Hi girls and guys,
I'm glad to report that in 47 days I'll have this surgery with prof. Remacle.
I'll share with you on this forum the evolution process before, during and after that might be useful IF the surgery is a success.
If you want to know a bit more about me I've introduced myself in the correct section
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsd-2.archive-host.com%2Fmembres%2Fimages%2F199036695262197582%2FTop.jpg&hash=30e5792c317ea02c3ad955627481e5230ef1db06)
Hi Cristal,
Thank You for your kind offer to share your surgery journey with Marc Remacle. I'm sure all will be fine and in time we will all be listening jealously to your new voice.
In time I hope to go visit Marc Remacle myself. For now I just have to be patient as I am my Dad's Carer and need to work out with my family how we are going to look after him while I am away and unable to talk on my return.
Helen x
Quote from: Helen Green on April 19, 2015, 05:19:11 PM
Hi Cristal,
Thank You for your kind offer to share your surgery journey with Marc Remacle. I'm sure all will be fine and in time we will all be listening jealously to your new voice.
In time I hope to go visit Marc Remacle myself. For now I just have to be patient as I am my Dad's Carer and need to work out with my family how we are going to look after him while I am away and unable to talk on my return.
Helen x
Hi Helen, thanks for your answer. In fact after 13 years since my transition I need to go thru this, since I've got more and more difficulties to control the beast inside my throat. I'm SO scared, because Prof. Remacle told me that it'll be tricky to achieve a very good result. My "male" vvoice is around 118HZ which is very low. Prof Remacle told me that I can hope for a gain between 50 to 100 hz, which is not much but better than nothing.
I hope the results will be nice anyway
Ah, 118 Hz is ok. This means you probably will be nice in the 180-200 Hz area, which is in the female range. Dr Kim told me he had some patients with a F0 or below 100 Hz, in that case he did the surgery, but in addition t that the patients did have to use a trained voice.
Quote from: anjaq on April 20, 2015, 04:54:58 AM
Ah, 118 Hz is ok. This means you probably will be nice in the 180-200 Hz area, which is in the female range. Dr Kim told me he had some patients with a F0 or below 100 Hz, in that case he did the surgery, but in addition t that the patients did have to use a trained voice.
Hi Anjaq, thank you for your answer.
My female voice is quite good considering where I'm coming from. But more and more I often slip into low range, which has become a nightmare. This is me talking with the controlled voice: https://youtu.be/TGO3OunZV_0
The Glottoplasty was not available in 2003 when I did the transition and the results I've heard with this technique has literally made me cry.
Did you have had this type of surgery?
I'm scared ->-bleeped-<-less that the surgery will not be able to correct this voice once and for all. Dr Remacle told me that he can guarantee me between 50 to 100 hz of gain, if it's 100 that's great but what if it's only 50 Hz....I'll still have to control this bloody voice
Quote from: thegreenrabbit on April 20, 2015, 11:04:23 AM
It'll be interesting to hear the results, although you can expect it to take up to 9 months, before you achieve a stable result. A good tip is to look into the aftercare of the postoperative voice. All those DO and DON'Ts are what will make the difference.
Best time to have it is spring or summer. The first week I only drank water and ate smooth luke warm foods.
The first 14 days I kept my vocal folds super hydrated. During the first 3 months I've quit coffee and tea and any alchohol. Obviously smoking is out of the question. Learn to cough and clear your throat silently. To top it all off stay silent for 4 weeks. Don't freak out if you happen to say the odd word. I even learnt to sleep on my side in order to prevent snoring. It may seem like paranoia to the casual observer, but I treat aftercare as seriously as I did of making the decision to have the surgery.
Best of luck to you.
You're making very good points here Green Rabbit, thank you for confirming some of the strategies I wanted to do. Have you had the Glottoplasty with Prof Remacle?
Quote from: thegreenrabbit on April 20, 2015, 11:22:10 AM
Yes, I had tthe surgery with Pr.Remacle. Speaking French will be an advantage for you. I managed to get by with just English, but it was an experience :-).
Oh That's great !!!
Would you mind to have a short chat with me on Skype? christel75015 is my nickname
Quote from: Cristal Muso on April 20, 2015, 10:42:52 AM
Hi Anjaq, thank you for your answer.
