i think that there is a lot of confusion about just what spirit means
for instance, i feel that i am extremely spiritual, but not at all religious. which puts me in a very vulnerable position. because my pursuit of spirituality is exploratory rather than fixed, because i am the arbiter of what is true for me, anybody can trash my beliefs and say that i'm full of it, but i can't say anything against an established religion to defend myself.
it's like i'm always going up against absolute certainty vs. my position, which is often filled with confusion, doubt, and uncertainty. however, before i embark on a discussion about it, i'd like to start with some definitions, to show why i get confused sometimes.
from Wikipedia:
'The English word "spirit" comes from the Latin spiritus, meaning "breath" (compare spiritus asper), but also "soul, courage, vigor", ultimately from a PIE root *(s)peis- ("to blow"). In the Vulgate, the Latin word translates Greek (πνευμα), pneuma (Hebrew (רוח) ruah), as opposed to anima, translating psykhē. The word was loaned into Middle English via Old French espirit in the 13th century. In India Prana means breath.
The distinction between soul and spirit became current in Judeo-Christian terminology (e.g. Greek. psykhe vs. pneuma, Latin anima vs. spiritus, Hebrew ruach vs. neshama or nephesh; in Hebrew neshama from the root NSHM or breath.)
Metaphysical and metaphorical uses
The word is used in two related contexts, one metaphysical and the other metaphorical.
Its metaphysical context has attained a number of meanings:
1. An incorporeal but ubiquitous, non-quantifiable substance or energy present individually in all living things. Unlike the concept of human souls, which is believed to be eternal and preexisting in certain philosophies however in christianity described as the life-force of any living animal or human that is not eternal after death, a spirit develops and grows as an integral aspect of the living being. This concept of the individual spirit is common among traditional peoples. It is therefore important to note the distinction between this concept of spirit and that of the pre-existing or eternal soul because belief in souls is specific and far less common, particularly in traditional societies.
2. A daemon sprite, or especially ghost. A ghost is usually conceived as a wandering spirit from a being no longer living, having survived the death of the body yet maintaining the mind and consciousness.
3. In religion and spirituality, the respiration of the human being has for obvious reasons been strongly linked with the very occurrence of life. A similar significance has been attributed to human blood. Spirit in this sense denotes that which separates a living body from a corpse and usually implies intelligence, consciousness and sentience.
4. Spirits are often visualized as being interconnected to all others and The Spirit (singular capitalized) refers to the theories of a unified spirituality, universal consciousness and some concepts of Deity. All "spirits" connected, form a greater unity, the Spirit, which has both an identity separate from its elements plus a consciousness and intellect greater than its elements; an ultimate, unified, non-dual awareness or force of life combining or transcending all individual units of consciousness. The experience of such a connection can be a primary basis for spiritual belief. The term spirit has been used in this sense by at least Anthroposophy, Aurobindo, A Course In Miracles, Hegel, and Ken Wilber. In this use, the term is conceptually identical to Plotinus's "One" and Friedrich Schelling's "Absolute." Similarly, according to the pan(en)theistic aspect, Spirit is the essence that can manifest itself as mind/soul through any level in pantheistic hierarchy/holarchy, such as a mind/soul of a single cell (with very primitive, elemental consciousness), or a human or animal mind/soul (with consciousness on a level of organic synergy of an individual human/animal), or a (superior) mind/soul with synergetically extremely complex/sophisticated consciousness of whole galaxies involving all sub-levels, all emanating (since it is non-dimensional, or trans-dimensional) from the one Spirit.
5. In Christian theology, the Spirit is also used to describe God, or aspects thereof as in Holy Spirit, referring to a Triune God (Trinity): "The result of God reaching to man by the Father as the source, the Son as the course ("the Way"), and through the Spirit as the transmission."
6. Also in theological terms, the individual human "spirit" (singular lowercase) is a deeply situated aspect of the soul subject to "spiritual" growth and change; the very seat of emotion and desire, and the transmitting organ by which human beings can contact God. It is a central concept of Pneumatology.
