I am so nervous, in a few days I have my voice surgery with Dr. Haben. Altough I booked the triple I may be opt for the glottoplsty. My very comfortable speaking range is 150Hz to 200Hz. Maybe glottoplasty boosts this comfortabke range to the female range of 180Hz and up.
I fly backhome at Dec, 23th. I hope I can say some words to my twins on x-mas.
If you natural voice works at 150 Hz, I don't think you will need a triple. You should be able to get a 60 Hz boost which would put you up to 210Hz which is in the feminine range. You might even get a bit more out of it.
As for speaking at xmas, don't plan on it. I just started speaking at a little over 2 weeks and some went longer before they could speak. On the other hand, some could speak at 8 days. It depends on how lucky you are.
Be careful about christmas and new years! Those are events that can challenge your voice a lot, especially if kids, friends, pets and family is involved. This makes it very challenging to keep absolutely silent for that time or even to restrict yourself to y few sentences a day... A friend of mine got herself into a situation where she had to shout during those days and that was also only shortly after a glottoplasty - you definitely want to make sure that there is no chance of this happening...
Congrats and best of luck!
Quote from: Dena on December 09, 2015, 08:14:10 AM
If you natural voice works at 150 Hz, I don't think you will need a triple. You should be able to get a 60 Hz boost which would put you up to 210Hz which is in the feminine range. You might even get a bit more out of it.
As for speaking at xmas, don't plan on it. I just started speaking at a little over 2 weeks and some went longer before they could speak. On the other hand, some could speak at 8 days. It depends on how lucky you are.
It would be great to get a 60Hz boost for the comfortable range. I can speak in the range of 200Hz to 250Hz but it takes some effort and my prosody is munch worser than.
My Christmas wish is to be able to use my new voice than. I will try to heal fast with good nutrition and some careful walking as I did after my previous surgeries.
I am so nervous waking up after surgery without voice. I hope the nurse will help me. I am alone there.
Lara:
Best wishes to you on your surgery. Listen carefully during your pre-op consult and go from there. Not sure where you are coming here from but do keep in mind it IS THE cold and fly season and be extremely careful to always wash your hands before touching your face. A simple thing to over look. Day 2 recovery for myself of 7 we need to spend in the area... I had the triple and originally was at 160 htz daily speaking voice to start FWIW...
Be safe
Elaine
Hi Lara,
I had not intended on posting until after surgery but I see you are scheduled on the 16th same as me and I am here in Rochester.
Feel free to get back to me if you need any help or just want to grab a coffee?
I also have a car with me and a Friend to help post op.
Jamie
Lara and Jamie-
Best wishes for surgery for both of you!
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So I just had surgery and I am back in my room. People are all very kind. Overall I feel good. But I had the feeling when swallowing something. That is an experience I do not to have a second time in my life. I hope it will fast getting better.
I ate something soft and swallowing a pills works.
Not being able to talk really consumes time for a conversation. The erasable "chalk" board from my kids just helps a lot.
Dr. Haben said one week voice and four weeks of minimum talking. I am looking forward seeing him tomorrow.
Glad everything is going well. Best of luck with recovery!
I wasn't sure I could get an erasable chalk board through airport security so I used paper and pen. My conversations are immortalized on paper for the future to see. It's kind of fun flipping through the pages and remembering the conversation that caused me to write what I wrote.
It will take a few days for the swallowing to get better but I hope your recovery is speedy.
Thanks I am okay. I just hgpave to cough and that is a huge concern. I usually do not have problems with healing, it may help that I eat a healthy diet and during these says I eat a lot.
But CTA and Glottoplastic is definitely a new experience. Not able to talk is not an issue for me as thought before. With a chalk board, paper, my small cards and a Text to speech engine it is easy to communicator. And a smile always helps 😁 The anaesthetist surpringly spoke well German.
I now stay in the Hampton near the Marriott. Which is nice but much cheaper.
Two tricks for reducing coughing. The first is to lean forward and exhale fast with your vocal cords open to blow the accumulation out of your throat. It isn't as good as a cough but it can greatly reduce the desire to cough.
The second is keep ice water with a soda straw in it. At regular intervals take a small sip, warm it in your mouth for a few seconds and then swallow. Doing this often reduces the need to cough and the discomfort. You will find yourself going to the bathroom often if you are doing this often enough.
If you need the cough medicine, use it. If you find you are running out, Dr Haben can provide a refill but it's very powerful so make sure you don't take more than the recommend amount.