My female voice is quite good considering where I'm coming from. But more and more I often slip into low range, which has become a nightmare. This is me talking with the controlled voice: https://youtu.be/TGO3OunZV_0
The Glottoplasty was not available in 2003 when I did the transition and the results I've heard with this technique has literally made me cry.
Did you have had this type of surgery?
I'm scared ->-bleeped-<-less that the surgery will not be able to correct this voice once and for all. Dr Remacle told me that he can guarantee me between 50 to 100 hz of gain, if it's 100 that's great but what if it's only 50 Hz....I'll still have to control this bloody voice
I had the glottoplasty done at the Yeson Clinic 7 weeks ago. My motivation was more or less very similar. I transitioned in 1998 and back then, no good voice surgery was available. There was mostly the CTA method and one or two people here did the glottoplasty. In both cases there was a high risk of a hoarse, breathy, broken, too high pitched voice or even loss of voice. So it was not an option for me. However after 15 years I developed serious voice issues, I lost my pitch over the years, often dropped in pitch when I did not watch it, could not really do my trained voice as well anymore and it caused me issues from too much tension in the vocal muscles. I did speech therapy again to get this under control but as a result my pitch dropped even further, since that was what was needed to make the relaxation of the muscles. I saw some of the videos here in the forum of women who had a glottoplasty and they sounded so good, I also literally cried. Especially as they said it is no effort, comes just naturally and they dont ever have to think about it again. I still had doubts, so I collected all information I could find over a year and then decided to go to Yeson. There was little information about Remarcle at that time, so I did not have him on my list.
Aftercare is really really important I think. I believe part of why this surgery still has a bad reputation in Germany is because people are not given much aftercare instructions or dont follow them. I read several times of people who smoked and did so after the surgery - or who talked after a week or as soon as they could. And I have heard some bad voices and when asking why it is that, they blame it on themselves for smoking, but they were somehow still happy as it still sounded female - just like a broken female voice. I did not want that, so I picked one of the best surgeons and followed the aftercare as best as I could.
I think glottoplasty can give you a feminine voice for sure - it does not only raise pitch but also eliminates the low undertones that just always are there in a voice coming from long and massive vocal chords. So even if you are at an increase of only 50 Hz, that would bring you toi 170 Hz which still is a somewhat low female range. In addition to that, my impression so far is, that it is far far easier to do a bit of a trained voice on top of that. Just a tiny bit, its almost effortless - basically just do resonance control - "speaking from the mouth" - and it goes up a little bit into a good range.
I think I started also at 110-120 Hz, although Dr Kim measured 134 Hz - but I think I just did not relax enough. So I did a standard text reading yesterday and already came out at 177 Hz on average - and I think it is very female sounding. You already know how to feminize your voice in other aspects, so that helps a ton. It means that you probably will sound similar to your trained voice, but with a more feminine touch to it and without having to use effort.
Quote from: anjaq on April 20, 2015, 02:22:13 PM
I had the glottoplasty done at the Yeson Clinic 7 weeks ago. My motivation was more or less very similar. I transitioned in 1998 and back then, no good voice surgery was available. There was mostly the CTA method and one or two people here did the glottoplasty. In both cases there was a high risk of a hoarse, breathy, broken, too high pitched voice or even loss of voice. So it was not an option for me. However after 15 years I developed serious voice issues, I lost my pitch over the years, often dropped in pitch when I did not watch it, could not really do my trained voice as well anymore and it caused me issues from too much tension in the vocal muscles. I did speech therapy again to get this under control but as a result my pitch dropped even further, since that was what was needed to make the relaxation of the muscles. I saw some of the videos here in the forum of women who had a glottoplasty and they sounded so good, I also literally cried. Especially as they said it is no effort, comes just naturally and they dont ever have to think about it again. I still had doubts, so I collected all information I could find over a year and then decided to go to Yeson. There was little information about Remarcle at that time, so I did not have him on my list.
Aftercare is really really important I think. I believe part of why this surgery still has a bad reputation in Germany is because people are not given much aftercare instructions or dont follow them. I read several times of people who smoked and did so after the surgery - or who talked after a week or as soon as they could. And I have heard some bad voices and when asking why it is that, they blame it on themselves for smoking, but they were somehow still happy as it still sounded female - just like a broken female voice. I did not want that, so I picked one of the best surgeons and followed the aftercare as best as I could.
