(This could be a bit triggery for some...)
A woman at work wasn't well last week, I asked if it was a sore throat and she told me it was her period, that she was yuck, basically.
When I saw her today I asked if she was feeling better. She was, and chatted a bit about a few things period related - I think one of the phrases she used was "you know how it is with us..."
She presumably doesn't know I'm trans so I took "us" as inclusive and... well... I kind of felt like a phoney. Or at least I felt like someone who doesn't really know what it's like since I was never born with a uterus and the adjacent bits and pieces.
A friend I had lunch with yesterday was likewise going through the throes of her period and talked a bit about it, she knows I'm trans and is quite happy to talk to me about allllll things gynaecological! That in itself doesn't bother me - it's awesome to be included in conversations like that. The massive bummer is that I can really only offer sympathy, not true empathy. Don't know, won't know, can't know what it feels like.
It seems mostly OK when the person talking to me knows I'm trans but if they don't I do feel a bit like I've tricked them into talking about secret women's business. I know I haven't - but there was still a bit of guilt about it. It's not major but I never figured this would be an issue for me!!!
Everyday I feel more and more natural in my identity, girl mode doesn't even seem like a mode anymore, it just is me. So I guess when I bump up against something that says "haha, you're not a genetic woman" it's somewhat disconcerting.
You need to put your doctors hat on and like a doctor, the conversation will remain between to two of you. As you learn more about the subject you will be able to empathize but this is your first time out and not knowing how to respond is making you uncomfortable. Also consider the fact that the woman you are talking to has no concept what it feels like to be trans so this is a bit of a one side conversation when it comes to comparing "female" issues.
Having lived for so many years, every once in a while life will still throw something at me that says "Toto we aren't in Kansas anymore" and it reminds me how complex it is to be a woman.
Grace-
There are lots of genetic women that can't have periods for one reason or another - you not having the proper plumbing doesn't make you any less of a woman. You have a sympathetic ear and that is very attractive to women because they (mostly) want someone to listen to them. If women are willing to open up about personal stuff like this then they consider you a woman as well - enjoy it girl.
I admit to being uncomfortable as well in chats like these and it was for similar reasons - no direct knowledge about what was being discussed. I mostly just stayed quiet and listened and learned and expressed my sympathy and that seemed to work.
Grace,
Interesting that you posted this because my very best friend recently had her period (yesterday actually). And we were hanging out, walking near the beach by us. She was mentioning how having a period is one of the peaks and symbols of femininity (to her).
However she did preface it with "I am not discouraging you or trying to trivialize you." And obviously she knows that I am trans* as well. But like you I did feel that twinge of "phoniness" as well.
But I have given it thought and think that us trans folks are women through and through. Just a different kind. Because if having a period is the marker of being female, what about women who cannot ovulate? Or who are sterile? Or intersex? Or who have an extra Y chromosome?
Maybe I am splitting hairs on it. But I think the real issue is how we feel on this whole thing, versus how others make us feel.
Quote from: Ms Grace on July 22, 2015, 07:30:08 AM
It seems mostly OK when the person talking to me knows I'm trans but if they don't I do feel a bit like I've tricked them into talking about secret women's business.
You haven't tricked ANYONE. You are being you.
Remember that a lot of CIS women don't have periods either. Those who've had hysterectomies, hormone imbalances, those on certain birth control, etc. Being trans is just one of those reasons. Doesn't mean we're tricking anyone.
I don't feel like a phony, I just feel left out. But that said, it's just something I deal with.
I felt a bit more understanding of this after srs, bled enough and bought enough pads to feel like one of the girls.
Honey, empathy is not about having gone through the same thing, it's more about connecting to the feeling.
I've trained as a Doula, mostly because I kind of already was one anyway. Even if I'm not working as one yet, I hear (and used to hear before transition and before Doula training) lots of stories about periods, ovulation, pregnancy, dilation (the other kind), childbirth, breastfeeding, menopause, and everything else that you can think of. I guess cis women feel some energy in me and that's why they've always opened up to me about those things.
