Basically, I'm still deciding on SRS, and I'm in the stage where I'm trying to glean absolutely every possible data point I can get.
There's lots of information out there about SRS, but most of it seems to be written by trans girls who follow the typical "knew since the age of 5, remember crossdressing as a kid" group of the trans community.
I didn't know as a kid. Although I was always effeminate, I identified as a boy when I was a kid, I had no idea I'd develop gender dysphoria, and I didn't even ever think about it. Then puberty hit me like a ton of bricks and I found myself every bit as dysphoric about my body as a pre-puberty-onset transsexual.
I guess mainly I'm just scared because really there's no way for me to know if the physical "phantom" sensation I've been feeling ever since puberty, and the umpteen amount of times that every single time something sexual happens to me I find myself mentally experiencing those things with an imaginary vulva that I don't have, are actually what it's like in real life. Basically, I'm scared that I'm wrong, and that because I didn't seem to have any problems with it as a kid that it's just some mental pathology that won't actually be cured with surgery, or it won't actually fix the body comfort problem that I'm expecting it to fix, or that somehow because I haven't even figured out what my sexual orientation is yet that I'm not qualified to make such a life-altering decision, and am more likely to be wrong about it.
Thoughts?
What I'm looking for is to see stories from people who are like me, who didn't start consciously desiring to be female until puberty or later, with either a lesbian, bisexual, or not-sure sexual orientation, who have had SRS... what was the experience like for you mentally? Was it the right decision? Did it really make your body and sexual experiences more congruent with the self-image in your fantasies?
No studies that really single out this group and compare its outcomes to those of the always-knew attracted-to-men group seem to exist. I'm just scared that I'm more likely to be wrong. I haven't come up with a single concrete reason why it would be wrong, but I'm just scared of being wrong because it's permanent and I'd be living with the consequences for 50+ years if for some reason I am.
I don't think genital dysphoria in childhood is a requirement or even as common as we tend to think.
As a heterosexual woman, I sometimes think I coped with genital dysphoria early on by being somewhat sexually attracted to what I had. It didn't last forever, and it probably (sadly) prolonged my MtF diagnosis, but it meant I wasn't conscious of my dysphoria until later on.
I've never heard of your history having any effect on SRS outcomes. If it made a difference I think we're all know by now.
But even so everyone's different, and from what I've followed of your journey I'd expect it would help you a lot. Speaking as a non-medical person of course.
This "knowing since you're a kid" narrative is toxic in a lot of ways for those of us who don't fit it... this is a way I hadn't considered, but I guess I'm adding it to the list.
I believe that I genuinely was a cis man for years, and I didn't figure out that that had changed until I was 31. I'm not exactly sure *when* it changed, but it was definitely after 25, never mind right after puberty! I was bisexual before transition and am still bi after, though I like men a bit more than I used to. And I had GRS when I was 34, only three years after determining that I wanted to transition and a little over two years of living full-time. Yes, it made my body match my mental map and my fantasies, and yes, it made sex more satisfying - and possible, because after a while I could never bear to think of that thing while having sex. It was *different* than I'd imagined it would be, because having a vagina and vulva is going to come with surprises when you've never actually lived with it before (oh, God, the moment when I first stood up and felt lube sliding out of me...!) but not in a bad way and never in ways that made me wish I had the old equipment back.
I've never regretted it for an instant. I knew by about a year on HRT that I couldn't stand living with a body that was perfectly aligned with my mind/gender except in this ONE way, and although I was scared to death and had some doubts (because it was a huge scary surgery and a major change), I was convinced I'd be happier afterward, and I was. I think you know yourself well enough by now to be sure that this is what you need, and there's absolutely no reason to think you might be mistaken just because other people have a different and more dominant story. :) You seem pretty convinced that this is what you need, and while a lot of the medical community (and sometimes the trans community) seems devoted to making us second-guess ourselves, those sorts of externally-provoked second thoughts are not a sign that you might regret this.
You should probably postpone SRS until all doubt is removed; there are stories of people who go through with the surgery even though they have some doubt, and are completely happy with their decision afterwards, however, there are also stories of people who go through with the surgery even though they have some doubt, and their lives become a living hell filled with misery and regret.
Kittenpower : That's better advice for people who are *capable* of achieving a state of no doubt, though. :) I doubt myself about what to have for breakfast, much less decisions like this; not everyone can ever be that certain about anything. So the trick is to know oneself well enough to know if this is the kind of doubt that's a red flag versus "typical worrying." That can be hard to do with the rest of the world weighing in to say that there's only one true way to feel, mind you...
Or put another way, if someone is already suffering, it's not useful advice to tell them that a decision might cause different suffering - the pain of living in limbo is also a variable to weigh when considering whether to make a change.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on October 03, 2015, 12:40:43 PM
Kittenpower : That's better advice for people who are *capable* of achieving a state of no doubt, though. :) I doubt myself about what to have for breakfast, much less decisions like this; not everyone can ever be that certain about anything. So the trick is to know oneself well enough to know if this is the kind of doubt that's a red flag versus "typical worrying." That can be hard to do with the rest of the world weighing in to say that there's only one true way to feel, mind you...
Or put another way, if someone is already suffering, it's not useful advice to tell them that a decision might cause different suffering - the pain of living in limbo is also a variable to weigh when considering whether to make a change.
