I'm 6'1 with a football player's build. Basically, I'm a giant. I have a round though very masculine looking face, did Virtual FFS and wouldn't you know it - it still looked male, just prettier. When I was 20, I discovered Jennifer Diane Reitz's site. I read about her emotional story, relating to everything. So I decided to go out as a woman. It didn't work. They still sired me, with makeup, with feminine eyebrows, etc. I applied makeup using a virtual makeover program to my computerized feminine face - still looked like a man. Bruce Jenner became a model, Chris Crocker of youtube can slap on the makeup and look like a woman. He got lip implants and doesn't need the makeup now.
To not even pass as an ugly woman with makeup when you feel transsexual is the ultimate horror. I've heard stories of the most beautiful looking MtFs thrown out of the house, rejected, abused, left with no place to live. But to not even look like a deformed woman? Many times I want to trade my face with the ugliest woman in the world, just to be able to speak in my real voice. Just to buy a pair of women's shoes in real life. A former boxer became passable recently, as did a 7 foot tall former basketball player. She's 7 feet tall - I'm much larger boned than her. I don't know how they did, though they did! She looks like a woman.
->-bleeped-<- has been in the news a lot lately, and I feel left out. It's just not right. Is there really any hope for the unpassable, other than meeting people online? My father accepts it, yet he refused to go out in public with me as a woman.
My psychiatrist said outright I was wearing a wig.
Many people don't like the transgendered no matter what - but to be in a completely unfeasible situation. Should we partake in a transgender group, even to make a friend? That's the only thing I can think of. Do transgender groups tend to accept completely unpassable Mtfs?
Some advice on what to do about this quagmire would be helpful. I faced the sea of laughing faces. I'm on disability now due to the anguish this has caused me. I don't want to die, though I don't want to live either. I can't even wear a pink shirt without remarks being made. I'm convinced it's because I'm big.
What should we do? Is there anyone else out there like me? Even one person. :-(
I know a number of transgender women who don't pass and never will.
They are among the happiest women I know. They are thrilled with their transitions, thrilled to be women (and they ARE women. Passability is not a requirement for gender...), and can be quite beautiful. They don't ever worry about whether they are clocked, and most of them report they rarely get misgendered. People can see that they're trans, but most respectful, polite people treat them as the women they are. Yes, people slip with pronouns, but they correct them politely or just let it pass because how people see them doesn't define them.
Hugs, Sydney. I really hope this helps.
Jeez, I would need way more money and surgery than I will ever have or would want to spend to really pass.
that has no bearing on me transitioning and living full time as me.
I have no question when I started or today, that if there is or was anything such as being complete, that I will be anything other than Jerri,
that choice is way better a million times over than the path that other guy that used to hang out in my body choose. everyone has to decide what works best for them and the environment they live in. haters gonna hate no matter if I was the before me or today as me at least as me I can be right in my world
When I was younger, passing was so important to me. Maybe it's part of the reason I shied away from transitioning. Now at 40, I'm not sure how much I care. I just want to be myself. I know my first few outings will be scary and I probably won't pass, but I'm looking forward to it. Remember, part of passing is attitude and confidence. Good luck and hugs!
BTW, I'm 6' with size 13 feet, 300lbs+ and need a wig. I feel for you. But don't write yourself off. I won't. [emoji4]
*edited because what I wrote first was dumb.
It seems you are writing yourself off before you get started. While I believe everyone should indeed be realistic about their appearance you shouldn't let your experiences pre HRT and with minimal dressing and presentation skills (like knowing the best and most appropriate clothes and wigs and makeup for you...some fashions draw more attention to what's "not working" for example). Granted some people are not able to pass but also many of them don't let that stop them, many do but believe they don't. I'm 49, 6'3" and need to wear a wig - I manage to pass but I had to work at it.
6'1 and a half,234 pounds and I sound like Lemmy from Motorhead when he has a sore throat!
I see this thread is starting to drift away. So I am going to post here. For the sake of it. Okay I am not in this situation really I am pathetically puny. I am 5.7 and only about 8 stone as I am very skinny.
As for face I don't look male or female. But that could change....I hope.
I know that you are self conscious, but a photo would help. After all the worst person in the world to judge your own appearance is yourself.
The programm you used was online. I don't know which one you used, but the program might not have been all that reliable. Most transwomen funny enough do seem to pass.
Well I was very manly and I managed to make my appearance finally lean towards female after many, many years of trying, via HRT, exercises (body and facial), a bit of surgery pre and during HRT (If I had full FFS which I can't afford, I'm sure I'd become like 90% passable or so).
So here's my story:
I am six feet tall.
I was a bodybuilder from age 15 to 21 approximately. The idea was to become huge and defend myself from bullies in school. I think my chest-waist-hips were something like 51-36-40 with over 18-inch biceps and 16.5 inches neck, at my top size.
I started crossdressing maybe at 12 years old or something, but had dreams that I was a girl from before that. When I became a huge bodybuilder I still crossdressed secretly and looked awful, but I felt the need to do that.
Then I couldn't take it anymore and started reading about transgender people.
It took me years to decide to start HRT. Prior to that, I had a chin reduction surgery, laser facial hair removal, and a couple of attempts to enlarge my lips with my own fat, etc. I also started doing aerobic dance and other female exercises and decreased the male exercises, because I was no longer getting bulied, since I was done with school.
