The most urgent reason I want to start HRT is that I'm at the age where most guys in my dad's side of the family have started going bald, and I've read in a few places that estrogen can stop baldness. (I also want to start now for the other changes, but those can wait if necessary.) When I told my Mom about this, she asked me to turn up some evidence, and I can't remember where I found it. If anyone else has personal experience on the matter, could you post it here so I can show her that it is possible? Thanks!
Yes quite a few people report this.
Just a little secret:
in the moment you have an orgasm and ejaculate dht is released, a strong form of testosterone which is responsible for the from you mentioned symptoms.
There are techniques to avoid a release. One is pressing a spot on your perineum, between scrotum and anus, to avoid ejaculation (press softly...its further described on the internet... and all at your own risk :) ) .
hugs
DHT causes male pattern baldness. Pregesterone is a DHT blocker, which will slow/stop hair loss. There are ways to slow/stop male pattern baldness that doesn't require HRT. But yes HRT will do it... basically it drives down your testosterone levels to include DHT, and progesterone will promote hair growth. That's why pregnant women get super hair growth.
Google DHT and you'll find a zillion articles and papers on it, as well as a myriad of DHT Blockers.
Quote from: ThaliaNyx on December 04, 2015, 07:00:55 PM
The most urgent reason I want to start HRT is that I'm at the age where most guys in my dad's side of the family have started going bald, and I've read in a few places that estrogen can stop baldness. (I also want to start now for the other changes, but those can wait if necessary.) When I told my Mom about this, she asked me to turn up some evidence, and I can't remember where I found it. If anyone else has personal experience on the matter, could you post it here so I can show her that it is possible? Thanks!
It's not estrogen that stops male pattern baldness, but it is testosterone (specifically the converted DHT mentioned above) that causes it. Anti-androgens will generally slow/prevent MPB. Where estrogen steps in is to allow the hair follicle to grow for longer before going dormant and the hair falling out (which is why women are generally able to grow longer hair)
I am one of the lucky ones, I had a small bald patch, after years on E, blockers and surgery my bald patch is slowly filling in.
I was at my hairdresser on Thursday and they noted again that I had further regrowth, but it has been very slow.
I did look into a hair transplant but the cost was prohibitive, even for a small area.
Yes, extremely slow - I have baby fuzz where there was shine before... I have no idea if the fuzz will ever develop further. Maybe when I'm 80...
Quote from: Laura_7 on December 04, 2015, 07:07:39 PMin the moment you have an orgasm and ejaculate dht is released, a strong form of testosterone which is responsible for the from you mentioned symptoms.
I highly doubt this. Orgasm is one of the many pleasures of life, no sense in depriving ourselves of this natural pleasure. This is going too far, in my opinion.
Quote from: Harley Quinn on December 04, 2015, 07:29:10 PM
DHT causes male pattern baldness. Pregesterone is a DHT blocker, which will slow/stop hair loss.
Limited studies have shown that prOgesterone inhibits conversion of testosterone to DHT (dihydrotesterone) BUT the levels are extremely high and supraphysiological AND it was done in-vitro. It's highly unlikely, I think, that progesterone has any significant effect at the levels we get.
QuoteThat's why pregnant women get super hair growth.
Women sometimes get increased hair growth because of the high levels of estradiol (most potent form of estrogen) that prolong the anagen (growing) phase of hairs.
QuoteGoogle DHT and you'll find a zillion articles and papers on it, as well as a myriad of DHT Blockers.
Search pubmed and google scholar for scientific articles about DHT. You are more likely to find accurate information about DHT.
Quote from: Ms Grace on December 05, 2015, 12:02:30 AM
It's not estrogen that stops male pattern baldness
Estrogen can stop or prevent further male pattern baldness (MPB) because it will reduce testosterone levels (and hence DHT levels) while also having effects inside tissues that reduce DHT potency.
Well both my younger brothers have gone bald and I haven't so there must be something in being on HRT :D
If you are pre-op and you have MPB in family, you need to take Dutasteride (or less recommended: high dose of Finasteride). When you are post-op, you should have S-DHT levels checked quite regularly for the first two years. This is the only way to know whether you need to take any DHT blocker or not.
Progesterone is practically useless against DHT conversion if you are pre-op. But it might be useful post-op for those who have slightly above average levels (not above female range... above female average). Its only something bloodtests will tell you.
