my first post, my husband came out to me, well multiple times in the last 15 months, and after 12 years of knowing him i just don't buy that he is transgender. let me explain. my husband likes women, no loves women. he loves strip clubs, porn, and any woman that is remotely attractive. a while ago about 5 years into out marriage i caught him cheating and we went to counseling and we worked out some relationship problems, and focus problems around what is important. so time passes and then he hits me with hes always been a women. ummm ok, i look at his childhood pictures and its all guy mode. he says, he always wanted to wear girl clothes, and wants to be called robin, hates his adams apple, etc.
so i went along with it and thinking about this made me angry, hurt, and just plain not buying it. so i called his bluff and told him, I'm not a lesbian, and that this isn't gonna work, and we should divorce. so he then back peddles and says he's not transgender, and was confused. so i told him i needed more and he explained that the whole idea came about. because, of the many things in his life he cannot explain, like wanting to wear girl clothes, wanting and gravitating to female things. i told em guys can like female things and not be transgender. to that he said thats true. so he saw a therapist who also supported me and said men have but female and male in them, same with women. yin and yang if you will. and it doesn't make a person transgender. the therapist also said that its fine and he's not transgender but balanced, and its ok to explore his female side some. so we did, he tried on some girl shoes, and pants, and i asked him how they made him feel and he said, silly. so.. we put it to rest. now months later its back, he says he wants to transition, and again i called him out, and now he says he is just confused, and just needed me to center him back.
so.... what is going on here? in my mind there is NO WAY he is transgender. am i wrong? i mean even therapist basically said he is not. i want my husband, and my life, and my sex with a male partner.
anyone else deal with this? did you help them to stay male, or let them transition? did you stay or leave? i cant imagine staying with my husband if he turned into a woman. sex will not be an option and im not attracted to females. to me, he is just ill. and i dont know how to snap him out of it. sigh...
thanks for listening and any advice.
Liking women means nothing. Sexuality and gender are completely separate things. Trans women can be lesbians and like women. It is perfectly normal. We dont have to fit certain narratives to be trans. Trans women can be into any of those things. Trans people can be trans even if its not 'obvious' to you. We can be too scared to show it or tell anyone so hide it by trying to pretend to be what is expected (dressing as a guy etc). It doesnt mean he isnt or never was trans. Childhood pics dont really mean anything. Known I was male since first conscious memory. My early pics wont show that because things were forced on me that I had no control over. Doesnt mean I wasnt trans then, I was
He might have said that because he was scared by your bringing up divorce so he tried to tone it down for you. Doesnt mean it was a lie, might just be fear at the moment. Yes men can be feminine and still be men. It comes down to does he just like that stuff or does he actually feel female inside? Thats the difference between gender expression and actual gender. They're not the same. Maybe he is unsure which it is right now and needs time to work that out. Therapists can certainly help but only if they are competent with trans issues. A general therapist who knows nothing about trans stuff is unlikely to be much help. If he really wants to work it out then it should be a gender therapist. No therapist should say someone is or isnt trans. Its no one elses place to say it apart from the individual. Only we know how we really feel. If they are so quick to say he isnt then I would be questioning the therapist here and how competent they are. Sounds like exploring it is definately needed to find out if transition is the right path or its something that doesnt need to go to that but can be explored in other ways. Ultimately only he can know that, therapists can just help to figure things out
No one can say for anyone else whether they are trans or not. Maybe you see what you want to see because of the set things you want. If thats not what he is then theres nothing he can do about that. Its who we are. We cant change that for anyone or shouldnt have to pretend to be something we're not. There is no 'help them to stay male'. That is the wrong thing to do. Its forcing them into something to suit yourself. No one should have to live like that. People have tried to force reparative therapy on us. It does not work. We cant be changed of who we are. We dont 'become' women or men. We already are. We align our bodies to match what we already are. Nothing more than that. If he is trans then 'he' already is a woman. But only he can find that out and know for sure. Trans people are not 'ill' and we cant just become cis. If he is trans theres nothing wrong with him. Scared to show it, express it, tell anyone, so we have to hide and pretend to be our birth gender to suit other people. There are relationships that survive this. Its dependent on the people involved. Ultimately we cant choose to change our sexuality so its understandable when things are no longer compatible. You cant make yourself be attracted to something you're not. If he is trans then it is something you will have to deal with. Those who stay may be more fluid in their sexuality and gender not bother them either way
Depending on what therapist you're seeing I would look into a gender one if it isnt already and spend more time trying to figure things out. He may or may not be trans. Only he will know that. Seems he needs more help to get to that stage of being sure though. He very may well not be trans but just into feminine things. If he isnt sure he needs help to figure things out before doing anything. Transition is very wrong for someone who doesnt need it. Do not rush into that when you're not sure. I hope he is able to figure things out either way and come to terms with things
Frankly, your opinion on the matter is immaterial.
Many of us have distinctly 'male' pasts, there are some ex special forces peoples floating around.. And cops, firies and any number of stereotypically 'male' occupations. I'm a trans woman who still has an interest in cars - including mechanical repairs. I've been known to enjoy a cigar and a single malt whiskey. None of which makes us any less trans. My sexual preferences have nothing to do with my gender, I just happen to prefer women. You'd never know to look at my past that I was really a woman, I wore the mask that society forced upon me quite well.
And as for your spouse backpedalling when threatened with divorce? Entirely understandable really, if you think about it..
Was this therapist a specialist in gender issues?
Thanks so much for the replies so fast, my husband will be home soon. To answer some questions. he saw a regular therapist that had an eastern medicine slant to her style, thus the yin/yang style discussions we had with her.
I'm not sure what to do, I suppose letting him see a gender therapist is the right thing to do, but I want to smack him. I just don't see it, and if he is transgender, then what? should I allow him to laser his face, he says he needs to start now, because his hair is starting to get gray in it and laser won't remove it.
Are we to grow old as a couple of ladies? I think I could do it, but I don't think sex would be in the picture. what am I supposed to do about that, self pleasure myself for the rest of my life? I'm not sure thats for me. And not having sex is out of the question... and what would our kids think (20 and 12, and 11). and seriously I don't see a pleasant future for him, I mean I don't see him as being a passing female ever, so people are going to be mean to him. Sigh..this is just a lot to wrap my head around. and what about our plans to retire and all that? now thats up in the air, we would have to find a place where we actually might be accepted. All this is a lot to take in, I love him, but it feels like a crisis to me.
First off, welcome to Susan's, glad to have you here :)
Well, transgender encompasses a vast spectrum and crossdressing is included within the transgender spectrum and there is nothing wrong with it, how far he feels he needs to go with it is up to him
Some couples like to use crossdressing and even role reversal to experiment, explore and understand these feelings, some say it adds a playful zing to their nightlife
Maybe play along and put on a suit and tie and see where it goes, might turn into something new and fun for the both of you
Hugs
Hi and welcome! It's not uncommon for transwomen to be attracted to women, nor for them to give the appearance of living "manly" lives (not doing so usually invokes bullying and ridicule). As mentioned above it really comes down to how they want to express their gender, they need to be true to themselves. And you need to be true to yourself too - if the transition processes and you find you are not attracted to them as a woman because you are heterosexual then it is your choice to decide to go within the relationship. Please don't use it as a bargaining chip or a threat, if you don't want to stay then just say so. Ultimately that would make things easier for you both. :)
I simply give my opinion...
its up to you what you do...
first transgender is an umbrella term including persons who show gender non conforming behavior. So crossdressers, androgynous people (meaning literally both man and woman ) , and many more are included.
You should think about visiting someone who has gender on their list. A good gender therapist should help sort this out and guide people along the way. This all might be a process, him trying out easy reversible steps and seeing how it makes him feel.
It might be possible he is content with an androgynous style for example, it might be possible he would like to fully transition.
The core of his person will stay the same, like a twin... with the same sense of humour etc...
You might ask plannedparenthood, a local lgbt center or transgender groups for a referral.
And you might ask them for their experience, and how they see their role.
If its connected with depression or emotional issues it might be covered.
Transgender people are sometimes told in their youth to adapt to gender roles. So they sometimes adapt to other peoples expectations, instead of talking it out. This might explain his going back and forth, which might be stressful for both of you.
For more thoughts you might look up a brochure for the british NHS called "doh-transgender-experiences.pdf" . Only thing I would disagree with is page 7, where they state stress, instead many experience relief.
Lesbian sex can be fulfilling and as well be penetrative. But its all up to you.
