Hey folks! It's been a while since I posted, and I hope you guys can help me out.
I've been transitioning for over a year now and I started looking at FFS surgeons lately but I keep doubting myself about what I need done. I'm having a real difficult time deciding what changes would help feminize my face and help with passability, and what's just extra. I really want to get through this surgery by spring or summer before school but not before I'm dead certain on what I need.
I've gotten Virtual FFS recommendations and a consultation with Dr. Spiegel already and I have two more with Dr. Zukowski and Facial Team coming up. What I really could use right now is some second (and third and fourth :P) opinions.
With my first consult, I was really looking for some direct recommendations but Dr. Spiegel isn't the pushy type so he left a lot of it up to me. After talking to him, I still don't feel like I really know what I need to feminize my face and what's extra. I love his work but it's so pricey and I don't want to risk having a procedure I might not need for feminization.
Anyway, I'm certain my forehead and brows, my nose and my trachea need work. I have a pretty prominent brow ridge that's been my bane since I started transitioning. I don't know how feminizing a rhinoplasty will be, but I never liked my humped nose anyway. No real questions about that. These 3 procedures are 100% getting done in my mind.
I've gotten mixed opinions about my hairline. The VFFS suggested it was a big problem, but my friends and mom don't seem to think my hairline is a big deal. I don't know if its just the camera making me look worse or the fact that I always hide the corners of my hairline.
I'm very borderline on my jaw. I feel like it could use some improvements. The back of it is very angular and my chin is kinda big. At the same time, I'm worried it might not make that much of a difference in feminizing my face. Also jaw surgery really freaks me out more than any of the other procedures in FFS with the recovery seeming so much worse. I'm also scared if I don't get jaw work done the first time I'll have to go through this whole ordeal again later if I'm still not quite passable.
As for any other procedures I'm not really sure at all.
So what does everyone think? I'd love some feedback.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FKeiF46u.jpg&hash=8adebfabfc1956465dc595bd3315ed6e5a332435)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F4PXOtex.jpg&hash=05ccbaacbe02e924a65301f4bc8b8b7f27aead78)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FLzXbIIQ.jpg&hash=bfd3684e44e56f649c4f01e25c755d668465f9e1)
Hair up:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FIZL1zdp.jpg&hash=22eca226a74544fb4b940563c56009615c639ff3)
Since a lot of people are asking for it, here's a true profile picture:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FyopaX5T.jpg&hash=b07cffc2fb525ebd8703a8b1fb6c0cc1229fe795)
Your face looks pretty feminine already but I can can understand what you have in mind. They would improve you appearance but I am not sure they would feminize you much because you are already passable The nose would be reduced in size as the result of the surgery and should be turned up a small amount. That would help it blend in with your face better.
The brow also makes sense to do at the same time. I don't really see a problem with the jaw and maybe you should leave it alone.
Hi Nevara,
You actually look really pretty without surgery, I'm jealous :) I thought I would give my opinion for what it's worth. First, how feminine do you want to be? Because right now you have an androgynous-female look that actually is very pretty. But I suppose you have to consider how you feel inside, whether you want to look as feminine as possible. If you do want to look as feminine as possible, then I think you should go to Facial Team because they can do a coronal incision type 3 with hair transplant which would give you a beautiful and feminine hairline with no scars. As for your jawline, I think it actually looks nice from the side profile but a little wide from the front. So that's up to you, I would get it done if I were you but nothing drastic. Your jaw isn't a big deal but your chin is a little big and you'll need jaw tapering if they do a sliding genioplasty to make it smaller.
Dr. Z doesn't do type 3 so I wouldn't recommend him. Dr. Spiegel is really good though, as are DiMaggio or Rossi. The best would be Ousterhout/Deschamps Braly. But I hope the Facial Team consultation works out well.
