I brought this up within the passing thread a while back, but it's been eating at me more. Pre-T I passed roughly 75% of the time, but since about 4 months on T, I hardly ever pass. I didn't pass once between 4 and 6.5 months, and now at nearly 8 months, I only rarely pass. I fixed every tiny little detail people said could be the culprit, but there weren't many, and they didn't help at all. I'm getting really discouraged about this because I haven't ever heard of this happening to any other transguy before unless they stopped hormones, so really I just want to know, did anyone else struggle with this, and when did it get better, if it did? Do you have any advice for dealing with it?
You could have a look here for a few hints on voice:
nyspeechandvoicelab dot net/transgender/voice-masculinization/
men tend to speak more monotone, with less ups and downs of voice...
they also tend to use more direct language.
Has your voice changed on t ?
Men kind of walk with their shoulders... and kind of direct... women are a bit more easy going...
Quote from: Laura_7 on May 03, 2015, 01:33:02 PM
You could have a look here for a few hints on voice:
nyspeechandvoicelab dot net/transgender/voice-masculinization/
men tend to speak more monotone, with less ups and downs of voice...
they also tend to use more direct language.
Has your voice changed on t ?
Men kind of walk with their shoulders... and kind of direct... women are a bit more easy going...
Thanks for the link! I'll check it out. My voice has definitely changed, and to me it sounds male, but I know I'm a biased opinion. Seems like anyone who sees me as male thinks my voice is male but I haven't felt up to putting a voice clip up to ask those who haven't talked to me/seen me before.
I have a link to my blog in my description, and in my 'transition' section, I have some videos of me that show a bit of the voice change, but I didn't start videos right away, so it doesn't document the entire voice change.
Well imo there are a few things that can be done fairly fast...
like said, men tend to speak with a bit less ups and downs...
saying really a woman for example would go up and down a few times... a man would maybe go slightly up at the end...
do you wear unisex or mens clothing ?
what colours ?
What did your friends say what might be changed ?
I have noticed a characteristic that seems to happen with testosterone around the third and fourth month, which is that it bloats the face up. This probably causes an even worse baby face if you have one. But I don't know, that's just my own observation. I could be wrong.
Well I'm only able to play the 6 month vid...
from there I'd say most things look really good...
and the voice sounds good to me...
I checked your video and I think it's the haircut, voice could use some work. You have a VERY round face and I think what would really help is a very short on the sides, long on top type haircut to elongate the face. The current cut you have makes it rounder.
Dean, I really don't think you need to look further than being in a college environment. There are genderqueer people/masculine identified lesbians and just in general people are playing around with gender expression in college. The residential area near your college are people who are used to seeing all different types of college kids, so that is your answer to the town residents.
Whenever I come upon a college aged student ;I live near a university ), I am read as female ( well a month ago I was).
Drive two towns over and you will be read as male.
Also, is your face puffy from the T? It causes your face to be more round. Mine is, so maybe yours is too. You only recently went up to full dose. Could it be bloating?
Did you get rid of that fake colored hair ?
the face and haircut seem fine to me. The voice could probly use some work, but that will happen once you been on T longer, you can tell its breaking.
I think you should work on your voice inflections. I watched your 7 month video on as soon as you said "Hey guys!", the voice inflection you used is definitely more feminine. However, when you spoke more monotone (just like Laura described) you sounded much more masculine, as your voice definitely has a male tone.
I also agree with DragonBeer that a haircut could serve you well. Try getting a nice medium fade on the sides but leaving length up top, but styling it upwards in a something like a fauxhawk or quiff.
Thank you for all of the replies!
Regarding the haircut- my hair is a short on sides, long on top cut, but sadly none of my videos really show that. It was when it was red and I got it too short when I cut the red out, but now it's finally back to short sides long top. Yes I got the red out, you should be able to see it in some more recent videos. (Just it's too short on top in those).im making an 8 month video in a few days so you should see it then. I'm hopefully going to get it touched up before I make the video.
Bimmer guy, As for the college thing, that really doesn't explain why I passed when I started at college. I definitely passed the first few months I was here. If I never passed, that would make more sense to me I guess. Though bloated face may have a bit to do with it, since that seems to be starting to go down.
Ryan, which video(s) did you watch? I'm curious which voice you're referencing.
Aero, thank you for the specifics. That makes sense. There are probably certain phrases im saying that I say too feminine, that sounds very reasonable.
Dean, I thought I remembered you talking about not passing when you got there. I was guessing about the bloated face. I can't see your videos on my phone.
