Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hey ladies!

There is a lot of information on this forum.. thank you to the wonderful women who have shared their VFS journeys here! Certainly been extremely helpful for me, but I had specific questions and figured I could maybe turn this into a VFS journey thread of my own once I decide on a surgeon.

The backstory: I have a decent trained voice, but need a lot of focus and energy to firstly reach the desired pitch, and then more energy to maintain it. Needless to say it becomes really draining, especially since I work at one of the busiest fast food joints in San Diego, quite literally talking non-stop the entirety of my shifts.  Recently I have become really dysphoric, stressed, and anxious about the passability of my voice and want this fixed once and for all.

As it stands I have enough money for Dr. Haben, but need to spend another 12 months saving if I wanted to go with Dr. Kim. I do not make a lot of money and do not know if I can wait any longer.

What I am looking for, in order of importance:
- Ultimately I want it to be a lot easier for myself, if not effortless, to talk in trained voice
- Pitch increase would be AMAZING, but is it safe to assume my decent trained voice is as good as it's going to get?
- Lower range reduced/eliminated would be nice, but not as important as other two.

What do you ladies think? Are the results between Haben and Kim close enough that I should just go for VFS right now? Would I want to spend another year saving and go with Yeson?

Hi Roni:

I am sort in the same inquiry.  I don't think there's a huge statistical difference between the top FVS doc's.  It comes down to intangibles and personal chemistry I think.

If I do this and I'm on the fence, I'll do it here in the States and possibly here in LA where I live.

Rachel

As much as I like Dr Kim, and would go to him again, the glottoplasty procedure is more or less the same between the two except for some slightly different methods and different recovery instructions. Dr Kim also uses a permanent suture. Dr Haben does not.

But based on what I see here most of the results are similar for the glottoplasty.

Dr Kim does not do CTA or trach shave anymore but you probably don't need either.

QuoteUltimately I want it to be a lot easier for myself, if not effortless, to talk in trained voice

Varies. No surgery fixes resonance. If you have resonance issues you will have them post op. However since you don't have to worry about pitch it should be easier to control resonance. I am lucky in that I don't talk any special way at all. I just talk. I don't have much resonance issues. Some do have them and they require training and have to consciously think about it, until it just becomes second nature.

You will most likely have to do training afterwards but it will be much less effort than training a male voice.

QuotePitch increase would be AMAZING, but is it safe to assume my decent trained voice is as good as it's going to get?

It depends. No surgeon wants to give you a mickey mouse voice. During your consult you can discuss but you will most likely end up with a voice that matches your physical appearance, which is as best as I can put it. For example a tall, large woman will not have a high pitched voice.

Some women come out with a voice sounding about the same as their trained voice. Some come out sounding much better. A few come out sounding forced and overly falsetto. There's no real way to predict it but nearly all seems to be fixed by training.

I will go against the trend here and say that it is better if your voice is not trained in the first place because you won't have to un-learn old habits.

QuoteLower range reduced/eliminated would be nice, but not as important as other two.

Most should be gone. Mine is totally gone. I cannot make any lower pitches anymore, even if I try. If I try to talk like a dude I sound like a woman trying to talk like a dude.

Quote from: iKate on September 05, 2015, 10:50:17 AM
As much as I like Dr Kim, and would go to him again, the glottoplasty procedure is more or less the same between the two except for some slightly different methods and different recovery instructions. Dr Kim also uses a permanent suture. Dr Haben does not.

I believe there are other differences - in the way the stitches are done and such - the permanent sutures have different effects - one is that they can be tightened better, giving the suture a stronger bonding in the first weeks, the other is that the suture is held in place longer, which is why others who do not use permanent sutures give anti reflux medications to keep the sutures in place as long as possible...
How much of a difference this makes - who knows. What is the key to a good voice post op is probably that the surgeon is skilled, does a good and clean, symmetric suture that leaves no scars exposed to the airflow. Also to follow rigid post op intructions and rather be overly careful than not. And of course post op voice training is important for most.

QuoteSome women come out with a voice sounding about the same as their trained voice. Some come out sounding much better. A few come out sounding forced and overly falsetto. There's no real way to predict it but nearly all seems to be fixed by training.

I think the latter mostly comes from those women not having unlearned the old habits of voice training or because they are trying to push the voice higher than the surgery provided them with and use bad technique to do so.

Quote
I will go against the trend here and say that it is better if your voice is not trained in the first place because you won't have to un-learn old habits.

Having my experience as it stands, I think you are right there. I guess some things are good about pre op voice training, some things are counterproductive , especially after long times. I totally struggle with unlearning old voice control habits now that they harm my voice instead of making it sound more feminine.

QuoteMost should be gone. Mine is totally gone. I cannot make any lower pitches anymore, even if I try. If I try to talk like a dude I sound like a woman trying to talk like a dude.

I can go pretty low - useable lowest pitch is C3, but up to now the feedback was that even in that range i sound female and either those pitches just occur for short moments in conversations, or if I try to speak in that range it also sounds like a woman trying to sound like a guy. I can make sounds down to A2 though, which is really low, but this is rather unusual for being post VFS and that pitch range is very weak and I could not really sing or speak at a normal volume in that area - its the low end of my voice, pretty much working similar to the low end of the voice pre-VFS which was the same - I could make sounds down to 80 Hz, but it was very weak.

CTA seems to be a sure way to get rid of the lows, but from what I know about it I still will not recommend it to anyone, although it does have some advantages if one can live with the disadvantages. Doing CTA only requires a much shorter healing period, will eliminate the lows, is safe in terms of post OP further surgeries with intubations. But it only simulates your pitch gain during voice training, no other changes to the voice happen, you loose more vocal range, especially singing seems to be limited in ability, there is a scar on the neck and the amount of pitch gain depends highly on your physiology (distance of two cartilages near the adams apple).

Both doctors have turned out some pretty impressive work and I am a Dr Haben fan. The voices on his website are typical results and many of the voices posted here are better.

What you need to do is understand what your current voice is like and how it should be changed. I made a map like this Lowest usable note 80Hz, male speaking voice was above that.
Mouth voice 130-196Hz
Falsetto voice 155-237Hz
Whistler voice 250-490Hz
and included it with other information to Dr Haben's office. Within a couple of days I received his recommendation based on my weigh and hight as to what he could do. I suspect provided with the same information, Dr Kim could do the same for you. Should you need help mapping out your voice, let me know.

Which ever doctor you go to there will be down time. Dr Kim want a month without speaking and Dr Haben only wants 8 days. Dr Haben also wants 2 1/2 weeks of limited use. I am out at the 8 week mark and I think have some healing issues but the voice can't withstand heavy use without losing pitch. For me, final healing might run past 3 months. I can use the voice in normal conversation but the pitch where be below where I want it in a long conversation. You should be able to work 5 days or sooner out of surgery if you don't use your voice. It took me several days to get the drugs they gave me in surgery out of my system but most people don't react that way.

Most important is ask many detailed questions. Feel free to post here or message me and I will answer what I know about Dr Haben. Anja and Ikate are very knowledgable about Dr Kim. Make use of us because you only get one shot at this surgery.

I am not sure about these 4 voice types you describe - I never realized that there can be 4. For me it always seemed that I can do a chest voice and a head voice and maybe a low pitched harsh more male voice within the chest voice range.... how did you measure those ranges?

Quote from: anjaq on September 05, 2015, 05:14:54 PM
I am not sure about these 4 voice types you describe - I never realized that there can be 4. For me it always seemed that I can do a chest voice and a head voice and maybe a low pitched harsh more male voice within the chest voice range.... how did you measure those ranges?

The whistler is pretty useless and Falsetto was listed because attempted to hit the range I needed using it. It wasn't needed for surgery. To hit the two higher voice you need very light air pressure and light tension on the vocal cords. I could easily crank out the volume in the upper ranges but not everybody can. I did my measuring with the PitchLab app on my phone and playing with the limits of my voice. I don't know if the upper two voices will work in my surgical voice and I am not going to play with them until I am sure I am healed.

My lowest chest number was just my male voice at a comfortable level. I didn't attempt any super low pitches or play with Fry. I didn't measure it but I think my male speaking voice was about 90 to 100Hz. NOT very feminine.

Thank you Qrachel, Ikate, Dena, and Anjaq for the replies! :D

I am headed to work right now and will reply when I get home tonight. you've all helped me a ton!

I am not sure how we helped you. Rereading the thread it sounds like we told you to flip a coin  ;D

Sooo, all said and done it's personal, there's risk, and best case for each individual varies . . . yes, that's about how I see it: A crap shoot with decent odds!   >:-)

R

Quote from: anjaq on September 05, 2015, 01:31:49 PM
I believe there are other differences - in the way the stitches are done and such - the permanent sutures have different effects - one is that they can be tightened better, giving the suture a stronger bonding in the first weeks, the other is that the suture is held in place longer, which is why others who do not use permanent sutures give anti reflux medications to keep the sutures in place as long as possible...
How much of a difference this makes - who knows. What is the key to a good voice post op is probably that the surgeon is skilled, does a good and clean, symmetric suture that leaves no scars exposed to the airflow. Also to follow rigid post op intructions and rather be overly careful than not. And of course post op voice training is important for most.


CTA seems to be a sure way to get rid of the lows, but from what I know about it I still will not recommend it to anyone, although it does have some advantages if one can live with the disadvantages. Doing CTA only requires a much shorter healing period, will eliminate the lows, is safe in terms of post OP further surgeries with intubations. But it only simulates your pitch gain during voice training, no other changes to the voice happen, you loose more vocal range, especially singing seems to be limited in ability, there is a scar on the neck and the amount of pitch gain depends highly on your physiology (distance of two cartilages near the adams apple).

Thanks Anjaq! So the two surgeons use different types of sutures, but it is not entirely known how much this affects the post-op voice, correct? So it seems to be a toss-up that I probably won't be too concerned about.

