I am little perplexed and would appreciate some input from my sisters. This area of the forum is labeled "Tran-sexual M to F.
I identify as a Trans Woman. I have not had GRS yet. However, when I do, how can that change my identity to a Tran-sexual Woman?
I will always be a male surgery or not genetically . I don't plan to identify as a Tran-sexual woman after I complete GRS because I haven't changed sex only my external physical characteristics.
I plan to identify as a Transgender woman after GRS. To me, the term transsexual is outdated and inaccurate as one cannot change ones sex.
Has anyone pondered this? What do you think?
The terminology transgender v transsexuals has evolved and many places refer to us as transgender. There is a definition that distinguishes between the two but I have never bother about definitive labeling that group us in a narrow interpretation. So if you want to label yourself it's your right.
Each of us opts for what we want by accepting who we are. This is particularly true for older transitioners. We have had a long life experience and we have the right to be who we wish. Go for it, it's all acceptable.
My Name is Stephanie
I wouldn't dare answer this one. Oh boy :~o
I wouldn't bother overthinking it. I prefer the term transgender for myself, and will continue to use it even after GRS.
My vote is for Transgender when I want an umbrella to stand under, - transgender seems like an out of date label as far as I'm concerned.
Quote from: Joi on September 05, 2015, 11:48:58 PM
as one cannot change ones sex.
Well some of us would disagree - the process is not perfect it is true, but within acceptable medical definitions I would maintain you can to some extent - and it is in fact the erroneous belief that you can not that is innacurate. In about 18 months I will hold a medical degree, so I hope I know a little about this.
It used to hinge on the idea that chromosomes could not be changed and that XX was always female and XY always male. But this clearcut idea that because you could not alter chromosomes you could not be defined as the other sex is actually mistaken. We now know that in fact there are naturally occuring true XX males and XY females. It is a very rare condition but it does exist.
We also begining to be able to manipulate peoples genes - so at some point we may even be able to alter them. It has been done in a lab already. A testis was induced to become an ovary and visa/versa.
As a further complication some of us on this board have intersex conditions either minor or major.
Bottom line however is that it is all a matter of personal preference. I am the opposite of you in that I maintain that my problem was only with my physical sex and not at all with my gender - and hence, while I reluctantly accept the term transsexual, I do not personally accept being called transgender. However as I originally transitioned as a child and had my SRS over three decades ago I do not routinely identify as either, except as a matter of history.
Whatever we choose to call ourself it is to be hoped that we are all prepared to respect others of a different view and not erase their identity as invalid.
The definitions used on this site are here:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html
I am Martine. :)
But I was glad to read the above mentioned dic before, because ... it is complicated. I am in a sensitive period when I don't know what to expect from therapists and the system in the Netherlands, and thus am also being aware I might be denied transition that is restricted to government sector here. Technically, no money can buy hrt.
That said, at least recognizing me as transsexual per 'outdated ICD-10' does some good. A month ago I had talk with a cis woman who 'deals with TG/TS rights', where she denied in a conversation I'd be a TS before I am all done with SRS. It was a horrible conversation, one that strays in suicidal thoughts. Luckily, she is not from the Netherlands.
Resembling to what Ms Grace said, once I get my life, I would not really care what I am called.
Caring about names is artificially induced in my case.
I will add something, my personal opinion about myself has changed. Yes I was a transgender or a trans sexual woman (makes no difference to me). I referred to myself as a transgender female.
I'm now post-trans*. Which means; I'm just another woman who deals with her issues as every single woman on this planet does.
Transsexual used to refer to transgender individuals that transition to their identified gender, hence the MtF and FtM designations. It's a bit passé because most of us don't want to have our assigned gender as part of what defines us permanently. Also it's a bit objectifying and misunderstood by a lot of folks because of the sexual part of it when it has nothing to do with orientation. I still think transsexual should refer to someone exclusively attracted to trans* people, as heterosexual, asexual, homosexual and bisexual all have a pattern in their definitions.
I prefer using trans*, and refer to myself as a transwoman.
Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am not bothered by the difference in the terminology. "Transsexual" was the term I grew up with. Read my avatar area.
