Could you love (romantic love) a transperson who hasn't had genital surgery?
Could you make love with a transperson who hasn't had genital surgery?
Why or why not?
And would whether they had plans for SRS or not make any difference to you?
I've only been with cisgendered people, so I can't be sure exactly how I'd feel with a person whose identity and body weren't congruent. I do feel it would make no difference to me, but never having been with a TS, I can't be sure.
I'm bisexual. I'm one of those people who "love the person, not the body." So it's kind of a non-issue to me.
Quote from: Nero on September 15, 2007, 08:21:10 PM
Could you love (romantic love) a transperson who hasn't had genital surgery?
Could you make love with a transperson who hasn't had genital surgery?
Why or why not?
And would whether they had plans for SRS or not make any difference to you?
Yes, Yes and No. It's the person who I fall in love with, not their physical sex.
Zythyra
Hi Nero,
You didn't say if your post was only directed to other transpeople. I am a GG. I could easily love a transperson; with or without surgery; with or without surgery plans. Of course, it is easy for me since I identify as bisexual (or rather, multi-flexible). So I wouldn't care where on the male-female spectrum someone fell or planned to fall.
I'm not sure. Would this transperson feel at ease dating a transsexual woman, particularly if she's pre-operative? There are many things to consider and while I may date someone who is a FTM (I'm heterosexual) his feelings need to be addressed as well.
Well, If we were both pre-op, I see no issue since sexual desire would be pretty much non-exsistant for the both of us. If one was post-op or non-op, the love would certainly be there, just as strong as ever but it will take some serious compromises from both people.
Hmmmmm... this question has been asked many times here at Susan's, and honestly I am fascinated at the evolution of my answer over the last year. Just to give you an idea of what I am referring to, here are some of my answers from previous threads:
Quote from: Tinkerbell on August 18, 2006, 11:06:46 PM
I wish I coud say "yes" but I would be lying if I did. I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound insensitive, but this is how I am and how I feel. I've thought a lot about this, but my answer remains the same...I would never date a FTM, that's just me, only me, and not a Tinkerbell's law or anything of that sort. :)
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
And then the evolution begins....
Quote from: Tink on April 06, 2007, 10:33:03 PM
Nevertheless, dating, IMO, does not mean having sex or sleeping with whomever you are going out. So having said that, sure, I'd date a FTM for the reasons I have stated; however, I am not sure whether I could have anything sexual with that person. Why? not because of his genitals, but mainly because I wouldn't know how to please him sexually. That's the most honest response I can give, I think. I hope I haven't offended anyone and if I have, I apologize. :)
tink :icon_chick:
and my feelings transform even more....
Quote from: Tink on May 16, 2007, 08:20:23 PM
Hmmmmm another interesting thread indeed. Well, I am only attracted to men, and I am attracted to the appearance of the male form, body, secondary sex characteristics (i.e, voice, facial hair, muscle tone, demeanor, posture), etc. I have only been intimate with biological men, so their genitalia and characteristics (listed above) have always gone together. However, I must say that, in my case, genitals are not important either. On another thread, I said that I can easily be attracted to female to male transsexuals; it is their masculine appearance (chemically altered by testosterone) that I am attracted to, not their genitalia. As far as intimacy is concerned, well I think that love making does find its ways, especially if a couple has plenty of imagination, so personally, I don't consider it a problem either. ;D >:D
tink :icon_chick:
So I guess these posts speak for themselves, don't they? :) Genitals are not important to me, but passing as male is.
tink :icon_chick:
Prior to transition, I was strictly a straight male, with no attraction to men. Today, after 2 years on hormones and a year living full time, I have had a couple of encounters with men, and have settled into a long-term relationship with another pre-op transsexual.
We both intend to have surgery, and frequently talk about what things will be like after. We thoroughly expect to be together for the rest of our lives (hey, we're old so it's not all that long!), and the only question about surgery is whether one or the other should go first, so we can be an "opposite sexes" couple long enough to get married, or whether we should go ahead and schedule our surgeries at the same time.
