I've always been fascinated planets and things in space. A recent History channel documentary discussed the Big Bang theory and how a multitude of scientists led us to the realization that the universe started around 13.7 billion years ago and our solar system started around 4 billion years ago. The show ended with the theory that our solar system is doomed in about 5 billion years...the earth, like the other planets closest to the sun, will eventually drift towards the sun and burn up.
The destruction is a long time from now and it obviously won't affect me. Heck, the world will probably be destroyed by humanity's stupidity long before then. Or, in 5 billion years, man will find ways of reaching and inhabiting distant solar systems. Still, our solar system's demise came as a sad surprise. Whether it's by "intelligent design" or by evolutionary accident, I kind of hoped we were meant to be here -- that human society had a purpose other than being a momentary flash in the timeline of the universe.
I truly enjoy looking up at night and seeing the stars. The light from them, so they say, is like looking into the past. I think of the ancients and how a few people like Copernicus and Galileo challenged the common agreed-upon principle: the planets and sun rotate around the earth. That Galileo, a Catholic, was forced by the Inquisition to live out his last days under house arrest seems unbelievable. Stephen Hawking and Einstein both consider him to be the father of modern science and physics. And since Galileo, it's truly remarkable what unrelenting scientists have come up with -- the idea, for example, that you can tell how far a galaxy is by how bright it is -- amazing.
As TS's are faced with fighting today's preconceptions/stereotypes regarding gender, I think of brave people like Galileo. And when I look up at the stars, I think of the magic of all that we don't know yet in the universe.
What is magical to you?
Teri Anne
Hi Teri Anne
My belief is that once one gets into the quantum physics of the structure of this universe down to it's tiniest particles, but then what is or how do you define the tiniest particles? At the level of the tiniest particle the space in between atoms become like an immense empty voids between other tiny particles where the process repeats itself again and again ad infinitum. Each just like their larger replica. *In relativity* that is. I also believe that metaphysics follows not far behind quantum physics, actually even may walk hand in hand with one another.
As for the big bang I would have to say that some type of intelligence had to have been it's creation. Everything that we now see in the universe was in the primordial soup of the big bang, everything was there to create what we see in the universe today galaxies, stars , and planets all living things all the way on down to the amoeba. For several decades it was predicted that the rotation of the galaxies around the universal center would slow down and eventually fall back to the universal center. Well now I believe it was Mr Hawkins himself and other researchers have discovered that this was not so. That universe is indeed still expanding outwards and at an increasing speed
Now what is this phenomena that is causing this which for many centuries astronomers believed was supposed to be the reverse of what is taking place today? Large masses of dark energy, they call it. They call it dark energy because they can not detect it even with the most advanced observatories we have today. They discovered this phenomena by what they call inference. How one body affects another. So it appears that this dark energy is repelling the galaxies away from the Universal center. If this is so then all the galaxies and stars we see out there today will simply drift apart and fade away into the infinite cosmos.
All of this reality is but a flash in time but what about the metaverses and multiple universes infinite in their number. The tiny microbes they call humans on this planet may very well destroy them selves and the planet, but intelligent sentient beings will always be around.
Thank you much Teri Ann for the mental gymnastics, Cindy takes hat with long plume off and bows respectably to Teri Ann ;D
I was hopping to run into one of your postings. ;D
Cindy
Einstein believed in a unified theory in a spiritual sense, which under vague interpretation could be considered God.
We are limited in our creativity to our experience and all recorded from those before us. Our senses are not equipped to recognize other things that are happening in our sphere and beyond. Where evidence leaves off imagination forges on. But even imagination is limited. Perhaps the universe is not limited. The string theory has a interesting idea that there are 6 more dimensions but we have no way at the present time of detecting them. The best I can do is admit that there are things I do not know and be open to understanding them.
Thank you Cindy and Lisagurl for your insightful postings. I marvel at how intelligent many TS's are, contrary to television's stereotypes.
Cindy, I agree with you that the only logical conclusion we can make is that there was "some type of intelligence" behind the universe's creation. The world is just too complex, too beautiful for random evolution alone to do this. Some scientists say, "but you're not taking into account that it's 13.7 billion years of universe evolution." I'm not convinced. Though I don't have strong faith (and particularly don't like organized religions), I can't understand, if random evoloution of billions of years is responsible, why is earth seems like such an anomaly? Granted, there could be millions of other earth-like planets in other galaxies but, given they may have started a one to nine billion years before us (given our solar system is 4 billion years old and the universe is 13.7 billion years old), why aren't they broadcasting their existence?
Scientists seem to agree that the universe started as a very small, very dense, very heavy object in the middle of nothing (??). What was this nothing? Do scientists attempt to explaini this? Why did the universe BANG? Why bang then? -- why not earlier or later? I guess wondering about this stuff is like the "chicken and the egg question, which came first?" The biggest puzzle to me is the lack of theories as to what happened BEFORE the big bang. I wonder if there was a universe BEFORE our universe -- it collapsed into a ball and then re-exploded into what we term "the big bang." If that were true, maybe there has always been a universe.
The documentary I mentioned showed how the scientists were able to tell, by measuring distance of galaxies, that the universe is expanding. Because it's expanding, I guess that distant galaxies we may want to reach someday are getting further and further away. But we'll probably figure out the time/energy thing, lol.
Lisagurl, you mentioned how our senses are not equipped to recognize a lot of things. Yes, I've wondered why we got more than some creatures and less than others. Perhaps we don't need the eyesight of an eagle to survive, but wouldn't a cro-magnin man with better eyesight or faster feet have caught his lunch animal easier and thus survived better than the slower near-sighted cro-magnin? And why is it that some animals are able to regrow arms/legs while we cannot. Why didn't evolution give us that talent, also?
You say you admit to not knowing some things but are open to understanding them. Bill Maher quoted Bertrand Russell on his Sept. 7 show:
"Bertrand Russell said, "The trouble with the world is the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent full of doubt." And then rewrote that quote 56 more times. Doubt, for lack of a better word, is good. It suits human nature. Doubt is what makes you careful. Doubt is what makes you open to change. Doubt is why Eddie Murphy took a DNA test."
Teri Anne
Quote from: Teri Anne on September 12, 2007, 12:47:23 PM
Cindy, I agree with you that the only logical conclusion we can make is that there was "some type of intelligence" behind the universe's creation. The world is just too complex, too beautiful for random evolution alone to do this. Some scientists say, "but you're not taking into account that it's 13.7 billion years of universe evolution." I'm not convinced. Though I don't have strong faith (and particularly don't like organized religions), I can't understand, if random evoloution of billions of years is responsible, why is earth seems like such an anomaly? Granted, there could be millions of other earth-like planets in other galaxies but, given they may have started a one to nine billion years before us (given our solar system is 4 billion years old and the universe is 13.7 billion years old), why aren't they broadcasting their existence?
I would agree with you except that evolution is not random...
I don't think there was any intelligence behind the creation of the universe for the same reason you think there is. The universe is too complicated, and too beautiful for intelligence to have created it.
I don't think earth is such an anomaly either. It is not like we can go out and see what all the other planets are like. If there were 'aliens' and they had the technology to reach us then I think we would be nothing more than bugs to them and beneath their notice.
My theory is that if you could magnify things enough you would see another universe, and that if you could view enough of our universe at once you would see that our universe is just a particle in a glass of water within another universe. :icon_chew:
Hi NickSister
Ok now you took the words right out of my mouth about aliens and bugs, I believe much of your theory is quite possible but have we not already in the past century, at least documented, had many observations of phenomena's that defy our understanding? But then we do not know where these phenomena come from. They could just as easily be from another reality in another dimension or from some distant planet out there in another galaxy. Either way they would have the intelligence and technology so far more advanced then us that they could have the capability to travel through time and space or interdenominationaly in energy form instantaneously. Most reports of sightings of this nature these objects appear to not be completely solid, like they were more of energy than solid.
I do like your theory about a perpetual universe but then as complex as the universe is and as to how harmonious everything works. A star grows old dies and goes supernova, then a giant gas nebula is formed where in new stars are born. A constant recycling? I agree but for a system so complex as the universe is would it be impossible for it to come about randomly or by chance? Maybe the universe itself is the intelligence that keeps all things within itself in harmony.
Has anyone heard of supervised evolution? How would you explain how all the right elements and chemical compositions required to even make a simple once celled amoeba? How did all these elements of life or seeds of life find a world with the right elements just right to support life and thrive and evolve? You want to bet there are other planets out there that have the right environment to support life on. It is theorised that even if there was only one such planet in each galaxy we see out there had one such planet they would number in the billions.
I have also read about another theory of how the big bang came about. Parallel universes in collision. The multi verses would number at least as much as there are dimensions which no one as yet is certain about that. Some say there are 9 dimensions in a cosmic string, others theorise there might be as many as 32 dimensions in a string. Well what about infinite dimensions?
I like the theory of the universe collapsing into a very dense ball which eventually becomes so dense that it can only go two ways, collapse in on itself and create a super black hole or like a star going nova, explodes outwards once more. I am not going to get into black holes, but I have many different theories I have drawn about them through the years. Isn't it great to be retired? gives one more time to follow up on this kind of thing. The only problem is finding people that can follow you down that rabbit hole. ;D
Our senses to be able to experience these things are only hampered by how deep down the rabbit hole are you ready to go. There are a few people in this world that are quite, not just knowledgeable of these phenomena but are actually tuned into them and yet we are only still observing the tip of the ice berg.
I have another group whose members are mostly GG's and even myself I was surprised how tuned in those girls are.
Doubt is the biggest downfall of us all, doubt blocks the light of understanding and enlightenment. There cannot be positive thoughts and enlightenment in the same room as doubt.
Cynthia
We developed wits which lead us to survival without other special talents. I had Carl Sagan for a class at SUNY SB called "Intelligent life in the Universe". He explained that there had to be life in places with similar conditions as ours. Perhaps they do not have to have transmitters that work like ours with magnetic waves. Plus the Universe is so large that it would take billions of years to search the whole thing for a signal. We just have not found anything yet. We have found other planets around other suns.
Hi lisagurl
Goodness I hate typo's especially when one misses them on the reread.
Adaptation. Goodness knows, just a little trip into fantasy. This planet becomes unlivable and we move to Mars and somehow return it to it's original state, a water world and we all evolve into mermaids, now that's a nice thought but proves a point about adaptation. Even in the Bible in Revelations it talks about a new earth and a new heavens. Hmmmm. makes you wonder. There are just to many synchronisities that take place each day to be discarded as chance happenings. I believe that if we were all to learn how to connect on the grid this new Earth and and Heavens could be manifested with the power of our own minds. Even right now, how much of the future are we manifesting through our own decisions that we make today?
No they would not need transmitters, as I metioned above they may have been communicating with us for millenniums through our own thoughts, We would only need to still our minds and listen to the little voice within. We are all connected as one within the Onenes of universe including any other intelligent life forms out there.
Cynthia
Posted on: September 12, 2007, 06:11:34 PM
There is also all that radio static noise from the stars and galaxies that this static noise would do a pretty good job of scattering an intelligent radio wave and even filtering out the static, how much would be left that is decipherable? Also it would take a radio wave millions of years to reach a distant planet in another galaxy and then take into consideration that one is actually seeing that galaxy from millions of years in the past. That planet may have long been laid to waste and no intelligent life remains there. One would have a better chance if they were to point their radio telescopes towards the inner galaxies, the ones further into the universal center where the planetary systems there would be much younger.
Cynthia
Posted on: September 12, 2007, 06:35:07 PM
Our own radio signals from their earliest broadcasts may be just about now reaching the closest star to us, Proxima Centauri. Prauxima Centauri children maybe just now be sitting down to what ever approximation to TV they have watching the first release of Mickey Mouse. ;D "hee, hee."
Cindy
I like a little humor to.
I think that, at any rate, it is unlikely there ever will be a scientific answer to a lot of that. It is pop-enlightenment gibberish to think that one day, scientists will answer everything. If you asked any cosmologist whether they thought they could tell you what came "before" the Big Bang, they'd stare at you as if you had two heads. (hint, there is no before; time is a property of the universe.)
Science and theology are separate disciplines. Religions do not "disprove" science, nor does science disprove religion. Any good scientist will surely tell you that any new knowledge gained by science opens a whole pandora's box full of new questions. The more we know, the more fully we are aware of how small our pool of knowledge truly is.
Science will not disprove faith. Faith is starved of its value when literalists and syncretists wrongly cast it at odds with science. As Einstein himself said, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Cynthia, you said it would "take a radio wave MILLIONS of years to reach a distant planet in another galaxy and then take into consideration that one is actually seeing that galaxy from MILLIONS of years in the past."
But that's just MILLIONS of years for the radio waves to reach us -- as I mentioned, it could be that the earliest planets in the universe were formed 9 BILLION years before us (being the universe is 13.7 billion years old and we're only 4 billion)
I say to them, what's the holdup, lol?
You may have a point about there being a lot of radio noise that might interfere. But, if that's the case, why are scientists still listening? They must have hope.
Cynthia, you said you were "retired." Did you work in the scientific field? You seem to know a lot about it.
Nicksister, you said, "If there were 'aliens' and they had the technology to reach us then I think we would be nothing more than bugs to them and beneath their notice."
Perhaps. I just note that our cleverest minds at Nasa would be EXTREMELY excited to find even a one-celled animal on Mars or one of Jupiter's moons. Scientists love scientific discovery -- they don't need to talk to the bugs to find them fascinating. Heck, even discovery of a dry lake bed makes their day.
Butterfly, you mentioned, "If you asked any cosmologist whether they thought they could tell you what came "before" the Big Bang, they'd stare at you as if you had two heads. (hint, there is no before; time is a property of the universe.)"
Again, perhaps. But no scientist ever WENT anywhere without pondering possibilities. Scientists like to seek things they can PROVE so, if they can't find any CSI evidence to lead them into a certain direction then, yes, it's like you say -- they're stopped dead.
Some of you have mentioned the world inside a world thing. I'm sure that many of you have pondered that possibility even though we have yet to SEE it. I do remember a lot of "Twilight Zone" episodes dealt with life or worlds in different dimensions. A show waaaay ahead of its time.
A general question: What is the easiest way to learn planets/stars/navigation? I thought I heard of some toy recently that you align to certain coordinates and it can then tell you where all the stars and mythological things (like the big dipper) are. How did you learn star navigation?
Then, when I get my sailboat, we can follow the stars. All aboard!
Teri Anne
Quote from: Teri Anne on September 13, 2007, 02:11:37 AM
A general question: What is the easiest way to learn planets/stars/navigation? I thought I heard of some toy recently that you align to certain coordinates and it can then tell you where all the stars and mythological things (like the big dipper) are. How did you learn star navigation?
Teri Anne
Teri Anne,
Get a star chart. They cost 10 dollars or less. Then got out under the stars and learn the names of the bright ones. Compare the asterisms against your chart and you'll learn the constellations.
The ancients weren't brilliant astronomers. They just spent their nights under the stars instead of in front of the boob tube. The saw and learned the patterns of the seasons. They told stories and shared their experiences. It's not hard, really.
Cindi
Quote from: Teri Anne on September 13, 2007, 02:11:37 AM
I say to them, what's the holdup, lol?
Or, as the physics Nobel laureate Enrico Fermi put it in 1950 or so, "Where is everybody?". For some suggested answers, do a google search on 'Fermi paradox'.
Quote
Butterfly, you mentioned, "If you asked any cosmologist whether they thought they could tell you what came "before" the Big Bang, they'd stare at you as if you had two heads. (hint, there is no before; time is a property of the universe.)"
Again, perhaps. But no scientist ever WENT anywhere without pondering possibilities. Scientists like to seek things they can PROVE so, if they can't find any CSI evidence to lead them into a certain direction then, yes, it's like you say -- they're stopped dead.
Well, not quite.
About time and space: like Butterfly says, they are properties of the universe. In that sense the questions 'what happened before the universe came to be' and 'what's outside the universe' are meaningless: the concepts of
before and
outside themselves depend on conditions that apply only to the universe. Generalising the concept of
outside so that there could be an 'outside' of our universe is a weird and non-obvious exercise, and would require more background in math and theoretical physics than I have.
About science and proving things: sort of. Science is essentially an iterative process where one looks at observations (or other raw data), tries to figure what's going on, forms a hypothesis or theory about how things work, makes new observations (ideally designed to check whether the hypothesis works), and so on. The scientific community has been running variations of this circle for some centuries (or even a couple of millennia, depending on how you look at it), and there's no reason to believe it will stop in the future. A theory is not 'truth' in any absolute sense, but rather a new theory is better at explaining the world than the previous theory was.
For instance, relativity theory is better at explaining how things work in a very large scale than Newtonian mechanics was. Similarly, Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection was better at explaining the observed biodiversity than the previous creationist theory (and yes, until about the second half of 19th century it was still mainstream science to state that God created everything). Still, neither of these is an absolute truth: there are none in science, ever.