- Ruby
Quote from: Dena on December 07, 2015, 09:40:34 PM
Your face looks pretty feminine already but I can can understand what you have in mind. They would improve you appearance but I am not sure they would feminize you much because you are already passable.
It's more of a 50-50 whether I get gendered male or female at first glance most of the time. Although I do dress pretty androgynously most of the time, jeans, t-shirt, that sort of thing.
I just feel like my forehead specifically looks masculine. From the VFFS pics I got back, just fixing my brow bossing was improvement to my face's femininity. I was really surprised at how much of a difference it made and it sold me on getting my forehead fixed up.
Quote from: RubyAliza on December 07, 2015, 10:10:31 PM
Hi Nevara,
You actually look really pretty without surgery, I'm jealous :) I thought I would give my opinion for what it's worth. First, how feminine do you want to be? Because right now you have an androgynous-female look that actually is very pretty.
Thanks! I definitely want to look a little more feminine than I do now. I still get gendered male from time to time and it's a painful reminder every time it happens. I'd like to be able to get away with dressing androgynously and still get gendered female.
So far I'm leaning towards Dr. Spiegel. I really liked the results I saw from him and he does full forehead reconstruction as well. Do you know if that's any different from Facial Team's method when it comes to the hairline? That's not something that came up in detail when I talked to Dr. Spiegel.
Agree with you on the chin, that's probably what I don't like the most of my bottom half of my face.
Being androgynous and gendered female is difficult for trans women prior to ffs because there's more masculine aspects than just the face. Sure, women can have features that are traditionally seen as masculine, they just very rarely come together in a number and way that makes people misgender them on a regular basis or even question their gender (if I knew I wasn't completely female looking, I wouldn't assume not being misgendered = not being clocked, but obviously if that's not a factor to you whatever).
Another thing is balance, which people here seem to forget about often. You have a large jaw and chin. Getting your mid and upper face reduced is going to make your lower face completely overpower them, i.e. cause a noticeable imbalance. Also, from your current face I wouldn't be inclined to say you need an upper lip lift, but get a feminizing rhinoplasty and hello lip lift. Also, a rhinoplasty is feminizing not only because it makes the nose smaller and more refined, but because it creates more open feminine angles to where the nose meets the rest of the face.
That being said, from a feminizing standpoint, I think you need forehead, nose, jaw, and chin. It's difficult to really say if your cheeks could use help, because you're not completely relaxing your face, for example you're raising your eyebrows, doing things with your mouth etc. and you don't have a relaxed open mouth photo, so I can't tell how much of your upper teeth are covered by your top lip, however I'd say you probably would benefit from a lip lift. This sounds like a lot, but it doesn't have to be. For example, the shape of your chin and jaw is enviously beautiful, gorgeous, but it's just too tall. I would ask the doctor to keep the overall model shape, but reduce the height of the jaw and tallness of the chin, so they reach female proportions (but not necessarily extremely female proportions) and so that in full profile view (which you have given us) the line from the jaw angle to the chin point is completely straight. But that's just my love of nicely shaped jaws! I've considered implants so often for that effect haha! Obviously the chin would need to be contoured to get rid of the male bulbousness in frontal view. I also think you would benefit from some fat grafting to the temples. Your hairline is fine, but if you're dong forehead anyway, you might as well get it feminized.
I think Forehead and Nose will make a big impact. Whether the jaw/chin will keep you from passing is hard to tell. But i think doing full FFS by someone like Speigel or Facial Team will probably make you stunning. It's definately a lot to recover so you have to take all that into consideration.
I'm also on the fence about doing lower jaw/chin work for the same reasons as you. I'm not entirely convinced if it will give me feminization over just aesthetic beauty and balance. But part of me is saying "If i'm going to do this, I might as well do it right, and get it all done!"
In terms of hairline, you may benefit from some transplants to your corners. I'm seeing a squarish hairline when you pull your hair back.