I'd say remember its a process... it might take some time to get used to a few ideas... and talk about it....
I know you are feeling hurt and totally thrown a curve in your life.
Unfortunately the only one who knows who they are is the person you feel strongly can not possibly be.
It will be a answer they need to answer and feel is why they feel the way they do.
->-bleeped-<- is of a large spectrum. Many have for so many years stuffed there feelings away to please the people around them. They truly try to live a lie for the sake of society and what society expects.
So.... as so many have suggested here. Find a Gender therapist is where I would start. One who has special training in Gender Dysphoria. GD has noting to do with sexual preference. That is a huge misnomer. ->-bleeped-<- is not about sex.
Please take the time to check out the SO section of the boards for others who have spouses or children who are dealing with GD.
For your reference please review,
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If you had met me 5 years ago, you would've said there's no way I could be trans. I can tell you that struggling with those kinds of feelings--yours and your husband's--is very painful.
I agree with the therapist's idea that men and women have "male" and "female" aspects, but that is normal, and does not make a person either male or female in their mind/soul. There are manly women, and effeminate men. There are people who have a male mind but have a female body, and those with a female mind but a male body. It's all about how we see ourselves. (And of course, there are those born "intersex" (previously known as "hermaphrodites"; this is considered inappropriate now). Quite the variety in gender+body presentations! :)
Of course, see a therapist who specializes in gender issues. Keep your husband informed as to what you're doing (if s/he isn't already actively looking for one). It's important that both of you have a safe "place" (physical, as well as mental/emotional safety) where both can say what's on their mind without threats of divorce, mocking or ridicule, suicide (yes, this might come up; stats show that 41% of transsexuals attempt or complete the act), etc.
Be safe with each other. Be loving. Yes, it hurts...but be aware this hurts your husband just as much.
Good luck! And please, come back if you have more questions, a need to vent, or just to let us know how things are! Welcome to Susan's!
--Beth
I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with this; your fear, hurt, and anger come through clearly, and I sympathize. It's scary to feel that the person you love might be someone different from who you thought he was. I'd ask you to consider this, though: he is who he is, and he's always been that person; that isn't going to change. What's changing is that he's getting in touch with parts of himself that he's hidden, perhaps from himself as well as from other people.
But he's just as scared as you are. Speaking as someone who has made the decision to transition, the absolutely hardest thing about making that decision, at least for me, was the fear that the people I love would be unable to accept me as I am. I've been very lucky that way, but not everyone is -- people do lose husbands and wives; sometimes they're estranged from their children; sometimes their parents and other family members want nothing to do with them. But people do it anyway, because it is that important. It's horrible to live your life pretending to be something you're not, and for many people it is literally a matter of life and death. It was for me. I felt completely worthless; I was depressed and very, very close to killing myself, and transitioning to male was my path out of that state and back to living.
It would be good if you could accept that his basic identity, whatever it is, isn't under your control. If your husband has "tried" to come out to you many times over the last year or so, there's something going on there, and it doesn't really matter whether you "buy" it or not. It's not up to you to decide who he is; the fact that you don't want him to be transgender has no bearing on whether he is or isn't. Along those lines, you've said a couple of things which really concern me.
"I suppose letting him see a gender therapist is the right thing to do, but I want to smack him."
"should I allow him to laser his face..."
Why do you feel that it's your choice whether he does these things? Why does he need your permission? These are things that are up to him. If you love him, support him in the choices he makes. They may or may not be ones you can ultimately accept, but it's vital to recognize that he has the right to make them.
Yes, he needs to be seeing a gender therapist, and from all you've said, it would be good if you were also seeing a therapist, probably not the same one. You have a lot of feelings to sort out, and a professional would be really helpful with that. I think it would also be helpful for you to have the kind of outside support which a good therapist can provide; knowing you're not alone, that you have someone to help you who is completely on your side, would make all of this a lot less scary for you. Please take care of yourself this way.
so.. I took my wedding ring off and put it back on, and took it off, and then put it back on. I'm partially a person who fixates on things, and so him coming out, over and over is made worse by me not being able to get it out of my head. What do I do, what is right for me, the kids, him. I feel like its a titanic moment where one of us will be in the boat and the other is in the icy water. yet I don't want it to be that way, maybe thats not a good analogy. b
My father is very dominate and is clearly the alpha with my mom, and I suppose I got some of that in me as well, the good news is that when my dad sits and thinks about things for a while, he usually calms down. I'm very like my father, yet I fixate and I'm emotional and all that, so life around our house is not a happy experience at the moment. I share the story about my dad, because that's why I say things like "should I allow him to laser his face" I guess I just want to be the final say in our marriage. To this date I have been, he bends a lot to me, but I'm usually right and he is wrong (I'm not kidding).
To share I've been reading a lot on this board, the coming out forum, the hormone replacement forum, and others, I've been on ->-bleeped-<- transgender spouses forum, I think its /r/mypartneristrans and I've now discovered youtube, for good and bad.
you know...I married him because I do love who he is, and I do want to be with him forever, and I do want him to be the FATHER/HUSBAND/MALE to our kids, not another mom. I can't imagine me with a woman, I suppose he needs to talk to someone but I KNOW they will basically say "yup you are transgender, go take hormones and start wearing dresses" and that kills me, its not fair, and I know things are changing, the world is becoming more accepting, but I come from a generation, where these mind benders were even talked about, or thought about.
Quote from: lostconfusedone on April 08, 2015, 02:33:02 PM
you know...I married him because I do love who he is, and I do want to be with him forever, and I do want him to be the FATHER/HUSBAND/MALE to our kids, not another mom. I can't imagine me with a woman, I suppose he needs to talk to someone but I KNOW they will basically say "yup you are transgender, go take hormones and start wearing dresses" and that kills me, its not fair, and I know things are changing, the world is becoming more accepting, but I come from a generation, where these mind benders were even talked about, or thought about.
A good gender therapist will absolutely *not* do that. A good gender therapist helps people to be true to themselves, and that may mean male, female, or something in between. You shouldn't be afraid of what will happen if your husband sees a gender therapist. You should be more afraid of the confusion, depression, unhappiness, and potential lies if your husband does not see one. If your husband decides to transition, your husband will still be the same person inside, but probably much happier and you might find that you really like that.
The personality of trans people does not change, except maybe for the better.
Can you be happy with your partner as a person instead of seeing them as a man/woman?
Explore your inner potential to love your partner unconditionally.
How far do you need to bend when you consider only the two of you?
The first lifeboat was half empty.
I tried to live as a man for most of my life because I was too ashamed to allow myself to be trans. But I couldn't hide behind a fake mask forever. Eventually it caught up with me and I'm better off as a girl even though I'm very early in my transition. I too am interested in women. I even got a girl pregnant once. If she hadn't miscarried I would be a parent. It was hard for me to accept myself to the point where I could live my life as a girl full time and I don't even have a significant other at the moment. I can't even imagine what it would be like to be living with someone and not being able to hide anymore.
Is your husband trans? I don't know. He might be. He might not be. I can't say as only he can say. Just be aware that its easy for someone to be in denial about themselves. If he said hes trans and then later said he isn't trans he might be afraid of being trans like I was.
Ok let me interject a few thoughts in the hope they might be helpful. So you can understand where I am coming from I'll preface my remarks by explaining that I'm an ultra longterm (30 years plus) post everything who in later life is now training as a doctor. I'm not yet qualified, so my thoughts carry no weight, but may, I hope, at least have a smattering of insight. These things are seldom straight forward I originally transitioned in my childhood, but even my emergence was not without its hiccups and setbacks.
So firstly I can fully understand that it will have been a huge shock, and the apparent oscilation may feel like a repeated injury. I am so sorry that you are having to struggle with this. Know one thing very clearly, like much in life it is not fair, or anyones fault. It just is what it is.
What I think you may need to consider is that this is someone who has had this as a guilty secret all of their life, and in bringing it out they become very vulnerable, so that any difficulties will tend to cause a reflexive withdrawl back into the shell. However the need to "emerge" is still there and so sooner or later annother attempt at emerging takes place. This is not because your husband does not understand the pain it causes, or because you are not loved. It's just part of the complexity of this condition, when it emerges later in life.
Most people of course have heard of the youngsters (as I once was). Those who "knew" from an early age. A few of us were lucky and got the freedom to express that there and then. Many did not, and as a result repressed the feelings often so deeply that they either lost sight of them, or held them in a dark corner of the mind. However what is sometimes not fully appreciated is that there are a group who simply never process the urges and feelings, they have, sufficiently to name them, and they can often emerge in later life. This does not mean they are not genuine. Merely that it has taken them until then to reach the level of emotional security and maturity that allows them to start exploring and processing this aspect of their makeup.
