I'm going with Haben! June 10th is my surgery date. Pre-op consult on the 9th,post-op check up on the 11th. He made the most sense for the price. I'm hoping he does some computer analysis at the Pre-op. I'm hoping I can get away without the CTA. I'm deathly afraid of ending up with a Mini Mouse going! I'm a big girl (six foot, two hundred lbs), so it's probably more organic sounding if I land in the 180 to 200hz range. I will be going with the track shave at the same time for 7k including hotel, I couldn't pass that up while I was under the knife! His front office girl, Julie, was nice, professional, and answered my questions to the best of her ability. She seemed in the know on what stuff would be happening at which visits. I'm scared, excited, anxious, nervous, and hopeful all at the same time! Lol I guess I better record my before voice for y'all, huh?
Wow, congrats! Yes, let us hear you now so we can hear you afterward for comparison. ;)
I am going to have an in-office consult with him in Aug (since I am driving right past his office on my way to Montreal). Julie was very nice, like you said, and Dr. Haben was kind enough to email back an forth with me several times before I paid for the consult. I am looking forward to reading about your impression of him and the whole experience!
That's awesome, Ainsley! Did you happen to get any additional before/after voice samples from him? ;)
Thanks! Kinda stoked about it.... :)
Nothing more than what is available on his site.
Quote from: Cadence Jean on May 04, 2015, 01:48:00 PM
I'm going with Haben! June 10th is my surgery date. Pre-op consult on the 9th,post-op check up on the 11th. He made the most sense for the price. I'm hoping he does some computer analysis at the Pre-op. I'm hoping I can get away without the CTA. I'm deathly afraid of ending up with a Mini Mouse going! I'm a big girl (six foot, two hundred lbs), so it's probably more organic sounding if I land in the 180 to 200hz range. I will be going with the track shave at the same time for 7k including hotel, I couldn't pass that up while I was under the knife! His front office girl, Julie, was nice, professional, and answered my questions to the best of her ability. She seemed in the know on what stuff would be happening at which visits. I'm scared, excited, anxious, nervous, and hopeful all at the same time! Lol I guess I better record my before voice for y'all, huh?
So excited for you! I'm hoping to undergo the procedure in the fall (when I can afford to take time away from work) and also looking only at the glottoplasty if at all possible. I've been very impressed by his work and I wish you the best of luck in having a great result :)
Here's the (in)famous Rainbow Passage in my daily speaking voice: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1sSyKAXjFcc
Here's the passage in my "relaxed" voice that I no longer use(except to freak people out! lol): http://vocaroo.com/i/s1ShlOrkxg8V
Once I'm talking again after surgery, I'll post some samples during my recovery. :)
TWO MORE DAYS. SQUEEEEEEEE!
Quote from: Cadence Jean on June 08, 2015, 10:03:52 AM
TWO MORE DAYS. SQUEEEEEEEE!
I'm really excited for you and looking forward to your updates!!
I just scheduled a consult with Dr. Haben in July, I'll be making a trip out to NYC and figured I may as well take the scenic route and make better use of my trip. :)
Haha! Nicely! Best wishes!
welcome to the Haben club. and you dont have to worry so much about the MM voice. thats a thing of the past when dealing with him. your voice might sound high at first. but after a week or two it starts to normalize off. im not even at my 6 month mark and i can tell you im very happy with the results
Quote from: warmbody28 on June 11, 2015, 06:40:03 PM
welcome to the Haben club. and you dont have to worry so much about the MM voice. thats a thing of the past when dealing with him. your voice might sound high at first. but after a week or two it starts to normalize off. im not even at my 6 month mark and i can tell you im very happy with the results
Yay! Yes, you sound great in what you've posted! My surgery went well. I Can't say the same for my flights with United. Needless to say, I will be lodging a complaint and never flying with them again. For a small taste, at one point we ended up in Charlotte, North Carolina with our third cancellation for a connecting flight to our destination during this trip. THIRD. And we didn't find these out until getting to the airport we were connecting from! Anyway, I'm doing pretty well. Swallowing has become easier. The right side of my tongue and mouth are still numb. My right jaw joint and ear aren't hurting as bad when I eat now. I'm waiting to get my bag(since that didn't come with me during one leg of the journey home) so I can resume taking the antibiotics and steroids, etc that Dr Haben prescribed me.
Dr. Haben himself has been awesome. So has Julie at his a office. Even tho we missed the pre-op on Tuesday during flight snafus. He rescheduled with me for Wednesday morning at his office, then we went directly to the surgery center from there. Working on getting meds called in from him now to a local pharmacy, since I don't know when my bag will get here. I really want the se antibiotics since I'm not allowed to wash my incision. I will post more as my recovery continues!
PS Already amazed at trach shave results! Even with swelling, my neck is MUCH smoother than before!! Also, he said CTA went well and for the glottoplasty,,, he achieved roughly a 45%reduction in vocal cord length! O_O Seems like a lot to me, but we discussed my body size and keeping me in the low female range. I guess time will tell! Thanks for the well wishing!
For those interested, here are the pics from surgery. :)
http://imgur.com/sUqBDkS
Quote from: Cadence Jean on June 12, 2015, 10:18:44 AM
Yay! Yes, you sound great in what you've posted! My surgery went well. I Can't say the same for my flights with United. Needless to say, I will be lodging a complaint and never flying with them again. For a small taste, at one point we ended up in Charlotte, North Carolina with our third cancellation for a connecting flight to our destination during this trip. THIRD. And we didn't find these out until getting to the airport we were connecting from! Anyway, I'm doing pretty well. Swallowing has become easier. The right side of my tongue and mouth are still numb. My right jaw joint and ear aren't hurting as bad when I eat now. I'm waiting to get my bag(since that didn't come with me during one leg of the journey home) so I can resume taking the antibiotics and steroids, etc that Dr Haben prescribed me.
Dr. Haben himself has been awesome. So has Julie at his a office. Even tho we missed the pre-op on Tuesday during flight snafus. He rescheduled with me for Wednesday morning at his office, then we went directly to the surgery center from there. Working on getting meds called in from him now to a local pharmacy, since I don't know when my bag will get here. I really want the se antibiotics since I'm not allowed to wash my incision. I will post more as my recovery continues!
PS Already amazed at trach shave results! Even with swelling, my neck is MUCH smoother than before!! Also, he said CTA went well and for the glottoplasty,,, he achieved roughly a 45%reduction in vocal cord length! O_O Seems like a lot to me, but we discussed my body size and keeping me in the low female range. I guess time will tell! Thanks for the well wishing!
Sorry about the flights, but very glad that your surgery went well! So you opted for the CTA as well? I'm still really nervous about that. Best wishes during your recovery :)
Yep, I tip the triple. Dr. Haben's reasoning seemed sound. He said CTA would give me an extra couple note increases. Also, I guess he's been doing these about fifteen years, so he knows what he's doing and has refined his technique. ;)
Quote from: Cadence Jean on June 12, 2015, 02:52:02 PM
Yep, I tip the triple. Dr. Haben's reasoning seemed sound. He said CTA would give me an extra couple note increases. Also, I guess he's been doing these about fifteen years, so he knows what he's doing and has refined his technique. ;)
He definitely seems to know what he's doing. I'm finally booked but not until the fall so I'll have some time to do more research on the CTA. I'm not so worried about the cost, just the scar, added recovery time, and what effects it might have on my clarinet playing. So far, the glottoplasty results sound good, but those combined with a CTA seem even better. Anyway, congratulations on your surgery and I look forward to your updates :)
Cadence, I absolutely cannot wait to hear your post-op voice results! I think I might go with Dr. Haben as well. Hope you are experiencing a speedy and comfortable recovery!