I have a friend who sells mooncups, and I've even sold a few for her! I'm actually considering taking that up. I'm an advocate for them already, as well as for breastfeeding, natural and home childbirth when appropriate, and other things, without my credibility ever being put to question.
You are not phony, Grace. You are a woman, and women have a strong tendency to be empathic, even with situations they haven't lived.
Hugs!
My wife is on perpetual birth control, and she doesn't have a period. She nods sympathetically when other women talk about theirs. She doesn't share the fact that she doesn't have to put up with a period, because it'd sound like bragging at that point. She just kinda gets quiet or offers generic platitudes.
Hello Everyone, I carry tampons and pads (big/light) in case the need/request presents itself, and it has!
Was instructed having tampons in purse is a 'passing' trick.
I use pads, so that item gets frequent turnover.
Anne
Quote from: suzifrommd on July 22, 2015, 09:00:14 AM
Remember that a lot of CIS women don't have periods either. Those who've had hysterectomies, hormone imbalances, those on certain birth control, etc. Being trans is just one of those reasons. Doesn't mean we're tricking anyone.
Plus most of those under 10 or over 50... >:-)
Yes, I know that's a bit different, but as much as menstruation sometimes serves as a symbol of femininity, that leads to a very narrow view of womanhood. Women are much more than reproductive vessels!
If progesterone is a part of the HRT regimen, doesn't that cause cause cycles, but without the blood and cramps?
I've never felt that. Having being raised alongside nine other sisters, it was normal for all of us to have a 'period' together. I know I never actually menstruated, but all the symptoms have always been there for me on a monthly basis. I thought everyone who took estrogen long enough would go into that monthly cycle whether you physically menstruated or not -- especially when you work around a lot of other women. At that time of the month it can be one great big bi*chfest. Maybe you don't mean 'phony' as a word, but rather 'happy that bloodage does not happen to me'? I've a feeling you will eventually end up with the symptoms of the period. Then you'll commiserate, then you'll think 'what was I thinking!?'.
Quote from: rachel89 on July 22, 2015, 02:18:02 PM
If progesterone is a part of the HRT regimen, doesn't that cause cause cycles, but without the blood and cramps?
It varies like some cycle progesterone while others like me have it prescribed to take daily. I've never cycled and I've been on P for 40 months now. I do get pms but that's from my injections since I get them weekly. I have a few days before my next shot where I just feel like poop. When I take Progesterone on those days it helps alleviate the pms, so for me it definitely acts as a mood stabilizer.
To the op yeah idk I've been full time for a while, I lost count how long it's been but you just get used to those conversations. I myself have never really felt like I was being deceptive or anything, it's more sadness than anything else. Whenever the subject is brought up and I'm asked, I just say I have a medical condition and can't have kids. They understand and sympathize with me.
I carry a few tampons for others in case I'm asked. I carry panty liners for myself to keep things flat and also catch any drippings after #1. Wiping alone is not enough.
I dont feel like a phoney, just a little left out.
My close group of girl friends, do sometimes talk about their periods and I just nod along, but not normally long conversations.
I sometimes feel bad for my roommate, shame she sometimes has really bad periods, she cramps a lot and some months she bleeds alot. She finds it strange that I would like to experience a period. I know not having them does not make me any less of a woman, but it is a big part of the female experience.
I have been on HRT since age 17 (now 66) and thought that I didn't have cycles because I was on steady E levels. In my 30s, my husband informed me otherwise. Apparently it was obvious enough that HE kept track so he would know which days to walk on egg shells.
As far as other women discussing their periods, that's just part of "girl talk" - you will get used to it.
If you are between 15 and 55, it is a good idea to have some tampons or pads in your desk drawer. If someone asks for one, you don't need to go into personal details as to WHY you don't have any.
Thanks folks, don't know why I was getting a case of the guilts over this. :-\
Quote from: Northern Jane on July 24, 2015, 06:05:32 AM
If you are between 15 and 55, it is a good idea to have some tampons or pads in your desk drawer. If someone asks for one, you don't need to go into personal details as to WHY you don't have any.