Quote
A general question: What is the easiest way to learn planets/stars/navigation? I thought I heard of some toy recently that you align to certain coordinates and it can then tell you where all the stars and mythological things (like the big dipper) are. How did you learn star navigation?
First, learn to recognise the stars. There are lots of star atlases around, both electronic and paper ones; get one, study it, and watch the sky. Even paper atlases written for the casual observer have information on which way you should turn the map at which times on which dates; this sort of thing is of course easier with the computer ones, where you can enter the time and coordinates and get a picture that should look like the sky just then and there.
In order to get from knowing the stars to actual navigation, you'll need to know (or learn) some basic math, plus some formulae ultimately derived from spherical trigonometry and celestial mechanics. Going all the way back to the astronomical basis is a bit overkill, though, so the best bet is to find a book on navigation. ;)
Nfr
Hi Teri Anne
Don't need the canoe, just let me know where the biggest parking lot nearest to your place is and I'll come to pick you up with my starship. My starship is called imagination. One can go anywhere in imagination, there are no limits to the visions that one can have in imagination.
No I didn't work as a scientist I'm afraid I am just a retired Social Worker. But science has been my biggest burn in my life and having an insatiable inquisitiveness, or nosiness about me. "hee, hee." So I read a lot of books and did a lot of research on the web when I got a computer. As you have already said it has been only in recent years that researchers have discovered planets around some of the stars. The planets themselves are undetectable with even the most powerful instruments from this distance from them. They have discovered them by inference like what affect one celestial body has on another. The inference here is by the stars wobble, like how fast or slow that star wobbles gives the researchers an idea as to how much mass this planet has and how close to the star the orbiting planet is.
Seems to be that much of the research into the cosmos is to a greater percentage done by inference. Very little in the way of scientific theories of any anomalies in the cosmos has been proven as factual and this would be the reason scientists are reluctant in letting any cats, in this case, theories out of any cosmic bags prematurely. Or it could be that there are many cover ups that is not being allowed to even trickle out into the daylight of main stream of society. Like I believe there is life on Mars but they are quite tight lipped about letting this information get out to the general public . It took NASA 35 years to admit there was once water on Mars and lots of it. Ever since the advent of HIRISE there has been numerous different places discovered on Mars surface where great glaciers still exist there today.
[Quote....(hint, there is no before; time is a property of the universe.)"....Unquote]
Time is illusion, without time there is no distance, just like yesterday today and tomorrow are the integral of each other. We are just at this very second one heartbeat in infinity, or for This very second you are infinite within infinity.
[Quote....I just note that our cleverest minds at NASA would be EXTREMELY excited to find even a one-celled animal on Mars or one of Jupiter's.....[Unquote]
Yes I have heard that when ever Einstein mad a discovery he would dance a little jig around a work bench in excitement.
I believe that any scientist or researcher that have this insatiable thirst for discovery and inventing. such a mind must still retain much of the inner child within.
[Quote....What is the easiest way to learn planets/stars/navigation? .....[Unquote]
A good quality telescope, the type that you can mount a camera to and set up on a tripod. Least ways that was how I did my star gazing. Make a search on the web, they pretty ell have anything you might be seeking on the web.
About my being sharp on this type of topic, I asked my soul mate if she put razor blades in my soup. She said, heavens no, I would never do that. I put thumb tacks in your cereal this morning. ;D
Cindy
Hmm.
I find it interesting that when some don't understand something or find an issue inconceivable there is a tendency to create reasons for why something has to be.
The universe is obviously there for we are a part of it yet when it comes to how it got there or how it "Became" it is obvious that it's creation is beyond our thinking/mental ability. One just has to try and comprehend where the universe ends and it is quickly apparent that we are unable to work this out. Many create a being/entity who could have created this universe that satisfies our need for an answer. Scientists have developed several theories as to it's creation based on the knowledge and facts that they have discovered or determined from their research to for their answers.
All of this is ultimately based on human thinking so why is this thinking correct who are we to say how the universe was created.
Just some casual thoughts.
Steph
Since gravity warps time and space we do not know the extreme of this phenomena beyond the guesses of a black hole.
Our culture and history dictate the questions we ask. It is hard to even imagine what another life form in a different age and environment might be doing or thinking if indeed they think. Our thoughts do seem to have some form of other input that creates a thing but not explained or truly understood. Quantum mechanics is the science of trying to figure out the workings of these small reactions that snowball into consciousness.
I hesitate to use the concept of God to explain things. Beliefs change with experiences. Beliefs might be good for the soul but they do not provide a growing intelligentsia with answers that stimulate more questions. As far as an absolute truth, that is only a theory the best we can do is probability.
Quote from: Butterfly on September 13, 2007, 12:29:56 AM
disprove faith. Faith is starved of its value when literalists and syncretists wrongly cast it at odds with science. As Einstein himself said, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
[/quote I think you got the Einstein quote wrong. I won't go into details because i would be going off topic.
Hi Steph
I like your thoughts on this, and I am enjoying this thread been a while since I have got into a discussion like this, kind of a cleaning out of the cerebral cobwebs.
Quote......it is obvious that it's creation is beyond our thinking/mental ability......
I agree with that statement, We will never know at least not in physicality. I to do my best to stay out of the religious propositions, it is like politics where participants end up throwing rotten veggies at one another. I will sometimes refer to a Bible quotation that may have a parallel to the topic at hand, but a Bible pusher I am not.
Like I said earlier all that we have is a database of finding and recording from an a limited assortment of research paraphernalia only a fly speck orbit from the home planet to study these phenomena that are billions of miles away.
Yes the universe is to complex for our finite mind to fully comprehend but then do we really need to understand it fully? I believe the understanding is built up through the years from the ground up into infinity. But then time is an illusion and there cannot be distance without time. If one was to invert time and space on itself you would have a paradox that they call the overlapping of dimensions. If each dimension is overlapped then it could very well be that beginning overlaps the ending so that there is no beginning or end.
Ever notice? There is only a couple of paragraphs on creation in the Bible? Who as a finite being describe what is infinite? You need to fill in the blanks yourself, not just in the Bible but in much of what we discover each day. coming up with new theories to replace the old, always progressively changing and redefining itself.
Cindy
Thank you all for your posts. It's all very interesting and I'm learning!
I'll have to get one of those constellation maps.
I had said that I thought scientists WOULD be interested in what happened before the "big bang" but presumed they don't talk about it because facts or measurements are unatainable. I still think that's true but I hadn't considered what you'all said: that science is based on theories backed up by observational "truths." And new observations can whack any theory. Thus science isn't pure truth but is the truth of this moment in time, as we so far see it.
That Venus can appear in different shapes like our moon (crescent, half, full) was, as many of you know, the observational clue that Galileo had to prove the planets go around the sun rather than around the earth. I'm guessing that that "truth" ain't gonna be changed anytime soon, lol.
While I believe evolution to be true (so far), it's is a hard thing to grasp. While I realize that the billions of years explains how we came to be, it seems strange that (1) apes are still around (why didn't they evolve too?) and (2) that other advanced animals, especially dolphins, dogs, and octopi, can't, well, talk to us (dolphins and dogs obviously communicate with their own kind). I guess it may be a bit off-topic (but I started the post, lol!). On the other hand, evolution of animals can be considered part of universe creation. But, as you all state, the observations by scientists, so far, back this one up. Another of life's amazing theories.
And I can ponder what scientists cannot (because there are no observations to be had)... It's not that I "need" an answer but, rather, enjoy thinking about things that puzzle me. For example, it's odd that the universe supposedly has an "end" (and, as we discussed, "it's expanding"). This "end" of the universe observation reminds me of the talk during the middle ages where people thought the world was flat and that you would fall off the edge if you went too far. Isn't it just as likely that there's one or maybe millions of OTHER universes out there, just beyond where we determine the "edge" of our universe is located? We just don't have the telescopes or equipment to SEE beyond the supposed empty void at the edge of our universe. Just remember, you heard it here first folks, lol!
(RING, RING)
Oop, wait...I think that's the Nobel people on the phone for me!
Teri Anne
Hi Teri Anne
"Hee, hee," I missed out on the Nobel People, I was preoccupied with an interview with The National Inquirer.
About evolution, to the best of my knowledge no one has ever been able to locate that missing link from the higher order primates to the Neanderthal man. The trail from Neanderthal to Cro-magnon, ostensibly the first human to walk upright with a more evolved mind, is pretty clear, as is on to Homo Sapiens. Prior to the Neanderthal is all a thick fog. Genetics may have had a big roll in this and adaptation, but then what was it that induced our genetics to change? To this day we still have some the genetic strands that go all the way back to those primitive times, some identify them as inactive genetic strands . Was there some sort of genetic manipulation in progress all the way back in the earliest day of Cro-magnon man? Could this be the missing link? If so then who and what was it that did the genetic manipulation? Could it be that we were a product of supervised evolution by a yet higher intelligence then us? Our neighbors from another galaxy? Now I know I am stretching it a bit, but I have always marveled that the best part of the human psych is *imagination*, especially children. :angel:
Indeed why are we the highest advanced cerebrally compared to all of the other species on this planet? As for other universe beyond this one I have entertained that thought many times myself. *Imagination* You are now departing this universe and look back and it appears like a gigantic swirling galaxy then you turn to look forward and you see a vista of other stars like the stars we see in the sky at night except they are not stars, they are universes a multitude of them all over the not so empty void. And you then add all the multiverses in other dimensions ad-infinitum.
Cindy
Hi Cindy,
I like your imagination!
Supervised evolution might explain why we lucked out and the dolphins/dogs/octopi didn't. Hopefully our supposed genius will lead us away from the stupidity of humanity, war and global warming being a couple issues. I'm sure that you've heard the Einstein quote, "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Popular Science magazine mentioned that some scientists have tested putting garlic in cows' food - it apparently reduces methane (much more dangerous than CO2) by 50%. They're seeing if the garlic is tasteable in the milk. So, maybe we're on the way to partly solving that one.
Richard Branson was asked, if he could solve any problem, what he would like to solve. He said "war." Guess that's a harder one to solve.
Cindy, I loved your VISION of travelling beyond our galaxy and seeing more stars -- only "they are universes a multitude of them all over the not so empty void."
If our hunch is true, then maybe the "big bang" isn't the big deal we make it up to be. With this line of thought, we needn't worry why and when our universe suddenly came to be -- Our universe might just be a MINOR explosive action in a small part of the multi-universes space. A multi-universes reality is endless in both TIME and SPACE, having no beginning and no end. Existence, contrary to long-held human beliefs, would not have begun with our world, our universe. A supreme being could still exist but some of the details might have to be rewritten, again.
Maybe the "big bang" isn't so BIG when compared to the possible reality OUTSIDE our universe. Some would say "God only knows" but, still, it's fun to ponder...a typically human thing to do.
Teri Anne
Well, the Big Bang Theory and the theory of Evolution are debated. However, they are still valid to most scientists. There are people who do not believe in them because these theories conflict with the people's beliefs. This does not invalidate the theories though.
A similiar situation developed centuries ago with the Heliocentric theory. Basically put, the heliocentric theory states that the sun was the center of the universe and that the Earth orbited it. Not completely true in the real world, but a lot better than the Ptolemistic theory that stated that the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the heavens orbited it. The heliocentric view conflicted with the popular beliefs and was attacked. The powers that be decided that the theory of heliocentrism should not be taught. Astronomers such as Galileo were charged with heresy because of this. Centuries later we know that the theory was sound (although we now know that the Earth is not the center of the universe) and that attacking science because it ran counter to belief was wrong. Attacking today's theories because they do not fall in line with popular beliefs is not proper science. Always remember that creating a new theory backed with scientific evidence and research is the only way to "reject" a current theory, not "imagination".
Hi Teri Anne
Imagination sometimes is all we have to put the pieces together and to a greater extent I believe that most theories are derived from imagination until someone comes along with a more substantial piece of the pie that adds or changes the validity of that theory.
Einsteins once said, Logic will take you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.
Imagination is more important then knowledge.
Knowledge is limited, imagination encircles the world.
With unshakable faith in what you believe, you could manifest a new Earth of your own.
With the unshakable faith of all as one could manifest a universe. Written by little old me.
I am spiritual, not religious :) What better way to travel the realm of infinite potentialities then with imagination. With the power of our own minds we could not only stop wars but also bring universal peace and reenter the Garden of Eden. I may not have much faith in humanity, however I believe in its indomitable spirit. Some have endured and survived the impossible. So will there be an end of the human spirit? When humanity is gone the spirit will be gone, all that will be left is the spirit. We are all one within the Oneness. The supreme being is all that is within, for lack of a better word, *creation*. This Universal spirit is all that is. There always was and ever will be infinities, within infinities, within infinities. Time and space overlapping and perpetuating itself into interdimensional realities with no beginning and no end like endless ripples on a pond.
Hun I get these gut hunch's and I would bet on it that outside this universe you will see a vista of stars that are not stars but universes.
.....A multi-universes reality is endless in both TIME and SPACE, having no beginning and no end......
Glory be to the Father, and to the son, to the holly spirit as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end Amen. I would say that this prayer covers much of what we have been discussing in the past two days.
Cindy
Posted on: September 14, 2007, 02:48:18 AM
Hi Blanche
I still hold to the notion that imagination and intuition has a lot to do with discovery and invention as well as leading to creativity. Such as book writers, architects, artists, industrial designers, data systems architects, Skilled purchasing agents, Mr Einstein himself, Hawking, etc an endless list of creative persons that drew their ideas from imagination. I believe that imagination walks hand in hand with creativity and creation as the end result.
Cindy
Imagination and educated intuition play so many roles in society... Michaelangelo "saw" his statues inside big square blocks of marble. Frank Lloyd Wright preconceived his most famous house, Fallingwater, so fully that he was able to draw many scale drawings and elevations without using an eraser. Presumably, the world's best scientists and mathematicians use imagination as the inspiration for creation. To actually create, though, you must "do" - that is, make your statue, your architectural drawings or, in science, prove your theory as best as you can with observations and facts.
Imagination and intuition seem to work best in art and science. With politics or religion, imagined rightiousness can lead you down a road where "I am right and all those people are wrong." Instead of "proof," people pick up guns or bibles and try to enslave others with their ideas of supremacy and fear of what might happen to you if you don't agree: You'll die, go to hell or both. And always the mantre, "I'm doing this for your own good, to save you." Undoubtably, the Inquisition people accused Galileo of heresy and put him under house arrest for his "own good."
Imagination can lead other social leaders to try nonviolent means to achieve what they consider to be a better world. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech comes to mind.
Imagination is the thing that can start the fire. Things have to begin somewhere. Man has always dreamed of travelling to the moon. John F. Kennedy's imagination started that process. NASA proved it could be done.
Cindy and I imagine a reality outside our universe where there are countless other universes. Okay, we did the hard part. Now it's your turn to prove it, lol.
Teri Anne
I sometimes wonder which are the biggest liars, the politicans, the religions, or the medical community and pharmaceutical corporations. They all carry a big book. One carries an oft-misinterpreted Bible. One carries the law that has become a manual on how to put rubber boots on to *F* the sheeple. One carries the names of doctors that they want to bribe with gifts and money. What else can I say except that it ain't any different from all the millennial that have passed before us? Any system that has been set by man has eventually failed and has fallen into dust and disarray. The only difference is that now those who are running this present systen have big enough guns to disintegrate this planet into a hot cinder.
Enough of that. I do believe that somehow the indomitable spirit of man will survive and a child will lead us by the hand into the land of promise for 1,000 years. How I do so wish I could live to see that day and have the honor of holding that child's hand.
I wrote a short story a couple of years back that in many ways touched on this image. The title of the story was The Dunes of Mars Warrior Princess. She is the one who leads the people of her dying planet to this very young Earth.
I use to love witting these children's stories back then, it was my way of escaping from the harsh realities of this world. I was and live and breathed the main characters in all my stories, all of the heroes were female. Imagination brought me to many visions of the infinite potentialities to which mankind could arise.
As far as hell goes, I believe that one creates their own hell, just as much as one can create their own paradise depending which one one chooses.
There was one time in my life I was creating my own hell and thought I was going there in a hand basket by FedEx with nobody at the other end to sign for it. After I transitioned something clicked in my thinking process and believe me, a lot more than just my visible gender was changed at that time. I have looked at myself and the world I and I have totally changed my perspective on who I am and human behavior, from one end of the spectrum to the other.
Cindy
Hi Cindy,
I sometimes wonder whether TS's, in addition to feeling the pain of gender dysphoria, have more imagination than most folk and thus can try to solve our own problems (with a lot of money and other stuff). As you and I have pondered the "big" topics - meaning of life, creation of the universe, possibility of other universes - we too have, in a sense, re-created ourselves. It's our own version of "born again," lol.
You've said that we create our own hell or paradise... Psychologists have said that it's not the problem that's the problem but rather how we choose to think about it.
Regarding all this cosmos stuff, are there WEBSITES or BLOGSITES (similar in layout to Susan's where we can add our 2 cents worth) that you like? This post has gotten me exploring - as you say you do - various space websites including space.com. I found one article that talked of the dark energy that you mentioned earlier in one of your posts.
