Hello, I have a question or two for all you MTF Lesbians out there. First off I am one who has yet to start transitioning at 45. For most of my life I blamed my feelings on my gay father. At least that is what I told myself when I was the one who bought cloths for my wife. Now the question I ask myself is my admiration of women based on the women in side of me or just a sexual desire?? I have analyzed and re-analyzed who I am many times over. I just wish the wrongness feelings would just go away. This might be easier if I was into guys but I have no interest in them.
Thanks for listening
I guess the answer is different for each. I can just offer mine, and it's not about admiration but more about compatibility with my tastes.
Male genitalia just disgust me. I can't get intimate with males. The worst is the hairs. Makes me want to vomit. It was the same with mine. Facial and armpit hair is mostly gone, so I can at least tolerate the top part of my body. No chest hair. I was lucky.
Yet due to bad luck, the bottom part of my body has these dangling parts. With the end of morning and involuntary erections it became tolerable. I still want an orchi at least. No reason whatsoever to keep these yucky things poisoning me with T - except maybe the skin if one day I wanted SRS. Not really on my roadmap.
You might have a look here for a few thoughts that might help:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,185096.msg1646042.html#msg1646042
You might look for counseling, preferably with a gender therapist.
If it is connected with depression it might be covered.
You might for example ask at plannedparenthood, a local lgbt center or transgender groups for a referral to a gender therapist or some counseling there.
And there might be support groups there.
hugs
Based on British statistics, heterosexual MTFs are the minority, with bisexuals being more common, and lesbian MTFs being the most common.
I think I can understand where you're coming from. I love the female form, and I can't fathom being with the male form, soberly at least (been there done that, have some hangups about it). I don't despise my own genitalia though. I have been getting Brazilian waxes down there for the past year to keep things from growing out of control and it lasts much longer and feels much better than shaving. I am pretty sure I should have been born a girl, but I'm still attracted to females. I think some guys look cute, but that's just in the face. Maybe my sexual attraction preferences have derived from my social upbringing and hormones, or maybe not, who's to say!
I don't know myself really, so I'm going to try and find a gender therapist though soon who can maybe answer some of these questions. My wife still has (had) hangups about my being gay for years, but I always told her I was just a lesbian trapped in a man's body! I used to think I was just being funny, but now I'm not so sure. I can't wait to get out there and start expressing myself as a woman though and see how it goes. I see these sexy women on TV and movies and I don't just want to be with them, I want to BE them!
At any rate, don't be ashamed of who you're attracted to. We all only get one go-around on this merry-go-round of life, well I used to think that anyways, maybe transitioning is a way of having a second go-round! :) Just have fun and do what makes you happy. Dance like nobody is watching and be yourself!
-Tristan
For me when I look at a female I see two different things, one a sexual attraction(or not) and a body I want. I sort of see females as a shopping list of parts I want to have as well as touch. I have contacted the transgender institute in Kansas city. This will be my 4th attempt at a therapist. They all were for me going on HRT. Just wanted more time with me and money stopped me or one time it was my wife not wanting that part of me and me trying to be the person she wanted. I go through all this and constantly fear the world, it can be deadly for a non-passing girl.
Quote from: miya5 on April 17, 2015, 03:55:06 PM
I sort of see females as a shopping list of parts...
I am sorry but this seems a bit offensive. As someone who identifies as MtF lesbian herself, I can understand a trans* person's reason for saying this, but if a cis male were to say the same words, I would think any female would fume.
My own identity is based neither on admiration for women nor on sexual desire (I have both of these but they don't drive my identity).
To me, it's as simple as saying I am who I am, just like any other person, male or female, gay or straight, cis or trans. It derives from my brain and not my body, though the body is what causes the mismatch and the 'transness'.
I too felt confused between wanting to be with women and wanting to be like them. I also thought there had been a mistake somewhere in me getting this body, but I initially thought nothing could be done about it. The mind was what was important and the body was not. Then I came to know a bit about all kinds of surgeries (not just SRS), but I said to myself I am not 'vain' so I shouldn't do all that.
It was only when I came to understand that HRT only drives your own genetics to act the way they would for a cis female, that even SRS simply reshapes something you have into something that should have been, and that it remains your own body after all, that I could begin to accept the idea that I needed to change my body to match my brain.
Else I had been ok living as 'male' because that's what my body told me, and 'cross-dressing' occasionally to quell the unrest in my mind.
I would actually be OK with having sex with a male. Penises don't frighten me. What bothers me is male behavior and testosterone's effect on it. I could never manage a relationship with someone who acted like that. Perhaps it's just my inner knowledge of how testosterone affected my own behavior as an unknowing trans woman and people who are actually male can handle it, I don't know, but I can never be comfortable with that in a relationship.