Quote
in the moment you have an orgasm and ejaculate dht is released, a strong form of testosterone which is responsible for the from you mentioned symptoms.
Quote from: KayXo on December 05, 2015, 07:09:18 AM
I highly doubt this. Orgasm is one of the many pleasures of life, no sense in depriving ourselves of this natural pleasure. This is going too far, in my opinion.
Lets do this step by step.
This is old knowledge and it took me also a while to find out.
Its old tantric knowledge.
Orgasm and ejaculation are seperate.
You can have orgasms without ejaculation.
Together with ejaculation dht is released.
This is proven in studies showing raised levels of dht.
There is one technique where a spot on the perineum, between scrotum and anus, is pressed slightly to hold in ejaculation.
Look it up, its a common technique. As said at your own risk (don't press too strong... watch your fingernails... etc).
Orgasms are not as strong this way.
But the dht release is strongly diminished.
I would presume if you are a while on hrt there is also less dht released anyway.
There is also very few active sperm after some time, so there are not as many active ingredients as without hrt.
hugs
Quote from: Laura_7 on December 05, 2015, 10:17:33 AM
Together with ejaculation dht is released.
This is proven in studies showing raised levels of dht.
Please provide links.
Quote from: Lagertha on December 05, 2015, 08:19:48 AM
If you are pre-op and you have MPB in family, you need to take Dutasteride (or less recommended: high dose of Finasteride). When you are post-op, you should have S-DHT levels checked quite regularly for the first two years. This is the only way to know whether you need to take any DHT blocker or not.
Finasteride might not even be needed if your T levels are low due to estrogen/anti-androgens but if you see start of baldness despite it, one can add it. Studies have shown minute doses to be as effective as larger doses in reducing scalp tissue DHT levels. Dutasteride is quite expensive and the added benefit, IMO, is not worth the cost unless you are covered by insurance. Finasteride and dutasteride might trigger anxiety/depression in some due to lowering levels of allopregnanolone.
QuoteProgesterone is practically useless against DHT conversion if you are pre-op. But it might be useful post-op for those who have slightly above average levels (not above female range... above female average).
The science so far does not support the claim that progesterone at levels in us, inhibits DHT significantly.
Quote from: Lady Smith on December 05, 2015, 07:16:59 AM
Well both my younger brothers have gone bald and I haven't so there must be something in being on HRT :D
Genetics that influence hair growth and loss are predominantly on the x chromosome. This means you have a 50-50 chance of having the same hair genetics as your brother and a 50 50 chance of having something completely different. You also have a 50 50 chance of sharing the same x chromosome as your mother's brothers,so they also provide a fair indicator for hair retention.
Quote from: KayXo on December 05, 2015, 12:40:06 PM
Finasteride might not even be needed if your T levels are low due to estrogen/anti-androgens but if you see start of baldness despite it, one can add it. Studies have shown minute doses to be as effective as larger doses in reducing scalp tissue DHT levels. Dutasteride is quite expensive and the added benefit, IMO, is not worth the cost unless you are covered by insurance. Finasteride and dutasteride might trigger anxiety/depression in some due to lowering levels of allopregnanolone.
The science so far does not support the claim that progesterone at levels in us, inhibits DHT significantly.
Not from my personal experience... but I personally know somebody (also we go to same endocrinologist) who had several blood tests for S-DHT done after their surgery. Slightly elevated DHT levels (still in female range) in first three tests (between 2-8th post-op months) were lowered to the lower female range after addition of bioidentical progesterone (measured in 2 additional blood testes). We might not be able to call this scientific proof, but it worked for someone.
Whether finasteride or dutasteride is needed can be shown with blood tests, or by hairloss. I suggest blood test :) Personally I didnt want to take any chances (three sides of family with MPB) and have been taking dutasteride daily since I started HRT. And luckily its free here with prescription.
Quote from: KayXo on December 05, 2015, 12:40:06 PM
Please provide links.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7773040
Serum DHT concentration was the only independent hormonal predictor of the frequency of orgasms; an increase in concentration of 1.36 nmol/l (about 2 SD) corresponded to an average increase of one orgasm a week.
They do not differentiate between orgasm and ejaculation (its the same for them, which it isn't).
This is just one study. There are others.
