How do I fit in with other girls without them knowing I am bi or trans? Okay, what I mean is, I'm a physical born male. But inside I am a woman. What I'm asking is, how can I make friends with girls without someone thinking I want to date them, and without them thinking I am gay? I mean, the people I am around are only people in my youth group at Church, and they would all most likely judge me for who I am, and I don't want that. Any advice or help is appreciated. :)
Unfortunately, if you are presenting as male they will see and regard you as male. I often had the same issue - and even though I fitted in quite well with many women, and was even in jest referred to as an "honorary woman" from time to time, women will still generally keep certain barriers up and there will be exclusions. No doubt they will appreciate the friendship but if you're not acting "like a man" around them then they probably will perceive you as "gay" too. I'm finding it hard to give you advice since I failed on those fronts on a number of occasions...
Yeah. To be honest that was what I expected. It sucks because I have a very hard time being friends with guys since I'm not one and I guess that would explain why I only have two friends. My best friend who is a girl, I also have a huge crush on, and she does me too but things get in the way of us being together (mostly our friendship and us not wanting to mess it up) so its a little tough to not feel like we are just friends when we both really want to be more. Anyway, I just wish I could fit in with other girls. It hurts honestly. Thanks for your help though.
Before I start its important to define the type of person you are in interactions socially. Are you a loner or a gregarious person? I have been a gregarious person my whole life and have many friends both male and female, and can onll relate from this perspective. When I was a male it was easy to hang with males but I also had many female friends who considered me a potential no matter what I thought. Today, in the closet but having come out to over 60 friends, mostly females, I find that I am surrounded with female friends who include me in their most intimate convesations however the male, especially the younger ones have changed in how they interact with me. i'm told it has a lot to do with the pheromones we emit which has changed over time on HRT.
Quote from: JackieFox on August 03, 2015, 12:14:18 AM
How do I fit in with other girls without them knowing I am bi or trans? Okay, what I mean is, I'm a physical born male. But inside I am a woman. What I'm asking is, how can I make friends with girls without someone thinking I want to date them, and without them thinking I am gay? I mean, the people I am around are only people in my youth group at Church, and they would all most likely judge me for who I am, and I don't want that. Any advice or help is appreciated. :)
I dated them.
Once in love, we go blind.
So it wasn't odd when truely interested in what they were doing
even including playing with makeup & dressing. Ya uh can I borrow a piece of yours ::)
When making friends I doubt you'll be seen as a threat when you're a guy going along with it.
I never really explained it much. I try to be neutral about it and say it's an interest, or a like... Curiosity... Fun...
But that only goes so far untill they notice you show a little bit too much interest.
Like I was hanging out with this artsy type and I kinda attract that stuff. So we ended up having makeover x) but in her eyes it was a jest, in my eyes I want to look nice!
So I was angry at her for not applying it properly making me look ridiculous. Which is funny in retrospect because I must've looked silly nontheless :laugh:
That way people really start getting confused or think you're gay. I don't think they understand what's going on unless you tell them. So yeah for blending in without disclosure of how you feel people will make labels no matter what.
Muh.
I've met a few of my old girl friends in the city not too long ago. One of them I dated. They wondered if I was gay.
I just said no, I don't like men, why even question that whilst I used to date you XD.
Find people outside your group who take you as you.
I'm a loner generally because I feel generally like a bother to others and because its next to impossible for me to make friends because I live in the country, am homeschooled, and because I'm just intimidated generally. To be honest I really don't expect to have friends or to fit in at any point in my life. :/ (sorry if I'm being overly negative, I'm a little depressed at the moment..)
Hi Jackie, I have a few TG who are transitioning and the reason why I asked about your social side it is because a very good TG friend is similar to you. She has few friends and can count them on one hand, her family rejects her and she is bullied by her brother and sister despite being the oldest. I met her thru my speech therapist who has this buddy system where you talk with others. We have become very good friends and I would like to think that it is because of me that she has come out and become alot stronger. She will be visiting me in Bangkok Thailand.
Meet someone who is outgoing and force yourself to meet others who are kind and safe. Transitioning in a countryide is more difficult but get a phone buddy. You can PM me if you wish.