Yeah, that's the thing, is that I don't know that I am capable of no doubt. I have anxiety. Which means, well, I overthink everything and second-guess myself on everything. And, well, I had these same "OMG do I REALLY know what the hell I'm doing? ME? Really legally a girl? PERMANENTLY?" freakouts right before going full-time and legally changing my name too. (To a lesser extent, though, since unlike surgery a name-change is reversible.) That's why I'm being a complete and total maven about this, looking for as much reassurance as I can find.
Right now I'm at about 85% sure, but I'm not sure that my mind's even capable of moving that statistic any higher.
And that's the thing, is that it's not because of any concrete reason that I have... it's more a case of me constantly thinking "what if I'm wrong?" and being terrified of that possibility, or "what if somehow in some way, even if I have yet to think of a single reason that I'd ever want to be male again, I'm still wrong, and after surgery I look back and miss that part that I hate right now because somehow I was wrong about why I hate it and why I want surgery and somehow there's some mythical self-acceptance method that I just haven't thought of yet that would make me be comfortable with it even though I can't see any right now? Maybe I'm wrong, maybe my mind isn't programmed to have one, maybe once the surgery is over somehow I'll want straight sex even though I've never wanted it before and my only experiences of it are me wishing I had a vulva the whole time."
That's just kind of how my mind works.
So again, I don't know if I'm even capable of 100% certainty. Which is why I'm looking for the experiences of others in my same place in terms of trans* feelings and sexual orientation, but who didn't have anxiety getting in the way of their decision-making.
Carrie : Yeah, I thought I remembered that you were a lot like me that way. :) If it helps, I knew that about myself enough to be able to say "well, this is as certain as I get about anything." (My wife actually said she'd never seen me be MORE certain about anything before, and that's what convinced her that I did want to transition.) If 85% is as good as it ever gets for you about major life decisions, then congratulations, you *are* sure.
The other thing is that we all grow and change, all the time. If we made all of our decisions based on whether or not we might one day change our minds after more years of living and changing... we'd never do a single thing. We'd be paralyzed by indecision until we starved to death or something. I know I'm being a little silly, but that's how I really think about this stuff : that the best I can ever do, personally, is say "I'm sure this is what I want right now, with all the evidence I have now, and if it turns out my future self changes her mind, well, I'll deal with that then." Who knows, I really might say something different when I'm 25 years post-op instead of 3, but I can't live my life NOW based on how I might feel then.
I'm not sure how old you are, but how many years post-puberty have you wanted this so far? I think that's a good sign that this, of all things, is something you've been pretty firm on until the rest of the world tried to convince you to doubt yourself (and for those of us already prone to do so, it's an especially nasty catch-22 when people try to make us question ourselves and then use the fact that it *worked* to invalidate our choices).
Thought I was somewhat feminine in my younger years, puberty hit me like a ton of bricks. I was uncomfortable with life but not so much uncomfortable with my body other than I wanted a few changes. The important deciding factors for me was in my second year of RLE I had live the life of a women long enough that I knew I would never return to the male role. If surgery wasn't available to me, I would continue living as I was. As for out comes, I am 33 years post surgical and have never had a moment of regret in those 33 years. Did I have doubts before surgery? Right up to the moment the lights went out. My first thought after surgery was I made the right decision.
Like me, ask yourself one question, what would it take to make me return to the male role. If you can't find anything, the surgery may be your best answer.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on October 03, 2015, 01:08:01 PM
I'm not sure how old you are, but how many years post-puberty have you wanted this so far? I think that's a good sign that this, of all things, is something you've been pretty firm on until the rest of the world tried to convince you to doubt yourself (and for those of us already prone to do so, it's an especially nasty catch-22 when people try to make us question ourselves and then use the fact that it *worked* to invalidate our choices).
I'm 29 years old. (30 next week.)
I started experiencing genital dysphoria pretty much as soon as puberty started, between ages 13-14, I had it SEVERELY bad for 5 years in a row, so badly that I tried to freeze it off in ice once. I became a Christian and started trying to pray away these desires when I was 20, and it did indeed lessen the amount of time that I dwelled on it, but I still kept experiencing genital dysphoria bad enough that I'd tuck myself with duct tape, and even tried to find a way that I could pee while tucked so that I could leave it on longer. And being with a girlfriend for the first time in my life at that age didn't calm these feelings, in fact they exacerbated them because being close to her body made me want it myself that much more. Once I started transition the desire got even stronger, and I had emotional breakdowns early in transition because the surgery was barred from me due to the full-time barrier. The thing is, though, even though I still badly wanted SRS, being on hormones has allowed me to actually enjoy my sexuality for the first time in my life. I used to hate every minute of it because I felt like a slave. Where now it's something I really enjoy, even if I do still wish the shape was different.
It's only very recently, after I'd been transitioning for 2 years or so, and was finally passable and full-time and past the phase where I was constantly on high alert constantly looking around to see whether people were staring at me or talking about me, that I started having any serious doubts. Mainly because it wasn't just a fantasy anymore, it was REAL. With REAL life-altering repercussions. Nonetheless, this has been a persistent desire for 16 years straight now, without a single gap where I would have said "no, I don't want it."