One thing is puzzling to me (okay, well, there a lot of mysteries, lol)... I know that Galileo determined that, because Venus had phases like the moon (crescent, half, full, etc.) that this helped prove that planets travelled around the sun (rather than planets travelling around the earth). But our earth's moon has phases (like Venus) and DOES travel around the earth. So why does the moon's phases explain one type of rotation (around earth) and Venus's phases explain another (around the sun)?
Thanks, as always.
Teri Anne
Hi, Teri,
The moon would be easy to figure out in that it circles our planet. With a telescope of even limited range like they had back then in Galileo's ttime, you would think astronomers could learn more than the ancients had, that is, the different phases and when it rises and sets and how this is repeated again every month.
For them to discover that the planets are circling the Sun and not our planet, that would again have to have had a powerful enough telescope to see the spherical shape of the planet and watching the different phases like the moon that they made as they traveled around the heavens to disappear behind the sun and reappear again on the other side of the Sun
Now as to the ancient The Aztecs, the Incas, the Mayans, some of the North American Natives, and the Sumerians were all exceptionally good at astronomy and yet they didn't have any visual aids whatsoever.
At one time researchers and excavators announced that the Pyramids were only 6000 years old. In more recent times they found water marks in some of the chambers in the Great Pyramid of Giza indicating that it may have been built before the Great Flood. Now they claim that the Sphinx is even older then the Pyramids. This was what made me wonder again about the first civilization, maybe millions of years before some of our ancestors came out of the trees out of curiosity to explore the world about them.
Below is a post I submitted earlier on another thread I will share with you. There are at least two of us that had the same train of thoughts today in separate forum threads. earlier today.
Spirit, but then, everything has spirit, some type of awareness of being, not just everything organic and inorganic. The entire planet we live on is spirit, the universe itself is spirit. Any and all types of mass are made up of energy and energy is all part of spirit. On the spirit plane we are all one.
There was one time in my life I was creating my own hell and thought I was going there in a hand basket by FedEx with nobody at the other end to sign for it. After I transitioned something clicked in my thinking process and believe me, a lot more than just my visible gender was changed at that time. I have looked at myself and the world I and I have totally changed my perspective on who I am and human behavior, from one end of the spectrum to the other.
Hmmmm... as for a site to discuss this topic on Susan's, I need to find out what all topics that are available. I haven't run across any yet. They had lots of threads that seem to be lying dormant collecting dust, including the two I tried to start on the Spiritual thread but not many have come to check them out. I remember running across a couple of Mars sites with message board that dealt with Mars.
Should be able to find something else that deals with a more wide range of different scientific topics and theories. But I do love reading up and doing research about the planet Mars. That planet has fascinated me since I was a little girl and I still find it an amazing little planet that never fails to hold my interest and awe. Note, when I look at the past and some of it was really nice, wonderful childhood experiences. I just never could see myself being anything but a girl. I never was the other gender to start with, I'll explain that another time..
As for transsexual folk having a higher then normal IQ, it's a good possibility.
Now if I were to compare intuitive or gifted folks, survivalists, as well as recovering alcoholics and addicts, have all have been assessed as over average IQ. Is there a correlation here?
For one thing it appears that in all the labels I have above the one thing that seems to be common is hurt suffering through one thing or another, like some horse's back sides putting their spouse through living hell, and many who have suffered from rape and beating . If a TS does not have the strength to transition it is for sure a bet that they will end up the squashed fly on a car windshield. I really don't know why we have to go through all that crap except to be sure you come out the other end much stronger mentally physically and spiritually.
Cindy
Posted on: September 15, 2007, 05:02:30 AM
Hi Teri
Here is a link you may find interesting, it deals with various fields of science. I found it quite interesting.
http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?
Let me know what you think about it.
Cindy
Hi Cindy,
Sorry for the slow response - I was out of town. Thanks for clearing up how Venus proved the planets go around the sun. The Sphinx might be older than the pyramids? Hmm, interesting. Those Aztecs, Incas and Mayans were, indeed clever folk but, like our civilization, altogether too steeped in mythological religion. I saw a documentary recently that pointed out that the reason the Romans brought the Greek's Trojan Horse into their fortification is for religious reasons... The Trojans thought the Greeks had left the horse as a surrender gift to their god. The Trojans thought, by capturing the horse, they would bring the Greek's god to them and thus they would be blessed instead of the Greeks.
The same History channel documentary talked of how ancient religions used mechanical tricks that seemed magical to promote their religion over others. These included gadgets that would open giant church doors automatically when sacrificial fire was lit on the other side of the room --- ooooh, ahhhhh! A heat line ran from the fire to the door that made it magically open. A miracle.
Regarding "spirit"... While I'm guessing (no way to be sure) there's an intelligent being out there, I'm not ready to pronounce that everything in being, every energy has a spirit. Some things, to me, are like baking soda and vinegar mixed together... an explosive chemical reaction with no hocus pocus spirituality involved. Maybe I'm just jaded from society claiming all sorts of things that are true that aren't. Just my opinion.
I'm not as certain as you about my TS transition. Like Renee Richards, I felt it was something I was compelled to do but can't logically explain why it HAD to be done. Given societal bigotry, common sense should have lead me in the opposite direction. If I had ended up as pretty as you, perhaps I'd feel differently. Though 99.9% of people think, when they meet me in person, that I'm female (and some tell me that it's better and more logical that I'm female), there's still a part of me that doubts my own mind. I'm suspicious by nature.
You said, "I really don't know why we have to go through all that crap except to be sure you come out the other end much stronger mentally physically and spiritually."
They say, "if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger." Not in my case. I don't feel bigotry directed at me but feel wounded every time I hear a guy in a dress joke (and I don't even wear dresses). It hurts me. Just as "every man's death diminishes me," every barb aimed at TG'S makes me feel a scar. I know Einstein confirms that people are stupid but when people like Galileo are put under house arrest and when anyone odd was burned or tortured, you have to have a lot of distractions (for Galileo, presumably, it was work) to keep on keeping on.
Your comparison of various people with over-average IQ I think is appropriate. There is also a sad factor in many of the very bright. I imagine that someone, somewhere along the way, has studied why very gifted people such as Vincent van Gogh and various famous composers considered or committed suicide. It makes no logical sense. Smart people SHOULD be able to figure their way out of internal torment. Samuel Clemens, aka Mark Twain, considered it in his youth but luckily, for us, did change his mind. They say that the brilliant have minds which have stronger connections between the two sides. Perhaps, in certain individuals, a self-preservation compartment is NOT as strong.
I'm exploring (good word in this case, ha!) the website you suggested and am having fun. Though much of the talk is too technical for me, it still introduces me to various things I've been pondering lately... like the accuracy of space measurement and the eternal versus new universe argument. One person argued that galaxies in the older part of our universe were less big and that if the universe were eternal ALL galaxies would be big (because galaxies combine over time). This person didn't take into account OUR theory that there could be many universes beyond our universe and, thus, existence of these universes could show that existence is eternal.
Thank you again for your posts.
Teri Anne
Hi Teri, glad you looked over that site, and you are right, the technical part in it can get pretty deep, but interesting. I introduced myself in the Newbies Introduction Thread and Empress Palpatine was the first to welcome me. I asked her if the group was for professional scientific researchers only and she assured me that many are students but there were a few amateurs around. If you wish, we could look around there and discuss our views in another thread there, or come back here.
Now, about the bigotry: I am quite aware of these type of people, just as much as any other type of corruption and evil, and the tin gods who sit on their tin throne throwing weapons of mass destruction at one another in the name of God because they think that their neighbors are worth less then a cockroach and that they should be the worthy inheritors of the world.
Even if they are part of the essence of spirit I don't think that will buy them a free lunch in hell. As far as I am concerned I think it's all a bunch of crap, but then I am not the judge to condemn anyone who chooses to live that way. Goodness, it is is their choice and, yes, you are quite right about the worshiping of gods or goddesses, "gods/goddesses" by the Mayans and Aztecs. Offering sacrifices to their gods/goddesses with a small G, because a God/Goddess with a big G I am certain would not approve of such things as favoring anybody giving human sacrifice, nor any religious faith in destroying and killing people in the name of God/Goddess. It is exactly these kinds of cutthroats that have destroyed so much of our glorious history, and I find that is such a crying shame. But the judging I leave to what ever force that governs the multiverses. I will not even watch, listen and read the news because it pains me to hear of such things.
I consider myself spiritual and I certainly don't want anything to do with religion. AS for my knowledge of spirituality, although I have studied it for many years my knowledge would only equal microbial proportion when compared to what I might learn in the future.
Spirit is the essence of all the multiverses. How do I know it's there? Well, like any other source of energy, spirit is energy as well. It just as yet is not detectable with any modern day detection apparatus used by science but then, it can be detected by inference.
There goes that famous word again, inference, without which many scientific theories would be impossible to formulate. We are in spirit and everything is within spirit within us. The problem is that spirit energy doesn't discriminate between good and bad, negative and positive. It is only when men as
free will agents make the choice as to whether they wish to use it for good or evil. Our own weakness and scalability, greed and hunger for power, hate, conceit, and twisting religion to validate their hate and prejudice towards their neighbors.
But there is also much good still left in humanity. Many have suffered and survived even when all odds were stacked against them. The spirit of the human will to survive and thrive and to show love, caring, compassion and empathy for their fellows can be quite incredible. It is quite amazing and beautiful to witness this spirit in some of our fellows. I have had the privilege and honor to have met some of these kind souls. The gates into paradise themselves can be thrown ajar by these beautiful souls.
About you hon, I think that judging, not just by your photo, but also by how you write, the sincere emotion you express in your words, I do believe that you are a very beautiful person. I say this just from the few observations I have made on how you have expressed your thoughts and feelings in your posts. I may be way off course but I do know that you do have one person who would be honored to have you as a friend and I enjoy very much our conversation into the depths of the multiverses. Not very often one meets an equal to converse with on the mysteries of the universe and all within it. You need only look within to find who you truly are and you will see.
Hun you appear to be way to hung up on what other people think and say. I am certainly not that pretty but I went ahead and transitioned anyway because I was doing it for me and not to please anyone else especially not for the skeptics. Ironically, the anyone else or the community of they never said one word, not even my employers nor my clients and this took place in a small town of 16000 population. Now I don't know what people thought and to tell the truth I don't really care what the "community of they" think. I am me and this is my life and if they don't like it they can take a hike, or eat my shorts, that was my opinion. I was quite ready to deliver that piece of my mind to them but never had to. That was back in Ontario and I have since moved to Vancouver, BC and no one here either has paid me any mind. I am the organiser for a couple of spiritual groups and actually look forward to meeting with these folks on our next meetup.
Now maybe I'm just lucky but it certainly wasn't because I pass. I look better than I did when I started out but not by that whole hell of a lot. I am not a big person either so if anyone decided to lay one on me they wouldn't find me of much resistance. I am only 5' 3" tall and all of a 120 lbs.
This is my life and this is who I am and this is the way I am going to remain the rest of my life. There is no turning back for me now, it's much to late for me to do that now.
QuoteThey say that the brilliant have minds which have stronger connections between the two sides. Perhaps, in certain individuals, a self-preservation compartment is NOT as strong.
As a social worker I worked with street people and I would have to say that some of these people have a very much of a strong survival instinct in order to survive under those conditions. I have met among these those who were pretty well learned with what I believe to be high IQ's. Now you would wonder why this is?
Some just couldn't take the rat race anymore and preferred living on the street over continuing to play the game. Some will turn to alcohol and drugs and wind up dead among the trash in some alley. I have seen the misery and I have lived it as well but luckily it was only for a short time. I believe that most people that are well-to-do and those who are popular in their field of research are very stressed out from the demands they are expected to meet. They end up either in that alleyway or are found in their own beds with their wrists sliced open in their luxury home.
For us it is similar in a way that where the need becomes so unbearable we may chose death rather then entertain the thought of transition. And then there are those of us who have the will to survive that gives us the strength we need to get through it. As for having the female and male energy or spirit of both genders, in some north American tribes these people were named *Berdache derived from French and Persian. which translates pretty close to the same as transsexual* they were highly regarded as having big medicine and they were given the position in the tribe as a shaman. But it must be you and only you who has to do this. The community of they will not get you there only you.
QuoteFor one thing it appears that in all the labels I have above the one thing that seems to be common is hurt suffering through one thing or another, like some horse's back sides putting their spouse through living hell, and many who have suffered from rape and beating .
Been there, and as I have said before, I am a tiny person, non-confrontational and I have experienced all that you have said including the horses back side and the whole enchilada, and yes, including rape as well, I guess that completes the picture on me. I just had to make a choice and extracted myself from such. After I left I knew that I needed some support and actually ended up attending meetings at an abused women's center for a time.
Cindy
Posted on: September 18, 2007, 05:58:00 AM
I thought I might post this link that you may find of interest. It is part of the spirit and these energies at work are unseen with the unaided eye but can be both felt and seen if one is sufficiently sensitive to this energy they may feel it much easier then seen. See link bellow.
http://www.crystalinks.com/gridmetaphysics.html
I am also inserting one of my own writings about
My theory is that all is consciousness. Mater, energy, space, time,
light.It is said that space and time is fluid like and can be
distorted by a sufficiently powerful enough gravitational or anti
gravitational field. Dark energy, although it is not certain yet
what affect this energy has in the universe, except for a
mathematical equation that seems to fit in quite well to connect the
unexplained behaviors that are going on in the universe. Something
to feed the high tech computers as a link to why the universe has
not yet started to retreat upon itself for one.
Dark energy they think repels regular gravity like an anti
gravitational energy or something like that, I don't remember the
exact terminology. On the other hand a black hole has the opposite
affect with such a tremendously powerful gravitational pull that
even light can't escape once it traverses event horizon. It is also
postulated that if it were possible to survive and pass through
event horizon of a black hole you would find that time would be
moving backwards.
Let us leave any other potential levels of reality for now and just
concentrate on the one we reside in. If every single atomic particle
electromagnetic micro dust particles and energy waves and light
make up the ethereal grid which is the fabric, the cohesive, if you
may, that binds all that is in the universe together then the
universe would be like the tapestry woven unto this grid or ethereal
fabric. With this evidence of intelligent design even the lowly worm
has a complex matrix construct that just can't happen by chance.
Then if this is so would not the universe be the consciousness of
Oneness or as it is referred to as God by most Christians
Now could it be that quantum levels of reality be structured
similarly with their own ethereal grids, each a microsecond out of
phase from one another and ours, an infinity of veils, one upon the
other like the pages in a telephone book, but the sum of all these
quantum levels or all the pages of that hypothetical telephone book
would only be about the thickness of just one page from that of a
telephone book ***The veil*** that separates us from the other
realities or quantum dimensions and the sum of all as being within
the oneness and the Oneness within us all, another infinity.
Cindy
QuoteThey say that the brilliant have minds which have stronger connections between the two sides. Perhaps, in certain individuals, a self-preservation compartment is NOT as strong.
People are all different. We can have an experience and not be aware of it. Some do not know how they are feeling at any given moment. Others can use these unaware experiences to make correct intuitive decisions. Being brilliant is a relative subjective call. What society values and the individual values are two different things if you are not conditioned to have any thoughts of your own. We all have a finite amount of time. How we spend that time is our own choice. Who is to say one is better than another?
Hi lisagurl your response is right on the money and thank you for joining us on this big dig into our search and discovery in the infinite potentialities. Before we can understand others we need to understand our own selves first. And I do so agree that every individual will interpret the world around them different to their fellows next to them. Everyones observation and perception of the same object you will find that their observations will vary to certain degrees from one individual to the other.
It is all in the way we proses this data in our physical minds that will determine how we interpretate the environment around us. But yet they are honestly telling you their own truth from their own perspective and understanding. I am sensitive to peoples energy and I can most times able to sense the difference between a truth, untruth and an outright lie, or if it is from the utterly bizarre. This is not necessarily telling truth or untruth but could be from one with a very active and vivid imagination.
This thread hinges on the utterly bizarre, theorised by our own observation and imaginative minds in attempt to fill in the missing pieces of the great cosmic puzzle. Most humans are naturally a curious lot which began from the time we first climbed down out of the trees and looked up at the stars in the night sky and stood their scratching our primitive craniums.
Quotef you are not conditioned to have any thoughts of your own. We all have a finite amount of time. How we spend that time is our own choice.
Conditioning, now there is a word I have come to dislike and maybe this was why I turned out to be such a rebel in my younger days, It was just plain difficult being ordered or told what I should or should not do, but I had my own way to rebel without being destructive. Education, now that is a zebra of different stripes. Certainly all should have the rights to be taught the three R's but even back then I refused to learn anything that went against my grain.
I just simply refused to be conditioned or told what I should or should not do. Society, at school and in the work place. I spent twenty five years in a alcoholic haze in an attempt at escaping from society and their boring idea of conforming into living in them small restricted boxes they live in and expecting me to live by their boring standards. Here I am 62 years old and I still refuse to live by their restrictive standards.