Anyway you can post a true 90 degree profile pic? it would help in showing the full extent of any brow bossing. thanks
Quote from: BellaSwan on December 08, 2015, 03:35:11 AM
It's difficult to really say if your cheeks could use help, because you're not completely relaxing your face, for example you're raising your eyebrows, doing things with your mouth etc.
Exactly this. You are not showing us fully relaxed face, you are showing a lot more staged face. Most people do this, because they choose the pics they like the most, which is almost never the ones with fully relaxed facial expression. Fully relaxed is the one which gives the most realistic view. And like deeiche said, 90° profile with hair tied back would be better for more fair observation. Because of "staged" (for the lack of better word) expression, we cant say for shure whether it would be benefitial or not to have cheek implants, or upper lip-lift.
If I would be deciding instead of you I would definitely go for:
- Forehead reconstruction (type3) (with orbital reduction & slight eyebrow lift)
- Rhinoplasty - ridge and radix reduction, and raising and shortening of the tip.
- Chin height reduction and lateral ridge reduction
- Jaw height reduction and lateral reduction at mandibular angle (depends on shape after height reduction)
I cant see whether you need tracheal shave or not.
For hairline I would recommend you choose the combination approach, coronal incision in the front to raise hairline a bit in the middle; and hairline incision at the corners which would help to close the corners as much as possible. After 6 months or later you could go for a little hair transplant to fill in the corners and cover the scars in corners. I wouldnt recommend doing immediate hairtransplant (like Facial team offers). It makes much more sense to surgically close as much as possible and later just use little hairtransplant (if needed at all) at one third or one fifth of the price that Facial team charges to you.
For forehead and orbital: it depends on how drastic change you are looking for. Dr. Spiegel and Facial team are very conservative in forehead feminization despite using "type3" approach. They will both usually just remove the bossing at the sinus, and make everything smooth, with as little shaving as needed. Therefore consequently they also arent as aggressive on orbital ridge reduction as it could be possible. Dr. Di Maggio is by far the most aggressive surgeon for upper face, out of all. Dr. Ousterhout and now Deschamps Braly are also more aggressive than quite conservative Spiegel and Facial team. What Di Maggio and Ousterhout&Deschamps-Braly are able to do, Spiegel and Facial team arent. MDM and Ousterhout-Braly duo are able and willing to do complete set-back of whole lower forehead third, or half, and not just remove bossing, and make everthing smooth and flat, but create that ideally-feminine curved forehead. Which doesnt necessarily work with every face type. Which forehead shape will work ideal for you largerly depends on the other facial features and balance as a whole. Without seeing 90° profile I cant say which shape of forehead would be possible and would work best for you. I would definitely recommend you stay away from only shaving and filling technique that dr. Zukowski and some other plastic surgeons do.
Quote from: Lagertha on December 08, 2015, 09:26:46 AM
Exactly this. You are not showing us fully relaxed face, you are showing a lot more staged face. Most people do this, because they choose the pics they like the most, which is almost never the ones with fully relaxed facial expression. Fully relaxed is the one which gives the most realistic view. And like deeiche said, 90° profile with hair tied back would be better for more fair observation. Because of "staged" (for the lack of better word) expression, we cant say for shure whether it would be benefitial or not to have cheek implants, or upper lip-lift.
SNIP
I know it's tough to show worst case look, relaxed face with no makeup. But if you are asking for suggestions it is best to have a non-prepped look. You want to know what procedures should you consider to look good when someone comes to the door when you are wearing dress down clothing, with no makeup. Not how you would look when you are getting ready for a great night on the town.
Quote from: deeiche on December 08, 2015, 11:14:48 AM
I know it's tough to show worst case look, relaxed face with no makeup. But if you are asking for suggestions it is best to have a non-prepped look. You want to know what procedures should you consider to look good when someone comes to the door when you are wearing dress down clothing, with no makeup. Not how you would look when you are getting ready for a great night on the town.