I have tried with being more outgoing and my one other friend is very social and from time to time introduces me to people but I NEVER bond with any of them at all and lots of times he will go and spend more time with them then he ever does me, but regardless I'm just not very.. Compatible? With friendship. I can't be friends with guys because I feel very awkward around them and I can't be friends with girls because everyone thinks something of it because I'm a guy physically. Not to mention being pansexual doesn't help when I get a crush on just about everyone.. I'm just not sure what I can do.
Have you started on HRT? I ask that because females can sense the change in you.
I'm sorry, but what does HRT mean?
Quote from: JackieFox on August 03, 2015, 02:19:42 AM
I'm sorry, but what does HRT mean?
https://www.susans.org/wiki/Hormone_replacement_therapy
Okay, no, I am unable to pursue anything to help me be me at the moment because my parents are anti-trans and homophobic (my luck. :/)
Quote from: warlockmaker on August 03, 2015, 02:17:11 AM
Have you started on HRT? I ask that because females can sense the change in you.
My experience so far shows that they dont sense a thing :D
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on August 03, 2015, 03:09:10 AM
My experience so far shows that they dont sense a thing :D
Well it might be subtle...
people have reported men starting to hit on them after some time...
and women getting more open and communicative...
hugs
Quote from: JackieFox on August 03, 2015, 12:14:18 AM
How do I fit in with other girls without them knowing I am bi or trans? Okay, what I mean is, I'm a physical born male. But inside I am a woman. What I'm asking is, how can I make friends with girls without someone thinking I want to date them, and without them thinking I am gay? I mean, the people I am around are only people in my youth group at Church, and they would all most likely judge me for who I am, and I don't want that. Any advice or help is appreciated. :)
This is one of the issues that prompted me to transition in the end. There was no way to get people to understand that I was female - anyone with eyes or ears would quickly decide I was male. The interest in being connected with one's own gender is wired into our brains - It's part of gender identity and
we know how powerful that is. Things have been much better now that I've transitioned. Even women who know my history see me as friendship material now.
I do not think that women "sense" HRT, although your smell and body scent does change on HRT and the "male musk" smell disappears. I notice this smell from men whereas previously I did not.
HRT does change behaviour somewhat and the act of consciously transitioning also stops the repression that many of us use in male mode to hold everything in. I think that once you start becoming your more natural self and the HRT helps the dysphoria lift then others do respond to that. Your inner self begins to shine.
Having said all that, I recall that at my support group there was one person who had been on HRT for a while but still presented in a very masculine way. Strangers still used male pronouns to this person and as a result she could not form female / female friendships because women saw her as a male. She refused to feminise her appearance and mannerisms and was adamant that society should accept her. When I was introduced to her I assumed that she was either very early in MTF transition or possibly FTM. I was shocked to discover that she was several years post-op.
Quote from: vcjhyt on August 03, 2015, 05:40:44 AM
I do not think that women "sense" HRT, although your smell and body scent does change on HRT and the "male musk" smell disappears. I notice this smell from men whereas previously I did not.
Well imo people notice subconsciously.
There are people who say friends started hitting on them whereas before they were only buddies.
Their behaviour changed.
Imo they kind of notice a scent change, and of course further changes...
hugs
Quote from: Swayallday on August 03, 2015, 01:05:37 AM
But that only goes so far untill they notice you show a little bit too much interest.
That way people really start getting confused or think you're gay.
Maybe, not not always. I had two different girlfriends who indulged my "girlie side," who helped me transition. Oh, and I'm still close friends with both of them. :)
As the goal is friendship with girls, you first have to forget about what they think you are. People have to know how to relate to a person so at first they may think you are boy friend material or gay. As time goes on you will be reclassified as a friend and they won't worry about why.
You need to be polite, friendly and have a smile on your face when you are around them. If you have a conversation with them try to listen more than you speak and make the topic about them and not you. Show an interest in them and what they are doing. It is female to share but as you have had a male upbringing, the less you say about male things, the better.
Before I had my awakening, the female side of me caused me to do many of these things naturally and I learned indirectly from my mother and teacher that the girls in my class had voted me the nicest boy in my class. They do notice even if they don't say it to your face.
Quote from: Dena on August 03, 2015, 09:42:00 AM
... try to listen more than you speak and make the topic about them and not you.
I agree 200% on this one. Men seem to have to "win" the conversation. It does not work in female circles.
