Just playing Devil's Advocate, but they are all doctors, being paid good money to do the best they can. What is the difference between an okay surgeon and a really good one ?. Could an ok one, such as those in the UK be 'good enough?'.
Thanks
S :)
A good one won't sell you procedures just "because they can".
If you're in the UK take the Eurostar and have surgery with Dr Van Der Dussen. He's a cranio-maxillofacial and aesthetic surgeon with roughly 30 - 40 years of experience. He works in 3 different countries, is on the board of all kinds of facial bone and soft tissue related things in these countries. His experience and qualifications far outweigh those of any other FFS surgeon in the world. He's also an incredibly kind man. Don't settle for some mediocre UK surgeon.
Some surgeons are plastic surgeons who delve in bone work. Obviously, they're not comparable.
Yes he is very good but I know of two of his patients a few years back that went elsewhere to sort out his problems.
So he is not perfect either.
I agree there are no decent surgeons in the UK and the surgeon who did my corrective surgery in October 2014 at the Chelsea & Westminster Hospital in London although delightful proved not to be up to the job hence my going to Facial Team next April.
Of course not perfect, but we must also keep in mind patient expectations vs what's actually possible. Which complications were these?
And I was merely illustrating what differentiates a "really good" surgeon from an "OK" one ;) My point being experience is always a plus and if you're going in for bone surgery why not go with someone who's primary skill is bone?
But like Paula said, no matter who the surgeon was, complications can arise. Dr VdD does have a revision policy though, so if it's actual complications he will fix it for free.
My apologies but I should not have mentioned these in case the individuals concerned are members or otherwise (being an open forum for the whole world to see).
Best if they come on here and tell their stories.
Quote from: BellaSwan on December 11, 2015, 02:59:41 PM
Of course not perfect, but we must also keep in mind patient expectations vs what's actually possible. Which complications were these?
Agreed and have personally learnt from my own bitter experiences.
Quote from: BellaSwan on December 11, 2015, 03:01:38 PM
And I was merely illustrating what differentiates a "really good" surgeon from an "OK" one ;) My point being experience is always a plus and if you're going in for bone surgery why not go with someone who's primary skill is bone?
A closely related and really important is question is how do you tell who's better?
I'm sure there's big differences, its the nature of people that some are better than others, but can we tell who's who?
Some people interview their surgeons and go with who they are comfortable with. I personally don't like that because I'm not interested in their personality, and I don't feel capable of evaluating their answers properly.
I favor doing a lot of research, but that's kind of my strong point so I guess I would.
I think qualifications are important. I don't want someone who's manly a plastic surgeon to reset my forehead or cut bone off my jaw. I want someone who is specifically trained to do so, where the focus of his education has been that.
http://www.facialplasticsurgery.org.uk/procedures/facial-feminisation/results-of-facial-feminisation-surgery This guy seems to offer what I want and is the closest to home, but yet not many people in the UK go there.....
at one time he was one of only two surgeons in Europe. he has done lots of surgeries, join Yahoo FFS group if you want more info
Brian Musgrove.
I have seen quite a few of his post-op patients and their surgery results were very conservative
I am a member of that Yahoo Group but have always had 'server' problems, my posts never seemed to be answered and day's later I'd get an email 'not approved by moderator' or something, and they were totally ordinary posts, nothing untoward about them at all... I can only assume a technical problem.....
FFS Support is a total waste of time now since Yahoo wrecked all their groups with the "Neo" format.
Rebecca is the moderator and is very sad at all this because before the change, it was a thriving group.
No more though with a handful of posts each month ... :(
Susan's Place seems to be the only place to look for FFS information ... :)
Rebecca polled members about closing down FFS Support and asked people what they thought of her opening a Facebook page !!!!
Quote from: Periodicaly Dramatic on December 13, 2015, 12:28:19 AM
I am a member of that Yahoo Group but have always had 'server' problems, my posts never seemed to be answered and day's later I'd get an email 'not approved by moderator' or something, and they were totally ordinary posts, nothing untoward about them at all... I can only assume a technical problem.....
Quote from: Periodicaly Dramatic on December 13, 2015, 12:28:19 AM
I am a member of that Yahoo Group but have always had 'server' problems, my posts never seemed to be answered and day's later I'd get an email 'not approved by moderator' or something, and they were totally ordinary posts, nothing untoward about them at all... I can only assume a technical problem.....
were the posts specific to FFS? if they were then it sounds like Rebecca did not review them in time.
I've wondered how much time she spends on admin functions for the group any more. She started the "what to do with the group thread", but then never did a follow-up.
Yes they were to do with f.f.s., I ain't no troll....
To the original question, in the most objective criteria, I'd say their results and their qualifications.
Every doc you interview, make sure to ask for results pics. If you can't find any results you like, then why go to that doc?
Also others have pointed out in the forum that http://www.certificationmatters.org is a way of looking up the actual certifications a doctor has.
Outside of the objective matters, it's also important to have the subjective stuff too. I usually interview/consult a few different doctors before I do a procedure and I pick the one that not only seems the most qualified but also clicks well with me in general.
I think that Rebecca has simply lost interest in FFS Support like the rest of us.
Such a pity because it used to be great.