Joelene
Woman with a transsexual history but actually just woman will do fine.Thats who I am.
I think the transsexual term began being deprecated a few years back because it implied our condition was somehow sexual. People were associating it with homosexual, bisexual, etc.
Here is a nice graph showing transgender can be used as an umbrella term:
http://transaustin.com/terms-and-concepts/the-trans-umbrella/
Well if saying trans man or woman its up to each person if it means transsexual or transgender...
The term transgender is imo reaching more acceptance now... and people begin to accept gender variance more imo...
I'd say that sometimes people had to fight a lot... so it might be advisable to try to relax... being a man/woman and trying to exude it...
hugs
Nice picture, Laura! :)
Hugs, Devlyn
After seeing my response turning into a rant... I'll also pass
I'll be interested if your opinion changes are after SRS.
also transsexual is spelt as such.
Quote from: suzifrommd on September 06, 2015, 04:43:52 AM
I think the transsexual term began being deprecated a few years back because it implied our condition was somehow sexual. People were associating it with homosexual, bisexual, etc.
My impression as well.
I am a woman of transgender experience.
Hello Everyone, not comfortable being labeled a transgender person, which I view as incorrect to describe me. Often find myself correcting misinformation GLADD puts out there to my colleagues. I am not a cross dresser, ->-bleeped-<- or gender fluid. I suffered from transsexualism, which is a medical condition that can be cured in some with HRT or surgery.
Although I would like it if people just looked at me as just a woman, I am comfortable described as transsexual version of one...but still a woman. Although post SRS I do use transsexed (changed my sex) woman/female when describing myself to media colleagues and the public, trying to distance myself from the label transgender or transsexual woman.
Thank you,
Anne
I don't understand how anyone can think that transsexual is for orientation to trans people. Like following that logic asexual means that someone is attracted to As or pansexual is someone attracted to cookware or bread.
Personally I'd use transgender as an umbrella term and transsexual as someone who has the SEX reassignment surgery. Hence trans-sexual.
A man would never trade his "junk" for a vagina. They cringe at even the idea.
Yet some people who were born with a male body want--or NEED--a body which closely approximates the female body.
The term for these people is transexual. MtF or FtM merely indicates the direction of transition.
Yes, you will always have XY chromosomes...but hardly anyone (including yourself) actually checks for them...unlike what happens when you look in the mirror or get into bed, with or without a lover. They only see what kinds of bits are between the legs.
If "you", that which makes up your Being, says you are supposed to have a penis, and you have been born with one....great! If you haven't, then the doctors can fix what you have into one. Or, when you get into bed and need a "cooter", but don't have one...again, the Drs can fix it.
They are changing the bits--the details--of your body to more accurately match what your self-image is of how your body should be.
All that being said....labels can be useful for communication with others and sometimes to help you understand yourself...but don't imprison yourself in them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
trans, transsexual, woman , beautiful , Stephanie, whatever.
Have enjoyed reading all of the different replies. I know it's a labeling thing and I'm not much into labeling, but they can be useful at times. As I am early in transition, I find that I need to use some kind of terminology when trying to explain myself to family and friends.
Once I have some time in my "public" feminine persona, it's likely that how I present to others, as a woman, will diminish the need for explanations.
My first exposure to the term "transsexual" was in the 1960's when I learned about "Christine Jorgensen." I didn't know or understand the term "transgender" until last year. It's a good fit for me. Think I'll keep it, that is until some wordsmith comes up with something better. ;).
This whole ( or should that be hole ;) ) thing really gets to me >:( I am not changing my " sex " how on earth can I :o XY is all that I was born with. I can only round off a few sharp edges and hope for the best. I really do not like the terms at all. I am expressing the inner me. Not living in some fairy tale.
Quote from: Cindy on September 06, 2015, 02:49:26 AM
I will add something, my personal opinion about myself has changed. Yes I was a transgender or a trans sexual woman (makes no difference to me). I referred to myself as a transgender female.
I'm now post-trans*. Which means; I'm just another woman who deals with her issues as every single woman on this planet does.