Attraction to us is entirely about the person, not the plumbing.
I've not thought about it quite frankly but I think I could. I'm a straight gal who's attracted to what a lad is not what he has.
Quote from: Nero on September 15, 2007, 08:21:10 PM
Could you love (romantic love) a transperson who hasnt had genital surgery?
Maybe. I dont really know. I could make an exception if my feelings were strong.
QuoteCould you make love with a transperson who hasnt had genital surgery?
Why or why not?
No. I am attracted to both the person and the genitals of the person. My view is that its different to have sex with a biological man who has lost his genitals for a or b reasons. but having sex with a person with female genitalia is a another thing no matter how male that person looks.
QuoteAnd would whether they had plans for SRS or not make any difference to you?
If he wanted to get genital surgery, I would support him. If he didnt want to get it, I would end the relationship for the reasons I have already said.
Yes I could and whether or not she planned to have surgery is her decision. If I fell in love with the person, the body parts wouldn't matter. I've never been in the situation, only dated bio girls, but the idea of dating a pre-op transwoman doesn't bother me.
Dennis
Easy awnser. Yes i could
Quote from: Nero on September 15, 2007, 08:21:10 PM
Could you love (romantic love) a transperson who hasn't had genital surgery?
Could you make love with a transperson who hasn't had genital surgery?
Why or why not?
And would whether they had plans for SRS or not make any difference to you?
I've only been with cisgendered people, so I can't be sure exactly how I'd feel with a person whose identity and body weren't congruent. I do feel it would make no difference to me, but never having been with a TS, I can't be sure.
yeah no problems for me but it would have to be romantic love and as for sex we would work it out
Absolutely!
Easy answer = YUP! It's the person that matters not their sex or genitals or "status".
Rashelle
Quote from: Pia on September 16, 2007, 08:22:02 AM
QuoteCould you make love with a transperson who hasnt had genital surgery?
Why or why not?
No. I am attracted to both the person and the genitals of the person. My view is that its different to have sex with a biological man who has lost his genitals for a or b reasons. but having sex with a person with female genitalia is a another thing no matter how male that person looks.
Pia, so by your statement above, I gather that if a bio guy thinks of you as anything else but a woman because "you are a person with a penis, no matter how female you look", that would be OK too? How would you feel if my scenario were indeed true? Just trying to understand what you meant above.
tink :icon_chick:
Could you love (romantic love) a transperson who hasn't had genital surgery?
i did for many years.
Could you make love with a transperson who hasn't had genital surgery?
Why or why not?
yes. genitals were never an issue for me or my gf. we were both preop when we met. now we both postop and nothing has really changed.
And would whether they had plans for SRS or not make any difference to you?
not really. if she'd chosen not to have surgery, i'd still love her the same
Yes I could, romantic love is the most satisfying of all! ;)
I could have a platonic relationship but not sexual acts as I'm asexual. I'm not sexually attracted to anything. I presume peeps have heard of asexuality, isnt that right?
Quote from: Blanche on September 17, 2007, 02:17:26 AM
I could have a platonic relationship but not sexual acts as I'm asexual. I'm not sexually attracted to anything. I presume peeps have heard of asexuality, isnt that right?
OHHH MY!!! that's my post?
there is another person like me in here?
Quote from: Tink on September 16, 2007, 08:35:54 PM
Quote from: Pia on September 16, 2007, 08:22:02 AM
QuoteCould you make love with a transperson who hasnt had genital surgery?
Why or why not?
No. I am attracted to both the person and the genitals of the person. My view is that its different to have sex with a biological man who has lost his genitals for a or b reasons. but having sex with a person with female genitalia is a another thing no matter how male that person looks.
Pia, so by your statement above, I gather that if a bio guy thinks of you as anything else but a woman because "you are a person with a penis, no matter how female you look", that would be OK too? How would you feel if my scenario were indeed true? Just trying to understand what you meant above.
tink :icon_chick:
Tink, no that wouldnt be OK. I'd feel very uncomfortable because I'm a woman. My penis doesnt make me male. I take back what I said about trans men. Sorry. I presume I must have been tired that day. Thank you for opening my eyes.