Thanks, Roni! Things are going well here. The numbness in my tongue is slowly ebbing. The tip has more feeling in it. The side and back down where it connects further into my throat is still numb and a little sore. Swallowing became a bit easier yesterday, on Monday I'd get this funny kinda cartilidge "pop"(not audible, but I could feel it) when swallowing. Now that happens rarely. Must have to do with swelling. Speaking of which, I've had surprisingly little. The hollow at the base of my neck became bruised and swelled so one can't even tell it's a hollow. Lol But as for my neck itself, very little. I've forced out a couple words yesterday and today, even tho I'm a day early. ;) They are croaky, but I can already hear the baser of the results. My pitch, with my voice relaxed, has certainly been increased!! XD I'm still taking the narcotic cough syrup on a semi-regular basis to keep my coughing down. I have environmental allergies, so I tend to have to clear my throat quite a bit and some times cough up some phlegm (pretty picture, right?). The cough syrup helps to stop the tickle that makes me cough. :) I've also been taking a low dose of motrin to keep the inflammation down. Really, starting yesterday, I think I'm past the worst of it and on the rebound now! :D tomorrow, I see my pcp to get the stitches out. And then wasn't sure if I should immediately start with silicone scar sheets or give the incision a week or so to settle a bit? Suggestions?
I should also emotion that I've been a bad girl: despite doctor's orders, I've been showering! I've been covering the surgical tape over the incision with a waterproof wound covering. Works well, except one day when it didn't completely seal. I got standing water on the incision then. I dried it really well, and ran an ionic dryer over it on the lowest setting until the tape felt dry. Doubt it's been a problem. The after care for the incision appears to be voodoo anyway: if you look up incision care for thyroid surgery, you'll see doctors prescribe all sorts of different regimens. I consider haben's no showering rule more of a guideline than a hard and fast rule. I think the important thing is just not to submerse it for an extended period, and to make sure to dry it well after getting it wet!
Not sure when exactly I'll post a voice sample. Depends on how my cords feel after I croak out some sentences tomorrow. ;)
Cadence, I am glad you are doing well! And I am still interested in your postings about this, very much.
Question: No showering rule? I have not heard about this. Can you elaborate?
Sure! Haben's aftercare instructions include not showering until the stitch is removed from the neck incision. This only applies to individuals who go for the CTA and/or thyroid chondroplasty(aka trach shave), because those who opt for only the endoscopic laryngoplasty will not have an external incision. His instructions say that washing oneself is fine, but do not get the incision /dressing wet. He recommended do washing one's hair in a sink.
I'm like, ->-bleeped-<- that ->-bleeped-<-. Lol I'm ratchet when it comes to my hair. Lol also, Im' naturally blonde, so I still have facial hair to shave even after a course of laser hair removal. I used 3M "absolute waterproof" pads over the surgical tape covering my incision. They worked pretty well for keeping it dry while I had a full shower as normal.
If anybody is interested, I could scan the aftercare instructions and share them here?
I am interested, if you feel so inclined. :)
Yea, I have had electro and laser, but I still have many grey/white hairs that I have to cut down regularly, so not getting wet would be tough. I share your sentiment on the hair care and sink washing. ha! I plan to do the triple (at least that is what he is evaluating me for in Aug.), so I will have the incision.
Quote from: Cadence Jean on June 17, 2015, 11:07:41 AM
If anybody is interested, I could scan the aftercare instructions and share them here?
That would be great, thank you.
I'm glad your recovery is going well, looking forward to hearing your results!
I hope your consult goes well and that he's able to help you out like you're hoping. :) he's a swell guy. I even patted him on the arm once cuz I couldn't talk, and he smiled like he was affected. Lol hard to describe... I want to bake him cookies and pour him a glass of milk! Lol
Thanks! I think I totally understand what you mean about him. I have heard similar nice things about him, too. My experience emailing back and forth with him was very good, and he is that way in text, too, if that makes sense. I am looking forward to meeting him.
Hey Cadence, I hope you are recovering well girl! I can't wait to hear your voice.
I'm not ready to post a sample of my voice. It sounds awful, as expected! lol I can hear the pitch increase inside of the gravel and grit though. It's impressive. There's this sort of...melodic sound to it that I don't recall or remember before? It's kind of hard to describe. Maybe the other girls who have had vfs know what I'm talking about?
As promised, here's a scan of the aftercare instructions:
http://i.imgur.com/xmbrL3y.png (http://i.imgur.com/xmbrL3y.png)
And here's a pic of my incision without the steristrips, but with the suture still in:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FKHMdm3X.jpg&hash=d2937d076ed950adc75e557db79b94d7622a2718)
And after the suture had been removed:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhBBkqTe.jpg&hash=25cfcecb92c28a228374356279da142531bced26)
I went to my usual PA to get the suture removed. Once she got the strips off, she was like, "I have never seen a suture like this before." lol She had to call in one of her supervising physicians because she was worried about screwing up the incision by pulling it out wrong. I passed along Haben's instructions to cut the right side of the suture flush with the skin, and then pull from the left side. So, that's what the physician did. The suture didn't want to come at first...it felt like it was zigzagged under the skin like you would have expected to see above the skin? If that makes sense. So, the physician put a little pressure near where the suture was protruding on the left side, with the fingers of his other hand, and then "pulled the zip cord" with his other hand. lol It was over so quickly, I didn't even realize it was happening. lol It hurt a bit at first when he started pulling until whatever was keeping it lodged in there let go. :) I'm doing well now - so glad to be able to wash it and shave around it!! I was told that once that little bit of scab falls off, I can start with the silicone scar sheets. I think what I'll do though is use coconut oil during the day at work, and then the scar sheets outside of work. I feel better about not having a big scar sheet on my neck at work...vs showing my incision, I guess. I don't know why - it just seems more comfortable for me to show the incision instead of the sheet(which looks like a weirdly oversized bandaid - maybe that's why! lol). Anybody else want to post their scar care regimen?
Quote from: Cadence Jean on June 18, 2015, 09:51:02 PM
I'm not ready to post a sample of my voice. It sounds awful, as expected! lol I can hear the pitch increase inside of the gravel and grit though. It's impressive. There's this sort of...melodic sound to it that I don't recall or remember before? It's kind of hard to describe. Maybe the other girls who have had vfs know what I'm talking about?
As promised, here's a scan of the aftercare instructions:
http://i.imgur.com/xmbrL3y.png (http://i.imgur.com/xmbrL3y.png)
And here's a pic of my incision without the steristrips, but with the suture still in:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FKHMdm3X.jpg&hash=d2937d076ed950adc75e557db79b94d7622a2718)
And after the suture had been removed:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhBBkqTe.jpg&hash=25cfcecb92c28a228374356279da142531bced26)
I went to my usual PA to get the suture removed. Once she got the strips off, she was like, "I have never seen a suture like this before." lol She had to call in one of her supervising physicians because she was worried about screwing up the incision by pulling it out wrong. I passed along Haben's instructions to cut the right side of the suture flush with the skin, and then pull from the left side. So, that's what the physician did. The suture didn't want to come at first...it felt like it was zigzagged under the skin like you would have expected to see above the skin? If that makes sense. So, the physician put a little pressure near where the suture was protruding on the left side, with the fingers of his other hand, and then "pulled the zip cord" with his other hand. lol It was over so quickly, I didn't even realize it was happening. lol It hurt a bit at first when he started pulling until whatever was keeping it lodged in there let go. :) I'm doing well now - so glad to be able to wash it and shave around it!! I was told that once that little bit of scab falls off, I can start with the silicone scar sheets. I think what I'll do though is use coconut oil during the day at work, and then the scar sheets outside of work. I feel better about not having a big scar sheet on my neck at work...vs showing my incision, I guess. I don't know why - it just seems more comfortable for me to show the incision instead of the sheet(which looks like a weirdly oversized bandaid - maybe that's why! lol). Anybody else want to post their scar care regimen?
Thanks for the update. If you get past the bruising and redness, that scar looks like it will be really really small in about six months :). Congrats on getting through the very critical part of the silent period!
When I had my stitches removed they hadn't ever seen anything like it either. You're a tad more bruised than I was but I'm healing very fast, and I'm positive you will too :). In the after care it says don't use scar cream for 30 days after surgery. I just started using http://www.amazon.com/Mederma-Scar-Cream-Plus-SPF/dp/B001PQBELC/ several times a day.
Here's my scar after a month. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FM2LzFZC.jpg&hash=723e2b69e0a4bd161b708e038ce4b84054892282)
Edit: fixed picture link.
The bruising doesn't surprise me. I'm prone to it! My mom too. My platelet count always comes back low. That prob has something to do with it.