Yeah, I've wondered about doing that...it seems like the logical thing to do, especially since it's likely I might get asked...but still don't feel right about doing it.
Quote from: iKate on July 22, 2015, 07:13:27 PM
I carry a few tampons for others in case I'm asked. I carry panty liners for myself to keep things flat and also catch any drippings after #1. Wiping alone is not enough.
Hello, a little confused here. How does a panty liner keep things flat? I would think it adds to bulk buildup. Do many women wear a pantyliner on a daily basis?
Thank you,
Anne
Quote from: OOAnne on July 24, 2015, 08:25:09 AM
Hello, a little confused here. How does a panty liner keep things flat? I would think it adds to bulk buildup. Do many women wear a pantyliner on a daily basis?
Thank you,
Anne
It smooths things out.
Yes many women wear them on a daily basis even when not menstruating.
Quote from: iKate on July 24, 2015, 08:29:02 AM
It smooths things out.
Yes many women wear them on a daily basis even when not menstruating.
Are you referring to leveling the grade? Keeping clothing out of the valley (murph)?
To everyone: Whats wrong with informing people you don't get a period and can't have kids? Find myself proudly explaining why I am part of the solution not the problem!
Quote from: OOAnne on July 24, 2015, 08:45:38 AM
Are you referring to leveling the grade? Keeping clothing out of the valley (murph)?
To everyone: Whats wrong with informing people you don't get a period and can't have kids? Find myself proudly explaining why I am part of the solution not the problem!
Because I don't want my trans status to dominate conversations I have with people, and I would rather people just treat me like a woman and nothing but a woman.
Even if I tell people I don't have one its just a passing thing like 3-4 words. And truthfully it distresses me to no end that I will never be 100%. Not just in the eyes of people but my own self. Since I was a kid in fact I saw my mothers sanitary products and wondered if I would get to use them. As icky as that sounds! Cis females would probably think I'm nuts.
And yes as for the liner it's about keeping things flat and not bulging. I'm not as "well endowed" as most AMAB are so I guess this works for me.
Quote from: OOAnne on July 24, 2015, 08:25:09 AM
Do many women wear a pantyliner on a daily basis?
Well, I certainly do, as {at several decades post-GRS} 'natural' vaginal and bulbourethral discharges, will soon stain one`s undergarments. ;)
Quote from: CollieLass on July 24, 2015, 08:48:30 AM
Well, I certainly do, as {at several decades post-GRS} 'natural' vaginal and bulbourethral discharges, will soon stain one`s undergarments. ;)
Could never understand white underwear.
ftm here, a view from the other side. When girls are starting to having periods they are often irregular and not use to carrying supplies, they often ask if anyone has a pad or cork as that is what my group of girls called tampons. Girls who hadn't started there yet often felt left out on the outside of this female experience. Some even carried supplies so give the appearance of having started. A few would get cramps which others could not relate too at all.
Quote from: OOAnne on July 24, 2015, 08:55:36 AM
Could never understand white underwear.
Have you ever worn white pants?
When I first came out and was alone with my 2 female cousins who i'm so close with they sat me down and explained EVERYTHING about their periods to the point I was amazed that there are millions and billions of females around the world that go through it every 28 days.
Quote from: Stevie on July 26, 2015, 12:25:55 PM
Have you ever worn white pants?
I almost bought white pants the other day, then I remembered I'm not a masochist. [emoji12]
Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah I had those thoughts as well, and I have other girlfriends who are like "be glad you don't have periods!" It's like ok yeah I know it might sound crazy but I would actually love to have them.
I mean sure it is very feminine to have periods, but is it really though? What about trans men with periods? Are they women? No! I try to just see it as one female sympathizing with another female, both assigned different bodies at birth but that doesn't really matter now does it?
It's not like these cis girl can relate to my problem of having a bulge in my new skirt that ruins everything amiright?!