Today it has been six years since I started HRT, and in October will be five years since I had bilateral orchiectomy and tracheal shave.
Bottom line, I am just STARTING TO SEE my body finally look more than 50% fem at this point. I still have a large build, specially in my upper body, but believe me, HRT and male glands removal DO CHANGE your body a lot. But the big trade-off, at least in my own particular case, is that it has taken lots of time.
Now my measurements are about 41-32-5-40.5 breasts, waist and hips. My neck and arms are about 14 inches in diameter (arms with biceps flexed). I have an approaching-hourglass figure now, standing natural and relaxed, and a distinctly hourglass leaning to pear shape if I really pull my shoulders back. I still look like a mixture of woman and man, but it's a totally different body and face than that of myself in my bodybuilding, high-testosterone years.
So that's what has happened to me, after so many years of trying and trying to see changes, trying different wardrobe, hair and makeup and other things in order to look as casual and natural as a woman as possible (less is more, remember, makeup should be used only to minimize your defects and make your good features stand out, but just a little bit, it takes patience and practice, too much will out you as something other than a cis woman, because only prostitutes and drag queens wear excessive makeup as a general rule).
There are very subtle things than can make you read "male" even if your face is rather female. Even a tiny bit of beard shadow will immediately make you be seen as male by others. Same as hair in the hands or forearms. Regular women don't wear lots of makeup or flashy and attention-getting jewelry. Little but decidedly feminine accessories is better IMO. Small earrings, but decidedly fem, not unisex, Same with a necklace. Same with makeup. To me, foundation (I use powder to make my skin look a bit whiter than it really is and to conceal my problems, specially my undereye circles) as well as lip, cheek and eye liner, both above and below the eye, are just enough. I don't even curl or paint my eyelashes. I don't wear nail polish either. Just a modestly made-up face with conservative accessories can do the trick. If you have large feet, hands and/or arms, then you have to avoid showing them at all costs, and try attention to your most feminine
But remember, I was HUGE and super-manly and it has taken me SIX YEARS already, since I started transitioning, to just start being seen and treated like a woman. And still what I wear is very important, as well as the voice.
I hope this helps. I've met other MTFs who have spent even more than six years, to finally start being treated as women. It is different for everybody. I think if I was able to lose so much muscle and my face litle by little become more feminine just with HRT, then this can happen to anybody that is really a transsexual and will do whatever it takes and however long it takes, to finally one day start seeing the tide lean towards feminine more than masculine.
Cheers
Bibi B.
Quote from: bibilinda on July 10, 2015, 06:57:18 PM
Same as hair in the hands or forearms.
I have a question about this.. Why is it every woman I know has hairy forearms? No, it's not the same as guys hairy forearms, but they are still hairy.
I will admit that in the 6 months or so after I started hormones I did wax my forearms, not because women have bald forearms, but to encourage female-typical hair to replace what was there. It worked.
I'm 6' 0", about 240 lbs...have had people describe my build as "NFL linebacker."
I can soften some of the masculine features of the face with makeup (mainly blending out the male skin appearance), and I have a LOT of femme flourishes (not quite a sashay when walking, but you get the idea). These flourishes are natural, btw. One woman suggested I tone it down, and I was like, "But this IS what I do!"
I just accepted that I'll probably never pass...and what of it? I'd rather have features of a man (which I can't change) but otherwise looking girly (breasts, makeup, etc) than just giving up and going back to male impersonator.
Quote from: kelly_aus on July 10, 2015, 08:02:34 PM
I have a question about this.. Why is it every woman I know has hairy forearms? No, it's not the same as guys hairy forearms, but they are still hairy.
I also notice
a lot of that. Imo, they don't care because hair normally doesn't make them unpassable. But it normally does us.
The same as with fat distribution, if I want to pass, I've got to actually hide it and be skinny. I am still pending HRT, so if I let the fat accumulate, I will end up looking more male-ish. Unlike most females.
Undergoing all those things like epilation, laser hair removal, control of what and how much I eat, how much I exercise, skin care, or even basic hygiene, to name a few, has also made me feel better about myself when I am faced with all those cis women who don't do that.
Sometimes I'd speak with a cis woman colleague of mine who is obese or overweight. When we get to talk about food and weight, their dyphoria is triggered as they watch my body. Yeah, I work for it and I am happy to do so. And it is not hard. It is like...
Maybe that girl over there should have skipped that giant ice cream treat after already having a big lunch that I'd split in lunch, dinner and leftovers for the fridge...Imo, things like FFS or buttock lift are senseless before I start HRT. I expect physical things to change from HRT, and they might change for worse if mods have already been done. So that will have to wait.
Quote from: michellemartine on July 11, 2015, 01:56:51 AM
Sometimes I'd speak with a cis woman colleague of mine who is obese or overweight. When we get to talk about food and weight, their dyphoria is triggered as they watch my body. Yeah, I work for it and I am happy to do so. And it is not hard. It is like... Maybe that girl over there should have skipped that giant ice cream treat after already having a big lunch that I'd split in lunch, dinner and leftovers for the fridge...
Once You will start HRT, it WILL GET HARDER, lol. You will have to exercise more to stay in shape (and actually see less results afterwards). And dont get me started on those sudden irrestistable food cravings...
Lol, I meant to write 'not easy'. ;D But that short sentence looks like an alien in there. :o
I have less hair on my arms and legs than 90% of women, I just never got any. I only gained facial hair, armpits and male genital pattern hair. In all honesty some women are hairy and others are not. So I suppose it all comes down to density and perception.
