I'm just some what curious , it seems there is such a torment for those who can't sound like Joni Mitchell to the point that they would not transition. I truly understand the need to be invisible and sound perfect. The videos I've seen of voice surgery are amazing, but personally I can never do that unless someone leaves me a lot of money. I'd love to be perfect and navigate womanhood without any ripples, but that wont happen . I no now that I can navigate the public without any seeming hint of be transgender , but if I have to speak more the a few sentences I'm doomed. I've just come to the conclusion that I'm transgender and I have a weird voice for a female, but that definitely for me doesn't out weigh my need to transition. Just a little curious on a scale of 1 to 10 , 10 being de-transition time where would you consider the importance of voice towards your determination to transition.
It would not stop me.
But consider the following link.
http://feminizationsecrets.com/top-10-women-with-deep-voices/
It was certainly a mitigating factor in my decision not to detransition the first time I tried. I mean I didn't sound like Barry White or anything and I could do a reasonable enough job to make my voice pass kind of but I really hated it at the time. There were many reasons I detransitioned and that was one of them.
Quote from: LizMarie on March 30, 2015, 06:51:19 PM
But consider the following link.
http://feminizationsecrets.com/top-10-women-with-deep-voices/
I don't know if any of those ladies would be misgendered on the phone though...
Eve,
I have been working at the same place for 27 years. There are 14,000 employees and I interface with a lot of people. My female voice (I have been practicing for 2 years and I am thinking of lessons) sounds good but not as high as a woman's. It does not pass. I have always had it in my head when I express at work I would have my old voice. Unless I had VFS in which case it would be known and an opportunity for a clean break. So voice at work would not be the issue.
Everywhere other than work would be an issue. I would not de transition over that.
I used to work in the same office as an English cis-woman who had a lowish toned voice and she was forever getting mis-gendered on the phone. We used to laugh about it actually. Telephones do not pick up the higher tones in any voice very well so they tend to make everyone's voice sound not the best.
My job involved using the telephone a lot so by sheer practice I learned how to sound more or less acceptable on the phone. Face to face no one had any problem with my voice, though clients were always asking at reception for the 'tall Dutch lady' (I'm not Dutch) and even some Dutch people would ask me if I'd immigrated from Holland. Don't ask me what I was doing, that's just how my voice sounds!
Sometimes, especially if I was tired, folk would get my voice wrong when I was using the phone. Usually when I gave my name which is 'Anne' by the way, I would get 'Ian' back from the person on the other end. I made a habit of always correcting them even if I had to spell my name out to get the point across. Sometimes the caller would get a bit too invasive over why my voice was the way it was and I would simply tell them that I was going to end the call which usually worked just fine to get them back on track.
Would I have ever gone back to living a lie because of my voice. The quick answer to that is 'No'. Nil bastardo carborumdum was my motto back then, - don't let the b@stards grind you down. True enough I became so anxious sometimes I was terrified to speak during my first two years, but I knew for certain that going back to trying to be a fake male was the worse option.
yea, I've been caught in situations where I've had to talk more then I expected to and I think I've done all right . but I don't really know. I just hope for the best
nope never, i could never imagine going backwards even in the slightest
I wouldn't detransition if someone put a gun to my head.
This does not affect me as I am a voice actor (who does not get paid) I very much like my voice. However it DOES bother me that I don't know how to truly speak like a woman yet, so there is that problem.
...No, I would keep working on it. I think most people can develop a female voice, it just takes patience, practice, and devotion.
H_LL No, (gosh, do not want to swear here) They have to have "something" to worry about >:-) >:-) >:-). Dani
Quote from: kittenpower on March 30, 2015, 08:48:49 PM
...No, I would keep working on it. I think most people can develop a female voice, it just takes patience, practice, and devotion.
This ^ like you really have to dedicate yourself to it. Voice training isn't something that you can slack off with. You have to put the time in else you won't see results at all.
My voice was my main worry going into transition. So I started training right away. After about two years I achieved my girl voice and that was before I started hrt too. That old voice of mine was very deep. It didn't help that my voice had dropped at an early age around 14 so yeah training my voice was one of the hardest things I've ever done. If I hadn't been so adamant about training, my transition as a whole would of been really difficult. Even possibly to the point of going back to some degree.
I usually just try to borderline soft voice a couple octaves higher and hope for the best.
What's a 'male' voice? What's a 'female' voice? There's a whole lot more to it than just pitch..