I didn't need the cough medicine but other people do so do what you feel is best.
Good luck on the healing then Lara - its interesting that now people from here in Germany also go to Dr Haben, up to now I only know of a very few going outside Germany at all and so far it was about 4 or 5 to Yeson and one considered going to Remarcle.
But Of course Dr Haben is the only one offering the double procedure of CTA plus Glottoplasty, so if that is what you need and want, there are little other choices yet, I guess?
I thought about ging to Dr. Kim or Dr. Remarcle too. I heard some impressive results from Dr. Kim. But I decided to go for Dr. Haben because my natural voice voice was very low and I want to be in the female range. My trained voice was not too bad but as a Managing Director of a company a have to speak alot. And I still had issues with my voice and not all countries are so transgender friendly as the Germany.
And maybe the surgery is covered by the public health insurance. For Dr. Kim it would not be possible.
Quote from: Lara1969 on December 18, 2015, 06:19:56 AM
I decided to go for Dr. Haben because my natural voice voice was very low and I want to be in the female range.
I understand. Yes, getting CTA in addition to glottoplasty probably ensures that the pitch increase will be enough.
QuoteI still had issues with my voice and not all countries are so transgender friendly as the Germany.
Sadly not, thats true. Germany is ok, although even here one can get into troubles. And also I would not always want to be "out" and depend on the tolerance and acceptance of everyone around in daily life.
QuoteAnd maybe the surgery is covered by the public health insurance. For Dr. Kim it would not be possible.
Really??? How does that work? The USA is outside the EU just as Korea is. I was told that the best bet to get it covered is to do the surgery in Germany, there is some chance of getting it paid for if it is done in Europe, which would have to be Prof Remarcle, and very little chance to get it paid if it is done outside the EU - how do you think you can convince your insurance to pay for it? I am still trying to get my surgery covered, but its quite a struggle because they say it was done in Korea, which is not Germany and not even Europe, so they deny coverage.
Quote from: anjaq on December 18, 2015, 07:13:26 AM
..., there is some chance of getting it paid for if it is done in Europe, which would have to be Prof Remarcle, and very little chance to get it paid if it is done outside the EU - how do you think you can convince your insurance to pay for it? I am still trying to get my surgery covered, but its quite a struggle because they say it was done in Korea, which is not Germany and not even Europe, so they deny coverage.
Yes maybe I get it back. The point is that his combination of CTA and Glottoplastic is unique. The medical service of the insurance recommended my surgery but of course I should have made this in Germany. They are currently not fully convinced that I needed the double. If they are convinced the insurance has to take over the costs for this surgery. I get support from my ENT which worked for Prof. Nawka and my speech therapist Thomas Lascheit which is also very experienced in transgender issues.
But it is likely that I have to go to court like for my FFS and beard epilation or the import of the Estradiol injections.
I feel much better, swallowing is mich easier than yesterday. I love it to pass after just putting some cloths with any make-up. I hope my voice will pass in future also as good.
Drove to a outlet mall for shopping. One woman thought I was a female singer and therefore I had the surgery. Bought a lot for my twins at home.
I have the feeling drinking tea helps. I only in deep fears because of my coughs yesterday. Today it is much better.
My neck looks much smaller than before. Dr. Haben said he shaved a good part of the Adams apple even if it was not so prominent before the CTA. But after CTA it became more prominent before shaving. Now my neck looks much more feminine than before.
I hope only these coughs did not any damage....I am sure the result is usually great.
There will be some mistake so don't worry about them. The important thing is you want to avoid coughing fits. I even mistakenly said a few words when I shouldn't have but it didn't do any damage. Just control all you can and don't worry about the rest.
My stitches came out today, sugery was six days before . This is how it looks:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F119mg41.jpg&hash=763790a6b23560891fddf7672ebccb87e482453b)
Healing is good, the web already formed. That is what he said. I will try to rest my voice till beginning of next year. Three weeks later I will see my ENT. He measured my range and fundamental frequencies before and is interested to see it will change.
I am so happy! I can also resume nmy training in a few days. One week without any sports is hard for me.
Overall it bis nearly a pain free surgery. The day after I felt discomfort because of the swelling but I currently I feel is very seldom. Until now he and the staff were very friendly and answered all questions I had. Also the staff in the hospital were very kind.
I have the feeling that drinking warm tea helps alot with swelling. I prefer camomille and grean tea. He did not recommend avoiding juice to me. I asked him If I can continue drinking orange juice in the morning and evening.