I got a broken link for your pic. :/
PS I'm so glad I have you girls available to chat with about this! Lol Y'all get it from a more detailed and experiential way than my cis friends. :) I'm grateful for their support in my every day life and I'm grateful for y'all's here on Susan's!
Quote from: Cadence Jean on June 19, 2015, 07:43:20 AM
PS I'm so glad I have you girls available to chat with about this! Lol Y'all get it from a more detailed and experiential way than my cis friends. :) I'm grateful for their support in my every day life and I'm grateful for y'all's here on Susan's!
True story. Agreed!
Hey all. Quick update on day 14 here. Acute pain is pretty much gone, even when swallowing. Swelling is going down slowly(typical for me). I'm VERY hoarse when I speak, but I can here the pitch has increased nicely! Over the weekend, I learned that I need to push my voice box all the way down(like talking from chest voice), otherwise it breaks like I'm a pubescent boy. Lol again. Lol It's amazing just how much pitch increase I got already, even with pushing my voice box down. My voice sounds where I was with my trained voice at this point, except I don't really have to think about tightens up my voice muscles. It's so bizarre to untrained my voice! I found my muscles remembering to clench whenever I was around people, like over the weekend at Pride. I had to consciously relax and push my voice box down a little bit when speaking to them, or my voice was breaking all over the place. Lol It's weird having to go against the muscle memory that I developed over the past four years! I still have to pause some times before speaking to completely push those muscles open and let my larynx drop.
Incision is healing nicely. It's swollen and tender on the right side still. Left side is going down. It really looks like the right side of my neck got it worse than my left, since the bruising is clustered over there. I keep drinking Nature, and Bolthouse Farms, and basically any health food juice/shake/protein drink i can buy whenever the opportunity comes up. Lol I think that's helped to a degree with healing. I don't have empirical evidence on that, except that I don't recall healing this quickly or with as little pain from my other surgeries.
I'll admit it seemed like I spoke a little bit too much yesterday. I could feel a bit of a sharp pain within my throat... It was very minor, but focused inside my larynx. I eased way back on the talking then. Other than that bit of pain, all I have is the general discomfort with the swelling at this point. I stopped taking Ibuprofen a couple days ago.
I'm not quite ready to post a sound clip, as I want to read or say a decent amount, but I also don't want to strain my voice(see above). It seems I can handle one or two sentences at a time, but if I speak beyond that, I hoarse up and run the risk of straining my cords. If I keep healing at this rate, I might be able to post a clip this weekend.
So that's my update/ramble for now! :) Oh! And since there's still a little bit of a scab left on that swollen right side, I've been sticking to coconut oil and holding off on the silicone scar strip for now.
I think this is interestinge - I have to try that to consciously watch out that I dont push my voice box up too high. I think I tend to do that after 17(!) years of developing a muscle memory to make my voice more feminine pre-VFS. Maybe thats in part why Dr Kim uses Botox and muscle relaxation pills - to get rid of that muscle memory ;)
Interesting to note that you actually have to lower the larynx to achieve the correct pitch/tone now. That will take some getting used to after practicing keeping it up so much. ugh!
Keep the updates coming! Glad you are faring well. ;)
Botox would have been nice... I forgot to ask Haben why he forgoes that step when Kim and Spiegel use it(when indicated).
Oh, also forgot to mention, the feeling in my tongue is coming back! The tip and a little bit back from it have full sensation. It's only kinda the middle right now that still feels numb, however, it even feels more sensate then I recall yesterday! XD
I'm very hoarse today. Trying to rest my voice. Hard when I have a few meetings here at work and an eleven year old daughter at home!
Anybody else get the feeling like a hair was stuck in your throat?
Quote from: Cadence Jean on June 28, 2015, 07:28:00 PM
Anybody else get the feeling like a hair was stuck in your throat?
I have a wee bit of it from Dr Kim's surgery.
maybe a surgical thread? usually they should dissolve after a few weeks
Do you have any idea why you ended up with a triple. I have scheduled my surgery and with my hight he wants to target 190 hz. My mouth voice bottom is 130hz meaning only a 60hz push that can be handled with a simple surgery. Your mouth voice sounds a bit better than mine so it sounds like he wanted to push you voice higher than mine. Because my Adams apples was already shaved he didn't want to go there unless he had to.
I wanted the triple, to get rid of my adam's apple and also to block my low end. Which could drop pretty low before.
Quote from: Cadence Jean on June 28, 2015, 07:28:00 PM
Anybody else get the feeling like a hair was stuck in your throat?
It's the dissolveable suture I'm sure. I had that sensation for a few days when it was dissolving.
Cool, that makes me feel a bit better. I remember a dissolvable suture poking out from my BA incision for a couple weeks or more. Probably the same deal here. I can feel it a hit now, but not nearly as much when it must have first "sprung".
How did y'all take care of your throats? Any special drinks, concoctions, etc? In the past few days, I've taken to drinking a blended tea that has a substantial amount of slippery elm in it. I'm putting raw honey and ground ginger into it. I'm also taking the honey by itself at time. I'm having a couple honey and propolis based lozenges a day. I haven't noticed much difference, but it's only been a couple days and I like the stuff anyway. :)
I avoided ginger at first because I felt it was too spicy. I bought honey with gelee royale though and licked on it and mixed a herbal tea with salvia and thyme and some other things that are also good for colds. I drank a lot of the Aloe drinks they sold here at Asia stores - preferrable organic and fructose-syrup free ;) . If it was really sore from overuse, ice cream also helped.
Cadence, I had my surgery several weeks before you and I've had the toughest recovery I'm aware of due to the fact that I'm an extreme sweller! I'm now only starting to regain my voice 7 weeks post-op! Oh BTW, since you mentioned earlier, Dr. Haben also told me that he sutured up my vocal chords by 50%! When he saw my eyeballs popping out of their sockets in shock, he said "Well, it's more like 40%." I hope he knew what he was doing. LOL... Here's a link to my thread.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,190269.new.html#new
Thanks for sharing your experience, Luna! I posted a full reply in your thread. :)
I think I'll wait until Wednesday to post a sound clip. That will be my four week mark. I've actually not recorded voice a D played it back to myself yet. I've been told it sounds pretty good, underneath the whole "sounds like you have a bad cold" hoarseness. :)
Alright, without further ado, here's my voice as of today, something like seven weeks after surgery:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1GCdp9YxdDc (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1GCdp9YxdDc)
As the weeks go by, I'm happier and happier with the results. VFS was definitely worth the monetary and emotional price!!
For any easier side by side comparison, here are my befores:
The (in)famous Rainbow Passage in my daily speaking voice: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1sSyKAXjFcc
The passage in my "relaxed" voice that I no longer use(except to freak people out! lol): http://vocaroo.com/i/s1ShlOrkxg8V
I am astounded at the difference between my before relaxed and my present voice. Haben is a miracle worker!!!!
Quote from: Cadence Jean on July 31, 2015, 05:04:48 PM
Alright, without further ado, here's my voice as of today, something like seven weeks after surgery:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1GCdp9YxdDc (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1GCdp9YxdDc)
As the weeks go by, I'm happier and happier with the results. VFS was definitely worth the monetary and emotional price!!
For any easier side by side comparison, here are my befores:
The (in)famous Rainbow Passage in my daily speaking voice: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1sSyKAXjFcc
The passage in my "relaxed" voice that I no longer use(except to freak people out! lol): http://vocaroo.com/i/s1ShlOrkxg8V
I am astounded at the difference between my before relaxed and my present voice. Haben is a miracle worker!!!!
Hi Cadence, thanks for posting those recordings! I was set on Yeson before, but I'm seriously considering Dr. Haben as an alternative, since I can get a tracheal shave at the same time, which Yeson doesn't do.
Right now your voice sounds firmly on the female side of androgynous to me. Congratulations!
May I ask why you decided to have the CTA procedure too? I'm on the fence about this due to its invasive nature, but I don't want to regret not getting it either.
