How would one know if they identify as androgyne or male/female?
-InBetween
Knowing if you identify as androgyne is difficult to explain. For myself, I first had to admit that I do not identify as male. Then I struggled to identify as female, but found I don't identify as female either. I relate better to females, but I don't identify that way.
I am uncomfortable appearing even moderately masculine or overly feminine.
That's all I have for now, I guess.
Rebis
lil of both some ppl see me as female others as male i am ok with the body i was born in but i aslo like to been seen as female i am aslo ok with been seen as male.
One way I look at it for myself, is that I have never wanted nor thought that I belong to either gender exclusively. When I was young my identity was blurred and felt more ungendered at times, or mixed gendered. I longed to be intersexed also. I still feel the same.
Now androgyne is a blanket term for several types of TG. The faq https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,9148.0.html has some definitions and the discovery section has some personal experiences. The information there might be helpful. Feel free to ask about anything, or add on to all those posts.
This is a bit of a tough question because what someone considers male or female gender is based on societies norms for each and influenced by an individuals own perspective. Given that society continues to change you can admit that the definitions are changing as well. That having been covered, if you feel you match one of those two gender definitions, you identify with that gender. Now if you don't feel either one is a close enough match to you, you're probably going to want to consider the next option, which is somewhere inbetween.
As you could imagine though, inbetween is quite a gap and entails so many other gender identities of which you'll have to explore each one until one of them fits enough for you to be comfortable with it. Don't expect to just know because sometimes it takes time to zone in on the right area. Explore how you feel and you'll find people similiar to you that will help you to narrow it down till you find the right spot for you. Patience is very important and get as much help as you can so you don't do this journey alone.
Best of luck with your journey and make sure you ask any of us all the questions you can think of. We'll answer them as best we can.
Marq and Mia
Quote from: InBetween on September 06, 2007, 07:03:52 PM
How would one know if they identify as androgyne or male/female?
-InBetween
Its just a decision you make based upon your over all outlook. You feel you are uncomfortable with the gender that society places upon you but you are also comfortable with it to an extent, as well as the other (opposite?) gender. Were you of male physical sex it wouldn't feel quite right, but you also realize that if you were to suddenly become female physical sex that wouldn't feel completly right either. My best friend puts it like this: an androgyne will never feel fully right in their sex, but it also wouldn't make sense to change it because it would be the same problem all over again; theres no total solution. All we can do is get as comfortable as we can with who we are.
I summarised it in my head as feeling like a male, but not male enough to idnetify one and feeling like a female, but not female enough to identify one. I would actually say I am pre-gender.
Quote from: Pica Pica on September 07, 2007, 09:49:57 AM
I summarised it in my head as feeling like a male, but not male enough to idnetify one and feeling like a female, but not female enough to identify one. I would actually say I am pre-gender.
Thats an interesting way of thinking about it. :)
I've found that KNOWING I'm an androgyne (and I do, now ;)) has been a long process. But like everybody who's replied so far, I recognized that there were certain aspects of myself that plain didn't fit under the category "man". It's kind of like being a dog who buries bones and barks but also bats balls of string and "stalks" its toys. It's not about being defined by or confined by the standard notions of male and female; it's about having too much of both to really consider yourself one or the other. There is some grey in most people. But while other people accent their lives with grey, androgynes buy a plot of land and live there.
Quote from: Casey on September 07, 2007, 01:27:58 PM
There is some grey in most people. But while other people accent their lives with grey, androgynes buy a plot of land and live there.
I like that too. ^_^
I'd say that the very act of asking that question answers it, to a degree. There are many people who feel absolutely certain they are male or they are female-- regardless of their biology, of course. If you have to wonder, that's sounds like you fit more in the andogynous range, for now. That doesn't mean that at some future time you'll decide your more one way than the other, and there's nothing wrong with that. There are not stone tablets that say you must consider yourself an androgyne as opposed to a MtF or whatever. I've found in my own experience that rather than looking for a social category to place myself in, it was better to just to feel out what I like and want and, frankly, I've never felt comfortable with being catagorized.
---Lyric
"Gender" as distinct from biological sex is a set of social constructs, not a natural given. When I realized that I did not fit (and did not want to fit) the socially constructed norm of what a man or a woman is and ought to be, then I realized that I was androgynous.
Honestly, the best way to figure out if you are androgyne or something else is to just think about it. It may take a long time, but once you consider all of the possible options, you'll know what is right. At first, I had no idea that there even was such a thing as androgyne, but I knew that I wasn't like other girls, so I thought I might be transgendered. But then again, when I thought about how I would feel if I were a boy, I realized that I wasn't exactly male either. After a great deal of thought and research, I finally realized that I was androgyne. As soon as I thought "I am androgyne", it was like a weight was lifted off.
Mostly, you just KNOW. :)
Quote from: Kaimialana on September 07, 2007, 09:58:24 AM
Quote from: Pica Pica on September 07, 2007, 09:49:57 AM
I summarised it in my head as feeling like a male, but not male enough to idnetify one and feeling like a female, but not female enough to identify one. I would actually say I am pre-gender.
