I am not fully out yet. My career is as a fitter welder, and i fear coming out on the job is impossible if I wish to keep it. I am curious, has anyone else been male drag at work and a women in your spare time? Is this at all realistic or possible?
I honestly have to play pretend as a man at work Monday through Friday, but the first this I do when I get home is let my proverbial hair down. I slip into something comfortable and go about my day. I am not going to lie though it is difficult. Each and every day I find it harder and harder to put the costume back on, but that comes from allowing myself to explore my new expressions. I hope that one day I can finally live 100% and I wish that for you too (if that is something that is safe and feasible for you).
I wish you the very best in this situation. I know the mind boggling flip switch it is to be birth name by day and authentic self the rest of the time. It is mental gymnastics but IMHO allowing myself to be true to me, regardless the length of time, is so rewarding and fulfilling.
Melitta Stafford
It's always possible for as long as you can tolerate it and for as long as you don't enter the male-fail zone where people may start gendering you female regardless.
I go to work dressed to the nines every day. As long as I do my job and don't flash anyone, they're cool. I still can't live as the woman I want to be until I move out from my parents house.
Sweetheart, I had to do that for over 20 years in the army. There were many people who knew that I was dressed in feminine clothing. Fortunately, in the army, uniforms are the same for men and women so it wasn't difficult to do. Of course, there was PT where it was a little obvious that I was wearing a bra and that I had small boobs but no one ever said anything except for a couple of the women who made note of my nipples but it didn't turn into anything. You wouldn't think that this would be possible but I carry myself in such a way that it appeared to be very normal. I have even gone to work on occasion wearing makeup eyeshadow, mascara, lip stick at all. Fortunately, I was caught by one of my girlfriends and I was able to go to the restroom and take the lipstick, blush and the eyeshadow. Most times when people get read, it's because they themselves show that they are very uncomfortable with what they're doing. In my later years of service, I had a few close personal female friends who were very supportive and very knowledgeable about me and were very helpful. I was also very respected by all of the soldiers who served with me including male soldiers. Basically, what I'm trying to say is yes I have been in your position and, like I stated above, people get read because of their level of comfort with what they're doing. It's very difficult to get started. But, I did it in stages. So, I guess what I am saying is to start by taking baby steps and be willing to except letting the chips fall where they may. I understand about the possibility of losing a job. I could have easily been separated from the military years ago. But, I was fortunate to be able to retire after 23 years. Every night when I came home, I "let my hair down" and lived my life. I have been told that people who are transitioning should be prepared at some point to change jobs because of their decision to transgender in order to leave their old lifestyle behind and begin a new one. I don't know if this helps at all. But, I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it can be done.
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I live as a male 9-5 but people are questioning now and some of my colleagues are caught off guard in that they don't recognize me. One if them asked, "who is that new girl?"
I'm hiding less and less because I'm going full time soon.
Also I wear women's pants but the style is more androgynous. I wear a women's top or shirt and a polo shirt or fleece over it. It gets me through the day. We don't have a formal dress code at work so I can get away with this. It helps keep my dysphoria down until I can go FT. Once I'm off work the layers come off.
Hi Abigayle, welcome to Susan's. Thank you for your service. I look forward to seeing you around the forums. Good luck and Hugs
Mariah
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Quote from: Abigayle on May 30, 2015, 11:02:53 PM
Sweetheart, I had to do that for over 20 years in the army. There were many people who knew that I was dressed in feminine clothing. Fortunately, in the army, uniforms are the same for men and women so it wasn't difficult to do. Of course, there was PT where it was a little obvious that I was wearing a bra and that I had small boobs but no one ever said anything except for a couple of the women who made note of my nipples but it didn't turn into anything. You wouldn't think that this would be possible but I carry myself in such a way that it appeared to be very normal. I have even gone to work on occasion wearing makeup eyeshadow, mascara, lip stick at all. Fortunately, I was caught by one of my girlfriends and I was able to go to the restroom and take the lipstick, blush and the eyeshadow. Most times when people get read, it's because they themselves show that they are very uncomfortable with what they're doing. In my later years of service, I had a few close personal female friends who were very supportive and very knowledgeable about me and were very helpful. I was also very respected by all of the soldiers who served with me including male soldiers. Basically, what I'm trying to say is yes I have been in your position and, like I stated above, people get read because of their level of comfort with what they're doing. It's very difficult to get started. But, I did it in stages. So, I guess what I am saying is to start by taking baby steps and be willing to except letting the chips fall where they may. I understand about the possibility of losing a job. I could have easily been separated from the military years ago. But, I was fortunate to be able to retire after 23 years. Every night when I came home, I "let my hair down" and lived my life. I have been told that people who are transitioning should be prepared at some point to change jobs because of their decision to transgender in order to leave their old lifestyle behind and begin a new one. I don't know if this helps at all. But, I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it can be done.