For some of them it is necessary to go on to transition, maybe take hormones, maybe even have surgery. For others it is sufficient to merely be able to express that side of their identity. There is no single right course or progression here.
Either way what treatment does is change the body. To some extent that can help liberate repressed parts of a someone's personality, things that they were previously embarrassed to express, so it can appear as if the personality changes, but fundamentally the treatment does NOT change who someone is. So I might argue that in a sense you have already been living with another woman, its just that the physical form, and a measure of social expectation, has disguised that from you. The core of who your partner is will not alter.
I suppose what I am saying is that the physical form may change - but person inside will not. Your husband will not suddenly become a stranger.
You asked specifically about lasering - the answer to that is diathermy electrolysis, which works equally well on white hair, however I think perhaps that is a detailed worry for little further down the track.
It is natural for you to feel confused, maybe even threatened by this. However the antidote to fear is knowlege and understanding, and in that respect you have come to a good place. I think also a gender counsellor may be of help, not only for your husband, but maybe also for you. Not because you need to change, but because they will be able to help you towards the knowledge that can dispell the fear and anger that it would be completely understandable for you to be feeling.
I hope that is of help. Of course I've never had to negotiate this situation, My 25 year long marriage took place long after I had my surgery and thus had completed my treatment. So the issue never arose. Sadly my partner is now deceased, however I have been active in supporting people going through this in the past, and hence I can understand just how scary and uncertain it can feel.
Take courage - there are no givens. Some couples do split up, others find ways to stay togther. Give it time, and keep talking, and the right course will become apparent. This is not the end, it is a new challenge.
Quote from: lostconfusedone on April 08, 2015, 02:33:02 PM
he needs to talk to someone but I KNOW they will basically say "yup you are transgender, go take hormones and start wearing dresses"
Well, I'm not shure how this things work in US or Australia... but here in Europe it is very unlikely something like this would happen. In most countries there is closed and very regulated, superwised process, which could take well over 2 years of psychiatric observation, before ANY hormonal treatment or any other medical intervention is approached. For a cases, when a person is younger as very obviously transsexual, yes there are no such waiting lines, you get hormones as soon as possible, and surgeries available. But for someone who managed to live 40 or something years and function as a male, and especially if their intentions profundly effect other people such as spouse and/or children, no steps are made until the situation is clear and all questions answered.
You and your husband are in a situation where you must approach this very smart. Find a psychiatrist who has a LOT of experience with transsexual people, and work on resolving this situation. This hasn't go away in the past, and it's very unlikely it will go away and never come back now. Even if you find out you husband really is transsexual it doesn't mean they need to transition and live as a woman. There are many non-transitioning transgender and transsexual people, and one must choose the path that works the best for them (and their family such as in this case).
It might vary from state to state, but here in Alabama, I was able to start HRT in less than 6 months of counseling. Granted I don't have a significant other or kids and I already support myself fully.
It certainly is not an automatic thing to get HRT. Therapy is designed to bring out what the patient truly needs, not how far they can push things. Some people are content with cross-dressing, others with earrings, nail polish, etc. and don't *need* HRT, The Surgery etc.
Then again, what is enough for today's needs, may not be for tomorrow.
Given the control issues you mentioned, I wonder if this is a trans issue, or a counter-control effort. One way to find out is to let your husband transition by degrees: conventional wisdom among TS people is to do things s-l-o-w-l-y, and allow oneself and others to adjust. Then, after the person who is doing the transitioning is comfortable with that level, ask if they need more...or if they're happy where they are. Let your husband control the speed and progress, with just a caution about taking it slow. (Don't make it a command).
As others have said, I think it's possible he is backing down b/c he's terrified of losing you. I sympathize with you in a lot of ways - I am a control freak as well, and I was just wrecked by anxiety and fear when my wife first came out to me - but you probably aren't going to be able to control whether or not he transitions. You can, however, suggest that you compromise on things like timeline and which changes come first.
Unfortunately, if you can't see yourself being involved romantically with a woman, that's not a good sign for the relationship; it seems unlikely that he'll be able to resist transitioning forever if that is indeed what he needs to do. And I'm not going to tell you you should be willing to be flexible; I don't think people's sexual orientations are up for negotiation against their will regardless of whether someone is gay or straight. Some straight women do manage to stay with a trans woman as a partner, but not everyone can do that, and that's not a sign that something is wrong with you.
(My wife didn't exactly "change her mind" about being trans, but she did insist that she'd be fine cross-dressing occasionally... every weekend... every day... OK, maybe she wanted to make *some* transition steps... and then eventually admitted she'd suspected all along that she'd need the full deal. I don't think she was lying to me, I think she was lying to HERSELF out of fear, but it was a very frustrating time for me. However, the lesson I took away from it is that denial + desire to keep your partner = downplaying stuff as much as possible sometimes. My wife had also given in to me a lot over the course of our marriage, but this turned out to be something she simply could not give up.)
I think she is a mtf lesbian. Gender: Female, Sexual Orientation: Lesbian. I know it's complex and mind-baffling but there are many like her here.
I know you're getting a LOT of replies, but I'm going to add a few things.
I knew I wanted to be male for my entire life. Everything I was interested in gravitated towards masculine things. As I grew up, I hoped I grew up to be more masculine. I got excited when I met females that were more masculine, and I got excited because I realized that there's a possibility of growing up to look masculine, despite being born assigned female at birth. My parent knew this, I was talking about it ever since I was 4.
Then, I hit puberty. I was very obviously female. I was very unhappy. "Transgender" was not something i'd even utter to my parents. Back then, I was so sheltered I had no idea it was possible, i thought "transgender" was simply somebody that crossdressed (which i technically already did.)
I had to choke it down, and try my best to just make the best of it. I was female and had no other choice in the matter. I would not transition smoothly, I'm short, I'm curvy, I have big boobs, I have a very feminine face.
Eventually, I said <not allowed> it. I'm not happy this way. As "female" as I can attempt to force myself to be, I am not happy with it, and never will be. I found out I can get hormones (once again, i was sheltered and very out of the loop lol) and started to pursue it. I was 17, and needed parent permission. They refused, and talked me out of it. They said it was so sudden that they don't believe me. I remember thinking, "All those years of awkwardly trying to force myself to be happy with it, and actually put so much effort into trying, and they don't believe me. "
They convinced me to put it off. I kept talking about it. I was told "If you still feel this way when you're 18, we'll support you."
18 came and went, they still kept saying the same thing, mainly because I liked to draw and I dated men. "That's too girly! You'd never do well as a guy." and they convinced me to put it off until i was 21. I tried so hard to be female. I lived as it, I tried to accept the fact that it may never change. However, I still wanted to transition by the time 21 came and went. They still didn't support me, mainly for the same reasons they stated previously. I focused on working on things myself. At age 22, I FINALLY started hormones. Happier now than I ever was.
Others have pointed it out, sexual orientation rarely matches up with gender. Personally, I go off of personality. The kind I go for tends to just be more common in men than women.
--------------
With that said, I've also been in your shoes. I've dated somebody that was a transwoman. I would have never guessed. This was back when I was trying to just be "female."
I thought it was a joke at first. Her body type was as masculine as it gets. REALLY buff, super tall, strong chin, everything.
I felt uncomfortable, but tried to support her. However, that's when she hit me with a lot of curve balls. There were interests she had that I had no interest in, and/or was very uncomfortable with. (shoe shopping, for example. Or wearing dresses)
She also acted more feminine, talked more feminine, etc. She started to get more sensitive.
Eventually, we mutually broke it off. Mostly, we started that relationship expecting hobbies/interests to be the same way as they were when the relationship started. The more I forced myself to do more "girly" stuff with her, the more uncomfortable I got with it. The more I realized "wow this sucks" and I wanted out of it. The more I looked at my own body and wish I could just swap it with her so we could both be happy. We're still great friends, we talk daily, but our interests and personalities have changed enough to the point that they no longer match up well enough to date.