Quote from: Pia on October 04, 2007, 05:39:12 AM
Quote from: Tink on September 16, 2007, 08:35:54 PM
Pia, so by your statement above, I gather that if a bio guy thinks of you as anything else but a woman because "you are a person with a penis, no matter how female you look", that would be OK too? How would you feel if my scenario were indeed true? Just trying to understand what you meant above.
tink :icon_chick:
Tink, no that wouldnt be OK. I'd feel very uncomfortable because I'm a woman. My penis doesnt make me male. I take back what I said about trans men. Sorry. I presume I must have been tired that day. Thank you for opening my eyes.
I can say that for me, that is a very uncomfortable position to be in. I want to be loved and desired because of who I am. The idea that part of that love and desire is because I have male parts makes me want to run away from the situation.
I am unfamiliar with the term "cisgendered." Will someone please tell me what that is?
When I transitioned I knew that my sexual desire would be with another woman, no boys allowed into my life.
I also concluded that my life was to be with another like me, M to F.
I am blessed with the greatest romantic love of my entire life, the love that will, for me, survive into the next dimension, with another M to F.
Sex isn't a part of our lives yet. After I have my GRS we expect that it will be. My sexual orientation is lesbian. It helps having one like me to share her life with me.
The answer in a word, based on experience, is, yes.
Wing Walker
Re: Could you love (romantic love) a transperson who hasn't had genital surgery?
I do and she hasn't.......next question
I cannot be honest with my answer because I've never been in that situation. I presume I could.
i discovered the transgender community in my area a year ago. when i did i was totally blown away by transwomen. it is like i had found my way home. there is a term called 'transensual' that describes how a person can only be sexually attracted or emotionally to transwomen. i have since started to transition myself.
I know i am not attracted to men. i am not attracted to women. i am only attracted to transwomen. So yes i want to find that wonderful person to be with in a long term relationship. i want to love her and give her everything i can. at 58 the chances of this are very slim so i fully expect to be alone for the rest of my days.
love Kristy
Not only could I, but I do. Both myself and my girlfriend are pre-op.
Janet
mmm i have found that i need to look into a persons eyes to really see them. i already know what my dream lover will look like. slim like me. open and honest. loving and caring. and yes must be transwoman. i simply like to be topped now and then.
but really love is the most powerful of all human emotions. sometimes the fates like to through curves at us. we have our dreams and then we are at a starbucks or something and you meet someone and their is instant love. i dont know quite how this happens. our brains are formidable things. in less than a blink of an eye they toss about all the pros and cons decide what we should do and away we go. in milliseconds our brians have told us proceed full steam ahead. people talk about the 'chemistry' and thats true enough but the immense power our brains have has told us ;yep, go for it.
amazing.
all i really know is that i have an immense power of love inside me waiting to be loose and shared.
like the beatles said 'the love you take is equal to the love you give'
love all. Kristy
Hi Nero,
Trans or not, SRS or not, gay or not, straight or not, etc. Is not what is relevant to me. I love the person, we form a bond. Sex is just simply a communication of that love.
HUGS
Brenda
I definitely could. But I don't know if that was always true.
I think some time during my transition phase (which starts in the head, not with the physical stuff) gender became kind of... blurry... to me. All around. And I'm pretty much still there. I could love and FTM or MTF with or without surgery. Or cisgendered people. Or gender "curious" people. Provided I loved the person in the first place.
Anyway, I would expect a lot of trans folks to be pretty open minded on this topic. Would that the rest of the world felt the same it would make things a lot easier for us. :P
To me at least, what a person looks like matters very little compared to who the person is on the inside. How you think and act is much more important to me than if you're male/female/mtf/ftm/pre-op/post-op/non-op/etc. In the grand scheme of things, I don't feel it really matters much. I fall in love more with the mind and personality, but that's just me.. *shrugs*
Am I emotionally stable enough to give a transperson the support that they need going through transition/SRS if the case may be, that's where I'm not quite sure! If I end up 'clicking' with a transperson, I'm not going to hold it against them one bit, but I'd let them know what's going on with me, so that we both know what we're getting ourselves into! That's the only thing that would make me weary at all, am *I* able to give them what they need out of a lover.
