Hi all,
I feel a lot more confident being involved in community and spiritual life now that I'm consistently being viewed as male. Half of my family is non-religious, and the other half belongs to an evangelical church that I don't feel 100% comfortable attending. My friends for the most part are also not religious, so they're of little help here. I know the degree of openness and affirmation is going to vary by each individual congregation, but I'd love to hear everyone's individual experiences with different denominations. What kind of church communities have you been a part of? Did they know about your transition, and if so, did they take any issue with it?
I went to the Metropolitan Community Church for a while. Sometimes they are listed as MCC. They welcome everyone, especially LGBT people. Most who attend are in one of those groups. I've also found that the Unitarian church can be a nice place.
I can't speak from personal experience, but from my research online, the most LBGT-friendly denominations are Episcopals, MCC, United Church of Christ, and some branches of Methodists. Unitarian Universalists are inclusive as well, but I hesitate to label them a "Christian" denomination.
Definitely not the ones where somebody starts praying loudly that God reach down and save you from your sin before you've barely got in the door (Yes it did happen to me once!).
Episcopalians are great. I went there as a child. From what I remember and what my parents tell me, it was a very accepting atmosphere. My dad was an atheist (now says he's agnostic) and my mom never believed in the biblical stories really (now she is basically an agnostic too). Even they found some comfort in the sermons.The sermons were about love, kindness, forgiveness, and the good things about Christianity. There was not all the talk about hell, being filthy sinners, and the devil.
We had a female minister at one point too. Also I say a former minister of the church on a float in the Gay Pride Parade. My mom pointed him out to me. He was the one who baptized me.
Episcopalians allow gay marriage and gay clergy in the U.S. They also allow trans clergy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/09/episcopal-church-transgender-ordination_n_1660465.html
Apparently there is some organization called TransEpiscopal that helped include gender identity in the non-discrimination practices. They might be worth checking out.
I am not religious in any way, but I have respect for the Episcopal church. Also I went to a Unitarian Universtalist church a couple times. It was very pleasant. They are accepting of people of all faiths (or no faith). They also marched in the Gay Pride Parade and are very accepting of LGBT. Although as another person mentioned, they are not strictly a Christian church.
Only tried one denomination since transition the Methodists.Very friendly and totally OK with me,an F2M and another M2F in the congregation and the Minister was a lesbian.
I am an ex Presbyterian but they are not a bad church to be in. PC USA recently changed its constitution to support same sex marriage. However some local churches cut ties with them as a result so be aware that a local church may not be as accommodating.
Now I am a roman catholic and they are surprisingly tolerant yet they are not as open as the episcopal church or Presbyterian. However they have no doctrine against being trans and pope Francis seems to be pushing the church in the right direction.
Quote from: ImagineKate on April 02, 2015, 09:49:56 PM
Now I am a roman catholic and they are surprisingly tolerant yet they are not as open as the episcopal church or Presbyterian. However they have no doctrine against being trans and pope Francis seems to be pushing the church in the right direction.
I have noticed that about Pope Francis. He seems like a cool guy.
I have great hopes for Pope Francis too :)
I likely can't say much as the topic seems aimed to US denominations. In Brazil, inclusive churches have only been starting up recently: I personally go to the Cidade de Refúgio Community in São Paulo, but even them and other inclusive denominations were originally mostly aimed at the LGB, ignoring the T for the most part.
I've been mistreated a few times, mostly due to lack of information (most treated me as male in the beginning, some thought I was a male crossdresser, and most automatically thought I liked men). But we've been working on trans inclusion, and even if people lack information, it's very comforting that they're actually accepting and listen to you.
My father's a traditional Presbyterian minister, who treated me as most fundamentalist Christians would. The Presbyterian Church of Brazil seems to differ quite a bit from the US denomination, as in Brazil they're much more conservative, and dialogue in general seems far more difficult.
Quote from: Lady Smith on March 29, 2015, 07:21:54 PM
Definitely not the ones where somebody starts praying loudly that God reach down and save you from your sin before you've barely got in the door (Yes it did happen to me once!).
They do that daily in Brazil in most neo-pentecostal denominations, which happen to be the ones all over not only the media, but politics as well. They call it the "gay healing" or something, and often order the "demon of homossexuality" to leave your body.
Hasn't ever lead to anything other than strictly gay people (non-bi) heavily rejecting themselves and eventually deviating or suiciding, let alone the transgender...
Iam coming at an oblleque angel here hope that Iam not too far off base.
In my prior reality..my christian life trying to fit in, to grow in Christ found its limits and growth stunted and my hunger for fellowship
quench by christian stoics.
With my transition therapy I have found that I suffer from an avoidance disorder..hmmm anyway. I don't do well in confrontations..