CTA reduces the lows, but you do not recommend it. In addition, I do not have as much interest getting rid of my low ranges as I do increasing my pitch. If this is the case I might end up just going with Dr Haben, however Dena's post does concern me a little bit.

Quote from: Dena on September 05, 2015, 03:10:17 PM
Which ever doctor you go to there will be down time. Dr Kim want a month without speaking and Dr Haben only wants 8 days. Dr Haben also wants 2 1/2 weeks of limited use. I am out at the 8 week mark and I think have some healing issues but the voice can't withstand heavy use without losing pitch. For me, final healing might run past 3 months. I can use the voice in normal conversation but the pitch where be below where I want it in a long conversation. You should be able to work 5 days or sooner out of surgery if you don't use your voice. It took me several days to get the drugs they gave me in surgery out of my system but most people don't react that way.

Was it much easier to talk long periods and maintain your pitch prior to the surgery? My worst fear is going through with this surgery only to sound worse than I did before, and finding it much more difficult to maintain my pitch! That is the problem I am currently facing in the first place. I have a, as far as I am aware, passing trained voice, but am having difficulties maintaining the pitch throughout long periods. I was kind of hoping getting the surgery would make it easier for me to speak. I talk non-stop for 6 hours at work.

Quote from: iKate on September 05, 2015, 10:50:17 AM

Varies. No surgery fixes resonance. If you have resonance issues you will have them post op. However since you don't have to worry about pitch it should be easier to control resonance. I am lucky in that I don't talk any special way at all. I just talk. I don't have much resonance issues. Some do have them and they require training and have to consciously think about it, until it just becomes second nature.

You will most likely have to do training afterwards but it will be much less effort than training a male voice.

It depends. No surgeon wants to give you a mickey mouse voice. During your consult you can discuss but you will most likely end up with a voice that matches your physical appearance, which is as best as I can put it. For example a tall, large woman will not have a high pitched voice.

Some women come out with a voice sounding about the same as their trained voice. Some come out sounding much better. A few come out sounding forced and overly falsetto. There's no real way to predict it but nearly all seems to be fixed by training.

I will go against the trend here and say that it is better if your voice is not trained in the first place because you won't have to un-learn old habits.

Most should be gone. Mine is totally gone. I cannot make any lower pitches anymore, even if I try. If I try to talk like a dude I sound like a woman trying to talk like a dude.

Thank you! They cannot possibly screw up that big and give me a mickey mouse voice, can they? Is this still a possibility with these types of surgeries? I am also a short, 5'4 Asian woman, so if I did end up with a very high pitched voice it would probably suit my height and ethnicity.

Quote from: Roni on September 09, 2015, 07:26:43 PM
Thank you! They cannot possibly screw up that big and give me a mickey mouse voice, can they? Is this still a possibility with these types of surgeries? I am also a short, 5'4 Asian woman, so if I did end up with a very high pitched voice it would probably suit my height and ethnicity.

They can but I think they have good judgment.

I'm 5'6" Indian ethnicity, size 8-10. They gave me 1/3 suture and my voice is around 220-260Hz. It matches me pretty well.

There have been a couple of cases where people sound like a bad impression of a man trying to sound like a woman but those are rare. And usually they can get better with training.

I think you'll be fine tbh

Quote from: iKate on September 09, 2015, 07:31:03 PM
They can but I think they have good judgment.

I'm 5'6" Indian ethnicity, size 8-10. They gave me 1/3 suture and my voice is around 220-260Hz. It matches me pretty well.

There have been a couple of cases where people sound like a bad impression of a man trying to sound like a woman but those are rare. And usually they can get better with training.

I think you'll be fine tbh

Thanks girl. :) I am this close to sending Dr. Haben an email but will wait for Dena's response.

Quote from: Roni on September 09, 2015, 07:15:44 PM
Was it much easier to talk long periods and maintain your pitch prior to the surgery? My worst fear is going through with this surgery only to sound worse than I did before, and finding it much more difficult to maintain my pitch! That is the problem I am currently facing in the first place. I have a, as far as I am aware, passing trained voice, but am having difficulties maintaining the pitch throughout long periods. I was kind of hoping getting the surgery would make it easier for me to speak. I talk non-stop for 6 hours at work.

No matter which doctor you pick, there are healing issues. When I had SRS, I spent months trying to pee on the wall because I had swelling that was slow to go down. I now have the proper angle and the wall are safe. I am two months out and if I don't attempt to compete with other noise or a dead battery in my mom's hearing aid, I can maintain my voice longer. If I need to push the volume up the voice fades and I lose pitch. Post surgically I was starting the 3rd week before my voice sounded like something other than a whisper. You will find a girl in the voice section that still hasn't fully regained her voice at 3 months and there are voice samples where she sounds overly breathy. Others have posted clean voices at 6 weeks.
I can feel the fact my voice hasn't fully healed but when it does, I see no reason I couldn't uses it for 6 to 8 hours. Even now I lose the pitch, but the volume is still there. I had to come up so far off the Bass voice that I still need to use my trained voice but I now am able to reach a range I couldn't before and I don't need to push the voice for additional pitch. Remember my male speaking voice was 90-100Hz. Trained I could comfortably work 130-140Hz. A falsetto would push me to 170Hz. Post surgical my chest voice would be 140-150Hz and trained seems to have a sweet spot of around 200-210Hz. I can drop the trained to around 170Hz and am comfortable with inflection over 300Hz. Not bad for a voice that couldn't work 190Hz before surgery.

One other issue Ikate mentioned. I was sutured at 40% but this is a little miss leading. One of my vocal cords is long that the other and the suture is based on the longer cord. Where it based on the shorter cord, I would have a 50% suture.
My pitch improvement is based off the longer cord and sadly, nothing could be done to correct the cord length as a nerve runs through the cord. To cut the cord would have damaged my voice .

The real question is we don't know what your pre surgical voice look like. I had to use a trained voice but Ikate said she didn't need to and her voice sound great. She also didn't have to come up nearly as far as I did.

Quote from: Roni on September 09, 2015, 07:15:44 PM
Was it much easier to talk long periods and maintain your pitch prior to the surgery? My worst fear is going through with this surgery only to sound worse than I did before, and finding it much more difficult to maintain my pitch! That is the problem I am currently facing in the first place. I have a, as far as I am aware, passing trained voice, but am having difficulties maintaining the pitch throughout long periods. I was kind of hoping getting the surgery would make it easier for me to speak. I talk non-stop for 6 hours at work.

I could not maintain my "trained" pitch, the little  that I tried. It just did not work.

Post op I make zero effort at all. I just talk.

I also talk a lot at work on conference calls, meetings and such. I used to get a little tired initially but now not at all, and i'm 2 months almost 3 months post op.

But everyone's mileage varies. Some do get tired even after months post op, but it almost always gets easier, just how much is up in the air. That said if you can maintain your voice pre op you can do it post op.

Hi, Roni. I absolutely loved working with Dr. Haben and his staff, and love my results so far. If you need the CTA and the trach shave, you can't beat Haben 's pricing. If you don' T want to wait to accumulate more money to go to Dr.  Kim, you could go to Haben. Results seem to be terrific from both sides, so in your case, I'm thinking it comes down to money and time frame? You wouldn't need a passport for Haben either. If you don't have a passport and want to see Dr. Kim, that's another 150 to 200 on top. Also, if days off or days out of the country is a deal for you, Haben only needs you a couple days whereas Dr.  Kim keeps you like ten, I think? Really, I think it's these ancillary considerations that will make or break one of these surgeon's fit for you, not really the quality of their work. They are both top notch professionals.

I recently visited Dr. Toby Mayer about FVS. He was pretty candid: He said he can do the op with almost no down side risk. Getting a 'great' voice is something he can't predict. "I can give you significant improvement and once in a while it's a home run. It's your call and I'll support you all the way.  Just be realistic about where we are with surgery."

I was impressed with his candor.  I've listened to maybe 150+ voices now from Drs. on the Internet and here's my unscientific opinion:  <5% not improved, <20% barely improved, >70% somewhat to decent improvement,>30% excellent improvement, <10% completely feminine (does not add up to 100%).  I think in over 65-75% of the cases with follow-up training the voice would be considered feme. NOTE: THIS IS NOT PROVIDED AS ADVICE OR SCIENTIFICALLY VERIFIABLE DATA.  THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY!

It's still iffy as I see it but I'm inclined to seriously consider it.  For people like me with lots of professional voice training pre-op I consider it worthy of serious consideration.  YMMV

Rachel

All righty Dena and Ikate! I'm convinced I will be going with Dr. Haben now and just sent him an email asking about the soonest available surgery dates. Thanks ladies! Gah! I'm so nervous and excited haha. I will also try and get up a few samples of my "different" pre-op voices and trained speaking voice in the next couple of days.

Quote from: Cadence Jean on September 10, 2015, 02:57:56 PM
Hi, Roni. I absolutely loved working with Dr. Haben and his staff, and love my results so far. If you need the CTA and the trach shave, you can't beat Haben 's pricing. If you don' T want to wait to accumulate more money to go to Dr.  Kim, you could go to Haben. Results seem to be terrific from both sides, so in your case, I'm thinking it comes down to money and time frame? You wouldn't need a passport for Haben either. If you don't have a passport and want to see Dr. Kim, that's another 150 to 200 on top. Also, if days off or days out of the country is a deal for you, Haben only needs you a couple days whereas Dr.  Kim keeps you like ten, I think? Really, I think it's these ancillary considerations that will make or break one of these surgeon's fit for you, not really the quality of their work. They are both top notch professionals.

Hi Cadence! :)

My adam's apple is unnoticeable if not non-existent, so I lucked out in that department. I have decided I will only be going for Dr. Haben's Feminization Laryngoplasty surgery.

And yes! The fact that I do not have to travel out of the country has been a huge factor in my decision. :)

Great and good luck . . . key us posted on your progress.

