When will that hate end? When will people understand LGBTI community?
Quote from: fluttershy1617 on June 29, 2015, 02:12:28 PM
When will that hate end? When will people understand LGBTI community?
Although it will never end, I think there will come a time when those who hate us will be marginalized.
When will that time come?
Easy question to answer. It will come when we take it upon ourselves to educate folks about who we are and why we do what we do.
It's decreasing very rapidly. As someone who has been an LGBT activist since right after Stonewall, the changes in society's perceptions and attitudes are nothing short of astonishing to me. Things are happening which I never expected to see in my lifetime, and the pace of change seems to be accelerating.
Is it a perfect world? Far from it; there will always be haters. But, um, yeah... it's getting better. A lot better. If you want to know what things were like in the "bad old days" before Stonewall, I recommend Leslie Feinberg's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Feinberg) autobiographical novel, Stone Butch Blues. It's out of print, but you can borrow it from the Open Library (https://openlibrary.org/borrow). (Feinberg's non-fiction book, Transgender Warriors, is still in print and is also available from the same source.)
It is decreasing but it may not look like it for a few reasons the first being visibility its so easy for anyone with a idea to make sure everyone sees it in some cases this is a good thing but it also allows those full of hate to spread there message far and wide and makes them look far larger and stronger than they appear. Second when someone is ok with something or even a general level of approval they tend to be quiet about it but when someone hates something they are usually very very visible about it, and third those who oppose the LGBT community or really any minority tend to get very defensive when they see how things are going against them so like a cornered animal they lash out more and more violently.
sorry about the block of text.
Serena
Definitely decreasing but the more attention is given to it positively the more negative comes along with it, seems to be a trending item in movies etc nowadays as well, like gays used to be hot in the 90's to use in movies.
Generally I would say as time passes it decreases as the general public is slowly becoming more tolerant. However it also depends on where you live and the people you surround yourself with. My family is extremely accepting and I currently live with my girlfriend surrounded by friend which means I rarely face homophobia or transphobia. So overall it varies.
I would say it's slowly decreasing in size, but those who still hate are becoming more desperate due to their shrinking numbers and are becoming more hateful and violent.
It's definitely decreasing as more people are becoming educated about the LGBTQ community and many of the people, especially in the evangelical Christian right are not so much haters as they are ignorant of LGBTQ people. They've been taught that gender and sexuality are black and white issues. We use the rainbow as a symbol because of the diversity in the community. They don't understand that for the vast majority of us, gender identity and sexual orientation are not choices. Yes there are haters so it is always wise to be on guard, but most of the vocal opposition to us is simply because they don't know any better. Many will come to understand as the LGBTQ community becomes even more mainstream and they get to know more gays, lesbians and transgender folk. Will all? No, but it will keep getting better. Have hope.
It is decreasing a lot, but will we ever live in a time where there is no homophobia/transphobia whatsoever? I don't know. We still have racists, we still have misogynists, etc. But like everyone else is saying, once the view of accepting the LGBT+ community becomes a majority, those who oppose it will be less and less of a problem.
In my opinion, it seems as though the homophobia will end much faster than the transphobia. This may or may not be true, but that's just what I'm guessing based on some of my own observations
QuoteIn my opinion, it seems as though the homophobia will end much faster than the transphobia. This may or may not be true, but that's just what I'm guessing based on some of my own observations
Activism around homophobia has been going on for well over half a century, if you consider "homophile" groups like the Mattachine Society (founded in 1950) and the Daughters of Bilitis (1953). So that's been an active movement for quite a while. Historically, transgender activism has been very closely linked with gay activism until fairly recently; there has been an independent trans rights movement for only a very few years.
It seems to me that the rate of change in public attitudes toward trans folks is much faster right now than it was for gays and lesbians -- we're catching up pretty darn fast, IMHO.
It's decreased a little. Because of the increased visibility of trans people the haters will lash out. Not totally unexpected. I believe many more people have become educated about what transgender people go through and are about. Another thing that has helped is that we are sharing our own stories.
:)
I feel like it's a situation where the phobia is decreasing, but the remaining members of society who still feel that way are getting louder to cover up how small their numbers and influence are.
It's probably decreasing - the problem is that the remaining haters are continually turning the volume and hysteria up.
I think there are more people on the side of acceptance and tolerance than there used to be, the problem is that people who are not accepting are becoming more reactionary as GSM rights advance. There are two problems here aside from the usual discrimination, poverty, violence, and health problems in the trans community. The first is that bigots have a lot of political power in this country, and can use it to not only stall progress, but to actively inflict pain on trans community. The second is that things are changing, a lot over past few years. In the long run, bigots are losing, and they are losing significant battles and becoming more marginalized. You have angry people who subscribe to extreme religious philosophies who are losing battles that they perceive to be extremely important. This a recipe for violence. We
Homophobia and transphobia are on the decline. The process is moving fast with respect to homophobia. Lots of barriers (serving in the military, same-sex marriage) that seemed set in stone twenty years ago have fallen in just the last several years. Though it may seem slow to individuals in their everyday lives, this is all happening in the blink of an eye in historical terms.