Might come from growing up in a disfunctional family..So here is this soul desiring to fellowship and grow in the lord and what
do I receive??
Condemnation lengthy discourses of sinfullness!! But wait.? didn't I hear that there is no condemnation in those who love Christ Jesus??
Iam confused, upset, disillusioned with this fellowship of Christ.
So I wander dazed and abandoned in the wilderness with out the love and hope of the church that is supposed to represent the
living God.
No; Iam not completely gone.. And am encouraged by the words..you!..my sisters write in these columns.
Faith, hope, and charity
Bless you Alissa. I can truly tell you that not all Christians are like those judgemental ones you've already experienced. I don't know whereabouts you are in the world, but if there is a Metropolitan Community Church anywhere near where you are living you will find yourself very much welcomed.
I started going to Mass (Catholic) last year and just recently started going to a parish steadily recently. While I have only met the priest and one person (more than just causal). so I cant say too much about my RL experience, as afar as lgbt. but have watched a lot of videos about the Catholic faith about this. and can say from that research I did, that yes the Church does not condone homosexuality/Trans and considers it a sin. But Ideally it loves people with Same sex attraction or Trans and wants to welcome them and love them just like anyone else who has fallen under sin no matter what the type. I'm a laid back person and not big on talking about religion unless i can do it peacfully. esp on the internet, but just wanted to share my xp. :) So please understand, if I dont reply to someone.
Wish you all the best!
I've put a lot of thought into this as an apostate Catholic. To me it doesn't matter if the people are friendly and smile a lot. What matters in religion is whether or not the faith is true or not. In the Catholic Church being trans and acting on it is a mortal sin. The only way to be not in a state of mortal sin is to repent and confess. In effect, I must repent of myself. I did try that for many years and found it to be impossible. All I did was lie to myself every week and develop a huge sense of guilt and failure.
So, if the Church is what it claims I am condemned to hell and simply showing up and participating is a huge waste of time. Since I'm going to burn for eternity I may as well spend my time now on things I enjoy.
On the other hand, if the Church is not what it claims then it and all it's beliefs are a huge farce and again, it's a huge waste of time.
Either way, I came to the conclusion that trying to continue as a Christian was simply an exercise in futility. There is no point to it.
As far as seeking out a denomination that agrees with me; since they do exist, claiming that same spirit of God, that indicates to me that this idea of a spirit of God guiding Christianity exists only in the vain imaginations of men. A real spirit of God could not possibly be so at odds with itself across all the various competing and contradictory flavors of Christendom. So, once again I cannot see the point in any of it.
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves
Quote from: Deborah on December 09, 2016, 07:02:12 PM
I've put a lot of thought into this as an apostate Catholic. To me it doesn't matter if the people are friendly and smile a lot. What matters in religion is whether or not the faith is true or not. In the Catholic Church being trans and acting on it is a mortal sin. The only way to be not in a state of mortal sin is to repent and confess. In effect, I must repent of myself. I did try that for many years and found it to be impossible. All I did was lie to myself every week and develop a huge sense of guilt and failure.
So, if the Church is what it claims I am condemned to hell and simply showing up and participating is a huge waste of time. Since I'm going to burn for eternity I may as well spend my time now on things I enjoy.
On the other hand, if the Church is not what it claims then it and all it's beliefs are a huge farce and again, it's a huge waste of time.
Either way, I came to the conclusion that trying to continue as a Christian was simply an exercise in futility. There is no point to it.
As far as seeking out a denomination that agrees with me; since they do exist, claiming that same spirit of God, that indicates to me that this idea of a spirit of God guiding Christianity exists only in the vain imaginations of men. A real spirit of God could not possibly be so at odds with itself across all the various competing and contradictory flavors of Christendom. So, once again I cannot see the point in any of it.
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves
Being a Christian is one of the hardest things I ever had to do if not the hardest, that being said in my experience its also been one of if not the most the most beautiful and rewarding ive ever expeirenced in my young life. What I mean by that is I have been saving my self for the right person to come along and chastity in general. which of course has been very arduous over the years, but i see the light at the end of the tunnel and the good in it all. Not to make you feel bad whatsoever, as id hope to do the exact opposite. But I do believe in Catholicism that you need to have true contrition to have a valid confession. I agree totally about the competition and the contradiction. Thats why I want sure I felt right about being a protestant anymore as theres son many types and they disagree on huge issues and I felt while i had a hard time with some of the churches views at least in my experience it was unison in what it taught. I'm have a hard time with the fact that contraception is a mortal sin from what I understand and coming from a prot background. im not used to the high praise Mary gets in the Church. I will say we might be coming from very different places, bit I really respect to what seems like genuineness. There are many Catholics that just confess with no contrition what so ever and go out and do the very same thing if not 10x more because they feel that they got there license to do anything under the sun that they please. So i just wasnt to say i really appreciate your honesty, and this is up to you but i can pray for you and other disaffected catholics and people in generel w/ Chrurch. if it means anything I know how hard it is and painful it can be to live by the Churches teaching. But I personally belive that Good comes out of it and theres light at the end.
