I think I might have mentioned in a few of my post on how I like to believe that chivalry should still exist. But in this day and age, I'm not so sure this concept would even make sense now. I say that because with feminism, women want to be treated as equals and they should be. So to continue practicing chivalry with that aspect in mind, would turn it into chauvinism, because in reality, chivalry undermines a woman's ability to take care of herself and stand on her own.
What do you guys think? You dudes still believe in chivalry? What do you girls think? Do you gals also believe in chivalry? Is it still chivalry when I hold a door open for a woman even if she appeared capable enough to hold it open herself? Or would this, in reality, be chauvinistic of me because I am underestimating her independence by this "seemingly" selfless action of chivalry??? ???
~Nixy~
I don't think it would be chauvinistic but then where I live everyone holds the door for each other, men and women alike.
Good manner will never go out of style. Often a man will hold the door for me and I will thank him. If I am going through a door ahead of a man I will hold the door until he has control of it. Should his hands be full, I will hold the door until he has exited. It cost me little effort to be polite and maybe I will put a smile on somebodies face.
I like to think that chivalry is a matter of extending courtesy to all, regardless of age or gender. It becomes chauvinism when it's directed at women in such a way as to suggest that they're helpless or incapable.
Open doors for everyone, but don't take women's elbows and steer them, or try to take packages from them. (Oh, and... don't push in front of people to get to the door first so you can be the one to open it -- ya don't get points for that. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthefiringline.com%2Fforums%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fwink.gif&hash=fd49c1687b59c0ea097a7b4f1ed562a996fdaf5c))
"Do not do to others what you would not like yourself."
Agreed. You don't have to be an extreme gentleman to show a woman or anyone that you're kind. You do the the small things that you know might brighten their day, things you could still do even if you identified as anything besides a macho macho man.
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Quote from: Tysilio on November 16, 2015, 07:58:56 PM
I like to think that chivalry is a matter of extending courtesy to all, regardless of age or gender.
I think so too. Yeah, I like to look at it this way much better. :laugh:
~Nixy~
Gee, I hope I'm not seen as a chauvinist. But I like holding doors open for women, pulling out their chairs for them, tipping my hat (when I'm wearing one), standing up when they stand up. I don't do it all the time, as it is not always appropriate, particularly at work, but yeah - I want to be a gentleman.
Thomas
We need manners, stop. We should have the same manners for men and women, and they should always be good. That's what I think.
I've been taught to keep doors open for everyone, to stand up and leave my seat for older people or kids, to pull out the chair of the guest if there's only one of them and so on.
There's a difference between being a gentleman - or a gentlewoman - and having "chivalry." These things should be done for men and women alike.
I believe in treating everyone with kindness and respect, and showing good manners regardless of the gender of the person on the receiving end.
I just posted a thread about this.
I LOVE when guys engage in chivalry. Like it or not, we are different and as much as I'd like for women and men to be free of traditonal gender roles, if they choose to engage in chivalry there is nothing wrong with it.
After all, you're doing something NICE for someone, not degrading them. Where it gets chauvinistic is when a man insists when the woman says she is OK and can do it herself. If she can do something herself and wants to, by all means let her...
I hesitate to ask this, but given there are some biological differences between men and women, it would an interesting question as to where this will end up?
When the genders are equal, how will men and women interact? I'm pretty sure men are not going to interact with women like they do with men and visa versa. Or maybe I'm showing my age.
At the very least they want something from the other gender that they don't want from their own (usually). That's got to have some influence.
I keep being reminded of something I read, I do not recall where.
'Good manners are the oil of society'
Good manners are not chauvinistic, just the opposite. They are empowering for all.
I will and do stand on a bus/train for an elderly man, pregnant woman, or an infirm person. I'll give way to people in wheel chairs, no matter how young and fit they may be. I open doors for those who follow me both practically and figuratively.
That is not empowerment. It is being polite.
If you feel manners empower you than you are not practicing good manners. If your courtesy is rejected, that person does not understand what good manners mean.
I salute Vetrans, not because I agree with the war they may have served in (I may disagree totally with the politics) but they put their lives on the line; I salute that.
I do not give way to a person in a wheelchair because I feel sorry for them; they just need more room to manoeuvre than I do.
I will stand between a person being insulted or attacked and their aggressor(s), not because I am brave. Not because it is right. But because that person being attacked is figuratively; me.
As has just been said; Do unto others as you wish done to you; that is the whole of the Law.
Good manners are the oil of society.
Quote from: AnonyMs on November 17, 2015, 11:37:14 PM
When the genders are equal, how will men and women interact? I'm pretty sure men are not going to interact with women like they do with men and visa versa. Or maybe I'm showing my age.
I dunno, i think there's already moves towards that - like the door holding thing people are talking about here, it's become gender neutral, and there are married couples that don't share bank accounts or surnames or men that take their wives' names. Maybe hetero couples will borrow more from gay ones, where there is no set formula? How do agender and NB people interact with other humans? I think the way society is there might me more moves towards blending social roles... hopefully...
I know some cis women (or women that have never yet identified as trans at least ;) ) that behave in a more masculine way than many cis guys i know, interacting with them is like interacting with some guys... it could be a generational/ cultural thing though. But I'm more and more coming to the conclusion that there are no cis people that don't slightly borrow from the traditionally accepted opposite, they're just treated differently because they're doing these things as cis people and not as trans.
It's pretty simple I guess: help the weak or protect the innocent when they can't help themselves, and generally just be courteous and you will be chivalrous. If someone decides to have a hissy fit that you're helping them, let them lug that fridge freezer up the stairs themselves.
It's only chauvinistic when it is done to gain advantage or with the assumption that acting in a chivalrous way means that you are owed something--or when you insist on doing it when the woman makes it clear she is not interested. For example, I once dated a man who insisted on walking me to my front door from the car (when I presented as female), and he insisted on doing it even when I said that he didn't need to. He then went on and on about how he believed in chivalry, with an implication that it made him a better person and he should be appreciated for it. Well, guess what? I had made it clear that I wanted to walk that twenty feet BY MYSELF, and he LOST points by not taking into consideration my wishes. On the other hand, if he had offered and I said yes, he walked me to the door, and it was never mentioned again... THAT would be real chivalry. But there are too many guys out there who only act chivalrous because they think it will make them look like good guys, instead of doing it because the are sincerely good guys who care about and respect others.