Hi there, Runaway! I went with the CTA because I figured, why not? lol I desperately needed the trach shave anyway, and others on here who had the CTA with Haben sounded great to me. I don't sing(except in my car or during Rockband gaming) or play any instruments. From what I've read, the CTA isn't so much to raise the pitch, as to kill the ability to drop the voice down into chest voice. My understanding is that the sutures and cartilage kinda stretch over the recovery period anyway, so you lose some of the pitch increase. But you still retain that inability to drop it low. I would have an issue with my voice dropping low when I was tired or, haha, drunk! lol So, I figured I should probably go with the full monty cuz he was going in there for the trach shave anyway and it was being thrown in anyway. Haben did mention that the CTA procedure forces the larynx cartilage forward more, which makes the adam's apple jut out more. He said he would shave as much as he could so that this wouldn't be a problem. Immediately after surgery, my neck was flat! And even after much of the swelling has gone down and the skin has tightened up around my larynx, it's still damn flat. XD
I'm not sure how much the CTA contributes to this, but when I now try to "talk from my chest", I only succeed in sounding like a woman trying to imitate a man. lol VFS is frickin awesome. :) I was discouraged at times during the healing process and with some of the difficulty that I had finding my new voice, but now that somet ime has passed and I've experimented and gotten to a comfortable speaking arrangement with between my diaphragm, larynx, and head, I'm so very happy with my results. :)
Thanks Cadence! It sure doesn't hurt that Dr. Haben's triple procedure with accommodation costs about as much as Yeson charges just for the glottoplasty.
Apart from slight brow bossing and broad shoulders (quickly shrinking from HRT-induced muscle loss), my voice and adam's apple has been my only real problem with passing. In fact, I never used my trained voice in public, because it's just so inconsistent, strained, and monotone because it's at the edge of my vocal range.
My voice was low and husky before puberty, and it only became more so when it broke. I think HRT has thinned out my vocal folds slightly so my comfortable pitch is now around 120-130hz, as opposed to the 90-110hz it used to be in the past.
This will be my first surgical procedure and my first time under general anesthetic. I'm apprehensive, excited and nervous all at once, so I really, really appreciate you sharing your experience and results. :)
Certainly! I think it's important that us in the trans community share our experiences and offer support to each other. I know this won't stop you from worrying, but I have to say: you will be in great hands! Everyone was great. The drivers, the front desk Staffan Haben's office and at the surgery center) , the nurses, the anesthesiologist. They were all amazing and made an effort to allay my concerns and quell my fears. I felt confident and positive going into surgery!
Quote from: Cadence Jean on August 01, 2015, 09:52:57 AM
Certainly! I think it's important that us in the trans community share our experiences and offer support to each other. I know this won't stop you from worrying, but I have to say: you will be in great hands! Everyone was great. The drivers, the front desk Staffan Haben's office and at the surgery center) , the nurses, the anesthesiologist. They were all amazing and made an effort to allay my concerns and quell my fears. I felt confident and positive going into surgery!
Add to that the hotel. I have never stayed in a full service hotel before and when I had a transportation need, the front desk took care of it. When I walked out for a taxi or the ride to the hospital the front desk pointed me to the person who would give me the ride. Note that I would go to the lobby almost half an hour early for my ride and they were there already waiting. I was never late for anything and always early.
Yes, the Marriott was great as well!
Dena & Cadence, thanks to the both of you, I think I'm set on Dr. Haben! I'll be sure to post my experience and recordings too when my time comes. :)
My mother was going to accompany me in Seoul since I was worried about dealing with recovery alone, but that shouldn't be a problem with the hotel service at the Marriott, so I think I can go to Rochester alone.
Flying from Vancouver to Rochester is also about half the price, and less than half the time as compared to Seoul, so I can't think of any good reason to go with Yeson over Dr. Haben.
The night of the surgery you spend in the hospital. They will deliver you from the hospital to Dr Haben's office for your after surgery visit with him. Because you are out of country, you might need to remain there a week in which case, you would return to the hotel.
After my last visit, a cab delivered me to the airport where I caught a 1:30 flight to Florida. I had a 3 hour lay over and then took a plane to phoenix arriving a little after 9pm. The trip home took about another hour putting me in bed at 10pm. This sounds good except that I went through 3 time zones making bed time 1pm by my internal clock. With all this, I slept in late and the next day, visited with my mom at work which is 3 miles from my home. I continued to rest for several days after that as the drugs left me a little dizzy for a few days but I cared for myself in that time. As surgeries go, this one is pretty minor. If you have to remain in the hotel, you can eat in the hotel like I did or there is other food near by. If you feel like it you could even visit the falls but I didn't have time to do that with 4 days for the entire trip.
Because I knew I would be caring for my self, I hit the store before I left and made sure I had some soft food on hand. I figured it would give me less trouble with coughing. What I didn't figure on was I gave Dr Haben a bunch of trouble and as the result, he was pretty hard on my mouth. No tooth damage but the soft food was welcome on a sore mouth. At almost 2.5 weeks, I am pretty much back on a regular diet but there are still a few spots in my mouth I am careful with.
Candace, you sound pretty good! I believe that the pitch will go up more so you have more to look forward to. :)
Candace, I'm so happy that you're pleased with your VFS results! Congrats! :D What's remarkable is that you still sound like yourself yet very different in the same time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you sound natural.
As for myself, I'm healing very slowly. I'm talking now though my voice remains extremely weak and unstable. There's little range and the volume is also very low. After being out of commission for so long, I feel like a mute person learning to speak for the first time.
Quote from: Dena on August 01, 2015, 01:13:17 PM
What I didn't figure on was I gave Dr Haben a bunch of trouble and as the result, he was pretty hard on my mouth. No tooth damage but the soft food was welcome on a sore mouth. At almost 2.5 weeks, I am pretty much back on a regular diet but there are still a few spots in my mouth I am careful with.
Yes, the teeth situation is something to note. I was very apprehensive about it to begin with but Dr. Haben reassured me that I didn't need mouth guards for both top and bottom teeth, just the top would suffice. So I wore a mouth guard on the top to surgery. Upon waking up, I immediately noticed that three of my bottom teeth had become so loose that I was sure they'd fall out. Thankfully they didn't but it took over a month for them to return to normal. If I knew this before hand, I would have guarded my entire mouth just to be safe!
Quote from: Lunarain on August 03, 2015, 06:04:05 PM
Candace, I'm so happy that you're pleased with your VFS results! Congrats! :D What's remarkable is that you still sound like yourself yet very different in the same time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you sound natural.
As for myself, I'm healing very slowly. I'm talking now though my voice remains extremely weak and unstable. There's little range and the volume is also very low. After being out of commission for so long, I feel like a mute person learning to speak for the first time.
I think I had a bit more swelling that normal because it toke around 10 days before I could get the cords to vibrate. The only noise I could hear was the air forcing past the cords. At 2.5 weeks, yesterdays was the first day I could hold and extended conversation and that was at whisper level. The voice is pretty monotone because shift frequencies make it unstable.
Thanks to your warning, when my voice didn't work at first, I didn't panic. I figured it was going to take longer to get it working but I had hoped I would have something a bit more useful by now.
After reading your replies, Luna and Dena, I guess I didn't have too bad of a time with recovery. I remember a couple days after surgery, I managed to sort of... Exhale talk? Lol I didn't move my vocal cords, I really couldn't, but I breathed out and moved the structures in and around my mouth. It was indicate to my traveling companion that we missed our exit. Anyway, I imagine that's sort of how y'all sound...like your cords aren't responding, sort of like... Temporary paralysis, maybe cuz the swelling has pinched the nerves that control them for now. I'm sure as the swelling come down, function will return.
I'm not sure if it's this, but I was drinking a LOT of all natural fruit drinks for the first week or two. Some were by boathouse farms, and some were by... I think k it's called Nature, or something like that. I drank a lot of their green tea or green goddess ones, with some of the others thrown in to break up the monotony. I also drank a lot of "Traditional Medicinals Throat Coat" tea(found on amazon) for like three to four weeks after that. All this may or may not have helped me recover my voice faster. :) ymmv
It feels like the cords are so swollen that they don't have the flexibility to vibrate. Now they can vibrate a little but only of you hit the right pitch and try it early in the morning. As I tend to swell more that normal as a reaction to surgery, I expected it. Normally it is a little sore by when you try to talk, if feels like you have a really bad head cold. It's getting better by the day but I am not expecting much for a month or so.