Thats an interesting way of thinking about it. :)
I sometimes wish I never went through puberty at all. I was so much more my self, solid, connected, and full of passion when I was younger. I could've done ANYTHING I sometimes think. I mourn those days. I feel corrupt and full of excuses very often.
Quote from: deviousxen on September 09, 2007, 02:50:37 AM
I sometimes wish I never went through puberty at all. I was so much more my self, solid, connected, and full of passion when I was younger. I could've done ANYTHING I sometimes think. I mourn those days. I feel corrupt and full of excuses very often.
same here :'(
Yes, androgyne does lift a weight off my chest. However, now that I am dressing more masculine, I definitely want to look like a boy, and sound like one. I am starting to wonder if the only reason I thought maybe androgyne instead of male is that I was raised female. I was made to dress very feminine by my mother, but I always HATED dresses. I think the only time I ever minimally enjoyed wearing a dress was at Prom, and that was only because people kept complimenting. It wasn't ME.
I am realizing how comfortable I feel in men's clothing. Maybe it's just the soft fabrics...I don't know. But there seems to be a real ease about it, which also is partly due to not having to wear make-up, or really do too much other than the basics for hygene. Yeah, I guess there is a word that I need to use, but I can't find it...it just...feels good. Everything about it (other than some sad or disapproving faces) feels really nice. I only wish I knew how to use more of a masculine tone....I just am too afraid I'll mess up, so I usually don't. I have been speaking to people in public much less than I ever did, just because I want to appear male, but don't quite know how right now.
The other thing that might be inhibiting my masculinity/androgynity is my long hair, and especially my girly face (other than my thick eyebrows, which do help a bit).
-Merrick
So maybe a question you should be asking(not sure if this was mentioned) is do you feel like any part of you is feminine? You make reference to dressing and acting masculine feels right which is fine. The question is do you feel like thats all that makes you feel right?
Theres nothing wrong with being an Androgyne and dressing entirely like male, female, somewhere inbetween or something completely different. How we present ourselves outwardly can be different then how we act or feel inside. Just remember that. Feel out how you want to look and act and that will give you a better picture.
Marq and Mia
For me, adopting the androgyne label was both a comfort and a process of elimination.
Elimination because I knew I wasn't a man but I also knew I wasn't a woman either...more of a combination of both. I wondered if the crossdresser label fit better than androgyne, but after a good deal of soul-searching decided that it didn't. Same for transsexual...I have a strong desire to live as a woman, (but have no desire for SRS or hormones), but I know in my heart that I am not one...guess I'm just a mess. I know I fall under the Transgendered umbrella and the only category broad enough is Androgyne.
After struggling with "What am I?", finding a place to call home (genderly speaking) was a great comfort. Finding others that felt similar let me know that I wasn't strange or "disturbed" (well, I wouldn't want to put that to a vote, but within my own mind I'm OK).
Quote from: InBetween (Merrick-Scott) on September 09, 2007, 03:50:36 PM
I am starting to wonder if the only reason I thought maybe androgyne instead of male is that I was raised female.
Same story but in reverse...still, I spent an awful lot of time with my mom learning to cook, wash clothes, and clean house. Heck, my sister is more of a man than I am...she took karate, drinks beer and never seems to worry if the people at work like her. I watched Kung Fu, drink Diet Coke and notice every strange look they give me.
QuoteI am realizing how comfortable I feel in men's clothing. Maybe it's just the soft fabrics...I don't know. But there seems to be a real ease about it, which also is partly due to not having to wear make-up, or really do too much other than the basics for hygiene. Yeah, I guess there is a word that I need to use, but I can't find it...it just...feels good. Everything about it (other than some sad or disapproving faces) feels really nice.
Funny, I never thought "men's clothing" and "soft fabrics" went together. Dress shirts with heavy starch, blue jeans that don't stretch (no spandex) and absolutely nothing "silky". Still, the overall looser fit and grunge-factor can be comfortable. Remember, the use of fabric softener on your guy clothes is a sure sign you are "whipped". ;)
......Laurry
It's been a lifelong process. From childhood, I never felt male, but lived with it for years. In my mid 30s I transitioned M2F and lived RLT for a year, and came to the realization that I wasn't really female either. It was during that time that I started identifying as neither. Many more years went by until I met others who feel as I do who identified as androgyne, and that seemed to fit. In many ways, I'm still figuring it all out :)
zythyra
Quote from: Laurry on September 10, 2007, 04:26:33 AM
After struggling with "What am I?", finding a place to call home (genderly speaking) was a great comfort. Finding others that felt similar let me know that I wasn't strange or "disturbed" (well, I wouldn't want to put that to a vote, but within my own mind I'm OK).
......Laurry
Strange, I don't recall any of us ever telling you that you weren't strange or disturbed.
Hmmmmmm.
Quote from: InBetween (Merrick-Scott) on September 09, 2007, 03:50:36 PM
I am starting to wonder if the only reason I thought maybe androgyne instead of male is that I was raised female.