I think that when sending pictures to surgeon its ideal to send both, completely relaxed, and more expressive pics. Even better if you can add short video.
When I sent mine pics to surgeon for evaluation I sent him as relaxed face as I could, with the most horrible most revealing light conditions. He was quite surprised when we met in person, because I looked way better and way younger in reality than on photos I sent him. So maybe its not ideal to only send them the boring serious looking relaxed face pics, but also a few pics which you like.
Everyone's asking for a profile pic, so here's the one i used for VFFS. About as unflattering as it gets. :(
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FyopaX5T.jpg&hash=b07cffc2fb525ebd8703a8b1fb6c0cc1229fe795)
Quote from: Lagertha on December 08, 2015, 11:30:24 AM
When I sent mine pics to surgeon for evaluation I sent him as relaxed face as I could, with the most horrible most revealing light conditions.
I try to send both to surgeons. I send the standard front/45/side shots with hair tied up and then a few natural photos. I know they are more interested in bone structure than how I look at my worst, but I feel like those shots look nothing like how I regularly look day-to-day.
Quote from: BellaSwan on December 08, 2015, 03:35:11 AM
Another thing is balance, which people here seem to forget about often. You have a large jaw and chin. Getting your mid and upper face reduced is going to make your lower face completely overpower them, i.e. cause a noticeable imbalance.
For example, the shape of your chin and jaw is enviously beautiful, gorgeous, but it's just too tall. I would ask the doctor to keep the overall model shape, but reduce the height of the jaw and tallness of the chin, so they reach female proportions (but not necessarily extremely female proportions) and so that in full profile view (which you have given us) the line from the jaw angle to the chin point is completely straight.
You really captured my thoughts about my jaw. I like the shape too, just wish it were smaller. I haven't thought about the imbalance after my forehead gets reduced but you might be right.
Quote from: Nevara on December 08, 2015, 01:26:55 PM
Everyone's asking for a profile pic, so here's the one i used for VFFS. About as unflattering as it gets. :(
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FyopaX5T.jpg&hash=b07cffc2fb525ebd8703a8b1fb6c0cc1229fe795)
SNIP
Thanks for the profile, it reminds me of mine pre-surgery (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,196400.msg1754616.html#msg1754616). If a Type III forehead ( which is what I think your is )procedure is done a rhinoplasty should be performed to align it with the new forehead, though in some less aggressive Type III procedures you can do rhinoplasty at a different time. I had rhinpoplasty done at the same time because my forehead was setback ~ 2cm.
I think your cheeks look good, also your chin projection, but agree with other posts regarding chin height.
First of all, your skin is beautiful and your bone structure is amazing! Had you been born the way you should, girl, you'd be a model.
Your forehead doesn't really need much, I.e. If you have thick bones covering your sinuses I think a shaving approach could work for you, as there doesn't seem to be a forehead "dip" in the center, and your forehead doesn't really protrude much (you should have seen mine, I didn't have a bulging brow ridge and was stealth before forehead surgery but my entire forehead, from the hairline and down, was just so far out and straight - Dr Suporn worked magic on me!)! At the hairline your forehead is quite far back, so burring might be enough, but you'll need an X-Ray to know for sure, and if not whatever, because type 3 just gets better results anyway in my opinion.
Your nose will be easy to feminine because it doesn't need a lot of work at all. Steer clear of any surgeon who says differently. If you go to a good surgeon who respects the entire face as he works, and upper lip lift doesn't seem to be indicated here, but I'll need a full frontal relaxed-open mouthed photo to say for certain. Also, an upper lip lift may be needed after a rhinoplasty. My upper lip was beautiful, full, and upturned before my rhinoplasty. Luckily I'm having the earlier work fixed soon. If the surgeon doesn't recognize that the nose supports the upper lip you may have a less pleasing upper lip distance afterwards. Also, I am of the belief that it's better to get an upper lip lift separately at a later stage when your nose has healed, so you don't get that distorted translike nostril look so many are rocking.