Hopefully you won't have to go through that. I normally don't see it go down that road to be honest. The main problem I had was we had A LOT in common that ended up being things that my partner was forcing herself to do to be more "manly." So when those stopped, our interests were completely different. Her personality never changed. She never changed as a person. Her interests just changed. Since that was the basis of our relationship , it ended. However, we do not need that in order to be good people towards each other, be able to chat, and be able to support each other through our transition. Also, she has transitioned surprisingly nicely. You can only sort of "see" how she COULD have been the other gender if you were looking at her and thinking about it. Most transwomen I meet can pass just fine, but if you think about it too much, you'll subconsciously pick out things that remind you of old traits that can be seen as more feminine or masculine, and it will seem more exaggerated (even if they aren't to other people)
----------------
As a side thing, something I found that would have helped me a lot is to get my partner to write out a list of things they want to change about themselves. Ask "What changes do you want from your transition?" and tackle it on one step at a time. It won't all happen at once, remember that. See if there are any interests that they're forcing themselves to do. See if there are any interests they're holding themselves back from (more likely the case. Met plenty of females, even if they aren't trans, that love football or mechanics just as an example)
You may end up with more interests and hobbies that you can enjoy together.
Quote from: lostconfusedone on April 07, 2015, 05:51:15 PM
my first post, my husband came out to me, well multiple times in the last 15 months, and after 12 years of knowing him i just don't buy that he is transgender. .....................
anyone else deal with this? did you help them to stay male, or let them transition? did you stay or leave? i cant imagine staying with my husband if he turned into a woman. sex will not be an option and im not attracted to females. to me, he is just ill. and i dont know how to snap him out of it. sigh...
thanks for listening and any advice.
Support him, let him try being a woman with you both privately and publicly and see how it goes for both of you.
well...for me, i prefer women.. i think i was kind of in a similar situation. i had been in a pretty long relationship and when i came out to her she wouldn't accept it, so i tried to bury it. but....i just couldn't handle the suffering anymore so eventually i just had to break it off. and i know plenty of women that like other women and porn and all of that stuff, so it's not like it's gender specific or anything. i think too as far as me being in guy mode, i felt like i always had to overcompensate to be a guy. so just because they might not have pictures of them being fem or something doesn't mean that they hadn't been on their own time or in their mind.
great post. If you are still monitoring... I really appreciate your raw honesty. I have been married 18+ years, been out to my wife for the past several. I have heard many of the same concerns. She now is supportive but we still have not resolved all of the long term marital issues that come with full physical transition.
IMHO .. if you really want your marriage to work ... do not make quick decisions ... respect each others' pace ... you both may evolve and become less rigid in where you think your boundaries are ... over time your husband may find that he does not want/need full transition ... over time you may find that your soul mate and love of your life is a woman and want to be with her forever.
Rooting for you both (and your children) to be happy and fulfilled in this life and hopefully that is together.
When I read the title of this thread, I first thought my wife has posted here, but then on reading the post, I saw that most of the details were different.
To the OP, if you are still following this thread, welcome and thanks for being so honest.
I am on the other side of a somewhat similar situation, as my wife is supportive but does not believe that a physical transition is really necessary for me.
As others have said, it is finally for your husband to decide who he really is and what he needs to do. You or a therapist or anyone else can only help in that process but not decide on his behalf. There are many trans women here who are lesbian, including me, and there are many who have been or still are in very 'masculine' professions or have 'masculine' interests and hobbies. Others have already shared a lot of good advice, so I thought I'll just add my own experience here in case you want to draw some parallels.
My profession, interests, hobbies, feelings, emotions, thoughts etc have never been too 'masculine', but I still managed to closet myself so deeply that I did not realize my own gender identity until a few months ago. I've lived as 'male' all these years, dated and then married a lovely woman, and we are planning to have a kid soon, and most of my friends are male. I do resemble my mother and have some feminine features, and my wife has sometimes commented on them and said she likes it that way, but neither of us ever gave much thought to it. There is probably just one photo of me 'cross-dressing' as a kid, and that too along with my brothers because my mother and aunt thought it would be fun. Other than that, there was no reason for anyone else or even for me to suspect any 'gender issues' all this while.
But then a few years ago, I started becoming more and more curious about 'cross-dressing'. I finally started buying female clothes in my size instead of borrowing my wife's or anyone else's clothes. I've also always loved playing with infants, and when the option of being a parent came close enough, I caught myself wishing to have been born female so I could be a mother. And then, I started searching more and more for answers to what was going through my mind.
Did I have some hidden 'fetishes', related to 'cross-dressing' or imagining myself as a woman or something else? Was I gay or bisexual or something? Did I feel 'inadequate' as 'male'? Did I not love my wife any more? Was I confusing 'gender roles' or 'gender expression' with 'gender identity'?
One by one, I was able to resolve all these questions and realize that none of them led to the right answer. But in this process of searching for answers, for the first time I came to know that trans women could be lesbians, that many of them did repress their feelings all their lives and transition late in life, that many had managed to preserve their families and careers, that many of them could 'pass' as female even if they looked very masculine just a few years ago.
And slowly, it became clear to me that what I secretly wanted and wished for was not so impossible. Even more startling was this flood of memories all the way from childhood rushing back into my mind which showed me how I had often not 'fit in', how I felt 'different' but hid it from everyone else to avoid being ridiculed or harassed or bullied, how being around boys most of my life had just made me suppress so many things about me even from my own self.
Finally, I've come to accept that I am trans, and that my gender identity is and has always been female. Trust me, it would have been far easier to accept one of those other explanations, but then they were not true. It was a very troubling time for me, but I soon came out to my wife, and she's been very supportive so far of my feelings. She is OK with any cosmetic or reversible changes, but not with any physical or irreversible changes. To me, that's not enough, and I would rather go all the way, but I am taking my time figuring out how to balance this need with my need for a stable marriage and career.
I am not sure how much of this might be relevant to you or your husband, but I hope it is of some help anyway.
I can't get on here much due to family and trying to keep my own walls up I suppose and I want to stay anonymous, but likely he is reading this anyway, from work :|. I don't want my husband to go to a gender therapist, I'm worried they will just talk him into being transgender, I still don't buy it 100% I know him that well. we have been talking and not talking about it. we talk sometimes for a minute, other times for an hour. I asked him if he married me because he was seeking a mate that was open and strong and liberal so that he could eventually come out. He says yes he married me for my liberal ness, open ness and progressiveness but didn't marry me for coming out. Yet, I think... that some part of him was looking for a partner that would be able to weather and support him coming out.
My anxiety is pretty severe. I love him, but I can't get my head around it. I don't want to leave him, and want to be with him always but I feel like there is no future, I don't see a future now. And he now denies he was transgender but I can tell something is changed in him and there is no going back. so we dance. I want to run, but I want to stay, I want to be a fearless love, but then I want to be fearless and leave and start over with a man that is a man. Though at this point I'm about done with men.
<breathe>.....I really wish there was some switch I could flip in my head and it would be all clear for him to do what eve he wants, but there isn't.
so many of you have given good advice and thoughts, and comments. and some of them are of the "just do it" nike style, and believe me I want to be a "just do it" person, but I'm a @#%#% realist. a man (now woman) holding hands with another women, in our community would NOT go over well, and would cause trouble for our kids for sure. Its just a fact. and we can't up and move due to issues financially, as well as kids needs (they are doing well in school). and I like sex and I'm sure sex will take on a new dimension that I can't even imagine, and also may result in no sex, and no attraction to boot. Yet, if all things were different and no body gave #%#% about these things and I didn't have kds, it would be easier for me to say, 'sure..why not'. but its not the case due to all the variables that complicate this.
I really wish there was a silver bullet for me to say "@#% it, husband do what you need and I support you", but so far I can't find one. I suppose the closest thing right now would be for him to really see a Gender therapist versus a therapist, but I really do fear they will convince him versus try to talk him down from the ledge I believe he is on.
If you do not get some outside help with these issues i see you sliding down the slope of hate.
It happens so many times in relationships.
As your spouse can not deny who they are either can you and that is real.
You are looking at your relationship of how society will view it over how you and your spouse view it.
Now a strong suggestion from me is to stop the blame game. If your spouse is dealing with GD they have no choice. They where chosen at birth to have a medical condition that society seems to want to make un-acceptable.
Your spouse played along with society in brain washing of they must be X because you have X between your legs. Well gender lies at the core of the brain. It is our existence.
Please before you our your spouse does something you both will regret is to get yourself help along with allow him to get the help he needs. Not everyone with GD must or does transition.
Yes many do and they do it for there own happiness. Do you wish your spouse to be selfishly unhappy just to make you happy?
That's is my nickels worth. please seek out help.
