I keep on hearing many pre-op/non-op girls with F on their passport having problem with TSA scanners and in Airport in general. What if it's reverse?
But I'm just guessing what about mtf post-op which is written M on their passport? Do they have same problems too?
I'm post-op and in my country they will never change the gender on my passport from M to F cos they are 3rd world. In my case what am I suppose to do? What if this happens with the TCA scanner?
I'd not worry about it. The are not looking for transgender people, and don't care about you. Its embarrassing is all.
It's possible you they might create scene, or do something inappropriate, but that's always the chance at airports for anyone, and its unlikely. I've been though international airports many times, including the USA, presenting male and with breasts that show up on scanners. Not one's ever said a word.
In the USA it's not a problem. Just tell them you're transgender if the machine pings and they need to do a pat down. Do it discreetly if you're stealth. They are trained to work with us. The body scanner will ping your bra if you have one and they configure the machine for a male. If they configure it as female it will only ping if you have your original parts and even then if it's tucked good enough it won't. Unfortunately in my case I did a half assed job of tucking and it pinged. Since you're postop you're fine.
TSA seems to just goes by how you present rather than the passport itself so if you're postop and they read you as a female you won't have issues.
I'd be curious to know how often TSA agents and the machines are getting things wrong on cis folks. It must happen from time to time. You'd think this would cause a lot more upset too because cis people wouldn't be used to being gendered wrong or being told their body 'doesn't look right'.
Quote from: Evolving Beauty on August 04, 2015, 10:59:49 AM
In my case what am I suppose to do? What if this happens with the TCA scanner?
The TSA scanners can't read your passport.
If you are Post-Op and traveling as a female, you shouldn't have any issues unless they set the scanner to "male."
Quote from: Violet Bloom on August 05, 2015, 11:27:05 AM
I'd be curious to know how often TSA agents and the machines are getting things wrong on cis folks. It must happen from time to time. You'd think this would cause a lot more upset too because cis people wouldn't be used to being gendered wrong or being told their body 'doesn't look right'.
I've seen a few manual pat downs on presumably cis folks at JFK, so yes, it happens.
Et all,
A recent incident inOrlando Fl occurred with a MTF individual who was delayed patted down twice and at one point told they would have to present as the gender on their documents. This occurred September 2015. The TSA receive training on how to handle TG people but the knowledge level of the particular agents involved may not be as expected. This made the local news so it will come up on google if you do a search.
I have worked at the airport my entire life and have under go background and security checks regularly, in the USA Homeland security can flag you if you're documents do not match your apparent gender. If you are in transition or are even post op, the gender you use to buy your ticket must match the documents you present to TSA. If everything matches on paper tickets and documents you should simply be able to inform the agent Of your status a letter from Dr concerning your HRT or surgeries may be helpful to have available if absolutely needed. It is not procedurally required and should not be needed.
Only a simple pat down search is procedure at this time to resolve the physical differences between the scan and ID. I just did this yesterday with an agent it was no problem. We are different they are looking for differences that's all. Nothing to worry about just have the correct documents and like every other government agency they'll just move on to the next passenger.
I can't stress enough if you're legal status gender on your documents is different from you tickets you will raise all the flags. This is what triggered the ugly event at Orlando.
Bring all your docs keep everything straight and everything should go smoothly if not that's what the letters are for.
Quote from: Evolving Beauty on August 04, 2015, 10:59:49 AM
I'm post-op and in my country they will never change the gender on my passport from M to F cos they are 3rd world.
Well if you present F and tell them its a mistake, it should be F ? :)
Laura, I don't know how it may be handled in your country, I have gone to the airport security office or called when I thought an issue would arise. I'm assuming they may have encountered something of sort before and I would just tell them upfront to avoid a public embarrassing situation.
That's just my way everyone has to do what they are comfortable with. If there are no X-Ray body scans being done in your country then then only issue may be are they used in the destination country? If not then the issue may be no issue at all. If you find them using and X-Ray scanner then informing them before the scan may make things go smoother. They just want to get their job done and letting them know the situation will make that go smoother for everyone.
My comments about documents apply to the USA and that of course does not apply to everyone on the forum, just if you are going to travel through TSA security and the documents gender does not match it is a good idea to let them know and why because once an alert is triggered it is too late. If they know upfront what's going on they can set the machine to minimize any issues, for all concerned.
Quote from: Samantha C on September 24, 2015, 05:36:26 PM
Laura, I don't know how it may be handled in your country, I have gone to the airport security office or called when I thought an issue would arise. I'm assuming they may have encountered something of sort before and I would just tell them upfront to avoid a public embarrassing situation.
I was talking about the issuing personnel.
If its a 3rd world country things might be talked about.
Maybe from a distance... like presenting photos... direct presenting might be no good idea in this case...
Ahhhh! I see your point. I can think of several countries which it would be a very bad idea indeed to even consider disclosing this.