I think glottoplasty can give you a feminine voice for sure - it does not only raise pitch but also eliminates the low undertones that just always are there in a voice coming from long and massive vocal chords. So even if you are at an increase of only 50 Hz, that would bring you toi 170 Hz which still is a somewhat low female range. In addition to that, my impression so far is, that it is far far easier to do a bit of a trained voice on top of that. Just a tiny bit, its almost effortless - basically just do resonance control - "speaking from the mouth" - and it goes up a little bit into a good range.
I think I started also at 110-120 Hz, although Dr Kim measured 134 Hz - but I think I just did not relax enough. So I did a standard text reading yesterday and already came out at 177 Hz on average - and I think it is very female sounding. You already know how to feminize your voice in other aspects, so that helps a ton. It means that you probably will sound similar to your trained voice, but with a more feminine touch to it and without having to use effort.
Anjaq THANK YOU so much for explaining what you've been thru, and that you've taken time to explain extensively your life and surgery experience.
I just can't believe how similar our experience is...Scary even (LOL) on the similarities but very comforting that another woman had come across the same struggles and challenges. Thank you for that
You bring me some hopes about my voice. Can you describe me the after care process you're talking about ? I've stopped smoking 7 months ago, and I don't drink alcohol and intend to not speak for 20 days (Prof Remacle recommend 10 days for some reasons) I want to be sure it's heal strongly
I wish I would be in your town I would be glad to talk to you around a tea or coffee ;)
Hi - no problem. Yes, Indeed I happen to have come across several women who decided - 10-15 years after initially transitioning to use the modern surgeries and improve theor lives with FFS and/or voice surgery.
For me it was several things. One was I could not really keep my voice from some years ago with ease, so I actually even was asked about my voice occasionally. Not often - maybe 1 ever 2-3 months, but it happened and remindend me something is still not really normal. A big issue was however also that I felt uncomfortable about it. I could not really hear my voice without feeling masculine and the urge to not do feminine things because it just does not fit to my voice. (Same thing can happen about my face, so I actually do have a FFS in mind , but lack any money for that now). So I wanted to be free and have it easy and hear my own voice and not that of some guy when I speak relaxed. Ok, I think i did not really sound that guy-ish, more androgynous even at the low pitch, but still. I also thought - will I be able to keep my trained voice in 10, 20, 30 years when I am in retirement, maybe when I need care? Or will I then look and sound like an old man who has a female name on the room sign? I know - stupid thoughts. ;)
My aftercare is according to Yesons instructions. Most of it was listed in the post above already. No speaking , no coughing (and if needed just silently by pushing air out but making no coughing sound), avoid sneezing for 4 weeks, after that 4 weeks of conversation that should be not too much. No sports or heavy lifting, no spicy food for 4 weeks, no coffee or caffeeine for 8 weeks, no alcohol for 12 weeks, smoking generally should be avoided. I drank a lot of water up to now at week 7 - I always keep a bottle with me to take a sip. I also loved the Aloe Vera drinks they sell at asia shops, its soothing on the throat. In the first 2 weeks I ate a lot of ice cream to reduce the swelling (doctors orders :P ). I tried to avoid all risk of infection with cold or flu, I also used occasionally a Machold Inhalator to moisturize my throat and set up a humidifier in my room. In a week I will start voice therapy and do voice exercises.
I put up some updatres occasionally in the thread I started on this...
I dont suppose you will be near me (in Bavaria) anytime soon, so I cannot offer you a chat in real life.
Quote from: anjaq on April 20, 2015, 02:51:25 PM
Hi - no problem. Yes, Indeed I happen to have come across several women who decided - 10-15 years after initially transitioning to use the modern surgeries and improve theor lives with FFS and/or voice surgery.