7. In Christian Science, Spirit is one of the seven synonyms for God. These are: "Principle; Mind; Soul; Spirit; Life; Truth; Love" (Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy, p. 587).
8. In Harmonism, spirit is a term reserved for those which collectively control and influence an individual from the realm of the mind.
The metaphorical use of the term likewise has several related meanings:
1. The loyalty and feeling of inclusion in the social history or collective essence of an institution or group, such as in school spirit or esprit de corps
2. A closely related meaning refers to the worldview of a person, place, or time, as in "The Declaration of Independence was written in the spirit of John Locke and his notions of liberty", or the term zeitgeist, meaning "spirit of the age".
3. As a synonym for 'vivacity' as in "She performed the piece with spirit." or "She put up a spirited defense."
4. The underlying intention of a text as distinguished from its literal meaning, especially in law; see Letter and spirit of the law
5. As a term for alcoholic beverages stemming from medieval superstitions that explained the effects of alcohol as demonic activity.
6. In Mysticism, as existence in unity with Godhead.
See soul and ghost for related discussions.
Related concepts in other languages
Similar concepts in other languages include Greek Pneuma and Sanskrit akasha, see also Prana. In some languages, the word for spirit is often closely related, if not synonymous to mind. Examples include the German, 'Geist' (related to the English word ghost) or the French, 'l'espirit'. In the Judaeochristian Bible, the word "ruach" (רוח; "wind") is most commonly translated as the spirit, whose essence is divine (see Holy Spirit). Alternately the word nephesh is commonly used. Nephesh, as referred to by Kabbalists, is one of the five parts of the Jewish soul, where "nephesh" (animal) refers to the physical being and its animal instincts. Similarly, both the Scandinavian languages and the Chinese language uses the term "breath" to refer to the spirit.
See also
* Spirituality
* Spirituality Studies
* Angel
* Brahman
* Cryptid
* Cryptozoology
* Daemon (mythology)
* Deva
* Ekam
* Ghost
* Legendary creature
* List of legendary creatures
* Monster
* Pneuma and Pneumatology
* Prana
* Qi
* Soul
* Spiritism
* Spiritual world
Spirituality, in a narrow sense, concerns itself with matters of the spirit. The spiritual, involving (as it may) perceived non-physical eternal verities (or even abilities) involving humankind's ultimate nature, often contrasts with the earthly, with the material, or with the worldly. A sense of connection forms a central defining characteristic of spirituality — connection to something "greater" than oneself, which includes an emotional experience of religious awe and reverence. Equally importantly, spirituality relates to matters of sanity and of psychological health. Like some forms of religion, spirituality often focuses on personal experience (see mysticism).
Spirituality may involve perceiving or wishing to perceive life as more important ("higher"), more complex or more integrated with one's world view; as contrasted with the merely sensual.
Many spiritual traditions, accordingly, share a common spiritual theme: the "path", "work", practice, or tradition of perceiving and internalizing one's "true" nature and relationship to the rest of existence (God, creation (the universe), or life), and of becoming free of the lesser egoic self (or ego) in favor of being more fully one's "true" "Self".
Scoping the idea of spirituality
Some Indian traditions define spirituality (Sanskrit: adhyatma) as that which pertains to the self or soul (Sanskrit: atman).
Certain forms of spirituality can appear more like philosophy: note in particular the scope of metaphysics. And Ursula King writes: "... spirituality is now understood anthropologically as an exploration into what is involved in becoming fully human".[1]
Due to the broad scope and personal nature of spirituality as a term in various usages, however, one can perhaps gain an overview of the field by focusing on key concepts that arise when people describe what spirituality means to them. Research by Martsolf and Mickley[2] highlighted the following areas as worthy of consideration:
* Meaning – significance of life; making sense of situations; deriving purpose.
* Values – beliefs, standards and ethics that one cherishes.
* Transcendence – experience, awareness, and appreciation of a "transcendent dimension" to life beyond self.