Your malar cheekbones are rocking, but the submalar could be fuller. I'll leave it up to you if you like prominent cheek apples (think Angelina Jolie and Mery Streep) - I for one think it's beautiful. Angelina has gorgeous malar and submalar cheekbones actually. I'm not sure if you only divide the parts if you're talking about getting an implant there but whatever.
I've already addressed your jaw and chin, and what I said remains: reduce the height, and make the line from the mandibulsr angle to the tip of the chin a straight line - that banana face contouring, where your mandible starts at your earlobe that some American surgeons like is unattractive and weird looking.
Also, on a personal note, if you're going to spend all that money, I'll just say I don't think Dr Speigel is a good surgeon, certainly not worth the money he costs. All of his before and afters look either masculine or weird afterwards, Gigi Gorgeous still looks masculine and her chin is still male like tall etc. I've only seen one good result from him, but she could honestly have had the same if not better elsewhere, just my personal opinion. Obviously he's gonna have good results out there, I just haven't seen them and I don't think his aesthetic is nice.mbut if you like him, obviously power to you!
QuoteAlso, on a personal note, if you're going to spend all that money, I'll just say I don't think Dr Speigel is a good surgeon, certainly not worth the money he costs.
Really? You're the first person I've heard say bad things about his works. Seems like everyone runs to him to get botched procedures fixed. I get the expensive thing, but I expected that from him.
My concern with him so far was that he was really flaky on his suggestions. I know surgeons try not to be pushy selling their services, but coming out of the consultation I felt like I didn't get any concrete recommendations from him at all.
I haven't decided on a surgeon yet anyway. I still have 2 consults coming up and those might change my mind. Would you recommend anyone else outside of Facial Team?
I think Spiegel is quite OK surgeon... he just listens to patients a little too much. And patients often don't exactly know what they want. Facial team undersells procedures, and they do it regularly. They will recommend less than you really need in order to make you feel good, and give you the feeling that they are not trying to sell you too many procedures. But they will list them as an extra on the quote and let you decide. So its the same as with Spiegel, you will have to decide on your own, but they will try to make you feel like you dont need much.
http://content.screencast.com/users/ma5642/folders/Jing/media/482acbfe-8921-49a8-a8c3-f1df07c3ddd7/yopaX5T2.jpg
http://content.screencast.com/users/ma5642/folders/Jing/media/f56011e8-7988-4c70-9746-3ca4f307fff3/yopaX5T.jpg
Just a quick 10min photoshop..
I think you will have a really good result with any of these surgeons, including Spiegel, Facial team... You should study their aesthetic sense.. and try to imagine how it would work with your face.
@Lagertha: Oh I definitely got that vibe from Dr. Spiegel. I really wish he were a bit more pushy.
Quote from: Lagertha on December 08, 2015, 03:36:57 PMhttp://content.screencast.com/users/ma5642/folders/Jing/media/482acbfe-8921-49a8-a8c3-f1df07c3ddd7/yopaX5T2.jpg
http://content.screencast.com/users/ma5642/folders/Jing/media/f56011e8-7988-4c70-9746-3ca4f307fff3/yopaX5T.jpg
Just a quick 10min photoshop..
Oh thanks! Appreciate the effort. Are you secretly Alexandria? >_>. That is almost the EXACT photo I got back from her VFFS. Take a look. Anyway, I actually like your nose better!
http://i.imgur.com/6jA3idm.jpg
I'm only going to consider type 3 forehead reconstruction, so no Zukowski. I haven't had x-rays done yet, so I don't know how thick my frontal sinus walls are but from what I've seen, type 3 results just look better compared to shaving even for people with small sinus cavities so I'll just go avoid surgeons that don't do that procedure. I got a suggestion for Dr. Deschamps-Braly from someone so I'll look into him too.