Transphobia is following the same trajectory but is not as far along the same curve yet. There's a lot of work remaining to be done.
Why is it taking longer for transphobia to decline? I think it's a matter of visibility. One thing the gay rights movement emphasized strongly was the need to come out and be visible. In the 1950s and 60s, it was really tough to step out of the closet and into the open. People lost jobs, security clearances, family relationships. Some went to prison. Some lost their lives. We owe a lot to the courage of those who were first to step forward.
As more and more gay and lesbian people came out, it began to seem less outlandish to the straight world. In the eyes of the straight world, the image of gay people slowly began to change from the pulp fiction villainy most people imagined and started to assume the face of people they actually knew: coworkers, friends, family members.
If you've never met anyone gay, it's easy to denounce gay people as sinners and perverts and say they deserve no rights. But if you actually know a number of gay people, it's pretty hard to believe that your nice lesbian cousin is evil and shouldn't be allowed to marry her girlfriend. As more and more gay folks came out, the momentum increased and the barriers started to fall.
As I said, transphobia is on the same curve. It's just not as far along the track. One story in the news you might look at is the current one about the bathroom bill just passed in South Dakota. When it hit the Governor's desk for signature, he scratched his head and wondered whether to sign. He said, "I've never met any transgender people."
Actually, I doubt that. I imagine even in South Dakota he probably has met trans people, but he just didn't realize it. But he was expressing the same idea I outlined above with respect to gay people. If you don't know any trans people, it's easy to imagine them as perverted or evil and conclude they need to be suppressed or outlawed.
To his credit, that Governor took the time to meet with transgender people opposing the bill. I don't know whether it will be enough to make the difference on that specific legislation, but I think you see what I'm talking about. It's easy to discriminate against nameless, faceless people you don't know. It's harder to discriminate against actual people you meet and engage with face to face.
Part of the reason that transphobia is declining more slowly than homophobia is a matter of numbers. There's a lot of us, but we're still pretty rare. There are probably 40 or 50 million people in the US that fit under some part of the LGBT umbrella. But maybe only one or two million trans people. (It's really hard to get accurate estimates.)
Adding to our lack of visibility is the fact that trans folks sometimes just "disappear." While trans folks may be very visible during the period of gender transition, many who make the transition successfully just blend in and disappear into the cis world afterwards. There are plenty of trans folks who have done exactly that. Cis people may be working in the same office as a trans person for years without having any idea.
Although both homophobia and transphobia are on the decline, they are still alive and still dangerous. Homophobia and transphobia are being actively cultivated for political advantage by right-wing ideologues seeking the support of bigoted and fearful voters. And also for religious motives by fundamentalists seeking to reshape the world according to their superstitions and prejudices.
Definitely decreasing from my standpoint, Part of it is liberalization and a less religious society and part of it is just youth.
Quote from: fluttershy1617 on June 29, 2015, 02:12:28 PM
When will that hate end? When will people understand LGBTI community?
Look at racism, sexism, etc. Same thing. It will chill out but there's gonna be regions where it's a bit more common.
Its definitely decreasing, unfortunately this means that the haters who know they are on the losing side of history are becoming more vocal in their efforts to smear us, their claims are becoming more absurd as they know that rational arguments are so easily dismantled with proven science.
Quote from: Jayne on February 29, 2016, 01:34:11 PM
Its definitely decreasing, unfortunately this means that the haters who know they are on the losing side of history are becoming more vocal in their efforts to smear us, their claims are becoming more absurd as they know that rational arguments are so easily dismantled with proven science.
Same thing happened with all sorts of racism thought history. Modern media likes to exaggerate these final efforts and make it look so much worse than it actually is. All the time they flip out about a white cop shoots a black dude (I'm some areas at least), even if it had nothing to do with them being two different races. There will probably be similar types of media with homosexuals in the next few years.
I think homophobia is decreasing, at least that is what I see in the conservative south.
The internet has made information & communication available to a wide audience. This has allowed people who have had feelings/thoughts for years to explore/share these thoughts/feelings in a private manner (internet). It's not a coincidence that the spread of home computers in the last 20 years has coincide with breakthroughs in rights for the LGBT movement.
individuals who feel like a pariah draw strength from others who feel the same way. There is strength in numbers, & the internet has helped to make this possible.
I think it really depends on the location. For instance my parents are Russian and I'd say the hate has increased because of the Propoganda law which brainwashes them and the new programmes which state that transgender people don't exist. So unfortunately, it really depends on the location.