R   ;)

Quote from: Roni on September 11, 2015, 01:16:35 AM
All righty Dena and Ikate! I'm convinced I will be going with Dr. Haben now and just sent him an email asking about the soonest available surgery dates. Thanks ladies! Gah! I'm so nervous and excited haha. I will also try and get up a few samples of my "different" pre-op voices and trained speaking voice in the next couple of days.

Hi Cadence! :)

My adam's apple is unnoticeable if not non-existent, so I lucked out in that department. I have decided I will only be going for Dr. Haben's Feminization Laryngoplasty surgery.

And yes! The fact that I do not have to travel out of the country has been a huge factor in my decision. :)

Congrats! My apple also is not noticeable, in fact I have to feel around for it. My voice was also late to drop in puberty so I'm guessing that's why I don't have as much issues with resonance.

Good luck and looking forward to hearing you!

Quote from: Roni on September 11, 2015, 01:16:35 AM
All righty Dena and Ikate! I'm convinced I will be going with Dr. Haben now and just sent him an email asking about the soonest available surgery dates. Thanks ladies! Gah! I'm so nervous and excited haha. I will also try and get up a few samples of my "different" pre-op voices and trained speaking voice in the next couple of days.

Learn as much as you can about your current voice as far as comfortable pitches and where you want to be because in my case what I learned from Dr Haben changed my expectations. I knew before going I was going to need all the boost I could get and I was ready to argue that point if needed. The problem was Dr Haben could only promise 60Hz and not the 75 to 80 I was hoping for. I decided on the fly that the 60Hz was the best offer in town as Dr Kim couldn't have done any better so I took it. This is a place where being a well informed consumer is very important to avoid disappointment after surgery. Dr Haben knows what is possible and can deliver but you need to understand that in most case, a high pitch female voice isn't possible. A middle to low pitched female voice is possible but in my case, I still need to use a trained voice but by not needing to push the pitch, I should be able to use the voice for hours on end like I did before surgery. My old trained voice sounded male but it would do 6 hours or more of phone support a day without problems.

Welcome to Team Haben!!

Best wishes!

As promised, some audio clips of my "different" voices, so you ladies can help paint me a realistic expectation for the surgery. I would love to attain a pitch equal to or even higher than my trained voice. But I also do not want to disappoint myself, so I will be perfectly content with a result where I am simply able to talk in trained voice more effortlessly.

I have had no form of professional voice training so I'm sorry If I am doing something wrong! I really only talk in three voices:

My "trained" voice (no chest resonance, pitch INcreased): http://vocaroo.com/i/s1f4aCFKkhQI
My "middle" voice (no chest resonance, pitch NOT increased): http://vocaroo.com/i/s0vRbBSEgOQH
My "natural" voice (with chest resonance, pitch NOT increased): http://vocaroo.com/i/s1q4M11v8OBZ

Thanks everyone!

Edit: I find I have a hint of a different accent when talking in my trained female voice. It's only because I have to change my inflection and prosody to pass.

LOL, I think all three sound feminine, even the last one. I wouldn't be surprised if the voice surgeons turned you away because they think you don't need the surgery.

Quote from: iKate on September 14, 2015, 07:27:52 PM
LOL, I think all three sound feminine, even the last one. I wouldn't be surprised if the voice surgeons turned you away because they think you don't need the surgery.

Would they really turn me away? :( Even if my natural speaking voice doesn't meet the female range? If they did operate on me, doesn't that only mean my natural voice will sit comfortably in the female range post-op, essentially what I wanted in the first place. I HATE the feeling when I am modifying or changing my pitch, it gives me a lot of stress, and would love more than anything to just have a natural female pitch.

Quote from: Roni on September 14, 2015, 07:34:09 PM
Would they really turn me away? :( Even if my natural speaking voice doesn't meet the female range? If they did operate on me, doesn't that only mean my natural voice will sit comfortably in the female range post-op?

I've heard or Dr Kim turning away a few because their pitch was already high enough. Don't know if Dr Haben will. I haven't measured the pitch but you sound feminine in all 3 recordings. As I said, don't worry about numbers. They really don't mean anything. Pre op I could talk at 200Hz but I definitely sounded like a dude.

I mean it's your money and your body so if you think you want the surgery go for it. But my opinion is that you don't really need it.

The three voices are high but the natural voice sounds like 160 -170 Hz and maybe a bit higher. Dr Haben would most likely suggest a lesser bump but I think he would still do the voice. You can offer to send a voice sample to him that he can evaluate before you put out the cash. I didn't make the offer with my samples because I mapped my old voice out and had a pretty good idea what he wanted to know.

In 3 months he will request I read the rainbow passage and email it to him as a surgical follow up so he would have the ability to evaluate you voice before you ever see him.

Quote from: Dena on September 14, 2015, 07:57:10 PM
The three voices are high but the natural voice sounds like 160 -170 Hz and maybe a bit higher. Dr Haben would most likely suggest a lesser bump but I think he would still do the voice. You can offer to send a voice sample to him that he can evaluate before you put out the cash. I didn't make the offer with my samples because I mapped my old voice out and had a pretty good idea what he wanted to know.

In 3 months he will request I read the rainbow passage and email it to him as a surgical follow up so he would have the ability to evaluate you voice before you ever see him.

Thanks Dena! I think that is good news for me, if my natural pitch seems to be 160-170Hz, hopefully VFS brings my natural pitch to 230-240Hz. At that point I can talk freely, ignoring pitch and only having to watch for resonance.

I'll definitely have to talk to Dr. Haben about how much of my vocal folds he can stitch. I'm hoping he will still do the 1/3 suture because that should put me in the 240 Hz range, and I think that will definitely match my height and ethnicity.

Also just went through Dr. Haben's FAQ and found this part interesting:

"How much can you raise the pitch?
A: The average is 8 semitones, or 2/3 of an octave or roughly 80 hertz for a combination of glottoplasty and CTA. Glottoplasty alone averages 7 semitones, or roughly 72 hertz of pitch elevation. The uppermost degree is limited by one's anatomy. Larger, stocky individuals tend to have less favorable anatomy than those more petite. Longer, thinner necks are easier to operate than shorter, thicker ones. The same is true for the glottoplasty. Thinner higher-pitched male voices are easier to operate than lower, thick, scarred, smokers, low pitched vocal cords."

It seems Haben favors working on higher-pitched "male" (pre-op) voices as he deems them easier to operate on?

I dunno if that's the case. He told me that I was around 130 hz. My analysis with Pratt told me I was more like 100hz, but I could easily have been doing something wrong. I suspect he'll still operate on you if you want him to. Just make sure to set clear expectations - if you want super high pitch then tell him that. If you want a medium bump, tell him that. He'll take care of you.

Oh, also, I've found that it's not so much that I achieved higher pitch than my trained voice, it's more like it's easier on me cuz I don't have to think about holding my larynx as much, and it sounds more natural now instead of strained. I think I've been slowly starting to hit a range higher than my trained voice as times now that I'm at the three month mark. So, perhaps I'll continue to see gains as I keep healing.

My voice was about as low as they come and without using my trained voice, I still can sound like a male post surgically. I knew this would be the case going in because male speaking voice was around 100Hz or G2. Using my trained voice post surgically isn't a problem because I have already used it for years comfortably. My pictures of the surgery are posted on my thread but the shorter cord appears to be tied at 50% which is about all the shorter you want the cord to be.

I am guessing but my post surgical voice sounds much like your pre surgically voice.

Second problem with "thiner". In the surgery the tools have to be angled to get the correct working angle. A thick neck makes it harder to get the right angle. I have a thin long neck which would be ideal but it is also muscular and gave Dr Haben problems in surgery. I paid for it several weeks after surgery with a sore mouth, teeth and neck. My teeth felt like they had been knocked lose. It felt like I went about 10 rounds with a professional fighter and lost. I was lucky and there was no tooth damage and my mouth is now back to normal but for the first few weeks I wanted soup or soft food that didn't require biting or chewing.

After thought, I am 6'2" which makes me big and many have contributed to some of the neck stiffness. I think you would have a smaller body than mine and put up less of a fight in surgery.

My voice was different than most in that no amount of training would allow me to hit the feminine range. I didn't expect a ready to use voice out of the surgery, just one where hitting the feminine range was possible with a trained voice. For most people, this isn't an issue and I don't think it will be in your case. Your surgery will be a tuneup instead move moving the starting line.

Roni, I think you sound female in the first two voice samples and somewhat "gay" in the third (probably coming from you using feminine inflection patterns in combination with male resonance). Your pitch is pretty high in all recordings, I think the second recording is totally ok, pitchwise it would be in the female range and your resonance control makes it sound that way too. What worries me is that you are straining your voice just by doing resonance changes - for this you should look for voice therapy in any case to see what you may be doing wrong there. Voice #2 should be possible to use in a relaxed way without straining from talking long.
The trained voice sounds ok, although you seem to add a bit of a different speech pattern to it - it sounds like you have a slight lisp there - the pitch is really high, I think it is not necessary to use that high of a pitch if it is uncomfortable for you.
That said, of course voice and body need to match and if you are as you said short and petite, maybe voice #2 would be too low. In that case, Dr Kim would also not turn you away, because he recognizes the need to match these two things. The main reason he would turn away someone, or at least first recommend against surgery is that the voice is going to be too high for your stature, body size, etc - or that your vocal chords are already short, which is the case in some transwomen coming there for voice surgery but already have rather high voices. You cannot shorten the chords much more if they are already short - you need to leave enough room for breathing.

So I would do the following first: Send a recording of you reading the "rainbow passage" in all three voices to Dr Kim, tell him your body stats, maybe send him a full body photo alomg with it and ask if surgery would make sense. Then, optionally, you could get to a local ENT and let them do an endoscopic examination of your vocal folds, keep the video or photos they make and the full report and send that to Dr Kim. If they can, let them measure the length of the chords.
In any case, I would recommend booking a few (maybe just 5) sessions at a voice coach to deal with the issue of you straiing your voice even if you do not alter pitch. Maybe you picked up some bad habits like I did to change your voice and those can be a rock in the path after VFS when it comes to healing and finding your new , higher pitched voice.