For me it was several things. One was I could not really keep my voice from some years ago with ease, so I actually even was asked about my voice occasionally. Not often - maybe 1 ever 2-3 months, but it happened and remindend me something is still not really normal. A big issue was however also that I felt uncomfortable about it. I could not really hear my voice without feeling masculine and the urge to not do feminine things because it just does not fit to my voice. (Same thing can happen about my face, so I actually do have a FFS in mind , but lack any money for that now). So I wanted to be free and have it easy and hear my own voice and not that of some guy when I speak relaxed. Ok, I think i did not really sound that guy-ish, more androgynous even at the low pitch, but still. I also thought - will I be able to keep my trained voice in 10, 20, 30 years when I am in retirement, maybe when I need care? Or will I then look and sound like an old man who has a female name on the room sign? I know - stupid thoughts. ;)
My aftercare is according to Yesons instructions. Most of it was listed in the post above already. No speaking , no coughing (and if needed just silently by pushing air out but making no coughing sound), avoid sneezing for 4 weeks, after that 4 weeks of conversation that should be not too much. No sports or heavy lifting, no spicy food for 4 weeks, no coffee or caffeeine for 8 weeks, no alcohol for 12 weeks, smoking generally should be avoided. I drank a lot of water up to now at week 7 - I always keep a bottle with me to take a sip. I also loved the Aloe Vera drinks they sell at asia shops, its soothing on the throat. In the first 2 weeks I ate a lot of ice cream to reduce the swelling (doctors orders :P ). I tried to avoid all risk of infection with cold or flu, I also used occasionally a Machold Inhalator to moisturize my throat and set up a humidifier in my room. In a week I will start voice therapy and do voice exercises.
I put up some updatres occasionally in the thread I started on this...
I dont suppose you will be near me (in Bavaria) anytime soon, so I cannot offer you a chat in real life.
Once again you're describing EXACTLY on every single points you've mentioned everything I've went thru (I had 2 sessions of FFS) and your scares about the futur are the same as mine... I thought I was the only one having those thoughts, I was wrong.
I can't wait to read about your journey, I've no idea about the speech therapy and exercises that is required
I've given my Skype on a previous post, so if you feel like it...
(Btw I'm safe, I'm on Youtube I'm the 1st World Harmonica Performer I've got 17 Million views and I'm just a nice chick)
I dont think those thoughts are so rare ;) - just being Trans and getting older is not really a topic that is spoken of very often. Part of why I consider FFS is my age - I dont look as feminine anymore as I did with age 24. Two sessions are a bit - I think if I would do this, I would try to do one session. I did have some consultations with Dr Bart and Facialteam last year, but decided that my voice is a bigger issue for myself. So I spent my money on that and am pretty much broke now... I may consider FFS in the future again though. The simulations from Alexandra during the consultations were very very tempting.
My thread is starting off over a year ago when I was still fighting with the "hourglass glottis" from using my voice badly and speaking too high pitched for years, so maybe thats a bit boring at first.
I will try Skype
Just an update:
Countdown to the Wendler glottoplasty : 43 days now...
I don't understand what's happening to me. I get more and more anxious and I begin to think that the surgery will be a failure, it's completely irrational. For god sake, 13 years ago I've had 7 surgeries, FFS, SRS and everything else, and I've NEVER have had any doubts on the positive outcome
And now that I'm suppose to get the last piece of the puzzle I feel depressed and SCARED ->-bleeped-<-less that it might NOT work.
I don't think there is anything wrong with being a little scared. Although I think in this case the worst result you will get is something similar to what you already have... can't see that happening though.
Those that have complained about their results sound pretty good to me, and I'm pretty critical when it comes to detecting male qualities in my own voice.
The worst results all tend to happen to those who have been impatient to push their new voice. There have been a few who have complained about their results and on reading how long post-op they are, it soon becomes clear they are not even fully healed yet.
As I say though, even they sound ok to me.
Quote from: Helen Green on April 22, 2015, 04:14:20 PM
I don't think there is anything wrong with being a little scared. Although I think in this case the worst result you will get is something similar to what you already have... can't see that happening though.
Those that have complained about their results sound pretty good to me, and I'm pretty critical when it comes to detecting male qualities in my own voice.
The worst results all tend to happen to those who have been impatient to push their new voice. There have been a few who have complained about their results and on reading how long post-op they are, it soon becomes clear they are not even fully healed yet.
As I say though, even they sound ok to me.
Thank you so much Helen, you know what you've said is absolutely right respecting the healing process (not talking, and speech therapy) is crucial for the success of this particular surgery. I've all intentions to be a good girl and following thoroughly the indications given. having said that it's been SO LONG (6 years that I've got problems, 13 years that the monster is still there) that I need this surgery to begin to live again. I'm really scared that it won't work
3rd Of May
Anjaq (operated at Yeson) and another GreenRabbit (operated by Professor Remacle, but can't talk for now)) have been very kind and helpful to give me some very good tips and informations for what's to come, I'm very grateful to them.