I am allowed to do sports this week, especially jogging and training in a gym. I love sports but I am not sure if it is really helpful for recovery to start early. I know that after surgery is helps to get up early and I never stopped for a longer except after GRS which took me out for six weeks.
Lara:
Glad to hear you are mending well and it looks like the swelling has subsided quite well for you already. Today is the 2 week mark for me, I can really relate to what you write .
I know the feeling about not being able to exercise. The urge is strong but, it will have to wait for a while to get back into cycling and floor work another month and a half.
Be safe and hope you have a nice holiday season.
Elaine
That sounds all pretty good. It will be interesting to see what your ENTs and voice therapists in Germany will say :)
It was kind of funny this week. My voice therapist told me that she was talking to a voice specialist in a clinic here about this topic and that doctor was telling her how much she disliked this sort of surgery - glottoplasty - because it is so bad for the patients. She was telling her then that she has to say that it depends on the surgeon and the patients dedication to get a good voice and she experienced with me that the surgery can be a very good success :D 8)
I know, most speech therapists and ENT vote against such a surgery. They are not completely wrong. If you have surgery here your voice is broken in almost all cases. The good voices still sound thin and hoarse. The worser ones sound still male.
I am still resting my voice, I plan to do a complete voice rest of 2,5 weeks. But than I have to go back to work. But ge said four weeks voice rest will help revover faster but one week is enough and I will not damage the result even when coughing. I have two toddlers and it is nearly impossible to stay two weeks without cold. They are bringing back every possible cold virus from Kindergarden which exist on this planet. I will resume sports this week.
I will record my voice than.
Quote from: Lara1969 on December 24, 2015, 07:08:47 PM
I know, most speech therapists and ENT vote against such a surgery. They are not completely wrong. If you have surgery here your voice is broken in almost all cases. The good voices still sound thin and hoarse. The worser ones sound still male.
Sadly that seems to be true. It is incerdibly hard to get voice samples here, I can only assume that people are either unhappy about it and do not want others to hear it, or there are some good ones who just want to be left alone and be stealth? I heard one good result lately and about 3 or 4 bad ones. So there seem to be a few good ones around in Germany as well, but it seems to be a gamble. I know that some are not happy with Dr Haben or Dr Kim either, but the chance/risk ratio seems to be reversed, compared to Germany.
So after two weeks the scar is okay:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2Fxpt1d1.jpg&hash=e2de4865f44b9be86cebbd9d62e9a5aa0a1d9e14)
My voice is not okay. Very thin, raspy voice. I felt that I have to speak different. It seems to me the "triple" changed a lot. With adapting the way I speak I am able to get something out every time I need my voice (my twins are 1,5yr old and I definitly need my voice!). I am still very quit and my pitch is very high. I did not made a measurement. I think it does not make any sense before I hit the four weeks mark. I know that I am not able to bring out any low noises. That is a result which I always wanted.
I have to return to work tomorrow. I still want to use my voice on rare occassions. My secretary has to speak for me ;D
I did not contacted Dr. Haben. End of January I have an appointment with my ENT. Then I will see where I am standing regarding my voice. Currently I am not nervous. I know that my healing was good, I do not smoke nor drink alcohol. I drink a lot of hot camomille tea which always helps in short term. And I resumed sports. As far as I can say without side effects. So I have to wait, resume speech therapie and start Lax Vox again.
My only concern is my date next week. I hope I can at least say somethink, he is an interesting man. :-\
This is my voice 4 weeks post op in the evening after speaking like on a normal day:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s18DOkc1Caff
It is what I exspected but I hoped to be further in my development.
My scar is hard to see. I think it will look nice in half an year.
Sounds better than mine at 4 months! There's still a lot of hoarseness, hopefully that I will diminish for you over the next few months.
I started with Lax Vox which helped. I spoke a lot today and it worked. Had a wonderful date with a fantastic man. ;D ;D ;D
What is Lax Vox? I've never heard of this. Can it permanently get rid of hoarseness, or is this a temporary fix?
Quote from: Lara1969 on January 13, 2016, 05:15:26 PM
I started with Lax Vox which helped. I spoke a lot today and it worked. Had a wonderful date with a fantastic man. ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Lara1969 on December 24, 2015, 07:08:47 PM
I know, most speech therapists and ENT vote against such a surgery. They are not completely wrong. If you have surgery here your voice is broken in almost all cases. The good voices still sound thin and hoarse. The worser ones sound still male.