Quote from: Bimmer Guy on May 03, 2015, 05:55:49 PM
Dean, I thought I remembered you talking about not passing when you got there. I was guessing about the bloated face. I can't see your videos on my phone.
I passed for the first at least month or two, I definitely remember that because the guards kept telling me they thought I was someone's younger brother and I looked too young to be a student XD
I think bloated face is a thing that happened, because I definitely noticed my face slimming down a tad more recently.
It was the 7 month video
I am on my laptop and able to look at the videos. I am not sure why you are NOT passing to be honest. The 7 month video you do seem to be speaking more from your chest than from your throat. That is my biggest problem...I still speak from my throat and palate, so the voice sounds higher. I have to "think" in order to speak from my chest. You may find your voice sounding lower if you pay attention to where you are speaking from (try to speak from your chest/lower register). I want to find some videos or something on voice therapy for the FTM.
I think that T is really suiting you well.
ETA: I meant to say NOT!
Dean, I haven't watched your videos yet, but do you think it is mannerism related at all?
I pass very consistently, but I've found that in situations where I have to talk a lot, it isn't my voice that makes people second guess, but the hand motions and other body language type things.
Quote from: ftmax on May 04, 2015, 06:04:59 AM
Dean, I haven't watched your videos yet, but do you think it is mannerism related at all?
I pass very consistently, but I've found that in situations where I have to talk a lot, it isn't my voice that makes people second guess, but the hand motions and other body language type things.
I tend to get misgendered in all sorts of situations. I think I actually pass better when I have a chance to show mannerisms and stuff. It's generally when the person has just seen my face and I haven't talked. For example the people serving at the dining hall got it right today when I walked up and asked for what I wanted, but the security guards when I drive up before I speak always say ma'am. So I don't think its mannerisms entirely.
Quote from: CursedFireDean on May 04, 2015, 12:40:11 PM
I tend to get misgendered in all sorts of situations. I think I actually pass better when I have a chance to show mannerisms and stuff. It's generally when the person has just seen my face and I haven't talked. For example the people serving at the dining hall got it right today when I walked up and asked for what I wanted, but the security guards when I drive up before I speak always say ma'am. So I don't think its mannerisms entirely.
Just had a look. This is going to sound like I'm talking out of my butt, but I swear these are a real thing. They are actually really interesting and cool to learn about. I am only suggesting it because there is seriously nothing else about you that is jumping out at me as not male.
Microexpressions. It is subtle enough that you wouldn't realize you're doing it, and if you were to put those people on the spot, I would almost guarantee that they wouldn't quite be able to put a finger on why they ma'amed you.
Speaking from personal experience - as someone socialized female throughout adolescence (in the south, where gender roles are kind of a thing), my default towards strangers or other randomly encountered folks like security guards had generally been one of passive appeasement, or happiness/friendliness. Guys are typically more neutral in the same situations. If you take it a step up, think about how guys acknowledge each other, and how women do. With guys, it's a head nod if anything. Girls will smile at each other, or their eyes will at least lighten.
They're an involuntary reflex. You can adopt a more neutral base expression with practice, but if social interaction makes you tense in any way, you're more likely to revert to doing what comes naturally.
I didn't see a picture but two things can happen:
1. You are experiencing rounding, bloating due to "steriod effects of T". I believe this takes a year or two to resolve, but it does resolve.
2. You are actually converting T to estrogen. This does happen. You can find out by having your doctor run an estrogen level. It's common, I think.
--Jay
Ok, I'm going to be as harsh as possible but I don't think you look like a girl at all.
I watched your videos and your voice definitely needs work, and it's not just the pitch. HOWEVER, I know a LOT of gay men with the SAME voice, so I'm not sure I would question whether or not you were female.
I'm not sure how you carry yourself when you walk, or any of your other mannerisms, but perhaps try and film yourself. Set a camera up in your house, and just watch your movements; see if there's any sort of giveaway on that end.
But still, you look male to me - and I would just assume you were gay, as ignorant as that sounds. I don't necessarily believe in stereotypes but I'm just saying if I was going to make any assumptions about you, that would be the most I would ever think of when referring to you specifically. So just to sum up, if I were to think anything at all, it'd just be that you were fem gay.
So I'm not really sure why exactly you're being mis-gendered.
Some of the other guys definitely gave good advice in regards to the voice.
And don't worry - your voice will continue to change.
Mine changed until probably 1.5 years on T, and my body - even though fully passed pre-T - changed a LOT. Even from year 1 - 3. I am almost 4 years on and I look back to pics of me just a couple years ago and I look a lot different.