I'd rather be gender ambiguous than look male. I have rather substantial breasts and a bald head. I don't mind letting people know that I'm not totally male.
While I would love to look like a natal woman, that would take a lot of work. It's also "not me". For years I tried to hide myself and appear as a cis-gendered male. That was never me. Going to extreme lengths to appear female is also "not me".
I want to be my authentic self and can't be bothered with wearing a disguise, as either male or female.
Hi, allthough im not very tall (5'10") i spent my youth in denial and at the gym lifting waights. my body is now rather muscular, but i found this hope this will help you to. Just remember to always consult whit your doctor befor starting a diet.
http://www.trans-health.com/2001/lose-muscle-gain-fat-dieting-for-mtfs/ (http://www.trans-health.com/2001/lose-muscle-gain-fat-dieting-for-mtfs/)
Good luck and remember that real beauty and femininity comes from within.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on July 11, 2015, 02:29:10 AM
Once You will start HRT, it WILL GET HARDER, lol. You will have to exercise more to stay in shape (and actually see less results afterwards). And dont get me started on those sudden irrestistable food cravings...
In my case I haven't found this to be true. If anything, it's been easier to lose weight.
So I'm not "hopelessly unpassable" but going without a voice these past few weeks has been interesting and revealing. I was also off my hormones for 3 weeks or so and yes I did notice a subtle yet significant difference. May have been placebo.
Visually in most clothes I am gendered female. Dresses and skirts? Gendered female universally. Pants and most tops/shirts? 90% of the time. Pants and certain types of T shirts (loose ones and baseball jersey)? That drops to 60-70%. However, you can tell there is some uncertainty in some people's eyes about my gender because they hesitate and if I tell them I am female they apologize and look horrified.
The way I wear my hair matters. If I let it down, it leaves things open for interpretation. Usually ungendered or sometimes misgendered if I'm wearing pants and a t shirt. Clip it to the back and let a few wisps hang to the side? Gendered correctly (female) universally.
Makeup matters. I wear it and I am gendered female 100% of the time. I don't wear it and that can drop, combined with clothing choice.
Nails matter, believe it or not. They don't have to be super long but they can't be stubby. I keep mine 0.5-1mm past my fingertip. They help to create the illusion of slim fingers.
Hips matter. My overall profile will look male in certain instances because my hips aren't the female shape and they haven't fully filled out yet. I may look into contouring sooner or later.
This is in the total absence of a female voice, or any voice. The voice is the swing vote as I've always said. Get that down and it will override a lot of things. And it can go both ways. If there is any doubt as to your gender, your voice will confirm it for most people.
If what I heard is correct, once hrt has started, fat is expected to distribute the feminine way.
So, if I am meant to be a fat girl, so be it*. Until then I'll keep working on getting slimmer and slimmer. I have four more years to go, so maybe my goal of 65-ish kg weight on mine 183 cm height will come true. That is like 143lbs to 6'.
* - Sometimes I'd hear 'sex bomb' song play, and instead of 'sex bomb', I'd play hearing 'fat girl'.
I don't know how to solve the problem but I try to be more honest about the reality of things than people who say "anyone can pass" cause I feel that hurts more than just being realistic. In reality sexual dimorphism can be very very strong and with the wrong combinations of genetics sometimes someone can be just too far down one isle that they can't cover enough distance in the other direction to get past the wall separating the two. Even some cis women (though rare) are born so masculine that people think they are transsexual or they are just considered very very ugly and to think there a lots of mtfs born in the same situation except even more extreme and you realize that not everyone has the framework to pass as the opposite sex and its sad. All the solutions seem "not good enough" I'm sure but I suppose you just have to keep on living and focus on things that don't trigger gender dysphoria as much.
impossible faiths are impossible because of the limitations of desire and lack of foresight. Reality is harsh, many times it feels impenetrable and unwavering, however, dreams are much more powerful then corporeal reality.
I still remember after being thrown out of my own household by my ex at the age of 44 simply because I finally told of my truth.
I was homeless, and cried my self to sleep dreaming of a girl one day shall awake from the lumbering sleep to walk this earth as genuine as she always was within yet deprived of congruity without.
At that time I was a semipro bodybulder 6'1'' 237lbs lean muscle mass, certainly the dream of any femininity was ridiculous and far fetched.
But I did not stop dreaming and trying occupying every minute of my life with thoughts of womanhood and anything I could do to help the process.
Calorie starvation, 400-600 calorie per day meals converted my metabolism into canabolic state, my fat and muscles started to be burned by my own body starving for fuel.
over the period of 2 years I have traveled from 237 to 155 lbs. Musculature had diminished to that of female proportion, my height shrunk by 2.25'' due to reduction in soft tissue.
I breathed femininity.
Then by grace of the universe I was able to secure the loan to facilitate FFS surgery.
I am now living as a genuine woman. Reality had surpassed my wildest expectations, all this because I dreamed the dream.
At 49 I am living the most beautiful of life, not only as a woman, but as a woman who is perceived to be attractive and desirable.
Do not forsake the dream, the reality resides within!!!
It's hard for me to be sure if I truly am hopelessly unpassable. Everyone who's seen me says I'm more just andro looking and could swing either way at this point. I started out pretty raw...6 feet tall, slim but big boned, almost 200 lbs. I never ever thought I could ever be correctly read as female.
