would you take a look at my avatar and see if you think I'd pass without surgery and if I gained a little weight?
And if you think I need surgery, which ones ?
thanks! ^.^
Oh and does anyone know how to attach pictures??
You can post a picture by uploading to a photo sharing site and hen using the insert image option. That will put in between two brackets that have ING then your all good to go. A bigger picture would help me answer your other question better. Hugs
Mariah
From your picture, I *think* that you will "pass" as cisgender, but it's never certain from an avatar.
Whether you "pass" or not, I think you're very pretty, and don't think that you should change anything unless it's what you really want.
^that isn't meant as a compliment, just fact; I don't believe in flattering people
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the one on top is really photoshopped
the bottom one isnt
I think you pass, but I wish the photo shopping wasn't included so we could give you a more accurate answer. Hugs
Mariah
Adam's apple/trach shave comes to mind first.
Wax or thread eyebrows also.
And yes, just a small amount of weight = fat deposits on face = feminization
Wait for more recommendations until these things are done...of course, it is always your option for what to do; I'm a big fan of "do as little as possible to achieve your goals" (when it comes to surgeries).
^I disagree on your eyebrows; I think they look very nice. But you might look a bit healthier if you gained a bit of weight - if that is something that you're comfortable with or want to do.
Are you on hrt? And it so for how long?
A trach shave jumps out at me as #1 priority, but as best as I can tell from just one pic I *think* you can work with the rest, especially if you haven't even started hrt yet. I think maybe a browshave and chin reduction would be helpful, but I just can't say how critical without more pics and hrt info.
You are beautiful just the way you are!
Quote from: 1xxMiaxx1 on May 13, 2015, 10:02:53 AM
You are beautiful just the way you are!
Seconded!!
And btw, some genetic females also have "Adam's/Eve's" apples - I have one and haven't been on T yet. ^_^
Quote from: Ravenna on May 12, 2015, 07:26:51 PM
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the one on top is really photoshopped
the bottom one isnt
girl ur totally hot already. u should have no problems. you do have a visible Adam's apple but seriously so does Megan Fox so don't worry. You will be fine.
I haven't had any hrt yet :-(
I definitely agree with the trachea shave
I think my jaw wont be a prob once I gain weight and stuff
my brow bossing.. well that sucks lol
Quote from: Ravenna on May 13, 2015, 11:54:50 AM
I haven't had any hrt yet :-(
I definitely agree with the trachea shave
I think my jaw wont be a prob once I gain weight and stuff
my brow bossing.. well that sucks lol
From the front u don't look like u need bossing.... But it's hard to tell from the front
The profile is what prevents passing for most. Even post-FFS, you can often see traces of masculine structure.
Considering your front view only, I would say you're quite fortunate and appear very passable. You need a trach shave. I agree with the comment about eyebrows, though that will almost certainly also bring out any bossing. Your chin is somewhat broad, but in proportion. You have good cheekbones. Nose is well-proportioned. (something else to look at in profile, however) Big eyes are good! Your forehead is quite male: square, high (male hairline), and prominent. You hair helps this a lot. The back corners of your jaw are prominent, which I see you photoshopped out, but in your case works with your looks (as it does for many women - it's a currently fashionable facial structure).
Hi Ravenna
Very attractive, I certainly don't pick any brow bossing...
As far a Tracheal goes, there are many CIS women with prominence in that are, I wouldn't get hung up, as same for Eyebrows... I would love healthy Eyebrows, mine are bitty forcing we to keep them fine...
L Katy :-*
You need to post more quality photos, good light, white (wall) background, hair tide back... front profile, 45° angle, and side profile, (preferably from both sides). You can't really get any fair evaluation and opinion based on a photo like this, and it's photoshop.
Quote from: LeaP on May 14, 2015, 07:59:55 AM
You need a trach shave. I agree with the comment about eyebrows, though that will almost certainly also bring out any bossing. Your chin is somewhat broad, but in proportion. You have good cheekbones. Nose is well-proportioned. (something else to look at in profile, however) Big eyes are good! Your forehead is quite male: square, high (male hairline), and prominent. You hair helps this a lot.