Quote from: anjaq on September 15, 2015, 11:28:26 AM
Roni, I think you sound female in the first two voice samples and somewhat "gay" in the third (probably coming from you using feminine inflection patterns in combination with male resonance). Your pitch is pretty high in all recordings, I think the second recording is totally ok, pitchwise it would be in the female range and your resonance control makes it sound that way too. What worries me is that you are straining your voice just by doing resonance changes - for this you should look for voice therapy in any case to see what you may be doing wrong there. Voice #2 should be possible to use in a relaxed way without straining from talking long.
The trained voice sounds ok, although you seem to add a bit of a different speech pattern to it - it sounds like you have a slight lisp there - the pitch is really high, I think it is not necessary to use that high of a pitch if it is uncomfortable for you.
That said, of course voice and body need to match and if you are as you said short and petite, maybe voice #2 would be too low. In that case, Dr Kim would also not turn you away, because he recognizes the need to match these two things. The main reason he would turn away someone, or at least first recommend against surgery is that the voice is going to be too high for your stature, body size, etc - or that your vocal chords are already short, which is the case in some transwomen coming there for voice surgery but already have rather high voices. You cannot shorten the chords much more if they are already short - you need to leave enough room for breathing.

So I would do the following first: Send a recording of you reading the "rainbow passage" in all three voices to Dr Kim, tell him your body stats, maybe send him a full body photo alomg with it and ask if surgery would make sense. Then, optionally, you could get to a local ENT and let them do an endoscopic examination of your vocal folds, keep the video or photos they make and the full report and send that to Dr Kim. If they can, let them measure the length of the chords.
In any case, I would recommend booking a few (maybe just 5) sessions at a voice coach to deal with the issue of you straiing your voice even if you do not alter pitch. Maybe you picked up some bad habits like I did to change your voice and those can be a rock in the path after VFS when it comes to healing and finding your new , higher pitched voice.

Thank you so much for this!

Voice number 2 definitely doesnt strain me at all! I don't have to control or strain my larynx. I also find that maybe voice 2 sounds a bit more natural..  Ideally my pitch will be high enough post-op that I'll be able to talk as I do in recording #2 and end up with a natural female voice.

Voice coaching is something I am totally going for also, maybe after the surgery so I don't incur bad habits, as you said.

Edit: I notice the lisp too! I don't know what it is. When I speak in trained voice I have to "raise" my larynx and my tongue almost, and there ends up being less room in my mouth causing my lisp. In my male speaking voice I do not seem to have one.

Quote from: Cadence Jean on September 15, 2015, 08:45:52 AM
Oh, also, I've found that it's not so much that I achieved higher pitch than my trained voice, it's more like it's easier on me cuz I don't have to think about holding my larynx as much, and it sounds more natural now instead of strained. I think I've been slowly starting to hit a range higher than my trained voice as times now that I'm at the three month mark. So, perhaps I'll continue to see gains as I keep healing.

I will be perfectly happy with a result like yours! It really takes a lot of energy from me and adds a lot of stress to reach my trained voice. If my natural pitch ends up being raised enough I will probably revert to speaking like I do in recording 2 to attain a more natural speaking voice. Some people are saying I am straining my voice too much and sound too high-pitched in my trained voice.

Quote from: Roni on September 15, 2015, 03:23:06 PM
Voice number 2 definitely doesnt strain me at all! I don't have to control or strain my larynx. I also find that maybe voice 2 sounds a bit more natural..  Ideally my pitch will be high enough post-op that I'll be able to talk as I do in recording #2 and end up with a natural female voice.

Well, as I said, even voice #2 without surgery sounds female to me - its totally within normal and natural female range. Are you sure that you get clocked for the pitch of it? If so, then yes, surgery may make sense as you probably would be able to use voice#2 but sound more like voice #1 without the strain....

QuoteEdit: I notice the lisp too! I don't know what it is. When I speak in trained voice I have to "raise" my larynx and my tongue almost, and there ends up being less room in my mouth causing my lisp. In my male speaking voice I do not seem to have one.

Yes - its this sort of habits that can cause weird issues. One forces one set of muscles into some way to push up pitch or change resonance and other muscles go with it, although they have nothing to do with it - to learn how to use the proper muscles and relax the others is part of what voice therapy can do.

I am so jealous of your trained voice. Lol Maybe I should start talking with loads of prosody. Lol Listening to your relaxed voice, I'd say Dr. Haben will consider you as a candidate for surgery. If you're still concerned about that, you could send the link to your relaxed voice to his office and ask if you're a candidate, before flying all the way out.

I've booked my surgery date for October 14! :) This feels SO surreal right now!!

Just had another question. I might just call and ask their clinic in a bit, but if any of you ladies here knew the answer to this.. I have pretty big tonsils, like bigger than the average (according to many doctors). Should this affect my eligibility for surgery?

I your tonsils obstruct the passage way, you might what to mention them but if they can get the airway and toools past them, it shouldn't be a problem. The doctor might want to consider removing them if they are a problem. As for me, mine were removed about 8 or 9 years of age so I don't even think about them. It used to be a doctor's office procedure for adults so it's not a major  problem getting them out of the way one way or another.

Quote from: Roni on September 22, 2015, 11:53:03 AM
I've booked my surgery date for October 14! :) This feels SO surreal right now!!

Just had another question. I might just call and ask their clinic in a bit, but if any of you ladies here knew the answer to this.. I have pretty big tonsils, like bigger than the average (according to many doctors). Should this affect my eligibility for surgery?

Congrats! I bet you'll be quite pleased with your results. :)

Hey girl, congratulations!I listened to your recordings too, and I think when you're fully recovered, you'll be sounding absolutely effortless! Right now I'm thinking about booking with dr.H in November! I'll be following your progress here. :)

So I've been spending the last few days trying to control my coughs. Any tips? And what do I do about sneezes during the recovery period? Every time I sneeze, I cannot help but produce loud vocal sounds. (off topic, but I'm really hoping VFS will feminize my sneeze/coughs).

Also 8 more days til my surgery!!!

My tips: drink LOTS of water. At least 64 oz's per day. Don't eat foods or drink beverages that are acidic or spicy. And use the cough syrup! That's what it's there for. :) I didn't sneeze for at least a week after my surgery, oddly enough. I can't really suggest anything there... Stay away from scented lotions and stuff that may contribute to tickles in your nose?

Quote from: Roni on October 06, 2015, 07:50:05 AM
So I've been spending the last few days trying to control my coughs. Any tips? And what do I do about sneezes during the recovery period? Every time I sneeze, I cannot help but produce loud vocal sounds. (off topic, but I'm really hoping VFS will feminize my sneeze/coughs).

Also 8 more days til my surgery!!!

First off, for me at least, YES, coughs and sneezes (and other sounds, use your imagination, hehe) are feminine. They may be for you as well.

To control coughing I relied on cough suppressant (that delicious, powerful Synatura that Dr Kim gives out, lol) but also the open mouth and let air out technique.

For a sneeze I just forced the air out my nose forcefully without sneezing when I felt like sneezing. However over the years I've learned to control my sneezes in general. Also sneezing itself may not be bad if you keep your mouth shut and sneeze through your nose. Just try to keep it gentle.

Thank you ladies! I wish I didn't sneeze like a mountain lion lol... going to just have to hope I miraculously don't sneeze the 1 week post-op.

I blocked off my sneezes by closing my nose and firmly covering my mouth. Because my surgery what in the hight of dust storm season I knew sneezes would be a problem so I checked with Dr Haben before hand and received the OK to take Claritin to control my allergies. I took it as a preventive for a couple of weeks. You should ask Dr Haben about your favorite allergy medication as they tend to be personal. What works for one person may not work for another.

Also the surgery is pretty rugged and a mistake or two won't damage it. You want to avoid things like coughing fits where the surgery receives constant beating. I was super careful because I was working at the limits of what the surgery could provide and I wanted every bit of pitch increase it could provide. Dr Haben said I would get 60-80 Hz depending on the healing and I WANTED the last 20 Hz.

I am pretty sure you will do well. So far Dr Haben hasn't had a VFS fail.

I miraculously didnt sneeze for 2 weeks even though I always sneeze daily ususally. I am not sure why - maybe the medication they gave me helped, maybe it was that I was almost constantly wearing a dust mask when I was outside and kept the air in the hotel room humid with wet towels hanging around everywhere and then also drinking lots of water may have helped with the coughing and sneezing.

I slept at an elevated level with three pillows and it has helped me alot with not coughing at night time. :) During the day, it was hard for me to control some coughs even with the cough suppressant because I had a lot of phlegm.

Quote from: jollyjoy on October 07, 2015, 09:25:21 PM
I slept at an elevated level with three pillows and it has helped me alot with not coughing at night time. :) During the day, it was hard for me to control some coughs even with the cough suppressant because I had a lot of phlegm.

In bed I tend to be a side sleeper and that helps keep the buildup from happening. I didn't get much sleep the entire time I was on the trip so when I came home I went to bed laying on my left side and woke up about 7 hours latter in the same position and not a cough or sneeze.

Ok well I go in for surgery in six hours. Needless to say I am excited but nervous as hell lol.

Also I can't seem to access Susan's under the wifi at the hotel in Rochester.. Says my IP has been permanently banned for trolling. Since this is the hotel that comes pre-packaged with Dr Haben's  voice surgery deal, whoever got banned for trolling probably got VFS with Dr Haben.  :D

Hahahahaha It wasn't me, lol.  Best wishes on your surgery!

Quote from: Cadence Jean on October 14, 2015, 07:55:11 AM
Hahahahaha It wasn't me, lol.  Best wishes on your surgery!