The only thing that makes me scared is that, well, testosterone did weird things to my mind sexually. There were a few other body-altering desires that I had for several years in a row which I'm REALLY glad I didn't follow through on, because they would have handicapped me for life. Those other obsessions went away once I started HRT, while the SRS desires didn't, but it still makes me scared that somehow I'm wrong, and that this is just an autoerotic fantasy that I shouldn't follow through on like all the anti-trans articles say, and that it's not really going to make me happier.
Quote from: Dena on October 03, 2015, 01:27:17 PM
Like me, ask yourself one question, what would it take to make me return to the male role. If you can't find anything, the surgery may be your best answer.
NOTHING. I was just looking at old videos last night, seeing what I used to look and sound like for the first time in several months, and it was hard to watch because I just couldn't bear thinking that I used to not only look like that, but was trapped like that. I gave myself a big hug and was just overcome with joy that I get to be me, because I love my soft huggable feminine body so much.
I wouldn't de-transition even if I was paid a million dollars, let alone by my own free will.
So yeah, I already know for sure I'm going to be transitioned, and be on HRT, forever. It's basically just now down to a matter of which genitals I want in that female body. I'm afraid of risking my sexuality, something that does indeed give me pleasure even though I always spend the whole time wishing I had a vulva instead, on something that I have no idea what will feel like in real life, I only have my own fantasies to go off of, and how can I possibly know if they're right or not?
Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 03, 2015, 02:19:23 PM
So yeah, I already know for sure I'm going to be transitioned, and be on HRT, forever. It's basically just now down to a matter of which genitals I want in that female body. I'm afraid of risking my sexuality, something that does indeed give me pleasure even though I always spend the whole time wishing I had a vulva instead, on something that I have no idea what will feel like in real life, I only have my own fantasies to go off of, and how can I possibly know if they're right or not?
Sorry I can't help you much on that one because mine remains untested in combat. I do know what you will feel will be different than what you feel now and the little bit I know, I think it will be better. It is also hard for me to judge because your surgery would be so much more advanced than mine. Exactly what it will feel like you will need to learn from some of the other girls with more current surgery.
Quote from: Dena on October 03, 2015, 03:23:01 PM
Sorry I can't help you much on that one because mine remains untested in combat. I do know what you will feel will be different than what you feel now and the little bit I know, I think it will be better. It is also hard for me to judge because your surgery would be so much more advanced than mine. Exactly what it will feel like you will need to learn from some of the other girls with more current surgery.
Well, I'm not even talking about "combat," I'm just talking about my own personal alone time.
And I have talked to friends who have had it, but the problem is that almost every single post-op girl I know personally was an early-discoverer and is almost exclusively attracted to men, so in their own minds it was a lot less optional and they had a lot fewer self-doubts. They never enjoyed their sexuality at all because their dysphoria was so strong that they didn't even want to look at it. So not much help in really giving me a comparable experience.
I do have one friend who like me was a pubertal-discoverer, and isn't exclusively attracted to men, and she has a LOT of issues. She is sad a lot of the time, and she's always telling me "surgery doesn't fix your problems," and when I asked her about whether she regretted it or not, she wouldn't say no, rather she said "it's not even worth thinking about, because even if I did regret it, what good does saying that do for me? Either way, I can't change it." She makes me scared. To be fair, she has a LOT more issues than I do, she was a cutter, and has a history of depression and anger issues, so she's still struggling with those same depression and self-worth issues, but still, I worry.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 03, 2015, 03:43:38 PM
Well, I'm not even talking about "combat," I'm just talking about my own personal alone time.
To me, that's the same thing
16 years of relentlessly wanting this, even when you tried desperately to find a way out of that. Close to two decades, and your entire adult life, of being dysphoric to a degree that never got better than "awful." I am not being flippant, but I think you have as strong a case as it's possible to have that you're likely to be happier without that thing down there. It's harder to see from inside it, but yeah, you've needed this for as long as you've known you're trans, and you've only started questioning once the rest of the chaos in your mind quieted enough for you to *have* the energy to second-guess yourself. I also think HRT tends to take the steam out of desires which were driven by libido, and as you've noted, those other desires went away but this one didn't (and is consistent with what many a trans woman does want),
I was 34 when I had GRS and had only wanted it for a year, year and a half. I hope that knowing that helps a little, and I'm happy to answer any questions you my have about functionality, as well. (I didn't want to get into TMI if you weren't asking for that, but I lost my virginity at 19 and had a happy and fulfilling sex life with a penis for ~12 years [I got married at 22, so it was a frequent occurrence, too]. I may be as good a comparison as you'll find of someone who was able to enjoy things that way for years and then got a chance to enjoy sex with a vulva and vagina - which is even about 1000x better. ;) )
well, If you don't mind my 2.8 cents thrown in even though I'm still pre op. I'm at the point of being able to do it when I push the go button. I'm one of the ones that started at 4 , but was hit by a train at puberty. Your imaginary vagina is exactly the same as me since puberty. I'm going through exactly what your going through right now. MY bigger problem is my age and whether it makes sense to do it. I constantly am thinking about this problem. I'm bisexual so that is another concern because that causes you to question the surgery. I find myself in a major mental war about this. In one sense it's easier for me because if I decide to not do it I have that much less time on earth to deal with this genetic mistake. I truly don't like what I have. My imaginary vagina has been part of me for so long I've gotten really good at imagining it. I've asked myself so many times now the past two and half years I've been in therapy for this on whether I would of actually have done the surgery when I was younger because of my interest in women and I honestly don't know. I know I be so much more proper with a vagina , but my sexual nature is causing a lot of conflict about it. I think were both in the same boat even though your stated at puberty and I started earlier.