I think of myself as a free thinker and unless they have free thinker police come to arrest me I will refuse to be restricted by anyone who tries to control my life style or way of thinking. I do believe that my transitioning and the SRS was in part one hell of a good way of breaking their molds and giving them the birdy and tell them to go pith up a rope. Well I never said those things out loud, but it certainly was in my thoughts, Anyway what can you expect from an old hippy.
Cindy
QuoteThis is not necessarily telling truth or untruth but could be from one with a very active and vivid imagination.
We never remember all the details of a memory. What happens is we remember the gist of the past and fill in the details with our imagination. To us it is true but to someone else it might seem a lie or at least different than what they remember of the same incident.
Quote from: cindybc on September 12, 2007, 09:14:02 PMOur own radio signals from their earliest broadcasts may be just about now reaching the closest star to us, Proxima Centauri. Prauxima Centauri children maybe just now be sitting down to what ever approximation to TV they have watching the first release of Mickey Mouse. ;D "hee, hee."
A slight correction: Proxima Centauri is 4.7 light years away, so they are now receiving broadcasts from just 4.7 years ago. Those children have seen the coverage of 9/11 and are watching Survivor and CSI.
Scary thought...
Hi lisagurl
That's another bingo. I find myself reminiscing my past when I was a child, so many wonderful memories and so very detailed like a photo. But what I did yesterday is less detailed then back when I was a child although I have a really good memory for certain things I won't remember in as much detail what I did yesterday. I am very sensitive to certain things and people, or just exactly what I was doing, but I will remember experiencing yesterday better by feelings and emotions then I do visually.
I couldn't tell you if that is a reaction from the hormones or just a latent ability to feel things that I have had all along but didn't really pay much attention to it before.
But I an hard put in remembering anything thing mundane or the usual day to day routine. Especially paper work, I hate paperwork to mundane and boring for me. I am so grateful that my soulmate does the paperwork ;D
Cindy
I apologize in advance for varying off my original post but some topics have come up and, well, I'm always eager to throw my two cents in...
Lisagurl --
Thanks for joining in our posts. You're right. Each of us remembers a dramatic incident differently. I've seen a classroom where someone comes in, steals something and runs out. It's amazing how differently all the people in the class remember it -- what we each perceive.
Regarding each of us having our own way of looking at things:
When one of my close friends and I watch a film, I'll ask her if she liked it. She'll say "yes" or "no" but won't offer details. I'll ask "why did you like it?" She'll answer, "I don't know, I just liked it." I'll return, "But WHY did you like it?" She'll say, "I don't know. I just liked it!" Though she's a very bright person, she feels no need to discuss the WHY of it. For me, because I used to work in the film industry, I want to know why. Her mind sees no need to go there. She just enjoys the film. End of story.
We each either fixate on, or consider or ignore things. I don't know why suicide and bigotry are things I consider - not doing anything about either but just ponder or get sad about from time to time. I don't know why I can't take Cindy's logical argument, basically saying to heck with them or it. Contrarily, I don't care a hoot about what Catholics think -- to me, it's just a lot of hocus pocus or holier than thou stuff. So, why should I care about what bigotted idiots in society think? I know I create my own internal conflict. But society HAS had an affect on me. I'm probably not working now because of bigotry -- not just the gender stuff but bigotry against older people. The film biz is a very youth-oriented place. I can't hate that -- it just IS. When a dog is kicked, it automatically is wary when a human approaches. I guess I have that auto-reaction because I too am wary.
Regarding the spiritual stuff:
Cindy, you could be right that all matter and energy is spiritual and that it's almost like a FORCE that can be used for good or evil. To me, though, the only spiritual thing is what happens in a brain, how it interprets, uses or throws away. It's strange -- I've always been skeptical of the existence of good spirits but, after seeing Exorcist, have never really doubted that there could be bad spirits. I guess with things like the holocaust, the Inquisition, mass murders in Russia and China (among many other countries) and 9/11, it's EASIER to accept that there are bad forces in the world. I have trouble accepting that, if there is such a thing as a God who watches over us (the Shephard thing), where's He been? Self-determination is one thing but He's either a Shephard or He's not. Don't bother watching if all that's gonna happen is that we're gonna die. Watching is no help.
And when you get down to it, evolution is a pretty cruel thing. I like nature documentaries except when they show what they LOVE to show -- animals killing each other to survive. I realize that it's necessary for survival but I wonder if people watching are doing so with that scientific thought or is it just like slowing down and rubbernecking an accident on a freeway? Why is mankind so fascinated by violence? When will we evolve into something that treasures peace more than war? But a chemical reaction occurs in each of us when we see violence. It probably is some instinct that goes back to neanderthal days when we DID have to club something to survive.
Annie mentioned, "Proxima Centauri is 4.7 light years away, so they are now receiving broadcasts from just 4.7 years ago." I don't understand this -- could someone explain this a little more?
By the way, contrary to the above, I don't just ponder the negative. I'm fascinated by scientific advances, particularly in the cosmos and in medicine. Nature is all around where I now live and so, despite losing work, there are many pluses to my life now. And the beat goes on.
Teri Anne
Hi Teri
About 9/11 I was still on Susan's chat. I had spent the entire night up doing whatever I could to help this person who was threatening suicide. When I was done it had been a job well done, but I still felt so sad and I felt this really heavy weight on me. I get them every time some disaster is going to hit, somewhere a couple or three days before the catastrophe is going to hit. Well four hours later I heard about 9/11 and I just froze in my tracks and felt a wave of nausea with goose bumps all over me. I will be back later because I truly want to respond to all of your questions.
Your friend,
Cindy
Quote from: Teri Anne on September 18, 2007, 08:05:33 PMAnnie mentioned, "Proxima Centauri is 4.7 light years away, so they are now receiving broadcasts from just 4.7 years ago." I don't understand this -- could someone explain this a little more?
It's really simple... radio and television waves travel at the speed of light. From the moment we first broadcast a signal, the energy has been rushing outwards. By definition, something traveling at the speed of light travels 4.7 light years in 4.7 years.
Assuming there was someone out there to receive it (and that they had sensitive enough receivers), persons around Proxima Centauri started receiving coverage of 9/11 about the end of May of last year.
Hi Cindy - As an architecture fan (particularly that of Frank Lloyd Wright), I remember disbelieving Tom Brokaw on 9/11/2001 - As the towers were burning, he said they "would have to be totally rebuilt." I felt that it showed his ignorance for how strong the buildings were. I knew better. I knew about architecture and structure. Then, I remember screaming, "Nooo!" as they fell -- I was alone in the room yet I had shouted. And then, tears. It was inconceivable. It still shocks me. As much as I feel wonder of the universe, somehow this overshadowed everything for awhile. On 9/11/2007, when they reran the "Today" show footage, I recorded it. Then, I erased it. Some things are too painful.
Anna - Thank you for explaining. Yes, makes perfect sense. Television and radio waves travel damn quickly, lol. The Proxima Centaurians are probably wondering why, given mankind's progress, it still seems bogged down with the same stuff...hatred and a feeling of looking down on others.
Hopefully, though, the "I Love Lucy," "Seinfeld," and "Frazier" reruns are giving them a laugh.
Teri Anne
QuoteRegarding each of us having our own way of looking at things:
When one of my close friends and I watch a film, I'll ask her if she liked it. She'll say "yes" or "no" but won't offer details. I'll ask "why did you like it?" She'll answer, "I don't know, I just liked it." I'll return, "But WHY did you like it?" She'll say, "I don't know. I just liked it!" Though she's a very bright person, she feels no need to discuss the WHY of it. For me, because I used to work in the film industry, I want to know why. Her mind sees no need to go there. She just enjoys the film. End of story
There are people who have alexithymia like myself. If someone asks how I am feeling I could not tell you. I am not aware of my feelings most the time. In extreme fits of anger or frustrations then I can tell. It does not mean we do not feel just that it stored in the subconscious and can be accessed only intuitively. I rarely read fiction our watch movies twice they just have no appeal when there is no feeling attached. I only watch shows for the story.
I realize movie makers put a lot of effort into their craft but it is just not important to some of us.
Hi lisagurl
About intuitivity I do believe that many present and past experiences can be channeled into from subconscious mind and who knows how many memories have been stored there thought the years.
But there are those who can connect intuatively or those who are sensitive very low frequency energies that most folks are not aware of and and one with such sensitivity can also feel vibrations outside themselves. Time and space is not an obstacle to these human emotions and feelings of others around you. But this a ability can be a God send or a curse. You must have heard before about those that can sense a change in air pressure and the increasing energy before a storm. In other words they can sense a change in the weather as much as 24 hrs prior to the actual storm materialising. Similar process with feeling others peoples energy.
Teri hon you are a woeful caring sensitive person and please hang on to that which makes your character and who you are quite unique. It is a gift and as for all the awful crap that is going on in the world all one can do is send prayers for those unfortunate that are caught up into this misery. Like I have said before I can't watch or read the news it is to painful for me. One hears about what is going on in the world soon enough even if you don't read or watch the news. Watch the stock report or sports if that is your thing or watch a good movie. Goodness knows there isn't much to watch on TV. My soul mate and I usually go out and rent movies now and again when there is not much happening on the web. Well there is a lot of stuff pertaining subjects that pertain to what we have discussed on this thread that one can research on the web.
Cindy
Lisagurl - Thanks for the info on alexithymia....
Wikepedia states: "Alexithymia frequently co-occurs with other disorders, with a representative prevalence of 85% in autistic spectrum disorders,[25] 40% in posttraumatic stress disorder,[26] 63% in anorexia nervosa and 56% in bulimia,[27] 45% in major depressive disorder,[12] 34% in panic disorder,[28] and 50% in substance abusers.[29]"
I would have thought that anyone with posttraumatic stress would have a problem revisiting the traumatic incident in an emotional way, over and over. It seems contradictory that many who have alexithymia don't feel emotion.
Does this lack of emotion mean that you don't feel stress as much? I would think that part could be a plus at times. I've sometimes lamented that, due to estrogen, I've become far more emotional than I used to be. I was always emotional -- that can be wonderful when I see a romantic film. But emotion can a terribly sad thing too -- and that stressful sadness can shorten years in my life, I would think.
My mother was a stereotypical German -- ie. stoic. I never saw her get emotional. I wonder, from what you say Lisagurl, if stoic people have some alexithymia in them. I sometimes have admired that stoic trait in my mother. She put up with a lot of stresses that seemed to just roll off her back. It's hard to say how much of her being stoic was her or how much society in her generation strived to be so -- don't show emotion.
Regarding my ex -- I think my explanation of her not wanting to explain WHY she liked a film or not was just a matter of her interest rather than a character trait. She could be very emotional on a personal level or in describing architecture.
Cindy - Though I can be saddened by things in the news, I am definitely a news junkie. I switch between the four news cable stations and have even been interested in how the same topic is covered by the different organizations. While I'm liberal/libertarian (MSNBC type), I don't shun hearing the Fox news interpretation of news. Along with watching the various documentary stations (History, Discovery, H&G), I guess I'm just interested in real things in life (as opposed to "reality" shows). I do wish that the news stations would concentrate less on Britany/Paris Hilton and more on scientific progress. The science websites like Space.com and magazines like Popular Science could be of mass interest if stations would only stop revering stardom. I think it's a crime that there aren't thousands of video interviews of the best minds of our times. Frank Lloyd Wright, for example, was only interviewed for television a couple of times. Wouldn't it be interesting to hear Einstein in his own words? But noooo, we gotta hear of Brittany.
By the way -- there's a post elsewhere at Susan's about diverting a post's main thread. I again apologize for diverting my own thread but, in a sense, that's the way conversation is in real life. Some things lead to other things. I guess one good thing about starting my own thread is that I can take my own thing elsewhere, to the stars and beyond, lol. And I haven't minded when you'all have done the same because, bottom line, what you brought up was interesting.
Teri Anne
Hi Teri, your a sweety and our interest appears to be quite synchronous to mine. I just never got back to the big bang thread. By the time we got the Internet back on line I found myself being quite busy. I don't know about multitasking stuff so much then for me I have a complex mind, constantly in motion sometimes in all directions at once. I really don't mind it though, I think it's kind of fun, sometimes to loose my Soul mate in my ability to discuss several different topics all at once, none stop. I just sit there with my hand on her shoulder, laugh some at her perplexed looking face, like a puppy that knows it has been bad or something and just go through it again with her a little slower.. I ask her if she knew what she was getting into when she got married with me? can't fool a psychic I would say "hee, hee, hee." ;D She is a dear heart though she would get the moon for me if I asked her. ;D
Oh but I do read the news, but not until my soul mate screens it for me and I read stuff like politics, environmental reports, and what the status is over there in Iraq and of course any science articles there might be in the paper, but she keeps the really gory stuff out. I love the history channel and the discovery channel but other then that very little of anything else interests me. I use to love the star trek series on the sci-fi chanel.
About not having emotions, you would not like it, it's horrible, like being dead inside, I mean 0 emotions. As for anorexia I went through that twice in my life, it kind of sneaks up on you without realizing it until two days later, then it finally dawns on me that I haven't ate for two days. When I did take nourishment it was usually juices and sometimes a can of spaghetti or beans and ate it out of the can with a fork, not bothering to even warm it up. Had an awful Low self esteem of myself, but looking back on it and know what I know now, the pieces came together that it may have had something to with gender dysphoria. and among other disorders. I hated myself but at the time I didn't even know what the word transsexual was, so I didn't know why I hated myself for so..
Oh hon it's been one hell of a ride, but worth every second. How many people in the world that gets to break down an entire life time into tiny pieces then reassemble it back together in order to know who was the innerself. Upon reasmebling the pieces of my life I would never have realized just how many of those pieces were really beautiful and precious experiences. It isn't hard for me to imagine myself growing up as a girl even through out my teens. I had long hair down to my butt and my longest lasting friend was a girl. The feelings within that I had just didn't fit the image I saw in the mirror and maybe, just possibly, maybe I really never was the other. I also so thank God for the wonderful parents I had. So many wonderful memories, especially back in my childhood. and through my teens as well. Like I mentioned before I have a very vivid memory of things and I can go back and remember vividly as far back as three years old but only little bits and piece of memories before that.
Piece, by piece, by piece, I rebuilt my life over the course of twenty years, re experiencing both the good and the bad. Do you know what I discovered about emotions and feelings? at their deepest intensity whether negative or positive when they meet at the bottom they are equal and one can cancel the other out in one burst of energy. I heard someone say that if you take these emotions and turn the into positive by sending them as a prayer you can send them to Universe for healing energy for mother Earth and all that resides on her. So that is what I do. Thus having a good cry for ones self can be soul cleansing if directed or release them as positive energy. See this old retired social worker will never change, I thrive on rescue missions even if all I can do only do is to send it by way of healing energy.
My soul mate did the Google Earth earlier today and she said it would take three hours driving to get to your place and that it was doable.
Take care hon, I'll see you a bit later. I haven't went to bed yet, and here it is 6:36 am. AAAAAaaaaak!!!!!!
You take good care of yourself huh. Hmmmmmm I think I got keyboard cramps.
Cindy
Posted on: September 20, 2007, 09:14:14 AM
Hi Teri
Here is a site on black holes. Now I haven't heard of anyone else in the research of black holes come up with what I am about to say. I believe that after the big bang a very massive black hole was left from where all the mater and energy spewed out where now one may find that the entire universe is la great spiraling wheel like it's miniature replicas, the galaxies..
Now this theory could bring forth a whole Plethora of ideas and theories as well as good many of the usual debunkers. But what could be even more incredible is what if there are micro black holes in the core of planets and moons this would equal *gravity* You take that the interior of a planet such as ours if one could study the flow of magma I bet would resemble a similar circulation or spiraling affect of the magma, a miniature replica of a galaxy except that micro black holes would stop up like the drain in a kitchen sink once the event horizon was saturated with mater and energy but would still be still pulling from inwards underneath its own shell which use to be the event horizon.. Just an idea.
I hate typos grrrrrrrrr.
http://www.mpe.mpg.de/ir/GC/index.php
Cindy
QuoteDoes this lack of emotion mean that you don't feel stress as much?
I guess, stress has never been a problem. Oh I grew up in a German household too. In the past anxiety gave me a type of fear I think, but never showed outside and very confusing inside. That was during my time of getting stoned when I was younger. Now perhaps frustration confuses my normal neutral blankness. I do feel things sometimes but what might be overwhelming to others is very mild to me. I could walk over dead bodies and not blink an eye. I can cry but not understand why. It takes a lot more than TV or a movie to make a noticeable stir. I do have a kind heart and do well with people and not feel why, just intuitively know I should. I have been pretty successful with people and retired fairly young. Strange but I live with a semi partner 20 years younger and she is a poet.
Hi lisagurl
In my case I have always been extra sensitive to different things and yes it can be very much stressful. I drank alcoholically for twenty five years and the last five years I drank mostly to numb my feelings. Well it worked alright, but after I put the stopper back on the bottle I had done a good job of numbing my feelings For the first year I was sober I had no feelings *at all*. I'll spare the story on that and just suffice it to say it wasn't a very nice place to be.
