Today is a dark day in Indiana. I've never been a huge fan of my home state but today takes the cake....
Posted by Amanda Terkel, HuffPost Gay Voices, 03/26/2015
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/26/indiana-governor-mike-pence-anti-gay-bill_n_6947472.html?ir=Gay+Voices&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000050
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/26/indiana-governor-mike-pence-anti-gay-bill_n_6947472.html?ir=Gay+Voices&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000050)
Indiana Gov. Mike Pence (R) signed the religious freedom bill into law Thursday, despite concerns by LGBT advocates and business groups. (AP Photo/Michael Conroy)
WASHINGTON -- Indiana Gov. Mike Pence (R) quietly signed legislation Thursday that could legalize discrimination against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender individuals.
The Religious Freedom Restoration Act would allow any individual or corporation to cite its religious beliefs as a defense when sued by a private party. But many opponents of the bill, which included business leaders, argued that it could open the door to widespread discrimination. Business owners who don't want to serve same-sex couples, for example, could now have legal protections to discriminate.
Op Comments:
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Today is a dark day in Indiana. I've never been a huge fan of my home state but today takes the cake....
There are so many wonderful, accepting people here in Indiana and I really don't believe this reflects the wishes of the majority of the population here but it is what it is.
Slavery was justified religiously, too.
My money says it will be struck down by the courts.
I think you're right, this will go the same way of the same sex marriage ban once the supreme court weighs in.
What really gets me is how much money we will have wasted to fight it (both public and private), how many businesses and organizations (and there are a LOT that have already pledged to pull from the states' economy), and the black eye we've just been given by our elected officials nationally all thanks to the hatred in some people's hearts.
I'm just amazed that anyone actually thinks this way.
Sad.... really sad....
Yes, I completely agree. The Hoosiers are tarnished now. As a Wolverines fan I have to tell you that I now despise the Hoosiers more than the Buckeyes.... :)
With the conservative congress leading the charge, these bills will be wasting time and money across the USA for the near future. And what really sucks is that the argument for the bills are dubious at best, and amount to nothing more than attempts to marginalize a group of people. If you want to participate in the public marketplace then you cannot say I will not serve a person because of such a specious reason. If it stands up, then they can use the religious cause to say that serving other races, or foreigners, or w/e the reason is against their religious beliefs. Just hogwash, I say.
Quote from: AmazinglyAutumn on March 26, 2015, 03:19:14 PM
I think you're right, this will go the same way of the same sex marriage ban once the supreme court weighs in.
Autumn, I wish I had your optimism. The supreme court decision on same sex marriage is due later this year, and it will probably hinge on one guy's vote. He's weighing states rights against equal protection, two things he has spoken in favor of in the past. Who knows which he will choose?
This will be repealed as soon as a Muslim clerk refuses to sell someone beer on religious grounds.
Quote from: ainsley on March 26, 2015, 03:37:52 PM
Yes, I completely agree. The Hoosiers are tarnished now. As a Wolverines fan I have to tell you that I now despise the Hoosiers more than the Buckeyes.... :)
Funny you should use college organizations as an example... The NCAA, headquartered here in Indy, is one of the first to speak out against this. From the local news here:
"NCAA President Mark Emmert issued a statement after the governor signed the bill.
"The NCAA national office and our members are deeply committed to providing an inclusive environment for all our events. We are especially concerned about how this legislation could affect our student-athletes and employees. We will work diligently to assure student-athletes competing in, and visitors attending, next week's Men's Final Four in Indianapolis are not impacted negatively by this bill. Moving forward, we intend to closely examine the implications of this bill and how it might affect future events as well as our workforce." "
Haha, yep, I read that. I am not surprised and that was one of the first things I thought about. Even Ely Lilly & Co., Cummins, and others are strongly criticizing this farce of a religious freedom bill. I still think it will be killed int he courts.
What the hell!!! And what were all those nuns doing standing around the governor smiling their faces off!!!