About a year and a half on hormones it finally happened though. I started getting correctly gendered every once in a while at my old job. I don't know how, it was mostly middle aged or older folks, but I was, from all angles maybe a dozen times a month. It wasn't the majority of the time, but it was still happening at all, which was at least somewhat reassuring. Then I got rhinoplasty and it started to go up slightly again...maybe from 10-20% of the time to like...30-40% of the time but only at my job. Still was getting clocked sometimes though. A few instances where I couldn't believe I passed not trying with my voice.
And I kind of just stayed there for a while. Then I started to notice that despite the fact I had femmed out a bit in the 2.5 years I had been on hormones, I still had a bigger frame than any cis women I was seeing in my day to day life. I started to understand why I only passed less than half the time and not most of the time, despite single photos of me looking like a somewhat typical female. I've been in that panicked state ever since, now at 3 years on HRT.
Which is weird because I had maybe 2-3 instances over this summer where I was gendered correctly out in public (not at that job, on the street) which caught me off guard too, even if mostly I'm still gendered male. So I have no idea where this leaves me going forward. Especially since I feel in person my body is huge. If I were to post a picture of myself alone I look fine, but next to any other woman it's blindingly obvious I'm far too big to be cis. Decent features on it, but too big boned, even with my shoulders not being too big I have plenty of other issues. (large head and face, large waist, tiny hips, general overall frame big compared to any cis women) I'm shooting towards FFS, waist training, dieting, and buy hip pads in the meantime...it's all I can do moving forward I suppose.
Quote from: Sydney Blair on July 09, 2015, 12:38:30 AM
I'm 6'1 with a football player's build. Basically, I'm a giant. I have a round though very masculine looking face, did
Hey Sydney, I hope you are doing well. Please don't get down or discouraged. I promise you that everything will turn out ok. It sounds like you are young, and have not even started hormones yet. This whole process takes time, and I know you can wait, as you have waited all your life to even make it to this point. A few more years to get to where you want will be worth it. I myself had a masculine build, as I was a male gymnast, and I have worked my body to a place that I am feeling pretty ok with. I suffered from the huge muscular shoulders as well, and wouldn't you know for the first time this summer i have been able to wear sleeveless and backless garments with out any fear. Like I said it just takes time. If you have any questions or ever need someone to talk to feel free to say hey. You can do it girl.
Hello ,
I understand your pain but please don't lose hope . It's all a mental equilibrum we need to find . Not accepting , at least me i hate that , but some kind of changing the goal .
I managed to arrive at a point well although it still hurts , i am focusing on the traits themselves rather than passing . I could live with being a nice looking transexual girl , even that i will never pass or be stealth , i can blend in and also be admired for the feminine traits i have , even if there are a few masculine traits that give me away as trans .
Beside , it is also a matter of inner peace , i am a woman , i will have srs and all i want as part of the real dysphoria , the biological one , not the social standards and pressures .
I arrived at a point where i am not seeking their standards and categories , i am trying to become myself , to live myself , enjoy in my own way and my own needs and wishes , also regret freely , cold . It is hard to explain , but although it still hurts , it's a pain that sets free and give closure . I understand what i wanted , i process all differently , not thinking with genders and standards , rather more in a biologic way and seeing human beings .
You need to fight girl!!! Me during 5 years I was unpassable till recently I'm a bit passable. It's an eternal on going war since we're born. There should be a solution out there, you need to fight! Your face do a full ffs happens whatever happens at least you've tries, your voice go to Yeson and the rest work to figure out what can be done by experimenting new things always, it's like this I came to pass a bit.
Beauty & passability will not guarantee you ultimate happiness. I have a friend who still keeps on talking of suicide always despite she's perfect.
Well, here's the dirty little secret most transsexuals take forever to learn. Happiness doesn't depend on what other people think. Sheesh, most people don't even care what you look like or bother to notice whether you "pass" or not. The only thing that will make you happy is to be who you are and do the things you enjoy. If you love sports cars and you're driving a Maserati, does it matter whether the Joe Blows along the roadside you pass along the way like it or not? No. You're doing your thing. Live your life, Sydney. Have fun and stop worrying about everyone else.
Yes. Indeed true, Lyric.
The quotation shines:
Quote"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life." - Steve Jobs
barbie~~
There is more to beauty than passing...much more. We are all beautiful. Keep your chins up ladies. All of you. We have nothing to prove to the world except that trans is beautiful. I can pass well but a lot of times I don't put in the effort. It doesn't change my beauty, it just makes it more noticeable that I'm trans. I've really quit hiding who I am, and I'm not afraid to go out without makeup etc. I'm transgender and I'm going to represent. Don't hide. Hold your head high. Demand respect. Nothing can change who we are. We are women and we have a right to be ourselves and feel beautiful...passing be Damned!
Quote from: Oriah on August 11, 2015, 03:35:32 PM
There is more to beauty than passing...much more. We are all beautiful. Keep your chins up ladies. All of you. We have nothing to prove to the world except that trans is beautiful. I can pass well but a lot of times I don't put in the effort. It doesn't change my beauty, it just makes it more noticeable that I'm trans. I've really quit hiding who I am, and I'm not afraid to go out without makeup etc. I'm transgender and I'm going to represent. Don't hide. Hold your head high. Demand respect. Nothing can change who we are. We are women and we have a right to be ourselves and feel beautiful...passing be Damned!