I think most genetic women find their periods to be an inconvenience, a nuisance and, for many, debilitating (cramps, headaches and worse). Yes, they are also part of reproduction and motherhood but by and large I'm sure most women would switch them off if they could. It seems to me though, that as trans women, we see it as something that women bond over, because it is a shared experience and something that men are not included in discussing. "Secret women's business"... as they might call it in Australia. Talking about menstruation gives women an option to show empathy and support and sisterhood, so it's no wonder trans women feel it is a potential grey zone for them.
Anyway, I went and bought a small box of tampons to carry in my purse. I might not need them but I can show a bit of support should someone else is caught short.
happiest day for my wife was when she got her hysterectomy,she used to bled so heavy that she wore diapers for pads,the downside was the moodswings til they got her hormones somewhat under control..thats one thing im happy to have missed out on,bad enough i have my own moodswings i deal with
Fertility and menstruation are actually the biggest triggers for me. Last year they started to drive me crazy. I constantly had very dark and twisted thoughts about pretty much everything and everyone. It was back then that I realized that I will never be satisfied with feeling left out like that because I really am being left out. The one thing that keeps me away from that state of mind is the firm belief that very soon we will be able to cure trans infertility. A fair portion of women with AIS (XY women) have a uterus and are able to give an otherwise normal birth via an IVF. That's very promising because they are (genetically speaking) men with working female parts - without any kind of genetic therapy or regenerative medicine. And fertility is a huge business so the demand will be there.
I'm not sure how to feel when my best friends (female) bring up their periods. I sympathize with them because the discomfort of it all. But mostly I feel a little left out I guess. I mean (not to trigger anyone at all here) if I do fully transition at some point in the future, I won't be able to have children the same way my female friends do.
However, I don't think it makes me any less female not having a period either. Still I am glad we are talking about this because for the longest time I thought I was the only one who felt this way. Talking helps clear the air, especially since society doesn't really want to talk about female (trans/biological) reproduction.
Quote from: Ms Grace on August 15, 2015, 12:42:53 AM
I think most genetic women find their periods to be an inconvenience, a nuisance and, for many, debilitating (cramps, headaches and worse). Yes, they are also part of reproduction and motherhood but by and large I'm sure most women would switch them off if they could. It seems to me though, that as trans women, we see it as something that women bond over, because it is a shared experience and something that men are not included in discussing. "Secret women's business"... as they might call it in Australia. Talking about menstruation gives women an option to show empathy and support and sisterhood, so it's no wonder trans women feel it is a potential grey zone for them.
Anyway, I went and bought a small box of tampons to carry in my purse. I might not need them but I can show a bit of support should someone else is caught short.
I was reading an article today about men who started carrying a few tampons and pads with them, so they could help support women who may be heavy on their periods and ran out. That is a good idea and a way we could show solidarity. I mean who cares if we don't use them? I carry a few tampons because I do get asked for them. The recipient is usually happy because it would otherwise be a bloody mess, and the vending machines in restrooms are typically not stocked anymore for some odd reason.
You CAN offer empathy and support without having experienced it yourself. I guess as a parent I can offer support and empathy about parenting but female reproductive issues are of concern to me as well even though I do not personally experience them.
Quote from: Jean24 on August 15, 2015, 06:35:36 AM
Fertility and menstruation are actually the biggest triggers for me. Last year they started to drive me crazy. I constantly had very dark and twisted thoughts about pretty much everything and everyone. It was back then that I realized that I will never be satisfied with feeling left out like that because I really am being left out. The one thing that keeps me away from that state of mind is the firm belief that very soon we will be able to cure trans infertility. A fair portion of women with AIS (XY women) have a uterus and are able to give an otherwise normal birth via an IVF. That's very promising because they are (genetically speaking) men with working female parts - without any kind of genetic therapy or regenerative medicine. And fertility is a huge business so the demand will be there.
Yes that is correct based on my experience. I've been treated by two fertility clinics and I believe the technology and medicine to allow XY women including trans women to have female reproductive function is already here and just needs to be implemented. However I think it is more like a 50 year plan. In any case the promise of it happening sometime in the future is enough for me to keep hope that we will be truly equal in every way someday.
