I love being out with friends and am part of outreach to people just coming out and those who are long term members of what we might consider our community. It can be uncomfortable for novices stepping out, so having a sister, mentor or friend may provide some encouragement. I'm no pro, by any means, but happy to be supportive.
How do you feel when you are out with someone who is more obviously trans or questioning than you? My BFF and i have shepherded newbies who show up wearing a dress with a flourish of rich dark hair popping out of the bra line. Do we make tactful suggestions? What crosses the line for you?
On the other hand, I have also met trans people who don't want me to stand too close (you might out me!), don't consider themselves in community or even transgender at all. I respect your self definition but how do you feel in these circumstances? Do we police ourselves too harshly sometimes?
Our awareness of status and judgement, even if unspoken, is ongoing. We may compare ourselves every day to those cisgender and transgender people all around us. How would you feel standing next to Courtney Cox or Caitlyn Jenner?? I hope we might open some minds and stimulate dialogue. You??
Good
Honestly? As a paranoid stealth, I'd avoid. In 2012 I had a terrible fight with an open/non-op we were living together and I left. Our friendship ended cos she was offended I wouldn't walk or go out with her. Even myself I was having a bit difficulty passing that time and you have one super duper obvious who just comes and smashes down all my hard worked effort to pass a little bit.
Cos here when they clock you, it's OVER! They view you literally as a MAN! And there's nothing more that irritates the core or my soul to be clocked.
I think this will depend whether they are stealths or open. I guess more than 90% of stealths will avoid and opens won't mind.
I only ever did this once, and I don't really think i could again. I just felt uncomfortable and out of place completely.
There was about 4 or 5 of us out meeting for the first time through one person we all knew, and pretty sure we had all more or less started to transition. But for me I had felt that I was so much further ahead than the rest of them, with none of them even starting any sort of voice training or any real attempts to pass, meanwhile I was pretty much going stealth.
It just felt wrong for me to be there with the rest of them and just couldn't enjoy myself.
I have no issues at all with helping others out but I just don't think I'd be able to do something like that again
I'd say that there is nothing wrong with suggestions. Fashion and grooming advice is a big industry.
I appreciate your honest and heartfelt replies.
I don't travel around with any transgender people , not because I'm stealth, but because I don't know anyone at the moment to hang out with . It wouldn't bother me though.
So far, I've only been out once, at night and pretty much only in the car. But a CIS friend keeps bugging me to go to lunch with her as Marly. The idea makes me very nervous since I obsess so much about the prospect of being ridiculed. She insists that I'd pass just fine. But I have doubts.
I like being out in public with people whose gender journey is not hidden. I don't really care if I get clocked because of the company I keep.
One of the things that really gave me confidence that my transition would be satisfactory was an outing I took with some trans women, one of whom did not much care about passing. No one stared, no one gave us a hard time, and it was a normal afternoon. At that point I was six months away from my first estradiol and hadn't even put on my first article of women's clothing so I had no idea how passable I'd be. I learned that day that if I don't ever pass it's no big deal, I can still live my life as a woman.
Nothing compares, in my experience. to being out with the "tall girls club." Empowering for me!
Quote from: stephaniec on June 19, 2015, 11:45:50 AM
I don't travel around with any transgender people , not because I'm stealth, but because I don't know anyone at the moment to hang out with . It wouldn't bother me though.
Quote from: Marly on June 19, 2015, 11:48:59 AM
So far, I've only been out once, at night and pretty much only in the car. But a CIS friend keeps bugging me to go to lunch with her as Marly. The idea makes me very nervous since I obsess so much about the prospect of being ridiculed. She insists that I'd pass just fine. But I have doubts.
You never know until you go;-) I found that most people were way more involved with their own issues, shopping or whatever. Our fears and concerns become magnified in isolation. For most people we are no big deal. Ever shop at Walmart? Wishing you the best outings.
I've been out with groups of other trans woman who some were blending very well and other's very obviously trans. For the most part never an issue and we've all gone to restaurants in a group and sometimes those that don't pass get mis-gendered, but people who blended well were properly gendered so it's not like it's going to clock you.