I feel hugely betrayed both in my faith and in my vocation as a religious sister. More than ever I find myself not giving a damn if someone outs me to the Church because I firmly believe that God doesn't make mistakes and everyone of my trans brothers and sisters is a child of God.
Oooooo things like this annoy me. It's going to take me a while to calm down about this :( >:(
Sad part the Supreme Court gave religion the power to do what ever they want.
Giving the Hobby lobby the ruling has given religious super powers.
Guess we need to forum a transgender belief (being what religion is only a belief ) in religion of nature.
Same as the lgb part need to register as a religion.
Look at the bill in California. It will pass just like prop 8.
So much power over a belief. Sigh!
It's one of the reasons why I want be here Miss Izzy. Christianity was never supposed to be this awful judgemental and nasty thing which it seems to have become these days. I've never been one to preach and it's not my way of doing things either, but I hope in some way to be able to offer help and comfort to anyone who is getting knocked around by someone's hash and judgemental brand of religion.
Human rights should always trump secondary rights of anyone.
Maybe we need a wall of shame? Somewhere LGBTQ can post names, address of places that claim there religious rights and then we can exercise our rights of not giving them any of our hard earned money.
I feel sick. it truly do.
Quote from: Jill F on March 26, 2015, 03:43:20 PM
This will be repealed as soon as a Muslim clerk refuses to sell someone beer on religious grounds.
Oh that will be so sweet to read in the news. The kind of person who likes this legislation usually only likes freedom when it's
their freedom.
"You must not be intolerant of my intolerance!" is all I hear when a person speaks like this.
Quote from: Abysha on March 26, 2015, 06:57:05 PM
Oh that will be so sweet to read in the news. The kind of person who likes this legislation usually only likes freedom when it's their freedom.
"You must not be intolerant of my intolerance!" is all I hear when a person speaks like this.
Dontcha love it when they try to turn it around and play the victim card? People don't choose their race, birthplace nor to be LGBT, but bigotry IS a choice.
By that logic, Afghan school girls should be more tolerant of the Taliban.
Something I was taught as a Franciscan was to see Christ in the eyes of everyone you meet, but in the face of such bigotry it gets so very hard sometimes.
I completely disagree with that law for using religion as an excuse not to deal with someone. The great thing that religion can be is not to judge someone whom you disagree with how they live but to INCLUDE those whom even non religious people look and snuff at. Exclusion leads to hate. Some people have non religious reason to exclude people, but using religion is a slap in the face to those of use who are religious. OP I hope this law get reverse, like many people here do.
This law makes me sad for so many reasons, but most of all, I have friends and family in Indiana. And I'm going this weekend. I was heartened to see one of my cousins, who I thought would be a tough nut to crack, put up an LGBT Ally post on Facebook today. So something positive came out of this. Indiana Christmas this year is going to be double interesting.
Quote from: AmazinglyAutumn on March 26, 2015, 03:19:14 PM
I think you're right, this will go the same way of the same sex marriage ban once the supreme court weighs in.
What really gets me is how much money we will have wasted to fight it (both public and private), how many businesses and organizations (and there are a LOT that have already pledged to pull from the states' economy), and the black eye we've just been given by our elected officials nationally all thanks to the hatred in some people's hearts.
I'm just amazed that anyone actually thinks this way.
Sad.... really sad....
The only problem with looking at things from this perspective is that it will take 15 years and in the process cost many people their freedom, life savings and dignity before it makes it there. There is no guarantee either on a win. Hobby Lobby, the boy scouts and others are proof that sometimes you can't always get what you want. It all depends on the case and circumstances around relief for the people affected. This is why I cannot stand either the political left or the political right in this country. Both are equally dangerous to freedom and both would exhaust the nations treasury to fight their issues in court since neither side can win at the ballot box or in the arena of ideas and neither side would back down.