Thanks girl! It's just a tad bit annoying having to use my phone to access the forums lol since I can't on my iPad. :P

Quote from: Roni on October 14, 2015, 07:53:06 AM
Ok well I go in for surgery in six hours. Needless to say I am excited but nervous as hell lol.

Also I can't seem to access Susan's under the wifi at the hotel in Rochester.. Says my IP has been permanently banned for trolling. Since this is the hotel that comes pre-packaged with Dr Haben's  voice surgery deal, whoever got banned for trolling probably got VFS with Dr Haben.  :D

Noted and and I will pass it up the chain of command to see if it can be unlocked if not for you but for the next person.

Working on the IP issue but if you can tell us the text on the screen and/or IP address it would be helpful if the current idea fails to work out. On WiFi Google what is my IP address and that should tell you.
Good luck with your surgery and I to was a ball of nerves before surgery. I know there is nothing I can say to help the nerves but you are in good hands and it will all be over before you know it.

Quote from: Dena on October 14, 2015, 09:00:10 AM
Working on the IP issue but if you can tell us the text on the screen and/or IP address it would be helpful if the current idea fails to work out. On WiFi Google what is my IP address and that should tell you.
Good luck with your surgery and I to was a ball of nerves before surgery. I know there is nothing I can say to help the nerves but you are in good hands and it will all be over before you know it.

I did exactly that and it says the IP for the hotel is xxxxxxxxxxx




Admin edit, removed ip. Devlyn

That IP address is now unblocked but if you should have trouble in the hospital, let us know because the ban could have proceeded you there as well. I will check this again about 3 PM your time to make sure everything is working

Thank you! I can now access the forums on my ipad/laptop. I'll be sure to let you know if I face problems at the hospital. :)

All the best, Roni! I'm excited for you. :)

Roni:
Sending my best wishes for a rapid recovery. I am certain you will find your results better than you may have hoped for. It may be difficult, but try to get lot's of rest while you have the down time.

Be safe and again best wishes
Hug's
Elaine

Thanks for all the kind wishes everyone (Cadence, Dena, Elaine, runaway)!

Well I coughed right after waking up and here I am thinking the worst and worrying I have already done some sort of damage. It was a short, quick, fairly loud cough.   :-\

I've lost the ability to taste and feel on one side of my tongue and it's been well over 12 hours now. Not quite sure what this means exactly or if it's a weird long-lasting effect from the anesthesia.

The tongue stuff is due to pressure being placed on it from instruments. It will come back eventually, like a few hours to a few days. The numbness will totally go away in a few weeks.

Btw congrats!

Don't worry about the cough! Unless you experienced bleeding and substantial pain, it's probably 100% fine. :) Almost everyone who's undergone a glottoplasty has coughed during voice rest, yours truly included. :D

The numbness and taste issues subsided for me in a few days, so don't worry. During the first week post-op, I became oversensitive to mint, so my spiro pills tasted like breath mints!

Remember to drink lots of water, and ask for popsicles if you're still in the hospital.

Last but not least, congratulations!!! ;)

Quote from: iKate on October 15, 2015, 05:11:01 AM
The tongue stuff is due to pressure being placed on it from instruments. It will come back eventually, like a few hours to a few days. The numbness will totally go away in a few weeks.

Btw congrats!

All righty that's good to know, thank you! After battling a gnarly phlegm buildup for thirty minutes I ended up coughing a second time. My anxieties are getting the best of me at this point.. I have my checkup with Dr Haben in about an hour and will find out if any sort of damage has occurred..

Quote from: runaway on October 15, 2015, 06:25:00 AM
Don't worry about the cough! Unless you experienced bleeding and substantial pain, it's probably 100% fine. :) Almost everyone who's undergone a glottoplasty has coughed during voice rest, yours truly included. :D

The numbness and taste issues subsided for me in a few days, so don't worry. During the first week post-op, I became oversensitive to mint, so my spiro pills tasted like breath mints!

Remember to drink lots of water, and ask for popsicles if you're still in the hospital.

Last but not least, congratulations!!! ;)

Problem is I do have a sharp-ish pain in my throat similar to a mild sore throat but am not sure if that is the result of coughing or just a result from the procedure in general.

Quote from: Roni on October 15, 2015, 06:28:20 AM
Problem is I do have a sharp-ish pain in my throat similar to a mild sore throat but am not sure if that is the result of coughing or just a result from the procedure in general.

That's completely normal! You did have your vocal folds lasered and sutured after all. :)

Even now, my throat still feels slightly sore when I overuse my voice or cough/clear my throat too much. I think surgeons are generally over-cautious when setting out aftercare guidelines, to safeguard against unintended accidents and patients who bend the rules.

Dr. Haben told me not worry about what I can't control, when I asked him about coughing and all that. Take it easy, be as careful as possible, but don't worry.

If you can, look for Strepsils Extra (Black Cherry). Those are antiseptic and have a mild analgesic effect, which will soothe the discomfort and prevent infection on your flight back home. Buy the Black Cherry ONLY; the other flavours don't have the antiseptic and analgesic effects.

If you can, pick up travel-sized mouthwash, which also helps soothe and disinfect your mouth and throat.

Werther's Original caramel candy also helped lubricate and soothe my throat when the taste of Listerine and Strepsils got to be too much.

Have a warm or ice-cold beverage on hand, which helps relieve the urge to cough or clear your throat.

I hope this helps! I wish you a speedy and uneventful recovery. :)

Runaway, that was very helpful for me. Thank you so much! Showed my mom your post and she just so happened to have some antiseptic candy that helps suppresses colds and coughs!  :laugh:

Quote from: runaway on October 15, 2015, 06:25:00 AM
Don't worry about the cough! Unless you experienced bleeding and substantial pain, it's probably 100% fine. :) Almost everyone who's undergone a glottoplasty has coughed during voice rest, yours truly included. :D

The numbness and taste issues subsided for me in a few days, so don't worry. During the first week post-op, I became oversensitive to mint, so my spiro pills tasted like breath mints!

Remember to drink lots of water, and ask for popsicles if you're still in the hospital.

Last but not least, congratulations!!! ;)

I don't remember coughing (I went to dr Kim) and I did my darnedest not to cough in the first month. I coughed like 5 times total during that month two of which were in the first 7 days.

I would say be careful with coughing because I suspect it could affect the healing and scar quality.

Why risk it? Don't cough. I took the cough suppressant religiously. I did my best not to cough. And I believe that has paid dividends as my result is very good.

Quote from: iKate on October 15, 2015, 08:19:23 AM
I don't remember coughing (I went to dr Kim) and I did my darnedest not to cough in the first month. I coughed like 5 times total during that month two of which were in the first 7 days.

I would say be careful with coughing because I suspect it could affect the healing and scar quality.

Why risk it? Don't cough. I took the cough suppressant religiously. I did my best not to cough. And I believe that has paid dividends as my result is very good.

What about the coughs I can't control? Right now I'm definitely trying my hardest not to cough, but some do manage to give in without me being able to control them. I'm fighting the cough battle religiously too, taking sips of water every few minutes and currently taking antiseptic candy.

Also just got back from Dr Haben's checkup and everything seems fine! What a huge relief.  :D

Congratulations on the surgery. I didn't have a problem with coughing but I kept cold water with me all the time with a straw when possible. I would take a small sip, warm it in my mouth for a few seconds then swallow it slowly. I still have the cough medicine that Dr Haben gave me and used only one round of it for the trip home just in case. If you need the cough medicine TAKE IT. I was very careful to breath through my nose to keep the air moist around the surgical area. Dry air will make you want to cough. Eat sitting straight up and laying on your side will also help.If you feel the need to cough, lean forward and exhale fast with your cords open.  That will help clear off any accumulation you might have. There will be mistakes but try to keep them as few as possible.

Really long night last night battling a moderator problem and I am still not fully awake. Your sense of taste. Taste buds have about a two month growth cycle. If you damage them with hot sauce, they will take that long to regenerate but they WILL return to normal. I had funny metallic taste up until a short time ago due to Dr Haben really working over the inside of my mouth. If your sense of taste is mess up, given time it will clear up. At 3 months I still have a bit of soreness but I know I still have swelling. Most people will recover far faster than I did. Again the cough medicine is powerful stuff and will help block the pain. Time to get ready for work.

Congrats on having the surgery! That first night I coughed about five times I think. Don't worry too much about what you can't control. What helped me tremendously with reducing coughing and phlegm at night was sleeping elevated on 2-3 pillows.

Quote from: Roni on October 15, 2015, 08:53:04 AM
What about the coughs I can't control? Right now I'm definitely trying my hardest not to cough, but some do manage to give in without me being able to control them. I'm fighting the cough battle religiously too, taking sips of water every few minutes and currently taking antiseptic candy.

Also just got back from Dr Haben's checkup and everything seems fine! What a huge relief.  :D

Do your best not to cough at all.

If you feel like coughing open your mouth wide and let the air escape.

I can't say for sure that small coughs would cause adverse effects but it's your voice and your one shot at a good voice, so don't risk it!

It's hard but it's doable.

Quote from: jollyjoy on October 15, 2015, 09:49:52 AM
Congrats on having the surgery! That first night I coughed about five times I think. Don't worry too much about what you can't control. What helped me tremendously with reducing coughing and phlegm at night was sleeping elevated on 2-3 pillows.

Thanks Jollyjoy! How has your recover/voice been?

Quote from: iKate on October 15, 2015, 10:32:50 AM
Do your best not to cough at all.

If you feel like coughing open your mouth wide and let the air escape.

I can't say for sure that small coughs would cause adverse effects but it's your voice and your one shot at a good voice, so don't risk it!

It's hard but it's doable.

This is good advise and it does help. My throat was deluged with mucous coating my throat and VC's after surgery and the urge to cough came and went. I accidentally discovered this technique to help decrease stress by kind of "huffing", if that makes any sense, rather than coughing to avoid the jarring vibrations from a cough.