YES. Yes, HRT DEFINITELY does completely stop hair loss in its tracks, and can even reverse about your last 5-7 years of hair loss. Male-pattern baldness is completely dependent on a hormone called Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) which is synthesized in the body from testosterone. If you take the testosterone away, the DHT will go away with it, because there'll be nothing for the body to create DHT from anymore.
(Baldness drugs like propecia and avodart are both DHT-blockers, which prevent the converstion of testosterone into DHT.)
And this is also why cis women tend to not get MPB, (they have almost no DHT because they have 1/10 the amount of testosterone as men do,) and why trans men often deal with hair loss after going on T.
And yes, I did indeed say that going on HRT and getting the DHT out of your system can REVERSE some hair loss.
Why is this? Because DHT does eventually kill the hair follicle. But it takes it a long time to do it. There's a process where first DHT slowly weakens the hair follicle, but doesn't kill it, it just renders it inactive. You can usually tell where hair has been weakened but not killed because if you look right along your hairline there will be patches where there are still small blond hairs that look like vellus hairs. Those hair follicles are not dead, just inactive. If the patch is smooth and shiny, the hair follicles are dead. Any patch that is merely inactive, once the DHT is removed, will slowly recover. It can take 3-5 years once the DHT is removed for it to fully recover, but slowly it will. The wispy blond hairs will slowly turn back into fully-growing dark hairs.
And I can DEFINITELY personally attest to this.
Before I started HRT, I was dealing with VERY bad hair loss for a 27-year-old, which has significantly reversed. I haven't regrown all of my hair, and never will, because my hairline corners started receding when I was a teenager, but the back has almost completely grown back (I went from having a visible half-bald spot to barely being able to see it,) the thickness has REALLY improved, and, well, I'll just show you.
Pre-HRT, my hairline looked like this:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi67.tinypic.com%2F33dkw3m.jpg&hash=71f2206185deb5a2fbc40d2e58b18caeb162cd7a)
Compare that hideously-receded mess to my current hairline, and it's pretty obvious that hormones are magic, especially when most of your hair loss is recent (again, within the last 5-7 years.)
Also, as a reply to this post:
Quote from: Laura_7 on December 05, 2015, 01:17:11 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7773040
Serum DHT concentration was the only independent hormonal predictor of the frequency of orgasms; an increase in concentration of 1.36 nmol/l (about 2 SD) corresponded to an average increase of one orgasm a week.
They do not differentiate between orgasm and ejaculation (its the same for them, which it isn't).
This is just one study. There are others.
Does that study actually show that orgasm releases DHT? To me, it looks more like it's saying that higher DHT levels are a predictor of increased sexual activity. Like, I don't think it's saying "orgasm more and you'll increase your DHT levels," I think it's more saying "having higher DHT levels makes you want to have sex more."
Quote from: Carrie Liz on December 05, 2015, 02:15:01 PM
Does that study actually show that orgasm releases DHT? To me, it looks more like it's saying that higher DHT levels are a predictor of increased sexual activity. Like, I don't think it's saying "orgasm more and you'll increase your DHT levels," I think it's more saying "having higher DHT levels makes you want to have sex more."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12506329#
Ejaculation was the premise and beginning of the 7 days' periodic phenomenon. If there was no ejaculation, there was no periodical changes in serum testosterone level. These results indicate that the periodic change in serum testosterone level is caused by ejaculation.
Quote from: Laura_7 on December 05, 2015, 02:33:44 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12506329#
Ejaculation was the premise and beginning of the 7 days' periodic phenomenon. If there was no ejaculation, there was no periodical changes in serum testosterone level. These results indicate that the periodic change in serum testosterone level is caused by ejaculation.
I'm still confused. ??? That one seems to show that ejaculation drops T levels, and it takes 7 days of abstinence for them to reset to their highest mark of 145% above the baseline, at which point it stops increasing and remains constant. (And I'm curious about this, because if orgasm increases T production, I want to know about it, because it might be affecting a lot of us who do NOT want T in our systems...)
They show a change in t levels after ejaculation.
Imo this is from a conversion from testo to dht.
This can be prevented as stated above by pressing a certain spot on the perineum.
DHT is a strong form of testo and can prevent some feminization.
hugs
Could explain why having sex more used to increase my level of dysphoria. Any increase in T used to make me feel like my brain was being murdered.