Thanks for all the suggestions! They are a HUGE help and I'll keep 'em in mind for my next consults.
Like I said, my opinion of Spiegel is just that - my opinion. I had a consultation with him and was so under impressed. He literally said "I honestly can't tell what I can do for you". That combined with his, in my opinion, subpar results was enough. I just think the patients go in looking male and come out looking like transwomen. Which they are. But you know what I mean.
I like Suporn (for forehead, can't say about the rest)
Dr Van Der Dussen (he has a very un-American i.e. natural sense of aesthetics so he might not be for everyone and he'll tell you exactly what you need)
Dr O because I believe his approach to FFS (you'll most likely benefit from having more done than you want to admit to yourself) to be true.
Because Deschamps-Braly trained under Dr O I would let him operate me.
The rest of the American surgeons I wouldn't even consider as I just don't think they're good on average. Sure they have good results, I just don't think it's consistent.
I never looked into South American surgeons because being European it's excessive to go there, and if I was going to travel to the Americas it would be to have surgery with dr O, and why would I do that when dr Van Der Dussen is right here? If I were to have it with anyone there, the only one I would even consider would be DiMaggio.
Facial team have aesthetics so far removed from what I like that I didn't even consider them - they weren't a good match for me.
Dr Van De Ven is too "american" in his ffs approach for me. Too much tightening and fillers, not enough aesthetically impressive bone work (although quite aggressive compared to some, like Spiegel).
This is just MY opinion based on what I find attractive. I'm sure others disagree, have had surgeries with some of these doctors and are very happy etc, and power to you! Your money,my our opinions, your result, your happiness, and I am happy for you. We all like different things!
Oh lord, Lagertha's 10 minute Photoshop is just as good if not better! You could put her out off business!
Lol... funny thing... She made you the "dr. DiMaggio or dr. Ousterhout look" with the nose and forehead transition, and I made you "Facial Team look", which is really what SHE was supposed to make :)
Nose is one of the things you should really think into details. If you know at least a little how to play with photoshop, it will be immense help for you with choosing the right nose, and compare between many variations. It really should be something a patient should decide together with surgeon, instead of just letting surgeon do what they want.
Quote from: BellaSwan on December 08, 2015, 04:40:53 PM
Oh lord, Lagertha's 10 minute Photoshop is just as good if not better! You could put her out off business!
She's safe for now :) I dont have 10% of photoshop skills the she has. But I like to play a little when I see an interesting face like Nevara's, and imagine the result she will have.
If I would have to name other surgeons you should look at: (in no particular order)
- Di Maggio
- Ousterhout & Deschamps Braly
- Suporn
- Van der Dussen
The VFFS forehead looks very similar to mine, only mine is more curved and I have much less orbital rim. Amazing what she can do though!
I have seen Dr Rossi's work on other people besides myself. It does not hurt to have a consult with other surgeons, most will do it for free via email and Skype.
In Sept I met 2 people from the UK having FFS procedures done by Dr Rossi, even with the added airfare, the cost of Dr Rossi is very competitive to .eu surgeons.
Lodging / incidentals are incredibly low due to the exchange rate. I stayed in a nice apt in Buenos Aires, USD$600 for an entire month.
???Is it dr Rossi who doesn't do type 3?
Quote from: BellaSwan on December 08, 2015, 05:29:53 PM
???Is it dr Rossi who doesn't do type 3?
hmmm, guess you haven't read any of the Dr Rossi threads. He does very aggressive Type III procedures. take a look at the pre and post profile xrays I posted (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,196400.msg1754616.html#msg1754616).
Quote from: Lagertha on December 08, 2015, 03:36:57 PM
http://content.screencast.com/users/ma5642/folders/Jing/media/482acbfe-8921-49a8-a8c3-f1df07c3ddd7/yopaX5T2.jpg
http://content.screencast.com/users/ma5642/folders/Jing/media/f56011e8-7988-4c70-9746-3ca4f307fff3/yopaX5T.jpg
Just a quick 10min photoshop..