FTMax- that is a good point, thanks. I was also raised in the south, and I think you probably hit the nail on the head. I didn't even think about that. But I definitely default to cautiously friendly towards new people, which as you said isn't really a masculine thing here in the south. That's going to take conscious effort to change for sure.
Hayzer12- Thanks man. At this point, I am grateful for harsh, because at this point, I think I have to be nit-picky about small tiny things. (Also I'm in a good mood which helps me take these things well :D) As ftmax said, microexpressions could be a factor. As for voice, do you have some advice, or perhaps could point out specific things you may have noticed? I do think it's not as male as I'd like, but it's hard for me to pinpoint what I can fix about it myself and what I just need to be patient for on T. As you said, my voice will probably continue changing. I have been trying to change some of the thins previously mentioned, like trying to not vary my voice so much. It'd be easier if I could hear my voice as if I were a stranger though XD
Jay- I should see about that. I will be switching doctors soonish, and I am definitely going to bring up my concerns with the new doctor.
*also a note, I uploaded a new 8 month video to my blog and I just got my hair trimmed
Quote from: CursedFireDean on May 07, 2015, 05:44:42 PM
FTMax- that is a good point, thanks. I was also raised in the south, and I think you probably hit the nail on the head. I didn't even think about that. But I definitely default to cautiously friendly towards new people, which as you said isn't really a masculine thing here in the south. That's going to take conscious effort to change for sure.
Hayzer12- Thanks man. At this point, I am grateful for harsh, because at this point, I think I have to be nit-picky about small tiny things. (Also I'm in a good mood which helps me take these things well :D) As ftmax said, microexpressions could be a factor. As for voice, do you have some advice, or perhaps could point out specific things you may have noticed? I do think it's not as male as I'd like, but it's hard for me to pinpoint what I can fix about it myself and what I just need to be patient for on T. As you said, my voice will probably continue changing. I have been trying to change some of the thins previously mentioned, like trying to not vary my voice so much. It'd be easier if I could hear my voice as if I were a stranger though XD
Jay- I should see about that. I will be switching doctors soonish, and I am definitely going to bring up my concerns with the new doctor.
*also a note, I uploaded a new 8 month video to my blog and I just got my hair trimmed
Holy voice drop Batman! This has been a big month for you! Not only voice drop (did you notice??), but face looks different, and it is not just the shorter on the sides hair (which I recently started doing on advice of friends). Your face shape is different.
Quote from: Bimmer Guy on May 07, 2015, 06:01:33 PM
Holy voice drop Batman! This has been a big month for you! Not only voice drop (did you notice??), but face looks different, and it is not just the shorter on the sides hair (which I recently started doing on advice of friends). Your face shape is different.
To be completely honest, I actually didn't notice XD Someone did say my voice had gotten deeper over the two weeks they were out of town though :3 But I just played both videos back to back and I hear the difference now.
There's a guy on youtube who went thru the round face thing, Closet Transgender. Funny how his face changes. But he does clearly have a moon type face for awhile. As luck would happen, he has an excellent channel, but you don't really have to watch the videos to see it.
Might check this out: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkvpImuiSdP9cCOxqabiULQ
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on May 09, 2015, 01:06:00 AM
There's a guy on youtube who went thru the round face thing, Closet Transgender. Funny how his face changes. But he does clearly have a moon type face for awhile. As luck would happen, he has an excellent channel, but you don't really have to watch the videos to see it.
Might check this out: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkvpImuiSdP9cCOxqabiULQ
--Jay
Thanks Jay! I'll definitely take a look when I get a chance. I looked through old video thumbnails and I see what you mean :) my roommate is asleep right now and i can't find my headphones so I'll check out his channel tomorrow!
Quote
I'm not sure how you carry yourself when you walk, or any of your other mannerisms, but perhaps try and film yourself. Set a camera up in your house, and just watch your movements; see if there's any sort of giveaway on that end.
You could show a bit more of you... maybe making a vid where your chest can be seen, and showing some mannerism...
maybe getting a bit further backwards from your pc...
for privacy you could leave the vid up only a few days if you would prefer that...
This happened to me to some extent in the first several months on T. I came to the conclusion that I wasn't passing as a result of mismatched situations so to speak. My voice was deepening but at the same time sounding like I had just hit puberty. Aside from that I had just started getting facial hair. Those aspects combined with looking much older in OTHER ways (i.e. dressed for work) was sort of a dead giveaway that I wasn't a cis gendered male.
Long story short, maybe context is the issue. It'll pass with time. Best of luck.