With just one person that is obviously trans with you is a little different when it comes to people noticing and staring. I've been in those scenarios and I notice people do question it more in the way they look, but it hasn't clocked me. (They did get clocked.) Nothing violent or anything but certainly stares at them and they also seem curious how I was connected to this person.
I think it's great to be supportive and going out with someone just starting out (shopping, etc). I've done it many times and would happily doing it for someone else that needs a confidence boost.
Quote from: Sydney_NYC on June 19, 2015, 12:32:33 PM
I think it's great to be supportive and going out with someone just starting out (shopping, etc). I've done it many times and would happily doing it for someone else that needs a confidence boost.
The better part of Sisterhood, thank you Sydney
I treat people like people. If you're visibly trans, I'm cool with you. If you're stealth, I'm cool with you too. I don't have a problem. Society has the problem.
My voice is really the only thing outing me now but my glasses does too. However once I fix those I am still going to publicly go out with unpassable trans women (and men). I also hang out with very passable trans women like Sydney and Gabby. And why the heck not? It's not like we weren't there at one point in our lives. I value community because community has helped me. I have money for VFS, body contouring and FFS but I know everyone doesn't have that. And that's fine. I love everyone, especially my trans sisters and brothers.
Considering that I have never physically met a trans person (that I'm aware of), I wouldn't care if they were passable or not. It would be awesome and less isolating to meet another transgendered individual in person.
Quote from: iKate on June 19, 2015, 10:24:41 PM
...
My voice is really the only thing outing me now but my glasses does too. However once I fix those I am still going to publicly go out with unpassable trans women (and men). I also hang out with very passable trans women like Sydney and Gabby. And why the heck not? ....
Aww, thank you :icon_chick:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnew2.fjcdn.com%2Fthumbnails%2Fcomments%2FAww%2Bthank%2Byou%2Bd%2B_c6009a824f47fa7263df7e65736319cf.gif&hash=c3f0b249aecb3aa26216b283a4531bbd5f8b3c0b)
Quote from: Tessa James on June 19, 2015, 12:01:35 PM
You never know until you go;-) I found that most people were way more involved with their own issues, shopping or whatever. Our fears and concerns become magnified in isolation. For most people we are no big deal. Ever shop at Walmart? Wishing you the best outings.
Quite true. I doubt if I'd be the most odd looking person at a Walmart LOL
I never even give it a thought. I'm not going to get outed, and even if I did I don't care. How someone random stranger chooses to percieve me makes not one jot of difference to the person I am, and thus has no adverse effect on my life at all. I did not do this for them and their approval, I did it for me. It did it so that I would know with certainty what I am, because in truth nothing else matters.
When I was younger and more newly finished I might have been a bit nervous, but the later experience of traveling the world with a life partner who was very beautiful and attractive, but truly only passed intermittently, put me at my ease, because on many occasions I was able to rescue her because I was often misread by her detractors as the "rather plain, long suffering and loyal cis wife, who had stood by her stunning tans partner" which in the heat of the moment I, of course, always used to its full advantage to calm the situation...
I felt for her, because in her later years she sometimes used to tell me how painful it was, which of course I understood, but at the same time I know she appreciated having me as her reliable safety net.
I go out all the time with my cis girlfriends and its just natural. I just don't know any TS in my city. Going out with them has been very educational and they all constantly help me behave, makeup,hair and clothes. I have befriended a great TS who will visit me in Bangkok and I plan to give her a complete makeover.... it relativly inexpensive here. Then we are hitting the town and I dont feel that it would be any different than with my girls.
I've always said the easiest way to get clocked is by being seen with other trans women.
I go out with and counsel lots of girls starting their journey.
I will take them shopping if they wish, I will give them advice, if they wish.
I am in no way at all ashamed of being with people of any gender or sexual orientation. People are people.
We all start somewhere, and on occasion, I'm privileged to be at the start of a new persons exciting beginning of their new life.
As far as I am concerned it is an honour to have that privilege and it is not an honour to be dismissed.
Quote from: Cindy on June 20, 2015, 03:38:31 AM
As far as I am concerned it is an honour to have that privilege and it is not an honour to be dismissed.
^^^
THIS
I haven't yet had that honor, but I've answered lots of questions and tried to make myself available for those who are just starting out. It's the least I could do to pay back the people who were there for me when I was starting out.