Quote from: cindy16 on April 19, 2015, 05:18:46 AM
I am sorry but this seems a bit offensive. As someone who identifies as MtF lesbian herself, I can understand a trans* person's reason for saying this, but if a cis male were to say the same words, I would think any female would fume.
I doubt there is a cis girl out there that hasn't said she wished her" insert body part here" looked like another girls. We all admire what we don't have to some extent.
I over analyze my whole life daily to the point of confusion.
there's men out there that are beautiful and caring. I love men.
Quote from: miya5 on April 19, 2015, 02:27:17 PM
I doubt there is a cis girl out there that hasn't said she wished her" insert body part here" looked like another girls. We all admire what we don't have to some extent.
I over analyze my whole life daily to the point of confusion.
I agree, but the words seemed like reducing females or a female identity to a list of body parts, and not a reference to such wishes or admiration. If as trans* people, we claim that our bodies do not determine our identity, then it is not a good idea for us to reduce anyone else's identity to their bodies either.
I get what you meant, but I am just saying it could have been worded better.
Also, an extreme form of such 'wishing to look like someone else' is what is called Body Dysmorphic Disorder. Which is what some cis people conflate gender dysphoria with. The two can and do co-exist but are also different.
Miya:
If others have not already mentioned it. Sexual orientation and gender identity are two separate spectrums of human sexuality.
Sexual orientation is who you are attracted to. And Gender identity is how you see yourself.
I have considered myself a life-long lesbian, but only got to sign up after my transition. ;)
I do admit that while I have a passing interest in the male form, I could never imagine myself developing an emotional bond with one. Women on the other hand have always been *interesting* to me.
I understand your confusion, I went through something similar prior to my exit of self denial. I thought I was a ->-bleeped-<-, not a transsexual. But I never really got any sort of erotic thrill from dressing up.
Depending on your location, you may be able to get on HRT through informed consent. Meaning that your endo/physician will allow you to start HRT without a therapist recommendation provided you understand all the ramifications of HRT and agree to regular blood testing (something you'd have to do anyway). In Chicago, the clinic I go to calls it THINC (Trans Hormone INformed Consent).
Something to THINC about.
-Sandy
I am in Missouri and have no insurance. The therapist I am going to see is allowing me to see her once a month on a sliding scale. She said if all goes well I can have the letter after a few visits. That can give me time to save for the endo visit. After spending so much time justifying my thoughts, and now spending a couple of years going over it and going over it while trying to stay with my wife it looks like I may just tell her it is what the dr thinks is best for me. I think my wife is hiding her head in the sand about me. We are more like roommates now. No for me but for her, I still want a married life.
I can empathize with your situation and wish you the best of luck on your journey. I want to stay married, but I am conflicted with wanting to go out and strut my stuff. :) After being in this relationship for over 10 years it's going to be difficult to have my cake and eat it too though I'm sure. Sometimes you have to let things go though, no matter how much it hurts. Not saying you should, just saying you shouldn't close yourself off to the idea completely. Open and honest communication with your wife and with yourself will get you where you need to be.
*totally pretends to not be lurking*
*sends a thumbs up to Cindy16*
*creeps back to corner*
Thanks for the support, I am coming to my 23 yr point of my marriage. I guess I will just wait and see what happens.
Hugz
QuoteNow the question I ask myself is my admiration of women based on the women in side of me or just a sexual desire?? I have analyzed and re-analyzed who I am many times over. I just wish the wrongness feelings would just go away.
Sexual desire of woman is your sexuality (which may shift a bit if you go on HRT).
Your admiration of woman may be based of GD or it may be part of your sexuality. Only you can determine that.
My GD makes me feel very bad, especially when I am around woman. I feel very wrong but I am not sexually attracted and I would not call it attraction, more like desire to be viewed and be a woman.
Quote from: Atypical on April 21, 2015, 04:29:57 PM
*totally pretends to not be lurking*
*sends a thumbs up to Cindy16*
*creeps back to corner*
Thanks ;D
Oh my ! Thumbs up to Atypical and of course to Cindy16 !
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: martine on April 24, 2015, 07:42:50 AM
Oh my ! Thumbs up to Atypical and of course to Cindy16 !
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thumbs up to you too Martine! (is there a smiley for this?)
They are two separate parts of who you are, but that doesn't mean they can't change. A lot of people have reported switching from women to men or from women to bi. Some were always interested in men.
I'm still only interested in women, but until recently I was only interested in feminine women and not butch women.