God bless
My beginning transitioning forced me to leave our conservative evangelical church home with great sadness. The evangelical beliefs have always been important to me and most of the churches I checked out that would accept me had watered down their doctrine too much to be recognizable. I then stumbled upon the concept of progressive evangelicalism. I have found a church that preaches and demonstrates total acceptance of the lgbtq community while keeping Christ the center. From the moment I entered their sanctuary I knew that I had found a new home. It adds a hundred miles of driving to my Sunday routine but it is worth it.
FYI, I just finished reading a book written along the lines of progressive evangelicalism. Its title is "Searching for Sunday" by Rachel Held Evans. I found it a very good read and it helped me understand a lot about my searching for God and a loving church home.
Hope it helps, Anne
QuoteBut I do believe in Catholicism that you need to have true contrition to have a valid confession.
Yup. Right out of the Catechism:
Quote1451 Among the penitent's acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again."
How can I have a "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed" by simply existing as God created me? Would I not be detesting one of the works of the Lord?
John 9:
QuoteAs he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him."
This is one of the key things that drove me to explore and seek out other theologies.
Oh, the original question! On community and spirituality, well, that is exactly what I'm looking for, as well as being accepting of me, a transgender person obviously in transition.
I've found the Unitarian Universalist congregations to be very accepting, open places. They are very much focused on community building and community service, and encourage spiritual growth and exploration without any ideological mandates beyond their basic principles:
http://www.uua.org/beliefs/what-we-believe/principles
I had high hopes for this Pope as well. I gave him the benefit of doubt that he could only move the church so far, so fast. Unfortunately, he is totally uninformed about what being trans is all about. He sites Benedict in his condemnation of people "being taught to chose their gender." He seems to intimate that it is some type of ideological agenda being funded and pushed on kids. This guy is the leader of millions of people and doesn't take the time to research the truth. It is inexcusable to misinform so many about the most vulnerable people out there. We don't have a hard enough time as it is? Someone will experience hurt or worse because of this recklessness.
Sorry, no offense to anyone's personal beliefs here, but this is how I see it. Peace and love!
Monica
Church teaching on homosexuality is doubtful to change Monica :). Agree with or not some of these views are ones the church as held for 100s of years and doubtful to change. Many people say the church should get with the times and not be against contraception, the act of homosexuality. But theyre not one to do that, and go by tradition.I'm not saying I agree with everything they do but, I applaud there solid stance on issues. Regardless of I agree with there teaching on it.
Quote from: Michelle_P on December 09, 2016, 08:52:34 PM
Yup. Right out of the Catechism:
How can I have a "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed" by simply existing as God created me? Would I not be detesting one of the works of the Lord?
John 9:
This is one of the key things that drove me to explore and seek out other theologies.
Oh, the original question! On community and spirituality, well, that is exactly what I'm looking for, as well as being accepting of me, a transgender person obviously in transition.
I've found the Unitarian Universalist congregations to be very accepting, open places. They are very much focused on community building and community service, and encourage spiritual growth and exploration without any ideological mandates beyond their basic principles:
http://www.uua.org/beliefs/what-we-believe/principles
well the church teaches that we inherited a strong inclination to sin from are first parents Adam and Eve. So i wouldn't say that just because were born a certain way that it does not make it a sin. It's not a sin to be tempted by it but actually doing it is otherwise. Why would God create you knowing that it's a sin? I don't know, that would definitely fall under his mysteries . But I am not trans, so I can only relate in my own way. I'm not trying to come from my personal view so much as what the church I go to teaches. But I understand where you are coming from def, I Have internal conflict between sexual desire and chastity, it's arduous but it's ok, part of life. Sorry if not clear or miss something, not great with smart phones. Esp I'm srs discussion
Quote from: Sowilo on December 09, 2016, 06:40:35 PM
yes the Church does not condone homosexuality/Trans and considers it a sin. But Ideally it loves people with Same sex attraction or Trans and wants to welcome them and love them just like anyone else who has fallen under sin no matter what the type.
So in other words the Catholic Church with it's "hate the sin, love the sinner" approach is telling trans people. "It's okay to be trans, but it is a sin, so you better knock it off."
Not sure how healthy that concept is to fully embrace from a psychological health perspective if in fact one is really transgender.
Actually, now that I think about it it sounds pretty toxic and I think it could lead to some very unhealthy outcomes. Pass.