Good stuff there^
I mean it's not like we have to carry on with our lives like carrying a placard reading "Hey look at me, YES I'm trans and I don't care" lol, :D but we shouldn't be ashamed of not being cis either, or worse off, we should never ever feel inferior to cis people, we should feel JUST A BIT DIFFERENT, and different is good!
We try to pass on an every day basis, not to deceive people, because we really are in our soul the gender we feel in our brains and heart that we belong to. ;) Sadly in this day and age most people in most parts of the world don't understand this at all, so having a transgender person as a relative, co-worker, client or employer is one of the most taboo issues for most individuals and families, specially the ones where one of the core members is an exceptionally-deluded Catholic zealot (hello, mom) or an extremely close-minded conservative/transphobic specimen (what's up dad) with a totally-distorted view of what is different, as something evil, perverted or unnatural and disgusting, which is a clear demonstration of pure ignorance and lack of interest in learning and understanding new or different things.
Anyways, I am digressing a bit, I already commented earlier in this same thread. I am NOT one of those who always "passes" in public, due to a myriad of reasons. I really don't feel like I have to stop being me and start imitating any cookie-cutter female-stereotype kind of women, just to make sure I will look 100% female to everyone who deals with me. If they don't see the woman in me, it is their problem, not mine, because I am already doing all that I feel is needed to do to belong in the desired gender I chose because of my huge GD condition. If you do HRT for at least a couple of years or so, as well as the best fem voice you can, and the best you can to get rid of the facial hair and make your face look more fem with some makeup, then fix your hair up in a pleasing fem manner without exaggerating, and wear feminine-enough stuff when you go out, but not tacky, tasteless or flashy apparel that may draw negative attention, then people should, just to show some respect and good manners, treat one as the gender one is obviously trying to portray.
But unfortunately there are always he and she-jerks everywhere, and believe it or not, sometimes (or actually lots of times) they are actually jealous people who feel frustrated that they don't do in life what they really want to do, that they don't live like their real selves or that they don't have what they want to have because they don't and won't even try, and then they unload their own frustrations on the people who dare have the guts to at least try to become their true selves in spite of it being probably the least popular course of action to take...
So who cares if all the odds are against you? If you KNOW you are really a woman in your soul, go for it, do your best effort at becoming that person you really are inside, even if you may be "hopelessly unpassable" at the beginning, because if you are really a trans person who hates your birth gender like nothing else, ANYTHING is better than acting, looking and behaving like that gender! In such case, even 1% female, 99% male is still much better than 100% male! Just go for it! It does get better, even if not even close to perfect, but you have to try first and never ever be ashamed of who and what you are!!!
Sorry, I am no motivational writer or whatever, it's just one of those rare emotional outbursts I get sometimes... I should actually do what I preach myself lol ;D
Cheers
Bibi B.
I used to think like this too...
I think everyone can pass, in their own way. We are very unfair to ourselves... we look at other woman, models and of course that 1% is unattainable. Even for cis-woman, that 1% is unattainable. What we need to look at is, is the average woman. How does she compare to us? I think most of us will fare well when we compare ourselves to the average woman. Some of us even look "better" than average.
I don't believe ugly people exist. Even someone with a facial deformity can be attractive, in some way. What we think as ugly, can be beautiful for someone else.
Quote from: suzifrommd on July 09, 2015, 12:47:51 PM
I know a number of transgender women who don't pass and never will.
They are among the happiest women I know. They are thrilled with their transitions, thrilled to be women (and they ARE women. Passability is not a requirement for gender...), and can be quite beautiful. They don't ever worry about whether they are clocked, and most of them report they rarely get misgendered. People can see that they're trans, but most respectful, polite people treat them as the women they are. Yes, people slip with pronouns, but they correct them politely or just let it pass because how people see them doesn't define them.
Hugs, Sydney. I really hope this helps.
+1
When you are out at trans oriented events you'll see many as Suzy stated.
In my support group we have a member who puts his height at 6ft 14. And he is. Long ago he just came to accept the fact that no way, no how, can he ever pass. Back 40 years when did my transition experiments, I was 6ft tall in a world filled with 5'5" tall women and 5'10" tall men. I stood out in either end. More so in heels. I also resigned myself to no-way, no-how existence and did what I could to maintain some sort of balance.
I consider myself one of the luckier trans females in that for me a full transition was never a do or die situation. Same for my other group member. Over time for me things did change some. And like others nothing beats the sheer joy of being out in the real world as the real me. Unlike my past experience, I had undergone a lot of inner growth. Lost a ton of emotional baggage, the shame, and guilt of being TG and some of the internalized transphobia. As long as I wasn't being openly laughed at, or worse, let them look. Funny how nowadays when I get that bit too long of a lingering look, especially from a guy, I now think, "Yep, not bad for an old bat" rather then in the past's "Some guy in a dress"
Be YOU. Screw the rest. Hard but doable! ;)
Quote from: 2cherry on November 25, 2016, 06:20:50 AM
I used to think like this too...
I think everyone can pass, in their own way. We are very unfair to ourselves... we look at other woman, models and of course that 1% is unattainable. Even for cis-woman, that 1% is unattainable. What we need to look at is, is the average woman. How does she compare to us? I think most of us will fare well when we compare ourselves to the average woman. Some of us even look "better" than average.