Who knows what the path ahead of me has for me.
Cindy16, apparently thumbs up is written in the following way in most messenger software "open parentheses capital Y close parentheses". Hence I'd type 2(Y) for Cindy !
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have found this discussion really useful. Actually a eureka moment. This clarification of the separation of gender identity and sexual orientation explains everything that I have been confused about for the last 48 years. I had and have enjoyed wearing women's clothing and playing with sex toys for the whole of my life. I have not been attracted to men - but always thought I might be gay (sex toys) and thought the dressing as a women was 'in some way associated' with that and that I was in some way in denial about being gay.
I now see so very clearly that the dressing and playing were an expression of my gender identity.
Amazing.
Cx
Quote from: CassieG on April 25, 2015, 03:37:25 PM
I have found this discussion really useful. Actually a eureka moment. This clarification of the separation of gender identity and sexual orientation explains everything that I have been confused about for the last 48 years. I had and have enjoyed wearing women's clothing and playing with sex toys for the whole of my life. I have not been attracted to men - but always thought I might be gay (sex toys) and thought the dressing as a women was 'in some way associated' with that and that I was in some way in denial about being gay.
I now see so very clearly that the dressing and playing were an expression of my gender identity.
Amazing.
Cx
This is
EXACTLY what happened to me - the whole "eureka moment" a while after I first concluded I was transgender. When I finally 'got it' completely I felt like I'd been struck in the head with a hammer I was so blown away. It was like all my neurons went KA-BLAM!!! at the same instant. Everything then made sense and my identity was cemented in that moment. I actually felt kinda dumb for not figuring out this key concept earlier. I was like, "Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhh......."
I just wish people would stop saying that hormones change sexual preference - there's no medical evidence to suggest they do.. And if they did, don't you think hormone treatment would be used a 'cure' for homosexuality, something that has been tried an the past and shown to be a complete failure?
Quote from: kelly_aus on April 25, 2015, 09:59:18 PM
I just wish people would stop saying that hormones change sexual preference - there's no medical evidence to suggest they do.. And if they did, don't you think hormone treatment would be used a 'cure' for homosexuality, something that has been tried an the past and shown to be a complete failure?
I totally agree with you. I think they were trying to say that once the HRT kicks in you stop focusing on what you look like and now can focus on who you are attracted to. Things can change once you can think clearly. Sort of all comes together.
Quote from: martine on April 25, 2015, 08:39:03 AM
Cindy16, apparently thumbs up is written in the following way in most messenger software "open parentheses capital Y close parentheses". Hence I'd type 2(Y) for Cindy !
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I thought it was (.Y.) ...oh wait, that's... :o
I never thought I was a woman, just that I didn't "fit" with the guys. On the other hand, I made friends with lesbians at the drop of a hat, but never hetero-women.
Men didn't especially interest me
until I got on hormones, now I understand there is a place for them (at least sexually)...but a LTR? Naw. (imho, HRT does NOT change sexual preference, it either drops the walls within that one has after years of social constructs, or it allows one to understand the attraction in a more visceral way. <--Based solely on my experience, and I don't need no medical study to validate me).
So, after my revelation that I am MtF, and the end of my 23 year marriage...I pursued the life of a lesbian, and hey presto now I are married to one! And I'm a *confirmed* lesbian now!!
HRT seems only to have served to reinforce my lesbian sexuality. I've developed the ability to have all-out female orgasms and I can sometimes trigger them just with fantasy. It must involve women and a shared understanding of the sensations we're both feeling - Men play absolutely no role in arousing me sexually. It sure was confusing figuring it all out at first, especially in terms of dominance roles and who potentially penetrates who. I can say with all certainty now that the thought of another woman taking control of my body and also penetrating me drives me completely crazy! Sex toys have fully changed my sexual experience and outlook from one of feeling nearly asexual to one of multiple overwhelming orgasms to the point of near complete exhaustion. It's pretty clear to me now what makes my mind and body tick - Lesbians! (Now if they can just look past my existing superfluous junk... sigh...)
For the longest time I didn't know what was wrong with me. I felt like I was gay or something, but I like girls not guys. Meanwhile my inner self is screaming at me, you're a girl!!!! It took a while to listen.
Quote from: CassieG on April 25, 2015, 03:37:25 PM
I have found this discussion really useful. Actually a eureka moment. This clarification of the separation of gender identity and sexual orientation explains everything that I have been confused about for the last 48 years. I had and have enjoyed wearing women's clothing and playing with sex toys for the whole of my life. I have not been attracted to men - but always thought I might be gay (sex toys) and thought the dressing as a women was 'in some way associated' with that and that I was in some way in denial about being gay.