Carrie, I imagine you've heard my story, but in case not, I first thought I might be trans at age 50. I never crossdressed, never hated my body, never wanted girl's toys, felt like a cis guy pretty much all my life (though I wished I could have a woman's body).
Take a look at the poll in the thread I started last spring: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,188956.0.html
There are all sorts of people who never wanted girl's toys, never hated their body, never thought they were anything other than cis. But the number one option that people checked was "I want/wanted surgery to bring my body in line with my identified gender". The need to restructure our bodies is much more widespread than all those other things.
FWIW, I'm glad I got the surgery. I'm p!$$ed that I can't seem to have O's any more and there's tenderness in a few places, but I get to be shaped the way I should, which makes it all (including $20+k out of pocket) worth it.
Responding to this not because I fit your profile (I knew since I was little, albeit I didn't cross dress often due engrained transphobia that somehow got pushed onto me at a very young age. Also I'm really not sure of my sexuality, albeit pre-transition I was definitely aroused by women sometimes). But because I literally had my vaginoplasty 5 DAYS AGO with McGinn and how I felt at the time right before I went under is still fresh in my mind.
First and foremost, let me make it clear that I tend to take a rational approach unless confronted with tremendous stress. So with that in mind, I don't believe it's worth talking about imaginary vaginas...I knew before surgery that I could not rationally imagine having a vagina. It's just impossible because you can't "shape your genitals into a vulva" without cutting away lots of tissue in a non-reversible fashion. However, when I looked at my junk the last time before surgery when changing into my OR gown...it was clear to me I have always been quite uncomfortable with what I had.
The moments before the surgery, what I was really thinking was: will there be complications, as well as, how will the pain be, and finally...what the hell will it feel like? I actually sat there for about two minutes in the prep room when Heather (Mcginn's PA) went over the complications list, the final form I had to sign, as that is quite frankly how I function in situations like that. I also made it super clear they should NOT sedate or "relax" me until I was being wheeled into the OR. I decided it was worth the risk, and to use the metaphor i specifically told my therapist, I jumped off the cliff, because staying on it didn't seem reasonable.
Afterwards, I felt relief for two reasons: Primarily A: I had the weight of the decision off my back. and also B: I was pretty sure I made the right one. I will note in pure honesty though, there was a single time in recovery I've had doubt about this, and that was when I was in enormous GI pain my third night in the hospital. I seriously felt like I was on the verge of death from bloating gas I was told I could not relieve as I was on super strict bed rest due to a minor hiccup in surgery (see my recent forum topic here (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,196455.0.html)), plus with no morphine to make it go away that night, with all my familial support back at the hotel, and not knowing what time it was in the middle of the night (I totally panicked, could not find my cell phone and the tv was off and out of reach), I'm guessing my survival instinct must've kicked in. The doubt went away completely though once I got even minor relief from the pain from a little extra Vicodin after the nurses finally came in. I probably should've just called them earlier (DO NOT BE AFRAID TO HIT THAT NURSE BUTTON EVEN IF YOU HAD NO LUCK WITH PREVIOUS ORDEALS WITH THE NURSES, which I did like 3X before that)...sigh.
Now, one more thing I can leave you with...you brought up imaginary vaginas. I'm not going to talk about those, but given I'm still quite newly pre-op, I still think I'm qualified to compare my new vagina to having a penis because I had one less than a week ago and those memories are fresh in my mind. Note: I have yet to see my vulva yet as its still under packing, but based on what I can feel from it, and based on Mcginn's stated technique.
A: (What I'm most sure of). The vaginal canal has minimal sensation, but I do feel a sensation on my prostate from the packing at the moment and it definitely feels like there is pressure with something occupying a new hole between my legs. Earlier during the first two days of recovery it felt like a watermelon was stuck up there, but now it feels semi-pleasant...albeit the level of pressure is going in and out and it gets uncomfortable at times. Relevant FYI/food for thought: McGinn orders a prostate exam in the pre-op physical. That was super uncomfortable, but I can assure you this feels absolutely nothing like that.
B: I think I can feel the penis skin around skin/mons curvature level, albeit split, right around where my vaginal opening should be. This part currently stings a little.
C: I can feel perineal skin around the floor of the packing.
D: I'm not sure about my clitoris atm, albeit I'm definitely feeling an intermittent sting from something that feels like it was once my glans penis, like the penile skin as well.
E: I believe she left some erectile tissue on the sides inside the vulva, because the pressure seems to increase in there when I get aroused, it's pleasant...yep, really!
So there's my current anecdote: take it as you may...
Hi Carrie, perhaps another way of looking at this might help. What if you don't do it? How are you going to feel every day over the next 5 years, or 10, or 50+?
I'd guess probably not too great.
