Suppose a scientist creates a pill that will make all gender dysphoria issues vanish instanly upon ingestion. Would you take it? If you have already transitioned, would you have taken it?
The reason I ask is when my therapist first cast doubt on my dysphoria I felt quite upset and she seemed a bit perplexed about that and seemed to think I should be relieved. But in a way I hate the idea of being happy as a male, I feel I'd refuse such a pill if offered. Is this a strange way to feel?
Not at all. If there was a pill to make me a happy cis male, I would not take it. Because such a treatment might eliminate my dysphoria, but the price to pay would be that I would no longer be "me." My personality would have to completely change for me to be comfortable as a cis male. So I'd rather be an unhappy me than a happy somebody else.
I'll be looking at this thread every once in a while. I have to wonder though, for those who say no, what if your brain changes for some reason and you're no longer transgender? Would you still be "you"? This is coming from someone whose sexual orientation had died about 4 to 5 years ago.
Well let me quickly wander into the weeds of this question that pops up frequently. A "cure" suggests a disease process and remedy for something that is wrong, bad, harmful and unwanted. History for us includes electro-shock therapy and worse cures inflicted by the protectors of normal. Often disregarded is the known efficacy of counseling, HRT, transitions and more that can afford us happiness and full participation in community and personal development. A cure is too often part of "magical thinking" when we imagine magic wands and magic spells and pills that do it all in an instant flash. Good for a fairy tale but IRL? We know this process takes time and real work to succeed.
Rather than a device for eliciting thoughtful dialogue we often go to a defensive and angry posture about those that would cure rather than love and accept the diversity we represent and is part of the natural adaptation of species through time for survival.
Perhaps your hating "the idea of being happy as a male" suggests you are transgender and therefore not so strange in these parts?
Quote from: Reptillian on March 30, 2015, 10:54:27 AM
I'll be looking at this thread every once in a while. I have to wonder though, for those who say no, what if your brain changes for some reason and you're no longer transgender? Would you still be "you"? This is coming from someone whose sexual orientation had died about 4 to 5 years ago.
We all change over time. I mean transition has changed me so much I can't even recognize the person I used to be anymore. I think it's a continuity thing maybe, where I was still me back then, still a woman underneath, just trying to pretend not to be, and living with a different mix of hormones. That same person being put into the circumstances I am in now becomes the person I am now. And its the version that lets me be the best version of myself I can be.
If you take a pill and step out of the natural progression of your own personal evolution and become something you never were, that feels different. It feels like you lose yourself in the process.
I would absolutely not take the pill. I am me, and I have no desire to change my gender identity.
TBH, I don't know if I'd have even wanted a pill that could change my body before I grew up. My first transgender feelings were childhood fantasies about a device that would change my body and "magically" (technological magic in my narrative) change everyone's memories so I would not have to explain the change. Well, it would change everyone's memory except mine. From the beginning, I have had a strong attachment to my personal history, and I would not want to forget or pretend I had never lived in a male body or filled a stereotypically male social role. If I could take a pill now that would change my body without the discomfort of GRS (etc), then sure. But my life has been wonderful as I've lived it, and I would not consider it an improvement to have been born differently.
I wish people would stop describing this hypothetical as a "cure." I think most people would be far less comfortable asking hypothetical questions about "curing" homosexuality, or "curing" people who vote Republican, or "curing" people with the wrong color skin. It's a flat out offensive word, and no amount of hypotheticals and scare quotes "cures" that. I'm glad your post, at least, was better phrased..
Apologies Jeni, I did not mean to cause offence. Should have tried a bit harder to think of a better word.
Anyway I'm glad most of you seem to be on the same page as me.
I wouldn't have taken the pill either. We are who we are and something through transitioning we come to terms with.
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I remember a similar thread from a few weeks ago, and my answer is the same as what others have said. I wouldn't want such a pill either.
Unless this pill which makes gender dysphoria vanish is nothing but a pill for HRT or even better an instant transformation, in which case I'll take it without hesitation. :)
But realistically speaking, the idea of a 'cure' is not just repulsive by itself, but it also usually implies that there will be some 'collateral damage' along with the 'cure'. That is why any such 'cure' even if it works would change us so fundamentally that we might not be the same person any more. e.g. it might change how we feel / think / love etc. Not many of us would want that.