You mean in Germany or in general?
Here is the English website about lax vox:
http://www.laxvox.com/eng/index.html
It definitly helps against hoarseness. I strongly recommend it for everyone based on my personal experience.
Quote from: iKate on January 13, 2016, 07:57:48 PM
You mean in Germany or in general?
Yes I mean in Germany.
I would say not only in Germany but this applies to most other countries as well, but there are a few exceptional surgeons who can do it - they happen to be not in Germany, but that does not imply the reverse - that is only german voice surgeons who produce bad results ;)
Quote from: Lara1969 on January 13, 2016, 03:23:14 PM
This is my voice 4 weeks post op in the evening after speaking like on a normal day:
Wow, thats still pretty damaged. Are you sure it is a good idea to already talk like on a normal day? I would rather rest the voice more and try to let it heal more, I guess...
I followed the 4 week total voice rest rule of Dr Kim and after 4 weeks I was already doing rather ok
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1CcMqIrsS6l
although of course that meant not to use the voice for more than a few sentences a day at first. It seems to make sense to me though to be gentle with the voice at first...
P.S.: The recoring is kind of funny because its literally on the first day of speaking again and I had not yet regained control over my pitch again and so it was all over the place - LOL
Quote from: Lara1969 on January 14, 2016, 12:11:48 AM
Yes I mean in Germany.
I agree with you and Anja on this because I know someone who had voice surgery in NYC and she completely lost her voice. She is basically almost all air now. She doesn't get called sir but she can't really talk all that much. I don't know what procedure she had but she was warning me about voice surgery.
This is why I didn't just go to any surgeon. One with proven results was important to me.
Yes - I heard some voices from surgeons in Germany and some of them were incredibly hoarse and breathy, others too high pitched or lacking modulation (probably CTA method). Someone in Austria had a VFS and Botox and could not speak at all for over a year - basically she thought she has lost her voice , but then apparently some of it came back eventually.
Horror stories... so wherever you go, be sure the surgeon is top notch in this area - the surgery is in principle easy to be done, but in reality it takes more than to just stitch up the vocal folds and cross your fingers...
The experience of the surgeon is extremly important. And there are only few surgeons which do have lot of experience. The technique plays also an important role. I think Dr. Kim and Dr. Haben both use an advanced method in detail.
My focal folds look great said my ENT doc. It is just swollen alot. Maybe his surgery technique causes the excessive swelling. Speaking should not cause any damage now. It is still interesting to explore my new voice. Now I am at approx 180Hz when speaking in low pitch. That is really amazing. I cannot go much deeper now. But I can comfortable speak at 250Hz or higher. My upper limit is above 450 or 500Hz, I am not sure. And the break between chest and head voice is gone.
I think the CTA eliminates the break of registers because it basically turns off one of the two muscles doing the voice and the point where those muscles basically fight for control over the voice is where the voice break occurs. So in a way thats a benefit of the CTA technique, I believe.
Yes but CTA alone will not feminize your voice enough. And the disadvantage is that a decent amount of your range is cut away. I had a range of three octaves and now maybe 2 or 1,5 are remaining. We have to test it yet.
Quote from: Lara1969 on January 16, 2016, 01:24:35 PM
Yes but CTA alone will not feminize your voice enough. And the disadvantage is that a decent amount of your range is cut away. I had a range of three octaves and now maybe 2 or 1,5 are remaining. We have to test it yet.
Yes, thats part of why I disliked the CTA method. I seem to have 2.5 or 3 octaves range now. I just measured and in that it was even about 4 octaves, but that included definitely some part of the whistle register. Before the surgery it was at about 3-3.5, depending on the day. So also with glottoplasty alone of course there is some loss because the lower end is gone and the register changes are not changed in position, so my range below the voice break to head voice is less, and whatever i may have gained at the top is in the whistle register which is not useable for much...
The reason I didn't opt for cta is the scar on the neck. In my opinion, it's a dead giveaway for being trans. Had we been in the 1950's then yes, no ne would know about Adam's Apple surgery. These days, it's all over the news and tv programmes! My friend who is cis ( very feminine even for a cis) has a scar on the neck. She was once asked by a guy if her scar was the result of a adam's apple surgery!!!!
Anyway, the other reason I opted for vocal chords shortening is that my preop average comfortable pitch was already at 170 hz so I definitely didn't need CTA.