Hi Cadence Jean. I am interested in something that came up in another thread. The question is, what happens to your voice break, or ther transition from chest to head voice with CTA - is it still there, does it shift or change - do you only have chest voice or only head voice now - or do you have a mixed voice that has chest- and headvoice qualities but does not have a transition zone or passagio between two different registers anymore? CTA should in theory eliminate the voice break.
Also, do you know if the CTA does make your vocal range smaller a lot? One of the two pitch controlling muscles is disabled by it, so I figure, the vocal range has to be smaller and since the break from head to chest voice comes from the interplay between these two muscles, it should also not happen anymore when one of them is disabled by CTA.
I am very curious about this.
Thanks, Greetings
At this point, I have trouble differentiating. It all seems smooth, but it pretty much did before. I can tell you that dropping as low as I can has a different quality to it now. It has less resonance. It sounds more like a woman imitating a man, but not quite. It's hard to out my finger on. :) My new falsetto is higher and... I guess more easily controlled. It's like the break between the two has smoothed a lot. I will say tho, that my cords are still healing. My falsetto cracks and it's more difficult to get breath out when I use it - it makes my cords sore to use it too. I hope it comes back because I need it to whoop at concerts. Lol
I am not sure what you mean by "falsetto" - so is that a different register - with a different sound to it than your normal voice? Or do you just refer to it as your upper pitch area?
I think part of what you describe probably is more from the glottoplasty than the CTA - I had Glottoplasty only and I have the sam thing that going low in voice sounds like a woman doing a low voice and trying to do a male voice sounds also similar to other women trying to do male voices.
However for me it is interstingly in a way reverse in that I can get crystal clear sounds out in the mid to upper pitch range, when I use my head voice (I can feel the difference where it breaks from chest to head voice at the C4) - but if I go lower in my chest voice (about C3 to A3), I loose a lot of air, cannot hold a note as long and the quality is a bit more rough - then if I go in the very upper area, I get constrictions - so the notes will be more breathy and have less volume and sound sort of squeezed. But this is talking about the very upper range above the C5.
I definitely have a rough spot though at the C4 where the voice break is and am interested in how the voice break feels like - or if it still exists with CTA.
I guess its too early to ask for an assessment of vocal range (lowest to highest possible note)?
Yep, too early. Hehe Still healing. I am awful when it comes to pitches, octaves, notes, whatever. Lol I can tell what's higher and what's lower, but as far as actual notes and breaking into different octaves, etc, I'm clueless. What I consider falsetto is the very top of my range. The sound I get when I restrict my larynx to what I assume is a miniscule hole or slit, and then force air through it. It's the high pitched sound you hear women make at concerts when they're screaming to the band. I dunno how else to explain it. I've never really felt like I had breaks between "head" and "chest". I've only noted a rough patch going into falsetto. Sorry I can't be more analytical about this stuff. It's not my area of study. :/
Quote from: Cadence Jean on August 17, 2015, 05:06:27 PM
Yep, too early. Hehe Still healing. I am awful when it comes to pitches, octaves, notes, whatever. Lol I can tell what's higher and what's lower, but as far as actual notes and breaking into different octaves, etc, I'm clueless. What I consider falsetto is the very top of my range. The sound I get when I restrict my larynx to what I assume is a miniscule hole or slit, and then force air through it. It's the high pitched sound you hear women make at concerts when they're screaming to the band. I dunno how else to explain it. I've never really felt like I had breaks between "head" and "chest". I've only noted a rough patch going into falsetto. Sorry I can't be more analytical about this stuff. It's not my area of study. :/
Your explanation says a lot and seems to be in line with what I suspect about the CTA creating a sort of permanent mixed voice as your normal speaking voice. How are you feeling this far into recovery? Any new findings? Thanks as always!
Not really anything new. I've noticed that I still have several "versions" of my voice. Like, when I'm stressed in a meeting, my voice gets... I dunno, strained sounding? When I'm happy, it's higher pitched... When I'm relaxed, it takes on a different quality too. In any case, it seems like if I talk for extended periods my cords get scratchy and it sounds like I have mucus buildup on them. Not nearly as bad as the surgical laryngitis. I think it's my body sending mucus to them to ease them as I overuse them. According to my SLP, the body produces copious amount of mucus to coat the cords in after trauma. It's trying to develop a barrier to protect the cords as they heal. So, that's theory on why my cords gets kinda hoarse after using them for a while. The only other couple things of note would be, I notice some times when I swallow, I feel a little bit of... Kinda pain, and this feeling like there some gravel in there? On the left side. Like, gravelly tissue? Almost like the tissues not flat, and kinda rubbing against another piece of something in there. Lol Maybe that's what granulation feels like? It's not very painful, a little uncomfortable and it goes away quickly. The other thing is that the scar is looking better and better. It's flat, except for the little bump that I mentioned before. That bump hasn't gone away yet. It looks a bit smaller, but by no means gone. It's a pretty small bump, all things considered. Maybe five percent of the whole incision, and probably nobody notices but me. Lol It's raised a bit and flat white colored. I've been massaged it and it feels like it breaks up a little and flattens, but of course it's back again after only a little while. Everything else is great! I haven't been misgendered on the phone, or through a drive thru, or in person since my surgery. XD and there's a still a bit of water retention where the exterior swelling was, but it's rapidly diminishing. And even with the swelling gone, my adam's apple is GONE. I can feel a kind of bumpy, slightly raised area under the skin on the outside of my larynx, but it' s COMPLETELY not visible through my skin! XD Some times I still cup my hand around the front of my neck, and grin from ear to ear. Lol I am overjoyed that ->-bleeped-<-ing adam's apple is gone!!
Quote from: Cadence Jean on August 18, 2015, 08:04:36 PM
Not really anything new. I've noticed that I still have several "versions" of my voice. Like, when I'm stressed in a meeting, my voice gets... I dunno, strained sounding? When I'm happy, it's higher pitched... When I'm relaxed, it takes on a different quality too. In any case, it seems like if I talk for extended periods my cords get scratchy and it sounds like I have mucus buildup on them. Not nearly as bad as the surgical laryngitis. I think it's my body sending mucus to them to ease them as I overuse them. According to my SLP, the body produces copious amount of mucus to coat the cords in after trauma. It's trying to develop a barrier to protect the cords as they heal. So, that's theory on why my cords gets kinda hoarse after using them for a while. The only other couple things of note would be, I notice some times when I swallow, I feel a little bit of... Kinda pain, and this feeling like there some gravel in there? On the left side. Like, gravelly tissue? Almost like the tissues not flat, and kinda rubbing against another piece of something in there. Lol Maybe that's what granulation feels like? It's not very painful, a little uncomfortable and it goes away quickly. The other thing is that the scar is looking better and better. It's flat, except for the little bump that I mentioned before. That bump hasn't gone away yet. It looks a bit smaller, but by no means gone. It's a pretty small bump, all things considered. Maybe five percent of the whole incision, and probably nobody notices but me. Lol It's raised a bit and flat white colored. I've been massaged it and it feels like it breaks up a little and flattens, but of course it's back again after only a little while. Everything else is great! I haven't been misgendered on the phone, or through a drive thru, or in person since my surgery. XD and there's a still a bit of water retention where the exterior swelling was, but it's rapidly diminishing. And even with the swelling gone, my adam's apple is GONE. I can feel a kind of bumpy, slightly raised area under the skin on the outside of my larynx, but it' s COMPLETELY not visible through my skin! XD Some times I still cup my hand around the front of my neck, and grin from ear to ear. Lol I am overjoyed that ->-bleeped-<-ing adam's apple is gone!!
That's wonderful! Love the story about cupping your neck and grinning :)
I just booked with Haben for September! :)
Congrats! I hope all goes well for you!
Quote from: Cadence Jean on August 18, 2015, 08:04:36 PMI notice some times when I swallow, I feel a little bit of... Kinda pain, and this feeling like there some gravel in there? On the left side. Like, gravelly tissue? Almost like the tissues not flat, and kinda rubbing against another piece of something in there.
Same here! I believe that we all frequently swallow our own saliva without being consciously aware of it. But now not only am I aware of it, I put a some effort into it. In general, I'm now acutely conscious of the existence of my throat! They say that you don't feel your body parts until you get sick. I hope this will come to pass once my throat has completely healed.