Nevertheless, 32 days before the surgery, and I'm more and more nervous and scared of failure. This feeling doesn't go away
I'm a bit scared as well, I go to yeson in late June.
I think surgery is ALWAYS scary - just sometimes it does not feel that way because one suffers enough without it to feel that there is no other way anyways, that it just can get better and therelike.
I felt the same - having had a voice that "works" and not suffering dreadfully from it, so I also was scared - if my voice was 100% unpassable before, or even 20% unpassable, I would have been more scared to live on with that, rather than be scared of surgery.
when it comes to FFS, I may actually be beyond that "border" where the fear of surgery may be bigger than the desire for change. But in that case also, for osme people FFS is not scary, because they are more scared of not having it and be treated as trans or as guys all the time...
But I think VFS with those really good specialist is not that scary anymore. It seems to me the worst case is , that the change will be too small. At least in the own perception. Previously I was scared of VFS because lots of people had hoarse voices, some even lost their voice - that does not seem to happen now with a good surgeon and proper aftercare.
24 days till the surgery
I've deleted 13 videos on Youtube where I was singing, it's more than 1 million and 800 000 views that are gone now. The past is the past and even if I don't expect to be able to sing after the surgery, I hope I will be able to.
Nervousness and anxiety are rising more and more....The result of having waited 6 years thinking about it every day.
Small update : Countdown - 10 days before the surgery. Tension and nervousness are rising, sometimes it feels like I'm about to step up on stage for a gig.
I wish more girls would of write me some messages of support (don't worry no hard feelings :-) but life is not perfect aye !
Hi there,
Leaving France for Belgium tomorrow. the Wendler glottoplasty is scheduled in 4 days.
Getting more and more nervous and exited at the same time.
Hi Cristal
Good luck with the surgery
mandy
Quote from: MANDY GG on June 01, 2015, 01:17:15 PM
Hi Cristal
Good luck with the surgery
mandy
Thank you Mandy
Good luck Cristal!
Just think about eating all that ice cream afterward like Anjaq. ;)
Hehe, yes, icecream is great - insist on it! I know you are trying to loose weight, but in this case its for a good cause ;) - basically its doctors orders ;)
My best wishes to you :) - you'll be fine.
Remember your towels, chewing gum and notepad..
You always should bring your towel... ;)
Hi Eveline, Anjaq and greenrabbit
Thank you for your advices I'm hospitalized tomorrow at 16:00 and yes I've forgot my towel. I'm so scared that Dr Remacle will tell me tomorrow that he can't perform the surgery on me for some medical reasons. I've been driving 804 km yesterday to get here. I'm so scared of not having a good result in 4 or 5 months Anja knows what I'm talking about
Anja I want to THANK YOU so much publicly for having been such a terrific friend being so patient during our Skype conversations you're great
I will leave early tomorrow morning, even if just one hour drive from Bruxelles, I need to go at the CHU Mont Godinne as peacefully as I can, it's been 30 years I wanted my voice to change, and especially the last 6 years thinking about it EVERYDAY and now it's around the corner ....
I don't know about the ice cream thing, I've lost 9 kilos during the last 2 months ....but if it's doctors prescriptions lololol
I love you all
Quote from: thegreenrabbit on June 02, 2015, 06:00:36 AM
Remember your towels, chewing gum and notepad..
Why some chewing gum ?
Dr Kim insisted on ice cream ;) . Maybe you can live without a towel, but make sure to get the icecream. you dont have to down a whole bucket of it, just some spoons once in a while for the first 2-3 days.
You'll need the towel as the hospital does not supply any. The nurses might be able to get hold of some tea towels though. The chewing gum is good to prevent speaking and it keeps the throat and vocal cords moist. I used dental gum.
Ok !!
I'm definitely good to go, had seen the anesthetic doctor and Prof. Remacle the surgery will happen tomorrow morning at 10:30
I will be able to go back to France Saturday of course being completely silent and packed with prescription for the next 15 days at least ( he's ok for me not talking for 4 weeks) the threads will dissapear between 6 to 8 weeks after the surgery
See you all in the other side
Best wishes for comfort, recovery and success, Cristal. :-*
Hi there,
3rd day being completely silent, and to be honest it's really a drag for me.