Best wishes for a super quick recovery.
Elaine

Quote from: Elaine S on October 16, 2015, 12:48:21 AM
This is good advise and it does help. My throat was deluged with mucous coating my throat and VC's after surgery and the urge to cough came and went. I accidentally discovered this technique to help decrease stress by kind of "huffing", if that makes any sense, rather than coughing to avoid the jarring vibrations from a cough.

Best wishes for a super quick recovery.
Elaine

Yes, this is exactly what I did.

Is it possible to break apart the suture without feeling any pain? I'm trying my best but seem to be coughing once every six hours or so.. As long as there's no sharp pain, the suture should still be intact, correct?

I think I'm just going to stop worrying lol... Literally nothing I can do. I manag to hold my coughs pretty well but the phlegm builds up over the course of a few hours and no amount of opening my mouth wide and "huffing" seems to prevent the buildup. About to hop on my flight back to San Diego. Talk to you ladies soon!

I would expect some pain, maybe a little blood on a kleenex, and a taste of blood in your mouth. I had that when I sneezed out some funky scar tissue stuff. I would expect the same if the stitch/web ripped.

The sutures are pretty rugged but a coughing fit is something to be avoided. I have to admit I talked by accident after I got home but I stopped pretty quickly. Because I wanted all the pitch I could get, I tried very hard not to put any stress on the healing wounds. Dr Haven said I would get between 60 hand 80 Hz improvement and I wanted more than 80 if possible. My sweet spot continues to rise and I may exceed Dr Haben's estimate if this keeps up.

Also when you huff, it's very important to lean forward. The combination of gravity and the air movement works much better.

It's not just the suture being undone but I would worry about scar quality and tightening. It's not just the size of the folds but I believe how taut they are can have some effect.

But if you have to cough, nothing you can do about it. I had plenty of  phlegm but no cough. I didn't wait until I had to cough to take cough suppressant. I took it continuously over the 7 days.

Quote from: Roni on October 15, 2015, 10:12:22 PM
Thanks Jollyjoy! How has your recover/voice been?

I'm at the three weeks mark, the recovery has been quite slow, still sounds like I have the surgical laryngitis. I'll post a voice sample at the six weeks mark.

Yes, I believe that maintaining the integrity of the suture is not all. The suture itself is rather stable, especially after 2 weeks. But I also believe that damage can be done anyways. I am rather sure that my coughing fit during wakeup did something that reduced the increase in pitch that would otherwise have been possible, but it was almost beyond my control - the only thing I could have done would have been to prevent it by cancelling the surgery at that point as I just had recovered from a cold/flu and probably that was just too early.
So I would still be careful even if the suture itself will not be undone by coughing or speaking, there might be other little damage that can occur

Quote from: jollyjoy on October 16, 2015, 11:10:12 AM
I'm at the three weeks mark, the recovery has been quite slow, still sounds like I have the surgical laryngitis. I'll post a voice sample at the six weeks mark.

Have you talked to Dr Haben about it? I'm a bit scared myself that I might end up with a ridiculously high pitched "Mickey mouse" sounding voice as he stitched up 45% of my vocal chords despite me starting off at a relatively high pitch pre-op. Oh well, he is the doctor and probably knows best.

Also thanks for all the input everyone!

No I haven't. I'm not too concerned at this point since it's still pretty early in the recovery process and everyone heals differently, I guess I'm on the slower spectrum. I had the CTA as well so that will take a bit longer to heal than just the glottoplasty alone. If at around 6 weeks, there's no signs of improvement, then I'd be concerned. He also told me he did 45%, sounded like a lot to me at first but  I trust he knows best.

Quote from: Roni on October 16, 2015, 03:15:32 PM
Have you talked to Dr Haben about it? I'm a bit scared myself that I might end up with a ridiculously high pitched "Mickey mouse" sounding voice as he stitched up 45% of my vocal chords despite me starting off at a relatively high pitch pre-op. Oh well, he is the doctor and probably knows best.

Quote from: jollyjoy on October 16, 2015, 04:15:13 PM
No I haven't. I'm not too concerned at this point since it's still pretty early in the recovery process and everyone heals differently, I guess I'm on the slower spectrum. I had the CTA as well so that will take a bit longer to heal than just the glottoplasty alone. If at around 6 weeks, there's no signs of improvement, then I'd be concerned. He also told me he did 45%, sounded like a lot to me at first but  I trust he knows best.

Well keep us all updated girl! :) I'm just as excited to hear your voice as I am about hearing mine lol.

Quote from: jollyjoy on October 16, 2015, 04:15:13 PM
No I haven't. I'm not too concerned at this point since it's still pretty early in the recovery process and everyone heals differently, I guess I'm on the slower spectrum. I had the CTA as well so that will take a bit longer to heal than just the glottoplasty alone. If at around 6 weeks, there's no signs of improvement, then I'd be concerned. He also told me he did 45%, sounded like a lot to me at first but  I trust he knows best.

Hey Joy, FWIW my voice fluctuates a lot, depending how much I've (over)used it. My throat has been sore, and my voice hoarse the past few days cos I had to talk loudly in crowded places.

I've also noticed that my voice quality has improved as the swelling of the thyroid cartilage went down. I had no idea how swollen it was the first week, until it started going down.

Roni, my post-op photo of my vocal folds looked about 45% sutured off too, so it's probably normal. Dr. Haben mentioned that he doesn't like suturing off too much because it makes the voice weird, so I'm sure he wouldn't have done anything he considers excessive.

You'll both be ok! I was full of nerves and paranoia the first 2-3 weeks post-op, wondering if I'd just made the biggest mistake of my life, but that subsided as it became apparent my voice was passable.

Quote from: Roni on October 16, 2015, 03:15:32 PM
Have you talked to Dr Haben about it? I'm a bit scared myself that I might end up with a ridiculously high pitched "Mickey mouse" sounding voice as he stitched up 45% of my vocal chords despite me starting off at a relatively high pitch pre-op. Oh well, he is the doctor and probably knows best.

If I remember correctly your voice was around 150-160 Hz. About the most the surgery would give you would be 80 Hz with that much suturing so my guess is your voice will end up in the 230 - 250 Hz range which is well below Mickey Mouse. C4 - middle C or about 261 Hz is the "Average female voice" so I think you will end up with a very nice feminine voice. It should sound something like Ikate's voice in pitch.  :)

Quote from: Dena on October 16, 2015, 10:21:24 PM
If I remember correctly your voice was around 150-160 Hz. About the most the surgery would give you would be 80 Hz with that much suturing so my guess is your voice will end up in the 230 - 250 Hz range which is well below Mickey Mouse. C4 - middle C or about 261 Hz is the "Average female voice" so I think you will end up with a very nice feminine voice. It should sound something like Ikate's voice in pitch.  :)

Thanks for the reassurance Dena. :) Yes, that is about where my natural pitch lies according to Dr Haben as well.  I'll be happy if I end up sounding like any of the ladies on here! Going to play the waiting game now.. since I'm off work the next month I will probably do at least two weeks of strict voice rest even though Dr Haben only requires one.

Quote from: anjaq on October 16, 2015, 12:47:11 PM
Yes, I believe that maintaining the integrity of the suture is not all. The suture itself is rather stable, especially after 2 weeks. But I also believe that damage can be done anyways. I am rather sure that my coughing fit during wakeup did something that reduced the increase in pitch that would otherwise have been possible, but it was almost beyond my control - the only thing I could have done would have been to prevent it by cancelling the surgery at that point as I just had recovered from a cold/flu and probably that was just too early.
So I would still be careful even if the suture itself will not be undone by coughing or speaking, there might be other little damage that can occur

I'm in the same boat in that I have a really congested chest at the moment. Controlling my coughs has proven difficult as a result. If I had known how difficult this would be I would have chosen to do VFS another time. Nothing I can do now though. I guess for any women looking to do VFS in the future, make sure your chest and sinus canals are free of congestion before taking on the procedure.

Quote from: Dena on October 16, 2015, 10:21:24 PM
If I remember correctly your voice was around 150-160 Hz. About the most the surgery would give you would be 80 Hz with that much suturing so my guess is your voice will end up in the 230 - 250 Hz range which is well below Mickey Mouse. C4 - middle C or about 261 Hz is the "Average female voice" so I think you will end up with a very nice feminine voice.

Well - the 80 Hz increase seems to be more an average value. With Dr Kim it is said to be 75 Hz. For some the increase is less, for some it is more. I think the range is that it goes from something like no increase in the worst case (at least according to the patients reports) to up to 150 Hz pitch increase.
I have usually read that 220 Hz (A) is the average female pitch (https://sites.google.com/site/shminspeech/shm-in-speech), so 260 Hz (C) is a bit above average, but it still is well within the normal range and depending on the local cultural variations, the average may vary anyways - German women have lower average pitch than US women who have lower voices than Korean or Japanese women.

Thanks for sharing! I was also quite paranoid during the initial weeks, now I've been much more at ease. :) And I definitely do hear some improvement week by week, so now I'm just excited for the weeks to go by.

Quote from: runaway on October 16, 2015, 10:08:33 PM
Hey Joy, FWIW my voice fluctuates a lot, depending how much I've (over)used it. My throat has been sore, and my voice hoarse the past few days cos I had to talk loudly in crowded places.

I've also noticed that my voice quality has improved as the swelling of the thyroid cartilage went down. I had no idea how swollen it was the first week, until it started going down.

Roni, my post-op photo of my vocal folds looked about 45% sutured off too, so it's probably normal. Dr. Haben mentioned that he doesn't like suturing off too much because it makes the voice weird, so I'm sure he wouldn't have done anything he considers excessive.

You'll both be ok! I was full of nerves and paranoia the first 2-3 weeks post-op, wondering if I'd just made the biggest mistake of my life, but that subsided as it became apparent my voice was passable.

So I'm currently drowning in phelgm, literally everytime I swallow saliva I feel mucus/phlegm at the back of my throat. I'm assuming this is the body's natural reaction to fighting the wounds/possible infection at the surgical site? Just want to make sure I'm not getting a cold or flu lol. I am currently taking cough medicine and over-the-counter Mucinex.