I don't believe ugly people exist. Even someone with a facial deformity can be attractive, in some way. What we think as ugly, can be beautiful for someone else.
Absolutely. I've sat in a sidewalk café, sipping and people-watching, and there are an awful lot of ciswomen out there that would never pass according to the criteria we see posted in the "Do I pass?" threads here. Women with mustaches, women with brow ridges, women with big chins, women with no chins, flat noses, bulbous noses, tall, short, thin, stout and so on, all running about shopping, towing kids, mingling with their friends, and seemingly unconcerned that they don't "pass."
They're just getting on with their lives.
I can do that, too.
Quote from: Michelle_P on November 25, 2016, 12:10:57 PM
Absolutely. I've sat in a sidewalk café, sipping and people-watching, and there are an awful lot of ciswomen out there that would never pass according to the criteria we see posted in the "Do I pass?" threads here. Women with mustaches, women with brow ridges, women with big chins, women with no chins, flat noses, bulbous noses, tall, short, thin, stout and so on, all running about shopping, towing kids, mingling with their friends, and seemingly unconcerned that they don't "pass."
And the thing that they all have in common is their voice. Regardless of how they look, their voice confirms their female gender. It's why developing a female voice is, in many ways, the most important aspect of transition. And everyone can get the voice they need, with minimal cost. But you must practice every day for many, many months. It requires patience and discipline - two very important traits that everyone must have in order to have a successful transition.
Quote from: EmilyMK03 on November 25, 2016, 01:17:57 PM
And the thing that they all have in common is their voice. Regardless of how they look, their voice confirms their female gender. It's why developing a female voice is, in many ways, the most important aspect of transition. And everyone can get the voice they need, with minimal cost. But you must practice every day for many, many months. It requires patience and discipline - two very important traits that everyone must have in order to have a successful transition.
I remember a girl I met a few yours ago in Slovenia. Among the hundreds of audience, she stood out. Charming, graceful and slim. Later, I realized that she was a daughter of a member of our team from the U.S. We had a chance to be together for dinner. After hearing her surprisingly low voice, I suspected whether she is transgender. But I could not detect any hint supporting my suspicion except her voice. She was just ordinary daughter. Her voice was just like man's.
Yes. I agree that my low voice is the main obstacle, because many people ask whether I am a man or a woman after hearing my voice. Some people still call me ma'am even after hearing my voice.
barbie~~
Thank you 2cherry for bumping this thread!!!...
I had not seen it before and there are a lot of good thoughts being put forward here... We all struggle with this stuff to one degree or another and even when we decide that 100% passing doesn't matter... The little demons can pop up in your mind and tell you that it matters beyond all else... We all need to be gentle with ourselves... Worrying about this too much is a recipe for a lot of misery and life is for living!!! :)
I liked Michelle P's observations...It's funny how we perceive things... I look through fashion magazines sometimes and all the models look Trans to me... I belong to some women's social groups and sometimes look at group pics of our events and feel I look like the cis woman and they all look Trans...
Onward we go!!!
Ashley :)
Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Quote from: ChiGirl on July 09, 2015, 03:16:32 PM
When I was younger, passing was so important to me. Maybe it's part of the reason I shied away from transitioning. Now at 40, I'm not sure how much I care. I just want to be myself. I know my first few outings will be scary and I probably won't pass, but I'm looking forward to it. Remember, part of passing is attitude and confidence. Good luck and hugs!
BTW, I'm 6' with size 13 feet, 300lbs+ and need a wig.
You sound like me in some ways... I started therapy at 39, started HRT at 40... When I started out I was 5'11', 360lbs, big boned, big ribcage...basically built like a football lineman even without exercise... I was pretty much my adult size by the time I got to the 8th grade... I did not transition earlier because I thought there was no way I could realistically do it. I was very afraid ... That fear was the hardest thing i had to deal with.
Not sure if that shoe size you gave was male or female I was 10.5 EEE and now 12WW (unfortunately I have very wide feet)... But I was lucky in that I did not need a wig - but I would have I had waited much longer to start HRT as I had started developing a bald spot.
While HRT softened my face it did not redistribute much fat... I managed to get down to 200lbs but actually made me more easily read because of bone structure, so I put some of weight back on (not planned, just lost the motivation to watch my weight)...
But with FFS and time these days I do OK. While I realistically could not live a life that depended on being stealth, I am reasonably sure I pass most of the time, and very seldom have any issues.
- karen
Quote from: Michelle_P on November 25, 2016, 12:10:57 PM
Absolutely. I've sat in a sidewalk café, sipping and people-watching, and there are an awful lot of ciswomen out there that would never pass according to the criteria we see posted in the "Do I pass?" threads here. Women with mustaches, women with brow ridges, women with big chins, women with no chins, flat noses, bulbous noses, tall, short, thin, stout and so on, all running about shopping, towing kids, mingling with their friends, and seemingly unconcerned that they don't "pass."
They're just getting on with their lives.
I can do that, too.
Not to make this too offtopic but after seeing many of your posts you sound like a delightful person that I'd love to sit and have a cup of coffee with ^_^ Haha
Quote from: DuchessBianca on November 26, 2016, 10:29:42 AM
Not to make this too offtopic but after seeing many of your posts you sound like a delightful person that I'd love to sit and have a cup of coffee with ^_^ Haha
I often, every day when it's not raining heavily, go for a long walk in the area near my apartment, a local shopping district. I'll often pause near the end at a Starbucks that has a large outdoor seating area at one end of a pedestrian mall, get a cup of coffee, sit, relax, catch up here, and people watch. Sometimes they watch back, and I greet them with a smile.