Audra McDonald Rips Indiana Governor Over Law
BY Daniel Reynolds
March 26 2015 8:27
http://www.advocate.com/politics/2015/03/26/audra-mcdonald-rips-indiana-governor-over-law?team=social (http://www.advocate.com/politics/2015/03/26/audra-mcdonald-rips-indiana-governor-over-law?team=social)
Audra McDonald has one of the most beautiful voices in the world — and she's using it to speak out against antigay legislation.
The Broadway star sent a series of messages through Twitter to Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, after he signed the controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act Thursday morning.
As for the Muslim Clerk and alcohol, I've read several stories where stores have to have someone else ring up the alcohol because some Muslim clerks already refuse to ring it up.
Quote from: Jill F on March 26, 2015, 03:43:20 PM
This will be repealed as soon as a Muslim clerk refuses to sell someone beer on religious grounds.
Really? That's already happening...
My bet is that the law not only stands but is upheld by the courts, based on Burwell v Hobby Lobby. However the stipulation would be "sincerely held religious belief." I don't think we'll get broad decision striking down this sort of law or any similar law but decision narrow enough to prevent arbitrary discrimination.
I think that discrimination is a bad thing but it's a fine line to walk with regard to respecting someone's right to observe their religion and not arbitrarily discriminating against people, because "ick."
And in a way, it makes it easier for me to decide who to do business with.
Quote from: traci_k on March 27, 2015, 11:17:52 AM
As for the Muslim Clerk and alcohol, I've read several stories where stores have to have someone else ring up the alcohol because some Muslim clerks already refuse to ring it up.
In some places there are signs about pork products too.
Quote from: Jill F on March 26, 2015, 03:43:20 PM
This will be repealed as soon as a Muslim clerk refuses to sell someone beer on religious grounds.
Snarkasm, folks. I do that. Could you imagine the uproar if these people didn't get their beer though?
Anyway, the fallout has already begun. Lots of businesses and a gaming convention are already pulling out and the loss of NCAA basketball is really going to bite them in the butts next year.
Someone clearly wasn't thinking this one through.
Legal discrimination back by government.
Yep who would think this could be in 2015.
Next there will be discrimination against other religions or sectors with-in there own religion.
They warned about this when the Supreme Court ruled that day that religion has over and above rights.
What's next killing sectors legally.
Shaking my head over humanity.
Sigh!
Quote from: mrs izzy on March 27, 2015, 02:34:05 PM
Legal discrimination back by government...
They warned about this when the Supreme Court ruled that day that religion has over and above rights....
Sigh!
The Hobby Lobby decision. I remember the government swearing up and down that it would go no further, never be a precedent... Yeah, right.
Does Australia have room for all of us? They're beginning to look like the only country without an overabundance of snow that doesn't have their head up their...
Indiana 'Religious Freedom' Law Spurs 'This Business Serves Everyone' Movement
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/03/27/indiana-religious-freedom-law-spurs-this-business-serves-everyone-backlash/ (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/03/27/indiana-religious-freedom-law-spurs-this-business-serves-everyone-backlash/)
March 27, 2015 1:38 PM
No author listed
Stickers reading "This BusinessServes Everyone" have popping up in shop windows across Indiana, as a response to the state's controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act.
(https://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/open-for-service-2.jpg?w=420)
Quote from: suzifrommd on March 28, 2015, 03:34:44 PM
Indiana 'Religious Freedom' Law Spurs 'This Business Serves Everyone' Movement
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/03/27/indiana-religious-freedom-law-spurs-this-business-serves-everyone-backlash/ (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/03/27/indiana-religious-freedom-law-spurs-this-business-serves-everyone-backlash/)
March 27, 2015 1:38 PM
No author listed
Stickers reading "This BusinessServes Everyone" have popping up in shop windows across Indiana, as a response to the state's controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act.
(https://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/open-for-service-2.jpg?w=420)
This has been huge here so far. I started noticing it the day before sb101 was signed into law.