Quote from: Cindy on June 20, 2015, 03:38:31 AM
I go out with and counsel lots of girls starting their journey.
I will take them shopping if they wish, I will give them advice, if they wish.
I am in no way at all ashamed of being with people of any gender or sexual orientation. People are people.
We all start somewhere, and on occasion, I'm privileged to be at the start of a new persons exciting beginning of their new life.
As far as I am concerned it is an honour to have that privilege and it is not an honour to be dismissed.
So true, Cindy.
I told my job that if anyone else comes out as trans that I would be willing to offer a helping hand and a shoulder to cry on. I consider it an honor to help a sister or brother find their true selves, as others have done for me.
As I am involved in the work of the biggest trans* organization in the area it is "part of the job" to go out with various trans* people and encourage them to go out.
Sometimes some of them do not fit the stereotypical gender binary for whatever reason so people notice them.
My only concern is to keep them safe and happy when we are out.
I know how hard it was for me to take the first steps and I'm happy to help anyone who needs a little encouragement to move forward. It is so good to see when all these people realize that they don't have to hide in the corner and that they can happy being out and themselves.
Quote from: Nicole on June 20, 2015, 03:25:38 AM
I've always said the easiest way to get clocked is by being seen with other trans women.
That's maybe true in some cases but not always.
We were out with my girlfriend and two other girls(we are all MtF) and one of them did something stupid which caught the attention of two foreign big guys so they came over there and started to yell at us in broken English and told us if it would ever happen again they would beat us.
The situation quickly calmed down but they wouldn't leave us alone and started to ask questions.
Soon they asked why are these
two boys are wearing women's clothes. They tried to explain them that they are transgender without much success. The two guys never realized that we are trans* as well, we were just ordinary girls in their eyes even though we are far from perfect ourselves.
I did, a few months ago, go out "on the town" with two other people. One was a transwoman (not on HRT at the time), the other CIS female, and I was in male mode. We went to a restaurant to eat, and then to a trans-friendly nightclub here. Unfortunately, the transwoman had been drinking earlier and was literally outing herself as we ate at the bar in the restaurant. In that semi-drunk loud voice she kept asking us other two "do I look like a woman? and proclaiming "I have it down..I look like a woman! etc. It drew some looks at the bar. But not a big scene. I guess I was more annoyed that she was drunk and acting obnoxious than anything else (I'm a non-drinker) That was the only part that bothered me really. It didn't occur to me there, but I wondered later, if the event didn't errantly get me clocked as a transmale. But that didn't bother me either.
Of course the club was fine, and I just kicked back with my diet coke, but at one point she did ...now being even more drunk.. make a sexual advance to me, which I had to pleasantly decline. That bothered me mostly because I was afraid I had hurt her feelings. (but I bet she didn't even remember it the next day) It's not a trans-phobia thing tho. I just don't feel anything more than friendship with this particular individual.
I guess the point I'm making with this post, is that for me it seems that how a person acts matters more than what they look like. Next bold step for me is to go out as Marly, but hopefully not with someone who has been drinking all afternoon before. :)
I was in such situation.Yes,people starred at us but I would do it again for my friend.The only concern is safety,so I would avoid dark streets without people.
I have been in that position and I am very comfortable with myself so even if I spot the look, I don't feel it applies to me. Years of being in the public means I don't fear the public and if I remain comfortable the viewer will always have doubt in their mind. On the other hand the person I am with may get uncomfortable drawing interest and confirming the viewer's suspicions but isn't that why we do this in the first place? Now I do have limits as to were I would take such a person. If I have a place such as work where I am not out, then we don't go there but there are many other places we can go.
In my minimal experience, the passers just mingle with cis-friends.
The non-passers go to gay bars and support groups.
I think the most awesome trans people do both :P
Quote from: Ⓥ on June 20, 2015, 03:38:58 PM
In my minimal experience, the passers just mingle with cis-friends.
The non-passers go to gay bars and support groups.
