Themes relevant to this topic have been making their rounds lately and I wanted to consoladate the core topic discussion here. The questions are :
Is Honest the best policy? What circumstances is it better to lie? Should people on the forums expect honesty from others or words that will make them feel better about themselves? Would it be better for them if they knew the truth? How does it feel when you know someone is lying to you?
Those are just a couple of questions hitting at the theme here. I'm trying to determine both specifically here and in general when and why lying is utilized.
Marq and Mia
On these forums (and any other forums I frequent, particularly those where I know members offline), I go by 'honesty is the best policy' most of the time. If I feel as if the person I'm addressing is going to be seriously offended/upset/disheartened by what I choose to say, I might think twice about saying it. But generally speaking, it's best to be honest. It's got me warned on other forums, but once I've explained my case moderators (and other forum members alike) have seen that I was trying to do the right thing. That's what I think is ultimately important, having the right intentions.
I personally believe that honesty is the best policy, and it has to begin with being honest with yourself for if you can't be honest with yourself you're not going to be able to be honest with others. If others can't handle the truth then it's their problem not mine.
Steph
Sometimes i lie to get by. In the past I've had to tell lies to keep my job. But in general i am usually honest. On this forum there are people that have delusions about themselves. With people like that is better to keep quite and say nothing then to be honest with them.
I believe in trying to be as honest as one can, but when it comes to saying to someone that they're not very passable or they don't make a convincing member of the opposite sex, taking their feelings into consideration, how hard they've worked and what they possibly gave up to get where they're at, I just don't have the heart to hurt someone that way. So honesty is not always the best policy.
Sometimes certain truths can cause someone to commit suicide.
I believe that there's always a way to 'dress up' the truth that would make it more gentle to the person you're talking to. ;)
I hate it when people lie to me, even if they claim they only wanted to "protect" me from the truth ::). I think if someone asks you for the truth and they don't like your answer, they have no right to get mad at you. They asked for honesty and you responded with honesty. Depending on what it is though, you may want to "soften" the truth a little or even tell a little white lie to avoid hurting that person's feelings.
Additionally, if brutal honesty is intended to save someone from harming or destroying himself/herself (i.e, drugs, a bad relationship, delusional expectations etc.) then IMO it's absolutely called for; however, if it's just to give someone a reality check, then more often than not, it'll just be perceived as being hurtful, for people don't usually like reality checks ;)
The bottom line is this:
If people don't want to hear the truth, then they shouldn't ask for it. It is as simple as this really.
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Tink on September 13, 2007, 09:27:32 PM
If people don't want to hear the truth, then they shouldn't ask for it. It is as simple as this really.
I think part of the art of compassion is in sensing if someone IS asking for
The Truth... or if it's a veiled plea for encouragement and support.
And on the other side, many people will portray themselves as being "honest and truthful" when they're simply being arrogant and hurtful to make themselves look
Better Than.
The dances of being human...
~Kate~
Quote from: Kate on September 13, 2007, 09:45:22 PM
Quote from: Tink on September 13, 2007, 09:27:32 PM
If people don't want to hear the truth, then they shouldn't ask for it. It is as simple as this really.
I think part of the art of compassion is in sensing if someone IS asking for The Truth... or if it's a veiled plea for encouragement and support.
And on the other side, many people will portray themselves as being "honest and truthful" when they're simply being arrogant and hurtful to make themselves look Better Than.
The dances of being human...
~Kate~
That's true, but we also have to take into account that some people have underlying insecurity issues (i.e, inferiority complex) & often feel victimized by the comments of others; IOW anything you say will be taken personally or as an insult. A difficult situation indeed and most people are not willing to deal with that melodrama.
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Marq and Mia on September 13, 2007, 04:03:33 AM
Is Honest the best policy?
Almost always.
Quote from: Marq and Mia on September 13, 2007, 04:03:33 AMWhat circumstances is it better to lie?
I'm not sure there any circumstances like that.
Quote from: Karla B on September 13, 2007, 11:40:41 AM
I believe in trying to be as honest as one can, but when it comes to saying to someone that they're not very passable or they don't make a convincing member of the opposite sex, taking their feelings into consideration, how hard they've worked and what they possibly gave up to get where they're at, I just don't have the heart to hurt someone that way. So honesty is not always the best policy.
I do believe that honesty is the best policy. but there is such a thing as being tactful while being honest. with the example that is given here about someone making a convincing member of the opposite sex sometimes I think "passing" like alot of things are in the eye of the beholder. I have met alot of women that if it wasn't for clear markers of clothing and make-up I would have had a hard time determining thier sex. and if it concerns something other than looks being honest and giving advise to help is probably better than lying for thier benifit. just remember that most born women don't even fit into the mold of the idea of the perfect feminine being.