That's what's been pushing me. Not so much hope at what's in front, but knowing I can't live like I am right now. Chances are its the right thing to do, and if not, well I'm stuck no matter what I do so there's no point in worrying about it.
85% seems like a pretty low number to go into it with, Like JessieBird said right before the moment of truth fear of complications can make you waver a little, so can post op pain, heaven forbid having complications.
Though I'm one of those always knew, hated sex has a bf types and I know what I am having for breakfast tomorrow so take my opinion with a spoon of sugar.
Quote from: AnonyMs on October 03, 2015, 10:41:42 PM
Hi Carrie, perhaps another way of looking at this might help. What if you don't do it? How are you going to feel every day over the next 5 years, or 10, or 50+?
I'd guess probably not too great.
That's what's been pushing me. Not so much hope at what's in front, but knowing I can't live like I am right now. Chances are its the right thing to do, and if not, well I'm stuck no matter what I do so there's no point in worrying about it.
I feel decent, honestly. Genital dysphoria is just a minor nagging distraction that's always there in the background but I'm pretty good at ignoring and tolerating what I have most of the time by this point.
The biggest thing that makes genital dysphoria become an issue is anything sexual. I don't like things touching my anatomy. I don't like being forced to use that anatomy for release. I don't like the physical process that it takes to get that release. And even though the release itself is fantastic, I imagine that I would actually be able enjoy to enjoy the rest of the process too, along with non-sexual things like snuggling that often involve dysphoria-inducing genital contact, if I had girl parts, because that's what my mind is always wishing was there, and always seeing as "sexy" and "romantic" in my own mind.
If I don't get it, if I'm being honest, I'd survive just fine. It's just that I'd always be dealing with dysphoria in the background whenever I'm dressed, still feeling sexually hindered because I simply hate the way my current genitals function, plus dealing with the emotional weight of that ever-nagging question, "what if I'd gotten it? Would I be happier right now?" I'm turning 30 years old next week. I still have many many years of my prime left. So there's just a bunch of added pressure where I'm either wasting it right now by not getting the surgery and letting myself remain in a body that I'm merely tolerating, or would be wasting it later because surgery still didn't fix the sex-organ self-image problem I thought it would fix.
And to answer the year question... 5-10 years I don't know. I'd still probably be merely tolerating my body, and always asking myself "what if?" (I'd probably be REALLY frustrated if I had, say, a hard medical limit that forced me to wait that long in order to get it. And honestly, I think one of the things that made my dysphoria so much worse earlier in transition was that feeling of being trapped with my present genitals with no control over them. Knowing that SRS was obtainable but I was barred from having it because I needed to get past the financial hurdle and the 1-year RLE barrier first was soul-crushing for me. It's only since I actually crossed those barriers, and now there's nothing stopping me, that I'm doubting.) But I could definitely see myself making it begrudgingly, even though I'd be REALLY frustrated that I couldn't have it for that long. But 50 years, I would simply HAVE to have it done by that point. I'm going to get it in my lifetime. That much is completely not in question. I've wanted it for too long, and am too damned curious, to not ever do it. It's just a matter of when. I have 50+ years of life ahead of me. I'm still in the prime of my youth. I want to know EXACTLY what would make me happy, so that I can live those years to the fullest.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on October 03, 2015, 04:18:04 PM
I was 34 when I had GRS and had only wanted it for a year, year and a half. I hope that knowing that helps a little, and I'm happy to answer any questions you my have about functionality, as well. (I didn't want to get into TMI if you weren't asking for that, but I lost my virginity at 19 and had a happy and fulfilling sex life with a penis for ~12 years [I got married at 22, so it was a frequent occurrence, too]. I may be as good a comparison as you'll find of someone who was able to enjoy things that way for years and then got a chance to enjoy sex with a vulva and vagina - which is even about 1000x better. ;) )
Thank you. That is EXACTLY the kind of response I was hoping to see, and it definitely eases my mind. To see that info from a post-op person, one who recognizes the same things in regards to genital dysphoria that I'm typing, discovered their transness even later than I did, and yet the results were an emphatic yes, is fantastic to see.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 04, 2015, 03:05:50 AM
I feel decent, honestly. Genital dysphoria is just a minor nagging distraction that's always there in the background but I'm pretty good at ignoring and tolerating what I have most of the time by this point.
The biggest thing that makes genital dysphoria become an issue is anything sexual. I don't like things touching my anatomy. I don't like being forced to use that anatomy for release. I don't like the physical process that it takes to get that release. And even though the release itself is fantastic, I imagine that I would actually be able enjoy to enjoy the rest of the process too, along with non-sexual things like snuggling that often involve dysphoria-inducing genital contact, if I had girl parts, because that's what my mind is always wishing was there, and always seeing as "sexy" and "romantic" in my own mind.
If I don't get it, if I'm being honest, I'd survive just fine. It's just that I'd always be dealing with dysphoria in the background whenever I'm dressed, still feeling sexually hindered because I simply hate the way my current genitals function, plus dealing with the emotional weight of that ever-nagging question, "what if I'd gotten it? Would I be happier right now?" I'm turning 30 years old next week. I still have many many years of my prime left. So there's just a bunch of added pressure where I'm either wasting it right now by not getting the surgery and letting myself remain in a body that I'm merely tolerating, or would be wasting it later because surgery still didn't fix the sex-organ self-image problem I thought it would fix.