Social media and the internet help some...education is helping but IMO there is a long way to go, and it depends on the Geo you are talking about. Different Geo's are far more accepting, others not accepting at all. Just in the U.S. you can see the division lines. In the state where I live, certain places are more accepting (mileage may vary), other places not at all. So how do we fight it. People need to start loving and caring versus hating and pushing out dated belief systems.
Personally I believe only knowledge can defeat ignorance. No matter how much we tell people there is medical evidence for trans conditions and that we are not inherently harmful to society, those who are not interested in the truth or facts will reject our validity as people.
So I think the question to ask is... is the world interested in moving forward via truth and facts, or is it interested in burying its head in the sand, remaining in denial in order to maintain its "old truths" and habits? Some parts of the world and some societies are most definitely more interested in facts and progress than others, and their reasons for doing so can be complex. Whether the seekers of scientific truth/change/progress outweigh those that run from it will probably answer your question. To be honest I don't know. It seems some people/groups/nations/relgions etc. are actively fleeing from the facts or the change of incorporating us into society because they fear social breakdown. But on the whole I don't feel the entire world is moving that way. The entire world HAS to begin embracing science and facts if it is going to save itself from the many environmental and social challenges we are beginning to face. Well, either that, or it must accept a large number of people must die before we can go safely back to some self-sustainable Dark Age...
In the southeast US where I live I don't think it's increasing at all. Overall it's probably less than a few years ago. However, the homo/trans phobic portion of the populace that is eternally resistant to changing their belief is getting a whole lot more press and exposure lately. Most people though, while they may dogmatically disagree with the state of being homo or trans, are content to live and let live.
Sapere Aude
I think as a Queer woman, I have noticed more acceptance for us, however, where gays and lesbians were 10 years ago, that is where the Trans community is currently. I really think that lesbians/gays/bisexuals must help our Trans family fight and get acceptance, understanding and the rights that we now have. A lot of it is education, but it's hard to educate when you are afraid to say you are trans/non binary. There is fear and misunderstandings that need to be cleared up and this is where Trans Folk must use their str8 and LGB supporters to help with the process. Sure Trans people must become more visible, and that is really, really, hard(take it from a Queer Femme who grew up in the 80's!, it was awful!) but those of us that do fit a binary and are cisgendered, must make a concerted effort to help with this. After all, it is not the Vegetarians that can change the meat industry, but the meat eaters who DEMAND a change for animals. It is so with the Trans community as well. My .02
Eh, at least here in the US, people are becoming more aware of trans people, but as in history, once a marginalized group becomes more visible, there's still going to be a huge backlash. Whenever I see youtube videos discussing trans issues and such, there's still a good chunk of dislikes on those videos, and it's discouraging to see. As for homophobia, I see it decreasing and people are starting to accept them more. However, ever since gay marriage has become legal, are cis and straight allies act like LGBT issues is over, it's done. But they don't realize in a lot of states that gay and trans people can still get fired just because they're gay or trans or both.
In my view, it looks like things are going to get worse before it gets better regarding trans issues. Hell, we're already dealing with anti-trans bathroom laws in North Carolina and a few other states. Laws that we never had before (at least I thought we didn't have before). Hopefully with more visibility, education, and communication, people will become more understanding and accepting of us. School REALLY need to educate their students the difference between gender and sex because I see that argument come up a lot among cis people.
It's better, but not by a lot. Just like good ole racism not much has changed just politics have shifted to a far leftist point of view where rose colored glasses are put on. It's the same thing, but now decorated.
My humble opinion is that so long as there is a differentiation between 'us' and them then discrimination will prevail. Naturally we all want to just fit into society in a transparent manner, to be treated with the same level of respect that most people enjoy without any stigma or preconceived ideologies about what or who they are. I believe this to be our ultimate goal. But we won't see it in our lifetimes. Our goals then are evolutionary. One step at a time; One battle at a time. And while a lot has changed and been accomplished over the years, make no mistake about it: we still have a long ways to go.
Now I am very mindful of not wanting to marginalize the pain felt from young people of today who traverse the minefield of social acceptance . That being said, the life experience differences are night and day. Back in 1968 I was 8 - 9 years old and was exposed before the entire community I lived in and the school I attended as a freak who liked to wear girl clothes and such. It was unimaginable to the community at large how a boy could think he was a girl. It had to be a mental disorder which in itself had a huge stigma associated with it. It had to be the work of Satan. I was bullied, harassed, beaten up relentlessly while the adults would turn their heads the other way pretending nothing was happening. They stole my school supplies, they threw human faeces at me, pelted me with urine filled balloons, spit in my food and in my face; They even killed my dog by poisoning. I attempted to reach out to the local church for spiritual strength only to be told to pray alone at home; People like me were not welcome in their church. My parents were good people but they were ignorant country folks who grew up in East Texas during the depression. Their solution when it came to this problem of mine was to sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't exist. I think society at the time taught them to be ashamed of me.
