I have no clue how they found out but they did. Overnight crew doesn't work Friday night so I spent the day sleeping in, but day crew and the office do work, they only work 8 hours instead of the usual 10 though. Well when I woke up I had an email notification on my phone and when I looked it was my work email address and the email was from HR.
Once I got some coffee and could see straight again after about 13 hours of sleep (I really needed it lol) I read the email. It read that "the company has been made aware of my gender identity issues and pending gender change." They went on to say that they need me to come to the main building (I work in one of 3 satellite buildings) half an hour early to talk to them.
Honestly I don't know how they found out. I haven't told anyone and my FB is about as private as can be with memes as my picture instead of a picture of myself. I really hope I don't lose this job.....mentally and financially I can't handle it again, plus I really love this job.
Hi kariann
hugs.... try not to overthink this, but I can understand how worrying it might be.
However it may be nothing to worry about, they may just be wanting to understand what your plans are.
Best wishes for you though :-*
L Katy :-*
I am confused why would you lose your job for your gender? That is against the law and a violation of your human rights.
Quote from: Sarah leah on June 06, 2015, 02:32:54 AM
I am confused why would you lose your job for your gender? That is against the law and a violation of your human rights.
Not true in all places. Any employer can find an excuse to to get rid of you if they choose and if you are an at will employee, they don't even need to give a reason.
If they're going to send ominous emails like that the least they could do is offer a bit more detail. Hopefully it is nothing untoward and you will be fine.
It seems like a stressful email but it may be so they can counter act any discrimination against you. Only way to know will be to go in.
2 quick thoughts
1 - look up your states anti-discrimination and labor laws ... and maybe federal as well.
2 - It is possible that they are wanting to ask you what you want to be called or how you want to be addressed and let you know that they (HR) are an asset for you in case there is discrimination by other workers.
3 - Print the email and ask them what their intentions were for sending it. It is unlikely, but maybe somebody sent an email as a joke and the HR department is not aware of it.
OK ... I can't count to 2 very well. The best thing to do is be honest. If you say you are not transgender and later come out you can get in trouble for lying. Also understand that thye can only ask certain questions due to HIPAA laws.
Quote from: Sarah leah on June 06, 2015, 02:32:54 AM
I am confused why would you lose your job for your gender? That is against the law and a violation of your human rights.
Ohio is an "Employment at will" state. Also while they really are firing me because of my gender, or my being transgender, they can say that it is actually because of performance at work, attendance (which would be bs since I currently have perfect attendance) or even that business has slowed and since I'm one of the newer people at work they are cutting me.....kinda like a layoff except they never bring you back and you lose your benefits package. It may be wrong but they can backdoor anyone out of a company and its all legal.
I can understand your worry. I'd worry, too. But, FWIW, if I were going to fire you for gender identity discrimination, I wouldn't put it in writing, especially in an email to you. This actually sounds like they want to be an ally. Hoping for the best for you.
PS, make sure you save a hard copy of that email in case you need it for later.
Quote from: kariann330 on June 06, 2015, 03:58:15 AM
Ohio is an "Employment at will" state. Also while they really are firing me because of my gender, or my being transgender, they can say that it is actually because of performance at work, attendance (which would be bs since I currently have perfect attendance) or even that business has slowed and since I'm one of the newer people at work they are cutting me.....kinda like a layoff except they never bring you back and you lose your benefits package. It may be wrong but they can backdoor anyone out of a company and its all legal.
Keep in mind:
* Even in "at will" states, they can't fire you for your race, or religion, for example.
* Yes, they can claim they fired you for some other reason. But you have an email that is evidence of their knowledge of your transition. That should scare them.
* The EEOC ruled that discrimination based on gender transition *is* sex discrimination, meaning they would prosecute a sex discrimination charge for you in federal court if it came to that.
If it seems like things are going badly, mentioning "EEOC" to them casually might not be a bad tactic.
It would seem rather odd that they would word the email that way if they were going to fire you. They would look like they are looking for a lawsuit.
Quote from: suzifrommd on June 06, 2015, 04:54:41 AM
* The EEOC ruled that discrimination based on gender transition *is* sex discrimination, meaning they would prosecute a sex discrimination charge for you in federal court if it came to that.
If it seems like things are going badly, mentioning "EEOC" to them casually might not be a bad tactic.
This is great advice. And I might add you should even have a copy of the policy from the EEOC. Here is a link to their webpage.
http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/wysk/enforcement_protections_lgbt_workers.cfm
That page also includes important information about bathrooms should they be so presumptuous as to try to dictate a discriminatory policy.
Human resources should already KNOW all the EEOC policy, but I found that I had to educate our office here (also in Ohio)
I hope this information doesn't sound alarming. It just should seem useful to have with you should you feel blind-sided.