My 2 cents worth,
Love and Sex. Two separate words. They may be, at some time,be conducive. But I think falling in love is different to falling into sex. When you truely love someone, that very special person, the sex bit works it way through. If the relationship is based on sex, well you girls and guys in the US have lots of examples from Hollywood. Doesn't work, to my mind.
Of course and not so far discussed is that sex is for procreation, and no I'm not a Bible pushing person ( sorry if I offended anyone). Cis girls at sometime in a relationship are (commonly) looking for a partner to father her children, Cis Guys may be less motivated in this but .... swings and roundabouts.
In a TG relationship this may not be an issue. Only trans women who have frozen down sperm and transmen who have frozen down eggs, will be able to have children, maybe. Yes we can adopt etc, but that's not the point of the thread. So sexuality for trans people may be a little different to that in the cis community.
Sorry if I'm rambling.
Love you Gals and Dudes.
Keeps me sane.
Now you know how scarey I am >:-)
Cindy
I'm terribly basic. Don't want to be that way; just am.
QuoteCould you love (romantic love) a transperson who hasn't had genital
Only if I didn't know that he was trans. I think that once I found out, I would be outta there.
QuoteCould you make love with a transperson who hasn't had genital surgery? Why or why not?
No. I'm not attracted to women, regardless of their equipment. And I'm grossed out by female genitals (wish I weren't), so a pre-op (pre-SRS) transman would be off-limits as well, as would a guy who wasn't planning any genital surgery.
QuoteAnd would whether they had plans for SRS or not make any difference to you?
Quite frankly, I don't see myself getting romantically involved with anyone who is trans. As I said, I'm not attracted to women at all. And I like "natural" penises. If I were to get involved with a transman, he would have to have a hella good phallo.
I feel like a hypocrite, but I think I'm really just a typical Kinsey 6 gay guy--in atypical packaging. Sigh.
Oh cool! Another resurrected Nero post! ;D
For me the physical attraction to men has more to do with the shape of the face, the broadness of shoulders, the male countour of the chest, etc. than with genitalia. A Transguy would almost certainly have to have been on T a while to attract me; But, I figure that I'm unlikely to know for certain exactly what's in a guy's pants until I'm already pretty smitten, and at that point I can work with whatever he's got. I'm not sure if I'd be able to bring myself to go down on a pre-op T-man, though. :icon_neutral: I'd probably try it once, but no promises. :P
For me the answer is yes because I'm in that situation right now, of course.
The more interesting question for me is, now that I've experienced it, do I actually prefer it? Hmm... *scratches chin*
Yes. I'm one of those rare people that would like a transperson more if they haven't had genital surgery
Quote from: Arch on August 02, 2009, 03:40:13 AM
I'm terribly basic. Don't want to be that way; just am.
Only if I didn't know that he was trans. I think that once I found out, I would be outta there.
No. I'm not attracted to women, regardless of their equipment. And I'm grossed out by female genitals (wish I weren't), so a pre-op (pre-SRS) transman would be off-limits as well, as would a guy who wasn't planning any genital surgery.
Quite frankly, I don't see myself getting romantically involved with anyone who is trans. As I said, I'm not attracted to women at all. And I like "natural" penises. If I were to get involved with a transman, he would have to have a hella good phallo.
I feel like a hypocrite, but I think I'm really just a typical Kinsey 6 gay guy--in atypical packaging. Sigh.
Why are you calling other transmen "women"? That's the same as saying that a pre-op transwoman is a "man" just because she's got a penis. Are transmen "women" because they've got vaginas? Are transwomen "men" because they've got penises? What's the point of transitioning then? Why are you transitioning then?
"Hella good phallos" won't be an option for many transmen for many years to come, so you're stuck with your vagina as well. Are you a "woman" then too?