Angie's list is the latest in a string on organizations to put on hold or cancel altogether plans to expand in Indiana, as of this morning. This was issued in response today (from local news station wthr):
Indianapolis' City-County Council president Maggie Lewis issued a response later that afternoon, saying:
"It's disheartening that the Angie's List investment in the near east side has been put aside due to the on-going Religious Freedom Reformation Act (RFRA) controversy. On Monday, I'll be supporting Proposal 120, a Council resolution that rejects the RFRA and lets the world know what a wonderful, welcoming city Indy truly is. Indianapolis welcomes people of any sexual orientation, race, gender identification, ethnicity, religion, or creed. RFRA does not reflect the diversity we celebrate in our great city."
Segregation alive and well in Indiana...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi356.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo6%2Fcbgreiwe%2F20150328_161022-1_zpsem3hqwl8.jpg&hash=5434ef0ae51406e67b4e744e07fd2a5269a87668) (http://s356.photobucket.com/user/cbgreiwe/media/20150328_161022-1_zpsem3hqwl8.jpg.html)
Sarcasm obviously, but there was a "Hell is Real" sign earlier on the road. There's more than corn in Indiana... like religious bigotry.
Quote from: ChiGirl on March 28, 2015, 08:09:57 PM
Segregation alive and well in Indiana...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi356.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo6%2Fcbgreiwe%2F20150328_161022-1_zpsem3hqwl8.jpg&hash=5434ef0ae51406e67b4e744e07fd2a5269a87668) (http://s356.photobucket.com/user/cbgreiwe/media/20150328_161022-1_zpsem3hqwl8.jpg.html)
Sarcasm obviously, but there was a "Hell is Real" sign earlier on the road. There's more than corn in Indiana... like religious bigotry.
Hey, that sign isn't far from where I live... and yes, you're right... most of the bigotry coming from our legislators.
Indy is at least trying:
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2015/03/27/hate-rfra-downtown-indy-wants-make-video/70539492/
I've driven past that sign so many times visiting my family in southern Indiana and it always made me laugh. But there is an irony it as well because Indiana is where the KKK was formed. And now, this pro-discrimination bill.
I love Indiana. My father and his entire family is from Indiana and so id my mother's father. It's where I am right now. I love my family and I want the best for them and the state they live in. I worry for my gay cousin who is in the closet from most of the family. I don't want to boycott Indiana. I want to help the good people of this state take it back from the RW nutjobs.
Plus, I'm selfish. I'd like to come here next Christmas and not worry that I won't be allowed in certain places.
Quote from: ChiGirl on March 28, 2015, 11:53:18 PM
Plus, I'm selfish. I'd like to come here next Christmas and not worry that I won't be allowed in certain places.
That's not a selfish thing to want...
It's basic human decency.
Honestly, and I hope I'm not being overly optimistic here, I think with all of the public outrage over this any business that would even try to use this would feel the economic impact so harshly they wouldn't continue to be in business much longer.
Whether or not our legislators agree, this just isn't the world we live in anymore nor should it be.
Besides, I don't want to give my money to anyone who really doesn't want my business anyway!
Quote from: ChiGirl on March 28, 2015, 11:53:18 PM
I've driven past that sign so many times visiting my family in southern Indiana and it always made me laugh. But there is an irony it as well because Indiana is where the KKK was formed. And now, this pro-discrimination bill.
I love Indiana. My father and his entire family is from Indiana and so id my mother's father. It's where I am right now. I love my family and I want the best for them and the state they live in. I worry for my gay cousin who is in the closet from most of the family. I don't want to boycott Indiana. I want to help the good people of this state take it back from the RW nutjobs.
Plus, I'm selfish. I'd like to come here next Christmas and not worry that I won't be allowed in certain places.
Sweetie and I were discussing this yesterday. We agreed that the big businesses were right to boycott the state given that everything they do has a scattergun effect. She suggested, and I agreed, that individuals should visit the state and only patronize businesses that ignore the new law and serve everyone. Sounds great, but if you're not into racing what the heck do you do in Indiana? I grew up in southern Michigan and I have no idea.