If there were one I could have taken before transition, yeah, I would have taken it in a heartbeat. To me, being trans sucks, but I got dealt that card and I've been playing it the best I can, but if I could have been handed another hand early enough, I would have gladly played that one instead.
I would take a pill that somehow performs SRS. A pill to make me want to be a guy? No way.
I'd take it... Double dose just to be sure.
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A pill to make me comfortable in my own skin, not have to deal with the incredibly daunting idea of being openly trans and struggling through a slow and expensive transition, and avoid all the horrible crap I'm putting my girlfriend through? Absolutely I'd take it.
No freaking way. I'm awesome just the way I am.
I guess yes, but I'd rather not... But it would be so much easier.
some years ago I might have said yes but today I rather want a pill to cure transphobia. I don't have a problem being trans, the world just tend to have a problem with me.
Quote from: cindy16 on March 30, 2015, 12:09:05 PM
I remember a similar thread from a few weeks ago.
Do you mean this thread (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,183618.0.html)?
As far as I'm concerned, the question is the same, and my answer is the same.
However, if there were a pill to change my body from male to female (even a woman of my age and condition),
that I would take.
I'd go for the pills that make you larger or smaller so I could fit down the rabbit hole
My female side is the most beautiful part of me. Making me cisgender in my birth sex would kill that.
However, I didn't have the usual sort of gender dysphoria. I didn't hate being a man. Didn't mind it actually. I hated not being a woman, if that makes any sense.
If it was before my name change/starting hrt - absolutely, without a second thought. But now that ship has kinda sailed.
When I first started trying to seriously deal with being transgender ... I was scared out of my mind. Just look at my early posts. I probably would have taken it less out of want and more out of panic.
Today?
No. Regardless of dealing with issues with my wife, my daughter's school (her teacher seems to be taking issue with me... they called my daughter in to talk to a social worker the day after I showed up to pick her up, despite there being no problems with her behavior and her performance in school has actually increased since I came out to her and her teacher knew about me being transgender months in advance), all the frustration with medical expenses, my wife not managing our bills properly for several months causing my health insurance to get canceled (She still has total control over our finances), speech therapy, medications, coming out ... despite all of it ...
I feel so much better today than I did 3 weeks ago and wouldn't give up being true to myself for the world. I'll take it with all the horrible awkward stressful choices any day over a cure for that.
Quote from: Asche on March 30, 2015, 06:47:48 PM
Do you mean this thread (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,183618.0.html)?
As far as I'm concerned, the question is the same, and my answer is the same.
However, if there were a pill to change my body from male to female (even a woman of my age and condition), that I would take.
Yes, that's exactly the one. I now read my earlier response, and it was a little more long-winded but still said the same thing. :)
20 months in and all I feel I have achieved is swapping one social incongruence for another and hurt my wife. So if I could go back to the point before I had shared my secret with anyone and take the "cure"? I believe, in my circumstances, it would be selfish not to.
Quote from: Kiera85 on March 30, 2015, 10:43:16 AM
Suppose a scientist creates a pill that will make all gender dysphoria issues vanish instanly upon ingestion. Would you take it? If you have already transitioned, would you have taken it?
No, because this is the only way I can exist. If I were fully male or fully female, either way my personality and the whole essence of who I am would be completely different, and so I wouldn't be me, I'd be a totally different person.
Overall, I think if I had the same brain but had been born with female genitals, assigned female at birth and regarded as a tomboyish lesbian woman by everyone around me all my life rather than a feminine man, I'd have had a happier and less traumatic life, but that's mainly because people tend to react a lot worse towards feminine men than they do towards tomboyish women. I'd probably still have had some feelings of dysphoria.
I would prefer a "magical pill" that pregnant women could take to ensure that their baby was born with matching sex and gender. Wouldn't that be great? We would all be who we are, minus the dysphoria and loads of time spent trying to be comfortable with ourselves.