I don't think you have a cold, I also had a lot of mucus for the first 7-10 days, which made me want to cough. I didn't take anything over the counter though, just the four Dr. Haben prescribed.

Quote from: Roni on October 18, 2015, 11:40:29 AM
So I'm currently drowning in phelgm, literally everytime I swallow saliva I feel mucus/phlegm at the back of my throat. I'm assuming this is the body's natural reaction to fighting the wounds/possible infection at the surgical site? Just want to make sure I'm not getting a cold or flu lol. I am currently taking cough medicine and over-the-counter Mucinex.

If your ran out of cough medicine from Dr Haben and you think you have a bug, email Dr Haben with the name/number for your pharmacist and he may provide another round of the cough medicine. The first month it's very important to take it easy on the surgery. I avoided coughing for a couple of months after surgery just to ensure the best healing.

Quote from: jollyjoy on October 18, 2015, 11:51:30 AM
I don't think you have a cold, I also had a lot of mucus for the first 7-10 days, which made me want to cough. I didn't take anything over the counter though, just the four Dr. Haben prescribed.

It was Dr. Haben who recommended the Mucinex but I am not quite sure if the drug is doing more good or bad. It lists at the back of the package that the drug aims to "produce more effective coughs," so I wonder if I am in fact coughing more as a result of the medicine.

Quote from: Dena on October 18, 2015, 12:10:46 PM
If your ran out of cough medicine from Dr Haben and you think you have a bug, email Dr Haben with the name/number for your pharmacist and he may provide another round of the cough medicine. The first month it's very important to take it easy on the surgery. I avoided coughing for a couple of months after surgery just to ensure the best healing.

I did just that. Thank you! At this point all I care about is preventing the consistent coughing so as to not rupture the surgical site. I seem to be coughing 10 times a day right now. I try and hold the coughs but they seem to be a reflex sort of action my body is producing, and there is nothing I can do about it. I'm kind of upset because I may not get as much of a pitch increase as I would like due to the coughing. But as I stated, all I care about at this point is preventing ripping of the vocal folds.

Weird question...

So I came upon the realization that I am, in fact, a mouth breather. And the reason I've been coughing more so lately is because I switched to breathing through my nose, upon suggestion from someone here that breathing through the mouth produces drier air which could affect the vocal chords. Unfortunately I'm just not well-tuned to nose-breathing and I think my lungs are having a harder time clearing irritants, getting more congested as a result.

My question: should I switch back to mouth breathing to avoid further coughs and face the drier air, or should I stick with breathing through my nose at the expense of (currently) coughing about once an hour? Just don't know whether dry air or coughing is more harmful to my recovery in the long run.

I walk 3 miles every night to get in better shape and lose a few pounds I accumulated and I ask Dr Haben about that, he said walking as ok as long as I didn't breath through my mouth. I stopped walking after surgery just to make sure I didn't get coughing from dry air issues (I live in Arizona with really dry air). I also may have an advantage over you in that my nose had partial blockages in the passages and when the surgeon worked on my nose, he opened up the passages. I can now walk at a good clip and still breath through my nose. If at all possible you should breath through your nose and avoid doing things where you need your mouth for more air. I am back to walking but carry a bottle of water should things dry out and I need to stop a cough.
If you have allergies, consider taking something for it. I did for about 3 weeks because when I had my surgery it was the middle of dust storm season and stuff really gets stirred up for days when we get a dust storm.

I didn't pay attention to my breathing, but I believe I breathed through the nose during the day and through the mouth during night. I coughed every single day for the first 7-9 days I think, it was something I just was not able to control even though I tried really hard. Luckily, I didn't experience any sharp pain and nothing has ripped as far as I know.

All right ladies.. Thank you! Nose breathing it is for me then. I've been breathing through my mouth the past day (including deep heavy breaths to avert oncoming coughs), and I hope I didn't do significant damage to my surgical area. :\

Lol why can't recovery just be over and done with?! I seem to be a huge ball of anxiety. I'm just going to go ahead and take solace in the fact that Jolly has been breathing through her mouth during sleep and is okay so far.

OH! If dry air is an issue, perhaps getting a humidifier in your room might be of some use. Just thinking any sort of advantage is worth the cost.

Audree

Quote from: audreelyn on October 22, 2015, 01:31:11 AM
OH! If dry air is an issue, perhaps getting a humidifier in your room might be of some use. Just thinking any sort of advantage is worth the cost.

Audree

Audree, that is actually a fantastic idea. The thought of a humidifier completely slipped my mind. Thank you! I am willing to do whatever it takes to alleviate my coughs. The boyfriend and I are heading out to grab a humidifier first thing in the morning.

It's been 8 days post op and I figured uttering a word or two to test out my voice wouldn't do significant damage to my chords (I am still planning on doing a full month of voice rest.)

I sound extremely hoarse BUT my natural voice is definitely higher now and I'm not even modifying my pitch!!! This is such a relief for me as I feared I would be part of the sizable group of women who experienced no increase at all. I'm ecstatic to say the least! :)

Now hopefully these stitches stay on for the remainder of the healing period and I will be one happy gal.  :D

Quote from: Roni on October 22, 2015, 11:38:59 AM
It's been 8 days post op and I figured uttering a word or two to test out my voice wouldn't do significant damage to my chords (I am still planning on doing a full month of voice rest.)

I sound extremely hoarse BUT my natural voice is definitely higher now and I'm not even modifying my pitch!!! This is such a relief for me as I feared I would be part of the sizable group of women who experienced no increase at all. I'm ecstatic to say the least! :)

Now hopefully these stitches stay on for the remainder of the healing period and I will be one happy gal.  :D

Yes, it should sound higher!  The first time I heard my voice the day I got back to NJ from Seoul I sounded like Randi Rhodes.

Quote from: Roni on October 22, 2015, 11:38:59 AM
It's been 8 days post op and I figured uttering a word or two to test out my voice wouldn't do significant damage to my chords (I am still planning on doing a full month of voice rest.)

I sound extremely hoarse BUT my natural voice is definitely higher now and I'm not even modifying my pitch!!! This is such a relief for me as I feared I would be part of the sizable group of women who experienced no increase at all. I'm ecstatic to say the least! :)

Now hopefully these stitches stay on for the remainder of the healing period and I will be one happy gal.  :D

Roni:
Glad you are enjoying the benefits of the surgery. The urge to talk and resume communication is very strong, but do try and hold out as long as you can to help get the results you desire.

Be safe and try to avoid using your voice
Elaine

Quote from: iKate on October 22, 2015, 12:07:59 PM
Yes, it should sound higher!  The first time I heard my voice the day I got back to NJ from Seoul I sounded like Randi Rhodes.

Knowing there is a possibility my voice is only going to sound higher makes me feel on top of the world! Yes, it is crazy how hoarse I sound, but I am glad my boomy male voice is gone.

Quote from: Elaine S on October 22, 2015, 12:21:03 PM
Roni:
Glad you are enjoying the benefits of the surgery. The urge to talk and resume communication is very strong, but do try and hold out as long as you can to help get the results you desire.

Be safe and try to avoid using your voice
Elaine

Thanks Elaine! Yep, especially with unfortunate recent events having unfolded surrounding other girls' surgeries, believe you me I will do at least a full month of rest!

Roni:

You are most welcome. I, for one believe it is as much up to us for our recoveries. While I would definitely prefer not having to deal with VFS stuff again, it is what it is. I liked what I had and will get it back. Just takes more work. Yet another hurdle, but the alternative, to me is unacceptable, so I just have to move forward.

Some might want to consider the amount of people needing further refinements in other lines of surgery like FFS, BA, and even electrolysis, etc. Unfortunately less than satisfactory results can happen but we the patients bear responsibility doing all we can to ensure the best possible outcome.

Remember too, a very few years back there was NO help via surgical intervention for us with less than satisfactory voices. Several decades prior to that and their wasn't really any help at all for ANYTHING. Many can and have trained their voices without surgery with great results and conversely many, likely more cannot get as passable a result as can be had through VFS.

How many would have jumped at the first opportunity to try and have a better quality of life through something not completely perfect. Life for us is a continuous series of tradeoffs in hopes of making things be as they should have been. Some are more "blessed" than others having to deal with less issues, but none the less, we all try to move forward trying to be (please excuse one of my most favorite IG's song titles here) "Closer to Fine".

Be safe, be happy and love every minute of every day. We are only young twice, so make the most of what you can, while you can, because you can. Wishing my best to all...
Elaine

P.S. - Roni: someday, when I grow up and learn to type accurately, I won't have to go back and fix awful typo's, a single dropped letter can completely change so much, I'm so very sorry I suck so bad at typing.

I am exactly two weeks post-op now. I made another personal recording today and I sound a LOT less hoarse than I did a week before! It has only been two weeks so I know there is a possibility of further pitch increase. As it stands, it seems my natural speaking voice has probably gone up only 30-40 Hz, which would put me at 190-200 hz. Not as much of an increase as I would like, but I'll take it for now I guess. :)

My sister and boyfriend both commented that I just sound like I have a "smoker chick" voice now, or a voice like Lindsay Lohan's and Emma Stone's.

It seems a lot easier to control my chest resonance now for some reason as well. My voice has lost most of its "boominess."

I'll post an official before and after on this forum as soon as I hit the one month mark of voice rest!

Relax and stop stressing. The voice will come up as it recovers. The swelling increases the mass of the cords slowing the rate they vibrated. As the swelling goes away the pitch will increases.

Quote from: Dena on October 28, 2015, 04:31:29 PM
Relax and stop stressing. The voice will come up as it recovers. The swelling increases the mass of the cords slowing the rate they vibrated. As the swelling goes away the pitch will increases.

I will! I'm pretty content with how it sounds right now anyway. Definitely looking forward to how it will sound in a few more weeks!