It's perfectly normal and very common for young trans people to struggle with making friends. We seem to find ourselves stuck between genders: being unable to function as male or female due to the conflict between our gender & our presentation can make it hard to find people with whom we have a lot in common. It's even more difficult if you've been homeschooled and haven't had a great deal of experience with the wide variety of different personalities you find in schools. And I'm sorry your parents aren't being supportive. But the good news is: it does get better. You'll move out in a couple of years' time, and you'll be able to choose your own path in life. It's just around the corner, so have faith in yourself and hold on to that thought.
As an undercover agent :icon_suspicious: who spent several decades trying to fit in with girls, I can offer the following advice:
- One of the best things you can do at this stage (i.e. whilst presenting as male) is to observe girls' interactions as much as possible. Watch TV shows about girls your age (Pretty Little Liars is a good example of teenage girls' interaction, imho); go to your local shopping centre/mall & sit in the Food Court, watching & listening to find out what the girls in your area are interested in; watch YouTube videos featuring the kind of girls you relate to. If you find anything there that sparks your interest, do some research so you have some idea what you're talking about, and try to gently add yourself into a conversation at an appropriate point, e.g. whilst waiting in a queue at the mall.
- On that subject, conversation amongst girls isn't like conversation amongst guys. Guys tend to talk about sports or their latest conquest; offer expert opinions; and try to dominate the conversation ('mansplaining' is a perfect example of this). Girls are typically all about shared experiences; in-group co-operation; being nice and aiming to be liked by your peer group. If another girl tries to dominate the conversation, she won't be generally liked by the girls around her. As you try to navigate your way into womanhood, it's a good idea to start by being careful with sharing your opinions until you feel confident in how to express them. Rather, see how the girls around you talk to each other and use that as your guide. Eventually, you'll figure out how to insert yourself into the conversation in an appropriate way.
- Girls are raised from an early age to see anyone they perceive as male as a potential threat. It's horrible (and growing up as a girl can be a very frightening experience for that reason), but it's the way things are. They're told that men are 'only after one thing', and that any guy should be perceived as a potential rapist. As they hit puberty and men start giving them unwelcome attention (it happens all the time; being constantly hit on by any & every guy can be very trying), these perceptions are cemented as a reality. So they learn to be defensive & guarded around anyone they perceive to be male, until they get to know them better. How do you fix that? Take your time, and speak to them in the way I've described above, don't make any passes at them (unless those seem particularly welcome) and they'll eventually see that you're not a threat.
- There's also the added problem of boyfriends: a lot of guys are insecure when their girlfriends hang out with anyone they perceive to be male, so girls might shy away because they don't want to anger their boyfriends. That's less likely to happen if your mannerisms are effeminate... but unfortunately that can attract a different set of problems. If you can, try to join a mixed group of boys & girls as this can help to minimise this threat.
- A good way to start a friendship with a girl, particularly whilst presenting as male, is by showing you have a good sense of humour. Making girls laugh is by far the best way for them to see you as a potential friend.
- The Internet is your friend. :) You can join lots of social media sites - particularly Tumblr - where you can search for Tumblrs that are of interest to girls your age, so that you can not only observe their interactions... but you can join in them. Having a female online presence is a great way to start practising your identity before you're able to undergo medical transition.
Quote from: FTMDiaries on August 03, 2015, 11:20:25 AM
Everything FTMDiaries just said
How do I give a plus one for this post? This was just absolutely, plain ol' fantastique! :D
Quote from: MugwortPsychonaut on August 03, 2015, 11:29:46 AM
How do I give a plus one for this post? This was just absolutely, plain ol' fantastique! :D
Just click on the green thumbs up below "reputation" on the left of the posting...
hugs
Good question Sade. Fitting in with any social group is facilitated by having confidence in yourself and being willing to listen and share honestly. I found myself to be much more comfortable in social situations as i gave up the guy act and became more honestly myself. With nothing to hide and no guarding of speech and mannerism our facade falls away. Being a bit more vulnerable with friends allows them to share on a deeper level too.
It is a major daily pleasure to share smiles and socialize with other women. Some who may have once thought "don't give him any attention or he'll hit on me" I think that is also part of the comfort many women have with hanging out with men who are gay. The sexual attraction agenda is off the table and quite a relief for some of us.