Hugs
Could a therapist talk you into becoming a man? If not, I don't think one can convince him to transition if he's not willing, either. They may help him figure things out in a way that ends in transition, but it's pretty hard to brainwash someone into doing something THAT huge against their will.
You're in a very tough spot, and I feel for you. A therapist might be a good idea for you, too...
Quote from: lostconfusedone on April 07, 2015, 05:51:15 PM
my first post, my husband came out to me, well multiple times in the last 15 months, and after 12 years of knowing him i just don't buy that he is transgender. let me explain. my husband likes women, no loves women. he loves strip clubs, porn, and any woman that is remotely attractive. a while ago about 5 years into out marriage i caught him cheating and we went to counseling and we worked out some relationship problems, and focus problems around what is important. so time passes and then he hits me with hes always been a women. ummm ok, i look at his childhood pictures and its all guy mode. he says, he always wanted to wear girl clothes, and wants to be called robin, hates his adams apple, etc.
so i went along with it and thinking about this made me angry, hurt, and just plain not buying it. so i called his bluff and told him, I'm not a lesbian, and that this isn't gonna work, and we should divorce. so he then back peddles and says he's not transgender, and was confused. so i told him i needed more and he explained that the whole idea came about. because, of the many things in his life he cannot explain, like wanting to wear girl clothes, wanting and gravitating to female things. i told em guys can like female things and not be transgender. to that he said thats true. so he saw a therapist who also supported me and said men have but female and male in them, same with women. yin and yang if you will. and it doesn't make a person transgender. the therapist also said that its fine and he's not transgender but balanced, and its ok to explore his female side some. so we did, he tried on some girl shoes, and pants, and i asked him how they made him feel and he said, silly. so.. we put it to rest. now months later its back, he says he wants to transition, and again i called him out, and now he says he is just confused, and just needed me to center him back.
so.... what is going on here? in my mind there is NO WAY he is transgender. am i wrong? i mean even therapist basically said he is not. i want my husband, and my life, and my sex with a male partner.
anyone else deal with this? did you help them to stay male, or let them transition? did you stay or leave? i cant imagine staying with my husband if he turned into a woman. sex will not be an option and im not attracted to females. to me, he is just ill. and i dont know how to snap him out of it. sigh...
thanks for listening and any advice.
Its possible. Im transgender and I love women. Romantically/intimately and in the feminine things way as well. My belief, the fact that he (she) has come to you about this many times indicates to me that she is infact transgender. Most cis guys aren't exactly thinking about taking estrogen to transition into a female... Her going back and forth is probably a way to gauge your response to how you will take this and she is simply letting you in on it little by little. Also the fact that she was in guy mode for as long as she was, is really no indication to whether or not she is trans. If people knew who I was in guy form they would literally be appalled that I'm really trans. I've seen crazy transformations on the internet as well. Ex bodybuilders turned trans, biker gang members, and as well which often appears is ex-military. We are master ninjas lol. So all in all, don't doubt it just because you're now seeing it. I would sit him/her down and have a serious talk. It's the only way you're going to find out.
Also, there is alot of my, my, my in your post. Try and think about how your husband feels right now and the inner turmoil that he/she is going through.
Quote from: lostconfusedone on April 11, 2015, 07:14:46 PM
I don't want my husband to go to a gender therapist, I'm worried they will just talk him into being transgender
I suppose the closest thing right now would be for him to really see a Gender therapist versus a therapist, but I really do fear they will convince him versus try to talk him down from the ledge I believe he is on.
Others have said it before but I'll say it again - that's totally NOT how gender therapy works. From my own experience and what I have read about others here, a good gender therapist simply asks you the right questions, guides you in understanding and accepting yourself, warns you of possible pitfalls, makes you reflect on what you really need to do v/s what is just a fleeting desire, and for those who really need to transition and come out to others etc, maybe some advice on that process. If there are partners or other family members who also need therapy, they could help with that too. A good gender therapist is neither supposed to convince or push people towards transition nor dissuade them or be a gatekeeper.
I gave some examples above of the kind of questions I asked myself before I came to a stage of self-acceptance. I realized later that was important because there have been cases of people who transition for the 'wrong' reasons, e.g. they have some other hidden psychological issues, or are simply envious of the other gender without understanding what it takes to live as that gender, or some other factor which does not go away with transition, and in fact may get worse. A good gender therapist should be able to spot such things and help someone come to the right decision. But in the end, it is that person alone who decides, not the therapist, not their partner, nor anyone else.
From your posts, it seems like there is really a need for you and your partner to have an open and honest conversation, keeping aside any fears or worries of what others may say. Your partner definitely needs to see a gender therapist, and possibly you might benefit from it too. Only when both of you fully know and understand the reality of what is going on, can you honestly decide how to go forward and how to deal with others. Without that knowledge, it will be like groping in the dark, and will only lead to bigger issues of distrust etc.
My wife also initially did not believe that I was really trans*, and she still refuses to see a therapist. Since initially I was also still coming to terms with it and was still reading up on different 'theories' about trans* people that have been put forth over the years, I told her about some of them and she tried to slot me into one of the 'milder' categories which do not need to transition. Over the next many weeks, I slowly realized that many of those 'theories' are not really valid, that each one's experience is different, and that just because I had been able to suppress my true feelings all these years does not mean I can continue to do it in future as well.
My wife has realized some of this too, and we have agreed on some cosmetic, reversible changes just to see how it makes both of us feel. Maybe a bit of going out dressed in public in some place where no one knows us (e.g. maybe during a vacation) will also help me figure out if I really want to, need to, and can live as female. That's how we are taking things slowly and one at a time, even though I feel very certain that I want to fully transition.
Mind you, we too live in a place which is highly conservative and patriarchal, so living as a woman itself can be quite daunting, not to mention being perceived as lesbian or trans* which can be much worse. But we'll figure it out some way or the other. We are both financially and functionally independent of each other, but highly emotionally dependent. She doesn't identify as lesbian or bisexual, I identify as mtf lesbian as I mentioned earlier, so it may seem like a mismatch, but there may be a chance that both of us could become a little flexible in order to be with each other. That may not always be possible in other cases, because most people cannot really be flexible about their gender identity and/or their sexuality.
Yes, "The genie is out of the bottle". There are no Do-Overs after dropping the T-Bomb, no matter how much you may wish or pray for it. There is only dealing with it. Much like you, my wife and I had and still do, go through these talk a lot, dance a lot over me. Not talking at all is certainly not a good thing. I spent a LOT of years not talking. My wife self describes as being "Pathologically Honest", on top of being a big talker.
Coming out to myself, coming out to her, also meant I needed to make some major changes. On top of the list was forcing myself to have totally open and honest conversations with her. A skill that took time to learn, and still am. An even bigger skill is avoiding TMI and the importance of timing.
Early on I was seeing a general therapist who was trans friendly. Transitioning was the absolute last thing on my agenda. Been there, tried it twice in my 20's. (Yes, she knew) I had a TON of baggage accumulated from a lifetime of Not Handling being trans, that I needed to shed before I even begin to feel better about myself.
Today I see a for real Gender Therapist. There is a world of difference between the two. An important skill they have is "Reality". Asking the questions and making you think about things you would rather not. Things like community, family, work. Gender is just one aspect of what defines you. Certainly not the only aspect in today's world.
A gender therapist also has the knowledge base of many of the options that one can try to help "Manage" being trans. Not all of us absolutely need to transition.... at least today. And... You may just be, in a sense, right. He is transgender, but no where near the transsexual end of the spectrum. I tend to ascribe to the "If you think you are transgender, you are" definition of transgender. There is an entire spectrum between cis-male and cis-female that is TG.
After a good five years of taking on the trans beast head on I still present male. I am far far better person and partner to my wife. I feel alive. I feel joy. I am no longer that miserable wretch of a person that I slowly devolved down into over all those years of trying through the shear force of will to suppress the gender aspect of myself. My goal when starting this process was to try to integrate those two, seemingly divergent and incompatible aspects of myself in one whole healthy and happy person. For the most part, I am pretty well there.
Sure, in a perfect world I would like to live life full-time as a woman. In my perfect world of today, I do not NEED to. For that I am blessed. My wife, my family, my career, my personal safety all remain intact. Today, on balance, being 90% genuine works. I know, as well as my wife, that "Balance" can shift. Life is not static as long as you're still waking up on the right side of the grass. There have been periods where perhaps living completely as a female seemed a better way to manage this. Actually more of a need to, in order to survive.