Best wishes.
Quote from: LordKAT on June 06, 2015, 02:40:27 AM
Not true in all places. Any employer can find an excuse to to get rid of you if they choose and if you are an at will employee, they don't even need to give a reason.
In the US, an email like this one (please do NOT delete the email from HR) is positive evidence of discrimination.
Imagine if HR had sent, "we are aware of the fact that you are black, and would like you to come in half hour early...."
Nail in the coffin if something improper happens!
Quote from: iKate on June 06, 2015, 04:58:28 AM
It would seem rather odd that they would word the email that way if they were going to fire you. They look like they are looking for a lawsuit.
I don't think she's going to be fired...like was said earlier they just want to know her intentions as they apply to the company.
And probably affirm that they support her.
"At will" states suck. Go UNION! :)
Quote from: LordKAT on June 06, 2015, 02:40:27 AM
Not true in all places. Any employer can find an excuse to to get rid of you if they choose and if you are an at will employee, they don't even need to give a reason.
While that is true; the employee can file suit and if evidence is found that discrimination is on the basis of being a member of a protected class it is illegal discrimination and the employer can face penalties.
Also, it may surprise some but even highly progressive states like New York are at-will.
Quote from: Ms Grace on June 06, 2015, 02:55:34 AM
If they're going to send ominous emails like that the least they could do is offer a bit more detail. Hopefully it is nothing untoward and you will be fine.
"Ominous" to say the least. Almost prankish except for the major implications it can have for the prankster. It sure could have been worded a lot more delicately.
As to how they could have found out? Some coworker, rumor mill, friend of a friend of a friend, word on the street. The Caitlyn Jenner headlines all week. Then it grows like a fire. Gets to someone in HR who is perhaps transphobic or from a transphobe bathroom nut. And HR then freaks out, reacting without thinking.
I think in the USA there are only 13 states that have any sort of transgender rights. (Not to be confused with any sort of gay rights bills. Keep in mind the bathroom nuts are totally insane about us and are a vocal group) At the local level YMMV. And as LordKat said which I can back up after being in upper management, If "The Company" wants to get rid of you, they will. Only the Dilbertian Pointy Haired Boss will put it in writting it's because you're trans. Which, BTW, they did with that email so save it. I recently worked for a place with a 1800 or so head head count. THey had a "Layoff" because "things were slow". Three production workers and a tech (good one) that they recently became aware of that had epilepsy.
The best case scenario, maybe the boss wants to know where you got your surgery done because they're trans too. May I ask what your job is?
Big hugs. I can only hope that it turns out to be a positive experience and not a negative one. Regardless keep the email because anything like that is evidence you may need later. Please keep us posted. Good luck and Hugs
Mariah
The Most Likely way they found out.....
We are all serialized and tracked from birth. There is No Such Thing As Deep Stealth. HR likely got your name, SS, gender bounced by either SS or from the health insurance carrier. A mismatch came up somewhere in the chain. Or even perhaps a pre-employment background check came back with a name change you "inadvertently" forgot to put on your application for employment. Which likely also said in the fine print that if you lied and we find out you can be terminated.
That sucks :( I know in my State in Australia if they tried it they would be dead in the water and dragged before the courts. I just do not understand this kind of cruelty on the part of a select few companies.
It can be a bit different here in the United States if you forget to put that name change down on the app. They can drag you in front of the courts and or fire you. Hugs.
Mariah
Quote from: Sarah leah on June 06, 2015, 07:27:52 AM
That sucks :( I know in my State in Australia if they tried it they would be dead in the water and dragged before the courts. I just do not understand this kind of cruelty on the part of a select few companies.
They could have found out about you from your health insurance if you have used your health insurance to pay for therapy or hormones or made inquiries it's possible they found that way. Since your employer pays the majority cost of health care, they sometimes want accounts set up so they can see claims paid, sometimes they don't. Maybe your employer is one that wants to examine claims?
Quote from: Zumbagirl on June 06, 2015, 07:53:51 AM
They could have found out about you from your health insurance if you have used your health insurance to pay for therapy or hormones or made inquiries it's possible they found that way. Since your employer pays the majority cost of health care, they sometimes want accounts set up so they can see claims paid, sometimes they don't. Maybe your employer is one that wants to examine claims?
In the US it would be a total violation of Federal Law for the insurance company to pass on medical info to anyone under HIPA. Health insurance yes, only in that in the past your name and SS number was linked to a "Male". A member of my support group with a new employer had this happen. HR had no clue. One day someone noticed that "Mary" had "Male" in the report from the carrier. As did her ID card. THey contacted her, said they noticed the mistake. At that time her gender maker for her D/L was not changed so even that still said male.