I know this isn't what you are asking but my roommate worked on the flight line for TWA where she transitioned. She was rated airframe and power plant so other than electronics, she could repair anything on the airplane. TWA was union so she had union protection. Was it easy - no. The word went through the system pretty fast and crew flying in would go down to the hangers to get a look at her. They also left her little nasty grams that I don't want to say any more about. The good thing was the women were very supportive of her and latter on after the novelty wore off things pretty much returned to normal.
Quote from: Zoe the Obscure on May 30, 2015, 10:25:18 PM
I am not fully out yet. My career is as a fitter welder, and i fear coming out on the job is impossible if I wish to keep it. I am curious, has anyone else been male drag at work and a women in your spare time? Is this at all realistic or possible?
I did while taking HRT and growing my hair out and having electrolysis. I lived as a girl at nights and weekends for 21 months. I was a fork truck driver and the people I worked with thought I had long dyed red permed hair and manicured nails was because I was into punk and rock music. They were some of the happiest times of my life. Eventually I had to come out to them and they were OK
Hi,
A double life never tryed that or could , not posible ,
yet how i was percived was quite different and yet some new all along what i was and so did i, just there was no point in talking about it as i would have been thrown in the nut house quick smart . born 1947 and if you know what the thinking was like in those days youll understand .
Im a female with out my womb any way does not matter , 1963 i went into the cabby making and building later on spent 46 years in the trades and i loved it no i was not like the other guys and did not relate to or with them and i keeped my mouth shut tight concerning myself had i not, i would have been done over and sacked ,
over the last few years over 21 , i told people im not a male and never was and things would change over time those i know in bussness and friends work mates and family and was accepted over night well the whole of New Zealand knew so the heading was noel = no-el to noeleena, and i have and still do my work on the job as a normal female as i had done for 46 years my clothes have changed and really thats all if you look at how i was percived .
My facial features are much the same my body changed in many lovely ways with out meds / drugs , i have had corretive surgerys as needed and really thats about it ,
40 years ago and now people who knew me then will still reconise me now and my friends going back 57 years still know me and are still my friends never lost any friends at all,
some who saw my interviews on two TVNZ stations knew me straight away , so i am well known ,
What has changed a,,,,,, LOT ,,,,,in how i express myself in all parts of my life as a very expressive female no doubt more so than many women do , im feminine and this i was not ready to accept because i did not think i was , and others put me under a close watch to see if i really was a female some thing i never knew till later and was told by my friends , you see i was and still dont act a part im as real as any other female and when your put in the spot light as i was and was watched for any thing that would show im not a female then youll understand how things have been for myself for some 15 years it is longer than that of cause just this was the time i told others ,near to me ,
Okay people are not fools so dont treat them as such be honist up front and willing to join in and help take part in what ever is your interest and above all allow them to be a major part of your life open up your heart i have given of myself and been friendly to others those who know about myself and those who do know me its as a person a female and grown as into a woman of worth ,,
You know when you open your self up to others and let them in you have over come fear you are not afraid to bear all and for myself it opened up so many different doors to peoples ...HEARTS....you can never understand what that does to you , to have acceptance you have to change how you think , Ill tell you now theres nothing that can compare to what i have been given in how i,v been accepted ,
...noeleena...
So far down the line, after working for about a month at my job, I did come out to my manager as such "If I wore a skirt to work and changed my name to Kate, would that be okay?" She laughed and said everything would be alright, and I do play my part in my femininity at work, just don't really look the part, just recently (last week) had I looked in the mirror, and found my mustache didn't look right on my face, and had started shaving constantly.
I do kinda need to live a double life in my own, since once I get my transfer taken care of with my military units, then I do need to keep myself hidden and under wraps, since there is no protections for transgender just yet, and I would hate to lose my free sometimes medical, and dental which I get paid for, and the small portion of GI Bill I do get for school, at least until when I start university. Also, I do eventually need to tell my parents, brother, and my extended family about the true me, and until then I must kinda keep myself slightly hidden, other than maybe since I have worn girl clothes, but just not the dresses or skirts that I do want and need in my life.