Quote from: Ritana on January 18, 2016, 10:24:13 PM
My friend who is cis ( very feminine even for a cis) has a scar on the neck. She was once asked by a guy if her scar was the result of a adam's apple surgery!!!!
OMG! Its come that far already. Scary. Thats the dark side of "more trans awareness"...
"the dark side of trans awarness" you.made me giggle, Anja!
Don't go to the dark side!!!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F36.media.tumblr.com%2Fb37a7bf6fe089980ceef1ead3d283fb8%2Ftumblr_n7a4dwU9mJ1qmr7rho1_500.jpg&hash=55304ad5b44e8e6e4cfeaae247dbdc809e5d6218)
Omg. What's that?
So here is my six weejs update:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1AYN0knOwVM
I had a serious cold, lots of coughing in the weeks after surgery. But I am quiet happy with the current result. I only had two weeks voice rest and the sample above is taken after normal talking.
I am doing the exercises given from my speech therapist on a daily base.
The scar is still visible but develops fine. I am pretty sure it will be nearly invisible in a few months.
Still horse but you sound female.
Still very rough but that's to be expected at this point in time. The voice sounds feminine and contains a reasonable amount of inflection. I think it will only get better with time.
Hoarse but I hear a good voice below it.
Thanks I am looking forward having a feminine voice without need to think about how I sound. I am so happy. I gained so much freedom!
How much pitch increase have you gained so far (although it's still early for final results)?
I gained approx. 100Hz but it is hard so say yet. I am now comfortable to speak in the range of 190-260Hz.
Here is my sound sample from today after a normal working day:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1aAy0QuadqE
I am happy ;D
My voice develops well. I currently have a cold again from my small twins but my voice is now very stable seven weeks post-op. I got a nice special massage from mmy speech therapist today which helps to relax my breathing and speaking. I am very sure that my vocal coords are still swollen although I did not had the time to visit my ENT and make a picture of them.
I love the work of Dr. Haben. It means so much freedom now after surgery not to have to think about my voice while speaking.
Quote from: Lara1969 on February 10, 2016, 02:55:45 PM
Here is my sound sample from today after a normal working day:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1aAy0QuadqE
I am happy ;D
My voice develops well. I currently have a cold again from my small twins but my voice is now very stable seven weeks post-op. I got a nice special massage from mmy speech therapist today which helps to relax my breathing and speaking. I am very sure that my vocal coords are still swollen although I did not had the time to visit my ENT and make a picture of them.
I love the work of Dr. Haben. It means so much freedom now after surgery not to have to think about my voice while speaking.
Hi Lara,
This is a massive improvement over your previous audio where you sounded a bit hoarse. I'm glad to see (or hear in this case) the success of Dr. Haben's work. Hope everything works out this well for me in my second time around with him.
Quote from: GeekGirl on February 11, 2016, 06:23:10 AM
Hi Lara,
This is a massive improvement over your previous audio where you sounded a bit hoarse. I'm glad to see (or hear in this case) the success of Dr. Haben's work. Hope everything works out this well for me in my second time around with him.
I wish you all the best. I like his current work and outcome.
That's a big improvement from your last recording! The hoarseness is almost gone it seems.
I was chatting for weeks with a nice guy. Today we had our first phone call and I recieved a wedding proposal. He said my voice is sounding so nice, feminine and sweet that he wants to marry me :-)
I said maybe if we know each other better but of course I am unbelievable happy! I also had another phone call and tomorrow we will have our first. He also loves my voice.
So the surgery makes dating guys alot more easier. I sound different, nicer, more feminine. I could speak with the same pitch before but my voice did not sounded nice and sweet.
Quote from: Lara1969 on February 17, 2016, 02:46:17 PM
I was chatting for weeks with a nice guy. Today we had our first phone call and I recieved a wedding proposal. He said my voice is sounding so nice, feminine and sweet that he wants to marry me :-)
I said maybe if we know each other better but of course I am unbelievable happy! I also had another phone call and tomorrow we will have our first. He also loves my voice.
So the surgery makes dating guys alot more easier. I sound different, nicer, more feminine. I could speak with the same pitch before but my voice did not sounded nice and sweet.
That's pretty awesome :)
I've always relied on my appearance to more than make up for my voice, but now that I'm older, I just want to get that final piece of the puzzle fixed.
I am a firm believer in the fact that vfs is not only about pitch. It also changes the timber making it more feminine.