Just a word of caution about saying anyone "needs" anything... It's problematic.
Ravenna, yes, you have a pronounced trachea but with some added weight, it will be less pronounced so, I think you could re-evaluate then - it's entirely up to what you feel comfortable with. I just met a woman who is post-transition, and clearly had an Eve's apple and was literally the single most beautiful, not just woman, but entity that I have ever seen in my life. Just adding some perspective...
Eyebrows are really tricky whether transgender or cisgender. Too thin, and you look like a Disney villain, too thick and you look like Chewbacca. With your features, I think you'll want to stay on the thicker side; if you want them thinner, I'd recommend looking at Amal Alamuddin for reference. Chin/ jaw/ hairline all look fine to me, and I think are really a matter of your preferred aesthetics. For your hairline, if it's a concern, bangs work really well, but also tend to take off a few years if they're not super long or super short - depending upon if getting carded is a problem, etc. I think your jaw actually looks *more* feminine in the non-photoshopped picture, though, admittedly, I don't stare at cisgender women's jawlines... or anyone's for that matter... XD
Quote from: Ian68 on May 14, 2015, 03:19:59 PM
Just a word of caution about saying anyone "needs" anything... It's problematic.
Ravenna, yes, you have a pronounced trachea but with some added weight, it will be less pronounced so, I think you could re-evaluate then - it's entirely up to what you feel comfortable with. I just met a woman who is post-transition, and clearly had an Eve's apple and was literally the single most beautiful, not just woman, but entity that I have ever seen in my life. Just adding some perspective...
Eyebrows are really tricky whether transgender or cisgender. Too thin, and you look like a Disney villain, too thick and you look like Chewbacca. With your features, I think you'll want to stay on the thicker side; if you want them thinner, I'd recommend looking at Amal Alamuddin for reference. Chin/ jaw/ hairline all look fine to me, and I think are really a matter of your preferred aesthetics. For your hairline, if it's a concern, bangs work really well, but also tend to take off a few years if they're not super long or super short - depending upon if getting carded is a problem, etc. I think your jaw actually looks *more* feminine in the non-photoshopped picture, though, admittedly, I don't stare at cisgender women's jawlines... or anyone's for that matter... XD
Thank you for the input :-) It's calmed me down quite a bit
I've been really worried ! :angel:
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Profile!
thanks 1xxMiaxx1 ^.^ !
Very nice, indeed. There is a clear delineation between your upper and lower face, with the latter really needing no work other than trach shave. Your upper face shows only slight bossing and a very straight, male forehead. You would probably need little other than a light rounding of the bossed area. You could improve your hairline slightly by having it lowered, but you really don't need much at all, in my opinion.
Quote from: Ravenna on May 14, 2015, 04:07:01 PM
I've been really worried ! :angel:
You shouldn't be worried at all. You should stop photoshopping yourself; you don't need it. :)
Also, not to be a jerk, and I know that she *did* ask for advice, but are we all looking at the same girl??? ??? What is all of this upper face "fixing" stuff? She's already
really pretty. :(
But then, I guess I wouldn't know about what counts as "passing." Certainly, it shouldn't be conflated with beauty, though. :'(
Quote from: mmmmm on May 14, 2015, 07:08:35 PM
Your transition between nose and forehead is typically masculine, as well as your orbital rims. These two things don't change with hormones.
Will you "pass" without any of these corrected? That depends on what "passing" means to you... as I learn here different people percieve "passing" very differently. For me it simply means being seen (by everybody) as cis-born female and nothing else, other people think of it differently. These two things give boyish aspect to your face, which is not necessarily bad, but it will also give some clues to some people. Besides fixing that issue, it would be also worth doing upper face because you would look really beautiful. Your chin and jaw aren't problematic, but a little more prominent V-shape would be a good idea (mostly for aesthetic reasons). And definitely trachea shave.