* Connecting – increased awareness of a connection with self, others, God/Spirit/Divinity, and nature/Nature.
* Becoming – an unfolding of life that calls for reflection and experience; including a sense of who one "is" and how one knows.
The American magazine What is Enlightenment?, in its tenth anniversary issue, published an article which drew a distinction between what it called "feel good" or "translational" spirituality, and "transformational" spirituality, the former covering essentially the practices whereby a person feels better or changes approach, without in fact enhancing personal underlying spiritual centering (or ego-related viewpoint).
Osho, a controversial Indian teacher, comments of spiritual teachers that
"out of one hundred masters, there is only one Master, ninety-nine are only teachers. The teacher is necessarily learned, the Master ... it is not a necessity... The Master is a rebel. he lives out of his own being, he is spontaneous, not traditional..."[3]
The spiritual and the religious
An important distinction exists between spirituality in religion and spirituality as opposed to religion.
In recent years, spirituality in religion often carries connotations of a believer having a faith more personal, less dogmatic, more open to new ideas and myriad influences, and more pluralistic than the doctrinal/dogmatic faiths of mature religions. It also can connote the nature of believers' personal relationship or "connection" with their god(s) or belief-system(s), as opposed to the general relationship with a Deity as shared by all members of a given faith.
Those who speak of spirituality as opposed to religion generally meta-religiously believe in the existence of many "spiritual paths" and deny any objective truth about the best path to follow. Rather, adherents of this definition of the term emphasize the importance of finding one's own path to whatever-god-there-is, rather than following what others say works. In summary: the path which makes the most coherent sense becomes the correct one (for oneself).
Many adherents of orthodox religions who regard spirituality as an aspect of their religious experience tend to contrast spirituality with secular "worldliness" rather than with the ritual expression of their religion.
People of a more New-Age disposition tend to regard spirituality not as religion per se, but as the active and vital connection to a force/power/energy, spirit, or sense of the deep self. As cultural historian and yogi William Irwin Thompson (1938 - ) put it, "Religion is not identical with spirituality; rather religion is the form spirituality takes in civilization." (1981, 103)
For a religious parallel to the approach whereby some see spirituality in everything, compare pantheism.
To Christians, referring to one's self as "more spiritual than religious" implies relative deprecation of rules, rituals, and tradition while preferring an intimate relationship with God and/or talking to Him as one's best friend. Christians with such views usually belong to a non-denominational church.[citation needed]
Directed spirituality
"Being spiritual" may aim toward:
* simultaneously improving one's wisdom and willpower
* achieving a closer connection to Deity/the universe
* removing illusions or "false ideas" at the sensory, feeling and thinking aspects of a person.
Plato's allegory of the cave in book VII of The Republic gives one of the best-known descriptions of the spiritual development process, and may provide an aid in understanding what "spiritual development" exactly entails.
Spirituality can comprise both inner growth, changing oneself as one changes one's relationship with the external universe, and the outer process of transforming the physical reality around oneself as a result of the inward change.[citations needed] Some authorities connect the two, suggesting that outer change arises through the inner realization that all is oneself; whereupon the divine inward manifests the diverse outward for experience and progress.[citation needed]
Spirituality and personal well-being
Spirituality, according to most adherents of the idea, forms an essential part of an individual's holistic health and well-being. In this respect, some supporters of the idea of spirituality see it as a supportive concept even in workplace environments.[citation needed]
Though many people practise prayer and believe it affects their health, only limited scientific evidence supports the efficacy of prayer. In keeping with a general increase in interest in spirituality and complementary and alternative treatments, prayer has garnered attention among a growing number of behavioral scientists. Masters and Spielmans[4] have conducted a meta-analysis of the effects of distant intercessory prayer, but detect no discernable effects. They review the literature regarding frequency of prayer, content of prayer, and prayer as a coping strategy; then make suggestions for future research, including the conduct of experimental studies based on conceptual models that include precise operationally-defined constructs, longitudinal investigations with proper measure of control variables, and increased use of ecological momentary assessment techniques.