My throat is still a bit sore
What is a real challenge is not to cough, I've failed twice I think this is the organic glue that is annoying.
Give yourself rest and icecream against the soreness. Coughing cannot be avoided completely, just take care to make it as softly and silently as possible. Drinking water helps to supress it when your throat itches. Also you can take cough suppressants. My GP prescribed me codeine even, but there are over the counter meds that are ok too. DXM and such - basically the same you would get when you have a bad cold.
Being mute is not always fun, but in a way it is interesting, I thought because you learn how to be more expressive in the face and interact with people in a new way - you kind of have to guess what they would interpret into your gestures. When I did that, I alsmost made someone cry because I was a bit angry and apparently my facial expressions were so exxagerated at that time that he thought I was extremely angry... it also teaches a lesson about how people with a voice disability feel like, who have to deal with this forever - for you its just 3 weeks... ;) makes you cherish having a voice even moreso when it comes back. :)
Thanks Cristal for starting this thread. I was wondering if anyone has come to a settled conclusion on the degree to which Prof Remacle is as good as Yeson? (Yeson is an awfully long way from Europe) Also Cristal, do you mind me asking how much the surgery is with Prof Remacle? Does he have a website?
Thanks,
Sarah.
Quote from: Teslagirl on June 08, 2015, 07:06:56 PM
Thanks Cristal for starting this thread. I was wondering if anyone has come to a settled conclusion on the degree to which Prof Remacle is as good as Yeson? (Yeson is an awfully long way from Europe) Also Cristal, do you mind me asking how much the surgery is with Prof Remacle? Does he have a website?
Thanks,
Sarah.
Professor Remacle is a recognised Professor (meaningful term) I've learned at CHU Mont Godinne that he was the one who intervene on Celine Dion vocal chords.
The costs of the surgery is something like 4600 euros, which is half the price of the surgery with Dr Kim (plus the other expenses)
How exciting!
How long until you know how you sound Christal? I've yet to hear any voice samples from Professor Remacle. Will you be posting any?
Sarah.
Update
I've had the surgery 6 days ago and today is not a very good day.
My throat is back for being sore. I'm coughing almost once everyday (I'm not sure if it's the organic glue that does that). Even if Prof. Remacle told me that coughing every once in a while or even pronouncing a word or two, is not really a big deal, believe me it's SO SCARY, given the time I've been waiting for this surgery
But of course I don't speak at all. Doing my food shopping completely silent is a new experience, people mainly are taking me for a tone deaf/mute.
I'm VERY, EXTREMELY anxious that the surgery might fail for some reasons (something going wrong with the sutures, or vocal chords not enough shorten....). But I I've to live with this at least till the 26th of June, the day I'll be allowed by Professor Remacle to talk again
Quote from: Cristal Muso on June 11, 2015, 04:58:58 AM
Update
I've had the surgery 6 days ago and today is not a very good day.
My throat is back for being sore. I'm coughing almost once everyday (I'm not sure if it's the organic glue that does that). Even if Prof. Remacle told me that coughing every once in a while or even pronouncing a word or two, is not really a big deal, believe me it's SO SCARY, given the time I've been waiting for this surgery
But of course I don't speak at all. Doing my food shopping completely silent is a new experience, people mainly are taking me for a tone deaf/mute.
I'm VERY, EXTREMELY anxious that the surgery might fail for some reasons (something going wrong with the sutures, or vocal chords not enough shorten....). But I I've to live with this at least till the 26th of June, the day I'll be allowed by Professor Remacle to talk again
Don't worry about a few minor coughs! It sounds like you are being very diligent and it's going to pay off. Stay strong, it's not as far away as you think :)
Just a question for you all:
Would you be interested if I record a video once a week to show the evolution of my voice, my thoughts and work on it?
Hi
I would be interested to see how long it takes.
Mandy
Quote from: Cristal Muso on June 13, 2015, 10:59:05 AM
Just a question for you all:
Would you be interested if I record a video once a week to show the evolution of my voice, my thoughts and work on it?
Absolutely!!
That would be very useful.
The replies seem a bit late ... :-\