Oh just incase there was any misunderstanding with my previous post, I definitely consider a "smoker chick" voice a one-step-up from my previous natural voice! I'll take smoker chick over male voice any day lol.

"Smoker chick" is what I had 7 days post op. It will get better. Don't stress and don't over use it.

Quote from: iKate on October 28, 2015, 09:13:24 PM
"Smoker chick" is what I had 7 days post op. It will get better. Don't stress and don't over use it.

Glad to hear iKate! :) And to think I was going to start talking again and return to work at the 2-3 week mark. Nope! A few more weeks of voice rest for me, haha.

Quote from: Roni on October 28, 2015, 10:49:43 PM
Glad to hear iKate! :) And to think I was going to start talking again and return to work at the 2-3 week mark. Nope! A few more weeks of voice rest for me, haha.

Roni: Smart idea and lead you are able to arrange the extra time off. it will only help your result.

Be safe
Elaine

That's good news! My hoarseness is slowly getting better too. :)

Quote from: Roni on October 28, 2015, 10:49:43 PM
Glad to hear iKate! :) And to think I was going to start talking again and return to work at the 2-3 week mark. Nope! A few more weeks of voice rest for me, haha.

HA!!!

My HR department asked how long I would not be able to talk for so they could accommodate me. I told them about a month. No way was I talking after a week or two weeks. Even after a month it was kind of hard. I had to push my voice and volume was limited. It felt uncomfortable talking for a few weeks, until about month 2 actually.

You mentioned the kind of work you do - and you talk all day - I honestly wish you all the luck in the world. :)

Quote from: jollyjoy on October 30, 2015, 09:31:01 AM
That's good news! My hoarseness is slowly getting better too. :)

Whoop! Told you we were recovery sisters lol. :)

Quote from: iKate on October 30, 2015, 09:49:46 AM
HA!!!

My HR department asked how long I would not be able to talk for so they could accommodate me. I told them about a month. No way was I talking after a week or two weeks. Even after a month it was kind of hard. I had to push my voice and volume was limited. It felt uncomfortable talking for a few weeks, until about month 2 actually.

You mentioned the kind of work you do - and you talk all day - I honestly wish you all the luck in the world. :)

Thank you! Yes we are the second or third busiest fast food place in the whole of San Diego. I'm hoping when I come back I should be okay. I'll be at the 7 week mark post op when I return.

I already emailed Dr Haben about this and he hasn't responded yet, so I am looking for second opinions here.

How soon am I able to drink alcohol? It's halloween and there are a bunch of parties lined up. It doesn't say anything about alcohol on Dr Haben's VFS website---just smoking. And I am not talking about crazy amounts of alcohol. Just enough shots to get buzzed.

Quote from: Roni on October 31, 2015, 01:37:51 PM
I already emailed Dr Haben about this and he hasn't responded yet, so I am looking for second opinions here.

How soon am I able to drink alcohol? It's halloween and there are a bunch of parties lined up. It doesn't say anything about alcohol on Dr Haben's VFS website---just smoking. And I am not talking about crazy amounts of alcohol. Just enough shots to get buzzed.

Dr Kim says 2-3 months. It was a long 3 months, lol. I missed Mike's, Smirnoff and my red wine soooo bad.

But there are some who said they drank wine with dinner even while in the first 7 days of recovery and they came out great.

So I don't know what to say other than "ask him." But if you want to be super cautious,  2-3 months.

I don't have a clue because I haven't had a drink in 64 years  ;D but I would think until the sutures dissolve there might still be some raw areas exposed that could make you regret the drink. You would be better off with beer or maybe wine as the distilled beverage could be like applying alcohol to an open wound.

Honestly, I would wait and skip this years Halloween drinking binge ;) . its not worth taking any risks. If you later find your voice is not clean, or not high enough in pitch or if a suture opens at some point, you will always think that maybe its your fault because you had those drinks ...

Dr Kim says 3-4 months no alcohol, some drank occasionally some alcohol, but I don#t know if that included drinking a lot. I guess a lass of wine or beer or even a cocktail does not hurt, but having a bottle of wine or a couple of cocktails may be too much. Also I am not sure how Dr Habens sutures take the alcohol. Dr Kim uses permanent sutures, so they may be less affected by such things. For me, alcohol often also causes some reflux and that is clearly bad for the voice and bad for non-permanent surgical thread. Any acid is - which is probably why sour drinks and fruit juices are also not suggested.

Awww dang! Well, I guess Halloween just won't be as fun for me this year. Thank you for the replies everyone!

Alcohol also dehydrates you. Dehydration is a huge enemy of this kind of surgery.

Just got a response from Dr. Haben. He says one month minimum of no alcohol, 6 weeks at least would be ideal. What a bummer lol.

Quote from: Roni on October 31, 2015, 04:52:28 PM
Just got a response from Dr. Haben. He says one month minimum of no alcohol, 6 weeks at least would be ideal. What a bummer lol.

Well on the bright side, when your voice is all healed up you can get as drunk as you want and not get clocked by your voice. :)

Quote from: Roni on October 31, 2015, 04:52:28 PM
Just got a response from Dr. Haben. He says one month minimum of no alcohol, 6 weeks at least would be ideal. What a bummer lol.

I did stop in at a Halloween party tonight, but I brought my own huge water bottle so I would be less tempted to drink and I only stayed for an hour since I could really only communicate by text.  Was a bit of a bummer since this is my favorite holiday, but I'll be thanking myself in a few months when I have an awesome new voice :)

Quote from: kwala on November 01, 2015, 01:03:08 AM
I did stop in at a Halloween party tonight, but I brought my own huge water bottle so I would be less tempted to drink and I only stayed for an hour since I could really only communicate by text.  Was a bit of a bummer since this is my favorite holiday, but I'll be thanking myself in a few months when I have an awesome new voice :)

I ended up not doing anything Halloween night. I instead went grocery shopping at a 24-hour Walmart. Upon returning to my car with all my grocery bags, I realized I must have left my lights on or something as my car battery would not start. I've been good about resting my voice, but had to use my voice this time to ask for a jumpstart from people. It seems my voice and I completely passed to the two men who helped me, which I am extremely happy about! They asked if I had already celebrated Halloween and said "you probably had a sexy cat costume and everything, huh?" Haha it was flattering.

Quote from: Roni on November 01, 2015, 12:52:29 PM
I ended up not doing anything Halloween night. I instead went grocery shopping at a 24-hour Walmart. Upon returning to my car with all my grocery bags, I realized I must have left my lights on or something as my car battery would not start. I've been good about resting my voice, but had to use my voice this time to ask for a jumpstart from people. It seems my voice and I completely passed to the two men who helped me, which I am extremely happy about! They asked if I had already celebrated Halloween and said "you probably had a sexy cat costume and everything, huh?" Haha it was flattering.

Cute story!  We'll have to party twice as hard next year to make up for a somewhat subdued Halloween this year :)

Quote from: kwala on November 01, 2015, 06:16:38 PM
Cute story!  We'll have to party twice as hard next year to make up for a somewhat subdued Halloween this year :)

Girl I'm gonna party THREE times as hard this New Years just because I didn't get to on Halloween haha!

Quote from: Roni on November 02, 2015, 12:46:05 PM
Girl I'm gonna party THREE times as hard this New Years just because I didn't get to on Halloween haha!

Sounds like a good plan!

Anyone know the best time post-op to see an ENT to check if your vocal folds are fully healed and conjoined? I'm less than three weeks post-op, and had an appointment with an ENT today, but ended up cancelling it because I figured it was still too early in the healing process, that I should probably wait a little bit longer to get my sutures checked? That way I save in insurance and out-of-pocket costs as well, if I'm going to get checked again down the line anyway.

Until your voice sounds very good, it's still healing. If you lived close to Dr Haben he would check it for you free of charge at 3 months as part of the package. My guess is the sutures don't dissolve until week 5 or 6 so take your pick.

Quote from: Dena on November 03, 2015, 02:45:37 PM
Until your voice sounds very good, it's still healing. If you lived close to Dr Haben he would check it for you free of charge at 3 months as part of the package. My guess is the sutures don't dissolve until week 5 or 6 so take your pick.

Thanks Dena! I'll make an appointment with my ENT around the 5 week mark then.

I am one month post-op now and my pitch has gone even higher!! Originally I reported my pitch has gone up probably 20Hz, and was told to wait a couple weeks so the swelling could subside. I have done additional vocal rest the past couple of days.

Today I decided to make a personal recording after the vocal rest and was shocked to find out how much higher I sounded. I am probably at a 40 Hz increase now! I would like for it to go higher to the promised 75 Hz. Still doing 4 more weeks of voice rest before returning to work in December. You ladies were right---patience is everything. I'm happy!!!  ;D

Quote from: Roni on November 03, 2015, 02:20:40 PM
Anyone know the best time post-op to see an ENT to check if your vocal folds are fully healed and conjoined? I'm less than three weeks post-op, and had an appointment with an ENT today, but ended up cancelling it because I figured it was still too early in the healing process, that I should probably wait a little bit longer to get my sutures checked? That way I save in insurance and out-of-pocket costs as well, if I'm going to get checked again down the line anyway.

Yeson said 2 months. I still have to go. Anything sooner is a waste imo. I'm going soon just have some financial difficulty these days.

That's good news! And yes, 4 more weeks of voice rest for you is a good idea! I just finished the 7th week, and it's getting much easier for me to not talk.

If you are worried about the suture, you can let them check the suture sooner - Dr Kim did a check after just 7 days of course. But it makes sense to wait for 8 weeks post op to get a good picture of the healing. With Dr Haben maybe it makes sense to check earlier to see if the threads are still stable at week 4, because some patients recently reportet threads coming loose and the suture opening partially or fully - this could probably be prevented by checking the threads earlier and possibly keep total voice rest for several weeks in case the threads are not holding? But I am not sure about this - its just a hunch.