With no one showing even a single morsel of empathy for me, Sometime in mid November, 1967 I ate all the Valium (known as Diazepam) from my mother's prescription bottle. The only thing I remember after that is waking up in the hospital. Later a woman who identified herself as a paediatric psychiatrist asked what was going on with me. So I told her. I was told that wanting to be a girl was just a phase I was going through and would grow out of it. She told me she would talk to school officials about my problems at school and that things should go easier for me. Well she was half right at least. I didn't grow out of it but things got a little easier at school. At least I wasn't being persecuted like before; Instead for the next two years or so, I was in a sterile, apathetic environment with a complete and utter lack of care or concern about me. In other words there was an agenda of social shunning being waged against me orchestrated by local religious leaders. The ending of the social shunning against me led to me being forcibly raped by the time I was 12... repeatedly and then subsequently my junior high school days were filled with hearing the schools most popular girls laugh everytime I walked by their group hearing their sneering comments about how creepy and ugly it is ad nauseam. My parents were just so overwhelmed after I told them about the rape(s) they just refused to talk about it or even acknowledge it happened. I was a notorious liar after all..... The evil that men do are not interred with their bones but live on - in the memories of the people they victimized for an entire lifetime. The mindset of that era was that bullying was a normal part of growing up. I was expected to learn how to fend for myself. But I was small in size and all the other kids were much larger than I was. Even the girls would beat me up. I wish I could say that was the extent of my troubles but in reality it was only the beginning.
Aside from the world outside of the USA and the EU, the magnitude of bullying and violence appear to be more frequent but that is due to greater access to information via the news and social media on the internet and thus it would be inevitable to hear of more instances of injustice against us. But in other parts of the world our brothers and sisters face death on a daily basis. Having lived in various places around the world at some time or another, Brazil comes to mind. But even they are making small bits of progress in their struggle for social acceptance, equal justice and fear from being victims of hate crime. But their struggle continues as does ours. And while there are still serious challenges in the days ahead for us all, those challenges are inevitable as our continued progress in the struggle for transparent social acceptance, equitable justice and freedom from prejudice, bigotry and discrimination continue to evolve. If only if we continue to stand united in our cause and set future goals of one day not having any distinguishing characterization made onto those who identify themselves with the gender they were not born with, then and only then will the generations of people who live after us be able to live normal, healthy lives free of fear,discrimination and social stigma. It seems like an impossible dream. But let me tell you that back in 1967 and later the thought that people my age could set goals to transition to the gender they identify with was not even something that I could imagine would ever see the light of day. My regret besides the fact I was a girl born in the body of a boy, is that I wasn't born later in life so that I could have been afforded the opportunity to be what I really am: a girl. If only I could have transitioned when I was a pre-teen. I looked so much like a girl. It would have made all the difference in the life experience that followed. So I am thankful that some children are at least afforded through the advances of science the ability to postpone adolescence. But my heart just grieves for those children and what they are going through especially if they have parents who are not supportive.
And so the struggle continues...
Nikki
Please note that I am a coward. The real heroes and heroines are the ones who had the audacity, strength and the courage to conqueror their fears and live life as the gender they know they are. It is these folks and their courage to continue on in their never ending struggle to be what they are regardless of social pressure or stigmata that foster change and give hope to others who also struggle. What magnificent warriors you all are! I can't help but be in awe at your rebellious courage and I would not ever place myself on equal keel with you. I only wish I had your courage. Shine on! Shine on!
Thank you, Nikki, and welcome!
That story sounds all too familiar. Those of us who grew up in the 1960s and earlier have likely had some rough experiences, from bullying to what passed for therapy back then. You are among friends here, though.
The experience for today's youth in many places is much better than ow it was back then, thank goodness. Society at large still has quite a ways to go, though, particularly in cultures where transphobia is common, and routinely exploited for power and political purposes. I'm convinced that this is changing slowly, though, in spite of the recent backsliding from certain factions.
It has to get better. All humans deserve to be treated humanely.
Welcome to Susan's Place Nikki. You are far from a coward because you attempted to fight the system. Yes, you may not have won the battle but you were in there swinging. In 1968 I was still in the closet and would remain so until about 1974. My first awareness was when I was 13 years old so I had many years to accumulate little bits of information that allowed me to escape much of what you face. The world is a far different place now and if there is anything we can do to help your recover from your difficult past, let us know.
We issue to all new members the following links so you will best be able to use the web site.
Things that you should read
Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By (http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) | Standard Terms & Definitions (http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html) | Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.) |
Reputation rules (http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html) | News posting & quoting guidelines (http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html) | Photo, avatars, & signature images policy (http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866) |