Quote from: ThaliaNyx on December 04, 2015, 07:00:55 PM
The most urgent reason I want to start HRT is that I'm at the age where most guys in my dad's side of the family have started going bald, and I've read in a few places that estrogen can stop baldness. (I also want to start now for the other changes, but those can wait if necessary.) When I told my Mom about this, she asked me to turn up some evidence, and I can't remember where I found it. If anyone else has personal experience on the matter, could you post it here so I can show her that it is possible? Thanks!
I have to say that all my family the men have gone balled. and they are all 6 foot plus tall. My self I'm the oldest and have a twin sister. I'm only 5'3" tall and weight wise half of what my two brothers are. I don't know if that I didn't transition years ago if I would have gone balled or not but I'm very lucky and have a full head of hair. But then again I have fully transitioned but i did not have SRS till this year.
Hugs and Good Luck :angel:
Lyndsey
Quote from: Lagertha on December 05, 2015, 01:00:34 PM
Not from my personal experience... but I personally know somebody (also we go to same endocrinologist) who had several blood tests for S-DHT done after their surgery. Slightly elevated DHT levels (still in female range) in first three tests (between 2-8th post-op months) were lowered to the lower female range after addition of bioidentical progesterone (measured in 2 additional blood testes). We might not be able to call this scientific proof, but it worked for someone.
Interesting. Could be the passage of time as well but also or exclusively due to P. Further studies must be done on this and more feedback from women.
QuoteWhether finasteride or dutasteride is needed can be shown with blood tests, or by hairloss. I suggest blood test :)
Hairloss would suffice because individuals' sensitivity to DHT varies so that even higher levels in one cause no problems while it does in another or low levels still cause problems in someone predisposed.
BTW, I just came across a paper showing that in frontal scalp tissue, there is less alpha types 1 and 2 reductase in women vs. men suggesting perhaps that increased estrogen and lower androgen decrease these enzymes responsible for conversion of T to DHT. Also, it was shown that estrogen (in study, 17-alpha estradiol) increases aromatase in human hair follicles thus diverting androgen to convert more to estrogen and less to DHT.
In simple terms, this suggests estrogen also may have anti-DHT properties in tissues directly. Estrogen also apparently reduces androgen receptors.
Quote from: Laura_7 on December 05, 2015, 01:17:11 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7773040
This study only suggests that DHT is conducive to orgasm not that orgasm increases DHT levels. ;)
Quote from: Carrie Liz on December 05, 2015, 02:15:01 PM
Does that study actually show that orgasm releases DHT? To me, it looks more like it's saying that higher DHT levels are a predictor of increased sexual activity. Like, I don't think it's saying "orgasm more and you'll increase your DHT levels," I think it's more saying "having higher DHT levels makes you want to have sex more."
Exactly! This is precisely why I asked she provide the studies. We need to interpret data correctly, sensibly, objectively and logically not according to what we want to perceive.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on December 05, 2015, 02:46:01 PM
I'm still confused. ??? That one seems to show that ejaculation drops T levels, and it takes 7 days of abstinence for them to reset to their highest mark of 145% above the baseline, at which point it stops increasing and remains constant. (And I'm curious about this, because if orgasm increases T production, I want to know about it, because it might be affecting a lot of us who do NOT want T in our systems...)
Quote from: Laura_7 on December 05, 2015, 02:33:44 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12506329#
Ejaculation was the premise and beginning of the 7 days' periodic phenomenon.
Not a clear cut study in my opinion, not well explained. But even if the case were that, I could care less. I love orgasms and I'm not gonna start obsessing about ejaculating and what not. This goes too far. We are getting a little carried away, don't you think??!
Quote from: KayXo on December 05, 2015, 10:11:51 PM
Not a clear cut study in my opinion, not well explained. But even if the case were that, I could care less. I love orgasms and I'm not gonna start obsessing about ejaculating and what not. This goes too far. We are getting a little carried away, don't you think??!
Well to dispute centuries old knowledge because there are not exactly conclusive studies at hand is not what I'd do.
Its very well possible to differentiate between orgasms and ejaculation.
Especially on hrt orgasms get more "female" with much less ejaculation.
So having this effect before hrt makes a lot of sense to me.
Its not much to press a certain spot.
hugs
I can't get rid of the mental image of hair ejaculating out of the scalp in the same instant that ejaculation happens down below ;)