Damn I wonder how many cis girls pass by ur standards
I think you honestly don't need any surgeries on your face. You look good as you are. Passing-wise I'd say the same. I agree that gaining weight for you - a bit chub could actually work! But I'd not really even say it seem necessary to be honest.
Quote from: londonswaves on May 14, 2015, 08:10:03 PM
I think you honestly don't need any surgeries on your face. You look good as you are. Passing-wise I'd say the same. I agree that gaining weight for you - a bit chub could actually work! But I'd not really even say it seem necessary to be honest.
Im glad ! this makes me happy thank you
Quote from: Ravenna on May 14, 2015, 08:28:45 PM
Im glad ! this makes me happy thank you
No problem gurl :3c
And.. I actually think you are very lucky with what you already have.
unlike me lol
Quote from: amber roskamp on May 14, 2015, 08:08:51 PM
Damn I wonder how many cis girls pass by ur standards
Moreover, there is a huge diversity in the face shapes, forehead heights, jaw widths, and bossing among cisgender women. You may wish to compare the following: Famke Janssen, Angelina Jolie, Lana Del Ray, and Jessica Alba. Famke Janssen has a pronounced brow line, and define facial features. Angelina Jolie has a high forehead, and strong jawline. Lana Del Ray has a square-ish jaw and defined features, and then Jessica Alba is just curves and tiny features everywhere - all of them are cisgender. Then, compare several transgender women: Janet Mock, Andreja Pejic, Parinya Charoenphon, and Carmen Carrera. Janet Mock has a high forehead. Andreja Pejic has very defined features, and a strong jawline. Parinya Charoenphon has a pronounced brow line. Carmen Carrera is curves everywhere.
These are the same features, and in beautiful cisgender women, they are unnoticed or even valued, yet they are criticized as evidence for "masculinity" in transgender women. That's the biggest double standard if ever I've heard of one.
Please be careful about making these sorts of judgments, and really think about where they are coming from, and whether it's helpful or just hurtful. :(
id love to look like famke jansenn one day :-}
I also think tilda Swinton is quite beautiful
shes played both male and female roles in movies
The incredible, amazing, never-ending diversity among people doesn't change the simple fact that we are hard-wired to INSTANTLY gender people based on a large number of subtle biological characteristics. It has nothing whatsoever to do with beauty. Every one of the GGs cited would be gendered female by anyone even trying to pass as male.
Your point has some validity, but not as much as you think. Passing isn't solely based on appearance and even when it is, not solely on the face. The exercise is to reduce the male cues as much as possible so they don't add up to male in the aggregate. All it takes is something that appears a bit off, then all the other cues click into place. The same things happen to CONFIRM a GG's gender when things like the characteristics you cite may look male or androgynous.
Perhaps another sort of care in judgement is called for??
Tilda Swinton is really interesting looking. She can have a sort of ethereal beauty.
On the other hand, I always thought Angelina Jolie looked like a fish. A female fish, of course.
[edit] I forgot to add that I disagree with the weight comments. Thinner is usually better for passibility. Male bulk is a strong tell. Your current weight is what gives your face some of its female-like variation, your cheekbones more prominence, makes your lips look fuller, and your eyes bigger. It also highlights your jawline, which is excellent.
if someone tells u that u need to do all of those things to pass, don't listen. They aren't experts. The best thing you can do is transition to a point where u are happy with ur self.
Passing is somewhat over-rated. If you put too much focus on passing, it's hard to be happy. I have seen many totally beautiful trans women that don't pass. Being confident and feeling beautiful is a much better feeling then the times that u feel like you pass. And, girl, u are beautiful already so you won't have to worry bout that.
Quote from: amber roskamp on May 15, 2015, 11:54:42 AM
if someone tells u that u need to do all of those things to pass, don't listen. They aren't experts. The best thing you can do is transition to a point where u are happy with ur self.