Surely you have to accept that you do have a different life experience to natal females? That didn't suddenly change post transition. Pregnancy and menstruation are obvious examples. On the flipside, there are unique aspects to our own M to F transgender experience that natal females will never share. While we may wish for equivalence, we do a strong disservice to ourselves to blindly embrace that ideal as if it were reality.
Quote from: Joi on September 06, 2015, 01:03:23 PM
Have enjoyed reading all of the different replies. I know it's a labeling thing and I'm not much into labeling, but they can be useful at times. As I am early in transition, I find that I need to use some kind of terminology when trying to explain myself to family and friends.
Once I have some time in my "public" feminine persona, it's likely that how I present to others, as a woman, will diminish the need for explanations.
My first exposure to the term "transsexual" was in the 1960's when I learned about "Christine Jorgensen." I didn't know or understand the term "transgender" until last year. It's a good fit for me. Think I'll keep it, that is until some wordsmith comes up with something better. ;).
I had the same thing happen early in my transition...I'd look at the skin on my arm and think, "No matter how much makeup, hair removal, etc this will always have been a man's arm, and there's simply no changing that!"
Not exactly true, that. Our bodies replace all the cells every few years, so once I got on hormones and allowed my mind to perceive "me" as "myself", soon followed by a generous softening of the skin (omg, that was sooo arousing, to feel a woman's arm where there was once a man's arm...) It's now been 3 1/2 years and I simply am unable to see myself as having a male body. I do have vague memories of that, but it's...well, it's difficult to explain.
I am a woman. Sure, I still have the danglers (not for long--65 days and counting!), but do I have a male body? Not anymore! Give yourself time. Do what you can to feminize, what you need to feminize, and over time...things do get better.
When someone asks me what I'm doing, I say "I'm transitioning my body from male to female." When they ask why, I say, "I am a woman in here *points to temple* and need my body to fit with my sense of who I am."
Sometimes they ask how/why etc, and I use the "genitals form in the womb in the first month, but the brain does not develop until the 3rd/4th month...sometimes it happens that a person gets a brain of a woman but the body of a man (or vice versa). Obviously that is very disturbing to you--imagine how it feels for us! We can make things better now!"
Keep the "sexual" in transsexual.
I like the term. It's provocative. I use "transgender" when referring to the general trans population, but I like to call myself a transsexual. To me "transgender" can feel listless, or like it dances around the issue. To say that I am a transsexual is right to the point, like "Oh, this is for real." It has no reservations about who I am, and it makes polite company uncomfortable.
But when I fill out a gender form, I answer "female."
uh, this is coming from more of an observational standpoint; it seems that nowadays mostly people say Transgender and I personally do not want to be called transsexual but that seems to be the terminology of the older generations so idk.
What I do notice is that, even within trans circles, people perceive and use the words differently - depending on how they feel about them.
Words are just words. I think it would be great if we could agree to treat them that way, and get on board with set definitions, rather than take offense to them. I am far more interested in the intention behind what someone says, than how good their language is.
The terms can be very useful in describing who were are, and where we are along our journeys. But as it stands, because of the emotion people attach to the words, many of us feel like we are walking on eggshells.
it can get pretty crazy with words.
The only term I accept...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tattooforaweek.com%2Fimages%2Fwonder-woman-temporary-tattoo.jpg&hash=cfc640ed249fb22479a043a66fc738a80fa55b72)
I am a transsexual, it's the accepted term for the medical condition that I have. Do I also fit under the transgender umbrella? Apparently so. But I am, and to some extent, always will be a transsexual.
Hanging out online in some trans spaces that are not US dominated, I find the use of the word transsexual to be more common.
Quote from: cathyrains on September 06, 2015, 02:31:51 PM
Surely you have to accept that you do have a different life experience to natal females? That didn't suddenly change post transition. Pregnancy and menstruation are obvious examples. On the flipside, there are unique aspects to our own M to F transgender experience that natal females will never share. While we may wish for equivalence, we do a strong disservice to ourselves to blindly embrace that ideal as if it were reality.
I mean honestly, even though I haven't had SRS yet but I am fulltime, being trans is not something I dwell on much.