Quote from: JoanneB on June 06, 2015, 08:00:12 AM
In the US it would be a total violation of Federal Law for the insurance company to pass on medical info to anyone under HIPA. Health insurance yes, only in that in the past your name and SS number was linked to a "Male". A member of my support group with a new employer had this happen. HR had no clue. One day someone noticed that "Mary" had "Male" in the report from the carrier. As did her ID card. THey contacted her, said they noticed the mistake. At that time her gender maker for her D/L was not changed so even that still said male.
HIPPA does not apply to the person paying the bill. Some companies do want claim information and some companies do not. You would be surprised at the amount of information an employer can get about your health information just by asking.
That really sucks that they emailed you like that, Kariann. As someone said, at the very least they could have provided some detail about what they wanted to talk about.
I agree that the email sounds ominous, but it may very well not be the loss of your job. They may just want to know what your plans are, and for you to work with them on transition so the workforce has a minimum of distraction. They may want to talk with you about the other people's comments (what the person said that talked to HR) and make sure that you are treated respectfully when you are are back at work -- again to keep the workforce to a minimum of distraction AND to minimize their liability. HR's first, second, and third job responsibility is to keep the employees productively working. However, they may well choose to do that in a way that actually supports you.
In fact, HR would have to be *seriously* incompetent to send you that email with the intent of firing you. No matter what protections you do or do not have in Ohio, you could still make a whole lot of trouble for them. And I would imagine that the ACLU would take up your case in a heartbeat!
I'd suggest going into the meeting with a positive attitude. You can always change to bitch-mode later, with a lawyer if necessary.
Kim :)
Personally, I think that having that email is gold - print it off and put it in a safe place. If they do anything retaliatory in the future you have iron clad proof that they knew about you.
With that said - you have no way to know their intentions without going in to see them. It seems that the cat is somewhat out of the bag now, and there is really nothing to do but to proudly own it going forward. As someone else said lying about it will only box you in later.
This entire deal could be essentially nothing at all but information gathering on their part.
make sure to bring an audio recording device to record the conversation. and make sure to inform them that you will be recording it for future reference in case of any changes. and request a member of management to be present.
if you have a recording that they had a conversation with you about transitioning, and then fired you. it wouldnt matter what they fired you for. you can get them for it.
i record all conversations that i have with management and i only had to inform the shift and store manager that i do so. the assistant managers and supervisors dont need to know about it (at my place of employment though) in order for me to use it against the company, since their superiors were made aware of it.
I find it curious how they found out. Mai has got a very good idea. Lets just hope they are just being nice and want to be good employers and help you out.
Might I make a suggestion and that is let them take the lead for the first part of the conversation and don't volunteer information. You want to learn what they know before you make your play. If you have a cell pone that can record a conversation, turn it on before walking into the office. I watched what happened with my roommate and what most likely happened is somebody spotted you and then made an anonymous report to the company. The company may not have much more of an idea what is going on than you do. This could be an effort to help you but cover your bets just in case.
Something not mentioned is that a prankster may have sent the email to you and it may not have come from personal at all so cover all your bets on this one until it starts to play out.
Quote from: kariann330 on June 06, 2015, 01:58:56 AM
I have no clue how they found out but they did. Overnight crew doesn't work Friday night so I spent the day sleeping in, but day crew and the office do work, they only work 8 hours instead of the usual 10 though. Well when I woke up I had an email notification on my phone and when I looked it was my work email address and the email was from HR.
Once I got some coffee and could see straight again after about 13 hours of sleep (I really needed it lol) I read the email. It read that "the company has been made aware of my gender identity issues and pending gender change." They went on to say that they need me to come to the main building (I work in one of 3 satellite buildings) half an hour early to talk to them.
Honestly I don't know how they found out. I haven't told anyone and my FB is about as private as can be with memes as my picture instead of a picture of myself. I really hope I don't lose this job.....mentally and financially I can't handle it again, plus I really love this job.
Print the email. Contact an attorney immediately. Give no information to HR that they don't already have. Contact an attorney before you see HR.
I'm glad I contacted HR before coming out. They made it clear they were going to work with me and they did both on a personal and professional level. Hopefully this is nothing more than "oh crap how's the bathroom situation going to work out". That was the biggest issue and it eventually went away.
However I also had nothing to lose. I work as a government contractor and Obama gave us legal protection last year. I waited for him to sign it before I spoke to HR.
Flash back time. I completely forgot about this. Back in the early 1980's I was out of job and in an attempt to find work I went to a Temp agency. They sent me out to the Ford Military division in Southern California as a computer operator. When I walked in the door, they had me fill out all the standard paper work until I ran across a question "Have you used any other names?". A cold sweat came across my body and I thought this is a military contractor so I better be truthful and put down my old name. After about 3 weeks things were going along pretty good and they were happy with my work when I was called into a meeting. There must have been about a dozen people around that table but the only one I recall now is the head of security. The ask me about the other name and I came clean. They then told me they were considering me for a permanent position and as it would require a security clearance they needed to be sure I couldn't be compromised and that I had passed the test. I would like to tell you this story has a happy ending but I can't. About a week latter the contract was canceled because word got out that the tank took out an outhouse instead of the target and they had a layoff. As the last one in, I was the first one out the door. And that is the story of my security clearance.