Given my previous response, not that I really am I qualified to give a long term happiness review of my surgery as I haven't gotten there yet, but your second paragraph was also MY prime reason too after puberty, otherwise paragraph 1 was the other reason. Only difference between you and me is that I knew paragraph 1 since early childhood...
Even if communities like this seem to romanticize it, honestly I think that does more harm than good. I don't care what they tell you, for everyone, I'm positive that getting genital surgery is like getting on a rocket to begin a one-way trip to the Andromeda Galaxy. We have a slight idea what is there in the Andromeda Galaxy, but as we're so far away, nothing definitive. So, in the case of MTFs, you simply have to admit it, unless you have memories from in-utero before your genitals differentiated (and I don't know how you could), all you have ever really known is a penis and testicles between your legs and you can only estimate what it'll be like to have a vagina. Do not deny it, doing otherwise is a delusion, accept it as a given in your decision-making, period.
Regarding paragraph 3: There is a difference between being happy with yourself and tolerating yourself. You have to decide when and if the risk is worth the decision and if you are emotionally capable of shouldering any negative consequences. FYI: It took me 7 years of transition to get here and honestly, I think the main and only difference between simple social transition and this is the absolute finality of it. Social/hormonal transition is reversible/semi-reversible today, surgery is not. Otherwise the purposes of such actions (transitions) are the same; to go from trying to tolerate life to actually living it! So just ask yourself, are ready to leave earth (Penis-land) on a one-way trip to Andromeda (Vulva-land), which you can only really depict in your imagination (don't know much about) and own that decision for the rest of your life?
Hi Carrie,
Muah!! love ya girl.
I am a typical trans girl.
I don't have much to add, just like the way your thinking things through.. I had really never thought of not doing it.. to the point when someone said are you sure you want to have a vagina I got upset.. like what the hell.. yes I do.
I have a friend who likes girls and has no plan to do it..
Me I am doing SRS soon..
Good luck on your decision..Its amazing how we have to dig so deep to find our answers sometimes but it sure is nice to know ones self...
Love
Keri
ps and KID... you have plenty of time to think on it....your just a child..!
Haha Jenna Marie, I function so much like you ;D I'm never 100% sure of anything, always doubting (in a rather positive way). It's good to learn to make decisions (especially hard ones) without certainty. That's a part of me I really like.
I match the profile of this post, except I'm not post-OP yet. Planned for april with Chett.
- I always played with both boys and girls toys (favorites were plushies... tons of them @_@ )
- I never thought about being a boy or girl before adolescence.
- Even now honnestly I'm rather tomboyish (and I like it :P )
We should really stop with this sexist way of considering transpeople. Women comes out in a lot of different shapes. Liking dolls doesn't make you a woman. It just makes you a person who likes dolls. I'm not into dresses, makeup, vanity fair - or in fact anything a woman is supposed to be into. I'm fine with wearing men jean and men sweater until the end of my life. That's who I am. Male, female ? That's nonsense. The guy I'm in love with (I'm bi) reads vanity fair. Who cares ?
That aside, I have the EXACT same doubts as you. As Jenna Marie said : I'm 27, and I started looking into transition at 17. It's been 10 years. Sure I might change in the future, we all do. But never taking decisions is just going to make your life a boring hell. It's been 10 years, we can assume it's a fairly strong sensation. Plus I don't know for you, but when I started HRT 5 monthes ago, it made me totally happy. I felt complete with HRT - so much complete SRS seems like a detail.
And I was always a sexually active, not-at-all awkward cis male. I liked my beard. I liked my face. (not nearly as much as I like it now though :D ) I liked doing love with my wife. I really liked the sensation of penetrating her. The feeling of melting our bodies, curves against curves. Though now that I think about it, I don't think I really need my penis to feel that way about her. In fact I think it would work just as good, maybe even better, with a full woman body.
Anyway I never had any problem with my penis, though I never liked it much either. I masturbated and it felt good. It's just my penis. It will be removed and that's frightening me, but well, it's not like I like it enough to cry over it. It gave me quite a lot of good feeling with women though. That's life. It would be easier if everything was bad in being a boy, but as a lesbian, I found having a penis was quite fun. I wouldn't mind being a woman with a penis and I'm not that dysphoric about it.
But if I calm down and sit, close my eyes, have a deep breath, and feel my body - the sensations, the pleasure of being myself in my home - I feel that part is out of place. It's not natural. And that's the main thing, I guess. I don't hate that part of myself, but it feels out of place and it most likely always will.
HRT was EXACTLY how I thought it would be. I thought I would feel happiness in my body and I felt it. It wasn't life changing in a common definition. But it made my body feel right. I think SRS will do the exact same. I wasn't wrong the first time, I don't think I'll be wrong the second time.
So that's how I made a fast and maybe a little hasty decision to book SRS with Chett only 4.5 monthes after the beginning of my HRT.
My 2 cents. ;) Hope it helps.
I am a bit more "typical" but I think it is very common to have a strong increase in dysphoria when puberty hits. Especially body dysphoria basically is almost always coming on strong at that time for those it comes. Before puberty, the body of boys and girls is rather similar, so the dysphoria in that repect may only be centered around genitalia. One may feel a sense of not belonging to the boys, prefer girls as playmates or such - but that is all more or less the social component.