I now see so very clearly that the dressing and playing were an expression of my gender identity.
Amazing.
Cx
Well my head is still spinning this morning. Things are just happening so fast. Thank goodness my wonderful wife is being so supportive. I have an appointment with a leading psychologist in the field on Thursday - on the advice of a good friend. Bless her - my wife is suggesting I go for wig fitting in the morning to save having to go to London twice in short succession. How cool is that.
I just can't believe this is happening. I keep crying all the time. Thank you so much for being out there.
cx
For years and years before I knew anything about the subject of being transgender, I thought I was a lesbian trapped in a man's body, I kid you not. Never heard of that ever before, but plucked it out of my own mind. I've been experimentally intimate with a couple different guys, and while I never got aroused by servicing them, I never got aroused by servicing women either, weird? And I definitely am not attracted to the bigger, tan, hairy men, but instead, the ones that are more androgynous used to turn my head. ;-) when I got married though, I shut down all those feelings so I could live the life I was "supposed to".
Now, me and my wife's sex life has been dwindling over the years, and we haven't successfully had sex in the last 5 months, and only tried I think twice at that. Part of that is due to my having MS and how it's affected my ability to perform, but I haven't really WANTED to be with her either in nearly a year I think, except for the purpose of trying to conceive a child, which we succeeded at about 5 months ago.
Anyways, back on topic, I've becoming more asexual and non -sexual in the months leading up to my self-discovery about being transgender and I wonder if it's related. Nothing turns me on anymore, not even porn. The only time I get "excited" is when things make me genuinely happy, and of course the overnight automatic ones still show up every now and again...
Can't wait to see if hormones change things in this area. :-)
"Lesbian in a man's body," you have no idea how many of us have said that! And the number of people who thought I was joking when I said it....
I've said this a number of times and thought it was a joke, but knew deep down it wasn't.
Quote from: Dee Walker on April 26, 2015, 10:06:03 AM
"Lesbian in a man's body," you have no idea how many of us have said that! And the number of people who thought I was joking when I said it....
Quote from: Dee Walker on April 26, 2015, 10:06:03 AM
"Lesbian in a man's body," you have no idea how many of us have said that! And the number of people who thought I was joking when I said it....
Quote from: awilliams1701 on April 26, 2015, 11:58:18 AM
I've said this a number of times and thought it was a joke, but knew deep down it wasn't.
Same here. I knew my body was getting in the way of truly expressing this, but never thought about transitioning... I didn't even know it was a thing.
Quote from: Dee Walker on April 19, 2015, 08:16:27 AM
Perhaps it's just my inner knowledge of how testosterone affected my own behavior as an unknowing trans woman and people who are actually male can handle it, I don't know, but I can never be comfortable with that in a relationship.
I am about the opposite side of the spectrum from Dee! I am FTM and pansexual, but very heavily attracted to men overall, whether trans or cis, the body parts and stuff matter less, it's more the personality type. I am also very attracted to women who in a stereotypical way act a bit more masculine? I know it's extremely stereotyped to say women are more emotional, but to me, it's more the WAY the emotions tend to be expressed, I guess?
I have always been attracted to guys and have gotten MORE interested in women of all kinds as well as anyone non-binary. I just like mellow people who are not easily flustered and don't have the rapid emotional shifts I used to have when I was pre-T and pre trans! I view it as partly attraction, I love male bodies, nto a huge fan of typical female anatomy. The women I am attracted to are not usually very feminine in appearance. But some of it is also due to feeling a bit off about seeing body parts that I don't like on myself. The more I am treated like any other guy by a particular girl, the less this bothers me, I guess?
Anyways, the majority of the transmen I know seem to be more into guys than women, or are dating very genderqueer/ atypical girls who do not always identify as female or women. My one very old time MTF friend has a very lovely girlfriend, they were dating since high school, stayed together with very little problems during her transition.
I think a therapist could help you decipher your feelings! But being a lesbian MTF is not at all unsual!
Quote from: miya5 on April 25, 2015, 10:13:18 PM
I totally agree with you. I think they were trying to say that once the HRT kicks in you stop focusing on what you look like and now can focus on who you are attracted to. Things can change once you can think clearly. Sort of all comes together.
Yeah I don't feel my sexuality has been changed by T, it's that my walls have come down now that I feel like a proper dude. I think if someone's inner image of themselves is a stright woman, they will probably be into guys mostly and if they see themselves as a gay man, they will mainly be into guys. I don't think it's as simple as the hormones changing you so drastically!