Spirituality and science
Analysis of spiritual qualities in science faces problems — such as the imprecision of spiritual concepts, the subjectivity of spiritual experience, and the amount of work required to translate and map observable components of a spiritual system into empirical evidenceOpposition
Science takes as its basis empirical, repeatable observations of the natural world, and thus generally regards ideas that rely on supernatural forces for an explanation as beyond the purview of science. Scientists regard ideas which present themselves as scientific, but which rely on a supernatural force for an explanation, as religious rather than scientific; and may label such ideas as pseudo-science. In this context scientists may oppose spirituality, at least in the scientific sphere.
Integration
New Age physicist-philosopher Fritjof Capra has articulated connections between what he sees as the spiritual consequences of quantum physics.[citation needed] Ken Wilber, in an attempt to unite science and spirituality, has proposed an "Integral Theory of Consciousness".[5]
Ervin László posits a field of information as the substance of the cosmos. Using the Sanskrit and Vedic term for "space", akasha, he calls this information-field the "Akashic field" or "A-field". He posits the "quantum vacuum" (see Vacuum state) as the fundamental energy- and information-carrying field that informs not just the current universe, but all universes past and present (collectively, the "Metaverse").
History of spirituality
Until recent centuries, the history of spirituality remained bound up within the history of religion.[citation needed] Spiritual innovators who operated within the context of a religious tradition became either marginalised/suppressed as heretics or separated out as schismatics. In these circumstances, anthropologists generally treat so-called "spiritual" practices such as shamanism in the sphere of the religious, and class even non-traditional activities such as those of Robespierre's Cult of the Supreme Being in the province of religion.
Eighteenth-century Enlightenment thinkers, often opposed to clericalism and skeptical of religion, sometimes came to express their more emotional responses to the world under the rubric of "the Sublime" rather than discussing "spirituality". The spread of the ideas of modernity began to diminish the role of religion in society and in popular thought.
Schmidt sees Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803–1882) as a pioneer of the idea of spirituality as a distinct field.[6] Phineas Quimby (1802-1866) and New Thought played a role in emphasizing the spiritual in new ways within Christian church traditions during the 19th century.
In the wake of the Nietzschean concept of the "death of God" in 1882, people unpersuaded by scientific rationalism turned increasingly to the idea of spirituality as an alternative both to materialism and to traditional religious dogma.
Important early 20th century writers who studied the phenomenon of spirituality include William James (The Varieties of Religious Experience (1902)) and Rudolph Otto (especially The Idea of the Holy (1917)).
The distinction between the spiritual and the religious became more common in the popular mind during the late 20th century with the rise of secularism and the advent of the New Age movement. Paul Heelas noted the development within New Age circles of what he called "seminar spirituality" [7]: structured offerings complementing consumer choice with spiritual options.
The study of spirituality
Many spiritual traditions promote courses of study in spirituality which happen to culminate in the unflowering of their own world-view systems or practices.
More generally, building on both the Western esoteric tradition and theosophy,[8] Rudolf Steiner and others in the anthroposophic tradition have attempted to apply systematic methodology to the study of spiritual phenomena.[9] This enterprise does not attempt to redefine natural science, but to explore inner experience — especially our thinking — with the same rigor that we apply to outer (sensory) experience.
Overall, scholars in disciplines such as theology, religious studies, psychology, anthropology and sociology sometimes concentrate their researches on spirituality, but the field remains ill-defined.'
-end of Wikipedia info
Quote from: Ell on September 09, 2007, 03:05:18 PM
i feel that i am extremely spiritual, but not at all religious. which puts me in a very vulnerable position.
As am I, however I am not the least bit vulnerable because of it. Unless you would like to count the physical aspect of that called witch hunts and holy wars and the like.
*signs sadly*But that said, finding your truths as you do you are not weaker for it. As an instance you can not prove to me that reincarnation does not exist nor that transsexualism is bad for instance. That said not believing as X group does, does not make you (or I) weaker. You do NOT need to defend your point of view to others.