Quote from: Tink on September 13, 2007, 09:27:32 PM
Additionally, if brutal honesty is intended to save someone from harming or destroying himself/herself (i.e, drugs, a bad relationship, delusional expectations etc.) then IMO it's absolutely called for; however, if it's just to give someone a reality check, then more often than not, it'll just be perceived as being hurtful, for people don't usually like reality checks ;)
The bottom line is this:
If people don't want to hear the truth, then they shouldn't ask for it. It is as simple as this really.
tink :icon_chick:
I coincide. Honesty is always best. Yes, sometimes it hurts when somebody is very honest. But in the end it garners respect. What is not always best is the approach to honesty. Really bad, horrid news... still be honest. But try to always be tactful. Sometimes you can't be. But try, anyway. Lies and deception lead to more lies, or the truth anyway. And nothing is worse than finding out the truth and realising that what came before was a tangled web of lies. One ends up feeling both stupid and deceived.
whatever it is it's all lies, the end justifies the means..
I try to be honest or tell the truth, no matter how much it hurts me or the person or people involved...you at least owe it to them to decide and do what is best for them.
it is the best policy. you can't go wrong with the truth. the trouble is, some people aren't ready to realize and accept the truth, so they lash out at you when you speak it.
Quote from: Tink on September 13, 2007, 09:56:31 PM
most people are not willing to deal with that melodrama.
what can i tell ya? some people enjoy moaning.. ;)
Quote from: Butterfly on September 14, 2007, 05:15:58 AM
whatever it is it's all lies, the end justifies the means..
I try to be honest or tell the truth, no matter how much it hurts me or the person or people involved...you at least owe it to them to decide and do what is best for them.
Honesty shouldn't be about consequentialism, it should be intentional. That is, the means should justify the ends, not the other way around.
Honesty is the best policy, however it is also important to tell someone criticism in a constructive, non-hurtful way.
y2gen
Candor implies blunt and direct speech and so does honesty. I firmly believe that honesty is the best policy. I also believe that some ppl cannot take the weigh that honesty puts on them.
Honesty is my policy. However, there's a-many different ways to deliver truth, and although I fail most of the time I do attempt to be subtle, and at least think before I make a statement.
When it comes to forums this process is a lot easier; if I know my opinion could possibly hurt an individual then I will keep it to myself and ignore the thread rather than bashing right into it. Opinions can be great, but I see no need to go poke everyone between the ribs.
As for real life (well, aren't we brutally screwed then?) I am very direct, honest and definitely not liked by everyone, but (similar to the forums) I don't shy away from giving individuals a reality-check if necessary, and would rather be considered a jerk than a liar. If someone asks me for my opinion directly, and I know it will hurt them then I warn them beforehand and ask if they still want my opinion -- naturally the warning itself already has an alike effect, but does confess of some consideration[...]
Likewise; I'd rather be friends with a complete arse than with a liar.
Agreed. Always! I am a stickler about that...even if it might hurt someone's feelings, perhaps they have something to gain from that. If peeps are not able to handle the truth, they shouldn't ask for my opinion because more likely I will tell them what they don't wanna hear.
Quote from: Butterfly on September 14, 2007, 05:15:58 AM
I try to be honest or tell the truth, no matter how much it hurts me or the person or people involved...
I will always be honest when I answer the question. But that doesn't mean I'm required to answer every question. For example, if someone came to me as a therapist and asked, "Do you think I pass?" my likely answer would be, "Do
you think you pass?" My opinion on the matter isn't nearly as important as how that person feels about passing.
My opinion is that honesty is always the best policy though there is such a thing as tact in presenting honesty.
Rashelle
I'm usually pretty honest with people. Except for the fact that this site, and my questions "dont exist", I usually tell the truth in the end.
This thing though...I don't even know what to think.
yea be honest but dont be f#cking mean or rude. u want respect?. then show respect.
So it seems like most people think that honesty in one form or another is important. The follow up thought for discussion is
"Is this honesty given out only when directly asked for or also in instances where its not directly asked for but would still have impact on the person?"
I'll stray from the obvious example that gets discussed alot on here because it certainly isn't the only time opinions matter.
Example situation 1: You're eatting at a resteraunt and one of the people from your dinner party expresses interest in purchasing a plate that in the past you've felt was not really that good or it made you sick. Would you say something? Certainly its possible you just didn't like it and that the plate is perfectly alright, so this one is about sharing your honest opinion where perception can vary.
Example situation 2: More food(wonder if I'm hungry)
Someone is cooking dinner for you. You eat the meal and you either aren't impressed or you disliked to varying degrees. They may think they cook alright or that they're the next best thing to happen to cooking. Do you express your distaste for their meal? Does it matter if they asked how it was or if they just don't bring it up?
This one is probably a lot closer to the "taking offense" stipulation that was placed in many peoples responses.
Have at it......there is much to be learned this day
Marq and Mia
Quote from: Marq and Mia on September 15, 2007, 03:48:48 AM
Example situation 1: You're eatting at a resteraunt and one of the people from your dinner party expresses interest in purchasing a plate that in the past you've felt was not really that good or it made you sick. Would you say something? Certainly its possible you just didn't like it and that the plate is perfectly alright, so this one is about sharing your honest opinion where perception can vary.
I would point out my reasons for choosing a different plate; "Ah you're choosing that? I decided not to since it wasn't much to my liking when I ordered it previously." If they ask me why then I will point out the meal's flavour that collided with my personal taste -- from that they can draw their own conclusions and decide whether or not they will enjoy the plate.