Quote from: fallofadam on March 31, 2015, 10:16:20 AM
I would prefer a "magical pill" that pregnant women could take to ensure that their baby was born with matching sex and gender. Wouldn't that be great? We would all be who we are, minus the dysphoria and loads of time spent trying to be comfortable with ourselves.
That's the only kind of "cure" I would approve of, although I think it's more of an anti-pill since we've become a lot more common since medicine started trying to intervene in births. Detection and abortion is not a cure, rewiring is not a cure. Those are this side of genocide. Honestly, I know what the males of my family are like. Be like them? Umm... no, h**l no!
Quote from: Dee Walker on March 31, 2015, 10:22:16 AM
That's the only kind of "cure" I would approve of, although I think it's more of an anti-pill since we've become a lot more common since medicine started trying to intervene in births. Detection and abortion is not a cure, rewiring is not a cure. Those are this side of genocide. Honestly, I know what the males of my family are like. Be like them? Umm... no, h**l no!
Touché. This is 100% hypothetical, of course. The only "cure" is that people just be supportive and allow people to be comfortable in their own bodies, whatever that means for them.
Quote from: fallofadam on March 31, 2015, 10:45:06 AM
Touché. This is 100% hypothetical, of course. The only "cure" is that people just be supportive and allow people to be comfortable in their own bodies, whatever that means for them.
True, but hypotheticals like this have a habit of becoming reality at disconcerting times. Best to be prepared. Can you imagine the consternation? I thought about taking this further, but I fear it might be triggering to others. The little scenario I came up with kinda disturbed me so I won't type it!
Quote from: Dee Walker on March 31, 2015, 11:03:00 AM
True, but hypotheticals like this have a habit of becoming reality at disconcerting times. Best to be prepared. Can you imagine the consternation?
Touché. Said pill would probably interfere with other things. It's best to just let nature do its thing and then do what is natural and comfortable for us as individuals.
Quote from: skin on March 30, 2015, 10:51:33 PM
If it was before my name change/starting hrt - absolutely, without a second thought. But now that ship has kinda sailed.
I was going to say this almost word for word! I'm waaaaay past the point of no return.
This question has been asked many many times here already.
Actually, after thinking about this, I realize my objection to a "cure" is deeper than I had thought.
You see, as far back as I can remember, I've been in rebellion not just against the shackles of my assigned gender, but against the whole gender edifice. Why must people be constrained to have their bodies, their personalities, their preferences, their social roles, their abilities, and everything that makes them unique human beings be constrained to fit into one of two boxes? It's Procrustes all over again, except with a choice of two beds instead of only one.
In fact, my deepest reservations about transitioning center around my fear that I'll be trading a male Iron Maiden for a female one.
IMHO, the whole idea of "curing" transgender people is an act of violence against humanity's humanity, rather like how in Brave New World people are drugged and conditioned from birth to be "happy" in their assigned caste. How is it any different from remaking African-American's minds to make them happy being slaves? Or remaking women to be Stepford wives or fembots (http://www.sinfest.net)?
I am adamantly against the idea of requiring people who don't fit to be remade, simply so members of the dominant group don't have to think.
>:(
end{rant}
Quote from: Kiera85 on March 30, 2015, 10:43:16 AM
Suppose a scientist creates a pill that will make all gender dysphoria issues vanish instanly upon ingestion. Would you take it? If you have already transitioned, would you have taken it?
The reason I ask is when my therapist first cast doubt on my dysphoria I felt quite upset and she seemed a bit perplexed about that and seemed to think I should be relieved. But in a way I hate the idea of being happy as a male, I feel I'd refuse such a pill if offered. Is this a strange way to feel?
A year ago, maybe.
Now, no.
After I "finish" my transition, hell no.
I have felt since a young age that we are much more than just the physical and standards of others and our built limitations..
Pretty much we are here to experience this for a reason.. Trust, doubts of 'why me' 'change me'..
Even the idea your brought up though, yes, I would become cis and live the life I currently cannot see myself living..
I have had a whole community try and change me, doubt myself in suicidal ways, and desperately blame my past on why I am who I have always been, before, during and after it all!
Believe.. Feel yourself out whether you 'pass' or 'not'.
No I do not know you personal, and I cannot see you, but see your beauty!