I think the most awesome trans people do both :P
I have seen the same thing. Even though a pass extremely well, one of the reasons I do go to support groups is to help others. It's my way of giving back to the community that helped me when I started out. I've been able to help others with things from confidence to name and gender maker changes. Gay bars are fun if there is dancing, but I don't care for drinking, but I do enjoy hanging out with people.
I just want to find some cheerful people.
Had great success in gay/bi community and had lotsa fun
trans a tad harder but I get that, it isn't easy.
I don't know any trans :'( but i'd be so proud that they are out and themselves.
Passing can go blow one!
I'm used to people giving me looks haha
It feels encouraging and empowering to hear from so many of you who are not hung up on the status and appearance vs the need for supporting each other and understanding the diversity within our own community.
Our Lower Columbia Gender Alliance had a social at our place last night with people of all kinds just sharing food, ping pong and a walk down the trail. One of the best aspects of this, for me, is to recognize the different journeys we are on and the progress we make by simply sharing a laugh around the fire.
Community rocks!
I never met any transgender person who was new - it's either people who are done with transition and just living their lives, or nontransitioners or people who were before everything and were not taking any steps. Though, I have to admit that if I was asked to go out with transpeople - passable or not - I would think that offer over and oer and be quite hesitant... being trans is just a medical condition, just like Asperger, ADHD or hundreds of others.... it does not mean that just because someone else is trans too, we should hang out together.
Certainly not but they flock to forums just like anyone else, be it out of curiosity or out of social needs
Everyone wants to belong somewhere :P
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on June 21, 2015, 11:23:50 AM
being trans is just a medical condition, just like Asperger, ADHD or hundreds of others.... it does not mean that just because someone else is trans too, we should hang out together.
Hey Emily,
I write no prescriptions for anyone else or the life they lead. No should about it. Some of us are just a lot more social than others. I grew up in a family of 15 and love having people around. I can also spend days comfortably alone but I needed to learn that. I also find I learn so much more from those who have traveled a different path and are willing to share.
Community is what we make for ourselves and need not be an invitation only event ;D
On the flip side of this question; I have also been the "new" one and been out with the T Girls of Portland. Some of them can make me feel like a total slacker with the amount of work they put in to their presentations. Different strokes for different folks ;D
I also notice one my bothers tends to walk and stand a lot farther apart from me now and I think that is sort of funny. Trans may be a medical condition to some but it is not inherited or particularly infectious ;D ;D
Quote from: Tessa James on June 21, 2015, 11:36:45 AM
Hey Emily,
I write no prescriptions for anyone else or the life they lead. No should about it. Some of us are just a lot more social than others. I grew up in a family of 15 and love having people around. I can also spend days comfortably alone but I needed to learn that. I also find I learn so much more from those who have traveled a different path and are willing to share.
Community is what we make for ourselves and need not be an invitation only event ;D
Indeed so, but I could hardly describe the environment I am in as having any sort of community. We just had the Europride event and the workshop about transgender issues was largely attended by LGB folks. Which is kind of self-evident in terms of description. I tried several times to come up with something but I am tired of trying to be one person's orchestra when it comes to transgender activism. If nobody needs those efforts then so be it. Sorry to sound too harsh, but that is the reality for me.
Or maybe I am this way because I learned everything myself through mistakes and trials -people here either tried to scam me from money by offering prescriptions, or gave wrong sorts of advise, or openly made offers of favours in exchange for sex.
I gladly accept and support all of my trans brothers and sister when out no matter what level they are at or passibility. To do any less is to deny their struggles, pain and Dysphoria. I ever see anyone I know who is trans who DOES NOT support them I will call you out publicly. We have all been there!
I can only imagine what it feels like to be on your side of the pond and eastern Europe. Thanks for being a vanguard girl!
Some one is always first. I recall trying a weak and failed transition in the early 90s here and found no other transgender transtioners around. Cool crossdressers yes, but no therapists, medical people or "out" transgender people were obvious to me then. Hopefully the numbers of visible and supportive people will grow. Whether we are out or not the demographics suggest WE are here.
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on June 21, 2015, 11:52:02 AM
I gladly accept and support all of my trans brothers and sister when out no matter what level they are at or passibility. To do any less is to deny their struggles, pain and Dysphoria. I ever see anyone I know who is trans who DOES NOT support them I will call you out publicly. We have all been there!