Quote from: runaway on August 20, 2015, 01:46:25 PM
I just booked with Haben for September! :)
Congrats! I'll be there in October. Did you decide which procedure or combination of procedures to have done?
Hi kwala, I definitely want the glottoplasty and tracheal shave, but I'm on the fence about the CTA procedure. Dr Haben recommended the triple, but I'm just wary about permanent sutures that could possibly come loose for some reason.
What about yourself?
Quote from: runaway on August 25, 2015, 09:12:27 PM
Hi kwala, I definitely want the glottoplasty and tracheal shave, but I'm on the fence about the CTA procedure. Dr Haben recommended the triple, but I'm just wary about permanent sutures that could possibly come loose for some reason.
What about yourself?
I didn't want the triple and Dr Haben agreed because I already she the trach shave and he feared my larynx might be compromised ( it wasn't). In addition I wanted the range in my voice and he felt I could get the pitch I needed with out the triple.
I wouldn't worry about the sutures failing but the more important question is why he feels a triple would be a better option for you. I would think it comes down to one of two reason. 1. Your voice is so low it can't reach the feminine range or 2. The pitch range he wants to target for you needs the additional push a triple would provide. It may come down to a question of living with a lower voice to avoid the triple.
Dr Haben seems to be pretty good at determining the surgery outcome though he had a bit of a problem with me because of my cord issues. As it is, he exceeded the pre surgical promise and it currently looks like I might be at the upper end of the post surgical range. Make sure you understand why he favors the triple for you and what the results will be without it.
Quote from: runaway on August 25, 2015, 09:12:27 PM
Hi kwala, I definitely want the glottoplasty and tracheal shave, but I'm on the fence about the CTA procedure. Dr Haben recommended the triple, but I'm just wary about permanent sutures that could possibly come loose for some reason.
What about yourself?
I'm going with just the glottoplasty alone. I'm a clarinetist and the thought of someone cutting my neck open is a little too scary so I'm going with the least invasive option. The girls who have had the triple and shared results here all sound FANTASTIC, so it's tempting but I'm already taking a small risk considering my career and I'm not willing to do anything too drastic. I'd love to be rid of my adam's apple, but again I think my career has to come first. Maybe someday, but for now I'll settle for an improved voice. :)
You got it right, Dena. I have a low speaking frequency (120hz or C3), in addition to mild dysphonia and glottal fry due to temper tantrums and screaming fits as a toddler, and military service later on.
I think I'm nervous because I've never had any major surgery before, and I have an aversion to having any foreign objects in my body. I have no piercings or tattoos and needles make me uncomfortable, so this is a huge step for me.
My biggest fear is being stuck with a weird Minnie Mouse-type voice, or becoming mute due to a mishap.
I understand what you mean, Kwala. Prior to transitioning, my voice helped me hide because it was deep, husky, "sexy" even, according to friends. Over the last week or so, I've had a few panic attacks due to anxiety that I'm making a big mistake that I might regret later, or that I should have gone to Yeson, or that Dr Haben will make his biggest mistake when it's my turn to go under the knife.
Then I come here and read this thread, and feel better immediately. So thanks again, Cadence and Dena. :)
Certainly! I feel good knowing I'm helping you in my own small way get through your anxiety. :) Haben is a pro. I bet you'd have more risk of throat mutilation by driving down the road. Lol
Quote from: runaway on August 26, 2015, 03:33:59 AM
You got it right, Dena. I have a low speaking frequency (120hz or C3), in addition to mild dysphonia and glottal fry due to temper tantrums and screaming fits as a toddler, and military service later on.
I think I'm nervous because I've never had any major surgery before, and I have an aversion to having any foreign objects in my body. I have no piercings or tattoos and needles make me uncomfortable, so this is a huge step for me.
My biggest fear is being stuck with a weird Minnie Mouse-type voice, or becoming mute due to a mishap.I
I am with you on tattoos and piercings as I don't even have pierced ears. This only visible surgical scar is on my neck as the result of the trach shave. That's not a bad track record for 7 surgeries and I hated every one of them.
As for the Minnie Mouse voice, the triple is only limited to about 80 Hz meaning that with a starting pitch of 120 Hz you will not even be able to reach middle C which is the "average" female pitch. The voice will sound feminine but not high feminine. Now Dr Haben has unlocked far more range in my voice than I expected and I suspect I could make a Minnie Mouse sound with an effort but that's not where the normal speaking voice is. Like you I will end up somewhere around 190 and 220 Hz as long as I pay attention to my speaking voice.
Glottal Fry might have caused damage to your cords and if so, that is something Dr Haben will clean up if possible. It might earn you a month without speaking if he can repair the damage. Fry should be pretty easy to avoid with speech therapy and I suspect you haven't had any. My chest voice would have been 100 hz or less but my mouth voice was a bit over 130 Hz making it possible for me to avoid the triple. If you had therapy, I would have expected your voice to move in the range of 150 to 160 hz with the mouth voice eliminating the need for the triple.
This is why I am a big fan of therapy before surgery because the surgery only provides pitch and except for IKate so far, therapy is needed to understand the voice and to make it shine. By knowing what your voice is able to do before hand, Dr Haben's words will mean much more. Once I understood how my options were far more limited than the average patient I had to adjust what I expected out of the surgery to the new reality and make a new decision in seconds. I might not have been able to do that had I not understood my voice and my options as well as I did.
11.5-ish week update:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s09alUIobfzp (http://vocaroo.com/i/s09alUIobfzp)
This is after about six weeks or so of voice therapy too. Still healing, and still loving the results. :)
For comparison,
Relaxed before: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1ShlOrkxg8V (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1ShlOrkxg8V)
Trained before: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1sSyKAXjFcc (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1sSyKAXjFcc)
I think my voice sounds less forced and more natural now. :)
Also!
Here's an example of the deepest I can get my voice now: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0NCEYOjNrCs (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0NCEYOjNrCs) (compare to relaxed voice above and it's still a higher pitch!)
Here's the "highest" that I can get my voice - except it has lots of cracking and straining and makes my cords sore >:( http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mOCyG1qNfd (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mOCyG1qNfd)
Has the zeitgeist for vfs passed or is my after recording bad enough to be politely not comment on? Lol
I'll mention today that I sneezed up a piece of vocal cord or something. Lol It came up onto the tissue with a small smattering of blood. It was small, like the size of a small pearl or raw tapioca kernel. It was slimy, but it didn't give much when I pressed it. It was almost perfectly round.
Anyway, I called Haben's office, his front desk girl spoke with him, and they called it a "scab". I had just coughed up a "scab". It's one weird looking scab...seems more like scar tissue or granulated tissue that my body eventually expelled. She said it's nothing to worry about unless I say that coughing up a bunch of blood. I have much less of a hitch in my throat when I swallow now. This must have been the culprit that my larynx or whatever was running over or dragging around inside my neck!
If anybody is really interested in pictures, I can post them. :)
I just listened to all your available recordings, and all I can say is what I always seem to say in these threads that your voice sounds great and I can hear it improve by every recording you make. Seeing all these great results I would do this surgery without hesitation if I had the money but until then I'll have to get the most out of my voice with training.
I was busy when you posted it and I needed time to analyze it. I don't have perfect pitch but it sound like you are around 180-190Hz but you may still be having issues getting inflection in the voice. It might be the result of trying to think of something to say instead of knowing what you are going to say. On the other had, Dr Haben said the triple takes longer to gain control of and you may still be bit early for the voice to really shine. It sound like you are in the female range and more work on the voice should bring it where you want it.
I'm happy with it as is. :) I like a distinctly androgynous voice, than necessarily a very feminine voice. I can sound like a valley girl with the inflection, but then I feel ridiculous. Lol I will be having ffs soon. It will be interesting to see what that does to the resonance - my frontal sinus and my nose will both be made smaller.
As is, I have yet to be misgendered, even during the hoarseness phase. XD
Hi Cadence, sorry I haven't been on here much lately. School started, so I've been busy settling in, and also preparing for my upcoming trip to Rochester. The nurse from the hospital just called me today!
Your new relaxed voice sounds great for the amount of time you've had to heal, and I'm sure it will only improve as time goes on especially now that you coughed up the offending tissue. :)
I was actually just listening to your recordings yesterday morning while preparing to leave home, and as mentioned in one of my earlier posts I read this thread every time I feel a panic attack coming up.