I think you will have a really good result with any of these surgeons, including Spiegel, Facial team... You should study their aesthetic sense.. and try to imagine how it would work with your face.
Like the morphs. You show the hairline at the side advanced (a lot) -? or transplants ?
Do you agree that it requires a type III forehead - - in order to re work the radix and bridge of the nose ?
Quote from: deeiche on December 08, 2015, 06:50:26 PM
hmmm, guess you haven't read any of the Dr Rossi threads. He does very aggressive Type III procedures. take a look at the pre and post profile xrays I posted (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,196400.msg1754616.html#msg1754616).
Yup, pretty darn aggressive if you ask me. But don't take my word for it. Here is a 3 month before and after side profile comparison and a new 6 month post with hair transplant growing in. Got my surgery June 3rd. Rhinoplasty and chin were very aggressive:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.postimg.org%2Fjwc3rnllx%2FProfile_Ruby_3_months.jpg&hash=fe84fa1a0b17b78b63962bff86beae7e8307ebad) (http://postimg.org/image/jwc3rnllx/)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs12.postimg.org%2Fymtqdxpvd%2FDSC01560.jpg&hash=dfd9e7ba3a681070d66e442d25bf5f08e72f7044) (http://postimg.org/image/ymtqdxpvd/)
There's no reason why Dr. Rossi shouldn't be up there with some of the best surgeons. And if the prices are the same, he's by far the best price as well (not to say price should be the ultimate determining factor). Full ffs with hair transplants. Transplant prices were amazing as well, under $2000 for 1400 grafts.
If you want to Skype with Dr. Rossi, he'll do it. He's genuinely humble and kind. And Amanda is wonderful. She's never missed replying to a single email of mine, not one. Buenos Aires is a welcoming city. It was like a vacation in a way, even if it was probably the most painful vacation I'll ever have (well worth it) ;)
Nevara, whoever you choose for your ffs, you'll look great and be happier. I'm so happy that you're taking this step.
- Ruby
Quote from: myfairlady49 on December 08, 2015, 07:51:34 PM
Like the morphs. You show the hairline at the side advanced (a lot) -? or transplants ?
Do you agree that it requires a type III forehead - - in order to re work the radix and bridge of the nose ?
I advanced hairline a bit too much... I didnt really pay attention enough. Definitely should be more in the range like Alexandra showed.
I think type3 is more or less necessary. Unless if she is one of the few percent who have really small sinus, and very thick frontal sinus wall.. her forehead isnt that problematic in the middle, as it is on the sides, directly above orbital ridges (see the lightning on side profile pic).
Quote from: RubyAliza on December 08, 2015, 11:01:06 PM
There's no reason why Dr. Rossi shouldn't be up there with some of the best surgeons. And if the prices are the same, he's by far the best price as well (not to say price should be the ultimate determining factor).
Please dont take this personally. From the results I have had a chance to see on the internet, either on their website, or forums like this, or yahoo group, I so far wasnt really impressed. It is clear that he is more than competent to do aggressive bone work, but there wasnt any result so far that would make me say "wow". Im not saying that there arent such results. The sample of results that can be found online is still very small. I dont think its fair to judge a surgeon on a such small sample. I would definitely recommend a patient who is interested, to have a consultation, so she would be able to see many more results.
Maybe its only my personal taste. I definitely dont try to make claims for anybody else.
You definitely have a right to your opinion, even though I disagree with it. :)
Regarding the Yahoo group, there was a fairly recent post there from an individual who posted heavily regarding her experience on her tumblr site. I think her change is quite dramatic, along with the results RubyAliza posted.
I remember when Dr DiMaggio first starting FFS, there were similar statements regarding his capability. Along with people voicing concerns about going to South America for surgery.