"Walking over bodies," how gross no thanks.
I am quite content to be where I am today because I know that being sensitive, if nothing else, it's part and parcel of who I am today and I find no necessity to suppress my feelings and emotions, they make for a good release valve for stress.. God bless the hormones. ;D
Cindy
Lisagurl - Not feeling stress, as I mentioned, sounds like a plus to me. Your example of walking over bodies reminds me of something that happened at work once. The company ran out of space for parking and so rented the streets in a cemetary next door. They put plywood over some of the gravesites so we could go to the company. I don't know what relatives would think of our walking over these graves. At night in the cemetary, cold wind blew while we went to our cars. Somehow, it was always MUCH colder at the cemetary rather than the grounds between company buildings. Eventually, the company built a parking structure so we didn't have to park at the cemetary.
Cindy - I guess alcohol numbs emotion. I've heard that many stress drugs do the same. I'm not in a place now where I'd need either but think that a lot needs to be researched to help people with pain and stress. The latest Popular Science issue talks of a pacemaker of sorts giving very low power electrical jolts to a certain part of the brain that creates depression. It's a long way from the massive jolts that they show in "Cucko's Nest" or "A Beautiful Mind." I've also heard recently of research to wipe away trauma that keeps being relived in postraumatic stress. Some question whether it's good to wipe away any part of memory but, for those who face that recurring trauma, it probably seems like a gift from heaven. In hearing about it, I've wondered (it's what I do -- a preoccupation!) whether TS postraumatic stress could, in the future, be selectively erased. Maybe they could wipe out our male memories, lol.
Regarding the black hole thing -- I did see a documentary the other day that mentioned the possibility of a black-holish thing around the Bermuda Triangle. Some say that, on the exact spot opposite on earth, there are problems similar to the Bermuda Triangle (ships disappearing, compass heading going wacko).
Some shows and documentaries have mentioned travel through black holes. One documentary pointed out that we would compress so much we would become instantly dense and vaporize. I guess we won't know until someone or something tries...who wants to go first, lol?
Teri Anne
Hi Teri hon, I attended the first of our metaphysics meetup groups tonight. It was a fantastic meeting as we discussed the strange, and wonderful, and different, things that most of us are not even aware of. The four of us "talking shop" so freely without anyone thinking us as being strange felt nice.
I guess I could equate it to before transitioning and having to be so secretive about it. Expressing our thoughts and feelings on certain things was liberating, just the same as going to my first live TS meeting. Speak about synchronisities of like minds in two different worlds...Holy Smokes! I am certain that one of the two guys attending was not an amature on the subject of things metaphysical.
About the black holes, I have heard something along the line you told us. There is also a theory that their gravitational pull is so great that you would get stretched out like a spaghetti until you literally got ripped apart before you even got as far as event horizon. I guess no body knows for certain what happens to matter as it draws closer to event horizon. The matter and energy is spiraling down to event horizon so rapidly that the friction and pressure gets so great that it is superheated, thus the bright light in the center of a galaxy. But then the scientific debating community is still debating whether there really are black holes. Cheese whiz, that debating community really gets around, huh? ;D
For any who came and read this post, what is your take just what is at the center of a galaxy that keeps it from from flying apart from the galactic center? If there wasn't some type of force like the gravitational pull of a black hole, what do you suppose holds it together? I believe the entire Universe is held together by the same physics that holds galaxies together and the nuclei of atoms together.
Some speak of black holes in the nearly vacuous void where there really is not enough matter and energy to make heat to light up from the friction on a approaching the event horizon. An invisible black hole?
As to how to manage stress, as I have mentioned before, speaking for myself ,what works the best, *effectively,* for me is to let it go, using emotions as the tool to do so. I don't block or restrain or repress my emotions, I just let them flow via the tear ducts. I would not want to have any of my memories get wiped out. There are just to many good memories embedded there along with the traumatic memories. I just did my best through the years to face the traumatic experiences as they came to surface and dealt with them, and then released them to Universe. Sometimes I didn't quite get the entire cancer out, so I just took my imaginary "scalpel" out and performed more "emotional surgery" on it until I got it all.
In the Bermuda Triangle there is a vortex that just shows up unexpectedly, lasts for a very short time, then disappears again. If a ship or plane that unfortunately happens to be navigating there at the time. (((Poof)))!!! Who knows, maybe they will find these ships and planes laying on the sand dunes of Mars.
Cindy
It is not that I repress emotions just that the intensity is just not there in my awareness. I grew up in NYC where you had to grow up quickly to survive. Perhaps I do not have very many good childhood memories to draw on. Mind altering drugs in my 20's at least gave me some intensity of feeling. I have always been anchored to the consensus reality. Probability makes for the best solutions for controlling the future. Emotions and imagination works with the memory that fills in the bad with a better light.Great for enjoying the now time but usually errors when planning the future.
To me metaphysics is an interesting exercise in imagination. I do not mean to knock anyone belief's it can make for a pleasant time, but rarely makes for sound decisions. Beliefs do help health and general coping with life. But to those who question, answers or not having the answer at the moment can also be the essences of life.
Hi Lisagurl
And a child will lead you by the hand back to paradise lost.
Perhaps Paradise lost was on Mars, think about that, it was once a water world.
The Warrior Princess is beginning to awaken from her long slumber.
Dreams and visions being woven into reality like the magical spider spinning her web of imagination
Written by little old me. ;)
I find it sad for those I have known who say that they didn't have a childhood. I had a wonderful childhood full of dreams, imagination, and fantasy. I may have been a loner but never alone, if you know what I mean. If I hadn't had imagination I am not so certain I would have made it here to compose this post to you.
My Soul mate was much like you were, not much of anything pleasant to remember from her childhood. Imagination is the magical word, or operative word like they say in the secret service. Now don't get me wrong, she is a highly intelligent, woman and she had to be inventive and imaginative for the kind of work she did, but had not put much time and effort or even thought about using the God given gift of imagination on her off time.
You say that it would prevent you from planning for the future if you spent to much time in imagination. I on the other hand found imagination to be a priceless tool in making decisions for my future. It was imagination that lead me by the hand and eventually showed me the way through the doors of transitioning. Transitioning, I find, was much more preferable to jumping in front of a city bus.
Anyway, after my Soul mate and I decided to share our lives together, I introduced her to the world of imagination. During the past three years we have been together I have shown her how we can merge our past experiences growing up together. We even had names for the two of us girls when we ran together as a pair. One was Lefty and the other was Red.
We built a new childhood through those two imaginary characters. And the wonderful adventure of two youths running together is still very much alive and well in our hearts. This way when we look back we were never the other gender, like (((((poof!!!)))) I know it kind of sounds nutsy but it worked.
Cindy
Posted on: September 21, 2007, 04:34:09 PM
Making peace with oneself.
Where once there was a duality of souls within us, constantly in turmoil, now the duality of our souls has merged into one soul. ;)
Do you know how I stopped that constant battle which allowed me to be me today?
Imagination.
I had a mirror against the wall and I had a very long parlez with the other me in the mirror. Eventually we came to an agreement. My other self discovered he didn't want to fight the she, the real me, anymore, and surrendered. He left slump-shouldered and very weary from the long battle and went to lie down to rest in peacefulness with a smile traced on his face. He was so weary from the long battle, and as he faded away into oblivion, his last thoughts were that he only hoped that the she part of himself would do a better job of life then he did. Weird, eh?
Cindy
Well I made every dream that I wanted, come true. The problem our imagination only remembers the best part of things and puts a good light on them. It also assembles a rosy future which we gladly work on to make happen. The problem is the good feeling is thinking about it not so great when you do it. Yes you can imagine anything and be happy with it. Some of us rather suffer with the pain of moving this physical world in the direction we want it to go. The satisfaction trumps all imagination and there is no fear of death.No I do not believe in a god. Nor do I want to throw away my past it was successful. I am today the person I want to be because I can change and embrace change. I look in the mirror and see myself today. The past built a strong self confidence foundation. I have no regrets or battles about my past experiences. The question is what do I want to do with the remaining finite life I have left.
Hi lisagurl
I don't believe in a god or at least not the type of God they preach about in churches and I don't believe in churches either. I do refer to the Bible sometimes but only as a reference to explain a synchronicity to something in the real world, well at least what we know are real to our senses.
I do believe there is some type of intelligent of force that is connected to all things in this reality and all dimensions and realities as well that exist in creation, for lack of a better word. Maybe the Star Wars conception of *The Force* would be a better description of the Oneness of all that is, and we are all one within this Oneness. Regrettably the English language lacks in adjectives to describe such concepts. The grid (or the force) is the fabric upon which the universe is stitched
Ah but I never said to cover over the underlying problems we have, in a previous post I said is to deal with them as they surface. Those issues are still within me even after I have dealt with them, but they just don't bother me anymore and I don't find a need to go dig them out again. Goodness I had deep depressions at one time that I was unable to cope or perform with the outside world. Just huddled between my bed and the wall terrified about in both the imagined and the real and not able to differentiate one from the other. Severe depression can and will bring about hallucinations that appear real like blood dripping down the walls and widows of my bed room. That was one of the worst hallucinations that I can recall but I had many until I was fortunate enough my shrink diagnosed it as bipolar episodes and got the proper meds for it.
I am really not to certain what it is you are seeking and I don't want to come off sounding that I am beating around the bush. For myself in order to be able to perform and work in society i just had put one foot ahead of the other and worked in order of priorities by starting with the most recent given project presented to me and work backward.
Oh but I sometimes need to go back to my past to use as a demonstration for another as to what it was like and how I dealt with the problem back then. Oh dear there is just so much to do and after I transitioned and for once in my life being myself. This is about the best gift that we could ask for. There is always something to do, start writing a book, learn to play guitar or any other number of hobbies or something like that.
Cindy
QuoteThere is always something to do
Just doing something is not the issue. It is doing something that inspires newness and change. A value that will help humans grow. Satisfaction comes from moving the world not just being in it.
Beliefs are imagination. I believe that there are things I do not know but I know beliefs have no fact to prove them. Only the probability of past experiences might hold true for the future.
QuoteOh dear there is just so much to do and after I transitioned and for once in my life being myself.
I am and always were myself regardless of the state of my body. Just because I have a female body which is more comfortable than my earlier male body does not change who I was or am. It just changes how people perceive me. My imagination and subjective perception determine how I feel. Learning new things adds to the storage of the memory and provides a larger array of experiences for the mind to choice from which may alter your subjective perception.
I can not relate to your past depression because I have never experienced depression. Frustration and anger are the closest I can get. The anger gives motivation to change hence no depression.
The thing I am presently doing is learning from reading and experience, using my imagination to take the new facts and combine them with my memory to create an entirely new combination to give to the world. A combination unique enough to change things. I just have not got that idea yet.
OK lisagurl,
I think I am getting the picture of where it is you are coming from. To be part or take part in Quote.....an entirely new combination to give to the world.....UNQuote I still have not got the hang of making Quotes. But *wow!* hon that is a tall order, but a very worthy one. I have been trying to do the same thing for years. Did a lot of research into the metaphysical and a lot meditating where by through visions I was shown things, some very wonderful things and some not so wonderful. I have contemplated this scenario with the visions many time and the theory I came up with is the future how and how potentially it can very beautiful but on the flip side how it is just as likely how we can obliterate one another. Yes if only I knew how to apply the healing to this physical world it would be wonderful, but some people don't make it an easy task to perform.
What I have contributed is a tool to work with or a vehicle for those that are interested. I opened up two metaphysics meetup groups one in Vancouver and one in Seattle and also an empath meetup group here in Vancouver and area as well, and I also manage two Yahoo groups dealing with empathy and spirituality which I have provided to those who are interested in learning about reawakening their consciousness and remember the ancient gifts that humanity possessed during the epoch of the first civilisation. A refuge where they can feel safe to discuss or share about the phenomena of Empathy is. A place to meet and enlighten one another and learn how to do exactly what you have proposed.
As for the transitioning, I am just happy that it's behind me, but then I believe it's a progressive growth, and ongoing thing like metamorphasising the caterpilar to the butterfly and grow to see, feel, and know from a different perspective who ourselves are as well as the world around us. And you got that right! I have always been who is the true self within it just only took to long suffering before I got smart enough and changed the outside to match the inside. Now that I have let the cat out of the bag and I am comfortable with who I am, as the saying goes, *comfortable in my own skin* I am able to look to new horizons.
Quote......Only the probability of past experiences might hold true for the future....Unquote
That is what one calls learning from our errors allowing us to grow and evolve.
Be well
Cindy
QuoteEmpathy
If I remember right that is a German word that was first used in English in the 1800's to describe the relation of a viewer to an artists work and the artist. It has only been in the post modern world that people have to be responsible for their own future as well as our own happiness. We choice where to live, who to marry, what to work at, what sex to be, etc. These freedoms come with a responsibility to also be human. Many only know their rights and give little thought to the consequences of their actions. To connect with how someone feels does not add the knowledge to of that person or why they feel that way or what is a better alternative. Sometimes empathy rewards bad living and blocks a persons ability to see and correct their actions in turn locks them into a rut. Being noble is much more complex then it seems on the surface.
Holistic healing has been around for many years and does have some proving qualities. But much more needs to be understood about its workings as not to have poor use of its benefits. Charlatans have corrupted many creative ideas and set them back 1000's of years.
Hi lisagurl
Hmmm I didn't know the word empath originated from the German language. Well there are certainly a down side to empathy but there are also an upsides to it as well. During the course of the twenty years I worked as a Social Worker it was a wonderful tool when working with people. I can for-see things or sense when something is coming sometimes things that are not really nice. there may not be much one can do except to send prayer and intentions.
Yes being over sensitive can really leave you hurting *deeply* but I also know how to love care and nurture a fellow human who is suffering. Sometimes many tears are shed when you lose one, but every now and again when you win one and that makes up for the times your failed to help others. Did you know that this game of working to help others you loose way more then you win. People will do what they are going to do because that is the price of free will to make the wrong decisions. I wouldn't be able to change my characteristics any more then the moon can change into cheese. Truthfully I wouldn't want to anyway. I already went through a time in my life where I couldn't feel anything and I certainly would not want a repeat.
For me it keeps me sharp tuned in to the world around me. When it gets to much I do the cleansing and grounding thing. I can't imagine what it would be like without the empathy.
And I can look at an artists painting and feel the emotion and feelings the artist put into his or her work that much more profoundly. At times this insensitively makes the experience of enjoying what is about us to a greater depth.
Responsible for my future you got that right it took a lot of knots on my head before I stopped and asked myself what's wrong with this picture. 90% of the time one has made a wrong decision and then "Bam!" We bring on our down falls by our own choice. I may have messed up 25 years of my life but now life is good and I am truly grateful that it is.
Cindy
Don't be upset with me in what I'm about to discuss - I'm unfamiliar with metaphysics to, at this point, so question whether it has any more validity than any of the human race's strange and sometimes harmfull litany of "beliefs."
Quote: "Metaphysics refers to the branch of philosophy that attemps to understand the fundamental nature of all reality, whether visible or invisible. It seeks a description so basic that it applies to everything, whether divine or human or anything else. It attempts to tell what anything must be like in order to be at all."
You attempt to understand the nature of the invisible? Wow, good trick. Understanding the invisible is what, in essence, many religions try to do. Cindy, you say "force," and religious people say, "God's will." As anti-religion books point out, "I can neither prove nor disprove either." I have no problem with OTHER people believing in forces or God's will. For me to "believe," however, there's gonna have to be verifiable double-blind testing to prove any theories.
Quote: "Mature physical theory fastidiously distinguishes itself from metaphysics by formalizing its basic notions and introducing verifiable criteria"
While the reality of "universe creation" seems to be a part of metaphysics, if the above quotes are correct (I'm no expert on this), it seems like metaphysics involves giving a theory about reality without, as one website put it, having to "introduce verifiable criteria." While some define metaphysics as "physics", to me, it doesn't sound like science, or what I thought science was. Physics, so a friend tells me, "involves mathematics while metaphysics is more hocus pocus." Just his opinion.
Wikepedia: "Philosophy is the discipline concerned with questions of how one should live (ethics); what sorts of things exist and what are their essential natures (metaphysics); what counts as genuine knowledge (epistemology); and what are the correct principles of reasoning (logic)"
I would suggest that philosophy is a subjective educated guess without requiring the proof of the scientific method. There may be some facts mixed in with metaphysics but, in loose terminology, a twinkie could be defined as "food," I suppose. It may be man's nature to THINK in a certain way but, it's just as likely, that there are people like me out there that don't fit into that mold.
There is a point where I wonder what the point is of pondering something unseeable. That kind of discussion could go on for hours but not really achieve a goal. While I agree that IMAGINATION is necessary in many or most scientific endeavors, we are not seeking to encapsulate spiritual dust. If an atomic microscope is, one day, able to see beyond the sub-atomic particles so that we can see the ESSENSE of life, then there is more to talk about.