Quote from: Samantha C on September 24, 2015, 01:49:44 PM
Et all,
A recent incident inOrlando Fl occurred with a MTF individual who was delayed patted down twice and at one point told they would have to present as the gender on their documents. This occurred September 2015. The TSA receive training on how to handle TG people but the knowledge level of the particular agents involved may not be as expected. This made the local news so it will come up on google if you do a search.
I am reserving judgment on that particular case because I am hearing multiple stories and it is actively under investigation. However, I do really believe the TSA acted improperly. But I can't say that with any certainty, and certainly when they dealt with me they were professional.
QuoteI have worked at the airport my entire life and have under go background and security checks regularly, in the USA Homeland security can flag you if you're documents do not match your apparent gender. If you are in transition or are even post op, the gender you use to buy your ticket must match the documents you present to TSA. If everything matches on paper tickets and documents you should simply be able to inform the agent Of your status a letter from Dr concerning your HRT or surgeries may be helpful to have available if absolutely needed. It is not procedurally required and should not be needed.
While that is true, for the full body scanner they look at you and set the machine for how you present. They don't look at your docs. The only place that happened to me was in Korea, which is not the TSA, obviously, where it was going swimmingly until they looked at my passport at the security scanner.
QuoteI can't stress enough if you're legal status gender on your documents is different from you tickets you will raise all the flags. This is what triggered the ugly event at Orlando.
That would explain a lot, if true. Is that confirmed anywhere though? That's the first I'm hearing of it.
I flew earlier this year, first time ever since transitioning and like no problems at all. I was super paranoid that something would go wrong and I'd be embarrassed in front of everyone but nope it was a breeze.
In the US, evidently the agent looks at you and either pushes a blue or pink button based on their visual assessment of your gender. Your ID does not factor in with the xray machine, just your appearance. This is how I understand it works anyway.
If they are unsure, they can do like they did to my friend this summer and joke aloud that they "think they got it right."
I recently had FFS and went full time while all my documents still show male and have my old pics, but I flew the other day for the first time since with zero problems. However I have Global Entry/Precheck, so I obviously don't go through the scanners or deal with the full security theater hassle.
FWIW I do look convincingly female.
The issue is has been requested to be investigated and the event itself automatically triggers an investigation from outside the local station whether it is requested or not. I stated only my personal opinion based on the high turnover and the likelihood that the TSA screener did not may have been new or did not understand procedure and mishandled the process. His supervisor could have defused the situation and did not either, so I agree there will be some out come to this that will not be good for the TSA individuals involved.
The apparent gender issue arose at Orlando specifically due to the type of scanners installed their detection capability and the fact the passenger did not inform the person operating it of there status not the docs. The docs came into play once the scanner trigger anomalies causing them to be reviewed again. Not all scanners have the same capability. So I'm afraid passing through 50 times may happen and something like this once it's hard to say.
The information was tweeted and published by the local news that she would have to go through as the gender on the documents this is the point the TSA broke it's own procedures and will most likely get in hot water. In aviation we have an expression for this we call it "Over rotating" it means the pilot pulled back too far on takeoff and drags the tail of the aircraft on the ground, and yeah there's a device called a tail skid to protect the aircraft from the pilots mistake. In this case TSA appears to have over rotated quite a bit.
My understanding from TSA people I've talked to is policy is to accept the gender as presented. One told me of a case where they had a large bearded man come through in some type of female toddler style outfit, and they treated him like a woman. I've had a friend have this same issue, except when she explained it to TSA they ended up all having a good laugh.
ErinS, yeah that sounds like the way it should happen. Thanks for sharing
Quote from: Samantha C on September 24, 2015, 01:49:44 PM
Et all,
A recent incident inOrlando Fl occurred with a MTF individual who was delayed patted down twice and at one point told they would have to present as the gender on their documents. This occurred September 2015. The TSA receive training on how to handle TG people but the knowledge level of the particular agents involved may not be as expected. This made the local news so it will come up on google if you do a search.
I have worked at the airport my entire life and have under go background and security checks regularly, in the USA Homeland security can flag you if you're documents do not match your apparent gender. If you are in transition or are even post op, the gender you use to buy your ticket must match the documents you present to TSA. If everything matches on paper tickets and documents you should simply be able to inform the agent Of your status a letter from Dr concerning your HRT or surgeries may be helpful to have available if absolutely needed. It is not procedurally required and should not be needed.
Only a simple pat down search is procedure at this time to resolve the physical differences between the scan and ID. I just did this yesterday with an agent it was no problem. We are different they are looking for differences that's all. Nothing to worry about just have the correct documents and like every other government agency they'll just move on to the next passenger.
I can't stress enough if you're legal status gender on your documents is different from you tickets you will raise all the flags. This is what triggered the ugly event at Orlando.
Bring all your docs keep everything straight and everything should go smoothly if not that's what the letters are for.
What about being intersexed and have no gender.
Quote from: Amy1988 on October 01, 2015, 08:31:13 PM
What about being intersexed and have no gender.
The Government right now only recognizes binary gender. Hopefully that will change with time and education.