I have got my head around this and have given in to that fact that he is (she is) female.
now I need to figure out what I'm gonna do about it. I'm not sure I can be with a woman, though I have woman friends and women are great. I'm not sure I can sleep with a woman every night and wake up and be kissed by a woman.
I'm gonna ask him to seek a gender therapist, not a therapist. As much as I want to pave over this, it keeps running in my head "your husband is a she", I have even had dreams about him in a dress and makeup, and I woke up crying and angry. Today, we were making love, his legs are shaved and I knew that this was NOT going away. he makes feminine sounds when I hold him, and clearly he wants to be softer, when I want him to be harder.
ok.
this page has been as much therapy, as me venting, and appreciate all of you listening, pointing out good points and counter points.
If I stayed with him, my family wouldn't understand, but I suspect would accept, after they get thier head around something, they do realize its the person, not the package.
my ex husband will laugh, but hes a dead beat and an @#%# hole so I don't care.
My husbands, family will not get it, I'm sure his brothers, will disown him, so my kids neices and nephews, will vanish. Thats ok, we don't see them anyway, they live in another state.
sex... I suppose I could do what I did when I was single.
companionship...I very much want and need this and don't want to start over.
traveling... its off the books, I can't see myself with a woman traveling, thats ok, traveling is dangerous, tiring and I'm getting older.
public bathrooms, I suppose I could go with him (her) and make sure everything is kept safe.
our kids and school.. I need him to not come out. I don't know how that will work, if he is on hormones there will be Tells...pretty quick that he is not exactly male anymore. I guess he can stay home (haha).
our children... how do I explain this to them. they are of the age that something like this could be a real mind binder...
name changes..no idea
drivers licenses...no idea
marriage and tax filing..no idea
safety...no idea.. I just hear about people getting hurt all the time that are transgender. In some cases killed. I suppose in his case he is not out looking for a date, he is married, maybe its safer for him.
Gossip...this will kill me. I can't handle being the middle of small town talk. I will need to move, or he needs to hide it, till we can get out of here.
I'm broken, I feel like he is doing this stuff and he will be happy, but then I will be sad.
I didn't marry him just for his paycheck, or his ability to financially take care of me. Yet, I DID marry him because I needed someone that could provide, he makes a good living doing something I'm proud to talk about so maybe he is backwards arm candy? not sure what that called. And in the past, I have been with many men that turned out to be complete dead beats. I'm a toxic magnet in some ways. So now I feel again, I married someone that is toxic. there it is.
I want a life, I want to have companionship, I want a lover, I want orgasms, I want a safety, I don't want to be judged, I want my kids to be happy and taken care of, I want a future that is full of promise, health, happiness. I want to buy a home with someone and fix it up as our retirement, grow old place. I want to be happy too.
edit: I needed to clarify that I married him cause I love him AND because he can provide, yet I didn't marry him just because he earns a paycheck or has a cool job I can brag about.
Quote from: lostconfusedone on April 12, 2015, 09:10:27 PM
I have got my head around this and have given in to that fact that he is (she is) female.
now I need to figure out what I'm gonna do about it. I'm not sure I can be with a woman, though I have woman friends and women are great. I'm not sure I can sleep with a woman every night and wake up and be kissed by a woman.
I'm gonna ask him to seek a gender therapist, not a therapist. As much as I want to pave over this, it keeps running in my head "your husband is a she", I have even had dreams about him in a dress and makeup, and I woke up crying and angry. Today, we were making love, his legs are shaved and I knew that this was NOT going away. he makes feminine sounds when I hold him, and clearly he wants to be softer, when I want him to be harder.
ok.
this page has been as much therapy, as me venting, and appreciate all of you listening, pointing out good points and counter points.
If I stayed with him, my family wouldn't understand, but I suspect would accept, after they get thier head around something, they do realize its the person, not the package.
my ex husband will laugh, but hes a dead beat and an @#%# hole so I don't care.
My husbands, family will not get it, I'm sure his brothers, will disown him, so my kids neices and nephews, will vanish. Thats ok, we don't see them anyway, they live in another state.
sex... I suppose I could do what I did when I was single.
companionship...I very much want and need this and don't want to start over.
traveling... its off the books, I can't see myself with a woman traveling, thats ok, traveling is dangerous, tiring and I'm getting older.
public bathrooms, I suppose I could go with him (her) and make sure everything is kept safe.
our kids and school.. I need him to not come out. I don't know how that will work, if he is on hormones there will be Tells...pretty quick that he is not exactly male anymore. I guess he can stay home (haha).
our children... how do I explain this to them. they are of the age that something like this could be a real mind binder...
name changes..no idea
drivers licenses...no idea
marriage and tax filing..no idea
safety...no idea.. I just hear about people getting hurt all the time that are transgender. In some cases killed. I suppose in his case he is not out looking for a date, he is married, maybe its safer for him.
Gossip...this will kill me. I can't handle being the middle of small town talk. I will need to move, or he needs to hide it, till we can get out of here.
I'm broken, I feel like he is doing this stuff and he will be happy, but then I will be sad.
I didn't marry him just for his paycheck, or his ability to financially take care of me. Yet, I DID marry him because I needed someone that could provide, he makes a good living doing something I'm proud to talk about so maybe he is backwards arm candy? not sure what that called. And in the past, I have been with many men that turned out to be complete dead beats. I'm a toxic magnet in some ways. So now I feel again, I married someone that is toxic. there it is.
I want a life, I want to have companionship, I want a lover, I want orgasms, I want a safety, I don't want to be judged, I want my kids to be happy and taken care of, I want a future that is full of promise, health, happiness. I want to buy a home with someone and fix it up as our retirement, grow old place. I want to be happy too.
edit: I needed to clarify that I married him cause I love him AND because he can provide, yet I didn't marry him just because he earns a paycheck or has a cool job I can brag about.
I think its important to keep in mind that just because you might choose to let your husband go down this path, it doesn't mean you have to sacrifice 99% while he (she) sacrifices 1%. You can make compromises! it is a marriage after all. Maybe work out boundaries on things she can/can't do as I'm sure it will ease the blow on alot of things. Its good to see you thought things over and are coming back at this more level headed but please, recognize you dont have to sacrifice everything as that will just lead to resentment. Work on what both of you will/will not tolerate.
I feel you are starting to understand your spouse is someone who is dealing with something that they had no control over.
You spouse could stuff it for only so long before it can not be put back.
So I will offer one last suggestion to all I have offered as support.
Communication, Communication, Communication.
Hugs
Quote from: lostconfusedone on April 12, 2015, 09:10:27 PM
I have got my head around this and have given in to that fact that he is (she is) female.
now I need to figure out what I'm gonna do about it. I'm not sure I can be with a woman, though I have woman friends and women are great. I'm not sure I can sleep with a woman every night and wake up and be kissed by a woman.
I'm gonna ask him to seek a gender therapist, not a therapist. As much as I want to pave over this, it keeps running in my head "your husband is a she", I have even had dreams about him in a dress and makeup, and I woke up crying and angry.
It is really nice that you are trying to accept and understand it, and that you are going through all of the important things in your life to see how they would be affected.
But as others have said too, I'll just say that for the sake of your own sanity, please do not over-think it, and please do not jump to conclusions.
Give your spouse time, but also give yourself time. Keep communicating, and figure out what works best for both of you. All the best.
Hey there. I'm a partner of a trans gal. First, here's a hug if you want one. While I have known my girlfriend was trans from day one and accepted it since before the day I met her, I can see how this would be a scary time for you. Stay strong, and don't forget to take care of yourself too, as you go through this journey with your partner.
Quote from: lostconfusedone on April 11, 2015, 07:14:46 PMMy anxiety is pretty severe.
Do you have coping strategies in place to help you when things get really bad? If you haven't done so already, maybe you could look into a counselor for yourself to help you with anxiety/your partners upcoming transition/sorting through your feelings regarding gender identity things?
Quote from: lostconfusedone on April 11, 2015, 07:14:46 PMI want to be a fearless love, but then I want to be fearless and leave and start over with a man that is a man. Though at this point I'm about done with men.
Whether you stay or leave your partner, try to be gentle on yourself. Nobody expects you to be superwoman and be 100% fearless all the time.
Quote from: lostconfusedone on April 11, 2015, 07:14:46 PM<breathe>.....I really wish there was some switch I could flip in my head and it would be all clear for him to do what eve he wants, but there isn't.
Sometimes it takes some time for you to sort through all your feelings and think through everything. Take a few deep breaths and try to allow yourself to take the time to do so.