I used to carry a tampon all the time as well. That was twenty years ago. I never get asked for one now ;)
I get the feeling uncomfortable part. You'll get used to it. Just compare it to the dysphoric feelings you had before transition and you'll have all the empathy you need to get through this conversation.
I lived in pretty deep stealth and I had the most difficult time talking about child birth and children. I don't like to lie and I've always told people that I have children. That is the truth. I found the most creative ways to approach these topics without ever revealing myself or actually admitting that I was the spermaozoatic donation type person.
Cindi
Ms Grace, you shouldn't feel like a phoney at all. It just happens to be something that you haven't experienced. Friends talk to me about their periods pretty often. I was surprised to find out that many cis women don't know whether we have a period or not. I figured that it was obvious but I have been asked quite a few times. I think that if you learn as much as you can, you can understand better what they're going through and empathize with them. I get PMS every 5 five weeks, so that helps too.
Quote from: AbbyDS74 on September 03, 2015, 08:30:51 PM
Ms Grace, you shouldn't feel like a phoney at all. It just happens to be something that you haven't experienced. Friends talk to me about their periods pretty often. I was surprised to find out that many cis women don't know whether we have a period or not. I figured that it was obvious but I have been asked quite a few times. I think that if you learn as much as you can, you can understand better what they're going through and empathize with them. I get PMS every 5 five weeks, so that helps too.
I think I get something similar too. I definitely am moody around the same time every month.
It didn't start until I started injecting E instead of the pills. I start getting unusually clumsy and I know what's comin. Neckaches, backaches, cravings salt or pickles usually, constipation, some dizziness, and omg the mood swings from one extreme to another. Fun times.
I was in a chemist last week I had some weird cramps and a girl serving was asking me about them, she got me some pills and said these were the ones she always used, I walked out and got in the car, and then it hit me, I was a confused 40 year old woman trying to describe cramps. Sure enough I was now holding some pills that used to treat strong period pain.
I felt like an idiot but they did fix my cramps.
Quote from: iKate on September 02, 2015, 02:53:50 PM
Yes that is correct based on my experience. I've been treated by two fertility clinics and I believe the technology and medicine to allow XY women including trans women to have female reproductive function is already here and just needs to be implemented. However I think it is more like a 50 year plan. In any case the promise of it happening sometime in the future is enough for me to keep hope that we will be truly equal in every way someday.
I think we will be see development sooner than that. I agree that the technology is there now, we just need the demand from trans folks and a few people in the biomedical world willing to push the agenda. That's actually my goal in life now - it bothers me that much to know that much tech is there but not be allowed to use and experiment with it. It actually caused me to change my degree and start over at a community college. Now I'm putting everything I have into a career in genetics. I know that I don't speak for everyone but I truly want to be able to drop the trans label and be an XX, reproductive functional woman and I think anyone who wants to do it should be allowed the choice.
Why on earth would somebody *want* to have periods - or pretend to have them?
That is truly bizarre to me.
Each to their own, Zoe. Periods seem like fairly miserable experiences to me, I don't think I've ever met a single genetic cis woman who has spoken in glowing terms about menstruation - but but since that's the way the biology works, for those women who do want to have children they acknowledge the necessity of them. Personally I would have loved to be a mother, I'm not but I'm also pretty glad I never had to suffer through PMS, menstruation, etc.
I just think it's a bit of a crazy way to validate one's sense of gender.
We should take validation from real things - our interactions, etc. That is constructive. To seek validation from false things, is taking a step back.
interesting , but pain is pretty far down my list of things I want to experience. I have enough problems with leg cramps.
People get validation from lots of things I can't understand, but if it makes them happy, gives them peace of mind and it's hurting no one else... let 'em have it, I say.