Kate ♥
I think in the beginning we all live a double life, some of us transition and come out.. some dont.
I remember when i was still studying, i lived a double life.. Guy mode for class.. but when I was at home.. the guy clothes came off and the woman's clothing went on.. The only clue to my double life and it was not an obvious one, was that both of my ears were pierced. My guys have their ears pierced.
Some days I wanted to feel more feminine, I would wear a pair of panties under my guy clothes. Sometimes if I could get away with it, a sports bra too. I often wore baggy hoodies, which covered the fact that I wore a bra.
I am enjoying all your opinions and stories. Going guy drag for me is easier at the moment (I don't exactly pass ever), however my tits are starting to grow, so i need to disguise them. This is a hard life.
I cannot be masculine 100 percent. I am naturally androgynous in personality but if a man flirts with me (and I find him attractive) be damn it all... the real me will come through. I am not ashame of the real me but rather do not want to make my personality a conversation.
I havent transistion yet.
I am not exactly living a double life (cause there is no switching between modes), but I am not exactly full time either. The limitations are caused by job - many co-workers know, but there are others who have no idea, but getting used to know me "before" they dont question anything. I wear quite gender neutral clothes at work (I have even tried only female clothes (those which guys can wear too but which are cut for female shape), but that does not change anything - I even get aware with earrings... But, as soon as I leave the premises and step outside, the world does not see me as a guy anymore - I am being gendered and treated as female.
So, if You are able to pull this off, this kind of existence can be life-saver (or not), because it can go on and on for indefinite period of time (but it depends of course on Your physics and other variables) - I hardly reached an A cup and most probably they will stay that way, so two layers or clothing would make me quite flat :D.
Quote from: Ms Grace on May 30, 2015, 10:38:01 PM
It's always possible for as long as you can tolerate it and for as long as you don't enter the male-fail zone where people may start gendering you female regardless.
I did part-time female for several years. It was emotionally challenging. Several members of my support group reported the same. They all eventually went the F' it route and fully transitioned. Living where you have protections, working in a field where it kind of sort of is OK, or young enough to take the risk are all big factors in that decision on top of the need to feel genuine. I suspect it's only lack of being able do part-time now has kept be from also reaching the F' It point. I was pretty close to it before my circumstances changed
"Male Fail" does not come about by accident, but by design. Yes, you can have a B-cup perhaps even larger, as long as you dress to hide them. Hair is a pretty obvious if not kept up as a guys. As a welder I doubt it's all that long to start with and somewhat impractical to be long.
Yes, more or less accidentally; I had a date to come out at work, but it was harder and harder to go out as a guy in my free time, so I just... didn't. After a couple months, I realized I'd been effectively full-time outside of work without meaning to. Shortly thereafter, I had to more up the date at work b/c I was fast approaching the point where I couldn't hide the changes, so the "double life" period only lasted maybe 2-3 months.
I work in a heavily male dominant industry, seeing as I'm not really out to many people right now and not on HRT yet I can get away with it.
I do worry about the day I will have to drop this bomb on my workmates, as I am quite the well known union activist in my industry, pretty much every ship in Australia will find out as soon as I come out it will filter like wildfire. My union is very big on workers/human/equal rights so should be very supportive.
I'm still deciding whether to transition while working at sea or to take some time off and do something else for awhile and come back to my current profession later in life when I'm fulltime. Can't really do the stealth thing as I have to disclose any medical conditions and medications I'm using to the ships captain by law.
So I'm between a rock and hard place on this issue, I do try to do small things to keep the dysphoria in check while I'm at sea, painting my toenails, wearing clothes I feel most comfortable in the privacy of my cabin but I do wish I didn't have to hide who I really am.
One step at a time is all I can really do
Quote from: Zoe the Obscure on May 30, 2015, 10:25:18 PM
I am not fully out yet. My career is as a fitter welder, and i fear coming out on the job is impossible if I wish to keep it. I am curious, has anyone else been male drag at work and a women in your spare time? Is this at all realistic or possible?