I am ashamed of my state government for passing this law, but I am proud of the people who are opposing this law by going to the statehouse, holding rallies in 32 degree weather, and moving business and conventions out of Indiana. Because of the of the actions of our state government, the future of NCAA tournaments in Indiana is in jeopardy, SalesForce is refusing to expand in the state, and Gen Con (a 56,000 person gaming convention) has pulled out of Indiana. Some of the most narrow-minded legislators have gone too far this time and have now angered people with money, and have caused economic damage to the state as a result.
I was at an anti RFRA rally in Fort Wayne on Saturday (it was really cold), were any of my sisters and brothers from Indiana raising their voices against this law?
One Restaurant Already Celebrated 'Religious Liberty' By Turning Away Gays
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/03/28/3640221/indiana-business-owner-admits-discriminating-lgbt-people/
BY Kay Steiger March 28, 2015 AT 9:19 AM
An Indiana business owner went on a local radio station and said that he had discriminated against gay or lesbian couples even before Gov. Mike Pence (R) signed a law on Thursday protecting business owners who decide to discriminate for "religious liberty" reasons. He then defended the practice and suggested he would do it again.
=============================
Well, so much for my hoping this wouldn't amount to much.... The person in the article refused to identify themself or their business, of course, and they admit to doing this before the law was enacted.... Sounds like a real peach... :-\
Yesterday on "This Week" with George Stephanopolis governor Pence was interviewed. Stephanopolis must have asked him six times in 12 minutes if the law made discrimination legal. He ducked the question every time. If you're asked that kind of question and refuse to answer falling back on being offended to be asked that's a big "yes" to me. The video is available on YouTube.
Quote from: rachel89 on March 29, 2015, 11:57:45 PM
I was at an anti RFRA rally in Fort Wayne on Saturday (it was really cold), were any of my sisters and brothers from Indiana raising their voices against this law?
Thank you for being the voice and presence of reason protesting this regressive, throw back legislation. I appreciate you being out there and only wish for a few minutes to join you in the cold. This is another think globally and act locally opportunity. The conversations, dialogue and repudiation of this ham handed enshrinement of religious bigotry will be part of the process and the legacy we work for.
Law is truly "what is enforced." Gravity needs no cops on earth while this State law reveals itself to be unenforceable ideology.
Crazy
From a strictly business standpoint, this law is irrational and harmful. I really like what Tim Cook, CEO of Apple said. He also recently came out as gay.
"America's business community recognized a long time ago that discrimination, in all its forms, is bad for business. At Apple, we are in business to empower and enrich our customers' lives. We strive to do business in a way that is just and fair. That's why, on behalf of Apple, I'm standing up to oppose this new wave of legislation — wherever it emerges. I'm writing in the hopes that many more will join this movement. From North Carolina to Nevada, these bills under consideration truly will hurt jobs, growth and the economic vibrancy of parts of the country where a 21st-century economy was once welcomed with open arms."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/pro-discrimination-religious-freedom-laws-are-dangerous-to-america/2015/03/29/bdb4ce9e-d66d-11e4-ba28-f2a685dc7f89_story.html
He also got into how people have died to establish freedom in America. The Religious Freedom Restoration Act (have to appreciate the power of words) is basically a slap in the face to what Americans over the centuries have worked to achieve.
Not to mention, with all these powerful companies and organizations boycotting Indiana, it is going to hurt the economy there. Legislators are supposed to be looking out for the people. How did they not see the possible backlash of their actions? Do they care about what it is going to do to the people of their state? It is clear the supporters of this bill do not care about the LGBT people in their state and that is not uncommon throughout the nation. But don't they care about anyone in their state?
It is nice to see people are willing to stand up against the law. That restores some faith in humanity. Where there is bad, there is also good. I hope the law is abolished completely. Maybe this will be a wake-up call for states with similar laws as well.