With puberty, sex differentation starts and feelings of wanting to have breasts, wider hips, a vulva and vagina emerge for those who have this teenage body dysphoria. It cannot really come earlier.
I definitely was also unsure about similar things - i had those phantom sensations you wrote about - and was unsure if it would really be as it felt in my head and mind. People kept telling me that transitioning is all about the social roles and being effeminate - but for me that was not it. I wanted my female body - breasts and vulva and vagina and all of that. And I must say I was not disappointed - my body felt so much more right with hormones doing their work and dysphoria changed slowly into temporary euphoria ;) - and GRS really made my genitals feel the way I had it in my head before the surgery. It matches rather well to the phantom sensations. Sadly I did not have the modern surgery that is available with Suporn and some others, who use homologous materials for the reconstruction, but had the classical "penile inversion" method done to me, which kind of makes some aspects of my vulva feel like it is still missing. But its not like there is something wrong, its just some things are still missing because they put them in the wrong place or even cut them. So make sure you get a homologour reconstruction method done if you really want your sensation afterwards to match your phantom feelings perfectly.
But of course, if you are in doubt - better wait and ponder. I did the surgery back then when I was about 80-90% sure i wanted to take the risk. The remaining 20% were some doubt about if it would feel as I imagined or fear if they would botch me. But hey - considering how wrong it felt before the surgery, I was pretty sure it would come much closer to how it should feel - the risk of being botched was one I had to take, this should be much much less now anyways if one chooses the right surgeon.
Quote from: anjaq on October 18, 2015, 06:17:41 PM
I am a bit more "typical" but I think it is very common to have a strong increase in dysphoria when puberty hits. Especially body dysphoria basically is almost always coming on strong at that time for those it comes. Before puberty, the body of boys and girls is rather similar, so the dysphoria in that repect may only be centered around genitalia. One may feel a sense of not belonging to the boys, prefer girls as playmates or such - but that is all more or less the social component.
With puberty, sex differentation starts and feelings of wanting to have breasts, wider hips, a vulva and vagina emerge for those who have this teenage body dysphoria. It cannot really come earlier.
I definitely was also unsure about similar things - i had those phantom sensations you wrote about - and was unsure if it would really be as it felt in my head and mind. People kept telling me that transitioning is all about the social roles and being effeminate - but for me that was not it. I wanted my female body - breasts and vulva and vagina and all of that. And I must say I was not disappointed - my body felt so much more right with hormones doing their work and dysphoria changed slowly into temporary euphoria ;) - and GRS really made my genitals feel the way I had it in my head before the surgery. It matches rather well to the phantom sensations. Sadly I did not have the modern surgery that is available with Suporn and some others, who use homologous materials for the reconstruction, but had the classical "penile inversion" method done to me, which kind of makes some aspects of my vulva feel like it is still missing. But its not like there is something wrong, its just some things are still missing because they put them in the wrong place or even cut them. So make sure you get a homologour reconstruction method done if you really want your sensation afterwards to match your phantom feelings perfectly.
But of course, if you are in doubt - better wait and ponder. I did the surgery back then when I was about 80-90% sure i wanted to take the risk. The remaining 20% were some doubt about if it would feel as I imagined or fear if they would botch me. But hey - considering how wrong it felt before the surgery, I was pretty sure it would come much closer to how it should feel - the risk of being botched was one I had to take, this should be much much less now anyways if one chooses the right surgeon.
Please tell me more about this "homologour"
Quote from: anjaq on October 18, 2015, 06:17:41 PM
I am a bit more "typical" but I think it is very common to have a strong increase in dysphoria when puberty hits. Especially body dysphoria basically is almost always coming on strong at that time for those it comes. Before puberty, the body of boys and girls is rather similar, so the dysphoria in that repect may only be centered around genitalia. One may feel a sense of not belonging to the boys, prefer girls as playmates or such - but that is all more or less the social component.
With puberty, sex differentation starts and feelings of wanting to have breasts, wider hips, a vulva and vagina emerge for those who have this teenage body dysphoria. It cannot really come earlier.
I definitely was also unsure about similar things - i had those phantom sensations you wrote about - and was unsure if it would really be as it felt in my head and mind. People kept telling me that transitioning is all about the social roles and being effeminate - but for me that was not it. I wanted my female body - breasts and vulva and vagina and all of that. And I must say I was not disappointed - my body felt so much more right with hormones doing their work and dysphoria changed slowly into temporary euphoria ;) - and GRS really made my genitals feel the way I had it in my head before the surgery. It matches rather well to the phantom sensations. Sadly I did not have the modern surgery that is available with Suporn and some others, who use homologous materials for the reconstruction, but had the classical "penile inversion" method done to me, which kind of makes some aspects of my vulva feel like it is still missing. But its not like there is something wrong, its just some things are still missing because they put them in the wrong place or even cut them. So make sure you get a homologour reconstruction method done if you really want your sensation afterwards to match your phantom feelings perfectly.
But of course, if you are in doubt - better wait and ponder. I did the surgery back then when I was about 80-90% sure i wanted to take the risk. The remaining 20% were some doubt about if it would feel as I imagined or fear if they would botch me. But hey - considering how wrong it felt before the surgery, I was pretty sure it would come much closer to how it should feel - the risk of being botched was one I had to take, this should be much much less now anyways if one chooses the right surgeon.