Thanks again for sharing your results, and please keep doing so. I'll be sure to do the same in the coming weeks and months!
I'm all done! Report to follow after some much needed sleep. :)
Awesome! Glad to see that you're up and about! I can't wait to hear your story. :)
Get all the sleep you want, the report can wait . I couldn't sleep for more than a few hours until I was back in my own bed.
I slept until I had a headache from sleeping too much, so I got up and typed out my report. :D
Link: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,196156.new.html
Latest, from this morning:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1wReGJz6xXy (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1wReGJz6xXy)
I'm pretty happy. :) Haben is working on analyzing the pitch gain now. At first blush, he told me that I sound amazing. :icon_redface: Part of me wants to believe him and part of me wants to think that he's just saying that because I'm his patient. lol I guess I must be around thirteen and a half weeks out of surgery now. My voice has really improved over the past couple weeks, I think. I hope it continues to improve over the next month or so as it settles into the new normal. :)
I still feel some hitching in my throat at times when I swallow. It's definitely on the left side. But it doesn't really hurt. It probably has something to do with that blob of tissue that I coughed up last week. Now that my body has expelled it, hopefully it will heal over whereever it came from, and my swallowing will stop hitching and my voice will get a little extra oomph. :)
Since Dena has suggested that I had more prosody to my voice, I should try recording one with the sing song valley girl thing. I think my issue is more resonance than anything else. I'm kinda too lazy to do anything about it. lol
So, here's me trying to remove resonance: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0bx4qNYFMTB (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0bx4qNYFMTB)
Do y'all think this version of my voice sounds lighter and more feminine than the post up above?
UPDATE: And here's a recording after practicing holding my larynx with the "no resonance" method. I'm thinking it sounds boss. :) There are some things I need to work on with it - but for just realizing how I need to hold the muscle above my larynx to kill the resonance and increase pitch, I think it sounds pretty good. I'll have to run this method by my speech therapist in a couple weeks when I see her!
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1msgSCB1kJT (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1msgSCB1kJT)
Quote from: Cadence Jean on September 19, 2015, 02:42:19 PM
At first blush, he told me that I sound amazing. :icon_redface: Part of me wants to believe him and part of me wants to think that he's just saying that because I'm his patient. lol
Cadence, I bet he says that to all his girls! ;D But seriously, you sound marvelous and I'm a little jealous! Congrats and keep up the good work!
Thanks, Luna! Do you like best the first or second version from my last post?
You don't need to fake a speech pattern because you already have one. You just need to let the excitement and the emphasis to show in your voice a bit more. When you want a word to stand out more, normally volume goes up but so should pitch. It may not be all your fault at this point because the triple makes it harder to use the new voice at first and the triple isn't good for singing because it restricts the voice range. I knew I would still need a trained voice after surgery and the triple wouldn't help me there so I went with VFS for the lower cost and increased range. It was supposed to allow for a faster recovery as well but so far, I still am dealing with recovery. More on my thread latter.
Now the evaluation. All three voices will sound like great feminine voices if you brighten them up a bit. Pick the one you are comfortable working with and use it. In my case, the voice I want is at the sweet spot. The point where the voice is the strongest and just a little above where the voice wants to naturally fall. To push it up that little bit means paying attention to my voice and not getting sloppy. It isn't a strain to do so, it just I can't over relax when I speak.
The truth is I was listing to my niece two days ago as she happily talked about how she lost another job and her speech pattern, and pitch wasn't that much different than yours. What I am asking will give you a better voice than that of many CIS women. I just figure when you pay all that money for a voice, why not get the best if all it requires is a little attention to detail.
Don't worry about my niece as she always seems to land on her feet and she likes the time away from work. She won't starve or become homeless but she might become more uncomfortable in life if we can make it so. :eusa_wall:
Shoot, I had a long reply and managed to kill it. I keep doing that on here! So, to be concise, I think my pattern reflects my inner turmoil and ambivalence and fear and tension and malcontentness very well, lol I get your analogy with your niece's voice. What she's feeling is probably what I typically feel. It's crazy how much tension in he musculoskeletal system up top affects one's voice. My voice is much lighter when I've been relaxed by my speech therapist performing reflex work on me. I think that "lightness" that I attain in my voice(and my being as well) is the phenomenon that you're describing as "brighten". Maybe my next best step for my voice is simply learning how to relax and calm my inner turmoil. :)
PS thank you for your opinion and kind words. I hope the best for your niece!
Hey Cadence, you sound INCREDIBLE! I'm really excited about my results now, and I can't wait for the next few months to go by.
In your first recording, you sound like a woman who has just woken up. My sister talks like that in the morning, and I notice girls tend to sound that way when talking to other women they are close to (friends, family members, etc).
Your second and third recording sound "brighter" and more cheery, and is what I imagine to be a "public" voice for most women when speaking to strangers, polite company, etc.
So to sum it up, you sound slightly different, but unquestionably female in all three recordings. :) Congratulations!
Quote from: runaway on September 20, 2015, 06:22:39 PM
In your first recording, you sound like a woman who has just woken up. My sister talks like that in the morning, and I notice girls tend to sound that way when talking to other women they are close to (friends, family members, etc).
Hey you know I notice that too. When I talk to my wife, for example, my voice is lower. When I talk to my kids it gets a bit higher. When I talk to guys it gets to its highest. In the morning my voice is a bit croaky as well.
Thanks, Runaway! My speech therapist has said that talking to somebody one is familiar and comfortable with will cause one's voice to drop subconsciously. I don't recall the reasoning though. And also speaking to a crowd to strangers, one's voice gets higher and breathier. Typically. So, the behavior that you have noted correlates to what she has been taught as well. :)
iKate, spot on! I always felt the trained voice only approximated an overly-formal elevator voice that sounds authentic, but it can seem phony or overly-practiced depending on the context it's used in.
The appeal of Yeson and Dr. Haben was that it would allow me to just speak freely and be myself without worrying about slipping up, which was the whole point of transition for me. Years ago, my unpassable voice was one of the reasons I dissuaded myself from transitioning, because doing so seemed realistically impossible because of my voice.
While I didn't go with Yeson, your feedback on the Yeson thread (along with Jenny, Anjaq and a few others), definitely helped me decide that a glottoplasty VFS was now viable, so thanks. :)
Cadence, ever since your procedure, has the external swelling from the tracheal shave and CTA gone down much? I know the CTA projects the thyroid outwards a little to stretch the vocal folds, but I feel like mine has become a bit more prominent than I'd like even though the tracheal notch is gone.
It's not a big deal, and I'd rather deal with that than an adam's apple, but it's giving me a bit of anxiety because my neck was quite slender before. I wish I had a tape measure to check if I'm just imagining it haha. :)
My swelling never really caused any projection. My neck was flat coming right of the surgery. Dr. Haben even commented on how impressed he was with the results. Even after the swelling has subsided, I still don't see any projection. I think over all, my larynx seems more visible, but I think that may be more that I would fixate on my adam's apple when in old at it before. If I poke around at it, I can feel a little bump, probably where it used to be. But my skin hides it just fine. I'm very happy with my results. I hope you can enjoy yours too!
Quote from: Cadence Jean on September 20, 2015, 11:35:22 AM
Thanks, Luna! Do you like best the first or second version from my last post?
All three sounded fantastic but I personally love the 3rd one where you hold your larynx when you speak. :)
Yay! Thank you for your feedback! I'm pretty stoked that I've found my new voice. :)
I couldn't have done it without y'all! Thank you! Wanna friend me on Facebook? I think I have a link in my profile...
Well I woke up today and it didn't seem to bulge out, so it might just be my head playing tricks on me. Thanks for the comforting words. :)
First less than desirable view of Haben. That's a decent track record vs the accepted rate of only 30‰ good outcomes for vfs. One out of six? One out of seven? That's pretty good odds of a good result...