Quote from: lostconfusedone on April 11, 2015, 07:14:46 PMa man (now woman) holding hands with another women, in our community would NOT go over well
If you don't mind the asking, what part of the globe do you live in? I'm sure someone here has a few local resources they could post to you.
Quote from: lostconfusedone on April 11, 2015, 07:14:46 PMI like sex and I'm sure sex will take on a new dimension that I can't even imagine, and also may result in no sex, and no attraction to boot.
Yup, things in the bedroom may change. Your partner may prefer not using certain body parts anymore. I would suggest lots of communication-open, honest, respectful, direct communication.
A few other things:
Pronouns-have a discussion about it. What are each of you comfortable with, and what pronouns you should use with which people in which settings.
Transition-discuss the timeline together. Perhaps you two can come to a consensus of how fast it will happen.
My, this thread has been awfully familiar. If I lived in a small town and had kids, I'd think we were married!
My awareness of my gender has been a long evolution. I haven't been happy about it, except a handful of days when I've felt comfortable in my skin. It started out small: got me a cute twink outfit, thought that was the end of it. At every point, I told my wife the complete and honest truth about my feelings. Eventually... I found myself saying the words "but if I did transition, could you still love me?" Well... crap... even I didn't see that one coming! Her response to that "set me straight" for a good 6 months.
So while I can't speak for your spouse, I can say that my wife's experience has been similar -- it's always another thing... it seems that every time I say "no, I don't want to go any further than X", that's a "promise" that I've "broken". In fact, that was never a promise... it was an honest evaluation of my feelings at the time. I never lied or hid my feelings... except when she had said that she didn't like something, and I buried it until doing so made me unbearably depressed.
And then, once I became sufficiently depressed, femininity would erupt forth, and I'd be able to think of nothing else. For days, weeks or months it would be on the tip of my tongue. I wanted to talk about it, but I knew that bringing it up would trigger a massive fight, my wife would unleash some horribly brutal things that I would never expect to hear her say to any person, man or woman, even one she hated... this from the person who loves me above anybody else? Eventually cost/benefit favored talking about my feelings. Better to let it out and take the punishment.
This is why there's a link to suicide hotlines at the top of every forum. Many of us hate this about ourselves more than our loved ones could ever even comprehend. Men are raised to be ashamed of any weakness, any femininity... especially if femininity fits them better. And our loved ones reflect and amplify that shame. And I want you to know that I have compassion for your reaction. The person you know is changing, and you're grieving a loss. Anger, denial, bargaining... it's all there. And until we learn better, we reflect the culture we're raised in. Your reaction is normal and understandable.
So. I've been seeing a therapist who specializes in gender, so I'd like to tell you how that's been going. Most times I see my therapist, I tell her what's going on with my gender. Sometimes it's not an issue (I recently had a month of boy mode, and it felt like I'd woken up from a weird, embarrassing dream) and we do grief work 'cause cancer's been a bitch to my family lately. Sometimes I feel feminine, and she's supportive and accepting... but she asks me tricksy questions like 'well, why do you want to reveal this to people?' and 'can you find something small, hidden, and unobtrusive that will allow you to express your gender to yourself?'
She's done quite the opposite from "push me towards transition". She doesn't want me to do something that isn't right for who I really am. I still don't know what I want. Still don't know what the future holds. But my wife is seeing a therapist who is familiar with gender issues too, and she's doing her best to support me. She ain't fearless, she ain't flawless, but she's mine, she's doing her best, and she's sticking with me. And because of that, she'll never have a more loyal partner.
To the OP,
here is my take on this, and I'm going to make a lot of assumptions below, but I suspect MOST of them are right on the money, because this is how partners, spouses, marriages are, especially ones where you are +12 years in and have kids to boot.
So here I go.
your partner, the person you married, the person you have laughed with, cried with, had children with, the person that you listen breathe as they sleep, the person that was in the delivery room with you, that was there when your friends got married, helped you through times when your pet died, or relative passed away. That person that you have hiked trails with, raised kids with and who has worked a job they didn't like yet has come home to you every day and watched TV with you every night. (and that's just my quick tour of any couples long relationship)
your husband has approached you (and think how brave you'd have to be to even open that door), and said to you "wife I'm struggling, there is something I have to say, something I need" and told you what is going on with them inside. I think you need to step back quite frankly and give them a long hug, and cry on their shoulder. you need to let some things go and help them.
In this time of his (her) need, its time to be selfless. even if you need to eventually separate, IMO as thier friend you need to support them. and thats a good point, say you were just friends. what would you do? I know in my case any friend I have, if they came out and said hey I need to be a guy, or hey I need to be a girl. I'd be like... OK.
That is my 2 cents.
its been a little bit and I wanted to share a quick update as to where he(she) and I are at. we found a gender therapist and he is seeing them. I have good days and then not so good days but I'm starting to realize that he hasn't changed. I talked to someone I can trust and they pointed out that what does it matter? I needed to hear that.
and from what I've seen, he has changed but he hasn't, in many ways the writing has been on the wall for a long time, I just didn't see it. so that is progress. I need for this to go slow, and him putting on makeup still is a reality bender that I am not ready for. Yet, I acknowledge that for him this need of his is not a sunburn, or a flu. So I'm having to get my head around this that we may be sharing clothes at some point. I never saw that coming.
I do love him, and I am giving this my best effort, when we married I meant what I said, though inside I'm being put to the test of whether I really meant those words.
Quote from: lostconfusedone on May 03, 2015, 06:09:25 PM
its been a little bit and I wanted to share a quick update as to where he(she) and I are at. we found a gender therapist and he is seeing them. I have good days and then not so good days but I'm starting to realize that he hasn't changed. I talked to someone I can trust and they pointed out that what does it matter? I needed to hear that.
and from what I've seen, he has changed but he hasn't, in many ways the writing has been on the wall for a long time, I just didn't see it. so that is progress. I need for this to go slow, and him putting on makeup still is a reality bender that I am not ready for. Yet, I acknowledge that for him this need of his is not a sunburn, or a flu. So I'm having to get my head around this that we may be sharing clothes at some point. I never saw that coming.
I do love him, and I am giving this my best effort, when we married I meant what I said, though inside I'm being put to the test of whether I really meant those words.
Going slow is key when in a relationship. Fast is disruptive. At a minimum it isn't like facial hair will go away quickly. More than likely she will want to be somewhat passable before going out. If you want to try and make it work, and aren't at all bisexual then perhaps you can bond as girlfriends.
My wife and I enjoy shopping, similar music, and many other things I would not let myself enjoy. Those things weren't manly and I rejected them as a part of fighting the GID. I finally lost the battle as it were a year and a half ago. That's at 47 mind you. Now my wife and I love each other more than ever before and have far more fun. She's my best and closest friend and I am hers. It's not the same but in so many ways it's way better. I wish you the best of luck and hope you both can find a safe path through this.
You're a good person. I'm heartened to hear that you're sticking with your spouse and supporting them. I hope you've got compassion for yourself. This isn't easy. You're a good person. Do me a favor? Look in the mirror, and say that out loud to yourself. You need to hear it.
As I've been allowed to explore more, my wife went through a period of a few weeks where she didn't feel romantically attracted to femme-me. Fortunately, I'd very recently learned about "boundaries" from my therapist, so I was quick to cue into this... and I backed off for a while. She's come around a bit, and loves certain aspects about my transition: for example, I'm now a self-identified feminist and I've seen glimmers of the world through female eyes and I "get" her a lot better.
When it comes to clothes... I'd never borrow something of my wife's that I'll stretch out (stupid man-shoulders!). I've had to learn how to treat delicates in the laundry. If your spouse wants to borrow your clothes, set ground rules. But! You're now in the enviable position of being married to somebody who will enjoy shopping with you... and this is a strange silver lining indeed... has body image issues, so can be taught to give fair, honest, and sensitive critique of how clothes fit you.
I want to give an update, many of you have asked questions here and privately to me and I owe you in my mind some update (I opened this can of worms).
So.... My wife(former husband) and I are still together.
Its not been easy but counseling has helped. I realize that no matte what I want to be with this person. I love him. We are sharing the same bed, we watch shows together, we laugh,we cry, we talk and quite frankly we are closer than ever. who would have thought.
She is calmer, more collected, and our lives in many ways are better. We still see a therapist and thats been of great help for me and her.
It is not all perfect. There is no Man in the house anymore. We share the responsibilty to protect ourselves, our children and ourselves. For the most part she is mostly stealth in public, but is on hormones, her skin is more feminine.