I, like anyone interested in philosophy, wonder about why we are here. I can offer an OPINION. People might not like it. I think that the Creator has very little interest in our little planet. We are the product of a huge chemical reaction in the explosion of multi-universes. My "opinion" doesn't reach the criteria of "belief" but I think some metaphysics fans do have strong beliefs.
I don't know how anyone can have a "belief" in something unseeable and unprovable. To me, that kind of belief would, more accurately, be called "faith."
All of the above isn't meant as any kind of critique and I trust it won't upset anyone. I can be wrong about any or all of this. It's just my opinion. My two cents.
Teri Anne
Hi Teri
Everyone is entitled to their opinions hunches and Ideas. There is little we even know about what we can see and detect in this material universe, even with the most advanced and powerful observation instruments. I do not pretend to be an expert nor do I have the mathematical equations to pull out of a hat to prove anything in the observable universe let alone the metaverses, except just a strong gut hunch.
I can't see the invisible anymore then you can, but there are certain energies that I am sensitive to and sometimes see it briefly, but I wouldn't be able to tell you what it is, nor can I really begin to understand it's physics or if they originate from this reality or another. Scientists say that a cosmic string has 16 dimensions and maybe even as many as 36 dimensions. Can they really observe or measure these dimensions? we just have to take it on faith that the researchers know something we don't by again applying a mathematical expression to estimate a consensus of probabilities. Call it metaphysics or quantum physics which I think one kind of relates to the other, except that quantum physics can be defined as a theoretical mathematical expression and metaphysics is used in an attempt to define or express what is not quantifiable.
But we know that there are forces at work in the universe that can't be explained. Like for instance subatomic size particles that appear suddenly into this universe and disappear again just as quickly. Are these particles interdimensional travelers? No I can't claim to know what is on the other side of this reality but I do feel energies flowing around in our atmosphere like plankton in the ocean is about all I would be able to tell you. As for empathy all that means is that I have an overactive sixth sense which I had for as far back in early childhood that I can't really remember the age I was. It wasn't any wonder I would get terrified at night after lights out when I was a kid and would sit bolt upright in my bed and scream.
My apologies if the subject of metaphysics upset you hon in any way. I didn't come here to upset anyone
Well at least we are back into the scientific part of this thread. :)
Cindy
Hi Cindy, no apologies necessary. You probably know by now that I, like you, enjoy discussing things and nothing is intended to upset. I will admit to a fondness for jousting, like Don Quixote, those windmills now and then. Many can "see" things that I cannot. I'm somewhat envious of folk who seem so certain that God or Jesus exists. I have no idea where this certainty comes from, especially when I see that they are, in no sense, what I would call "gullible."
If you tell me that you feel things from an "overactive sixth sense," I do not dispute it. I can see colors (red, green, blue) that some cannot. Some color-blind people might ask me to prove to me that there's a green but I don't know, given their color capabilities, if that would be possible... "You see, if you mix this color and this color, you get green." "What do you mean? It looks blue to me."
There's a scene in the movie "Phenomenon" where Travolta, who has become smart very quickly, FEELS air pulses that he's read can indicate an earthquake will arrive soon. He calls up a seismology office, trying to notify them, but they're in disbelief that anyone could FEEL such a thing without instruments. In many ways, I loved the movie "Phenomenon" because it showed, as Travolta said at one point, what "we all can achieve if we just try." Mankind's potential.
In my thirst for knowledge, I often remember that movie's premise: to be all that we can be.
And it ain't about becoming a soldier.
Teri Anne
Hi Teri
I have those abilities but I wouldn't be able to tell you how or what it is because I don't really know how it works myself. I just sense and see things most others don't. And that is a big yes on feeling earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, forest fires and any other number of catastrophes not just by nature but man made ones to. Usually in the form of feeling like being weighed down by weights followed by whisperings inside my mind like being inside a borg ship. When i get to feeling this it will materialize within two or three days.
I was on Susan's original chatroom the night before 9/11 chatting with someone who was suicidal. I made good progress with this person and had no reason to feel down but I was feeling down and this oppressive weight bearing down on me. Three hours later when I got to my work I was told what had happened. Now you speak about someone having the creepiest feeling, my entire body was tingling. i have watched events where it appears to me for some appears to recycle or repeat itself, where you find yourself back where you started, but not necessarily something bad, but more liken to deja vu and it happens not just to me but to others as well.
Syncronisities happen quite frequently as well, like same thoughts and words at the same time as another but I feel peoples emotions and feeling more then I can outright read their minds. Feeling an other's emotions and feelings can tell you a lot about this person probably just as well as actually reading their minds.
And yes Travolta may be quite right in that statement. If one has unshakable faith, just one individual could create another world and if even only half of the people on this planet were to have unshakable faith they could create a new universe. What holds us back? It is how we are conditioned to think. like for instance this famous line, "men don't cry!" bit. all through ones life time being. parents, teachers, bosses, preachers and politicians who repeatedly try to convince us that it is impossible to do this or that because of such and such. How many times were we told"NO!" growing up. There would be no limit as to what man could do towards the healing of our planet and those that reside on it.
I do believe that the airways and the universe is saturated with energies that most of us are not even aware of, but sometimes one with an overactive 6th sense can pic it up, metaphysics? Perhaps. There are infinite potentialities beyond anything we are aware of in all realities. Einstein said.
Thank you for writing back
Cindy
My ex would always feel burning in her nose a half-day before it rained. It didn't rain much in L.A. so her predictions weren't based on any regular pattern. They say that animals can sense earthquakes before they happen. And it's odd that animals in the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami sensed, unlike the humans, to run like hell up into the hills.
Shakespeare said a similar thing as the quote you had from Einstein:
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616), "Hamlet", Act 1 scene 5
From Phrases.org: "Hamlet has had a few shocks to his system: he (thinks he) saw the ghost of his father, who gave him some shocking news about his mother and stepfather... and he's reeling. His fellow college student Horatio has not been exposed to such troubling and supernatural forces...."
As I said earlier in this post, I have an easier time believing in bad spirits than good ones. Cindy, you say that your senses seem to only predict catastrophies. I'm sure you would prefer to also have the ability to predict good things. That would give you something to look forwards to! I remember several "Twilight Zone" episodes about people who could see the future or read people's minds. It'd be neat to be able to predict either an up or down day in the stock market, lol.
Teri Anne
Hi Teri
Hey girl, you got it. See one does not have to have the seeings sensings and knowings nor do they have to have the understanding nor do they have to know the mathematical expression to see the pattern of the phenomena of things unseen. It's all around and in us as well. It's just that some people do not wish to acknowledge it, let alone have a desire to understand it. But we all feel and see it at varying degrees just depending on how far down the rabbit hole they are willing to go. These energy forces scares a lot of people back into their little boxes. Again we could use the only tool that scientific researchers also use to detect something that is not readily or directly observable or seeable to help us understand it and that would be by *inference.*
I was probably born with it but it wasn't until I was old enough to become aware that these sources were not of this reality and it scared the pants off of me. Babies are aware of these sources although they wouldn't understand or have a point of reference to tell the difference between something from this reality or another, until some day when their parents will tell them that is is just their imagination, there is nothing there. They may actually believe they are doing something positive for their child to remove their fear, but in actuality they are stifling the child's growth of the ever expanding consciousness and understanding the physics that could be so crucial and beneficial in letting them grow into their own consciousness and awareness of the multieverses.
Hon I have had many good and wonderful dreams and visions, more so in a meditative state. The bad stuff just materialises when I am quite awake, suddenly just out of no where.
I wrote a little children's fantasy story from bits and pieces of remembered dreams and visions.
I love children and in a lot of ways I am childlike especially the curiosity and wonderment and adventure and aware of things mot many people are not aware of or overlook it in this reality. My mom was the same. ;D
I titled it Agathar
I WANNA BE A WITTLE KID on a planet named Agathar. Mauve valleys, purple mountains and fuchsia sky with puffy pink clouds and, oh, so very awesome, a pretty aqua-colored lake sparkling like a gem in the sunlight. "Oh my!" There are other wittle children here, and they have "dragonfly wings" "WOW! Awesome!" I can see them flitting playfully between the mauve trees.
There is synchronicity, peace, love, and tranquility throughout the land, the silence and peace only broken by the beautiful chorus of tiny song birds in the valley and the playful, musical laughter of the little children. The little children with the dragonfly wings dart playfully in and out, and, oh! Will you look over there?
On the other side of the valley lies the tranquil lavender surface of a large inland sea with several different layers of densities of water molecules, like oil on water, just lots more different layers. Forests of mauve and green are bordered by fields of dazzling shades of red, gold, orange, blue, amethyst, constantly shifting colors with the light, warm breeze and dappled sunlight. The river systems are a radiant red from the pomegranate sun above.
Distant purple mountains and mauve sky with pink clouds are so pleasant to the eye and soothing to the spirit. Oh, and I can't forget the crystalline, singing waterfalls in the woods that sound like a thousand angels singing harmoniously, in unison with the the energetic pulse of the Mother Planet herself.
All around the valley there are giant trees, SO TALL that I fall on my back while looking up at them! The tops disappear into the pink clouds above and if one was to climb up to the top of these giant trees, above the clouds, it is said that you will find the Cadosee, the tiny Hobbit-like people with colorful moth wings. The Cadosee live in small, close-knit villages they built among the intertwining limbs of the giant trees. There they share love, caring, and happiness.
"Captain Brighteyes here, calling unknown planet, copy unknown planet? I need your coordinates for landing specifications. What are your instructions? Over!"
No response.
Captain Brighteyes is in her quantum-level puddle jumper, now running low on bubaline. She shouts into her communicator that she is "running very low on fuel, coming in for emergency landing, over!!" She fights the controls as she enters the atmosphere. The QLPJ shuddered and rattled like it was about to fall apart at the seams. Brighteyes sees a patchwork landscape of multiple colors below, coming up rapidly towards her before she passes out.
Two Cadosee sitting in front of their grass hut-like home were looking up at the myriad of bright stars when they noticed this streak of white light coming down out of the sky right towards them. The Cadosee ran atop one of the large limbs in the tree that was their home, just as this great white ball crashed through their hut, demolishing it. The white ball continued towards the planet's surface and stopped with a loud crash spewing a huge cloud of dust.
**********
Cindy
A few hundred years ago nobody knew about radio waves. Instruments were invented to detect them now most people believe that they are real. Especially those who watch TV. ;D The same concept can be used for things that are here now that we just do not have the ability to sense.
I am all for the imagination and the boxes it can pry open. However we need to understand its limits also. Science is helpful in gathering and testing facts to give a probability to imagined phenomena. Math is a type of imagination based on logic and reasoning so it does offer another way of understanding things as well as be another piece of evidence.
The mind is a wonderful thing. Everyone has a unique soul (not the religious sense) that governs our consciousness. People can imagine what their future is going to be like and usually over estimate what it will feel like. A better method that few do is to find someone actually doing what we plan to do and ask them how it feels. I know everyone is different but we are the same also. This method has proving through tests to be more accurate than our own imagination alone.
Being conscious and aware feeds a lot of information and emotions into our brains. The subconscious is also gathering and sending information we can call transparent. We do things sometimes before thinking all this transparent action comes from inside. Before I can believe or bet my life on something I need to understand more than most people will need accept to feel comfortable.
I am a human so like others, I can and do use my imagination to escape and create my own reality, as the poet would say to help me live. But I do know the difference and try to understand it.
The Individuality of Oneness within The Oneness of eternity.
One should say instead of "I will believe it when I see it." "I will see it when I believe it."
Here is another intrestinglink.
http://fractalicawakening.com/
Here is a short video that I found quite amazing in explaining how the different dimensions work.
http://www.tenthdimension.com/flash2.php
Cindy
Posted on: September 23, 2007, 03:06:33 PM
Here is another link, do join me in my fantasy as we walk through the enchanted forest..
I must say I watched this little video at least a thousand times and it still has the same affect on me as the first time. it is beautiful but it will brings out tears of longing. So get the box of Kleenex out and enjoy
Just let the Id out and let her dance with joy.
http://www.duirwaighgallery.com/inspiration_aknock.htm
Publisher: Lulu.com (January 19, 2005)
Fractalic Awakening is a self published novel.
The consensus probably is not good. No creditable information is to be found.
QuoteHere is a short video that I found quite amazing in explaining how the different dimensions work.
No it is someone imagination of what 10 dimensions would be like.
Here is the flaw, if we have language or thoughts then it is not what is unknown. The other dimensions if true will be beyond our ability to imagine in this time frame. Calling infinity a point is an abstraction just as using a Greek letter in an equation. The nature of infinity is as illusive as God.
The last time was this moment as I push these keys talking to a fairy. ;D
Hi lisagurl, "hee hee" Tanks. I love fairies, I got them all around the house. Well I never checked for the validity of the two posts, I took them at face value and you would be surprised what has come from the imagination and later a few months or even a few years it comes out in the news papers, TV and radio that what was once something that came out as fantasy or imagination is now a proven fact by scientific researchers. I myself have envisioned different things but I don't make it a habit of just telling any one out there about it. It's just such a wonderful rush though when someone validates it into reality when it only existed in my mind to start with. That's almost as neat as though I had proven it myself. I love validations, I could easily live for validations.
My soul mate and I share a lot of stuff like that back and forth and she is amazed when one of my theories get validated. Well ya see she was skeptical about such things when I met here but now she has become acclimatized to what comes out of my imagination.
If nothing else, including the fantasy one, is also a good way to take a break from this reality for a while. My Soul mate and I often just go cruising around with our Jeep Charekee and a good supply of Tim Horton's coffee and just talk about anything that pops in our minds, and just to say that two years ago she was a total skeptic about such things. That has changed much as I spin my web of potentiality for her to observe and feel it. Even more astonished when I impart healing energy from The Force to heal her of migraines.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi11.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa191%2Fcynthiag932%2Ffroud.jpg&hash=21a45f3d494a172ee5e53fc5f7439f464d2c1757)
Cindy
Lisagurl, you said, "Before I can believe or bet my life on something I need to understand more than most people will need accept to feel comfortable." Yes, I'm the same. As we've discussed earlier in this post, people like Pres. Bush believe in black and white. Unfortunately, life can be a lot more complicated.
Wikepedia: "Fantasy is a genre that uses magic and other supernatural forms as a primary element of plot, theme, and/or setting. The genre is generally distinguished from science fiction and horror by overall look, feel, and theme of the individual work, though there is a great deal of overlap between the three (collectively known as speculative fiction). In its broadest sense, fantasy comprises works by many writers, artists, filmmakers, and musicians, from ancient myths and legends to many recent works embraced by a wide audience today."
I know that fantasy can be fun (a la Disney) - the world Cindy described in her story was pretty and wonderful. I have no objection to this kind of fantasy. I do, however, dislike myths and legends that feel like religion - something you, in the old days, society forced you to believe under threat that, unless you did that, you would be burned. Churches presumably threw out the Old Testament because, surprise of all surprises, it's made up of unbelievable bigotted narcissistic sado-masochistic stories. Oh, I guess there are a few nice stories and morals here and there. And I admit that I have a bias against traditions. When I see Discovery documentaries showing the vile practices of some primitive people, I think, "How far have we really come?" When Catholics wear or don't wear head coverings, I wonder why can they still be doing such things? What is this incense pot being waved around as the priest walks up the aisle? Because of some tradition or something written in a book?! Even worse, of course, are those who mis-apply supposed "teachings" to torture or sodomize others. The goodness of the mystical world has been tarnished, in my opinion, by horrid byproducts of "belief." The Stephen King novels that I prefer are realistic ones like "Misery." Fantasies that I prefer are things like "Snow White", "Cinderella," and "Pinochio." Though these movies are dark and full of tension, they are not threatening, "believe this or perish!"
I saw a documentary recently that a planet crashed into earth and became our moon. Talk about fantastic!
Teri Anne
Hi Teri
I have had this fascination with planet Mars that started way back when I was a little kid. I use to draw pictures of what it looked like with oceans, lakes, rivers, trees the whole nine yards. I really believed there was life there but when they sent the first probe there that made it into orbit successfully and sent pictures back, poor quality pictures at that, NASA announced that it was a dry dead planet, like the moon, complete with craters all over the place.
I remember being so disappointed, but I didn't give up hope and I continued picturing and fantasizing it in my head as a planet that still held life. Then NASA sent another probe that returned back pictures that look way more promising, like dried up rivers and fluvial fans at the end of some rivers. Something that really caught my eyes was "clouds" there were clouds and then they showed the two poles which were convincingly made of ice, very thick ice.
But then it was said that the planet was still very arid and dead. Then there was the next probe that showed the Cydonia area where the face was, how exciting the possibility that intelligent beings may have actually have inhabited Mars at one time. I believe I have every photo ever released by NASA stored in my photos here in my hard drive.
And now out comes HIRISE with the best quality satellite camera ever built, powerful enough to pick out one of the rovers and it's tracks in the sand. One of those rovers are no bigger then a pregnant golf cart. With this wonderful piece of modern technology they have found glaciers that still exist covered over by dust. Frozen lakes in some of the craters and even an entire ice flow field, like in a large body of water. And those channels on the sides of crater walls, how amazing.