Dr. Haben asked me to send a version of my new "placed" voice, as he referred to it. I don't know if he'll be running the analysis on this version or not. I figured I'd share it since I had it. This is fifteen weeks post-op.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1mwDicG4nC8 (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1mwDicG4nC8)
I see my speech therapist next week. I'll run this method by her for her opinion. :) I asked Dr. Haben if there's anything he could do to permanently simulate the contract that I'm doing between the hyoid bone and the larynx. As I suspected, he said that there was no way to currently alter that distance without adversely affecting my ability to swallow. There are a crazy amount of muscle layered and wrapped around between the larynx and the hyroid! I'm feeling good with using the placed version. My throat muscles and voice don't get nearly as strained by the end of the day as they used to.
I get hear the hum at about 190 Hz The voice sound warm and feminine and that's about where my relaxed voice falls. I had very little trouble duplicating that pitch to measure it as I could hear the beat frequencies between my voice and your which told me I had the match pretty close. It will be interesting to see what the telephone test produces in the way of results. Mine breaks up so fast that I can't give the telephone test a good try yet.
How did Dr Haben know that you were working on the new voice?
Hi Cadence!
My natural speaking voice is somewhere near 90hz and I have a prominent apple--so the CTA is probably my best bet to take care of non-passing voice and male appearance at the same time.
I really do like the results of your voice, you do sound great :)
I was wondering how you felt about your singing--have you tried it? I like to do karaoke, I'm by no means a good singer anyway, but if I were to go with Dr. Haben, I wonder what "range" is still possible and what insights you might have on singing, or the sound of your voice other than normal speech, like humming for instance.
Thanks a lot for sharing your experiences; it's very helpful!
Audree
audreelyn: you might want to look at my thread as I had much the same starting point you have. The surgery is pretty much limited to 85 Hz but you might get a little more depending on other factors. I needed a 120-130 Hz push and to get me near this voice sample a 100 Hz push. My thread is pretty cluttered up so if you want, just skip to the last post with the voice sample and read that.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,192393.0.html
Edit: the triple isn't recommended if you want to sing
Thanks I just took a look! Also, for you and Cadence, I hope you both continue to recover and get strong :) I imagine it's really difficult before it gets better. Waiting can be so tough. But you both are very inspiring, so glad to be among helpful ladies.
AAnnnddd, Cadence, the clip where you're holding your larynx is really "boss"! :) I think after you're fully healed, you'll definitely pass the phone test beyond a doubt! I just hope that I get a result as good as yours.
Cadence, you sound really feminine now. I just had the triple with Dr. Haben 4 days ago, and I hope I can have results similar to yours! Just wondering if you can post a pic of your scar? Is it healing nicely and fading a bit?
Thanks! I hope you have great results too! Haben has had a huge influx of patients this summer and fall! Will we get to hear your before and after? :)
My scar is doing great! Keep in mind that I am fair-skinned and my skin shows EVERYTHING. Including blood vessels (thank you, E lol).
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F5FBeXkh.jpg&hash=c97c1585b40a4449bbc72792c970292b4160ba13)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fgtfu0L6.jpg&hash=db7cb8e454e5f12392b3d2d0ab276d27f2dbdf54)
Thank you Cadence for the photo! One of the reasons I decided to go with Dr. Haben was because of your experience! :) That scar is much shorter than I anticipated, I thought it'd be much longer than that, what a relief!
And yes Cadence, I'll definitely post before and after sound clips. :) I'm just a bit anxious about the recovery because I coughed more than a few times already. :(
It's on a fold too, so eventually it will blend in, once the pigmentation vanishes. I've been using silicone scar treatment on it since a little bit after the stitches were removed. I've used a couple different products. A silicon scar stick and silicon gel, both from Amazon. The scar stick was most convenient, but it got weird and fell apart near the end of it. It lasted me about two months. And, of course, if it's a sunny day, I put Burts bees spf 70 sunblock on it, the the scar gel. :)
Don't worry about little coughs. Big one's, like, dry heaving, would probably be an issue. Lol Only worry about what you can control. ;) Same advice Haben gave me. FYI : I actually talked a little on the second day. It was weird. I left my cords relaxedm and simply breathed out kind hard from my stomach and formed words with my mouth. I said very little... It was when my bff missed our exit. Lol But still, it's an example of a slight bending of the rules and I turned out fine. ;)
Hi Cadence Jean:
I got your PM and do not have the posts to return so I sent to your youtube thing. Check your mail and it should show up from ach....
Anyway, the last voice clip you did was very nice. I am very happy for you an d the others that go with Dr habit. It s really nice to have a very good option here in the states.
Be safe and enjoy all life has to offer. (also check your mail...(;->)
Elaine
Cadence Jean:
Hello again. There is a link to a youtube channel beneath your pix here that dates back at least 2 years. I tried, unsuccessfully apparently, to send you a private note there responding to your questions in your PM that you sent me on 6,Sept,15. The response was rather lengthy and I didn't save a copy of it. Drat PM being linked to post count!!!
Your Facebook link doesn't connect to your page and I tried entering your name given here and didn't find a good match.
I didn't want to post some of my thoughts and experiences here for trying to be somewhat discreet and they don't pertain directly to your post. I hate clogging up a thread with, stuff...
Anyway, hope you are well. Be safe and enjoy all life has to offer.
Elaine
Oh, I did get your email, Elaine! Thank you got the info and sharing your experiences. :)
Cadence Jean:
You are welcome. I had to go back and make sure it got sent...
Be safe and email if you want
Elaine
Hi all! Just a quick update: Dr. Haben ran a voice analysis on my "placed" voice (as he refers to my trained voice). Here is his conclusion:
"I finally had the chance to do the voice analysis. Interestingly, it only went up one semi-tone! From about 175 hertz to 185 hertz (see the graph). Either way, you are on the lower end of the female range and that is why you are not misgendered. Great results! Let me know if you have any questions."
Yaaaaaay! Lower end of the female range, right where I wanted it!!! ^_^ If anyone wants to see the graph he mentions, I would be happy to post. Just let me know. :)
Cadence Jean:
I was wondering if you have a recent recordings of your voice and also pix of the CTA incision. A CTA is a definite possibility for me this time when I go back to Dr Haben in December, so much so that it is what I expect when I see him again. I am hoping to get more long term input on the satisfaction with the result, both voice wise and appearance wise with the neck incision healing.
Your voice clips sound very good and a sense of being much "more at home" and relaxed with your new instrument.
BTW, thank you so much for your comprehensive write up of your VFS experience. It's posts like these that add a very valuable reference point for others considering VFS.
Thanks again in advance and my best wishes to you.
Elaine
Yes, I certainly like this voice better than my old one(s)! It feels more me. I've always found it strange to hear myself over electronic methods, so I still think my voice sounds "odd" - but at least now it doesn't sound decidedly "dude". I wouldn't say, for myself, it sounds decidedly "lady" either. It's kinda andro to myself, which is fine by me. Others tell me it's decidedly female and I keep getting ma'am'ed on the phone and drive thru, so I've certainly achieved my goals!!! It's also much easier to "maintain"...really - there isn't any maintenance. lol I still place my voice to a degree, but it's become second nature and super easy. I have anxiety over my voice as like...an after thought now, and only once in a while. Before, it was pretty dang close to constant when I was speaking to people. So nice to have that burden lifted. I can't express it!! What a confidence booster.
Here are the most recent pics. I showed one up close, but the up close made it look more ghastly than it really is. So I included a couple from arms length so you can see the scar compared to the rest of my face/chest. I'm still putting ScarAway on it, and it seems to be reducing slowly...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FM81TFfN.jpg&hash=d9710a55f624ec8cfebf622d21bc434e34b57f7b)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FwRaMrPH.jpg&hash=9b89aed3f77f396154f1a90e0a96085784c2ddf1)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FsouVqIq.jpg&hash=88046831b0543e0b70a734655cefbfc6cb336c81)
And here's the latest for my voice:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s14HMfqqtzKg (http://vocaroo.com/i/s14HMfqqtzKg)
Cadence you sound great! And your scar is fading nicely, I would not even notice it unless I look closely at your neck. Did you initially put makeup on the scar sometimes or did you not even bother?
It is in the feminine range and you use infection often enough that it tells the ear feminine but you sometimes lose the expression in your voice and sound flat. I am not sure therapy is needed but you just need to let a little more emotion show in your voice and you will be there.
Thanks for the update Cadence. The scar is healing nicely and your voice sounds great. I think it's really genuine and I wouldn't change a thing!