Having previously lived a long time with a testosterone fueled and male socialized persona I know a lot of guys really do spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about sexuality and how to get there. We are all responsible for appropriate social interactions no matter what level of libido and interest we may have. It sure feels better for me now.
Most of my close friends are women, and we were friends before I started to transition. It's cliche to say "just be yourself," but that's what worked for me. Granted, I'm in a wheelchair, which has two effects: 1) practically nobody will look at me as a sexual being, 2) I never show overt sexual interest in anyone because the odds of rejection are near 100%. Now, you probably won't have it as easy as me if you can walk, but if you can remove or minimize the presence of sexual tension, friendship should be easy. Find women who share in an interest, take part in that interest with them, and build from there.
I just naturally fit better with women and lately since I've gone full time, even more so.
It's a whole different world for me now though.
Men still exist but they are definitely in the background of my life. On entering any social situation it is the women that I gravitate towards. It just feels right that way.
Quote from: vcjhyt on August 03, 2015, 09:51:54 AM
Men seem to have to "win" the conversation. It does not work in female circles.
Apparently you haven't met my friend Maria. ::)
Quote from: Jill F on August 03, 2015, 10:58:17 PM
Apparently you haven't met my friend Maria. ::)
Indeed not.
To be perfectly honest I'm intimidated by both genders as I am extremely shy since I've gone most of my life with no friends and always struggled to make new ones. But thank you for all the advice. I'm actually over at my male friends house sleeping over tonight though. Sometimes he'll joke and call me a girl or something but deep down it makes me feel happier. I just wish I could sleep over with my best friend.. God I hate being a guy! ..sorry, very upset at the moment..
Be interesting.
Find things you like or haven't tried and go out and do them. Even if you're awkward, spend time doing cool stuff and you'll meet people along the way.
Then you can have a yoga/gym buddy, or artist friends or whatever it is you decide to go out and do. It's easy to be solitary if all you're hobbies involve a computer or TV. Even if it requires you getting a dog so you can get out in the world to walk him/her, there are plenty of things you can find to keep you active.
Also we ladies usually have a huge soft spot for cute pets. And I have on several occasions talked to a random guy that had an affectionate dog in tow.
Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from Katie's iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: JackieFox on August 03, 2015, 11:52:02 PM
Sometimes he'll joke and call me a girl or something but deep down it makes me feel happier.
I am guessing that many of us responded that same way. Of course I was one of those kids who was skinny and cared nothing for sports. Recess at our sports dominated school was all about some kind of ball play or king of the hill thing for the boys. I wanted to be on the girls playground where skipping a rope and intimate huddles of girls seemed so more compelling. Being called a girl or pussy by the boys and coach was paradoxically an intended insult for them and a weird secret truth for me. That taunt persisted into adulthood and I eventually replied with; So you don't like girls?
Yes, we are girls deep down and that truth can make us happier.
You won't believe this. I hung out with my best friend again today and some of her friends hung out with her and me today and it made me happy and normal.. I wish she knew about me though. I don't show my bi side TOO much around her but she was looking at a picture of a cute guy and I said he was hot and she was a bit shocked at first but then remembered that I was bi and she was fine with it. :)
I do believe you and that does sound fun. Most straight guys would never acknowledge another guy is hot so ya you did sort of out yourself a bit. ;D
A lot of girls find it easier to hang with guys who are gay or bi as there can be less dating sort of tension. Good for you! ;D
I have struggled most of my adult life to fit in as a man per se, although I had male and female friends I never felt part of either, was stuck in between.
I have been Straight, Gay and Bi in my search for the real me. It took years of soul searching to be where I am today a pre op woman. since I have finally made the 100% decision to be me, I have witnessed two sides of the coin.From the male perspective I am oddball, gayboy and a freak of nature, and standing 6ft tall and rather plump and with a face like chewing a wasp I understand their fears, from the female perspective I have had the odd look but in fact I have been accepted better by females.I don't overdress so as not to be in any ones face, though I dress as a woman.It is sometimes a lonely place and one has to pick oneself up and carry on, if they truly believe who they are. it does not matter if certain members of public do not accept you so long as you accept yourself you will survive. As Gloria Gaynor said. good luck in your journey maybe we will meet on the same path . x xx x