This said, to me spirit is synonymous to soul; That which is you, not of the body.
Just my thoughts, sand in the wind...
Quote from: Kimberly on September 09, 2007, 05:02:53 PM
You do NOT need to defend your point of view to others.
i feel that you are right, but i don't understand why it's right. is it because trying to defend one's point of view is egotistical, and therefore wasted effort?
-ell
I would say because you do not have my context any more than I have yours. Let us take an unpalatable idea to some, in my past I have lived on earth in a form not human, yet aware with feelings, wants and desires. Without those memories, the feelings, the experiences, how can I expect anyone to understand something I can not prove? Spirituality is the same in this regard in that I do not believe what people call "God" exists, I KNOW 'he' does. This said I can not prove anything in any scientific capacity at this point; At best I can just smile an nod when someone says reincarnation is a myth, transsexualism is some punishment, anything other than heterosexuality is a sin and that you have to pray to Jesus to achieve immortal bliss in heaven an all that fancy stuff. I see things very much different.
A shorter form of saying this that simply your point of view is based off of your context; No one else has this as they each have their own. Without understanding, without common ground my words are just wind in the grass.
*curtsey*
Quote from: Kimberly on September 11, 2007, 12:17:53 AM
Let us take an unpalatable idea to some, in my past I have lived on earth in a form not human, yet aware with feelings, wants and desires.
hmm...not too unpalatable. please tell me more.
Quote
I do not believe what people call "God" exists, I KNOW 'he' does.
do you wish to elaborate?
Quote
I see things very much different.
i hope this doesn't sound too stupid, but, as in
Journey to Ixtlan different?
*giggle* This is going to sound funny if you are not familiar with the concepts already...
Quote from: Ell on September 11, 2007, 08:06:15 PM
hmm...not too unpalatable. please tell me more.
Really I just "believe in" reincarnation because I have lived a number of lives as animals of all shapes and sizes really. Note that I am not as certain any more that everything is the same deep down just the body differs, but in the same from what I can tell calling an animal unintelligent is the last thing I would do. This said I was a lioness my last life. I can't prove it so it might as well be a delusion right?
Quote from: Ell on September 11, 2007, 08:06:15 PM
do you wish to elaborate?
Well, I say know rather than believe in a large part because I believe saying believe is inaccurate, I know, I have felt, I have seen and in essence known instinctually. I imagine it helps a bit to know what divinity feels like and have occasionally chatted with Angels.
Now, you see how outlandish and totally unprovable that is? How "Oh she is out of her mind" and or that I am just interpreting the "facts" wrong?
And yet to me, and with what I know and my context my "belief" is quite secure.
Oh and yes I could be right out of my mind, but such is with all things known but not provable yes? (I am just glad that there is some measure of proof for transsexualism, lol)
Quote from: Ell on September 11, 2007, 08:06:15 PM
i hope this doesn't sound too stupid, but, as in Journey to Ixtlan different?
Er, um, I have never heard of that before so I shall have to look it up to be able to answer...
Ah, a work by Castaneda all right. To be perfectly honest I am not overly keen on that particular author. This said there ARE strange things in existence; An even if I totally discard my memories and voices and instincts and visions and all that good stuff I am still left with events I have experienced in this waking life in which I can not explain by known things. (That doesn't mean they can't be of course just that I can't.); So that said I believe life is stranger than we had ever hoped, and more fantastical than we ever scarced to dream. But of course, this does not make it so. At this point I am nothing more than a data point.
But this all said I COULD be totally out of my mind and all that jazz. I honestly do not know how else the hard scientific bent folks can see me. This said, that doesn't make it so. In the end I suspect all will know eventually.
I do have some measure of comfort mind, I know human understanding is far from complete.
Just sand in the wind...
Quote from: Kimberly on September 11, 2007, 10:10:07 PM
*giggle* This is going to sound funny if you are not familiar with the concepts already...