We have had sex with the lights out, but we always have the lights out, so it works. She smells different.
She has emotional moments more, we hug more.
our kids know something is up and they don't seem to care.
a few people know and we thought it was going to be this giant deal, most don't really care. THAT was a surprise but pleasant
Bottom line, unless she cheats on me, or loses interest in me being the center of her universe, we will be a couple for ever I think. Its working out.
I hope this helps. My advice to anyone reading this and dealing with the same issues. Ask yourself, do you love this person? do they love you? Are they kind? Do you like who they are? do they make you laugh? are they a good person? if you can say yes to those, then work it out, go to therapy, find a way, there is a way, and don't let fear rule your decisions. Life is to darn short.
And I want to thank this community, ->-bleeped-<- communities, books, Susan Boylans(Spelling) books, and everyone for helping here and being brave enough to blaze a trail for others to be "normal".
thank you
Great post! I'm really glad you updated us and that things are working out. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
Wow, that brought tears to my eyes! What a beautiful post and happy ending / beginning! :)
Great Outcome and you take a huge pat on the back for getting to where you have. Congradulations
Well done! You've both come a long way on a very difficult road, and that takes a lot of courage... also a lot of love.
Thanks for the update -- it's nice of you to let us know that things are working well for you in spite of all the difficulties. We like "happy middles" almost as much as happy endings, maybe even more.
Quote from: lostconfusedone on November 17, 2015, 05:27:53 PM
I hope this helps. My advice to anyone reading this and dealing with the same issues. Ask yourself, do you love this person? do they love you? Are they kind? Do you like who they are? do they make you laugh? are they a good person? if you can say yes to those, then work it out, go to therapy, find a way, there is a way, and don't let fear rule your decisions. Life is to darn short.
It was a very nice post but I thought that this part was particularly well said.
I'm afraid though that you should rename your account. You don't sound very lost or confused anymore. :-)
Quote from: lostconfusedone on April 07, 2015, 05:51:15 PM
my first post, my husband came out to me, well multiple times in the last 15 months, and after 12 years of knowing him i just don't buy that he is transgender. let me explain. my husband likes women, no loves women. he loves strip clubs, porn, and any woman that is remotely attractive. a while ago about 5 years into out marriage i caught him cheating and we went to counseling and we worked out some relationship problems, and focus problems around what is important. so time passes and then he hits me with hes always been a women. ummm ok, i look at his childhood pictures and its all guy mode. he says, he always wanted to wear girl clothes, and wants to be called robin, hates his adams apple, etc.
so i went along with it and thinking about this made me angry, hurt, and just plain not buying it. so i called his bluff and told him, I'm not a lesbian, and that this isn't gonna work, and we should divorce. so he then back peddles and says he's not transgender, and was confused. so i told him i needed more and he explained that the whole idea came about. because, of the many things in his life he cannot explain, like wanting to wear girl clothes, wanting and gravitating to female things. i told em guys can like female things and not be transgender. to that he said thats true. so he saw a therapist who also supported me and said men have but female and male in them, same with women. yin and yang if you will. and it doesn't make a person transgender. the therapist also said that its fine and he's not transgender but balanced, and its ok to explore his female side some. so we did, he tried on some girl shoes, and pants, and i asked him how they made him feel and he said, silly. so.. we put it to rest. now months later its back, he says he wants to transition, and again i called him out, and now he says he is just confused, and just needed me to center him back.
so.... what is going on here? in my mind there is NO WAY he is transgender. am i wrong? i mean even therapist basically said he is not. i want my husband, and my life, and my sex with a male partner.
anyone else deal with this? did you help them to stay male, or let them transition? did you stay or leave? i cant imagine staying with my husband if he turned into a woman. sex will not be an option and im not attracted to females. to me, he is just ill. and i dont know how to snap him out of it. sigh...
thanks for listening and any advice.
.
I know this post is some what old, however allow me to interject. Now being attracted to women is perfectly normal for men or women, just depends on your preference as an individual and has nothing to do with being "trans" which is a stupid phrase. Your either man or woman, although there are some I believe that don't have either a male or female dominant brain. Brain sex is rarely discussed anymore. No one can quantify what it feel like to be a woman or a man. It's to subjective. Each individual has there own experience. But somehow your brain does know the difference. I knew when I was a child I wasn't "male". But being from the south I had to be the man to fit in and not he tortured for being "feminine". And trust me I was bullied endlessly until I learned to bury my true self. People flat out called me a liar when I came out. Said I was confused, now way you can be "trans". In reality I wasn't. I was just female. Now I'm 32 and am happy for the first time ever in my life. My wife knew I was miserable even though I wore a smile and I was always the class clown and jovial. It was a coping mechanism. It was killing our marriage. Bc I was ill all the time, aggressive and quick to anger. I was just a machine. Does any of this sound familiar to you? Being able to dress sometimes is a coping mechanism, it's never about the clothes, it's about relief from the pain. I rarely wear the things I used to wear when I "dressed". I still like to dress nice to go out from time to time, but most of the time it's jeans and flip flops. I wear a big tshirt to bed or pajama pants and a girls undershirt to bed. Sorry if I'm going on, but I made excuses to make my wife happy, almost same story as yours. I would say I just was confused. Your not going to get the truth unless you yourself are open to it and do so without judgement. Because your spouse will feel that judgment and feel shame so they will make excuses again because they love you. With all there heart. Life will go on for both of you, if you decide to leave you will find love again, they will find love again. But you have to be open to find out the truth. Put yourself out of the situation mentally and emotionally. My wife did this for me Bc she needed to know how I really felt and she knew I wouldn't as long as she was judging me. I was a soldier(infantry) a veteran. I rode a Harley, had a fast cool car, I was like super male. So my wife didn't believe me either AT ALL. Like you had no attraction to women. Didn't think she would stay, but our marriage wasn't going to survive the way it was either. So we agreed to a gender therapist and was recommended to start hormone therapy, we agreed I would stay male and dress every other week and stay "male" to see how it went, after some time on hormones, I changed. My mood lightened. I became happy, my personality completely changed, I'm still the same person. And to my wife's surprise she started really liking me, in her words she knew I was this person, but now she could see me. She still wasn't attracted to me like that. Then my body started changing. I am 7 months in on hormones and I have a full a cup. I lost several pounds, my body is shaped more like a woman. I have some curves now. And my wife is extremely attracted to me now. We're more in love than we ever have been. It's been the best thing to happen to both of us. I have an almost 0 testosterone level, so she isn't being tricked into it by my hormones. She is a traditional Christian as am I. So she really struggled with it for a while. But we have always believed being gay or lesbian isn't a sin. But again we're from Alabama and it's the Bible Belt. My whole point being you might think you can't have an enjoyable sex life with a woman, you might be surprised. It's the happiest time of our lives. She really didn't think she would be happy with me sexually or emotionally as a woman. And didn't think I would be passable. Hormones are something else let me tell you. I am telling you go to a gender therapist let your spouse tell you the truth, if you decide to stay, stay if not leave don't drag it out it's bad for both of you if you do. Give enough time say a year on hormones and let your spouse dress every few weeks at home, spend time together watch movies, have some romantic candle lit dinners, just enjoy being in the moment, don't fight your emotions good or bad. If you don't like your spouse more then be an adult and ask them to be an adult, stay friends and end it. If not there will be resentment and regret and your marriage won't be fun if you don't resolve this any way. If you need to talk to my wife pm me and she can talk to you. She was exactly like you a few years ago. If it works out like our relationship did you'll never have more fun and more love than that. It not only made us more in love, it saved us and I am eternally happy as is my wife. I mean we're constantly sending each other love notes and we seriously can't keep our hands off each other. I wish you all the luck and I wish you the same happiness me and my wife have. Please by all means pm me I can give you my wife's email address and she can tell you everything we went through and it wasn't all roses and hugs either. We fought we got mad and didn't talk, and then she got to the point where she really wanted to know more than she feared the pain and that was a break through for us. Good luck and please update us on how it goes.
Never judge a person based on appearance, they are so deceiving, trust them in what they say and how well you know them. Best friend, who was a usmc force recon marine, had a friend, who's twin brother also made it into force recon. One brother transitioned from male to female, and the other brother stayed male. That story was so bizarre to the force recon community, its never talked about or admitted. Reason I know this, is I'm a former marine, who served with this force recon marine, but as a MP, both he and I were MP's, he just made it to force recon after active duty in the reserves. Me, I got out and went 1st civ. div.