Friends, why are we all assuming that the email Karyann has received must automatically imply gloom and doom?
Should we make the immediate assumption that a transphobic HR group and management team are out to get us? Perhaps it may be the proactive efforts of HR to assist and support?
Karyann, you've got a lot of ammo here, should you need it. Let us know what transpires.
Regards
Julia
What if it turned out to be something as simple as they thought someone else had stolen your identity or that you had stolen someone's identity and wanted to make sure that you weren't a victim of identity theft. Also they may think you're covering up a crime record and want to ask why you changed your name.
I know many people can be prejudiced against transgender and I'll never imagine why or to what extent. It seems like they shouldn't care as long as you didn't do anything illegal.
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on June 06, 2015, 05:57:27 PM
Friends, why are we all assuming that the email Karyann has received must automatically imply gloom and doom?
I agree totally - It may be they want to clarify name and gender preferences on the job.
It does not hurt to go in with some legal information if it is needed, but I would go into the meeting confident but neutral in my demeanor.
It very well could be no big deal in teh end.
I know I didn't.
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on June 06, 2015, 05:57:27 PM
Friends, why are we all assuming that the email Karyann has received must automatically imply gloom and doom?
Should we make the immediate assumption that a transphobic HR group and management team are out to get us? Perhaps it may be the proactive efforts of HR to assist and support?
Karyann, you've got a lot of ammo here, should you need it. Let us know what transpires.
Regards
Julia
Quote from: Dena on June 06, 2015, 05:43:39 PM
About a week latter the contract was canceled because word got out that the tank took out an outhouse instead of the target and they had a layoff.
Sgt York AA gun (DIVADS) worked on that one too. Was working as associate engineer at company called Avantek back then. Sorry to interupt thread.
Keep that email btw.
Quote from: Dena on June 06, 2015, 04:33:26 PM
Something not mentioned is that a prankster may have sent the email to you and it may not have come from personal at all so cover all your bets on this one until it starts to play out.
That would be a good thought, except that neither of the email addresses used are public, on a public server, and other than the actual employee the email address is issued to, no one can access it. Yes IT logs all email traffic but they can't even get into your account, they can only reset the password via their administrative access, once reset they don't have a way to get in and send an email because the system sends out a text message with your temporary password.
It might be a small factory, about 250 people maximum, but they have and use some rather advanced programs and machines. Hell we are the only company in north east Ohio with a 800 ton servo press....everyone else has 300-400 ton servos and a wire edm machine just to show how advanced we are.
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on June 06, 2015, 05:57:27 PM
Friends, why are we all assuming that the email Karyann has received must automatically imply gloom and doom?
Should we make the immediate assumption that a transphobic HR group and management team are out to get us? Perhaps it may be the proactive efforts of HR to assist and support?
Karyann, you've got a lot of ammo here, should you need it. Let us know what transpires.
Regards
Julia
I'm with you. Why mention gender identity if they are going to fire her for it. It's like telling a pregnant woman they found out she is pregnant and are going to fire her as a result. This makes absolutely no sense.
Kariann,
Try not to sweat it. They may just want to make sure you are aware of counseling services, etc. I guess a bathroom discussion would be in order too.
Hopefully they will help you.
Are you full-time with benefits.
BTW, the Veteran's Association recently sent out a disclosure statement explaining who they could/would release confidential medical information without consent. I read the 8-1/2 x 11 brochure. As I recall it was 16+ pages long. I.e., personal medical info can be released to a lot of agencies, and those approving services or payment for services.
Jen
Just as an anecdotal thing - I once had to resolve an issue with my insurance not paying for expensive medication that my kids needed. I had to have the company benefits department intervene and they were able to pull up the claim on the computer themselves and approve it manually. So yes they do see.
Quote from: kariann330 on June 06, 2015, 11:25:45 PM
That would be a good thought, except that neither of the email addresses used are public, on a public server, and other than the actual employee the email address is issued to, no one can access it. Yes IT logs all email traffic but they can't even get into your account, they can only reset the password via their administrative access, once reset they don't have a way to get in and send an email because the system sends out a text message with your temporary password.
I've had recruiters guess at my work email address and guess correctly to send me job ads to my office, so finding a non-public email address seems well within the realm of possibilities. It's also very easy to spoof an email, although companies have become wise to that and may have checks in place for it now.