Walking about, and watching the shoppers go by, is a great way to see how people dress, move, and interact. It's my school, what I study when trying to improve my social gender presentation. It's the cultural end of femininity, not the innate stuff, and I am trying to fit in. I grew up in an all male household, male high school, Navy, and such, so I didn't have the exposure. This helps.
I'm always up for coffee with someone else. ;D
I'm pretty sure I'm going to fit into this category. Now I have been pet sitting the last 2 weeks since making my decision to transition. With that said I haven't gotten a chance to shave my face. I will post an updated photo once I have (probably later tonight).
Do I have anything working in my favor or is it hopeless?!?
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161130%2Fe96f26b3633ea67450ebfa5ad8a55edf.jpg&hash=f9440fe881009dbfbcd63e5e26802213a58dddab)
Loves [emoji182]❤️[emoji182]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Alora on November 29, 2016, 06:50:31 PM
I'm pretty sure I'm going to fit into this category. Now I have been pet sitting the last 2 weeks since making my decision to transition. With that said I haven't gotten a chance to shave my face. I will post an updated photo once I have (probably later tonight).
Do I have anything working in my favor or is it hopeless?!?
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161130%2Fe96f26b3633ea67450ebfa5ad8a55edf.jpg&hash=f9440fe881009dbfbcd63e5e26802213a58dddab)
Loves [emoji182]❤️[emoji182]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
hormones will slim your jaw down. If it's soft tissue that's making it wide then hormones will take care of that but you will need a wig. They do have a medication that will regrow your hair ,but I can't think of the name. Im sorry to say, but you will need to get a nose job.
You have a few problem areas. The hair can be adjusted for. The nose is a little on the masculine side (like mine). You have a real positive in those eyes though. I don't usually do looks critiques (other than myself) but you have potential that maybe you aren't crediting yourself with. The beard has gotta go "Dodo bird."
Monica
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on November 29, 2016, 07:04:02 PM
hormones will slim your jaw down. If it's soft tissue that's making it wide then hormones will take care of that but you will need a wig. They do have a medication that will regrow your hair ,but I can't think of the name. Im sorry to say, but you will need to get a nose job.
I'm going to try to get insurance to pay for hair replacement surgery, but I have a few wigs picked out in case they decline.
I figured a nose job was in my future for sure. I'm hoping with some weight loss I'll lose the hoods on my upper eye lids too.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok, shaving was a weird experience. I haven't shaved in nearly 12yrs.
Well.... here is me without the facial hair.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161130%2Fa1f37ae3003a771bb8812be3a55d13df.jpg&hash=7244535502e9d882ad44eb3293d7b1022cd0278a)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Alora, Holy cow just losing the facial hair made a big difference. Call me the eternal optimist but nothing is hopeless if you want it bad enough. Jessica.
This topic came up in one of my support groups recently. And the comment of the evening went to a bright, young, transgender woman. When I heard it I automatically identified with it. She said she has those days (and we all do really) when she looks in the mirror and says, "What the hell is that!"
A sense of humor is indispensable when dealing with this issue, I think.
I think your highest priorities should be electrolysis and weight loss, in that order. Don't waste your time and money on laser - it won't work for you because your hair color is too light. So start electrolysis immediately. And start changing your diet so you can shed that extra weight - unfortunately it really shows on your face. You do have very pretty eyes though!
And it's not hopeless. It's never hopeless as long as you have discipline and patience. That's what I always say. The keys to a successful transition are discipline and patience. But mostly discipline. You must work hard, do tons of research, do many things outside of your comfort zone, sacrifice many comforts of life, and do it for months and years on end. But if you really want this - if you really need this - you can do it.
Quote from: EmilyMK03 on November 30, 2016, 12:53:26 AM
"do many things outside of your comfort zone, sacrifice many comforts of life, and do it for months and years on end.
I agree with this.
Don't underestimate what hormones can do. But you will spend the next few years doing a lot of things that are a LONG way outside your comfort zone. Mostly this has to do with the fact that you will be living between genders for a several years.
You will have a lot of difficult conversations with people. You will be asking everyone in your life to call you by your new name.
Some random examples of 'outside-comfort-zone' experiences are :
- Explaining to the the dentist whether you are on any new medication and what for
- Discussing with the blood bank whether you are eligible to donate blood
- First bra fitting while still presenting as a male
- Explaining to the makeup artist what you hope to get out of your lesson with them
- Spending time with clothing stylists going through women's clothes and fashion (side note - think A-lines/rouching/ruffles to create hip shape, and V-neck to make shoulders look smaller)
- Hundreds of times when you will be asked for a particular ID document, and the name on it does not match how you are dressed.
- When my regular hairstylist wasn't available at the busy hair salon; before I got a chance to chat with her, the fill-in unknowingly stuck a comb in my hair and flung my wig across the room
- Standing in a business meeting on the 44th floor wearing a skirt, introducing yourself to clients, and accidentally getting your own name wrong (inevitable, it will happen sometime)
- Arguing with airline check-in staff about whether you can travel because your passport is in one name, and your immigration visa is in another
- Being asked invasive questions about your genitals by strangers. All. The. Time.