There is enough evidence there now that even NASA had to admit that Mars was once a water world. That little planet is coming up with new discoveries and surprises every day. What I believed when I was a kid is more true now then ever.
As for fantasy stories I believe I watched every children's story that I could get my hands on, even all the way back whene I would sit with the kids I had in my care and watch the movies with them.
I have 6 children's fantasy books that I have written myself. The type of fantasy you mentioned you liked, is there any other? But I also dream and sometimes the things I dreamed or envisioned just happen to come true.
Reality sucks, but it helps when one can just dress it up some. Like with some curtains complete with the ruffles around the edges, you know like the kind your mom use to decorate the windows with back in the 50's. Now add colors lots of colors and sparkles. Flowers, oh my yes, flowers are a must. The table covered with a brightly decorated table cloth with one of those fancy dandy tea pots on it, and matching cups. You sit and let you mind drift to pleasant memories for a few minuets until you are brought back from your daydreaming when the water in the kettle on the wood stove begins to steep.
All this world needs now is Love. Lots and lots of love. :laugh: Love is the greatest and most powerful magic a person can have.
Close your eyes and make a wish.
Cindy
Posted on: September 23, 2007, 10:14:12 PM
The priest and the incense pot if I remember correctly, the incense was presented as a vehicle to send prayers to God
The North American natives "Primitives?" depending on how an individual looks at it I suppose. Every individual has a different conception of what they discern from the same observation. I am of mixed blood Ojibwa and French. When I was on the res. I attended certain ceremonies and we used smoldering sweet grass to send messages to Great Spirit for our deceased, members of the family and our ancestors which they believed went to different spiritual levels of existence.
Happy hunting grounds and the degrading label of squaw for native women, *Neshnobequa* in Ojibwa for woman, both were an invention of the colonial Europeans which ironically happy hunting ground turns out to be somewhat of an accurate description. For the warrior or hunter the days being out in the wilderness were good memories of once having been free to roam and connect with the spirit of nature, thus the happy hunting grounds
When the hunter brought back supper we had a small ceremonie to thank the soul of the beast for supplying us with sustenance. To this day these ceremonies are still being held, and every part of the beast is used for something nothing was wasted. If there was any remains left they were returned to mother earth.
I don't follow any religion but I have respects for the Native faith. After all I lived among them on one reservation or another for nearly ten years.
Native women love to laugh. Native people have an active Id as well kind of impish. ;D
Cindy
Posted on: September 24, 2007, 05:14:09 AM
Hi lisagurl
Here it is nearly 5:00am and don't feel like sleeping. I may just skip sleeping.
Any way It has just dawned on me how ridged you are with how you see things. Did someone draw a line across the cosmos somewhere that says do not cross this yellow line lest you get shot at dawn by firing squad?? Do you really believe that all there is this reality or the temporal? Only what you believe is real? Or only what you can discern with your five senses? That scares me to just think if I had to live like that. Like my extra sensitivities were to just go "POOF!"
If all there was is what we can can perceive with the five senses I would wither and die of bordem and loneliness. I may have problems with spelling and make type o's but I do have a complex mind if I wished or have to use it. And my soul mate and I do it a lot. I love Teri Anne for that, I love expanding my horizons in possibilities. I might be a country hick but I am quite cerebrally active. I Love to dream and fantasise. It's quite amazing sometimes what you can catch with a butterfly net in the land of imagination. Ridgedged and limited thought I could swear was invented to prevent one from straying to far past the limited lines that the community of they and those with doctoral degrees in science. Don't dare go beyond what is beyond the books, goodness forbid, I may bring back a fire eating dragon with me. I love letting my mind drift out there to explore what ever new world of my own creation. Anybody could do that if they really wanted to. To the world out there they see a kind of timid and rather shy lady getting up in years. Don't pay her no mind, she's a little loose between the ears.
I am certainly not confrontational, nor am I loud or aggressive. Most of the time I'm in my own space. You see the hormones didn't change what was inside, all it did is altered the outside to fit with the inside. Once I get to know someone I can be quite chatty. My senses have become more attuned to little things and I find that tears can flow much easier. But I love who I am and I don't intend to change one subatomic particle of me. I am who I am. The only thing I may change is my panties. ;D
Tell me something, do you know how to laugh? I love laughing, it like a tonic for the soul
:laugh:
I am not a person of many words. Wallace Stevens said that fantasy satisfies the imagination and truth satisfies the philosopher, poetry provides truth and imagination so it helps us to live.
I do laugh at how people sometimes think that life is not their responsibility. Why would you think that everyone enjoys what you do? It is much more enjoyable to me to understand something than just make believe. As a child I did not enjoy fairy tales because my imagination was far better than those silly stories. I wrote a small book then called "Scouting on Mars" much better then the cow that jumped over the moon.
By now you probably know you are talking to an ex engineer/manager. I got spoiled by seeing too many of my ideas come to life. I also learned that you do not need money or consumption to be happy. I live near a national park so no need to get into my car to enjoy what nature has unveiled for us. I grow and cook most meals as I also go to the farmers market. I could travel the world if I wanted but that does not interest me, for last year I was in Thailand and was glad to be home. My partner is studying Latin and writes poetry about our lives. My children are in college one wants to be a vet. The local dogs walk with me like the piped piper. The humming birds eat the bugs from my flowers. Why should I have to imagine only what's in my mind when I can have the senses too? Living in the now has its rewards as does understanding the future that you can mold.
Hi lisagurl
Well I wasn't an engineer, came close to it, I graduated college with an Architectural and mechanical designing certificate. I designed and drew blueprints and helped build homes. Small stuff compared to what you did I suppose. I also drew up the plans and designed fiberglass Ferrari body replicas to alter Fieros to look like Ferrari. I also designed and built a full size model of the armored body for a hummer like vehicle. Every part of the body was triangular shaped not any part of the surface was flat, and it was made of 1" thick Kevlar. I got riped off on all those deals probably on the account of my timidness, I wouldn't dare say anything in in my defense. Well that was OK shortly after I discovered I was bipolar and was put on disability.
It was around this time that I found out about gender Dysphoria. After I got off on disability I enjoyed doing art and writing stories and as I have mentioned before creating stuff out of my own mind and putting it on paper or on canvas. This was good therapy for me to keep myself centered and my mind pliable with imagination and read tons of books especially on North American Native spirituality and nearly anything in the way of literature on the sciences. If it weren't for imagination I doubt I would have made it this far, probably crawled under a stump in the woods and just drift off.
I love animals and children and yes they are attracted to me when I walk by. I have seen me in a shopping mall in a McDonald's on different occasions with a congregation o children standing around while I tell them stories.
Not just animals and children but some of the folks walking by sometimes stopping to make some small talk. I loved the town where I came from in Ontario they were the friendliest people I had ever met. I still feel lost at times here in the suburbs of Vancouver but I am beginning to adapt to the people here. As for nature I guess that is what I miss the most.
As for molding the future I just do what ever needs to be done each day and try to live for the moment, for all we truly have right at this moment is one heart beat in eternity. The next heart beat may never come.
Cindy
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~rbear/queene1.html
Hi Lisagurl
It sounds interesting but I don't do old English to well.
Hi Teri, where are you hon? I doubt we have used up all of the fields of science that branch out from the big bang theory. I also really don't think we need to stick to proven fact because that would only serve to narrow this subject down way to much. I think it's good to make out own theories, good exercise for the mind and there are so many different possibilities and potentials that can be discussed.
Hope you get back soon. Missin you
Cindy
Cindy, thanks for missing me. I sometimes pare down my computer use because I worry if I'm spending too much time online and whether I should be spending more time in the real world. Also, I have had friends online and have had them disappear: I had a really good TS friend online from 1999 to 2000. I thought we were like sisters. We talked of transitioning, the operations, our troubled relationships. Then, one day, I never heard from her again. Nothing traumatic had happened between us. It's still a mystery to me. I have some concerns that a person she moved in with (someone I thought seemed suspicious - he had some kind of small crime in his background). Perhaps she sensed my suspicions and didn't want to be bothered with me.
But it's no reason to avoid discussing things online. On the one hand, every conversation - online or not - is part of living and to be cherished. There is a person at the other end. It is important in that moment in time because, as we've discussed, I like stretching both my imagination and my grasp of scientific knowledge. Reality would be a good place to do that except that I do not have friends, in real life, that enjoy that search as you and Lisagurl do.
Cindy, your native Indian background sounds interesting. Yes, I've heard and read of the Berdeches. It gives me hope that my ability to see both male and female sides of situations may actually have a purpose in society. Both males and females do have the tendency to act silly from time to time; males with their bravado and hiding pain and females with their worry-churning and addiction to labeling anything attractive as being "cute" (is there no other descriptive word in their grasp?).
I understand your fascination with Mars. I think I heard that the next Mars lander will drill into the soil to try to find evidence of water. I guess I'm more interested in the big picture -- how all the planets ended up different (why didn't some comet bring enough ice to mars so that oceans would still exist?), and the galaxies, universe and beyond... There's so much scientists have yet to discover. Btw - I read recently that Google used to, as you zoomed into the moon, turn it into cheese. It'd also be funny if, as you zoomed in, you were suddenly looking into a big eye or mouth!
Lisagurl, your life seems idylic - raising food, living near a national park. I sometimes wonder what it'd be like to live away from cities, away from people. There's a part of me that really enjoys nature but, of course, nature can be harsh, even life-threatening. And, perhaps, much as I say I love nature, I know I'd miss my close friends. I think you're living for-the-moment in a sensual way is wonderful. Thank you for sharing.
Cindy, I loved Vancouver the many times I visited it. You both live in wonderful areas. I never studied architecture in school but have read a lot of architecture books (most of my books are architecture books). I also started a nonprofit group with the goal of building Frank Lloyd Wright houses in Los Angeles. I did architectural video documentaries of houses our group would tour. I still have dreams of someday designing my own house (I have many sketches and floor plans, lol). Lately, though, I've really enjoyed sailing and so daydream about selling my house and living on a sailboat. Fantasy or daydream? I'm not really sure yet!
Teri Anne
Hi Teri
Just want to say that I pray that we do become good friends. Being not that far away is not impossible for us to get together. I believe there is much we could learn from one another and just plain share what ever stuff together. As far as disappearing, I don't really think that's going to happen any time soon unless I get abducted by aliens. I would say so if I was going away any time soon.
Ya I had that happen to me to, meet some really nice folks online then they disappear and I can only pray that they left because they got what they needed on the groups and found other interests to follow up on. I have one girl, her name is Taye, we had a parting that was kind of like, on the wrong note some time back, but I ran into her on another group a couple months ago. She is really having a hard time getting over what her dad did to her when she was a kid. At least we had something in common, I to was abused and forced upon to have sex by my ex. Well I am only 5' 3" and 115 lbs and certainly there was not much of any resistance, she out weight me by at least 50 or 60 lbs. and she was aggressive and I was not.
So Taye and I had something incommon. So when she has a problem she comes to me, I don't mind I been a rescuer from all the way back when I was a little kid. Taye lives in Alberta, not an impossible distance from here ether.
I don't have many friends out there and the ones that I did were GG's. I have one really wonderful lady friend I met when I was on Long Island NY. She is an empath the same as I. We still correspond now and again by email. I haven't made any friends her yet either. It takes me a while to adjust to the new vibes from the people when I move to a new place. I do go out though when ever my Soul Mate needs to go somewhere. I never looked to have lots of friends. I'll post more a little later, sighing in relief, glad to see you back hon.
Cindy
Posted on: September 26, 2007, 05:04:21 AM
Ok I am back
Ya the native back ground was on my mom's side, she was a really wonderful lady, she has passed away 25 years ago now. Cheez once the years are into the double diggets it's kind of hard to remember just exactly how many years it was since what ever past event. Growing up we lived on a wonderful 45 acre piece of property with a thousand foot lake front two large cottages and the main house on top of the hill. It was only five miles from the rez and I was there more soften then I was at home. The kids there accepted me.
After my Mom and Dad both passed away and the property was sold I moved unto the rez and lived there for close on to ten years. I then left and did the gypsy thing and traveled the eastern half of both US and Canada with my truck and camper, stopping only long enough to get work and collect enough money and moved on again. I was searching for something, maybe where people lived a lifestyle that would approximate where I lived when I was a kid. Maybe it was more then that, but anyway I came back home and got a Job in another town, I had no desire to go back to my home town. Any way, it wouldn't be until ten years later when once again I moved to another town and this was where I discovered what the word transsexual meant, but it wasn't until another couple of years before I began the transitioning journey.
Berdeche means one who is of two spirits and were considered to have great medicine and usually were given the position of shaman. I attended many pow wows and learned more about the medicine dances and the spiritual healing and cleansings with sweet grass or sage. I had also attended many of the ceremonies they had on the res and discovered where there was a lot in the ceremonies at Pow wows are purposely left out because they were considered sacred and not to be shared anywhere else except among the people on the rez. When I was a kid we use to go to this elder ladies house where she would tell us about the history of the ancestors and also some short stories about the spirits. All stuff I thought at the time that were just nice entertaining stories for children,.I found out later that all that was spoken by this elderly lady were quite true.
So needless to say that from this experience we should count ourself so very fortunate to have walked the two paths and come to understand both as well. I would say that it should make us much more understanding of both genders and ourselves. Two Spirits. I really thought about this, that during my twenty years working as a Social Worker, it was a gift just as much as being an empath. But back before I knew all this I knew there was battle within, one side against the other and that created a very serious set of problems for me.
Oh goodness how I do miss living in a small town where there is a lot of woods around. Just before I went full time I use to live in an apartment building where the woods were immediately at the back of the building. There were a lo fo time there where I use to dress up and put my male clothes over top and walk down the hill into the woods below. I would take my male clothes off and played out my fantasies, a princes, a fairy, or just a lady walking down the path that lead down to the beach to await for my prince who was coming for me in his yacht. And just dance around on the beach in the full moon until my head was spinning and would sit on the ground abruptly and laugh until I had tears running down my cheeks, then cry in earnest, wondering if I would ever be the one that was locked up inside.
I would like to get a house boat, big one an just set course from the town I lived and just cruise the lower great lakes and go through the locks that connect to the Mississippi river and just continue cruising all the way down to the Gulf of Mexico, "wow!" now that is what I would call an adventure.
Posted on: September 26, 2007, 06:19:55 AM
Hi Teri I know that sometimes I get carried away and write a book, hope you didn't fall asleep reading my last post. If it's the aliens don't forget to tell them where I live. ;D
Maybe they'll let me pilot their ship.
Cindy
Hi Cindy,
Thanks for the kind words. Over time, hopefully we will one day meet. I recall I used to tell online friends that distance would, unfortunately, dictate not getting together much. It's kind of hard to be close friends with someone out of state or out of the country. Oh, well.
Don't worry about the lengths of your posts. I tend to create longer than normal posts, too. I am not really suited for the internet where many post short answers. When I've gone to chat rooms, it's even worse. People like to use letters like ROFL and other acronyms like we're messaging on a cellphone. I've yet to hear anything online that's made me ROFL, LOL.
You have an interesting childhood. I'm afraid mine was the ordinary life of a kid in the Southern Calif. suburbs. My parents, while very educated, didn't talk a lot and certainly didn't tell me stories like the elder ladies did for you.
Your past travel was ambitious. I travelled alone by train for six weeks across the country and back -- I enjoyed it but did long for a slower pace of travel. Every time I landed in a town, I dumped my suitcase into the first inexpensive hotel and toured the town (I only spent one to four days in each town).
Your wish of going down the Mississippi reminds me of times I had as a kid reading Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn. I, too, longed to go down the Mississippi. I guess that dream has been replaced by my dream of travelling and living full time on a sailboat. A favorite book of mine is "Maiden Voyage," the true-story of a teenage girl who travels around the world in a 26 foot sailboat. If I ever get the boat, I will, of course, be sailing up to Vancouver and hopefully beyond.
Teri Anne
Hi Teri
"Hee, Hee," Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn. those were some of my favorites when I was a kid, also Little Mermaid, Radio Flyer, Fantasia, Parent Trap, Golden Child, A Never Ending Story, just off the top of my head and a whole lot of other children's stories. For that mater I still love watching children's movies. After I met my Soul Mate I introduced her to the world of magic and adventure out of stories for children. She had never let her mind wonder into fantasy, or the potentialities before. I suppose that also helped her learn more about who I am. I even wrote some books but, unfortunately, they never made it to the publishers desk. I still like fantasising, I guess I Just love creating stories from imagination.