I'm doing that for quite some time now. Most of the time I don't spend any more time as a man than it is absolutely necessary. If I have to go shopping after work I come home first, change to my more feminine women's clothing(I barely have any men's clothing) and shoes, let my hair down and then I go out shopping. This takes considerably more time than just going to the shop on the way home but I reached a stage where I really need this.
There were times when I had to 'hide' because I saw some colleagues when I went shopping after work so they wouldn't see me as a girl and there is a possibility that I've run into someone from the company without noticing it.
It is increasingly difficult to present as male at work because I know how much better I feel when I'm not trying to pretend to be a man and how much better I look and sometimes I'm on the verge of crying at work because of that.
And it is a real pain when at the end of the weekend I have to remove the nail polish I just applied Friday night or Saturday morning.
Quote from: Kayleewantsout on May 31, 2015, 12:39:36 PM
I'm still deciding whether to transition while working at sea or to take some time off and do something else for awhile and come back to my current profession later in life when I'm fulltime. Can't really do the stealth thing as I have to disclose any medical conditions and medications I'm using to the ships captain by law.
If I were you, the path would be to talk to union then management. Start hormones, part time on land and then pick a trip that you will board as a woman. You need to make sure the captan on that ship is comfortable with you before the ship leaves dock. I suspect there may be a good deal of kidding, some of it brutal on the first few trips but as long as the captan is in your corner there will be a cap on it.
If you leave and come back someone from a past cruse will spot you and thing will be harder to control. It's always best to work with what you have instead of starting fresh. Unfortunately I didn't have that option and had to take a new job after starting to come out at the old one. (nothing I can prove, there was a massive layoff)
Quote from: Zoe the Obscure on May 30, 2015, 10:25:18 PM
I am not fully out yet. My career is as a fitter welder, and i fear coming out on the job is impossible if I wish to keep it. I am curious, has anyone else been male drag at work and a women in your spare time? Is this at all realistic or possible?
I have worked as a fitter / welder for the past 35 years.
Long hair was ALL WAYS pulled back in a ponytail.
Leather apron, and long sleeve shirts for fitting. Full leathers when welding.
Never could grow long fingernails, so no painting them, ( the oil form the steel would take it off ).
After work on Fridays we would stop in for a beer, and I would leave for home to clean up and get comfey.
So in MY experience yes it is possiable to have it both ways !! Y.M.M.V.
Good luck,
Jamie2
I do not have anything to add. I do know different states have different laws against discrimination for gender preference or gender expression. I also know that even in these states with good protection that employers can be creative with their documentation to cover their tracks.
The double life can be difficult, but if it is not causing too much difficulty then it is an option. You still have to do what is best for you in the long run.
I lived a double life for the first two years of my transition. It's not for the faint of heart, like its extremely stressful at times. If you have a therapist to talk things out with it'll balance things out somewhat but its still really tough.
Constructions trades are the worst place to be when trans. If you come out they may have the reserve to not discriminate openly, but they will treat you like a freak. I find that scenario too toxic to deal with. I guess a double life is doable, but ultimately i need to change careers if i am to be accepted in the workplace. Transition sucks, you lose everything. Sometimes i ask myself if it is worth it. Honestly it is not, but the there doesn't seem to be an option B.
Quote from: Zoe the Obscure on May 31, 2015, 11:49:28 PM
Constructions trades are the worst place to be when trans. If you come out they may have the reserve to not discriminate openly, but they will treat you like a freak. I find that scenario too toxic to deal with. I guess a double life is doable, but ultimately i need to change careers if i am to be accepted in the workplace. Transition sucks, you lose everything. Sometimes i ask myself if it is worth it. Honestly it is not, but the there doesn't seem to be an option B.
It may not seem like it's worth it now but believe me it was worth it.
I am in "the trades" in a very conservative part of the US (Florida). Fortunately, I am in the management end of it and have several college degrees related to the industry. I also live the double life thing in order to maintain a relatively high income. This has defiantly contributed to the maintenance of my marriage. I have long hair, been on HRT for a decade, and had my beard removed. If asked directly, I will not lie.
I have found that if you are a good worker management will try to "fit" you in. You just need a superior set of skills, experience, and a willingness to take on the hard tasks. Maybe that isn't the best "forever" solution, but could it be, perhaps, the best step to get to your goal? Transition is expensive, and the trades can be a good way to finance it. It may seem slow, but better to get there in a while than to jump ship too fast and end up underwater. Just keep your eye on the prize, and work for it.