Passing is somewhat over-rated. If you put too much focus on passing, it's hard to be happy. I have seen many totally beautiful trans women that don't pass. Being confident and feeling beautiful is a much better feeling then the times that u feel like you pass. And, girl, u are beautiful already so you won't have to worry bout that.
I am completely with Amber on this.
And no one is saying that "passing" is a bad thing, but it also isn't a "good" thing - it's just a thing. Some people "pass," and some people don't, and neither state is a guarantee of happiness or beauty.
Quote from: mmmmm on May 15, 2015, 12:36:41 PM
It's like you're trying to say that being really passable is a bad thing... ::)
I do not feel that way. And I'm sorry if something I said sounded like that. Passing is a privilege, that's all it is. It does benefit those of us that are able to do it, but It's a privilege that some of us will never have. And like money and all other privileges it doesn't ensure happiness.
Ravenna is definitely not one of those people that won't pass.She already passes from what I see. Once she starts hrt she could easily pass. Probably even go stealth if she chooses. I am just a little upset that you are telling her that she needs to do this and this and this in order to pass. This is a support site be supportive.
Quote from: amber roskamp on May 15, 2015, 02:14:11 PM
I do not feel that way. And I'm sorry if something I said sounded like that. Passing is a privilege, that's all it is. It does benefit those of us that are able to do it, but It's a privilege that some of us will never have. And like money and all other privileges it doesn't ensure happiness.
Ravenna is definitely not one of those people that won't pass.She already passes from what I see. Once she starts hrt she could easily pass. Probably even go stealth if she chooses. I am just a little upset that you are telling her that she needs to do this and this and this in order to pass. This is a support site be supportive.
I didn't by any means tell her she NEEDS to do anything in order to pass! Read again, you quoted my answer to her, so you can still read it. I deleted it because its obviously offensive to you and some other. I pointed to some more or less problematic features, that she would benefit from correcting, IF she ever wants to have any feminization surgery. By no means I feel competent to say whether she will be able to pass perfectly, or any less perfectly, based on 3 photos.
Just a little brow shaving and a trach shave is all I can see suggesting.
You have very feminine features and honestly you're gorgeous just as you are. :)
Quote from: Ravenna on May 12, 2015, 06:52:45 PM
would you take a look at my avatar and see if you think I'd pass without surgery and if I gained a little weight?
And if you think I need surgery, which ones ?
thanks! ^.^
I think the first question I need to ask you is, what level of scrutiny are we talking about? Are you talking about passing on 75% of the general population you pass by? Or you talking about 100% achieving Stealth?
Honestly, you have very fem eye shape and layout on your face, and yes your masculine jaw detracts from that and with it reduced via FFS it will further enhance your eyes - which I'm sure you know which is exactly why you did this in your photoshopping. Ditto on the thinning of the chin.
I don't think you have to worry about your receded hair line tho. On that, you're obsessing. Leave it a lone, it's fine. You're young, you haven't even entered the domain of 'need to worry about this now or will for another 10 years'.
But those above things could possibly smooth out and be less pronounced with HRT (to a degree). But really, they aren't so noticeable as to stop you from passing. What does stop you is your adam's apple. That's a point blank dead giveaway there.
Everything else tho? Meh, you could use the right tactics to minimize it and distract and call the eyes to other areas. Like wear things on your neck to cover the adams apple.
I agree with others who said to get your eyebrows done. You're almost getting a unibrow there girl. Pull the insides away farther and it will further enhance the wideness of your eyes and face as being wider and more heart shaped. Pull the centers so they are slightly further out from the center of your face than the inner crease of your eyes.
See for yourself:
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I don't think there is an adams apple, I think that is the larynx and if so, it will take a fair amount of weigh gain to cover it. I had a shave and it removed the bump but I still have a after photo showing pretty much the same thing. I would also like to see the hair restyled somehow so the forehead is covered a bit more. The face works with some forehead, just not that much. Other than that, the face works well and I wouldn't consider surgery.