bieber :)
Quote from: MugwortPsychonaut on March 15, 2015, 12:07:45 PM
Antonia, you look like the girl from the Breakfast Club, at the end of the movie when she gets a makeover. :)
I had an OKCupid profile for two days. I mean, I've had 'em before as a boy, but I had one as a girl for two days. Suburban people are normal and boring, there was nobody who tickled my nippled, and nobody messaged me, either.
One of the first things I had on my profile was that I was trans. It wasn't like a "disclosure." It was like, "trans girl, skateboarder, punk rocker." I'm proud to be trans!
So yeah, I was a lonely girl. Justin Bieber would not approve.
I've had my profile for a little over a week on OkC, and have a quite a few messages with either a "sup," or an overt request to skip the online part. I mean, it's like they don't know how lazy it makes them look. Sigh...[emoji19]
I've also made sure to like a few people and msg a couple that stood out too. Some guys'll take more of an initiative once they have a go ahead it seems. And I've heard that girls who take an active role in choosing a partner through online dating are generally more satisfied with the process.
I also don't know if it's worth it to pay money for A-list to see who has liked me...
At least Bieber is just one person, the US already has a pretty big collection of mouth-breathing warm-bodies. We imported him for some reason I can't remember. [emoji14]
Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pro tip: Compare the timestamps on the 'Likes you" list to the visitors log. ;)
Hugs, Devlyn
I'm 24 now and have been online dating on and off since age 19. I have tried everything from telling them in the first few messages to not telling them for a couple months to never telling them. I have never felt comfortable enough putting it in my public profile because for a while I was stealth and living in a small community where I didn't want anyone to find out.
I would say that out of all the options I've listed, my preferred method of disclosure is either messaging or texting the guy before we meet. That way we get a chance to chat a little and see if we connect at all, and if we do, I can find out if he's ok with my past before I waste any time going to meet him. My message/text-disclosure usually is something along the lines of this:
"Hey (dude's name) I just wanted to let you know something about me before we get to know each other better. I was born male-bodied but have always identified as female. I went through several different procedures and medical transitions to become the woman I am today. I understand this is not something everyone is comfortable with, so I wanted to give you the chance to think about it before we meet in person. Please let me know if this changes anything for you, because whatever you decide is okay."
I would say that has about a 50% success rate of getting the guy to still be interested to go on a date. However, I have recently quit online dating. I find the atmosphere more conducive to hooking up and not getting to know someone for who they are. I prefer meeting people through friends, common interests, etc. But hey, I online dated for six years and had some success with it at times so I'm sure you will too! Best of luck :)
I don't do online. Tried it, but always disappointed.
In real life, people can see you completely, wholly. And make a snap decision to approach or not. Online things are skewed and often look better than irl, making dating after online more stressful and taxing to look better than what you produced online.
I think it saves time to just talk to people who are interesting, and not worry about the searching for love component. Not that I intend on meeting a bunch of them, but I've disclosed to the ones I like who are flirting. I guess I forgot how frustrating dating can be since I haven't done it in a few years.
And thank y'all for your advice. It helped a lot when I really didn't know what I wanted to do. [emoji4]
Hugs,
- Katie
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