I even have a program downloaded on my hardrive for meditation where the theme is based on a fantasy background. I am a hopeless romantic, a use to be hippy, and of the mixed blood French/Iroquois, a recovering alcoholic, and by the standards of some when I was younger I have been called weird, or a witch. So that made me pretty well alienated by others. But since I have transitioned people have seen me from a different perspective, a positive one at that. Now how weird can that be huh? presently I am a big kid who wants to grow up to be a fairy. ;D
My soul mate didn't have a very nice childhood and that saddens me when I hear such things. Every one should be entitled in having a childhood. Anyway I share my childhood with my soul mate and out of parts of her childhood and mine we recreated a new childhood with two imaginary characters, one we named Red and the other Lefty. It sure filled many of our winter nights reliving new childhoods on the web. That was our made up world until I went down to the US to meet up with here in person. ;)
And for meeting up with you as close to Seattle as we are it wouldn't be a big deal. I have driven farther then that just to go urinate. ;D I am just grateful we have met and I liked you from post #1
Almost forgot, I am also going to be having meetups in Seattle in the not to distant future. I know your not to interested in Spirituality and metaphysics but I have a meetup group in Seattle this is one I set up with a different twist to it . Here is the link if you wish to take a peek. http://spirituality.meetup.com/141/
As for chatrooms I really don't care for them because I'm a slow typist and don't do to well keeping up with them. I mean my post ends up looking like an alien from Betelgeuse typed it out. I to prefer the boards. I might be flexible in almost any topic being discussed, but there are times when the light bulb in the attic just refuses to light up. When I get like that I just read and move on until the light of inspiration in the attic comes on again.
But I am usually quite flexible with my thoughts, feelings and insights. Some people just get too dang rigid in their thoughts and beliefs. But I am happy to see that most people on here don't downright get aggressive swinging catfish and trouts at each other and making a general pain in the butt of themselves. I have seen that way to often mess up a board really good. But then I have only been on a few threads, those that I had an interest in.
Well I guess I only wrote half a book this time. I'll be back later to write the rest of it.
Have a wonderful day.
Cindy
As much as I have read about imagination and reality I think people imagine how imagination and reality work then use their memory to explain it. Then there is Art. Add a little beliefs and a human is formed.
It takes imagination, determination, and faith in yourself in order to bring about a thought into reality, and, of course, every idea ever devised in one's mind is stored in either the conscious memory or the subconscious memory.
Every thought since birth is stored in the subconscious mind. Maybe much more, if one believes in reincarnation, which is not really all that far-fetched if you take into consideration that some of our more primitive genetic strands are still inactive but still much alive and are still connected to man/woman #1. The entire history of your ancestors is stored in those genetic strands. What was before that? Was there once a prehuman era? Or are we the star children like the ancient Ojibwa legends tell it, as plentiful as the stars themselves.
Cindy
QuoteIt takes imagination, determination, and faith in yourself in order to bring about a thought into reality, and, of course, every idea ever devised in one's mind is stored in either the conscious memory or the subconscious memory.
Exceptions.
Your own reality is your perception. A consensus reality is a matter of agreement and probability. Memories are faulty and massaged by perceptions. "There is no good or bad only if you think it."
To control the future requires faith in probability and determination. You need imagination and emotion to reason, otherwise there is no will to make a decision.
Hi lisagurl
Of course, if each individual, let us say were able o travel back through the consciousness of our DNA strands to a previously picked out location and certain setting that would truly appear to be alien to us everyone would have a different perception as to what they experienced and saw there.
Yes a decision or otherwise ingenious thought is oft spontaneous. For a short time liken from out of the blue, where there is no doubt in the depths of self knowing and the self realisation, you are left with no doubt whatsoever. You know with certainty that it's the right answer you had been seeking. Good and fine as long as you don't waste any time applying this new found knowledge as a certain solution to the task, or a probable proposition that may be the answer for question at hand.
Document well your insight before it gets gone.
*Before* the debating community of the busy mind of any of us humans takes over and scatters a rather otherwise perfectly solid, wise and or ingenious train of thoughts. One should record these ideas then and there, before the answer is rendered asunder by the debating community and spread about by the cosmic wind in the void of flawed human mind ,
The end product is a box of loose parts that don't fit to anything.
Cindy
QuoteYes a decision or otherwise ingenious thought is oft spontaneous. For a short time liken from out of the blue, where there is no doubt in the depths of self knowing and the self realisation, you are left with no doubt whatsoever. You know with certainty that it's the right answer you had been seeking. Good and fine as long as you don't waste any time applying this new found knowledge as a certain solution to the task, or a probable proposition that may be the answer for question at hand.
Everything is in doubt, nothing is absolute that is where probability comes in. Life is but a bunch of chances.
Hi lisagurl, quite right. This reality is an illusion, like an immense holodeck made up of a complex grid work or matrix where time and space overlaps into the interdimensional space and realities that are ad infinitum,
Like playing an intergalactic chess game.
Cindy
Hi Cindy and Lisa,
Sorry I've been absent for a few days - I've been working hard trying to create an iMovie slide show with music for my ex (she and her hubby took a Princess cruise). While Mac programs are supposidly simple it's like the Honda ads that claimed that Hondas were simple and yet had two carburators in a time most cars only had one. So much for simplicity.
As to complexity, I agree with Lisa, also, when she said, "Everything is in doubt, nothing is absolute that is where probability comes in. Life is but a bunch of chances."
The best drama writers, in my opinion, are the ones who don't write in black and white. While I am a pro-choice person on abortion, I can understand why others believe abortion is wrong. Being a civil-libertarian of sorts (not hard-line), I feel that people are entitled to their own choices and feelings without my sticking my nose into their business.
In a hopefully non-confrontational way, I sometimes pose my feelings about, say, reincarnation. I neither believe nor disbelieve any "faiths" or beliefs. I suppose, if you think that we have souls (I'm not convinced), then maybe these souls have to go somewhere. One way to look at reincarnation, though, would be that our "souls" don't reincarnate, just our chemical and molecular makeup gets absorbed by the earth to turn into something else. If you are an apple or an animal, as YOU are eaten by an animal, you BECOME part of that animal. There's a great scene near the end of the movie "Phenomenon" which poses that natural occurance. In the far East, Monks sometimes go out to die in a field, knowing their bodies will be eaten by animals -- life moves on...
There's a part of me that thinks of reincarnation or heaven but I sometimes wonder about what happens with someone with a tortured past (for example, the PTSD I've had to survive due to my own war, transsexualism). Does part of that torture get carried on into this mythical new life? Do the millions of men who faced PTSD from World Wars have to KEEP remembering these horrors, albeit in a new form, be it spiritual or ghostly? If one were to believe horror stories like Excorcist, there are a lot of horrors that do, indeed, get CARRIED by the spirit into this new vaporous existance we've labeled "souls." The Bible seems to infer a happy afterlife but I, being a suspicious type, know that they wouldn't "sell" many books if they promised anything other than, well, "heaven."
I'd like to think that I'd do it better next time but, if it's like a lot of time travel into the past movies, you end up making the same mistakes. Better, maybe, to be a majestic oak on a peaceful seashore. If I was hungry, my roots would provide me with sustenance without killing (the usual lot of animals).
A gentle breeze would blow against my "body." Sometimes children would climb up my arms in play or lovers would sit, taking a break from the stresses of their lives, to share some peace. With me.
Teri Anne
The soul can mean many things some that do not separate from the body. Why do people talk of one God and the next breath talk of Satan? I think abortion depends on many factors and weights so that one law could not possibly cover all cases. What do you think about a world wide health care system that helped everyone. How would they resolve the "choice" issue? Or trans-sex care?
Would people believe in a religion that had no heaven or afterlife? Would they be willing to die for it? 20 virgins ;D
Hi Teri
These are my own thoughts and feelings and not necessarily anyone else's, maybe even no one else's.
To open the door to the imagination the portal to another existence where basically you are capable of also potentially opening doors into the many other metaverses. The starting point to the creative potential of where the thoughts in the mind can be converted into actual physical realities. Well realities as we interpret them in this reality which is all relative of what we perceive of this world as real. This universe is in actuality like a large Holodeck. A universal illusion that can be manipulated with the mind that with sufficient concentration, determination and believing in your potential capabilities in the manifestation of whatever your desire is.
Here is a small example that this world is an illusion. If you were to take ten people in a field standing in a circle examining the same flower. What do you think would be the result? The result would be that each individual would have a different concept of that same flower.
Ever get that feeling when you come to a certain place and you remember seeing something there but is not there now and just quite can't remember what it was?
One could also describe the Universe as as a photonic hologram because basically if one breaks down everything to it's tiniest particles, you will find that all is made of light, or photons.
The metaphysical grid, consisting of many electromagnetic fields, or matrix, well that's getting into another complete chapter of it's own to discuss at a later time.
Now this is as far as I can get with the universe being a hologram unless one feels the need to get into the mathematical values and equations of quantum physics. The void the universe swirls about in, is what is called the grid or the fabric or the weave of a spiders web upon which the tapestry of the universe is woven. There is no evil or good in this grid or fabric of universe. All that is in the observable void is in universal balance and harmony. There is no evil or good, but there is yin and yang which is necessary in this reality as we know it in order to to create reality, and reality is dependant on time and space.
As to the result of good and evil is born in the hearts and minds of this one green planets inhabitants named humans, and we humans, being free will agents, will decide or make the choice of whether this energy will be used for evil or good.
Quote(for example, the PTSD I've had to survive due to my own war, transsexualism).
Yes I am quite familiar with PTSD. Maybe doubly so then most cases. I have mentioned before about my being an empath. Briefly described here:
- Created 12/09/04
ARE YOU AN EMPATH OR TELEPATH ??
1- Are you extremely sensitive to the emotions and thoughts of others, often confusing the emotions of others with your own?
2- Are you an emotional sponge, soaking up the emotions of others, absorbing and dissipating the energy and problems of others, even at a distance.
3- Do you instinctively know when someone is lying or fibbing, almost always keeping your suspicions to yourself?
4- Do you tend to puts others at ease, allowing them to share their inner most feelings? Do you find yourself helping others, even casual strangers, understand the world and themselves better?
5- Periodically, do you need to take time out, where you can be alone to meditate, recharge and experience your own mind without the interference of others?
6- Have you known about your unique sensitivity since childhood? Have you struggled with a burden-of-perceptions that others did not share.
7- Do you sometimes use food, sex, drugs or solitude as a means of coping with you empathic or telepathic nature?
8- Do you have to a use masked personality to protect yourself from others, only sharing your true perceptions with those you trust most?
9- Do you have the ability to facilitate the process of rapid growth in those around you?
Now between thinking everyone else was like me and could read and feel my every thought and feelings along with having this obsession of wanting to be a girl to the point I thought I was being possessed by the devil himself, Dear God who could I dare speak about wanting to be a girl???? To who? Out there? This didn't leave much room for what little sanity I still retained to fit into my already overflowing basket of paranoia. All this trash, missinformation, that I accumulated and repressed deeply within that I hoped would never see daylight again. Fear? yes, quite frightened, petrified in fear thinking, "what if they can read my mind?" I hid away from people for many years, living like a hermit. So yes, I am aware of PTSD.
It only took my befriending of a very nice lady who happen to be the minister for the Anglican church where I frequented a drop in for street people which was located in the basement the church.. I from there I got connected with a shrink and not long after I began my journey towards becoming Cindy.
It's been a long road and certainly anything but easy but I can thank my Creator that I don't know how to say no or give up.
Sincerely
Cynthia
I've again been gone for a week or so -- sorry for the slow response.
Lisagurl - I think you and I are in agreement. Everyone has different needs, especially those in the minorities. That is why I favor systems with individual choice...often one size or rule doesn't fit all.
Organized religion has always seemed to be to be a dubious thing. Why would anyone would trust things written in a book so long ago when we can hardly trust things written today? We are always discovering lies whether it be for god, kingdom, corporation or country. The smartest are those who doubt "facts."
Cindy, your talk of controlling thinking, like in a Holodeck, reminds me of bio-feedback. Often, what we consider to be "pain" can be "thought away" if we have proper mind control. This capability makes one wonder what we could accomplish if we used a larger percentage of our brains.
The potential of humans, be it for good or bad, can be stunning or horrific. Ken Burns' "The War" shows both of man's capabilities to be noble or unbelievably cruel. I dread that the horrors of World War 2 might be minor compared to terrorists' capabilities to mass-murder with weapons of mass destruction.
Man can be so much more.
Teri Anne
Hi Teri, nice to see you back again. You are quite right about what would happen if we were able to tap into the brain 100%? Well I guess we would become quite fully conscious of not only this dimension but all and any other around us.
A portion of the Earth and mankind will perish in the next holocaust, but many will survive, we humans can be quite resilient and resourceful when it comes to surviving even through events of catastrophic proportions. When we become fully conscious there will be only one reality, for the simple reason is that we will know and be part of all dimensions within the One reality, the oneness within the One. Again this is about as far as I can go without consulting mathematical expressions, and there is also the fact that we have a shortage of adjectives which we are in dire need in order to go deeper down into the rabit hole.
Cindy
There is no doubt that people can have spiritual feelings. It takes a setup to encourage these feelings . Religion has many ways such as hymns traditions buildings that foster these feelings. Others use things like meditation and a sense of awe such as the vastness of space anything that lowers the sense of self. Spiritual feelings help most people live and foster a more pure way of living that encourages life. There are those who know these things the use the knowledge for selfish reasons. It never hurts to have reality checks to put it all in perspective.
Hi Lisagurl
Yes of course, you are quite correct. Here is a post I submitted elsewhere a while ago that I think fits what we are discussing here quite well
Once the mind is opened to the infinite potentialities the awareness continues to grow. The, normal world will never seem quite the same, Like what appears to be a jumble of unrelated sequences that just do not appear to have any destination. Do these knowings make one feel superior? No, quite contrary, it humbles the soul. It was these forces that lead me to and showed me who the true self within was.
To thine own self be true, then thou canst be false to no man.
Cindy
Posted on: October 08, 2007, 04:27:28 PM
Hi Teri Anne
I am just taking a chance you will revisit this thread. I wanted to tell you about 9-11, you are quite right, judging by how those buildings were built I was quite shocked and surprised to watch them coming all the way down to ground level in a mater of just a few seconds. I could see maybe some of the part above the damaged area coming down on top of where the planes had breached the buildings. But I find it hard to believe that the integrity of the entire buildings could have been weakened enough to rumple all the way to ground zero. I am no expert on this, but to me it smacked of a deliberate controlled building demolition.
But as for being prescient, for the last three days now I keep getting this mental image of a little girl sobbing sitting among some rubble with a piece of wall next to her is still standing intact. I noticed there was blood all over her and the poor thing had screamed till she couldn't any more. As I moved forward I could see this large wooden beam across her legs. Not being able to scream any more she began to bang her head on the partial wall that was still standing. It was so pathetic and I felt helpless to help her. I kept seeing this vision on and off for the last three days, I couldn't do anything to try to alleviate her pain, like a wounded animal in a trap. My soul mate took me out for a ride and some Tim Horton's coffee but I just couldn't stop the tears from flowing.
I sometimes I wish I didn't have this gift of visions or prescience. Their not always nice. I lived with that and my gender dysphoria for way to many year. Now the gender thing has been dealt with. Before this I was being whacked from two sides and both phenomena was enough for people to think I was weird or nuts. Oh ye I made a short visit a couple times to the bug house but they couldn't find anything wrong. I guess even though I am the lady I wanted to be now, I can let myself have the luxury of saying, "I sure proved to myself I had more guts then a six stomached cow from planet Zangi." and the balls I had before the surgery. Can't say I don't have the survival instinct of a Martian cockroach.
Well at least I haven't lost my sense of humor. ;D
Have a wonderful day girl friend.
Cindy
QuoteI am no expert on this, but to me it smacked of a deliberate controlled building demolition.
You can engineer things to meet all expected conditions. It was never expected that that much energy form the burning jet fuel would happen creating temperatures that melt the steel. The same condition can happen when buildings are professionally imploded.
I don't believe in co-conspirator theories regarding the Twin Towers. I've seen a few documentaries that talk of the melting steel which was subjected to far higher temperatures than any ordinary fire (and an ordinary fire, of course, would have triggered the sprinklers). The foam sprayed on steel members can only do so much...
From about.com/architecture:
"1. Most fires don't get hotter than 900 to 1,100 degrees F. The World Trade Center fire may have reached 1,300 or 1,400 degrees F. Structural steel does not easily melt, but it will lose about half its strength at 1,200 degrees F. The steel structure of the Twin Towers was weakened by the extreme heat. The steel also became distorted because the heat was not a uniform temperature.
2. Most fires start in one area and then spread. The fire from the terrorist planes covered the area of an entire floor almost instantly. As the weakened floors began to collapse, they crashed into the floors below. With the weight of the plunging floors accelerating, the exterior walls buckled."
Cindy, I don't doubt that some people have negative visions but, as I mentioned earlier, why don't people have visions of good things (like which horse or stock to pick, lol)? I suppose that a certain kind of energy may be released with negative things.
I'm gonna start a new post and hopefully this one will die -- I think we might get more participation if I just call it "Science discussions" -- I'll put it under "General Discussions" (same location as this thread):
Susan's Place Transgender Forums > General Discussions > General discussions >
That way we can legitimately talk about a multitude of things rather than just "Big Bang Theory of Universe Creation/Destruction & Galileo." See you, Cindy and Lisagurl, over at the "Science Discussions" thread!
Teri Anne