I've got a lowish pitch, but I've been told by several people, including a speech therapist, that, pitch aside, my voice is clearly female.
Make of it what you will.
I wouldn't de-transition for any reason. I have a pretty deep voice and I work in a call center so I get called "sir" 30 or 40 times a day, however I haven't been mis-gendered in person in over a year despite my voice. I can get my voice into Katherine Hepburn or Lauren Bacall range but I'm not able to speak at an adequate volume when I do. I think I really need to find a speech therapist that will work with trans clients.
Without even touching pitch, adjustments in resonance, cadence, intonation, and rhythm can alter a voice from male to female, assuming a voice is not ultra low male to start with. Resonance (chest resonance) is one of the largest audible indicators of a male voice. Get rid of that and you've made huge strides right out the gate. Resonance alone is occasionally enough for some people, though most of us need a bit of everything to make it all click.
My understanding (and someone who has been to Yeson can correct me if I am wrong) is that Yeson deals primarily in pitch. Dealing with resonance and the other issues are still candidates for voice therapy with a speech therapist.
Quote from: kelly_aus on March 30, 2015, 09:11:49 PM
What's a 'male' voice? What's a 'female' voice? There's a whole lot more to it than just pitch..
I've got a lowish pitch, but I've been told by several people, including a speech therapist, that, pitch aside, my voice is clearly female.
Make of it what you will.
But it's still one of the main gender markers in voice, as long with resonance. If pitch is too low, your voice will be perceived as male on the phone. Inflection doesn't make one's voice sound female.
To the OP, no, I wouldn't because my voice is naturally high. I am mam'd on the phone and I don't do any effort at all. But remember it has the flipside coin: I was bullied for this and other things, for being so femmie. So it's not all roses and butterflies.
Quote from: Auroramarianna on March 31, 2015, 03:44:05 AM
But it's still one of the main gender markers in voice, as long with resonance. If pitch is too low, your voice will be perceived as male on the phone. Inflection doesn't make one's voice sound female.
To the OP, no, I wouldn't because my voice is naturally high. I am mam'd on the phone and I don't do any effort at all. But remember it has the flipside coin: I was bullied for this and other things, for being so femmie. So it's not all roses and butterflies.
I forget the last time I was misgendered on the phone, except by someone who had a screen in front of them that ID'ed me as male..
There is no way that I would de-transition because my voice didn't pass. If anything, I would target that area of transition until I was satisfied that it was near my idea of perfect.
I sound like Lemmy from Motorhead.It's not stopped me or going to make me
I wouldn't detransition but my life would be less than ideal. I speak publicly and also on media such as podcasts, amateur and even broadcast radio. I may make TV appearances in the future if it's any indication too. So my voice can't be "off" which is why I'm having the surgery.
Plain and simple? It's a major barrier to further transition beyond (mostly ineffective) hrt.
Quote from: kittenpower on March 30, 2015, 08:48:49 PM
...No, I would keep working on it. I think most people can develop a female voice, it just takes patience, practice, and devotion.
Yes, I'd say it takes consistency... its not a lot of time daily, especially in the beginning, but a few minutes every day...
never overstrain your voice...
and there are many things... using more indirect language... maybe a bit breathy talk... more ups and downs in intonation...
hugs
Quote from: Jill F on March 30, 2015, 08:39:23 PM
I wouldn't detransition if someone put a gun to my head.
What she said ^
I do have to say it is one of the things that just riles me up. I loathe being misgendered on the phone. I will have something surgically done to it eventually. But, if I had no way to alter it, I would just have to accept that --but remain transitioned. And funnily enough, my wife actually would prefer it if I did not raise my pitch. She def understands why I am bent on doing it, but she has grown accustomed to my voice over a quarter century. She says it does not affect her perception of me being a woman.
It's probably going to be harder with discipline for the kids since I won't have the male voice anymore. They don't listen to their mother but when I talk they stand at attention.
Quote from: ImagineKate on March 31, 2015, 09:59:29 AM
It's probably going to be harder with discipline for the kids since I won't have the male voice anymore. They don't listen to their mother but when I talk they stand at attention.
Ha! I know, right?! My dogs, too.
Quote from: evecrook on March 30, 2015, 06:16:15 PM
The videos I've seen of voice surgery are amazing, but personally I can never do that unless someone leaves me a lot of money.
It's what, something around $8,000 in Korea? Plus flight tickets, plus other expenses, you are looking at around $10,000, maybe little less. Everybody who is serious with their transition, and has the determination, can save $10,000 in less than two years...