Yes, unless she was unwilling to have a sexual relationship. What exactly sex would mean would depend on both of us to work out. But I couldn't be in a romantic relationship without sex, however defined.
Jay
Hmm. Only if they were comfortable enough with what they had themselves. Not sure if sexuality would work out very well depending on who they were.
QuoteCould you love (romantic love) a transperson who hasn't had genital surgery?
Could you make love with a transperson who hasn't had genital surgery?
Why or why not?
And would whether they had plans for SRS or not make any difference to you?
My answer would be no for all.. sorry for the honestly. But I have a massive hang up with no having a penis even after lower surgery I still wouldn't feel like I could compare..
I do find
trans women attractive don't get me wrong. But if they didn't have the bottom surgery I just couldn't. Own personal reasons.
(Ready for the firing squad)
Nero I know exactly how you feel I keep asking my friends about this and alot of them say its down to the person them selfs not what they have in there underwear. I can see where they are coming from.. just I couldn't get past that.
Jay
Quote from: Leslie on August 02, 2009, 06:54:35 AM
Why are you calling other transmen "women"?
Uh, I'm not. I simply said I'm not attracted to women, period. And that I would have a problem with a pre-op transman AS WELL. I could have been clearer, but you could have asked for clarification first before moving in for the perceived kill.
Not everyone here knows that I'm gay, you know, so I tried to cover all the bases for the newcomers.
Sheesh.
Edited to add: Sorry, didn't mean to get all huffy over a simple misunderstanding. It's the T!! I swear!!!!! It's turned me into a raving maniac!!!!! :icon_pistoles:
Guns don't kill people; emoticons with guns kill people.
Yes, without question.
Jay,
There is no reason for a firing squad, everyone has preferences and hang ups. There is nothing wrong with that. Thank you for being brave enough to even say it. :icon_hug:
Yes, I can and would love anyone, regardless of their genital configuration, and would happily have sex with them in any way that was comfortable for both of us (if I didn't have so many hang-ups about sex to begin with :D ). The personality of someone, who they are inside, is so much more important than their physical makeup. But there would have to be chemistry between us first, i.e. shared interests, sense of humor, intelligence, etc.
I have no idea. I'm committed (legally married) to someone and my eyes have not strayed for years.
Cindi
Good answer, Fae! :)
Quote from: finewine on August 03, 2009, 12:03:33 AM
Good answer, Fae! :)
Thank you. I'm not in a position to judge anyone, and if I love them, then it shouldn't matter what their genitals are.
I think I'd have issues pre-op or post-op, simply because I think our issues would clash and make us incompatible.
Quote from: Monty on August 03, 2009, 12:19:13 AM
I think I'd have issues pre-op or post-op, simply because I think our issues would clash and make us incompatible.
If you truly love someone enough, those "issues" won't matter, and you'll find ways to work around them.
Nope, no way. Not even something I'd consider. I'm attracted only to women. I have absolutely no desire to have a 2nd penis in my bed nor am I a fan of anal sex.
Yes.
What's between the ears is far more important than what's between the legs. :)
W~
QuoteWhat's between the ears is far more important than what's between the legs.
Sounds like the right answer...but I challenge whether this is truly an honest answer for most people.
Finding a person physically attractive, sexually fulfilling and so on is not inferior to mental compatibility....and visa versa. I'm unconvinced that there are many people out there who would disregard looks, sex, etc. and love just "the mind" of a partner.
It sounds lofty to assert that one is only interested in the intellectual because we fear sounding shallow if we say "actually I want to find my partner attractive too". It's an irrational fear, in my opinion...and it leads us to hypocrisy.
Come on, seriously ... how many people here are genuinely saying they'd enjoy an intimate relationship with someone who they find hideously ugly? If we're being honest with ourselves, I imagine most of us would admit that we want to look at our partner and not be repelled.
Similarly, you are either ok with a prospective partners genitalia or you're not...I doubt very much anyone would be able to ignore them just because the partner had a great mind or personality.
Especially genitalia, in fact, as bad-sex tension is hugely destructive in relationships.
Good question - is it possible to have romantic love without physical attraction?