- Being treated like you are delusional
- A waiting room full of people, and you are dressed (and passing fine) as one gender. Then the receptionist calls out for you by your other name.
- Instructing the reception staff at your work on how you want them to handle people who ring and ask for you by your old name
- Watching people get in the confused loop of ..."ma'am... I mean sir.. I mean ma'am." Other people turn around to see what on earth is going on.
- Interesting (but strange) changes in your own sexual disposition
- Innocent young kids coming up to you on the train and asking you "are you a boy or a girl?"
- Ask where the toilets are. People point you towards one. You walk into the other.
- Sitting in a nail salon getting your nails done. Everyone can see you are trans. You don't care.
- You go to the doctor with nausea. They ask where you are at in your menstrual cycle. You have to explain why you don't have a menstrual cycle.
- Going through TSA at an airport. Having to have the 'I am transgender' discussion in front of a crowd of other people when the body scanner fails you as both a male and female. Then having to get felt up by a stranger..... every time.
- Having to deal with creepy ->-bleeped-<-s
- Getting in arguments with 'trans-hostile' drag performers who call themselves '->-bleeped-<-s', 'she-males' or 'chicks with dicks'.
- Being treated like the LGBTI poster girl for your work, when you just want to get on with your job.
There's loads more, but you get the picture. Provided you are confident, keep your sense of humour, and get along well with people - I think you will be fine.
Good luck !!
I was not a big fan of "in between" time. The switching back and forth can be hard to take. As I look back on the steps it takes to make the transition there is a lot to be scared of, there is a lot to get used to, but you know, it is also exciting, fun at times, and above all, satisfying in the end. You have to trudge through the times when you are discouraged. You have to be patient and you have to stay positive. Another important help for me has been to confide in people who understand what you are going through. Coming on this site, asking for help and trying to help others has been great for dealing with my gender dysphoria.
Let me just add one thing. It is hard, but it is really a wonderful thing to reinvent your life. I mean I am 59 years old and a lot of folks my age are preparing for the rocking chair. Instead, I am starting a whole new life. I want to live like I have never wanted to live before. I guess I have worked hard to be more passable. I don't pass sometimes, but as I have traveled down this road, I accepted being seen as a transgender woman and it made me relax and enjoy life even more. If you are destined to transition, hold your head up high and don't give into fear.
Monica
You have beautiful eyes, they are a nice shape too. Good proportions in your face. The only thing that's "off", is the nose. Lucky you! I had to do a full FFS. ;)
Indeed, the electrolysis. If you want to start, better start yesterday as it takes so much time. (think in years)
Well in regards to height and size i used to have the same concerns but in the chemist the other day there was this tall big boned ( i guess) cis woman at cirst i thought she was trans but no she wasn't , she was as tall as me , solidly built great calves, good looking too
This is the third time I've encountered this , i,ve also seen female body builders in my gym one had delts that put mine to shame so i don't think size really matters , the face does , the voice and of course confidence , but other than that there are plenty of big built women
one thing I've really noticed is that cis women have very full hamstrings those really make the legs , but you know if you want your waist to look smaller build up the gluteus medius so they become wider than where the legs are joined to the torso , also build up the thigh muscles
do lots of leg work and neglect the upper body in so much as just doing basic exercises to keep in tone , and i think with the addition of hrt fat ,could look good
I myself dont intend to lose all muscle as for me a female face with a muscular body would help in passing as a female body builder 😂....though i,m not sure i will care
Alora as 2cherry commented your face has that oval shape , and you have good lips too if you do hrt and surgery i think you would do very well, you are quite lucky
Me i will not see any of my old face when i go down that path ....that is how much work i will need
I'd love to say I'm perfectly happy with who I am and don't give a ->-bleeped-<- about the perception of total strangers, but come on. We're transitioning. The whole reason we are transitioning is because we're patently not happy with what we are and we're sick of people calling us "sir" and "bud" all the time. I manage a gas station, I get easily about two-thousand people through my door in a shift, when the company does give me the green light to present in my gender (long political battle there, whole other story), I'm going to be presenting in work clothes and not anything terribly pretty. My facial features and my voice are pretty dudely, even when I do try, so there's gonna be a lot of side-eye and ->-bleeped-<--talk that I'm not looking forward to. If I weren't constantly in the public eye ten hours a day, I'd be fine with being in between, but that is not the case, so I've gotta grit my teeth and plow through the next year so I can get some FFS going. By then the hormones will have had about 15 months to do their thing and the rest I'll wind up going under the knife for.
There's a solution to everything, but sometimes the solution involves a long and ugly journey. I've seen myself in full presentation, and it's wonderful! It's there, I've got it, you've got it, and in good ol' American Capitalism, it's gonna take some cold hard cash to counteract your genetics. Stop wasting and start saving, stop doubting and start planning, stop taking people's ->-bleeped-<- and start trying to become.
based from my experience no matter how pretty or passable you are you will never be truly free and happy if you care too much about what other people would say... No matter how passable you are some mean spirited people will find a way to dig on who you are and out you.... Dont give them the power..... For the round angular face you can consider long front layers and lighter hair color to soften your features and if you have the budget consider ffs... U dnt have to to it all together but little by little.... Voice and face ( forehead brow bossing), adam's apple are the biggest outer.... Boobs and genitals are not on display in public.... Body you can diet and wear undergarments to give you the feminine form even without surgery....Goodluck!