There is also dr Haben in NY who may be a bit less because you don't have to travel to korea.
Quote from: mmmmm on March 31, 2015, 10:14:34 AM
It's what, something around $8,000 in Korea? Plus flight tickets, plus other expenses, you are looking at around $10,000, maybe little less. Everybody who is serious with their transition, and has the determination, can save $10,000 in less than two years...
to be perfectly honest , I'm 63 years old and living on disability and food stamps so it would be a challenge to save 10000 . I prefer to have Warren Buffett as a rich uncle
I get ma'med on the phone 100% of the time now. I'm now using my female voice when I speak to people in person more and more every day. And that's even when I dress in "boy mode". My voice would never be a determining factor for detransitioning.
Just recently, I've been using a handheld DVR and recording myself and playing back instantly. I can pull off either a really breathy femme voice or bubbly energetic voice, both of which are not very realistic for everyday speech. There are moments when I'm dead on bullseye female that even surprise me. I'm not all the way there yet though.
Quote from: ainsley on March 31, 2015, 10:03:24 AM
Ha! I know, right?! My dogs, too.
lol I remember when I was able to speak in my new voice but I couldn't yell at all without my voice dropping or even worst no words would come out. About a year or so later it became less difficult but still took effort and now I'm at the point where I can yell with ease. So yeah you can totally get the authoritative tone back, it just takes a long time.
As others have said, nothing would make me detransition... but it would certainly make my life inconvenient. (I also do public speaking appearances, including public radio as a political commentator and fairly regular teaching gigs at a college.) And it did take hundreds of hours of work to get my voice polished to the point that I can comfortably rely on it all day in those circumstances.
That said, my wife and I are both middle tenor range - and now that I don't do the male chest resonance anymore and *do* have feminine inflections (after several years, it's ingrained habit) she gets "sir" on the phone occasionally and I never do. When she's tired, she stops doing the feminine inflections and talking in a higher pitch, and occasionally cold callers call her by my old name! Clearly I'm fortunate enough to have started from a reasonable pitch, but in the end I settled on something that's lowish alto rather than trying for the highest pitch I can hold, and then worked on all the other details instead.
Im with big kim on this one. I do a damn good impression of james hetfield (lemmy too). Its not stopping me. Im just gonna work on it.
Most trans women I know IRL have non-passable voices. None of them seem unhappy in any way with their transitions. In fact, I've observed that non-passable trans women seem to be the happiest ones I know.
Hell No
My voice is naturally lower then most males. It takes time, it takes practice, it takes lessons of some sort, but it can be improved. A woman in my group can be even a far deeper baritone then I am, does a mean John Wayne, yet, you'd never know.
A very close female friend of mine, 6ft plus tall, big boned, very andro got misgendered a lot on the phone. Especially with a name like Francis. Ever hear a middle aged female pack a day plus smoker?
Voices, like anything else female vary all over the map. I no longer worry. Yet, as Ms Grace mentioned, when I was far younger, my voice and many other things readily added up DON'T!!! when I experimented with transition. As many have said before me, "Transitioning ain't for Weenies". And I was an Oscar Meyer Weener
I certainly wouldn't. There was a time early on where I passed but my voice didn't, and I never thought it would. I was seriously considering becoming a mute. However, I would sometimes have to talk in public when ordering food or talking to a salesperson, so I would quietly muster up the most feminine voice I could come up with. Never had any problems with it but didn't think it was passable. Then one day I got up the courage to talk like that in front of a friend, and I was convinced I was going to sound super fake and awkward. She told me I sounded normal and feminine. After the shock wore off, I kept using it with some encouragement from her. Took a little practice but I quickly 'perfected' it and have been using it ever since. I've even been told it's sexy by quite a few people. ;D So for me it just took some confidence and encouragement to really try. And now my 'natural' voice has changed from talking like this for a while. It's pitched up a bit, almost in between my old and new voices. Only real concern though is that if I'm around someone that I'm comfortable with, I find my voice pitches down a bit. I can get too relaxed with it. :/ And that makes me a bit paranoid and want to pitch it up higher than I normally would. Honestly, if I really try I can sound rather cute and feminine, but I'm more comfortable with a bit of huskiness to my voice. So I think the way I naturally talk now (with my new voice, but at whatever pitch it is without thinking or trying) is probably just right. It's comfortable and passable, so I don't really care if I sound as feminine as possible.