I get pms, since I'm on weekly injections and sometimes due to stuff happening I cant always stay on a perfect schedule so I go extra days without my shot and it's hell emotionally. I feel drained, moody, I bloat, it's not fun and I do get discharge (endo said its from the P) so yeah I just don't bleed but the hormonal ups and downs are there. Mondays I always get pms. This past monday however, I completely forgot that it was the day before my shot and suddenly remembered ohhh that's why duh lol. P does help with the pms but I don't take it during the day due to its sedative side effect.
I second what Ms Grace said, I wish I could have my own kids like that. I'm definitely going to adopt but still it's always going to hurt knowing that I can't get pregnant.
I love having my cake and eating it too ;). When women and I talk and the period thing comes up, I say "well, I'm just glad I am getting boobs, curves, etc., and I'm NOT having a period. They look at me and say "we hate you" :laugh:, it's all in fun, they are just joking, and we move on. Dani
Quote from: Zoetrope on September 04, 2015, 02:01:28 AM
Why on earth would somebody *want* to have periods - or pretend to have them?
To have periods would have meant being fertile and in my younger years I would have given just about anything to have children. Being infertile was TERRIBLY painful.
I never felt the need to pretend to have periods but it wasn't something I cared to discuss except with my closest female friends.
I would do anything to have a period.
I don't understand why anyone would pretend to have a period(how would that even work?), but knowing I'll never have one depresses me because it reminds me of the fact that I can not create life and makes me feel disconnected from most women. For all the talk about how many women don't have periods because of birth control, or hysterectomy, ect, it ignores the fact very few women have not menstruated at some point in their life(and those few non trans women that there are probably feel a bit different because of it too). Menstruation is kind of a big deal for cis women, and its an almost ubituously shared experience for cis women around the planet. And its a shared experience that we are left out of from not only experieimncing but from even truly understanding or emphasizing with.
Hi,
A bit different for some of us in as much we are female just were not born with some organs wether I have xx or xy or what ever combo over 15 different types makes little difference to me , im still female , so I cant have my periods or my child and there are many women who cant and don't and from birth , just because we are female does not mean we have every thing in our bodys just right from birth , though we do find out and not allways surgerys help .
Don't wish for what your body is not able to have , you may find other complictions you did not bargain for,.
...noeleena...
Quote from: Zoetrope on September 04, 2015, 02:01:28 AM
Why on earth would somebody *want* to have periods - or pretend to have them?
That is truly bizarre to me.
Why would anyone want sexism, discrimination, sexual harassment, etc? Why even transition since life as a guy is devoid of these things eh?
Quote from: Jean24 on September 03, 2015, 09:54:54 PM
I think we will be see development sooner than that. I agree that the technology is there now, we just need the demand from trans folks and a few people in the biomedical world willing to push the agenda. That's actually my goal in life now - it bothers me that much to know that much tech is there but not be allowed to use and experiment with it. It actually caused me to change my degree and start over at a community college. Now I'm putting everything I have into a career in genetics. I know that I don't speak for everyone but I truly want to be able to drop the trans label and be an XX, reproductive functional woman and I think anyone who wants to do it should be allowed the choice.
Being XX doesn't matter unless someone tests your blood. One of the Xs is randomly disabled in genetic females anyway. Put another way, we have the same number of active X chromosomes as a cis woman.
I was going through PMS monthly long before I even realized that I'm trans. Possibly because my testosterone levels were way below male levels and I synced with my wife. Several women I worked with or around pointed it out to me. Never had a period, but if it meant I could have a child I would, gladly. Without the chance to bear a child, no thank you.
Quote from: iKate on September 05, 2015, 09:36:12 AM
Why would anyone want sexism, discrimination, sexual harassment, etc? Why even transition since life as a guy is devoid of these things eh?
I don't get what you're driving at. Social attitudes are another matter altogether.
I maintain that we should not be seeking validation from society - nor should we pretend things to fit in with social perceptions.
Validation is a psychological matter. If we base validation on real things, that is good for us. If we seek validation from make-believe, that is dangerous and potentially destructive to one's sense of well being.
It is also destructive to want what one can't have. And this isn't even trans specific. It's very important for anyone's well being, to embrace reality.
We transition to be our real selves. Not to start putting up decoys all over again.