How do blind people fall in love?
"Ooh I love the juxtaposition of your features, it's sooo sexy" face-fondling ensues
I don't really understand visually based physical attraction.
I don't really even understand being physically attracted to a physical attribute, to be honest.
I just don't get it.
I am capable of loving a person regardless of their physical attributes.
Yes, I want my partner/playmate/whatever you want to call it, to be physically healthy, but it's not a seller. I can get frustrated with people I care about causing themselves severe harm by eating utter rubbish all the time, and tell them off for it, bluntly pointing out, for instance, their weight, but that doesn't mean I love 'em any less. If anything, it's proof of how much I care about them.
Quote from: finewine on August 04, 2009, 03:21:13 PM
Sounds like the right answer...but I challenge whether this is truly an honest answer for most people.
Finding a person physically attractive, sexually fulfilling and so on is not inferior to mental compatibility....and visa versa. I'm unconvinced that there are many people out there who would disregard looks, sex, etc. and love just "the mind" of a partner.
It sounds lofty to assert that one is only interested in the intellectual because we fear sounding shallow if we say "actually I want to find my partner attractive too". It's an irrational fear, in my opinion...and it leads us to hypocrisy.
Come on, seriously ... how many people here are genuinely saying they'd enjoy an intimate relationship with someone who they find hideously ugly? If we're being honest with ourselves, I imagine most of us would admit that we want to look at our partner and not be repelled.
Similarly, you are either ok with a prospective partners genitalia or you're not...I doubt very much anyone would be able to ignore them just because the partner had a great mind or personality. Especially genitalia, in fact, as bad-sex tension is hugely destructive in relationships.
I think I only fall for the mind after I fall for the body.
Yeah I would, i'm pansexual so i don't care whats in your pants.
Quote from: Miniar on August 04, 2009, 03:43:22 PM
I don't really understand visually based physical attraction.
I don't really even understand being physically attracted to a physical attribute, to be honest.
I just don't get it.
[...]
So you believe you can be romantically in love with a brain in a jar (which, by extension, defines romance for you as purely intellectual in scope)?
If this is incorrect, how does it differ from your quoted statement?
This isn't an attack on your point of view, I'm genuinely interested because I clearly work very differently from you, dear boy :)
Quote from: Natasha on January 30, 2009, 04:01:13 PM
is it really shallow to want to go out with someone that you are physically attracted to? being able to sustain passion in a relationship is important. i don't think that's shallow. it's even worse when people deny it and pretend not to be, but they really are.
I don't think that I could, I love pussy too much lol
I find it goes the other way. If there is no mental attraction, there's only a certain amount of time before they start bothering me. To me passion streams from emotion, and if I can't make that connection, then the odds of us having enjoyable sex are slim slash none.
Oh I don't disagree that there needs to be a mental attraction or compatibility. I think what I, and maybe a few others, are railing against is the claim that physical looks are irrelevant. "The first bite is with the eye" and all that.
I certainly could not sustain, or even start, a romantic relationship with a dead-eyed simpleton or a wet, clingy character. I like feisty, strong willed, intelligent, independent partners.
It's essential really because the clingy, hip-monster types couldn't cope with entertaining themselves because of the stuff I get sucked into for hours on end sometimes and the dullards would have absolutely nothing in common with me...I'd be better off with a labrador - at least we could play fetch!
Quote from: finewine on August 06, 2009, 01:45:01 AM
Oh...I'd be better off with a labrador - at least we could play fetch!
So that's why you are bouncing! Driving the labrador nuts :laugh:
I hate it when peeps resurrect topics that were started years ago. Most of what we said then isn't current anymore. ::)
So scratch what I said 2 years ago.
Quote from: Jeannette on September 15, 2007, 09:14:22 PM
I'm not sure. Would this transperson feel at ease dating a transsexual woman, particularly if she's pre-operative? There are many things to consider and while I may date someone who is a FTM (I'm heterosexual) his feelings need to be addressed as well.