Quote from: kelly_aus on September 06, 2015, 06:15:01 PM
I am a transsexual, it's the accepted term for the medical condition that I have. Do I also fit under the transgender umbrella? Apparently so. But I am, and to some extent, always will be a transsexual.
Hanging out online in some trans spaces that are not US dominated, I find the use of the word transsexual to be more common.
Bingo.
I do not like the word "trans" anything. It's such an ugly kind of word. I never use it. I tell people I'm a M to Female person, a nice person & a nice woman. My $.02 worth.
They are just words.
Nonetheless, real words, with real definitions.
How we feel about them is our own responsibility. Nobody else's.
I prefer transgender, I do think transexual is dated, but I also think that anyone should be able to identify themselves with whatever term they find appropriate, without feeling less of a woman, I am a binary trans woman who wants to have the surgery and after the surgery if I want to keep the transgender instead of transexual, I'll keep it.
Mod Edit: Please be mindful of others on the forum, the comment removed is covered by ToS 10
Trans-gender = across gender = a non-cis gender identity.
Trans-sex-ual = across biological sex = one who has transtioned. It's a clinical term - which is not going away.
That's all there is to it.
And by the way - sex is not a dirty word ;~)
Quote from: suzifrommd on September 06, 2015, 04:43:52 AM
I think the transsexual term began being deprecated a few years back because it implied our condition was somehow sexual. People were associating it with homosexual, bisexual, etc.
It seems like the term has aquired a bit of negative baggage over the years, I personally refuse to use it and stick with trans or transgender, partly because it's more inclusive and it also helps with
The sex=/=gender thing.
Transsexual = medical interventions. A fairly fixed definition.
Transgender = socio-cultural word to describe actions not considered typical of a persons gender assigned at birth. Culture and gender "norms" vary wildly around the world, and all change over time. What is considered transgender today, might not be in 10 years. Today, women wear pants and have careers. 150 years ago that, would be transgender behaviour.
I think transgender as an umbrella term that means something like persistent gender expression that is opposite of their assigned gender. This is an umbrella term for transsexuals, ->-bleeped-<-s/travesti, cross-dressers, third genders, and genderqueer persons. Transsexual is a term for transgender people who seek medical interventions like hormone replacement therapy and gender confirming surgeries. Not all transsexuals seek surgery though.
Very incitefull Isabelle. Like your reference to the future.
It's just such a negative type word. Yes we may be in transition or maybe not but I've never liked to use that word for myself. I just wish there were a more pleasant sounding word or words. Good luck to us all.
I'm not insulted by any of the terms. I've been called much worse!
Cindi
Quote from: Joi on September 07, 2015, 03:17:05 PM
Very incitefull Isabelle. Like your reference to the future.
I paraphrased the site's definitions. That is the only meaning/context they are allowed to have on this site.
QuoteIt's just such a negative type word.
Can you explain that further? Im struggling to understand what you're trying to communicate.
Quote from: Isabelle on September 07, 2015, 09:32:23 AM
Transsexual = medical interventions. A fairly fixed definition.
Transgender = socio-cultural word to describe actions not considered typical of a persons gender assigned at birth. Culture and gender "norms" vary wildly around the world, and all change over time. What is considered transgender today, might not be in 10 years. Today, women wear pants and have careers. 150 years ago that, would be transgender behaviour.
The specific term "transsexual" is barely more than 60 years old, loaded with baggage, and vulnerable to the transphobic point that "you can't change your biological sex!" when it isn't about sex at all ultimately, but gender. And I've found it incredibly difficult to move the focus to "gender" when the word itself includes "sex".
I personally refuse to use "transsexual" or describe myself with it, for pretty much the same reason Christine Jorgensen did. And the terminology is so new and never truly become all that "fixed"(even excluding the fact word definitions change over time) that I honestly think we'd be well advised, given the recent attention our way, to focus on using different terms.
Quote from: Isabelle on September 07, 2015, 05:56:26 PM
Can you explain that further? Im struggling to understand what you're trying to communicate.
Because language is the framework of thought, and words consist of the signifier(the sounds) linked to the signfied(the thing or things referenced). The signifier "transsexual" signifies, in the public eye, things like Buffalo Bill and unconvincing prostitutes.