I think I'd prefer one who didn't make too many mistakes. Its really hard to find out though, as they don't tell you and at least for SRS I have a feeling most people don't want to say anything negative.
Hi I've not yet had a consult but I note that Brian Musgrove does not offer a nurse on call afterwards or any direct recovery facilities. Therefore I'm wondering how debilitated is one afterwards? Is it easy to do the basics for oneself? Is one usually in a lot of pain ? And is it easy to self administer medications ?
Thanks p ☺
Quote from: Periodicaly Dramatic on January 17, 2016, 08:13:42 AM
Hi I've not yet had a consult but I note that Brian Musgrove does not offer a nurse on call afterwards or any direct recovery facilities. Therefore I'm wondering how debilitated is one afterwards? Is it easy to do the basics for oneself? Is one usually in a lot of pain ? And is it easy to self administer medications ?
Thanks p ☺
There are postings with concise descriptions of people who went with other surgeons. You might look that up, they give exact hints on food, what to prepare, etc.
hugs
Quote from: Periodicaly Dramatic on January 17, 2016, 08:13:42 AM
Hi I've not yet had a consult but I note that Brian Musgrove does not offer a nurse on call afterwards or any direct recovery facilities. Therefore I'm wondering how debilitated is one afterwards? Is it easy to do the basics for oneself? Is one usually in a lot of pain ? And is it easy to self administer medications ?
Thanks p ☺
I had extensive age related soft tissue work along with FFS 4 months ago. Dr Javier Rossi was my surgeon, I stayed over night in hospital, then came back to the apartment. I was provided a cell phone to call t-change support person, Amanda, if I needed anything. She answers 24/7. I was very swollen, my eyes could barely open the first couple days, though I could see well enough around the apt. Surgery was on a Wed, I walked around the streets of Buenos Aires the following Monday.
How long does Brian Musgrove stay in hospital after surgery?
Thanks Deeiche,that's been very informative, hope you got results your happy with.
There's only a night or two in hospital with Brian musgrove . So the first few days could be rough. Thanks ☺
Quote from: Periodicaly Dramatic on January 17, 2016, 01:55:28 PM
Thanks Deeiche,that's been very informative, hope you got results your happy with.
I am very happy with my results. However time really does make a difference in seeing the results. I went back to work almost 5 weeks after surgery, I still had bruising and noticeable swelling at that point. However I pretty much had "the works" in soft tissue procedures. Four months on all the bruising is long gone, swelling is greatly diminished.
Quote from: Periodicaly Dramatic on January 17, 2016, 01:55:28 PM
There's only a night or two in hospital with Brian musgrove . So the first few days could be rough. Thanks ☺
Yep, the first couple days in the apt were pretty rough. However day to day improvements are amazing. Five days post-op I was walking all over the rejuvenated dock area.
I was 56 at the time of surgery.
Here is my surgery thread, Dr Rossi surgery Sept 16 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,196400.0.html).
I think the only way you can really separate the skill of surgeons is to understand their work. To do this, you would need:
- Foremost, to learn about the anatomy of the face. Dimorphism, proportions (typical vs. atypical), how everything is connected, what tends to be registered as attractive or unattractive (if you care about that sort of thing).
- Learn about the various procedures involved in the face, what they change, if there are multiple approaches, what their limitations can be, how these procedures might interact with one another, and how they heal.
- This last one doesn't necessarily tell us how skilled a surgeon is, but the more information you have available, the better an assessment you can make of a surgeon.
Surgeons who use a lot of marketing, include make-up in their photos or don't make an effort to match up before/after angles, seem to only show off their best results, have sparse results available (especially on request), and so on. This can be a sign that confidence in their work is lacking, especially if it is a very famous surgeon.
Similarly, a surgeon who is avoidant about discussing limitations is a concern, as it demonstrates that they may not feel in control of fully understanding their field. A poster above me said that she does not care about surgeon personalities, and I am inclined to agree (well, in a fashion - at least as far as their talent goes). However, you can pick up clues on a surgeon's expertise by monitoring how they respond to you.
In the case of Sterling-euro exchange rate, Brian Musgrove could work out expensive. How much does Jenny's nest cost,with Facial Team roughly? Ideally I'd like to get the job done,everything, including hair transplants,flights, for E20k,is that realistic? Marbella is expensive?.
Personally I would never touch a British cosmetic surgeon or FFS surgeon with a barge pole ever again.
I know from bitter experience ... :( and one or two of my British friends who have had to have their FFS done all over again. ( Not originally with Musgrove to be fair to him )
Musgroves work especially on older patients looks way too conservative in my opinion.
Marbella and Spain in general are dead cheap compared to "Rip Off UK" or indeed the USA.
I am renting a luxury studio apartment with Colour TV tuned in to the UK, fully equipped kitchen, shower, aircon, pool and bar in the grounds on Marbella's Golden Mile for £32.00 a night - Total £480 for 15 nights thru Trip Advisor. It's actually costing me £16.00 a night as I am sharing with my carer !!!!
The apartment is owned by a Brit who lives on site which is great as we have been chatting about any extras I might need such as an extra bed in case one of my USA friends decides to join us for a bit of April sun ... 8)
See post #5 for "Jenny's Nest" costs: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,201821.0.html