Welcome back you shy lady ;D ;D I see you on FB but appreciate your presence here.
Quote from: Tessa James on June 21, 2015, 11:55:45 AM
Welcome back you shy lady ;D ;D I see you on FB but appreciate your presence here.
Thanks Tessa! Things just seem different here now. Maybe it is just me. I lurk more than anything now. :)
I don't go out with anyone trans these days, none that are near where I live that I can stand being around for very long and its not because they are trans, its because they are just not my type of person to hang around with. But I don't think I would worry as I would likely be the "less passable" one.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on June 21, 2015, 11:45:43 AM
Or maybe I am this way because I learned everything myself through mistakes and trials -people here either tried to scam me from money by offering prescriptions, or gave wrong sorts of advise, or openly made offers of favours in exchange for sex.
Way harsh! Sorry about that stuff. You do seem to be rising above all that and I know we can find a balm for every bruise if we try.
Quote from: marsh monster on June 21, 2015, 12:35:32 PM
I don't go out with anyone trans these days, none that are near where I live that I can stand being around for very long and its not because they are trans, its because they are just not my type of person to hang around with.
Yes, a butthead is not much fun whether transgender or not ;)
Quote from: Tessa James on June 21, 2015, 12:40:18 PM
Yes, I butthead is not much fun whether transgender or not ;)
well, I don't care much for people who only want to be your friend when they need something from you, otherwise, they have no use for you. Those sorts of people I avoid like the plaque.
I have gone out with less passable girls and that has caused some clocking of us both. No big deal.
I really don't care, we are just doing our thing and it's the other peoples issue. I consider it a personal failure to refuse to help someone out thats not very far along in the journey just because of a potential issue with passing.
I am not ashamed of being trans. There's nothing wrong with it and I don't mind if I get to be "the pretty one" when out and about with other transwomen. Clocked? WGASA. It's part of life. I have better things to worry about because I just assume everyone knows. If you don't notice that I'm trans, then that's OK too.
Maybe the posted question or my comments seem less supportive than i feel. To be clear, i am proudly out and no better than anyone else. We may be farther along or in a different place than someone new. Perhaps it is best to offer no suggestions for new people unless they ask but i like to think there are ways to be tactful too.?
We may have also been the ones who have suffered the ignominious comments from fashionistas . So this can cut both ways, no judgement intended :D
I think for many people, being not passable is not something they can do much about. I mean, you can't change your bones without surgery. FFS is a LOT of money. A lot of trans girls are poor, or simply not rich. I get that. I'm not rich either.
I am not out to judge trans people or even cis people. I like good kindhearted people. I also like fun, badass people. As long as you don't judge.
There are a few trans girls (not here) that I know IRL that I would never go out with. That's because their attitude sucks. Not toward life but toward me. Why would I waste my time with negative people?
Quote from: iKate on June 22, 2015, 01:05:12 PM
I think for many people, being not passable is not something they can do much about.
Too true and yet some of us do like to learn and share those tips that might make a little difference for someone. Doing so in a kind and tactful manner helps.
Quote from: iKate on June 22, 2015, 01:05:12 PM
Why would I waste my time with negative people?
IDK, unless there is some glimmer of hope, we may just be fanning the breeze :D
Couldn't care, because if I'm out with someone, it's because I like them for who they are - not what they look like. My cis friends don't judge me or decide whether they want to be seen with me based on my passability, that seems to be something that is restricted to other trans women. And any trans woman who judges me by that standard is not going to be my friend.
Quote from: kelly_aus on June 22, 2015, 07:34:27 PM
Couldn't care, because if I'm out with someone, it's because I like them for who they are - not what they look like. My cis friends don't judge me or decide whether they want to be seen with me based on my passability, that seems to be something that is restricted to other trans women. And any trans woman who judges me by that standard is not going to be my friend.
And making friends is a process that could start with going out with someone new and finding out what they are about. Use of the regrettably loaded term "passable" need not be short hand for judging others. We do learn by comparing the known to the unknown. I'm trying to learn better ways to share information and support new people, not to judge or provoke anyone :angel:
I don't think about it. I don't have a problem regardless of the passability of someone. Hugs
Mariah