Thank you so much! :)
Great to have that experience as reassurance, and also great to have some very strong confirmation on my decision to go with Chettawut for that exact reason... that I want the materials to be as homologous to a cis vulva as possible.
I actually had a dream not too long ago where I was scheduled with an American surgeon but backed out at the last possible second because what I really wanted was the non-inversion technique.
By the way, since I made my last post in this topic 2 weeks ago, I've gotten a lot more sure about it.
Basically, as a part of me doing CBT for anxiety, I decided that if I'm going to be afraid "maybe there's SOME way that I could use my present anatomy which would cause me less dysphoria and I wouldn't need SRS anymore," I decided to test that possibility rather than just let the anxious fears fester in my head. So I bought a personal massager, to attempt doing things in a more "female" way, and I was consistently having trouble making the damned thing work for me. And the more and more I tried and failed, the more and more I couldn't do things in that "female" way, the more frustrated I got. It was agonizing for me to be unable to experience what people with vulvas experience. And then I saw people who actually were post-op on here talking about how they finally had a "female" experience there, and it was amazing, full-body. And when I yet again couldn't make the stupid thing work, couldn't even come remotely close to feeling anything close to what my mind is always telling me would be "female," I actually broke down and started crying.
It became pretty clear to me how strongly I feel about this after that episode.
Having my first meeting with a trans-experienced psychologist to start the process of getting my letters helped also. He says that I'm a good candidate, and that my reasons for wanting it are consistent with what he's heard from his many other trans clients who've had it.
So yeah, I'm probably up to 90%ish now on being sure about it.
i know i was fine until about 6 weeks before SRS. thats when my GD kicked in
Quote from: Serenation on October 18, 2015, 07:05:05 PM
Please tell me more about this "homologour"
Sorry - i meant homologous. Typo.
Basically it is what Suporn and some others do. They take the parts of the genitalia and put them in the place they should be . Every part of the male anatomy has a counterpart in the female anatomy and a proper reconstruction tries to place it all right. the old "penile Inversion" missed some parts and mainly focussed on the clitoris and outer labia, while it neglected the inner labia and other structures.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/10/23/f4/1023f4a40f1c5a5436787dda45ccaa2a.jpg)
Okay, make that doubt number now rapidly dropping close to 0.
I just found this video on Youtube.
And, well, this girl just gave me EXACTLY what I was looking for by making this topic. She described EXACTLY every single thing that I've personally felt in my life.
She started wanting SRS at the exact same age, she had the exact same "tucking" impulses and jealousy of women in athletic competitions that were a huge thing for me back in high school, she was going through the exact same anxieties about whether it would really be everything she wanted it to be, afraid of loss of sensation or complications or of somehow being wrong, she just described every single one of my sexual issues, every single one of the feelings I have about my anatomy, every single fantasy I ever had that was genital-related, every single reason I want SRS myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfDqqjvRAYA
She had her SRS 7 months ago. She's still gushing about how happy she is, how it really does feel exactly how she wanted it to, how it really did heal a lot of the envies she had when around other girls at the beach and in summery revealing clothes, how she doesn't have to feel that soul-crushing feeling of want/trapped anymore, she can just have fun.
I don't really think I'm having doubts anymore. I couldn't have hoped to find someone who more closely matched my experience in terms of how I've always felt about myself and why I've always wanted SRS, as well as the anxieties I was feeling about it.
I'm late to the party, but glad to see you're finding your answer with more certainty.
I just wanted to add that I am much like you in terms of having trouble feeling sure about anything if any room for doubt exists or if the evidence is less than conclusive. Giving a hard answer, even to myself, when I have any possible reason to think I might be incorrect is not something I can do easily. (That didn't work out so well when a cop asked what I had in the trunk of a rental car at a traffic stop.... but how could I know what the previous renter might have hidden there?)
So there's no way I'll ever say with certainty that I won't regret surgery, even though strong genital dysphoria was the main sign of my being trans for most of my life. But I am not uncertain about whether I will have it. How do I reconcile this? I like to think about what my concerns are, not just whether i have them.
My worries are that I'll have complications, or that I'll be unhappy with the appearance, or that it will be painful, or that it will be a burden on my family, etc. Concern about losing the equipment I have now, or being unhappy with having a new set does not register.
There is no way I can be sure that I won't regret the decision after it's made. If something goes wrong, I very well may wish I had made decisions that did not lead to that outcome. It's still hard to weigh those concerns against the benefits if a good result is achieved, but it's less emotionally involved. You can look at complication rates and do quantitative comparisons to get a sense for how risky it is, which is harder to do with questions about body image.
Well - yes, I think I went into the GRS with about 90% certainty that i will be ok. The remaining doubt was mostly about the surgery going wrong and a tiny bit still said that I can not really know if it will really be as I imagined it.
Well, it turned out that things did go bad, I had complications, and it took a long while to fix me - but I made it through and in the end it went well after all.
But I guess if you have the time and money, its good to make a wise and informed decision about the surgeon to minimize risk and maximize the chance for a great surgery outcome - there will always be a risk - but I guess thats something we have to take ...