I can understand that, except my situation is more like Laurry's in reverse. I was the oldest grandchild and only girl among several boys and I was really pushed into being a tomboy. No one ever bought me cute clothes or dolls, really. I was really the only girl in a world of boys. Even my friends at school were boys. I didn't usually play with the girls.
I have wondered at times if only being with boys affected me at all, but in the end, I don't think so. I would be me no matter what. :)
Yes, I do feel like there is a feminine part to me too.
-Merrick-Scott
Herein always lies the problem, origins. No matter how you talk about it, it always seems to be hitting a nerve.
Quote from: Jaimey on September 11, 2007, 04:06:25 PM
Quote from: InBetween (Merrick-Scott) on September 09, 2007, 03:50:36 PM
I am starting to wonder if the only reason I thought maybe androgyne instead of male is that I was raised female.
I can understand that, except my situation is more like Laurry's in reverse. I was the oldest grandchild and only girl among several boys and I was really pushed into being a tomboy. No one ever bought me cute clothes or dolls, really. I was really the only girl in a world of boys. Even my friends at school were boys. I didn't usually play with the girls.
I have wondered at times if only being with boys affected me at all, but in the end, I don't think so. I would be me no matter what. :)
its interesting though
Hi, I'm new and I would like to ask a question. I think this thread is the right place to do it:
For obvious reason, there was talked a lot about "identifying as man/woman" but I absolutely cannot conceive of this concept...
What does it mean to identify as a specific gender? Does it mean one is content (or not) with the anatomical equipment one was born with? And that one takes pride in the things one can do with it? (Giving birth, peeing while standing, etc.)
Or does it mean one is comfortable (or not) with the socially constructed gender role that goes with that equipment? (There are so many people who completely defy any gender roles and nevertheless identify appropriately to their nature-given sex.)
Or is it a mixture of both?
Somebody said earlier that sex was natural, but gender is just socially constructed. Well, the exact gender roles surely are, but I think gender has to be more complicated. I mean what about transsexuals?
To me, being born with the wrong body makes more sense than suddenly *believing* to be born with the wrong body because of a social construct.
Good subject. I did recognize a some things wrotten by different people. But most of all I did recognize this part. Except ;In my situation you could replace the words male as female, female as male
Quote from: Rebis on September 06, 2007, 07:20:00 PM
Knowing if you identify as androgyne is difficult to explain. For myself, I first had to admit that I do not identify as male. Then I struggled to identify as female, but found I don't identify as female either. I relate better to females, but I don't identify that way.
I am uncomfortable appearing even moderately masculine or overly feminine.
That's all I have for now, I guess.
Rebis
I will try to explain my thoughts and experiences. As child t the age of 2, 5 years old. I was playing " the dukes of Hazard". And I always want to be the blond one in the game :), Bo. I had no idea that that that was not possible or what.
At the same age I can remember that my mother ( not gay) did had some female and male acquaintances that were gay.
( I am 30 now) So whenn I was going to school, I was shocked that it was not everywhere accepted.
Most of my friends at early age were boys. Later some girls. Friendships with girl , I had the feeling that it was better or expected to hang around with girls.
About my toys; starwars, never dolls but I did Like dogs, bears of pluche and they the same things with them like others did with dolls ( my real pets now are reliefed that I don't threat them like my pluche pets ;D ;D ;) )
On friday afternoon at school ( 8/9 years old) we did some acts like playbacking; I was dress up like George Michael a lot and sometimes Madonna. Never analyze that for me it was just the 2 I would love to be.
Later whenn I've found out that I had not much in common with the most people in my life.I started to think about it. during my search and on my way, I just came to the same conclusion as Rebis
In between, like the topicstarter wrote , is for me a good descripion. I don't like to labe people and also not label myself. Androgyne ; is a too big label. Cause I read a lot different experiences. Of course each one does have his own experiences. Male/ Female is too complicated. I know I do have have the most in common with people that are calling themself androgyne.
But I like in BETWEEN
It is difficult to know. For me, I knew what I wasn't. I am biologically female, but to me, that's just plumbing. I do not relate to women well at all. When I was younger, most of my friends were boys. As I got older, I became friends with girls, but I was always in groups where there were boys and girls. None of my female friends were overly feminine and none of my guy friends were "macho" types. We were all kind of in the middle. I used to think that I might be transgendered, but when I tried to imagine myself as a man, I knew that didn't feel right either.
Basically, I've always known that I wasn't like other people, male or female. Once I read up on what it meant to be androgyne, I knew that's what I was.
Also, to me, your sex is just plumbing. I use the women's restroom because that's the body I have. Gender identity is definitely more complex, but to oversimplify it a little, think June Cleaver (in the past) and someone like Jennifer Lopez or Julia Roberts (for a modern referene) versus a guy like Sylvester Stallone. I guess the social constructs of gender identity have a lot to do with ideals. The ideal woman versus ideal man and you relate to those ideals. There is a poll/topic on here (I can't remember the title) that used a football field to define gender. You've got Stallone in one end zone and Paris Hilton in the other. Androgyne would (theoretically) be in the exact center.
I hope I could help a little. :)