If you wonder why I don't post before and after pictures. I transitioned > 30 years ago and have been "stealth" since then. Once you put a picture out on the Internet it is there forever. However I thought putting my pre/post profile xrays might be of value to others, so after removing all metadata embedded in the JPEG I made them available.
Quote from: Lagertha on December 09, 2015, 05:11:01 AM
Please dont take this personally. From the results I have had a chance to see on the internet, either on their website, or forums like this, or yahoo group, I so far wasnt really impressed. It is clear that he is more than competent to do aggressive bone work, but there wasnt any result so far that would make me say "wow". Im not saying that there arent such results. The sample of results that can be found online is still very small. I dont think its fair to judge a surgeon on a such small sample. I would definitely recommend a patient who is interested, to have a consultation, so she would be able to see many more results.
Maybe its only my personal taste. I definitely dont try to make claims for anybody else.
Quote from: Lagertha on December 08, 2015, 03:36:57 PM
I think Spiegel is quite OK surgeon... he just listens to patients a little too much. And patients often don't exactly know what they want. Facial team undersells procedures, and they do it regularly. They will recommend less than you really need in order to make you feel good, and give you the feeling that they are not trying to sell you too many procedures. But they will list them as an extra on the quote and let you decide. So its the same as with Spiegel, you will have to decide on your own, but they will try to make you feel like you dont need much.
http://content.screencast.com/users/ma5642/folders/Jing/media/482acbfe-8921-49a8-a8c3-f1df07c3ddd7/yopaX5T2.jpg
http://content.screencast.com/users/ma5642/folders/Jing/media/f56011e8-7988-4c70-9746-3ca4f307fff3/yopaX5T.jpg
Just a quick 10min photoshop..
I think you will have a really good result with any of these surgeons, including Spiegel, Facial team... You should study their aesthetic sense.. and try to imagine how it would work with your face.
Wow Lagertha you've done it again! haha. Need you to do me next lol
Quote from: Lagertha on December 09, 2015, 05:11:01 AM
Please dont take this personally. From the results I have had a chance to see on the internet, either on their website, or forums like this, or yahoo group, I so far wasnt really impressed. It is clear that he is more than competent to do aggressive bone work, but there wasnt any result so far that would make me say "wow". Im not saying that there arent such results. The sample of results that can be found online is still very small. I dont think its fair to judge a surgeon on a such small sample. I would definitely recommend a patient who is interested, to have a consultation, so she would be able to see many more results.
Maybe its only my personal taste. I definitely don't try to make claims for anybody else.
I have the right to my opinion that Dr. Rossi did as good a job, at least in my case, as any other surgeon could do. I'm here, posting on my own free will, willing to be public about this, and I hope that someone out there will appreciate the time I put into this. I know other patients of his who'd rather not be public and I understand even more now why they don't after reading your post. Dr. Rossi is a great surgeon and I'm proud of his work. He's also an amazing person. I may not be "beautiful" by the idealist standards of others, especially of anonymous people on the internet, but I'm pretty darn happy with the results. Not everyone has the money to go to really expensive doctors with the most "impressive" looking patients, whatever that means (define impressive). For me, it was affordable, safe, aggressive, and life-changing :) And all the people in my life that I do real face to face interactions with, seem to think my ffs was successful. Don't take this personally, but they're the ones I really care about.
Also, I'd rather not use the words "impressive" when referring to someone else's body. It's highly subjective and could be taken as demeaning. It's not respectful, especially to the trans women who aren't so called "impressive" - like myself, at least according to you. That's all I have to say about that, this is Nevara's thread. I mainly posted my pictures to correct a statement someone said that Dr. Rossi does not do type 3. Make no mistake, he does type 3. That's not just a claim I'm making for anybody else, that's a factual statement. Deeiche's photos are undeniable evidence of that (Thanks deeiche!).
Sorry for sidetracking your thread Nevara. Thanks for posting your pics. Much support for you in whatever decision you make :)
- Ruby