I look at it as a parent that loves there child very much but at the same time the parent makes it clear that don't agree with there child's way of life but do it with love and support. And is there to help not chastise, but I understand the objection. I struggle In the chastity dept, and have a hard time with there view on contraception.
Quote from: Jane Emily on December 09, 2016, 10:09:28 PM
So in other words the Catholic Church with it's "Hate the sin, love the sinner" approach is telling trans people. "It's okay to be trans, but it is a sin, so you better knock it off."
Not sure how healthy that concept is to fully embrace from a psychological health perspective if in fact one is really transgender.
Actually, now that I think about it it sounds pretty toxic and I think it could lead to some very unhealthy outcomes. Pass.
Not sure? It's incredibly unhealthy.
I was 'caught' at age 15. I got to visit 'doctors' who didn't have exam tables, just chairs in a room with low light who wanted to talk to me. My parents were offered treatments for me. I think, thanks to Mom, that I was spared electroconvulsive and faradic aversion therapy, in favor of simple testosterone injections and counseling by the parish priest.
I was taught that I suffered from a perversion, but if I repented my sinful ways, I wouldn't go to Hell. So began almost 50 years of Hell on Earth, damaging me, and with my damage, hurting those I loved as I struggled with it. Now, by the sinful act of being honest with myself and finding treatment, I am condemned for all eternity. Thanks a bunch, Monsignor.
Why did the Creator make me this way? Who sinned, me or my parents, that I was born a transgender person?
Oh, 'original sin'? Because one of my ancient ancestors broke a rule, sinned, and so condemned all their descendants to be damned unless they joined the right club and performed the right rituals?
So much for what that nice Jesus person said. Misleading people with that "this happened so that the works of God might be displayed" nonsense! Hrmph! There ought to be some sort of punishment for misleading people that way.
As I said, I'm looking for a spiritual path that doesn't involve a mandate that I swallow whole some absurdly inconsistent and self-contradictory ideology. The whole "Welcome, thank you for your donation, you're going to Hell" thing isn't appealing to me.
I'm not going to get to into it, but like I said I appreciate you taking this seriously and being genuine. I def agree that Catholiscm is a package deal, where it seems like in some protestant churches or other paths it has more leeway we these thibgs, and you can pick and choose where with The Church, the teaching doesn't change. But yeah totally understand
I'm so sorry you had to endure that at the hands of that quote unquote "parent that loves there child very much."
Sounds absolutely medieval.
Quote from: Sowilo on December 09, 2016, 10:46:12 PM
where with The Church, the teaching doesn't change.
Now that's not entirely true is it? They did kind of disavow that whole Inquisition thing, although some of its torturers are still official saints. And the burning of witches. Oh and they finally gave up on their insistence that the Sun revolves around the Earth.
On confession. For many years I was a Protestant before I finally became a Catholic. Every week I did confess my sin of being trans to God and did feel real repentance. On occasion I even managed to remain "not trans" for up to three days before falling again. Finally, I came to the conclusion that this weekly repentance was a big lie to myself and to "God".
So I quit trying on my own and asked God for his help in "healing". That healing never came and God remained silent. The weekly confessional lies continued.
In the end I became Catholic for this, and other, reasons. Still no "healing".
The weekly confessional lying depressed me greatly knowing I was going to fail anyway and knowing God wasn't ever going to do anything to help. Hearing the constant barrage from the religious about how I and others were choosing to reject God only added to this sense of despair.
In the end the only possible conclusions were that either St. Thomas was correct about predestination and that I was predestined for God's rejection or alternatively that whatever God there is has absolutely no resemblance to anything contained in Christianity.
This decision was not reached because of a desire to sin or because of a desire to reject God or even from a lack of Christian knowledge. Rather it came from my learning and knowing exactly what Christianity was and reaching a rock bottom pit of despair because the God of that Christianity apparently did not care at all about me. He allowed me to be born with this, ignored my pleas for help, told his followers to hate me and those like me, and condemned me to eternal torture. Weekly communion was just a reminder of my sentence of death. There is no hope there. There is no joy. There is no light. There is only darkness and hopelessness; rejection and despair.
Unconditional love is not unconditional when it comes with the condition that I become something that is impossible for me to become. Love is not love when my genuine pleas for help are discarded for decade after decade.
Love the sinner and hate the sin is no comfort at all when the sin that is hated is not something I do but rather something I am. I AM THE SIN.
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves
Hi all,
This topic has derailed into something that doesn't fit the original purpose of my thread. Posts as old as this one shouldn't really be brought back to life in the first place (you can make your own!), and the posts that have been added since it was brought back continue to get less and less helpful in the context of the original question.
Thread locked.