Quote from: Ell on September 11, 2007, 08:06:15 PM
hmm...not too unpalatable. please tell me more.
Really I just "believe in" reincarnation because I have lived a number of lives as animals of all shapes and sizes really. Note that I am not as certain any more that everything is the same deep down just the body differs, but in the same from what I can tell calling an animal unintelligent is the last thing I would do. This said I was a lioness my last life. I can't prove it so it might as well be a delusion right?
Quote from: Ell on September 11, 2007, 08:06:15 PM
do you wish to elaborate?
Well, I say know rather than believe in a large part because I believe saying believe is inaccurate, I know, I have felt, I have seen and in essence known instinctually. I imagine it helps a bit to know what divinity feels like and have occasionally chatted with Angels.
Now, you see how outlandish and totally unprovable that is? How "Oh she is out of her mind" and or that I am just interpreting the "facts" wrong?
And yet to me, and with what I know and my context my "belief" is quite secure.
Oh and yes I could be right out of my mind, but such is with all things known but not provable yes? (I am just glad that there is some measure of proof for transsexualism, lol)
Quote from: Ell on September 11, 2007, 08:06:15 PM
i hope this doesn't sound too stupid, but, as in Journey to Ixtlan different?
Er, um, I have never heard of that before so I shall have to look it up to be able to answer...
Ah, a work by Castaneda all right. To be perfectly honest I am not overly keen on that particular author. This said there ARE strange things in existence; An even if I totally discard my memories and voices and instincts and visions and all that good stuff I am still left with events I have experienced in this waking life in which I can not explain by known things. (That doesn't mean they can't be of course just that I can't.); So that said I believe life is stranger than we had ever hoped, and more fantastical than we ever scarced to dream. But of course, this does not make it so. At this point I am nothing more than a data point.
But this all said I COULD be totally out of my mind and all that jazz. I honestly do not know how else the hard scientific bent folks can see me. This said, that doesn't make it so. In the end I suspect all will know eventually.
I do have some measure of comfort mind, I know human understanding is far from complete.
Just sand in the wind...
it is as if a hidden, dormant desert flower within you has suddenly begun to bloom, with bright and beautiful intensity. it is thrilling to see it, and i am so happy for you.
Quote from: Ell on September 11, 2007, 08:06:15 PM
i hope this doesn't sound too stupid, but, as in Journey to Ixtlan different?
LOL, ever think of changing one's sex as one heckuva
"not doing?"~Kate~
spirit to me is essentially everything. i see everything as being connected. spirit is like the background structure that everything else is made of, or consists of.
religion usually tries to divide up the universe. religion is a very effective sorting tool. it says that there is something called god and that there is something else called creation that was made by god but is somehow separate from this god. it further divides the universe by calling some things good and other things bad or evil. all of this dividing or separating gives those who are exposed to these ideas a strange view of reality.
a very narrow, black and white view where there is a distinct line where spirit/god ends and something else begins. i personally see little possibility that this line could exist. ;)
Quote from: Kate on September 12, 2007, 10:23:55 AM
Quote from: Ell on September 11, 2007, 08:06:15 PM
i hope this doesn't sound too stupid, but, as in Journey to Ixtlan different?
LOL, ever think of changing one's sex as one heckuva "not doing?"
~Kate~
No. i don't understand not-doing ???
Okay this is not proof or anything I am simply stating a view on what spirit is.
Words for spirit are always interchangeable with words for air and breath and therefore life force. For instance Hebrew Ruach (wind, breath, spirit), Hindu Prana, Greek Pneuma.
But more interestingly kabbalistic mysticism goes into a great deal about the nature of soul and spirit and classifying it. For instance the Ruach is your spirit, one of the aspects of your being. And the ruach is basically the equivalent of "mind". So that sense of "you" that awareness is spirit. Of course there are even deeper levels than the Ruach such as the Neshama, Chiah and Yechidah.
I may not interpret this entirely correct but these are my thoughts on the subject.