Yes, even if you bake cupcakes and go about your community giving them away.. 'Here eat my cupcakes of Love'
You get me ;)
No.
I suppose if I had the option to do that way back in High school I would have- but I didn't even know I was transgender then. My therapist and I discussed my vanity a bit and asked if I'd rather be an attractive cis female or (to me) an unattractive cis man. It actually made me think, but really I'd rather be a man under just about any circumstances but I'm also very happy with my life overall. I wasn't raised to be especially girly and since I'm fairly flamboyant dressing up and wearing makeup could be a lot of fun. I just hated the idea of doing it everyday, if that makes sense. I still would have felt much more comfortable in a male body, I think, but my experiences have made me stronger and more contemplative. I feel like I can relate to people of all kinds a lot easier having been a young woman and now becoming a slightly older man.
It's a bit cheesy or weird but there are shamen/magic workers in different tribal societies who are not typically gendered. They have or had a bit of an outsider view of the world and are revered and sometimes feared, always respected in those cultures. Even cultures that are more conservative than the USA can have very open and accepting view of people we would call transgender, but do not carry the stigma or shame that other cultures have associated with being differently gendered. I really like to think of being transgender as an eye opening experience whenever I can and it helps a lot. To be honest I have heard the same about maladies such as Schizophernia- schizophrenics in places like India seem to be much less distressed over their disorder and are not shunned by society by hearing voices or seeing things others cannot see. It is just accepted. So I kind of feel like I've grown up in a more accepting environment, which was both helpful in regards to avoiding a lot of stress but a little unhelpful in that I didn't feel so out of place until recently that I might have started transitioning earlier. Who knows??
Quote from: Aazhie on April 01, 2015, 01:32:42 AM
Even cultures that are more conservative than the USA can have very open and accepting view of people we would call transgender, but do not carry the stigma or shame that other cultures have associated with being differently gendered.
schizophrenics in places like India seem to be much less distressed over their disorder and are not shunned by society by hearing voices or seeing things others cannot see. It is just accepted.
Not exactly true.
Regarding schizophrenics or people hearing voices or seeing things, I'm not sure but there may have been cases where some people may have turned this to their own advantage or learnt to control it or act in a way that others revere them or fear them. But it is much more common for people with such disorders to be simply shunned and thrown out of their homes and not have any access to medical help.
The same goes for transgenders. They have existed here in mythology and history, and many of them still live in separate communities with some cultural significance, i.e. their presence on important occasions is supposed to be auspicious etc. But nowadays they are mostly seen as a nuisance, and anyone wanting to join such communities is likely to be shunned or chased out of their home and may not have any access to jobs, medical help or any other public facilities. It is slowly changing now but the point is that TGs having some historical or cultural significance does not necessarily lead to people in day-to-day life being more accepting or tolerant of them.
SRS scares the crap out of me as it should, but not having SRS also scares the crap out of me.
Quote from: Amy The Bookworm on March 30, 2015, 11:20:20 PM
When I first started trying to seriously deal with being transgender ... I was scared out of my mind. Just look at my early posts. I probably would have taken it less out of want and more out of panic.
Today?
No. Regardless of dealing with issues with my wife, my daughter's school (her teacher seems to be taking issue with me... they called my daughter in to talk to a social worker the day after I showed up to pick her up, despite there being no problems with her behavior and her performance in school has actually increased since I came out to her and her teacher knew about me being transgender months in advance), all the frustration with medical expenses, my wife not managing our bills properly for several months causing my health insurance to get canceled (She still has total control over our finances), speech therapy, medications, coming out ... despite all of it ...
I feel so much better today than I did 3 weeks ago and wouldn't give up being true to myself for the world. I'll take it with all the horrible awkward stressful choices any day over a cure for that.
Can the pill delivery be made into intramuscular injections? :)
NO
I don't want to be "cured" of this. Now, if a pill existed that could make me a cis-woman, I'd take that in a heartbeat...that is the only thing that would "cure" me...
Yes I would instantly.....I am very angry about being raised male and that girlhood is something no amount of surgery or hormones can give me.
I would take the "magic pill" if it wold make all that go away. ;D