QuoteExample situation 2: More food(wonder if I'm hungry)
Someone is cooking dinner for you. You eat the meal and you either aren't impressed or you disliked to varying degrees. They may think they cook alright or that they're the next best thing to happen to cooking. Do you express your distaste for their meal? Does it matter if they asked how it was or if they just don't bring it up?
This one is probably a lot closer to the "taking offense" stipulation that was placed in many peoples responses.
Hehe go eat something. As for the example[...]
First off, not everyone is a chef so I wouldn't bring it up unless asked the cliché question "How was it." My answer to that would be rather tactful (I suppose); "How did you make it? What did you put into it?" At their answer I'd make small suggestions at how to better the taste according to my own personal flavour. Surely, they can take offense since I am correcting their recipe, but I'd do it conversational wise, and if it did turn out into a snappy discussion from their side I'd simply point out different tastes and note that I can't help it that mine varies from theirs. 8)
Quote from: Marq and Mia on September 15, 2007, 03:48:48 AM
Example situation 1: You're eatting at a resteraunt and one of the people from your dinner party expresses interest in purchasing a plate that in the past you've felt was not really that good or it made you sick. Would you say something? Certainly its possible you just didn't like it and that the plate is perfectly alright, so this one is about sharing your honest opinion where perception can vary.
That depends on whether the plate is being ordered as the group appetizer or as the person's individual plate. If the former, I'd come right out and say it was nasty (this depends on who the suggester happens to be) and suggest something else. If the latter, I'd politely inform them that the particular dish wasn't very good at this restaurant.
Quote from: Marq and Mia on September 15, 2007, 03:48:48 AM
Example situation 2: More food(wonder if I'm hungry)
Someone is cooking dinner for you. You eat the meal and you either aren't impressed or you disliked to varying degrees. They may think they cook alright or that they're the next best thing to happen to cooking. Do you express your distaste for their meal? Does it matter if they asked how it was or if they just don't bring it up?
This one is probably a lot closer to the "taking offense" stipulation that was placed in many peoples responses.
I'm a frequent flyer in this situation, as first off I'm an extremely picky eater and secondly, dishes I do enjoy must be cooked and presented in a certain manner to be edible. In this situation, I'd sooner die than express my distaste even if asked and always show appreciation for their efforts.
I lie through my teeth that it was great, despite evidence to the contrary - one or two bites tops. I can't force myself anymore than that.
As a result, people who don't know me well always end up extremely and obviously insulted, some blowing a gasket and others silent.
I enjoy cooking. As a cook it is always nice to hear compliments from the diners, but if something doesn't work it is equally important for me to hear that as well. The only way we can better ourselves (or our culinary skills) is through feedback about what works and what doesn't.
Having said that, it is also important to remember that the manner of presenting comments is important. If I am invited to a dinner party and I do not like what is served, I am not going to announce to everyone at the table that the food is terrible. If the hostess asks me my opinion, I will be honest in a polite way. Communication is a social skill that aims at building understanding between people. If we are not honest then we destroy the basis for that understanding, but if we embarrass or offend the person with whom we are communicating then we also destroy the basis for common understanding.
Quote from: Steph on September 13, 2007, 05:47:52 AM
I personally believe that honesty is the best policy, and it has to begin with being honest with yourself for if you can't be honest with yourself you're not going to be able to be honest with others. If others can't handle the truth then it's their problem not mine.
Steph
I quite agree with Steph here. :)
Quote from: Marq and Mia on September 15, 2007, 03:48:48 AM
So it seems like most people think that honesty in one form or another is important. The follow up thought for discussion is
"Is this honesty given out only when directly asked for or also in instances where its not directly asked for but would still have impact on the person?"
I'll stray from the obvious example that gets discussed alot on here because it certainly isn't the only time opinions matter.
Example situation 1: You're eatting at a resteraunt and one of the people from your dinner party expresses interest in purchasing a plate that in the past you've felt was not really that good or it made you sick. Would you say something? Certainly its possible you just didn't like it and that the plate is perfectly alright, so this one is about sharing your honest opinion where perception can vary.
I would explain my experience with the dish but I would tell the person that it might have just been me.
[/quote]
Example situation 2: More food(wonder if I'm hungry)
Someone is cooking dinner for you. You eat the meal and you either aren't impressed or you disliked to varying degrees. They may think they cook alright or that they're the next best thing to happen to cooking. Do you express your distaste for their meal? Does it matter if they asked how it was or if they just don't bring it up?
This one is probably a lot closer to the "taking offense" stipulation that was placed in many peoples responses.
Have at it......there is much to be learned this day
Marq and Mia
[/quote]
I have run into this situation alot most people are going to think I am mean and rude but anyone who knows me knows that if I don't like something as soon as I taste it I will find a trash can or toilet to spit it out in and I will tell the person that I don't like it. in most cases I offer to take the person out to eat on me. and I always thank them for the effort they have put into a meal. I just can't handle to try to eat a food I don't like!
No matter the reason, honesty wins all the time. Facing the truth or letting other ppl show you the truth shouldnt be such a big deal if you know yourself and are sincere with yourself.