We can try the uphill battle to rehabilitate the word, or just move on to something else. But there's a reason people use "pro life" and "pro choice" instead of "pro abortion" or anti abortion".
This is the official site definition.
Transsexual: a person who is mentally one gender, but has the body of the other. They desire to live and be accepted as a member of the mental gender, this is generally accompanied by the strong desire to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.
Your beliefs have no impact on my life, so you'll understand why I don't mind what you think "transsexual" means.
ErinS, I was asking FranicisAnn a question, we've already established the weight I attribite your views.
Quote from: Isabelle on September 07, 2015, 07:19:20 PM
This is the official site definition.
Transsexual: a person who is mentally one gender, but has the body of the other. They desire to live and be accepted as a member of the mental gender, this is generally accompanied by the strong desire to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.
Your beliefs have no impact on my life, so you'll understand why I don't mind what you think "transsexual" means.
I'm aware of the site definition. IMO, we trans people as a group would be well advised to consider moving away from it.
Quote from: Isabelle on September 07, 2015, 07:19:20 PM
ErinS, I was asking FranicisAnn a question, we've already established the weight I attribite your views.
Please don't take my comment as confrontational in any way, it wasn't meant like that. :)The question was raised about word choice, and I'm providing my input.
I define myself as Transexuate instead of Transexual. Transexual is about sexuality, so you could say homosexuality, bisexuality, pansexuality... Is transexuality.
Transexuate is about the sexuation, the fact of attributing a sex to someone. I think it's closer to what i am.
I was diagnosed by Dr. Benjamin in 1966 as transsexual and the term fit perfectly because it WAS all about sex - having a body that was of the wrong biological sex. When the body was fixed, everything else just fell into place and was fine ever after. If/when I refer to my childhood (which isn't often) I still use the term transsexual because it was/is the right definition for me.
:police:
Anyone, anyone at all who tries in anyway to denigrate any gender identification or sexual orientation can expect harsh responses from the Forum Admin.
Cindy
Quote from: Ange on September 08, 2015, 06:15:31 AM
I define myself as Transexuate instead of Transexual. Transexual is about sexuality, so you could say homosexuality, bisexuality, pansexuality... Is transexuality.
Transexuate is about the sexuation, the fact of attributing a sex to someone. I think it's closer to what i am.
Incorrect I'm afraid. The term transsexual has nothing to do with sexuality. It is talking about the state of one's biological sex.
We don't call it trans-
sexuality. We call it trans-
sex-ualism. The operating word is simply 'sex' - not 'sexuality'.
And again, 'transsexual' is not a negative word.
It is neutral - clinical.
If it is painful to have that mirror held up, that is for an individual to resolve. Words are not and never are the problem. It is our attitude toward them.
We grow stronger and wiser by accepting all things that come with our journey. Not by leaving bits on our plate we find distasteful.
Quote from: Zoetrope on September 08, 2015, 06:56:27 AM
And again, 'transsexual' is not a negative word.
It is neutral - clinical.
If it is painful to have that mirror held up, that is for an individual to resolve. Words are not and never are the problem. It is our attitude toward them.
We grow stronger and wiser by accepting all things that come with our journey. Not by leaving bits on our plate we find distasteful.
Beautifully put!
Well sure, but that's not the point here.
You can define the words you use as you want, but you won't change the fact that people will get them in the way they are used to. Langage is made for sharing. If you are imprecise, you fail at sharing. That's all there is to it.
Transexuality is based on two parts, "trans" and "sexuality". That's not a question here. There's no "uality" added at the end. It's sexuality we're talking about - a word that became, with time, related to sexual behaviour and preferences. I prefer "sexuation" because it's relative to the sex differenciation. It's more precise.
That's also why I don't like the "feminist" term. "Feminist" and "Transexual" are words that are unprecise, but hold an historic meaning which I like and respect. But in the end, langage is about communication, not about history.
Personnally, I have no problem with the transexual term. It has a bad connotation but well, it's not the word that have a bad connotation, but the people that are supposedly define by it. I just think it's a word that doesn't describe me well. That's all there is to it.
I think this thread has run its course.
I'm locking it before it gets out of hand.
Thank You
Cindy