I'm post-op now in a loving relationship with a cis man. I wouldn't date a pre-op trans man. Nothing personal just the way I feel. Whilst personality is important in any relationship, I also like falling for a bloke that's handsome. I don't like arrogant, know-it-all male chauvinist pigs no matter how handsome or intelligent they are.
Quote from: Jeannette on August 06, 2009, 12:15:36 PM
I hate it when peeps resurrect topics that were started years ago. Most of what we said then isn't current anymore. ::)
So scratch what I said 2 years ago.
I'm post-op now in a loving relationship with a cis man. I wouldn't date a pre-op trans man. Nothing personal just the way I feel. Whilst personality is important in any relationship, I also like falling for a bloke that's handsome. I don't like arrogant, know-it-all male chauvinist pigs no matter how handsome or intelligent they are.
sorry i guess i am the 'peep'. however being new;y transitioning and new to the forum i had not looked at the date line. also since i am new to the cahnges going on inside me that i need tp gather as much info as possible in a very short time. frame. at 59 i dont have that much longer to go so i am trying to change as fast as possible. "i've still got some love to give"
yes I could..
Myles
Quote from: finewine on August 04, 2009, 04:28:27 PM
So you believe you can be romantically in love with a brain in a jar (which, by extension, defines romance for you as purely intellectual in scope)?
If this is incorrect, how does it differ from your quoted statement?
This isn't an attack on your point of view, I'm genuinely interested because I clearly work very differently from you, dear boy :)
I could become romantically in love with a "person lacking a physical body" but.. A guy's got needs.. I would probably end up with a physical lover of some sort on the side as well... but then..
I don't understand how people can "only love one person at a time" either... so....
Quote from: Miniar on August 07, 2009, 08:50:06 AM
I don't understand how people can "only love one person at a time" either... so....
Not sure I'm understanding this. Do you mean that it's not possible for you to love only one person at a time even if one person is all you have at the moment, or are you saying that you cannot LIMIT yourself to loving one person at a time? Or something else entirely?
I still consider myself polyamorous even though I've been in a monogamous relationship for years. I chose to be monogamous with this person, and for some reason I never wanted to be with anyone else during this time. But I'm still poly.
Well, technically, I have loved people online - the equivalent of a "brain in a jar". There is something terrible about never being able to feel physical closeness, however; and something I doubt I'd be able to live with for the entirety of my life. But if the love were strong enough... I'd probably live my whole miserable existence in daydreams of what could be. I'm ridiculous like that.
On the main subject... I am pansexual. Individuals should have their own beauty, their own appeal, and I shouldn't discriminate in any way. I like the idea of a relationship with a trans person, regardless of whether they be pre or post surgery or hormones, because of the psychological position it would put us in; the sort of understanding, I suppose. Bodies are the means by which we do something, but not the reason we do it. But that is my opinion.
I do not care in the slightest what is in someone's pants. While I prefer pole to hole (lol), I'm down with whatever. My wife was pre-op mtf, and I was fine with that. I care a lot more about who the person is than what they have; however, that's not to say I don't care about physical appearance. It's all a package deal.
SD
Quote from: Arch on August 07, 2009, 10:58:40 AM
Not sure I'm understanding this. Do you mean that it's not possible for you to love only one person at a time even if one person is all you have at the moment, or are you saying that you cannot LIMIT yourself to loving one person at a time? Or something else entirely?
I don't understand how people presume to control their emotional attraction to another person in such a way that makes it impossible for them to fall in love with more than one person at a time.
(is that any clearer?)
Quote from: Miniar on August 07, 2009, 07:10:29 PM
I don't understand how people presume to control their emotional attraction to another person in such a way that makes it impossible for them to fall in love with more than one person at a time.
(is that any clearer?)
Oh, yes, much.
I myself have no problems with being involved with more than one person, but I don't necessarily feel deprived if I'm only with one. And I have to admit that while I was physically monogamous with my now-ex-partner, I was not mentally so. I was male in my mind and had sex with men in my mind. I had my straight male real-life partner and two imaginary gay partners. But I didn't think of them as imaginary. They were real people to me.