That aspect of myself that goes beyond this body, this life. My ongoing Self, imbued with Divine subtle energies. An aspect of me that I strive to connect with daily, listen to regularly, and open my self to greater insights through.
Quote from: Ell on September 13, 2007, 11:04:40 PM
No. i don't understand not-doing ???
Explaining not-doing is kinda like trying to explain Zen's Satori... the more you try, the farther off-track you go, lol...
The idea is to remember that YOU, spirit, whatever it is... isn't defined by or dependent on your "identity," memories, things you supposedly "know," or anything like that. All that STUFF is what makes up your world, and it pins you in place WITHIN and as this world, but it's not really YOU.
Not-doing is something of an exercise to realize that. Something like how zen says it's fine to use a thorn to pry out another thorn stuck in your arm, but in the end you gotta remember to throw them BOTH away, and not get caught up in worshipping the method OR it's "goal."
Not-doing means, to me, to do something totally non-sensical... but as if it DOES make sense. You have to BELIEVE it makes sense, and yet know it doesn't, lol. One example I read is take your dishes for a drive around the block every night. Yes, it's insane, but SO IS EVERYTHING ELSE when you really think about it. We exist on agreements, a mass-hallucination of what's "real" and what's proper - but in the end, all the things which seem to make sense for THIS world totally fall apart in the next... which has IT'S own definitions and agreements and so on.
So if you want to REALLY know what you "are," you have to find an existence, a spirit, apart from the things which define you here.
And it occurred to me that changing sex is something of a not-doing. In my case, I lived as a male for four decades. And with that came a certain feeling, a way to apprehend the world around me. Males take it for granted and assume it's normal, as they don't know any other way. But I do. Especially NOW that I've transitioned. The world feels totally different, and it's not just obvious stuff like being called her and she. The female perspective is TOTALLY different, in a fundamental way. It's not just a flip of pronouns, it's an entirely different FEELING of the world. A NEW world even.
But I'm still here. Still existing. My spirit is beyond that which defines me, or the world it's existing in. And switching sexes was one heckuva way to hammer that point home for me.
~Kate~
Hi Kate there are at least two of us that had the same thought today.
I posted this in another thread earlier today.
There was one time in my life I was creating my own hell and thought I was going there in a hand basket by FedEx with nobody at the other end to sign for it. After I transitioned something clicked in my thinking process and believe me, a lot more than just my visible gender was changed at that time. I have looked at myself and the world I and I have totally changed my perspective on who I am and human behavior, from one end of the spectrum to the other.
Be back later.
Cindy
Quote from: Kate on September 14, 2007, 11:59:57 AM
Yes, it's insane, but SO IS EVERYTHING ELSE when you really think about it. We exist on agreements, a mass-hallucination of what's "real" and what's proper
~Kate~
hmm. no, not everything in this world is insane. f'rinstance caring well for your children. taking care of your sweety. being patient and nurturing to your pet, or the weird guy in the next cubicle at work. believing in love. waiting for the rain. taking care of your health.
-ell
Hi Butterfly
I quite agree with how you have described spirit but then everything has spirit some type of awareness of being. Not just everything organic and inorganic the entire planet we live on is spirit, the universe itself is spirit. Any and all tpes of mass itself is made up of energy and energy is all part of spirit. On the spirit plane we are all one.
Hi Kate, you are quite right about reality being like a hallucination. Actually if this reality was broken down to it's individual photons at different light frequencies then what we are actually seeing and experiencing is basically a hologram.
As for giving your dishes a ride around the block once a day I laughed until my tummy was sore. Next time just roll down the window and toss them out then you won't have to wash them.
Hi Ell,
You know sometimes not doing may be the best decision you can make. Let's say you had to get on the bus to go down town and decide not to and you find out the bus was hit by a meteorite, Well I guess One could say maybe you're intuition was more tuned in that day or that maybe there was a little Divine Providence at work here
Cindy
I think the problem is that too many people define it personally. That is why the Bible was written, to define terms as God wants them defined. In the Bible the soul and the spirit are two separate entities. Today they have been merged into one, so that people now equate the soul (especially the emotions) with the spirit, sing a few emotional songs and think they are having a spiritual experience.
I Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them,] because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is [rightly] judged by no one.
The energy of YOURSELF that leaves the vessel of your body when you die and either goes to enjoy the beyond or burns in hell.
Quote from: Katia on September 12, 2007, 10:41:58 PM
spirit to me is essentially everything. i see everything as being connected. spirit is like the background structure that everything else is made of, or consists of.
religion usually tries to divide up the universe. religion is a very effective sorting tool. it says that there is something called god and that there is something else called creation that was made by god but is somehow separate from this god. it further divides the universe by calling some things good and other things bad or evil. all of this dividing or separating gives those who are exposed to these ideas a strange view of reality.
a very narrow, black and white view where there is a distinct line where spirit/god ends and something else begins. i personally see little possibility that this line could exist. ;)
ok.
then, from the definitions listed above, would you say that for you spirituality involves
a) "simultaneously improving one's wisdom and willpower"
b) "achieving a closer connection to Deity/the universe"
c) "removing illusions or "false ideas" at the sensory, feeling and thinking aspects of a person."
a and c but perhaps not b?
-ell
Hi Ell
Quote: ....a) "simultaneously improving one's wisdom and willpower"
b) "achieving a closer connection to Deity/the universe"......End Quote
I think you're right on the money with a) and b). These are achieved every time that we experience some type of personal calamity, most often as a result of our own decisions.
I believe that each time we experience such results, when we look back on them we should learn something from these experiences because it would be insane to continue to repeat such behaviors or choices and expect anything besides calamity.
We should grow and learn from each error we commit and in this way we learn or acquire the the willpower and wisdom to do what ever differently. It's like a refining of soul and body process.
As for a Deity/or Universe, as I believe both are one and the same, Creation and created are all of one Deity as an infinite entity, and each one of us, including Universe, are one within this Oneness.
Hi Kate,
that is a normal occurrence especially in the many fields of scientific research, for every discovery there are still a plethora more unknowns still yet to explore and solve.
As for spirituality here is a short comment I mad a couple of days on another thread in this forum.
I may not have much faith in humanity, however I believe in its indomitable spirit. Some have endured and survived the impossible. So will there be an end of the human spirit? When humanity is gone the spirit will be gone with them, all that will be left "IS THE SPIRIT." We are all one within the Oneness in spirit.
Cindy
Quote from: Butterfly on September 14, 2007, 05:33:29 AM
Of course there are even deeper levels
yes, i have the sense that there is a much deeper level of consciousness that is independent of my moods, whether pleasurable or dark, and i feel that it is so enlightened, if you will, that it goes well beyond good and bad, is never perturbed by anything, judges nothing i do, and never struggles with any of the things i struggle with day to day. i feel that perhaps i could follow it, but it seems to be thousands of years old or older, and i feel like i still want to play and experience life on a more sensuous level. but then, maybe i'm just being an idiot. maybe i should follow it. would you? ???
The energy and essence that drives the body of existence I live in and allows me to communicate with God, angels, demons, and other ethereal entities.
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Jeannette on September 15, 2007, 10:56:07 PM
I think the problem is that too many people define it personally. That is why the Bible was written, to define terms as God wants them defined.
spirituality has existed for many eons; long before your particular brand of spirituality emerged. the terms you are using are young upstarts on the stage here, not the end-all be-all, as you suppose. if people choose to practice a form of spirituality that is older than yours, or newer than yours, they should have the spiritual and religious freedom to do so.
As I mentioned in a previous post, all that is, is spirit. And spirit makes up the multiverses ad infinitum. This would make spirit which is the essence of everything as old as at least this universe.
North American Natives hundreds of years ago understood or were fervent believers in spirit. They believed that there were many spiritual levels where their ancestors went to after they left this world, and that Mother Earth and the elements, fire, water, air, and earth as well as the animals and of course their brothers and sisters were all part of spirit.
Cindy