I think I'm going off topic...
Post Merge: August 07, 2009, 07:28:17 PM
Quote from: Adrian on August 07, 2009, 04:45:15 PM
Individuals should have their own beauty, their own appeal, and I shouldn't discriminate in any way.
I feel this way, too, but not sexually. ;D
All kidding aside, I think it's interesting that so many people (and I'm NOT talking about anyone on these boards) think that homosexuality (and by extension, I suppose, any same-sex attraction) is a choice. It never was for me. I tried SO HARD to be bisexual. Sometimes people laugh when I say it, but it's true. No amount of wishing changed my inner self on that score.
I think it's unfortunate that I'm gay and phallocentric. Narrows down my options considerably. I can't be with women, even transwomen. I can't be with transmen (well, maybe with a guy who's had a fantastic phalloplasty, but I don't know).
Most (okay, virtually all) gay men have no interest in a dickless wonder. Straight men, of course, will have no interest in me because I'm male. All that is left is a few bi guys, and a lot of them could have problems with my anatomy, not to mention that we would have to be mentally compatible in the first place.
So I guess it kind of bothers me when people talk about "not discriminating" or "being open" to love/sex with a person of any gender, including cis and trans of all persuasions. Phrased that way, attraction sort of sounds like a choice. Some of us just aren't built that way, and no amount of trying is going to change that. I'm not trying to be difficult, and I'm NOT trying to pick on Adrian. And I think it's great that so many people here identify themselves as pan and omni. It's just that I'm wired the way I'm wired, but sometimes I wish I weren't.
I don't look at love and sex as equal opportunity pursuits. I just like what I like. I like smart guys. I like geeks and nerds. I like men with a sense of humor that matches mine. I don't like men who are too stereotypically masculine (too stereotypical from my perspective, that is).
Obviously, I discriminate when it comes to the mental attributes; I do the same when it comes to physical attributes--when it comes to gender, when it comes to genitals and secondary sex characteristics, when it comes to body types.
I'm curious. Did any of you pan/omni folks choose to be that way? Did any of you have to consciously reconcile trans people with pre-op genitals, or do you just take people as they come?
Interesting - phallocentric. As a basically gay man in the making, such a thing is very painful for me to hear about. Because I know no one is going to want a "dickless" wonder. I don't want to be a dickless wonder for other reasons, so I am doing what I have to do.
I never tried to be anything other than what I am. I sometimes feel pansexual, but I'm not really sure if I'm attracted to women. I know I feel attraction to men, and always have. I always saw myself as a gay man. But I've been with women - not sexually, but emotionally. It felt some level of right, so long as I played the part of "the man". I guess I tried not to be a lesbian, but that's all I tried to do - I just hated to be seen as more female.
Quote from: Adrian on August 07, 2009, 10:19:37 PM
Interesting - phallocentric. As a basically gay man in the making, such a thing is very painful for me to hear about. Because I know no one is going to want a "dickless" wonder. I don't want to be a dickless wonder for other reasons, so I am doing what I have to do.
I think it's not just the absence of a penis that will doom me--it's also the presence of the female genitals.
I decided that I didn't wanted genital surgery unless it could give me the real thing in one procedure, without a large risk of complications or revisions. I don't want meta, and I don't think meta would help me much in the gay world. But I have to admit...at least with meta, I could get a vaginectomy and balls.
I have very mixed feelings about my front hole, but I don't want to trade it in for anything less than a fully functional and cosmetically pleasing penis. So I'm staying put. And I can't afford meta anyway.
I wish I could poll all the single gay and bi guys in my county and ask them the same questions that Nero posed in the OP. That would give me a place to start. Hey, Nero, how do you feel about becoming a door to door pollster?
HGH topic split
go here for HGH conversation : https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,63398.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,63398.0.html)
Quote from: Nero on August 08, 2009, 12:48:06 AM
HGH topic split
go here for HGH conversation : https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,63398.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,63398.0.html)
Thanks, Nero. But I didn't know there was an HGH #1. I didn't find it when I searched for it a little while back.